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DocLightning
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Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 7:53 am

I argue it's Toyota. They have a reputation for excellent and stringent quallity. Two decade-old Toyota vehicles are still running without a hitch. They also design vehicles that work well within their mission. Their trucks are tough, their commuter cars smooth and quiet. And they cover a large portion of the market nicely, from the lower-end Scion marketed at the young, to the mid-range Toyota brand, to the luxury Lexus brand, Toyota has dominated the market and in my opinion, they are the company to be beat... and feared.

What do you think?
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signol
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 7:59 am

I agree, Toyota. They also have interoperability of parts accross the range, from Corolla to Hiace van.
My only problem, is that I don't like the way some of the smaller cars look!

signol
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na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:49 am

A manufacturer who isnt able do design cars so they look good cant be the best. So, Toyota cant be best. In design and elegance they even belong way down on such a list. But on the boring car list they are high up. Toyota builds good cars for ordinary people who look for nothing else but for something that brings them from A to B, and that for a long time. I agree that Toyota may build cars that last, but otherwise I dont see anything to place them among the best.

Imho there is no "best manufacturer" anyway because thats a matter of definition. And people have different priorities.
Example: there is a brand which builds longlasting, in general good-looking cars that go like hell - Porsche. If they wouldnd fail miserably in terms of affordability and the notorious gas-guzzling of their SUVs they might well be the best.
 
Superfly
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:55 am

Ford.




I've always been happy with their cars.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:00 am

Any German brand: Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porche and WW
 
Springbok747
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:16 am

An automobile should have passion, style, and soul. Toyotas have none of those, because they don't have any style, they weren't built with pride and passion. These things are the automotive equivalent of an appliance and don't evoke the same feelings that an old Jeep or Mustang evokes.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):
Any German brand: Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porche and WW

  

Nothing beats German engineering and they certainly build some very good looking cars. Personally, I'm very biased towards Mercedes Benz.
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na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:23 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 5):
An automobile should have passion, style, and soul. Toyotas have none of those, because they don't have any style, they weren't built with pride and passion. These things are the automotive equivalent of an appliance and don't evoke the same feelings that an old Jeep or Mustang evokes.

Well said.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 5):
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):
Any German brand: Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porche and WW
Nothing beats German engineering and they certainly build some very good looking cars. Personally, I'm very biased towards Mercedes Benz.

That probably comes as close as possible. Taken everything in account, I´d say nowadays the German car industry builds the best cars. Unaffordable for 50% of car buyers worldwide, though.
 
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cpd
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:27 am

Mercedes Benz has been one of the most consistent - and they were the first.

Otherwise, I think Pagani is building the "best" cars at the moment. Exquisite engineering without compromise. Who cares about cost.   He builds cars with pride, passion and careful attention to detail.

Open up the back of a Zonda Cinque - how could anyone not be impressed by that sight?
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 10:10 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):
Any German brand: Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porche and WW

Forgot to add Opel and Maybach  
 
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cpd
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 10:29 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Maybach

The problem with them is not the engineering and luxury, that's fine. But it's too close to a really expensive Mercedes. I wonder what the new ones will be like - if there are any new ones? I don't imagine they'll build DS8 models again with modern technology?  

That's where Rolls Royce is better. They have BMW technology, but they are nothing like a BMW.

I hope Maybach can find a way to re-establish itself at the top of the standings again.  

Another manufacturer I forgot about is McLaren. They've been very consistently building great cars.   When the F1 arrived, it made everything else seem prehistoric. It was so fast overall that people thought that maybe nobody will build a quicker car. Eventually after a very long time and a problematic development cycle, Veyron did go faster - but only in a straight line I suspect. Now it seems like the new MP4-12C from McLaren has again taken a huge leap forward.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 10:46 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Forgot to add Opel

I had a good laugh on that.
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rlwynn
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 11:17 am

Porsche has to be the best car manufacture. I do not think anybody else is close. They are the top of the ladder in the auto world.
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racko
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 11:21 am

Toyota? I especially like the Toyota Bland, the Toyota Average, the Toyota Boring and of course their new bestseller, the Toyota Dull. Not to forget the new star of their luxury brand, the Lexus Lackluster.

