dxing
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Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:41 pm

Being in the minority means you have to come up with even more off the wall type of stuff to get mentioned. Like Comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen,,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tQDAOPp0zQ&amp

And what's this? National values?

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search...&fr2=tab-news&n=21&tnr=20&y=Search

Guess you have to do what you have to do to get in the news.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:53 pm

Nacy Pelosi: “Democrats Have Long Fought For Fiscal Responsibility”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWoQ...oP0I&feature=player_embedded#at=12

In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.
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cargolex
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:40 pm

Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.
 
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STT757
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:47 pm

Quoting dxing (Thread starter):
Being in the minority means you have to come up with even more off the wall type of stuff to get mentioned. Like Comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen,,,,,,

Hey don't dismiss Charlie Sheen so quickly, he's more popular amongst independent voters than Sarah Palin;

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51484.html

Even 1/4 of Republicans prefer Sheen to Palin.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 2):
Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.

2007 Budget (the last one controlled by the GOP before the Dems took over Congress) had a deficit of $160 billion, or 1.2% of GDP, and total outlays of $2.7 trillion. This includes all supplements, such as the Iraq Surge costs.

2011 is estimated to be in deficit by $1.3 trillion in the red, or 8.3% of GDP, on outlays of $3.8 trillion.

Sorry, but you are trying to say that a madman with a slingshot is just as bad as a madman with an AK-47. Both are bad, one is a lot worse.
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dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:26 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 2):
Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.

So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?
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TWFirst
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 5):
So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?

Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Ken777
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.

As opposed to the Merry Old Land of the Republicans were eliminating taxes for the rich is Priority One?

Quoting dxing (Reply 5):
So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?

Taxes should have been raised, but the Republicans were too afraid of the Tea Party folks that they would let the country sink deeper into debt. Saves having to speak the truth in public.

As far as spending, government spending in my city has been aggressive and effective. And long term investments. Bridges and roads that put a lot of people to work and can provide many years of service to the city.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

So a bunch of folks who are paid to guess (economists) think the Great Recession was so easily solved within a month or two of Obama taking office? BFD. For every one of those guessers there are multiple companies operating as if the Great Recession was continuing. Holding onto cash, avoiding investments in growth and keeping employment down
 
dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:41 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Of course it has to be the "WORST" to satiate the narcissitic crowd in charge now. I remember the recession of 82-84 as being a lot worse.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?

Yes, George Bush was not a fiscal conservative.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Taxes should have been raised, but the Republicans were too afraid of the Tea Party folks that they would let the country sink deeper into debt. Saves having to speak the truth in public.

Since the tea party didn't come into being until after the 2008 election, and the recession was already happening, no to mention the democratic party having absolute control over both Houses of Congress as well as the White House, that statment is just ridiculous and with absolutely no merit on its face.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
As far as spending, government spending in my city has been aggressive and effective. And long term investments. Bridges and roads that put a lot of people to work and can provide many years of service to the city.

Since only a tiny fraction of stimulus spending when to roads and bridges my guess would be that those projects were already in the works prior to the recession.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:44 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
As opposed to the Merry Old Land of the Republicans were eliminating taxes for the rich is Priority One?

I thought it very funny a few months ago when the "Tax Cuts for the Rich" absolutely had to be extended because of their huge impact on the middle class, that EVERYONE was going to see their taxes go up. And now they are "tax cuts for the rich" again.    
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
So a bunch of folks who are paid to guess (economists) think the Great Recession was so easily solved within a month or two of Obama taking office?

He (nor the government) had little to do with it. If you stay out of the way, economies are very good at fixing themselves. Governments are pretty good at fouling things up on the other hand - witness the 2008 meltdown.
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cargolex
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:36 pm

Quote:
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

Tell that to the millions of Americans out of a job. Oh wait...conservatives don't care about them. Moot point.

Quote:
Of course it has to be the "WORST" to satiate the narcissitic crowd in charge now. I remember the recession of 82-84 as being a lot worse.

Then you remember incorrectly. It's easily the greatest economic disruption since the depression, even factoring in the lingering economic turmoil in the years following the first oil crisis (remember sky high inflation and 10% unemployment?). But that's our country, there are other close allies of ours for whom this is not the worst recession since the depression - Great Britain, for example, can look back on the wonderful years of the 1970's and think "well it's not that bad right now." Not so for Americans.

