wilco737
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German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:23 am

I am sure many of you heard some nice stories about the German Autobahn and no speed limit.

There are many parts of the Autobahn where you can go as fast as your car can take you. But there are areas where you have a speed limit of 80 km/h, 100, 120, 130...

Now I read an article about a 22 year old guy who was 190 km/h too fast! 100 was the speed limit and he was doing 290...
Here is the report in German though:

http://www.focus.de/politik/schlagzeilen/nid_68093.html

The police followed him for 30 minutes and had trouble to stay behind him to catch him. Finally they cought him... Will lose his drivers licence for 3 months and have to pay € 1,800....

Pretty stupid....

wilco737
  
 
travelavnut
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:52 am

Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
German Autobahn

Mmmmhhh the Autobahn    Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans     
Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
Now I read an article about a 22 year old guy who was 190 km/h too fast! 100 was the speed limit and he was doing 290...

Holy F-! Any word on what car he used for this?!
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wilco737
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:14 am

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans

   Nicely said  The Problem these days is the traffic. Usually only at night you can go fast, all the other time it is rather full and you'd better go that fast.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Holy F-! Any word on what car he used for this?!

No, nothing about the car... Would be interesting though.

wilco737
  
 
Severnaya
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:24 am

Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
German Autobahn

  

Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
100 was the speed limit and he was doing 290...

What an irresponsible person, that 100 km/h limit is there for a reason. Had he just gone a little east or north of Hamburg there would be plenty of "space to race".

I personally never drive faster than 190/200, that's about the speed you're still in control and are pretty fast back to normal 130 speeds. Anything above 200 in my opinion is crazy.

  
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travelavnut
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:29 am

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 3):
Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
100 was the speed limit and he was doing 290...

What an irresponsible person, that 100 km/h limit is there for a reason.



Indeed. Last winter I did a slip-course (don't know if that's the correct English term), recovering from spins and making emergency stops. One part was emergency stops at different speeds, the difference in stopping distance between for example 90km/h and 120km/h is quite impressive. The stopping distance when going 290km/h should be in the neighborhood of 0.5 - 1 km, way too long in virtually all cases where you have to stop quickly.
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flood
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:38 am

 
Kiwirob
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:47 am

That's not a standard 7 series if it hit 290!!
 
flood
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:52 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
That's not a standard 7 series if it hit 290!!

Yeah, the article mentions it didn't have the electronic limiter (or it was overridden / dissengaged)... I imagine there are ways to override these things using aftermarket chips or the like.

eta: cops didn't do too bad either btw although it was said they had a hard time keeping up... looks like they gave chase in an unmarked Benz.

[Edited 2011-03-29 01:56:15]
 
wilco737
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 3):
What an irresponsible person, that 100 km/h limit is there for a reason.

Exactly...

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
That's not a standard 7 series if it hit 290!!

Nope, and it is not the latest model.

Quoting flood (Reply 7):
Yeah, the article mentions it didn't have the electronic limiter (or it was overridden / dissengaged)... I imagine there are ways to override these things using aftermarket chips or the like.

It is even legal to get rid of the limiter. When I bought my 300 HP Mercedes I asked him as well to get rid of it. He said, no problem, just give me € 1,600 and we can do that. Oh and think about new tires which are approved for these high speeds...
So I said, errmmm, no thanks. 250 is ok... and the limiter gives you a little more, so I was able to do 260 km/h which is fast enough...

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wilco737
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:57 am

Quoting flood (Reply 7):
looks like they gave chase in an unmarked Benz.

There are many unmarked police cars out there on the Autobahn. They drive around and look for people who behave badly. And then they catch you and you are in trouble.

wilco737
  
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:07 am

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans

don't worry, we stay as clear as we can when we see a yellow licence plate...  

unless his last name was Vettel that was too fast for an inexperienced 22 year old. He should be a bit older before making rotation speed.

