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Dreadnought
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Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:03 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/19...nfirming-feds-apprehension-policy/

Quote:
An Arizona sheriff says he has been flooded with calls and emails of support from local and federal agents who back his claims that the U.S. Border Patrol has effectively ordered them to stop apprehending illegal immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexican border.

“Upper management has advised supervisors to have agents ‘turn back South’ (TBS) the illegal aliens (aka bodies) they detect attempting to unlawfully enter the country … at times you even hear supervisors order the agents over the radio to 'TBS' the aliens instead of catching them,” one San Diego border agent wrote in an email to Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever.

“This only causes more problems as the aliens, as you know, don't just go back to Mexico and give up. They keep trying, sometimes without 10 minutes in-between attempts, to cross illegally,”

FoxNews.com first reported this month that Dever said several Border Patrol officials, including at least one senior supervisor, told him they had been directed to keep the number of border apprehensions down by chasing illegal immigrants back toward Mexico. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has recently cited a reduction in border apprehensions as evidence of an increasingly secure border.

Brilliant. But hardly surprising. Let's just not bother with a border, shall we?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:07 pm

Whats the difference with apprehending them, and a couple hours later sending them back South, and telling them to turn around on the spot? Not much imo, except less paperwork to deal with.

Unless we can manage to reduce how porous the border is people will continue to cross and continue the cat and mouse game.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CPH-R
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Whats the difference with apprehending them, and a couple hours later sending them back South, and telling them to turn around on the spot? Not much imo, except less paperwork to deal with.

Unless we can manage to reduce how porous the border is people will continue to cross and continue the cat and mouse game.

This, really. I think everyone can agree that it's hopeless to assume, that the illegals can be discouraged from seeking to enter the US.

Incidently, I see it's not the first time these claims are being made. Under "More similar topics...", you find Border Patrol Asked To Stand Down In AZ? (by Jamesag96 May 13 2005 in Non Aviation) which sounds like pretty much the same thing.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:46 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
Incidently, I see it's not the first time these claims are being made. Under "More similar topics...", you find Border Patrol Asked To Stand Down In AZ? (by Jamesag96 May 13 2005 in Non Aviation) which sounds like pretty much the same thing.

But:

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has recently cited a reduction in border apprehensions as evidence of an increasingly secure border.

We are being directly and cynically lied to by this administration. The reason she can say that apprehensions are down is that she has ordered the Border Patrol to stop apprehending people.

If we are not willing to put a wall on the border, we should be capturing all we can, put them to work cleaning highways and other manual labor for 3-6 months, then put on a bus back to Mexico - but not to a town just across the border, send the bus down to Mexico City. Hell, with the labor they provide during their incarceration we could even justify chartering an aircraft to make the flight.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
The reason she can say that apprehensions are down is that she has ordered the Border Patrol to stop apprehending people.

Based on what proof?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
sccutler
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
Based on what proof?

Based upon whatever proof the author of the cited article has in his or her research, I would imagine.
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Maverick623
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:34 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
The reason she can say that apprehensions are down is that she has ordered the Border Patrol to stop apprehending people.

The Border Patrol and other agencies have most likely stopped arresting mere illegals for two reasons:

1) They're focusing on the drug trafficking (which they're still sucking at)

2) The system is overwhelmed with illegals as it is.

I agree it's slimy to say border crossings are down based on that, but that's just politics: playing the statistics out of context to suit their own agenda.

I seriously doubt this TBS order comes from the top.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:59 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
Based on what proof?
Quoting sccutler (Reply 5):

Based upon whatever proof the author of the cited article has in his or her research, I would imagine.

Correct. Multiple sources are cited.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
I agree it's slimy to say border crossings are down based on that, but that's just politics: playing the statistics out of context to suit their own agenda.

It's the executive branch refusing to enforce the laws they are sworn to uphold - not by omission, negligence or incompetance, which are bad enough but not criminal. Instead they are deliberately thwarting a mission expressly provided by the Constitution, for which congress has authorized funds to implement.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
I seriously doubt this TBS order comes from the top.
Quote:
Bonner said Border Patrol agents are receiving “TBS” orders from someone higher up, but he isn’t sure who.

“Agents don’t just do this on their own. The orders must come from on high. They don’t just wake up one day and say I’m going to risk my job, my livelihood,” said Bonner, who retired last year after 32 years with Border Patrol. “I’m not sure if it’s Napolitano or folks in Customs and Border Protection, but somebody wants to silence critics in Arizona to claim success in Arizona.”

Why would any lower or mid-level bureaucrat give such orders? There is no reason I can think of. However there are plenty of political justifications available, and those come from either elected officials or political appointments.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:10 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):

If we are not willing to put a wall on the border, we should be capturing all we can, put them to work cleaning highways and other manual labor for 3-6 months, then put on a bus back to Mexico - but not to a town just across the border, send the bus down to Mexico City. Hell, with the labor they provide during their incarceration we could even justify chartering an aircraft to make the flight.

You want to build a wall?

How about eliminating jus soil? That will stop a good portion of it. How about enforcing some laws about people employing them? That will stop the rest. And it will cost a lot less than walls. Walls can be flown over, tunneled under, or boated around.
-Doc Lightning-

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Maverick623
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):

Correct. Multiple sources are cited.

  

Not a single source has said anything remotely resembling this statement:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
she has ordered the Border Patrol to stop apprehending people.