Quoting cpd (Reply 7):
Mercedes Benz has been one of the most consistent - and they were the first.

If I want a Mercedes, I'm calling a cab.

BMW.

[Edited 2011-05-01 04:26:34]
 
na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting racko (Reply 12):
Toyota? I especially like the Toyota Bland, the Toyota Average, the Toyota Boring and of course their new bestseller, the Toyota Dull. Not to forget the new star of their luxury brand, the Lexus Lackluster.

There are so many dull people with average demands and bland taste out there, no wonder those lackluster cars sell!

Quoting racko (Reply 12):
If I want a Mercedes, I'm calling a cab.

BMW.

 
 
IH8BY
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 12:01 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 11):
Porsche has to be the best car manufacture. I do not think anybody else is close. They are the top of the ladder in the auto world.

For what?

Indeed, that's a fair question about the whole thread. Porsche doesn't build practical cars for the family that have low emissions and good fuel economy. Opel doesn't make an excellent luxury sporting car that will hold its value well for years. Best can mean many things, and that could be biggest/most prestigious/most stylish/whatever. Maybe it's more a question of what we like and what we respect.

Toyota, for example, makes an excellent range of well-made cars that sell well the world over. I still probably wouldn't aspire to own any of them. I'm not a petrolhead either, so I'm not going to be seen drooling over a V12 engine, no matter how many bhp it has or how beautiful the engine apparently looks; there's probably as much genius in the little 1.2 TSI found across the VW range. I used to drive a Skoda. Skoda are renowned in the UK for quality cars, fair pricing, and excellent customer service. The owning experience is superb. Yet many people on this board would never own a Skoda.

A word about quality: we have to be careful about what comes down to perception. Look at the reliability indices compiled by independent warranty firms (accepting that these surveys have limitations); contrary to reputations, you'll find some German cars near the bottom of the list, and some French cars near the top.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 12:32 pm

Oh goodie, this thread will turn into flame fest very quickly. Allow me to fan the coals   

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I argue it's Toyota.

If you have a penchant for driving around in something as agile as an elephant on ice skates, an interior built out of recycled dildos, styled by someone who's either brain dead or blind, and all things considered overpriced for what you get, then sure, I could see that. And I feel the same way for all asian brands, specially the Korean ones.

And also might I add I know plenty of people with very old asian cars and they swear by them because they are "indestructible" and will supposedly last them another million miles. And sure, while the engine itself may be just fine, in all these cars the interior is falling apart, there's a nasty vibration or noise coming from the drive train, half of the electricals don't work, it won't drive straight, there's rust on the body panels, etc etc. Well built my ass  

Subaru is the only Asian brand I respect, the interiors still don't impress me but the rest of the car is mostly on par with a VW, which is a good thing. And their boxer engines are excellent.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 4):
Any German brand: Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porche and WW

              

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Ford.

              
 
CXB77L
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 12:34 pm

I agree with the call on German cars - Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, and Volkswagen. I'm also partial to Mercedes-Benz but I wouldn't mind any of the above brands.
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na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 12:41 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 14):
contrary to reputations, you'll find some German cars near the bottom of the list, and some French cars near the top.

I dont believe these statistics as none are truly independent. "Some" German cars may be the bottom, and "some" frech near the top, but overall the opposite is true.


Quoting IH8BY (Reply 14):
Toyota, for example, makes an excellent range of well-made cars that sell well the world over.

They sell well, because they fullfill the average mans needs to go from A to B without much trouble. Excellent they are in this respect, sure, but overall they are not excellent, because they dont look excellent, and they dont feel excellent. They are, sorry, so bland and ordinary I dont bother looking at them more than I need to in traffic.
 
Speedbird741
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 12:48 pm

Mercedes-Benz and no chance of saying otherwise. Jeep also make great, lasting cars.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Toyota has dominated the market and in my opinion, they are the company to be beat... and feared.