Quote:

Yes, George Bush was not a fiscal conservative.

And yet, we're supposed to trust conservatives now because they say they have found religion on spending. Many of the people there now are the same people who were there during the Bush era, and it isn't the President alone who controls spending. Basically, the entire argument for allowing conservatives to have their way with spending now is that we are to forget how they acted over the last decade.

If I had a track record like they do, I wouldn't expect people to suddenly trust me - particularly when Republican aims seem blatantly partisan.

Deregulating the financial industry, reducing government oversight, and cutting taxes while borrowing - the Reagan philosophy - that's what got us where we are today. And now you expect people to just forget all this an support conservatives because they say they've changed.

No deal.

Quote:
I thought it very funny a few months ago when the "Tax Cuts for the Rich" absolutely had to be extended because of their huge impact on the middle class, that EVERYONE was going to see their taxes go up. And now they are "tax cuts for the rich" again.

Wow, that is deeply intellectually dishonest.

Tax cuts for the top earners are still tax cuts for the wealthy. The Republicans would not grant tax cuts for the middle class unless the top earners, the very wealthiest Americans, were also given tax cuts. They effectively held middle class people hostage to get what they wanted - lower taxes for the super wealthy.

There was never any question about whether or not tax cuts for the very wealthy have an effect on the middle class. They clearly do not - "trickle down" has been a failure since it was first conceived and since you remember the 1980's so well, perhaps you should look back to that time for mountains of historical evidence on this point.

If the Republicans did not get what they wanted, they were going to use the filibuster to make sure that everyone's taxes went up. It was a winning issue for the Dems, and I don't know why they didn't use it.

Quote:
He (nor the government) had little to do with it. If you stay out of the way, economies are very good at fixing themselves. Governments are pretty good at fouling things up on the other hand - witness the 2008 meltdown.

The 2008 economic meltdown can be traced directly to the pulling back of regulations and government involvement in the financial industry. I know conservatives love to pretend that it's all Fannie and Freddie's fault, but that simply isn't true, and as somebody who had a front row seat for the whole thing, I have to tell you that perpetuating that myth forever won't make it so.

Why did we have an economic meltdown? Deregulating - including the destruction of Glass-Steagall and the promotion of the idea that the market was entirely self-policing. The result was appointees like Alphonso Jackson, President Bush's HUD secretary. When Jackson was confronted by congressional democrats about the growing sub-prime problem, he responded that there was no problem, and did nothing on it. They talked to him as early as 2004 about it. Later on, he had to resign after it was revealed he had been giving sweetheart contracts to friends.

Even Alan Greenspan admitted he was wrong about self-regulation.

It is honestly amazing to me how people can selectively remember things in such incredibly distorted ways mere months after the actual events have occurred.
 
dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Then you remember incorrectly.

I"ll disagree with your coments. Unemployment was higher, interest rates were higher, housing foreclosures were just as bad, housing starts were just as abysmal. Jobs that required only a minimal education were going away and not coming back. Manufacturing was making its big exit. This last recession caught many people because unlike the 82-84 recession they had gone deeply in debt to keep up with the Jones next door. Much different. Also different was the response and the recovery. Much faster back in Reagan's day.

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Basically, the entire argument for allowing conservatives to have their way with spending now is that we are to forget how they acted over the last decade.

And we are supposed to forget the 30 years prior to 1994? Not to mention the fact that the democrats in charge of the House of Representative's abdicated their fiscal responsibility to come up with a budget going into an election year?

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Deregulating the financial industry, reducing government oversight, and cutting taxes while borrowing - the Reagan philosophy - that's what got us where we are today. And now you expect people to just forget all this an support conservatives because they say they've changed

We could trade charge for charge but that is a waste of time. In order to correct the situation big budget cuts have to be made. In defense, in entitlements, and in discretionary spending. Further delay is as useless as standing in the well of the House and comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen.
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Pyrex
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:40 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Why did we have an economic meltdown? Deregulating - including the destruction of Glass-Steagall and the promotion of the idea that the market was entirely self-policing.

Ah, the good old "Glass-Steagall" argument. If it's a regulation then it must be OK, right, even if basically everywhere else in the world commercial banks and brokerage houses are one and the same, and they seem to be doing fine. It must be great being a Liberal and having such a simplistic world view.