What makes me wonder however is how that guy could keep the speed all the way, he must have been coming from Fehmarn down to the A24 junction and at 290 kmh that should take less than 30 minutes. Porbably police could catch up only because he was occasionally held up in traffic.
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HT
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:21 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
What makes me wonder however is how that guy could keep the speed all the way, he must have been coming from Fehmarn down to the A24 junction

Nope. The article linked in reply #5 says the car, occupied with 4 people, was driving north between Billstedt and Öjendorf.
It had Polish license plates; driver was a Brazilian national.
Some illegal drugs were found which were attributed to a passenger but not the driver.
Car then was stopped only after it had left the motorway in Jenfeld.
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na
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:36 am

Sounds like something that Ghaddafi´s son did when in Munich. He got away always due to his diplomatic status.

A Spaniard I know who is an avid sportscar driver for long and who currently owns a tuned Porsche 911 Turbo said to me just last week he sometimes enters the motorway at 5 in the morning to go a bit faster than the limit. His record: 320 km/h. Thats also 190 above the limit I´d say. Crazy guy he is.
 
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:47 am

Hamburg (dpa) - Tempo 290 has reached a young speedster in Hamburg - allows nearly 200 kilometers per hour faster than. The man fell from the police on a traffic stop on the highway first There, only 100 km is allowed. The police had difficulty following the 22-year-olds. They drove about 30 minutes behind him - and the man could stop only when he drove off the A24. His co-driver had small amounts of drugs with us. The drivers expect three months driving ban and a fine of 1800 €.

This is what Google translate gave me..   
אני תומך בישראל
 
travelavnut
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:02 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans

don't worry, we stay as clear as we can when we see a yellow licence plate...

Hehe touché  

Although I am one of those rare Dutch that actually keep the lef lane free, I don't have a fast German car so I have no business being there. Did reach 220 on the middle lane though, in a Suzuki Swift!! (downhill and downwind)
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wingman
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:26 pm

For a lot of great night video on the autobahn you can look up the Ruf test runs on You Tube where the factory driver "authenticates" the top speed of every modified Porsche they deliver. Unfortunately this is not a service provided by the US Ruf tuning center in Texas. I have to say it's a bit unsettling to watch the divider lines whip past the car at 320 KPH when the headlights are only illuminating them at a 100-150 yds out. I always fear a traveling Bull Moose might find his way to Germany and atomize a new 911 Ruf Turbo by accident.
 
Luftfahrer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:36 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
don't worry, we stay as clear as we can when we see a yellow licence plate...

"Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, hälste Abstand, bleibst gesund!" 
Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
Will lose his drivers licence for 3 months and have to pay € 1,800

Quite a lenient punishment IMO. In other countries, you pay much more for speeding, and you might even end up in jail. I am glad that nothing happened here. Very often I see articles in the newspaper about (serious) accidents involving ~20 year-old, irresponsible drivers.
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:05 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):

unless his last name was Vettel that was too fast for an inexperienced 22 year old. He should be a bit older before making rotation speed.

Rotation speed for what? An F-16? A 747 typically hits Vr at...what... 200 kph? 250 max?
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sw733
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 11):
It had Polish license plates; driver was a Brazilian national.

Dude gets around! I guess when you drive that fast, the world is a lot smaller.
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 14):
Although I am one of those rare Dutch that actually keep the lef lane free,

good man:  
Quoting HT (Reply 11):
Nope. The article linked in reply #5 says the car, occupied with 4 people, was driving north between Billstedt and Öjendorf.