Well, Toyota better watch Hyundai very closely as they are being extremely aggressive at the moment in trying to place every Toyota driver behind a Hyundai's wheel. And they have built a fantastic generation of cars let me tell you.

Speedbird741

[Edited 2011-05-01 06:12:44]
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richm
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 1:20 pm

I'd say BMW is definitely a contender. They're typically well built, well engineered and very reliable. What more can you ask for? :P Not only that, but you have the added touch of luxury. They're certainly not a Bentley or a Rolls Royce, but definitely a step above from your average run of the mill car. My BMW was 10 years old when I had it, yet it still had many of the mod cons that you don't always find on brand new cars today. (Weather warning system, on board computer, cruise control, climate control, stability control, just to name a few...)

I had a BMW 3 series for 5 years and in that time, I never have a single problem even though the car had over 100k miles on the clock. I now have a newer Land Rover, with fewer miles on the clock and I've had nothing but problems with it. Next time I buy a car, I know what I will be getting.

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[Edited 2011-05-01 06:31:18]
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 1:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
What do you think?

I think I'd have to do a lot of test driving to accurately tell you anything. I have a penchant for Renault/Ferrari/Alfa Romeo/Lamborghini/Lotus/Land Rover but different cars for different purposes in different conditions.... Whereas my favourite and therefore 'the best' car might be a Ferrari lightweight of some sort like the Stradale/Scuderia, sometimes I might need to park/drive slowly in central london or other times I might want to cross the Sahara.

There aren't any manufacturers that don't make at least one ugly, inpractical, pointless vehicle. Some like BMW make many (some like the X6 fit all off the above), but that doesn't detract from the good cars they make.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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cpd
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 14):
and good fuel economy

On that note, the best car in the world must be the Volkswagen XL1:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/100836/volkswagen-xl1/

Over 300mpg, so they suggest. And on the older version of the concept, they reckoned about 1.8L/100km with the car doing 100mph, which is still brilliant. It probably drives quite poorly, surely only for city driving at moderate speeds, but then with our strict speed limits - that's all you'd need. And it'd probably be super-cheap to run as well.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 2:05 pm

The question is way to vague. Clearly it depends on what you value. I place very high value on reliability and resale value. That pretty much eliminates American and German cars. I love several German cars in terms of design and performance, but they aren't reliable and lose value quickly.

Honda and Toyota, although they aren't exciting, are sure bets.
 
bill142
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 2:26 pm

The question is highly ambiguous. There are many ways the 'best' manufacturer can be measured. Are we talking build quality, engineering, design, efficiency or simply an all rounder? Many of the brand mentioned here and had good and bad models over the years, be they build issues, design or whatever. There are also clearly peoples personal preferences are coming into play here. For someone who's had good experiences over the years with one brand, there will be another who would speak the opposite.

So in answer to the question. There is no answer.
 
na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 22):
I place very high value on reliability and resale value. That pretty much eliminates American and German cars.

German cars are known for being reliable and having a high resale value for a long time, so how do you come to the opposite opinion? Hondas and Toyotas loose value quicker. Those dull Japanese cars can only be sold to dull people looking for a bargain, when getting older.

But anyway, reliability is a value I also find important, but which is in no way decisive for me when buying a car. There are few cars which are truly unreliable nowadays. Resale value isnt very important to me as I do not change cars often.

My car should look much better than average, must be affordable and it shouldnt be ubiquitous in the first place. All other things come second for me. And thats why dont drive a German car in Germany.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 2:43 pm

There is no best manufacturer but my favorites are:
Dodge
Mercury

Our 1999 Dodge minivan is still running great, it's reliable, and I love driving it (yes, a guy driving a minivan). The only problem is MPG.

I've had good experiences with Mercury. The Milan and Mariner are fantastic cars that I love driving and they have great MPG. I hope our new Mariner will last a long time.