Ok, hot shot, since you know so much about regulation, please tell me ONE (just one) paragraph of Glass-Steagall that would have prevented the current crisis. Go ahead, take your time, I will be here all week. I will even wait for you to try to find something before pointing out the items in Glass-Steagall that would have made this crisis much, much worse (e.g., by preventing J.P. Morgan from rescuing Bear Stearns, or Bank of America for doing the same with Merrill Lynch).
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tbar220
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:51 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):

The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

I'm "officially" stunned that you believe that. Tell that to all the millions of people who are out of jobs. Tell that to millions of people who took pay cuts, health benefit cuts, retirement plan cuts, pension cuts, all just to keep their jobs. Tell that to the 16% of this country who live below the poverty line.

Do those people mean nothing to you? Is it fine to say the recession is over as long as all those people don't have jobs? Or food on their plates? Or heat in their homes? Guess they don't matter huh.

Oh wait, I forgot, its all the fault of teachers, policeman, firefighters, and EMT's. Those damn public (a.k.a. guvern-mint) workers leeching away at this country for their own greedy needs.

*sigh*
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windy95
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?

Well Bush did inherit the Tech recession and 9/11....And the recession is over now so what is the next excuse.
 
tommy767
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 15):

I don't think the recession is over. The economy on paper might be recovering but upemployment for March 2011 is at 10.2%. That isn't good.
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cargolex
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:17 pm

Quote:
Ok, hot shot, since you know so much about regulation, please tell me ONE (just one) paragraph of Glass-Steagall that would have prevented the current crisis. Go ahead, take your time, I will be here all week. I will even wait for you to try to find something before pointing out the items in Glass-Steagall that would have made this crisis much, much worse (e.g., by preventing J.P. Morgan from rescuing Bear Stearns, or Bank of America for doing the same with Merrill Lynch).


I could post the entire text of the act here if you like, but the fact is, the tearing down of that one piece of legislation - enacted to, in part, prevent exactly the kinds of manipulation we saw in the years from 2004-2008 - is a direct antecedent of the 2008 financial crisis. But it isn't the kind of easy, linear connection that makes for great storytelling. The elimination of Glass-Steagall - a bipartisan thing that had overwhelming support - merely allowed the stage to be set. The actual players and actors would not have been on that stage it if hadn't been for this.

Quote:
It must be great being a Liberal and having such a simplistic world view.

To be a liberal is to question everything, including your own views. I think we both understand that the world is many, many shades of gray and not black and white.

[Edited 2011-03-18 08:24:06]
 
wn700driver
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

Hey don't dismiss Charlie Sheen so quickly, he's more popular amongst independent voters than Sarah Palin;

And rightly so. He, at least, has a chance to return to some form of reality. . .

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate. As a practical matter, the economic landscape is still pretty ugly. As well, the recent surge in commodities trading will do no one anywhere any favors and will trigger the next phase of a W shaped recession.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
For every one of those guessers there are multiple companies operating as if the Great Recession was continuing. Holding onto cash, avoiding investments in growth and keeping employment down

And as long as that's the case, it really doesn't matter if the recession is 'over', a lot of people are still a lot worse off than when it began...
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:32 pm

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

How convenient. A recession is defined be periods of negative GDP growth, and now that Obama is in the white house, that definition is subject to all sorts of umms and ahhhs.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/GDP-Growth.aspx?Symbol=USD
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dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:39 pm

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
And rightly so. He, at least, has a chance to return to some form of reality. .

Somebody had to replace Michael Jackson as the prime hollywood whacko, Charlie got the job.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

Then you had better tell the President and his staff that.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
And as long as that's the case, it really doesn't matter if the recession is 'over', a lot of people are still a lot worse off than when it began...

And until they get some real leadership from the White House it will continue. You can't bash business in an election cycle and then kiss up to them afterward as if you said nothing, and expect them to have any confidence in your leadership.
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baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.

Hey, deficits are not popular down here and the current small Fed deficit in Oz is due to the 2008 collapse in the world financial markets masterminded by guess who? Want to check out our unemployment rate? Just you be careful what you say about the Merry old land of Oz!  
 
windy95
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):
I don't think the recession is over. The economy on paper might be recovering but upemployment for March 2011 is at 10.2%. That isn't good.
Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

Sorry guys but the recession has been over for a bit. You do know that it is based on the GDP. Not unemployment or commodities trading.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:42 pm

Quoting tbar220 (Reply 14):
I'm "officially" stunned that you believe that. Tell that to all the millions of people who are out of jobs.

