comorin
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Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:00 am

Looks like the Man of Steel is renouncing his US Citizenship before the UN in next Wednesday's Action Comics. Oh well, he was an immigrant anyway. Now what prompted him to do the unthinkable? Not much fun hanging around the Fortress of Solitude all by yourself...
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:48 am

If this was 1958 I think more people would take notice.

It's a cartoon. If "he" declared himself a member of the taliban I wouldn't care.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:54 am

My level of care on this subject is just enough to warrant this reply: whoopdeefreakingdoo!
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:54 am

You just know, he will change his mind, part of the story line, I am sure. Eye catcher headline, can Spiderman be far behind?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Confuscius
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:17 am

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
Looks like the Man of Steel is renouncing his US Citizenship

Maybe his birth certificate was a fake...or it wasn't the long form that he presented.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 4):
Quoting comorin (Thread starter):Looks like the Man of Steel is renouncing his US Citizenship
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 4):
Maybe his birth certificate was a fake...or it wasn't the long form that he presented.



Very good, be careful though, you will have the righties after you, even Superman can be suspect, no one is above reproach.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Arrow
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:09 am

He's doing it for tax reasons. And because of that, the State Department won't recognize it. Once the IRS has its hooks into you, it never lets go.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:15 am

He was born on Krypton to Kryptonian parents (Kryptonish? Kryptoni? Kryptonese? Kryptonite?... no, that's not right), so actually he's not a valid U.S. citizen.

Where's his long-form COLB, anyway?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
tu204
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:05 am

BS.
Unless he retained his Kryptonian citizenship, he can't renounce his US citizenship prior to taking another as it will leave him without citizenship of any nation.
As to how he got US citizenship...either naturalisation, fake marriage or presidential decree?

P.S. I don't read comics, just found the thread funny.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Zentraedi
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:11 am

Too bad he still has to keep paying taxes to the IRS for 10 years even if he does live outside of the US.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:48 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 6):
He's doing it for tax reasons. And because of that, the State Department won't recognize it. Once the IRS has its hooks into you, it never lets go.

I know a family where the man is American and the wife is European, and they live overseas. She inherited a lot of money from her father, all earned 50+ years ago. They never declared that money to the IRS under the justification that it was all earned and spent outside of the US, but now the IRS is after them and trying to take at least half of her fortune in tax and penalties, thanks to a new law that Dick Durbin and Carl Levin pushed through in the early days of the Obama presidency. I think it's sickening.

The US is no longer the country we grew up with.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Where's his long-form COLB, anyway?

Got destroyed in the registry of Krypton, I think. But with what visa did he immigrate into the United States? H-1B - for especially skilled workers? Or S-5/6 - aliens assisting law enforcement? I just hope he's not an illegal immigrant who got his citizenship through some dark way !
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
Zentraedi
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:58 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
I know a family where the man is American and the wife is European, and they live overseas. She inherited a lot of money from her father, all earned 50+ years ago. They never declared that money to the IRS under the justification that it was all earned and spent outside of the US, but now the IRS is after them and trying to take at least half of her fortune in tax and penalties, thanks to a new law that Dick Durbin and Carl Levin pushed through in the early days of the Obama presidency. I think it's sickening.

The US is no longer the country we grew up with.

Ugh, that makes sick. Still, you can't really say "The US is no longer the country we grew up with." The US Government and IRS have been doing similar nonsense forever. Obama had nothing to do with the whole double taxation of foreign income for expats and requirement to keep paying the IRS for years after you renounce US citizenship.
 
comorin
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:09 pm

Would Clark Kent change his citizenship at the same time too? Lois would have a field day with that!
 
bohica
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:06 pm

Superman is getting a bad rap. Nobody is able to cure Donald Trump's bad hair day.
 
Arrow
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
The US is no longer the country we grew up with.

You can't blame Obama for this one. The US has for decades taken the position that US citizens are required to file an annual tax return with the IRS forever, regardless of where you live, what citizenship you now hold, or your intention to never return to the US. You can get out of this by formally renouncing your citizenship, but that's when the Catch 22 shows up. If the State Department decides that an expat's decision to renounce citizenship is for tax purposes only (which is the case 99% of the time) they won't recognize it until you've "caught up" with the IRS and filed all those "delinquent" tax returns.

The apologists for this "taxation without representation" policy argue that the IRS credits you with the tax you've paid in your home country, and it won't cost you money. But that's bogus, because the IRS applies, naturally, US tax rules on what kinds of income are taxable. Example: Canada doesn't tax gambling wins (unless you are a professional gambler), but the US does. If the IRS finds out you won the jackpot in Vegas, they'll tax you. Capital gains are also treated differently.