I haven't had my license not even a year so I don't have much experience in other cars besides my family's cars. But my least favorite manufacturer based on experience is Nissan. My family's 1996 Maxima failed to get me to point B twice, it doesn't feel comfortable, I don't feel safe in it, its boring looking, and it runs terrible in snow. When my family was in the Bahamas the rental house owner had a Nissan station wagon type car we could use to drive around. I don't know the year of the car but it looked like from the late 80s. Long story short, I never want to see that car again.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 2:52 pm

Just FYI my opinions are based on the all-around point of view and from personal experience. I've certainly driven tens of thousands more miles than the average 26 year old and driven hundreds of different cars from pretty much every category, heck I wouldn't be surprised if I have more lifetime driving mileage than the average 50 year old. I'm certainly not the ultimate motoring authority but that's where I'm coming from, but I do appreciate cars in general. Whereas 99.999% of the people out there don't give a rats ass for cars as long as it gets the from point A to B.
 
JAL
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:00 pm

Have always own Nissan all my life have to say Nissan!
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columba
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 pm

Powell Motors  
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flight152
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I argue it's Toyota


Their cars are uninspired, anonymous driving appliances. Their quality has declined and have floaty, dumb steering. I'd argue they are one of the WORST brands.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:27 pm

For the more affordable cars, I'd have to say Subaru- the build quality is much better than any Toyota, Honda, etc. The Outback is a great car, for not a lot of money. Then they also have the STI, which is an amazing car; Subbie gets my vote.

For the more expensive cars, I'd say BMW- I'm a fan of almost all their cars (X6 is crap... anyone see the TopGear review on the car?) they get good gas mileage, their reliable, they look good...

Both automakers build good cars. Toyota builds decent cars- they are reliable and cheap to operate. But that does not mean I'd get one- like I said, I'd rather get a Subaru. The rest of Asian automakers are really the same as Toyota. (WIth the possible exception of Mitsubishi, the Evo is a great car.)
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bill142
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 28):

The Homer was an almighty machine and at $82000 was a bargain too  
 
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Aesma
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 3:39 pm

I'm not sure why Toyota makes bland cars but Audi is praised ? All Audis look the same (aside from the TT/R8 obviously), to the point you have trouble identifying a model/generation.

As for the question, best car for what ? If you have kids, the best car will probably be a comfy minivan with good fuel economy for all the runs to the kid's activities, but it will undoubtedly not win any style competition.

If you're single and like driving then a small roadster.

If you must park in Paris : a smart or IQ (or a moped).

If you have a chauffeur : an executive car, let's say a Citroën C6.

If you want to show off : can't go wrong with Ferrari.

Midlife crisis car : Porsche.

Etc.
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PPVRA
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 4:18 pm

Toyotas are incredibly reliable and economic. But they do indeed lack the fun factor. But to get that you have to sacrifice the economic factor and go with a BMW.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 5:07 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 29):
I'd argue they are one of the WORST brands.

Perhaps, but still lightyears ahead of anything that comes out of Detroit.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 32):
I'm not sure why Toyota makes bland cars but Audi is praised ? All Audis look the same (aside from the TT/R8 obviously), to the point you have trouble identifying a model/generation.

ditto for VW. There is no Polo, Golf or Passat anymore. Just smaller Golf, Golf and bigger Golf.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 15):

And also might I add I know plenty of people with very old asian cars and they swear by them because they are "indestructible" and will supposedly last them another million miles. And sure, while the engine itself may be just fine, in all these cars the interior is falling apart, there's a nasty vibration or noise coming from the drive train, half of the electricals don't work, it won't drive straight, there's rust on the body panels, etc etc. Well built my ass

Yanno, it's made of protons, neutrons, and electrons. So the pieces will start to fall apart if they get 20 years old. Few other cars get to be 20 years old, so you don't see other cars looking that beat up.

I know that to you a car is worthless unless it growls like a tiger and eats up six tons of fuel per block.

And, to be fair, my father owned a 1984 Porsche 944 (which he claimed I would inherit... and then he sold it). My friend in high school had a Celica. I drove both cars and I have to say that the Celica was a close match. Toyota does make sports cars and they do a very good job of it.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 22):
The question is way to vague.
Quoting bill142 (Reply 23):
The question is highly ambiguous.