Did not read the link, whatever, that doesn't take 30 minutes, least not at that kind of speed.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 16):
Quite a lenient punishment IMO. I

we should be glad about that and keep it that way. Such extremes are very rare, in relation to the number of cars on the road. I generally, most of the time, go between 10 and 20 kmh over the limit and I have zero point in the central register. If you keep it under 20 kmh over the limit, not much happens., Police in unmarked cars gets interested at 40 kmh over the limit and reckless driving. Still, we are one of the saftes countries worldwide, not only when it comes to driving.
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 11):
driver was a Brazilian national

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rlwynn
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:23 pm

I drive the autobahn daily and I usually limit my speed to 160-180kmh (100 - 110 mph) basically because faster uses an extreme amount of gasoline for the small saving in time. Also it just cannot be good for the motor. It would be like you Americans driving on the freeway in 2nd gear at 5000rpm.
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:12 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 14):
(downhill and downwind)

You forgot The Sun in your back   

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peterpuck
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Rotation speed for what? An F-16? A 747 typically hits Vr at...what... 200 kph? 250 max?

757 typical rotation is around 260 to 280 km/h.

An improved climb takeoff may rotate well over 300.
 
A342
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:05 am

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Mmmmhhh the Autobahn Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans

Sticker on a Dutch car:

"ALS JE DIT KUNT LEZEN BEN IK MIJN SLEURHUT VERLOREN !"   
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Mir
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:23 am

Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
Will lose his drivers licence for 3 months and have to pay € 1,800....

That's it? He got off very easy IMO - loss of license for a year would have been a good starting point.

-Mir
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bps3458
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:45 am

Boy, am I looking forward to a couple of days back home in May and taking my rent-a-car for a ride on the A7 down to Hannover. I love living Down Under but driving max 100-110 km/h drives me nuts and still people manage to crash their cars at this crawling speed.

Never would consider exceeding the speed limit by this much. This guy should have been put behind bares for a couple of months or a year. Another example of the way too lenient legislature in Germany.

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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:33 am

Quoting wilco737 (Thread starter):
Will lose his drivers licence for 3 months and have to pay € 1,800....

Not a bad return really... that would have me in front of a judge here on a DD charge.

Quoting HT (Reply 11):
It had Polish license plates; driver was a Brazilian national.

So he's a footballer then...  in which case no licence and a small 1800 euro fine is not going to matter to him hahaha

I've hit similar speeds as a passenger in a 100kph zone. was entertaining.
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wilco737
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:48 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
That's it?
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 27):
Not a bad return really... that would have me in front of a judge here on a DD charge.

Speeding in Germany isn't very expensive. A little bit too fast in the city is only €15 (I think around 10km/h too fast) up to 20 too fast it is €25 and that's it. All above 21 too fast you get points and have to pay more... something like that.
But using your cell phone during driving is €80.... and one point...

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travelavnut
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:57 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 24):

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 1):
Mmmmhhh the Autobahn Such a pity the rest of the country is full of Germans

Sticker on a Dutch car:

"ALS JE DIT KUNT LEZEN BEN IK MIJN SLEURHUT VERLOREN !"

Ow damn, sometimes I'm (very) ashamed of my fellow Dutchies   My parents do this, go to Germany of France with their freaking sleurhut (caravan, or drag-hut in English). Go 80 km/h so trucks need to overtake them forcing the cars in the middle lane to go to the left lane. Terrible behavior   
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na
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:58 am

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 28):
Speeding in Germany isn't very expensive. A little bit too fast in the city is only €15 (I think around 10km/h too fast)

You´re right, but if it comes to little misbehavings as driving 10 km/h too fast in town or 20 on the autobahn thats ok, because that so easily done you hardly realise it and also because otherwise the whole German Poilice would have to do nothing else but writing tickets.
What is not ok is that extreme speeding comes so cheap. 1800 for being 190 above the limit - better add a zero to teach someone a lesson.
If I drive on the autobahn my normal speed is between 140 - 170 on unlimited stretches.
 
racko
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:15 am

Come on, he's innocent. How is he supposed to read the speed limit signs at 290km/h?
 
Mir
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 28):
Speeding in Germany isn't very expensive. A little bit too fast in the city is only €15 (I think around 10km/h too fast) up to 20 too fast it is €25 and that's it.

Which is sensible. But when you're talking about 190km/h too fast, things change a bit.