Ever heard the expression that 20% of the people do 80% of the work in an organization? More than one business has probably come to realize that they are either better, about the same, or not significantly worse-off without the extra hands. There's a lot of jobs that won't be coming back.
 
windy95
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:54 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 23):
Ever heard the expression that 20% of the people do 80% of the work in an organization? More than one business has probably come to realize that they are either better, about the same, or not significantly worse-off without the extra hands. There's a lot of jobs that won't be coming back




Which is why Unions help kill Companies and jobs. They protect that bottom percent that gives or accomplishes nothing to the job or product.
 
AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 19):
How convenient. A recession is defined be periods of negative GDP growth, and now that Obama is in the white house, that definition is subject to all sorts of umms and ahhhs



Well he may hum and hah ... but the economy stinks in every possible way. I just got off our Wednesday conference call with a very large Aviation capital investment management company ... they ain't got any investments to manage coming up soon!!. Simple ..too many airplanes ..not enough tourists and free spenders needing seats. I don't blame Obama for the economy on all fronts that is for sure ... but the President does play a role in leading and calming the situation. The Democrats can not lead a economy ... because they do not need a growing economy ... they need dependents and Obama is the Democrat in chief.

The democrats sabotaged the economy ...talked it down for simple reasons of political power. Used sub-prime and any other jinga block they could to smack Bush and win the election. I have a question .. whenever we republicans talk about the employment numbers during the Bush administration .. we always here democrats say " Ya but middle class income was stagnant ..it was only the rich". I am curious how those middle class income numbers look now ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:03 pm

Rush throwes it down on the Democrats today .... if you dare ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQlCmEjw4R0
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
seb146
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:29 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
Used sub-prime and any other jinga block they could to smack Bush and win the election.

And the right wing used the promise of job creation to get elected. Where are the jobs?
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WarRI1
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:48 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
Rush throwes it down on the Democrats today .... if you dare ...



I tried, honestly to watch the man, I could not, please no more of his glop. Mercy please.
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WarRI1
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:57 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
Hey, deficits are not popular down here and the current small Fed deficit in Oz is due to the 2008 collapse in the world financial markets masterminded by guess who? Want to check out our unemployment rate? Just you be careful what you say about the Merry old land of Oz!

Like a breath of fresh air, a dose of reality, the truth about who caused the collapse, it was not Obama for sure. When you read some of this bull, you tend to think of OZ, where reality is an entirly different thing, all is not as it seems. The truth is hidden by the "Wizards" of Wall Street, and their enablers. Green smoke, or any other smoke hides many things.The Rightwing has a giant smoke machine going, mirrors help also.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:48 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 29):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
Hey, deficits are not popular down here and the current small Fed deficit in Oz is due to the 2008 collapse in the world financial markets masterminded by guess who? Want to check out our unemployment rate? Just you be careful what you say about the Merry old land of Oz!

Like a breath of fresh air, a dose of reality, the truth about who caused the collapse, it was not Obama for sure. When you read some of this bull, you tend to think of OZ, where reality is an entirly different thing, all is not as it seems. The truth is hidden by the "Wizards" of Wall Street, and their enablers. Green smoke, or any other smoke hides many things.The Rightwing has a giant smoke machine going, mirrors help also.

Somewhere or other I am on record in a,net as pointing out that the problems were evident in late 2007 - a time when Obama was hardly a front runner.

Yes the Wizards of Oz re the Kansas story get mixed up with the real Wizards of Oz who hail from Australia, Aus being also spelled as Oz. But the ridiculous performance leading to the GFC is not so much the Wizard of Oz story and Through the Looking Glass. And the bankers remind one of the Walrus and the Carpenter.

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.


And how did they get into that pickle, well actually it was a sandwich:

"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each."

The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head--
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.

But four young Oysters hurried up,
All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
Their shoes were clean and neat--
And this was odd, because, you know,
They hadn't any feet.

Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more--
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.


Followers of the finance industry to a fault.

Now when you come to the Tea party nostrums, best move on to the Mad Hatter's Tea Party. But go to Carroll and not Disney for analogies.
 
AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 28):
tried, honestly to watch the man, I could not, please no more of his glop. Mercy please.