That was on purpose, you silly geeses! If it were specific, there'd be a clear answer and no interesting discussion to be had.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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mham001
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 22):
The question is way to vague. Clearly it depends on what you value.
Quoting bill142 (Reply 23):
So in answer to the question. There is no answer.

Those two already answered the thread.

Quoting na (Reply 24):

German cars are known for being reliable and having a high resale value for a long time, so how do you come to the opposite opinion?

That may have been so once upon a time but there is plenty of evidence that has changed. I have owned more German cars than any other. I just sold my last Mercedes and could not get rid of it soon enough. Every repair was $1,000+ and there was too much going wrong all the time. Overall, I really think the Germans go overboard with the engineering. VW has widely become a brand to avoid in the US, especially so with their Made in Mexico models.

I personally like BMW, I own 2 motorcycles and am ready to buy a used 3 series wagon but they are hardly bullet-proof and I know enough to avoid German electronics at all costs, so no fancy stuff. It's interesting on the BMW boards, they tell you all the things the car is known to go wrong at xxx miles but then the next breath tell you the cars are flawless...

Looking at Ford worldwide, they have to rank up there. Even the Top Gear survey put them #1 last year or season prior. If I was buying new in the US, it would be a Ford. Toyota has lost its way.
 
na
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:20 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
Overall, I really think the Germans go overboard with the engineering.

I must agree with you here. Too many assistent systems, too much electronices that eventually will fail. A 60s Mercedes is still worth a lot, a 2011 Mercedes will be worth nothing in 30 years because the electronics wont be controllable in the long term.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
VW has widely become a brand to avoid in the US, especially so with their Made in Mexico models.

I guess only the Mexico models.
Most of my family drives VWs, or mostly Audis to be exact. Big or small, new or old, all of those cars are very reliable.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
I personally like BMW, I own 2 motorcycles and am ready to buy a used 3 series wagon

My sister has just written off her 10 year old 3-series Touring due to multi failures making repairs uneconomic. My Alfa Romeo of the same age is more reliable than that BMW.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):

Yanno, it's made of protons, neutrons, and electrons. So the pieces will start to fall apart if they get 20 years old.

Then please do tell how my mom's 91 VW Passat was in the family for 18 years and the interior up until the very end was in mint condition. IF anything there was some slight crazing on the dash from so many years of it sitting in the desert sun.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
especially so with their Made in Mexico models.

Hogwash. The Mexican Vdubs I've owned have been no worse and were equal in every way to the German ones I've owned. You really think VW would risk their reputation building cars for the worldwide market in a plant that's not up to par to their standards? Right.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:49 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
What do you think?

As a group it would be hard to go past VW, the depth of brands is staggering, every sector from city cars to trucks is covered.

VW, Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, Porsche and MAN with partial ownership of Suzuki and Scania.

If we are talking about who makes the best cars, which I think refers to quality, engineering and general excellence I would say it's a three way tie between Rolls Royce, Bugatti and Pagani.
 
mham001
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RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 8:54 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 38):
Hogwash. The Mexican Vdubs I've owned have been no worse and were equal in every way to the German ones I've owned. You really think VW would risk their reputation building cars for the worldwide market in a plant that's not up to par to their standards? Right.

In past years, it is widely known that the TDI Jetta was the one to buy because the diesel model was made in Germany and quality was noticeably higher than the units from the Mexican factory.

Could be things are better now but if they are so good, why are they consistently near the bottom in JD Powers and just average in CR? Is everybody biased?
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 40):
quality was noticeably higher than the units from the Mexican factory.

Says who? And I don't see how considering the Mexican factory, and all their other factories from that matter, sources almost all their parts from Europe to begin with, to their specifications. There's been a VW in my families garage ever since I was born and the German, Mexican, Argentinian sourced cars were no different in quality or reliability any way.

But I guess this has more to do with the fact that it has the oh-so dreaded words "Made in Mexico" more than anything else, even though Mexico has long proven to have a much MUCH better track record building things than China.     

Quoting mham001 (Reply 40):
Is everybody biased?

It doesn't take much googling to find hundreds and hundreds of posts, articles and opinions from independent reviewers agreeing that they indeed are.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Two decade-old Toyota vehicles are still running without a hitch.