That is your view on what is going on. Sure, it may be the case, but it's not a provable fact. Even you diluted it down to a meaningless accusation against an entire branch of the government:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):

It's the executive branch refusing to enforce the laws they are sworn to uphold - not by omission, negligence or incompetance, which are bad enough but not criminal. Instead they are deliberately thwarting a mission expressly provided by the Constitution, for which congress has authorized funds to implement.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
ltbewr
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:16 am

I would suggest that one reason for the alleged reduction of apprehension of those entering the USA via the border with Mexico, is that apprehension means tying up agents to process those captured rather than on the border to protect it. The Border Patrol has limited resources due to conflicting politics. In a sound policy, we should be able to have our military protect our borders, not just a 'Border Control' special police force as well as comprehensive immigration and labor law reforms.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:10 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
ow about eliminating jus soil? That will stop a good portion of it. How about enforcing some laws about people employing them? That will stop the rest. And it will cost a lot less than walls. Walls can be flown over, tunneled under, or boated around.

Have to agree..You can build all the fences you want but if the demand is here they will come..Stop the demand and problem will solve itself. Problem is there is no intestinal fortitude to hold businesses accountable and stick some real fines and sanctions to those who employ illegals.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:58 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
This, really. I think everyone can agree that it's hopeless to assume, that the illegals can be discouraged from seeking to enter the US.

Start shooting them, that would stop a lot, those that don't end up dead.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:48 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
The Border Patrol and other agencies have most likely stopped arresting mere illegals for two reasons:

1) They're focusing on the drug trafficking (which they're still sucking at)

2) The system is overwhelmed with illegals as it is.

  

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
I seriously doubt this TBS order comes from the top.

Big Sis discussed this on FoxNews last week.
 
AGM100
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:05 pm

It is escalating .... no question (Not via this video ... just being in the mountains myself and talking TO border patrol). These mountains are where me and my son hunt . We have seen groups like this in the mountains I have also seen groups like this staging up on the Mexico side preparing for the passage. A anti US group could build up a nice little "army" within our borders in a matter of months at these rates. I still believe the people for the most part are looking for a better life , but the Cartels and whoever else can easily get agents into the US via these smuggling trails .

It will never stop . Short of "lethal" infiltration interdiction measures as a deterrent we are helpless to stop it. BP sees them via predator and other airborne platforms but as I was told they just cant get to them all. Short of attacking them with weapons and making it to dangerous to pass we are helpless to stop it. I don't advocate that .... so we sit here and watch the numbers grow and grow .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KcwIy_fQuU
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:07 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
1) They're focusing on the drug trafficking (which they're still sucking at)

Now if someone was enlightened enough to realises that the war on drugs has been a complete failure, and that making drugs illegal is the problem not the cure, now if drugs were legalised, policed and provided to users in safe locations at prices cheaper than the crap on the street a lot of the problem and crime associated with drugs would be gone. At a stroke you would get a nice big tax bump, and stop the gangs in there tracks.

This would then free up a lot of police manpower to be put towards other issues like catching and evicting illegals.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:32 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 2):
I think everyone can agree that it's hopeless to assume, that the illegals can be discouraged from seeking to enter the US.

Israel seems to have found a solution for their borders, such as electric fences, land mines, etc. I know it's not the best solution, but it would definitely discourage many for even attempting to cross.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 4):
Based on what proof?
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
Not a single source has said anything remotely resembling this statement:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...illegals-fall-dramatically/?page=1

No matter which way you cut it, something very fishy is going on here.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 6):
The Border Patrol and other agencies have most likely stopped arresting mere illegals for two reasons:

1) They're focusing on the drug trafficking (which they're still sucking at)

2) The system is overwhelmed with illegals as it is.

Time to get the politics out of the way and let the Border Patrol do their jobs.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
Now if someone was enlightened enough to realises that the war on drugs has been a complete failure, and that making drugs illegal is the problem not the cure, now if drugs were legalised, policed and provided to users in safe locations at prices cheaper than the crap on the street a lot of the problem and crime associated with drugs would be gone.

You honestly think the drug cartels are going to give up that drug money?
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
mham001
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
How about enforcing some laws about people employing them?
Quoting stratosphere (Reply 11):
Problem is there is no intestinal fortitude to hold businesses accountable and stick some real fines and sanctions to those who employ illegals.

It's quite simple and already in place, ready to go. E-Verify.

Employers today cannot tell the difference between good and bad papers but could get on the computer and instantly verify SS#.

The problem is, liberals are very much against it and have it tied up in courts.
 
AGM100
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
The problem is, liberals are very much against it and have it tied up in courts.



I actually watched a defence house committee hearing on C Span a few years ago ... the issue was construction appropriations for Naval bases on the east coast. The democrats( majority) on the committee actually cut off a amendment added by the republicans that all workers must be "E verified". As one of the democrats said .. "the republicans are just trying to "slow the process by adding this amendment to the bill".

So do we now have unverified construction workers working on submarine bases in the US ...?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Border Patrol Agents Stop Apprehending Illegals?

Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:12 pm

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 16):

You honestly think the drug cartels are going to give up that drug money?

If it's supplied at dirt cheap prices or even free via prescription to registered users and controlled what will the drug cartels be able to do? The only reason why the cartels are involved or even exist is because some twits decided to make drugs illegal, as it currently stands consumers get poor quality product at sky high prices which makes illegal supply highly profitable.

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