Well .... every word of it happened .... its not like he is making it up. So you have trouble listening to someone tell the truth ? The Democrats did every thing Rush said in the blast ... and the press followed right along. Hell we don't even have a thread on here about the troops in Afghanistan posing with dead people ... guess its not interesting now . Funny seeing General W.Clark tonight talking about the need for regime change in Libya ... amazing . My Money say's we will have Harry Reid proclaim victory soon !   
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
windy95
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:17 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Hell we don't even have a thread on here about the troops in Afghanistan posing with dead people ... guess its not interesting now .

I guess I am not the only one who is not surprised that the left on here did not start an Obama Ghraib thread.   They will do anything to protect the chosen one including massive hypocrisy when it comes to avoiding issues like this. they will stick to the Palin/beck/Rush threads. Now it seems that War is good again, GITMO and Military trials are back in vogue, the Patriot act is just fine, and last but not least doubling or tripling down on the Bush deficit is just flat common sense economics.
 
bhill
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:45 pm

"Stephen Harper, the prime minister of Canada, is among the many Canadians who regularly remind the world that their country’s banking system was left largely unscathed by the global recession and credit market collapse because of its regulation and prudent management."



http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/02/...-failures-12000-in-us-vs-2-in.html

Yeah, right....regulation is bad.....

And something really off the wall? Senator Doc Hastings blaming Dems for oil price increases.....
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WarRI1
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Well .... every word of it happened .... its not like he is making it up. So you have trouble listening to someone tell the truth ? The Democrats did every thing Rush said in the blast ... and the press followed right along. Hell we don't even have a thread on here about the troops in Afghanistan posing with dead people ... guess its not interesting now . Funny seeing General W.Clark tonight talking about the need for regime change in Libya ... amazing . My Money say's we will have Harry Reid proclaim victory soon !

My fault, I should have made it clear, it is the messenger, that I cannot watch. I try to never deny the truth.
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AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
I guess I am not the only one who is not surprised that the left on here did not start an Obama Ghraib thread


Well I am glad they didnt ...

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
left largely unscathed by the global recession and credit market collapse because of its regulation and prudent management."



Maybe ..but scale and complexity of the mortgage industry alone in the US compared to Canada lends doubt on that claim. Like those who compare us to Sweden ... the shear scale blows that argument out of the water. The housing market falling in the US was enough on its own to crash the system ... just our housing market . Now add commercial finance , credit lines , term investments .. it snowballed in a hurry once someone said "Sub-prime" .

See regulation is one thing .... our problem is not regulation our problem is that actual government funds are used to prop up and influence markets. With that ... a crash becomes even more destabilizing due to the budget and deficit of the state itself. So the very entity that is supposed to be the citizens foundation of order and stability becomes wrecked by financial losses trying to play in the market. The FM's alone lost nearly a trillion dollars in a few weeks ... not to mention all the loans backed by prime banks that collapsed .

We need to go one way or the other ... either all free market with government over sight ... or Chinese communism. Just have the state own everything and we people just rent it from them and work. The Quasi centrally controlled economy with the slush fund of D.C being prayed on by "capitalists" is not going to work.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 35):
Just have the state own everything and we people just rent it from them and work.

Do you really think we own anything? Try not paying your mortgage, or your taxes. The state owns everything, we borrow it, as long as we can pay. The King gave you a grant, but there was a price to pay, or else. Same here now.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 35):
The housing market falling in the US was enough on its own to crash the system ... just our housing market

Well while on the subject, approx stats for Japan are the US housing crisis BEFORE Obama took office took about 10% off the Japan GDP. The 9.0 quake, the 10 to 15 metre tsunami AND the broken nuclear power station are estimated to knock about 0.4% off the GDP of Japan. ABC commentary. No doubt could find the source in anyone wants to wallow in that miserable statistic. But essentially, the US debacle due to lack of regulation, was about 20 times as bad for an economy over 10,000 kms away from the US, Interesting.

If there WAS a world government, surely it would ban countries being as cavalier with financial systems as the US was. Then it could turn its attention to the PIIGS! As has been pointed out, Canada and Australia could offer some advice from the cheap seats.
 
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:12 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 37):
If there WAS a world government, surely it would ban countries being as cavalier with financial systems as the US was.

Thank God there is not.
 
baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:21 pm

Nice to know that some are still following a variety of the old fox hunt adage of the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible.