That's because, in 1991, Toyota was certainly the best automaker.  

Today, Toyota is basically a zombie still fed by its 80s-early 90s greatness. For the last 15 years, Toyota has built GM-quality vehicles, nothing more nothing less. They totally abandoned their old quality philosophy and instead bloated their production levels sky high, and stopped innovating.

Many auto journalists think it is just hilarious that the Toyota Camry sells so well. It is probably the worst car in its class -- easily worse than VW, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai... most embarrassingly, the Chevy Malibu and Ford Taurus also outclass the Camry. They are universally regarded as superior products. But the Camry has a great name, because it was the best car of 1993, and it made an impression on millions.

The Prius is neat, though. Otherwise, what are you gonna say... Toyota in 1993 was a great company, and IMO it has been destroyed. They haven't innovated in MANY years, other than Prius. Nor is their Toyota Japanese quality anything like the old days. JMO.

AS TO THE QUESTION AT HAND: BMW. Audi (not including VW) is probably also a co-leader. Those are my 2 picks. I have seen and driven Audi/BMW cars in all states of newness and decay. They are fine machinery. BMW wins for its 3 series alone. I also have a lot of respect for Nissan. Their infiniti products impress.

[Edited 2011-05-01 14:23:30]
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7183
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Two decade-old Toyota vehicles are still running without a hitch


Up here where I live, you could count 20 year old Toyotas on one hand. 20 and even 30 year old VWs on the other hand dominate the roads no question. Not that Toyota doesn't build a reliable long lasting car, but from whats actually on the road (at least in these parts) VW takes the crown on that one.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 41):
Says who? And I don't see how considering the Mexican factory, and all their other factories from that matter, sources almost all their parts from Europe to begin with, to their specifications. There's been a VW in my families garage ever since I was born and the German, Mexican, Argentinian sourced cars were no different in quality or reliability any way.

But I guess this has more to do with the fact that it has the oh-so dreaded words "Made in Mexico" more than anything else, even though Mexico has long proven to have a much MUCH better track record building things than China.


Out of the 4 VWs I've owned, 2 were manufactured in Germany, 1 in Brazil and the other in Mexico. Guess which one has the most squeeks and rattles and pieces falling off?

Anyways, I'd put my money on any of the German manufactures for best worldwide. They're unsurpassed in almost every field of the game. If one thinks performance, luxury, efficiency, value, reliability, quality, re-sale value ... one thinks German.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
mham001
Posts: 4237
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 41):
It doesn't take much googling to find hundreds and hundreds of posts, articles and opinions from independent reviewers agreeing that they indeed are.

I understand plenty of people believe one or the other is biased in some way or another - I do too. When they are all consistent however, then you have to consider that there must be something there.

RL Polk for instance, who conducts surveys solely with the intent of advising the automobile industry. VW has not won a customer loyalty award in 9 years - in any category. Then, it was one model, the GTI. This speaks far louder than any anecdotal evidence on the internet when they can't keep experienced customers.
 
MrChips
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:56 pm

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Sun May 01, 2011 10:56 pm

For me, I would have to say that BMW is probably the best manufacturer overall - and I'm not just saying that because I own two of them.

BMW not only builds a very reliable car, they're also comfortable, thoughtfully-designed, well-packaged machines that are a joy to drive. I like the fact that they have resolutely stuck with inline-6 engines and rear-wheel drive, even after everyone else has abandoned them long ago. That said, I am concerned with what they're getting up to right now; I get the feeling that we're witnessing them just start to lose the plot, as Mercedes did in the mid-1990s (from which they haven't fully recovered from yet either).

Of all the other manufacturers out there, I would have to say that the only ones I have been really impressed with in the last couple of years are Hyundai and Ford. Laugh all you want, both of them are turning out some really remarkable product these days.
Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Mon May 02, 2011 12:31 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 45):
Laugh all you want, both of them are turning out some really remarkable product these days.

True. The new lineup that Ford has is really impressive, especially in the small-car segment, like the Focus and Fiesta.
Hyundai also seem to be building high quality cars nowadays..just drove a new ix35 (rental) and its pretty impressive.