My wife is American born, but has been a Canadian citizen for 40 years. She has no intention of moving south, or claiming any US benefits (e.g. social security, voting privileges), but found out a few years ago that the IRS expected her to file an annual tax return for the last 40 years. Needless to say, she isn't going to do that (she's offended by the principle), having paid taxes in Canada for the income she earned in Canada. She now gets nervous every time we cross the border for a vacation or to visit family, because there have been a few horror stories of expats getting nailed for tax evasion when a border agent asks the right question.

This needs to change. But Obama didn't do it. I have no idea what the Durbin/Levin thing is, but this stuff has been going on for a long, long time.

Good luck, Superman
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
comorin
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:44 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 14):
Superman is getting a bad rap. Nobody is able to cure Donald Trump's bad hair day.

Is Donald = Lex Luthor?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):

The US is no longer the country we grew up with.

Dude, we're talking about Superman and whether his Kryptonese COLB is valid.

And you had to get all serious about it.

Were you born with congenital absence of the "risus" muscle? The one that lets you smile?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
comorin
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Dude, we're talking about Superman and whether his Kryptonese COLB is valid.

I happen to know his Dad was Marlon Brando so that makes him a US Citizen.

[Edited 2011-04-29 11:02:40]
 
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Aesma
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:56 pm

He's right, Superman should be a citizen of the world and provide help everywhere, not just in Gotham City or whatever !

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
I know a family where the man is American and the wife is European, and they live overseas. She inherited a lot of money from her father, all earned 50+ years ago. They never declared that money to the IRS under the justification that it was all earned and spent outside of the US, but now the IRS is after them and trying to take at least half of her fortune in tax and penalties, thanks to a new law that Dick Durbin and Carl Levin pushed through in the early days of the Obama presidency. I think it's sickening.

The US is no longer the country we grew up with.

Did she declare it in her country and pay taxes there, or maybe forgot about that, too ? Anyway, I thought the US was all about starting from scratch to become rich, not inheritance, that's so old fashioned !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
fridgmus
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:15 pm

Anybody know what the immigration laws of Krypton are? I was just thinking about how maybe, just maybe, with Doc Lightning's help, I might be able to get some of those powers that Superman has and find my own Supergirl!

It would be cool to fly to work, I might even sell my Harley..........maybe!

Just thinkin' that's all!
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 15):
You can't blame Obama for this one. The US has for decades taken the position that US citizens are required to file an annual tax return with the IRS forever, regardless of where you live, what citizenship you now hold, or your intention to never return to the US.

While Obama signed it, Durban/Levin pushed through the Act (I forget what it's called). They've wanted to do this for years. I read a summary provided by KPMG. It basically requires that all foreign financial institutions (banks, investment firms, whatever) report directly to the US government the names and account information of all "US Persons", which includes citizens of course, but also spouses of citizens, people who have a green card or any kind of long term visa to the US. Basically anyone who has ever been issued a Social Security number.

The financial institutions are required to provide account balances and revenue information all the way back to 2003. Their deadline to report is April 30st of this year. Failure to report means that the US government may confiscate the US assets of the institution (in the case of banks like UBS or HSBC, those numbers would be in the hundreds of billions of dollars).

If the "US person" has not come forward and declared himself to the IRS this year, and his reported assets don't match what the overseas institutions have reported on him, the next time he tries to enter the US he will be stopped at the airport. Average prison terms are expected to be at least 5 years.

If he goes ahead and 'comes clean', and reports his overseas assets, He will be charged a 25% penalty off of his existing balance, across the board. Then he has to pay income tax plus interest on his earnings since 2003. But wait, there's more...

The IRS will calculate income tax on the highest performing year of those 8 years. So let's say that in your overseas account, you started with $200,000 in capital, earned $10,000 per year for all years, except for one year when you earned $40,000, and then you lost half your investments in the 2008 crash. So lets say you have, at the end of 2010, $150,000 of capital left (picking up the pieces after the market crash). The IRS will charge you on the $40,000 income for 8 years, $320,000 in total, plus interest. Your losses or years where you earned less money are NOT taken into account to reduce your exposure.

The intention is quite simple - they want to wipe out these people. I can sort of understand that motivation if the person earned his money in the US and tried to hide it, but they are also going after the fortunes of people who had the poor judgment of marrying an American, and where none of the money was earned in or invested in the US.

My many friends who live overseas, some of whom are American, and my old collegues in the Swiss banks (I worked in Credit Suisse 20-odd years ago) tell me that Americans looking to establish a new bank account are being told "No thanks, we don't want the problems you will bring us. I know personally people who banked at UBS or Credit Suisse who were called in to visit the head office, unceremoniously given their money in cash and told to go away and not come back. One of those is the widow of an American citizen, and her family (her father was an industrialist) had banked at Credit Suisse for 80 years. She now has cash in her apartment, the remains of her father's inheritance, She has not found another bank to take it, and Credit Suisse let her know that they will be reporting her 2003-2010 financials to the IRS and she can expect to lose at least half of everything.