As to an Obama Abu Graib thread, something does seem to have changed.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3173206.htm
The first of five US soldiers accused of murdering unarmed civilians in Afghanistan last year has been sentenced to 24 years in jail.

Not sure of all the circumstances or why there is a difference, but it certainly contrasts with the sentences handed down for the murder of Dilawar. And that is for a guy who was collaborating with the prosecution.
 
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 37):
If there WAS a world government, surely it would ban countries being as cavalier with financial systems as the US was.



And it will be a grey place ... clones and factory workers lined up for rations of soup while pleading to the master for gifts. See the human spirit of freedom and the quest for economic success is what makes the world better IMO. Risk and reward .. failure and success are the ideals that make our lives worth living. If we expect our central government to put up ceilings and walls ... maizes and locks to impede that freewill then we should expect a mass of disenfranchised humans . Their is no perfect system ..but the Western model of free-markets and entrepreneurial endeavors is IMO still the best. It is not without risks... economies always arch and dip crash and falter ... but it is self healing if simply left to return.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 36):
Do you really think we own anything?



I do ... of course the king can always send in the troops and take it . And that will happen someday in America ... but for now I actually own the place. It is mine and short of a marshaling of all property by the State for the good of the commune ..it will be mine forever.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 39):
contrasts with the sentences handed down for the murder of Dilawar.

               Huh? What?    Him again? Wake me when you've got something new to rant about....                  

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 36):
Do you really think we own anything?



I do ... of course the king can always send in the troops and take it

I'll second that. I own my place as well, and everything in it as well as my automobiles, and my motorcycle. As long as I pay the property taxes no one supposedly can take it from me, unless the city goes to the Supreme Court and shows that it is actually better off if they can claim imminent domain to give it to a developer that can generate more taxes!   . But the vehicles are mine even if I don't pay the insurance or pay for a new tag or inspection.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
bhill
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:35 pm

AGM100, I'm pretty sure that if the banks in the US were not allowed to wheel and deal in the mortgage backed security markets and there was tighter REGULATION on how said securities were packaged and are/were graded for underwriting, we would not be in this mess. It gets better...the banksters are back to their old ways...and with the help of the GOP...light fuse and get away...I admit I'm no expert, but when Greenspan admits he screwed the pooch...well.....
Carpe Pices
 
Ken777
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 9):
Since the tea party didn't come into being until after the 2008 election

I'm talking about the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts that was on the table for the 2010 election. The Tea Folks were certainly wrapping themselves in the flag by then and the Republicans were walking on eggs.

Quoting dxing (Reply 9):
my guess would be that those projects were already in the works prior to the recession.

And your guess would be wrong.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
I thought it very funny a few months ago when the "Tax Cuts for the Rich" absolutely had to be extended because of their huge impact on the middle class,

And how has that worked out for the middle class? Any big surprises of benefits trickling down?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
If you stay out of the way, economies are very good at fixing themselves.

We had a huge financial crisis that would only have been worse if there was no government intervention.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
And as long as that's the case, it really doesn't matter if the recession is 'over', a lot of people are still a lot worse off than when it began...

No surprise there - we had 8 years of Bush & Cheney in the White House. The most affluent in the country increased their wealth and the middle class on down took the hit. Redistribution of Wealth, Republican Style.
 
dxing
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
I'm talking about the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts that was on the table for the 2010 election.

Cargolex was not.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
And your guess would be wrong.

I don't believe it. Major road projects, the kinds that spend the kind of money you suggest, take years of study and engineering before the earth moves.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
We had a huge financial crisis that would only have been worse if there was no government intervention.

The myth continues.......

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
. The most affluent in the country increased their wealth and the middle class on down took the hit.

The middle class will always fare worse in any economic downturn than the wealthy just as the poor will fare worse than the middle class. Any other obvious conclusions you'd like to point out?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:29 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
And it will be a grey place ... clones and factory workers lined up for rations of soup while pleading to the master for gifts. See the human spirit of freedom and the quest for economic success is what makes the world better IMO.

Interesting that you have such a detailed picture of what a world government would be like. Just in case you do not realise this, there never has been a world government. The nearest approaches would have been empires such as the Roman, British and American.

Whatever the faults of the Roman government - and there were many - you could hardly call it a grey place.

It does rather suggest that your view of a concept such as world government is totally governed by conditioning that has no basis in reality.

It is a bit of a worry that we are trying to discuss what the Dems are, or are not doing in the face of reflex responses.