Jeep have also started making high quality vehicles-just look at the new Grand Cherokee and Wranglers..very very nice, especially the diesels.
אני תומך בישראל
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1618
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Mon May 02, 2011 12:42 am

Quoting na (Reply 24):
German cars are known for being reliable and having a high resale value for a long time, so how do you come to the opposite opinion?

Not in the US. I come to the opposite opinion based on data rather than emotion or hearsay. There are specific models that are OK, but as a whole, VW, Audi, Porsche, and Mercedes-Benz are not reliable. BMW has mixed results.

Honda and Toyota are undeniably better in these areas. Even Subaru, Mazda and Nissan are better in terms of reliability.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather drive and RS8 over a Subaru, but based on the sort of things I'm discussing, I wouldn't buy one (even if I could afford it).
 
sccutler
Posts: 5568
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Mon May 02, 2011 1:06 am

"Best." Sp much said in one, four-lettered word.

I agree that the precision of engineering and general reliability of Toyotas is laudable. But the comment above, about twenty-year-old Toyotas is one of the most perceptive comments in the thread. Twenty years ago, Toyota was (along with Honda and, to a lesser extent, Nissan) at the leading edge of the effective use of the highest quality control principles, and the reliability of the cars showed it. They were, then, measurably better than most of their competition.

But I also recall a time when you bought Japanese cars, not because they were good, but rather, because they were really cheap, and you could endure their profound mediocrity (and that God-awful cow-dung smell their interiors had), because, like I said, they were cheap. You could endure glacial acceleration because they were cheap. You could tolerate having to scare up a Ford, Plymouth or Chevy to push-start hem on cold days, because they were cheap.

Then they got better.

Now they're good, but (guess what) they ain't cheap any more!

Meanwhile competitive pressures and market forces being what they are, the competition got better. Experts will tell you that the difference in build quality between most major brands is immeasurable, now. The myth that American workers could not build as good an automobile has been thoroughly destroyed - by Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Subaru - and now, as well, by GM, Ford and (dare I say it?) even Chrysler.

So back to the original question.

If I am buying a car for the purpose of enjoying the actual driving experience, valuing vehicle dynamics over practicality, I am looking at BMW (especially the 3-series, which remain in my mind one of the best bargains on wheels), and (amazingly) the Cadillac CTS. No shit, the CTS. Drive one - they rock.

If I am looking for a recommendation of what car to buy for a 72-year-old aunt, I suggest the Camry, the Accord, the Grand Marquis - cars like those. Really good cars. Novacaine for the soul, but there's a place for such cars.

If I am looking for a truck to do real work, I am suggesting a Super-Duty Ford, or (for gas-powered models) a Chevrolet.

In a big-box utility van, a Mercedes Sprinter is the hot ticket.

If I were shopping for a new car now, I'd seriously consider the Ford Fusion, a seriously good car, in comparison to anyone's product.

My favorite car, right now, is my 1991 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser station wagon which at 132,000 miles or so, is the most amazingly good car I've owned. Everything just works, it starts first and every time, air blows cold, smooth, quiet, handles well (for a behemoth), and on the highway, not so terrible for gas. It sits quietly waiting for me at a distant airfield, I can leave it for months at a time and it always cranks right up.

Best car? Find the cars that do what you want, drive them, and of those you like after driving, choose the one with the best dealer service, because that's what's most likely to affect the quality of your ownership experience. Around here, the Toyota dealers are such a pack of thieves, I could not imagine spending money with them. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: Who Is The Best Car Manufacturer?

Mon May 02, 2011 1:31 am

Personally I reject the notion of a car being for the sole purpose of going from A to B. That's just too limited, since a car is or should be an extension of what you do with your car or what statement you want to make with your car.

For me a good car is silent, responsive, easy to control and maintain and reliable if maintained.

It's really a low bar, IMHO, and yet it's a rarity to find a car that has even the most basic tech such as showing the actual liters of fuel left in the tank - instead of some idiotic arbitrary gauge.

asturias
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