-Mir
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airtrainer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:25 pm

30 minutes at that speed...add a few minutes and they would have been able to cover the entire lenght of Belgium, east to west ! Not sure if they would make it alive to the border considering how bad the roads are here in this little country   But I've heard on the news this month that a guy was caught at 286kph ON A ROAD with the new Mercedes SLS...
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LH526
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 16):
Quite a lenient punishment IMO. In other countries, you pay much more for speeding, and you might even end up in jail.

Yet speeding alone in Germany is still a misdemeanor .. not a crime.

[Edited 2011-03-30 08:02:53]
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MD11Engineer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:32 pm

Depending on the exact circumstances (mainly if he almost caused an accident by speeding e.g. in a curve or intersection with bad visibility), they might get him for "Gefährdung des Strassenverkehrs" (recklessly endangering road traffic, German penal code §315c), for which the maximum punishment is 5 years in prison.

Jan
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rlwynn
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting airtrainer (Reply 33):
Quoting airtrainer (Reply 33):
30 minutes at that speed...add a few minutes and they would have been able to cover the entire lenght of Belgium, east to west ! Not sure if they would make it alive to the border considering how bad the roads are here in this little country   But I've heard on the news this month that a guy was caught at 286kph ON A ROAD with the new Mercedes SLS...

For sure most Belgian roads are in better shape than roads in Germany. Except in the east where they got all the money to modernize the road system.
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JL418
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:39 am

How come the Autobahnpolizei revoked this kid's licence for just three months? I know some people who got their licence lifted for as much time just because they were having 0.55 grams of alcohol per 100 ml of blood when the limit enforced is 0.50.
 
NoUFO
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:08 am

Quoting JL418 (Reply 37):
How come the Autobahnpolizei revoked this kid's licence for just three months?

Because that's the maximum. It's called license suspension and is basically imposed on the spot.
The "kid" could lose his driving license for good as well, but that decision would be up to a court.
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LJ
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:35 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 29):
Ow damn, sometimes I'm (very) ashamed of my fellow Dutchies My parents do this, go to Germany of France with their freaking sleurhut (caravan, or drag-hut in English). Go 80 km/h so trucks need to overtake them forcing the cars in the middle lane to go to the left lane. Terrible behavior

Well both trucks and those with a caravan should drive 80km/h and should remain on the right lane... However, they usually end up in the middle lane forcing me to go to the left lane... Maybe they should make a new law banning also caravans on the Autobahn on Sundays (in addition to banning trucks). That would really speed up.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 36):
Except in the east where they got all the money to modernize the road system.

Shouldn't be a problem in a few years time as the number of road constructions I've to pass to Southern Germany is a lot these days (though less than last year).
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 37):
How come the Autobahnpolizei revoked this kid's licence for just three months? I know some people who got their licence lifted for as much time just because they were having 0.55 grams of alcohol per 100 ml of blood when the limit enforced is 0.50.

The cops can tell a traffic rules violator to hand the driving licence over (and sometimes the car keys as well). Basically they tell to the perp that he is not going to drive anymore from this moment on and it is up to him to find a way home.
This is limited to a maximum of three months. Obviously the cops will also report the perp to the respective traffic court and there he might lose his licence for good and get a much higher fine imposed.
The guy could also challenge the police´s decision by going to court himself, but with all the evidence available against him, he might loose out.

Jan
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JL418
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:21 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 40):
The cops can tell a traffic rules violator to hand the driving licence over (and sometimes the car keys as well). Basically they tell to the perp that he is not going to drive anymore from this moment on and it is up to him to find a way home.
This is limited to a maximum of three months. Obviously the cops will also report the perp to the respective traffic court and there he might lose his licence for good and get a much higher fine imposed.
The guy could also challenge the police´s decision by going to court himself, but with all the evidence available against him, he might loose out.