BTW, if you are saying that regulation to prevent bank collapses such as the one in 2008, would give a grey place, then I think a lot of folk would settle for a very grey place.

The ones who want to keep away from bank regulation are the ones playing the leveraged, heads I win and tails you lose games. Really we have had enough of these games.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 41):
I'll second that. I own my place as well, and everything in it as well as my automobiles, and my motorcycle. As long as I pay the property taxes no one supposedly can take it from me, unless the city goes to the Supreme Court and shows that it is actually better off if they can claim imminent domain to give it to a developer that can generate more taxes! . But the vehicles are mine even if I don't pay the insurance or pay for a new tag or inspection.

Good point, I forgot about Eminent Domain. I used to believe in private property myself, not now. They have used it here also to benefit the public, a joke. We had a case here, where a family owned the land and farmed it for 100 years, it was taken for the good of the community, so they could extend a commercial park, where Fidelity was going to move into and provide some jobs. Goodbye 100 year old private farm, hello Fidelity. Unless you store a vehicle, unregistered, you will pay your local taxes, on it, or you will not register any other vehicles. You can get away with it, with motor vehicles, not property, or the King sends out the troops.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 45):
BTW, if you are saying that regulation to prevent bank collapses such as the one in 2008, would give a grey place, then I think a lot of folk would settle for a very grey place.



Keeping it simple .... (for me) ... governments role is to provide security ,enforce laws , protect commerce and infrastructure put in place by the people.

Its role is not to inject capital into politically favourable endeavours of "capitalists" . "Capitalists" are to blame for many of our problems now ...not true capitalist but the ones who look for capital from the government. That is not free market capitalism that is simply fascism... that's how I see it.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
baroque
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 47):
Its role is not to inject capital into politically favourable endeavours of "capitalists" . "Capitalists" are to blame for many of our problems now ...not true capitalist but the ones who look for capital from the government. That is not free market capitalism that is simply fascism... that's how I see it.

Well history seems to show that the US Bush led goverment was unable to cope with the financial collapse spreading from the US and arguably the critical steps were put in place by the G20 - arguably a mini-world government.

So I would be a tad cautious about mocking world government when in practice you have already had to appeal to a supra-national organization for rescue.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...s/releases/2008/11/20081115-1.html
Tasking of Ministers and Experts

10. We are committed to taking rapid action to implement these principles. We instruct our Finance Ministers, as coordinated by their 2009 G-20 leadership (Brazil, UK, Republic of Korea), to initiate processes and a timeline to do so. An initial list of specific measures is set forth in the attached Action Plan, including high priority actions to be completed prior to March 31, 2009.

In consultation with other economies and existing bodies, drawing upon the recommendations of such eminent independent experts as they may appoint, we request our Finance Ministers to formulate additional recommendations, including in the following specific areas:

Mitigating against pro-cyclicality in regulatory policy;
Reviewing and aligning global accounting standards, particularly for complex securities in times of stress;
Strengthening the resilience and transparency of credit derivatives markets and reducing their systemic risks, including by improving the infrastructure of over-the-counter markets;
Reviewing compensation practices as they relate to incentives for risk taking and innovation;
Reviewing the mandates, governance, and resource requirements of the IFIs; and
Defining the scope of systemically important institutions and determining their appropriate regulation or oversight.

11. In view of the role of the G-20 in financial systems reform, we will meet again by April 30, 2009, to review the implementation of the principles and decisions agreed today.


There is even what looks quite like an appeal for a world government in there.
4. Major underlying factors to the current situation were, among others, inconsistent and insufficiently coordinated macroeconomic policies, inadequate structural reforms, which led to unsustainable global macroeconomic outcomes. These developments, together, contributed to excesses and ultimately resulted in severe market disruption.
 
AGM100
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RE: Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff

Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 48):
So I would be a tad cautious about mocking world government when in practice you have already had to appeal to a supra-national organization for rescue.



I agree ... its betrayal by our leaders on a grand scale for political purposes. What they did was stave of the inevitable ... like starving to death slowly rather than a quick death. With the scale of spending now ...when the bills come due for our kids it wont matter anyway.

Just could not let this thread die without a gift from Chuckee shooooma.

Quote " The Caucus told me to say this from now on " " The Tea Party is extremist " .... hahah what a hack this guy is.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/03/...crophone-snares-sen-chuck-schumer/
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !

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