So basically, Swiss banking secrecy is no more - it's gone, as far as the US is concerned. I'm pretty sure it had something to do as payback for all the money the Fed lent to Credit Suisse and UBS during TARP. The Germans, French, British and Italians will see that and push for the same disclosure.

Hand-on-heart, I've heard this from 1st person accounts. This is what's going on right now.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
Did she declare it in her country and pay taxes there, or maybe forgot about that, too ? Anyway, I thought the US was all about starting from scratch to become rich, not inheritance, that's so old fashioned !


Yes, as far as I know it was all after-tax money. And there is nothing wrong with inheriting money that your parents worked for. Surely they would rather the money go to their children rather than the government which already taxed it?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
D L X
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:31 pm

What the hell does Obama have to do with Superman?
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:37 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
http://alexlod.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/why-so-serious.jpeg

Quoting comorin (Reply 16):
Is Donald = Lex Luthor?

Lex has better hair.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Geezer
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 15):
If the IRS finds out you won the jackpot in Vegas, they'll tax you. Capital gains are also treated differently.

Your post is quite true, but there is one "in-accuracy" in it...................it's not "if" the IRS finds out............It's "WHEN" the IRS finds out.........

If you win more than 15 cents in Vegas, the IRS knows about it at the same time YOU know about it, and they get "their cut" before you get "your cut" !

There are more IRS guys in Vegas than there are hookers and they keep track of every dime that gets paid out as "winnings".
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
Arrow
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
Hand-on-heart, I've heard this from 1st person accounts. This is what's going on right now.

Wow. I had no idea it was that bad. I wonder how many of these horror stories fit the "unintended consequences" pattern that comes from poorly thought out legislation. A noble attempt to get at some bad actors collects a huge by-catch of innocent bystanders -- and the IRS with its usual "don't give a s**t" attitude just steamrollers them indiscriminately. There's a lesson here: don't ever get entangled financially with the US unless you plan to live out your days there.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Sun May 01, 2011 12:21 am

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
Now what prompted him to do the unthinkable?

Got to be taxes. There is no reason whatsoever for a multinational to keep its headquarters in the U.S, just as there is no reason for someone who earns their living all over the world (by saving it) to do the same.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):

Hand-on-heart, I've heard this from 1st person accounts. This is what's going on right now

I know someone who studied in a boarding school in Geneve during high school 10 years ago. She had a checking account at the Postal Bank with roughly 500 Swiss Francs (approximately the same amount in USD) that she used for spending money while there and she never bothered to close out. Recently she got a very nasty letter from the IRS threatening to sue her and make her pay "damages" for 10 years of "unreported foreign accounts" if she did not close it. Her aunt, who made a career at the UN in Geneve but is a US citizen, can never return to her country because if she does the US government will take a third of her retirement fund (the equivalent to an IRA / 401-K) and make it impossible for her to retire. Even though she has lived in Switzerland for decades working for an international institution she cannot get a bank account because every bank refuses to allow her to keep one. The situation is very real indeed.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):
I'm pretty sure it had something to do as payback for all the money the Fed lent to Credit Suisse and UBS during TARP.

I am sure you know this but just wanted to make it clear for everybody else since a lot of people seem to confuse the two things, perhaps intentionally - Credit Suisse and UBS did not take any TARP money (neither did any non-US bank, as far as I am aware). UBS did receive some help from the government of Switzerland, though, which it has since repaid. What UBS and Credit Suisse got was liquidity support, access to (secured) funding in USD through the Fed discount window during the peak of the crisis. Contrary to the opinion of some people, this is not a "bailout". On the contrary, this is exactly what the discount window was created to be - a lender of last resort in the case of a severe liquidity crisis. The European Central Bank does not disclose individual bank data, but if they did I am sure you would find out the European subsidiaries of US banks used the ECB discount window as well (and that's OK).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Sun May 01, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 27):
What UBS and Credit Suisse got was liquidity support, access to (secured) funding in USD through the Fed discount window during the peak of the crisis.

You are correct, I did mix the two up. I consider the fed action to be little more than TARP 2.0.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
nonrevman
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Sun May 01, 2011 2:34 am

Actually, Superman is leaving due to the individual mandate required by the illustrious "Affordable Health Care Act". He anticipates the liberal Supreme Court stomping the 10th amendment to uphold the law as constitutional. Why does this bother him? Because he does not need health care! He found out that he will have to pay a tax penalty if he does not purchase health care. His job at the Daily Planet really does not pay that much, and he is a bit upset that he will not be able so send as much money back home to Ma Kent in Smallville after he gets fined for not buying insurance. Therefore, he is seeking greener pastures.....
 
comorin
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RE: Superman Gives Up US Citizenship

Sun May 01, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting nonrevman (Reply 29):
Therefore, he is seeking greener pastures.....

Unfortunately the only thing that can make him ill is green...

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