Jan

Thanks Jan, didn't know that. Here it works quite differently, at least as far as alcohol is concerned. Anyway, I do hope this guy gets his licence scrapped for a very, very long time and sees its beloved Beemer auctioned on E-bay. Call me boring, but if you want to race there's plenty of racetracks to do it, not public roads. Nürburgring's in Germany after all!
 
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 16):
Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, hälste Abstand, bleibst gesund!"
Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
"ALS JE DIT KUNT LEZEN BEN IK MIJN SLEURHUT VERLOREN !"

Pardon my ignorance, but could somebody please translate these to English?

Thanks,

F
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MD11Engineer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 42):
Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 16):
Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, hälste Abstand, bleibst gesund!"
Quoting A342 (Reply 24):
"ALS JE DIT KUNT LEZEN BEN IK MIJN SLEURHUT VERLOREN !"

Pardon my ignorance, but could somebody please translate these to English?

Thanks,

F

First quote (from German):

"Black letters on yellow background (refering to Dutch number plates), keep your distance and you will stay healthy"

Second quote (from Dutch):
"If you can read this I´ve lost my camping caravan"
(The Dutch have a reputation in Germany (and many other places in Europe) for blocking the Autobahns while towing oversized camping caravans with undersized cars. Often these drivers are also not used to drive with a trailer.
This is in contrast to Dutch long distance truck drivers, who often exceed the speed limits and do dangerous overtaking maneuvers with their 18 wheelers once they are outside the Netherlands.

Jan
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larshjort
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:44 pm

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 42):
Schwarze Schrift auf gelbem Grund, hälste Abstand, bleibst gesund!"
Quoting fridgmus (Reply 42):
Pardon my ignorance, but could somebody please translate these to English?

Black writing on yellow base, keep distance, stay healthy.

Dutch number plates are black on yellow.

/Lars
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:54 pm

I drove from Essen, Germany to Denmark yesterday, and damn - many people are driving really fast.. I was doing a good 140 km/h, and many people were speeding by with a speed I deem to be around 200-220km/h
 
NoUFO
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 41):
Here it works quite differently, at least as far as alcohol is concerned.

I am very much hoping the Italian police is not going to replace courts. Police can can confiscate a driver's licence (and the keys as Jan has stated correctly) to avert imminent danger, but this cannot be permanent. Fines are limited as well; actually I thought the limit was 500 or 600 €.
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JL418
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
I am very much hoping the Italian police is not going to replace courts. Police can can confiscate a driver's licence (and the keys as Jan has stated correctly) to avert imminent danger, but this cannot be permanent. Fines are limited as well; actually I thought the limit was 500 or 600 €.

If I understood well, in the case of driving while intoxicated, police (or carabinieri, for that matter), can stop you, confiscate your licence and fine you according to the law. The recently amended Codice della strada provides fines which, obviously, increase according to the level of alcohol in the offender's blood. The fine is formalized in court or by a competent State officer if I understood well, and obviously you can challenge it if you feel like (i.e. if you're stupid enough to do that, IMHO), but basically the fine is imposed by the state trooper on ground, who is just putting the law into practice.

Fines have gone absolutely bonkers - rightly so I think, as you can be fined from 500€ up to 6000€, the licence can be confiscated for a minimum of 3 months up to 2 years and you can be sentenced in prison up to an year. The paradox is that it is much easier to get in prison for drunk driving than for actually killing someone on the road!
 
PanHAM
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:38 am

Drunk driving is always intentionally, whereas killing someone in an accident is - at least can be accidentally. If you are not intoxicated (drugs or alcohol) have no previous record and caused an accidental death, you will most likely get less than 2 years on probation, wihtout having to serve time. That's for Germany.
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airtrainer
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RE: German Autobahn, Slightly Too Fast...

Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:25 am

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 36):
For sure most Belgian roads are in better shape than roads in Germany. Except in the east where they got all the money to modernize the road system.

Seriously ? I rarely drive in Germany but I've never noticed anything wrong on the roads.
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