Springbok747
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Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 8:42 am

A gay and lesbian rally against homophobia in Adelaide has ended in violence after it was crashed by Christian protesters, with one person being removed by police. 200 people gathered outside parliament during an initially peaceful rally for the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia in Adelaide, Australia today before members of the Adelaide Street Church showed up waving their “God hates sinners” banner, getting in people’s faces, yelling loudly, and (according to two people) pushing a woman out of her wheelchair.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...christians-clash-at-adelaide-rally

Absolutely disgusting. Attacking disabled people..looks like these 'christians' have shown their true colours. Maybe people should stand outside churches during their Sunday gatherings and shout stuff back at them.
More proof that organized religion is crap..it continues to corrupt and infect this world especially with MORE hatred violence and anger.
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NIKV69
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 8:56 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Absolutely disgusting. Attacking disabled people..looks like these 'christians' have shown their true colours. Maybe people should stand outside churches during their Sunday gatherings and shout stuff back at them.
More proof that organized religion is crap..it continues to corrupt and infect this world especially with MORE hatred violence and anger
http://www.conservapedia.com/Hamilton_Square_Baptist_Church_Riot

http://www.conservapedia.com/Militant_gays

This is hardly something exclusive and the other side has shown just as much hatred and intolerance. So?
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aloges
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:10 am

Conservapedia? You might as well quote the Landover Baptist Church.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
This is hardly something exclusive and the other side has shown just as much hatred and intolerance. So?

I beg to differ.

[Edited 2011-05-15 02:13:22]
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Zentraedi
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

Seriously? Conservapedia? Be honest. Are you just trolling the OP or did you actually post that link believing it to be legitimate source?
 
jessbp
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:35 am

It's always sad when I read that some religious group feels it has the right to persecute others. Two things I've never understood though are:

1. Why Christians feel the need to interfere in someone elses life. For instance a christian or Jew or muslim living down the road has no impact on my life, nor I on theirs.

2. We're always told that religions offer love, and yet there's some much hated involved in some areas. To me it seems people get caught up in the words of the bible, but not the message.

Times will change, I truely believe that.
 
CXB77L
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:47 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Attacking disabled people

In the article:

Quote:
"Rally organiser Jason Virgo said one woman was pushed out of her wheelchair and police had to be called."

Way to editorialise ... One woman was pushed out of her wheelchair. But by whom? Article didn't say.

Quote:
"A small number of right-wing Christians came out and started waving their flags and getting in people's faces, yelling quite loudly, some of them got in a bit of a fight," Mr Virgo told AAP."

So who started the violence?

Quote:
"(They had) signs saying 'God hates sinners' ... no sign should say 'God hates'."

That I agree. Either he misread the signs, or those people aren't Christians at all. If they were, they'd know that God doesn't hate sinners. He hates sin. There's a difference.

Quote:
"A large portion of the sitting crowd of gays aggressively began to push, harangue, curse and threaten the Christian preachers."

I say again, who started the violence? One person's word against another's.

I don't condone the disruption of a peaceful rally, but I also don't condone biased editorialising that only looked at one side of the story, taking one person's word over another without a full investigation.

[Edited 2011-05-15 02:48:29]
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Springbok747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:48 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

Conservapedia? Really? C'mon Nick..now you're just trolling.

Back to the original story..its sad that people can't even ask for basic rights as human beings, just because they're 'different'. And these religious extremist a-holes can't seem to STFU and get their own house in order before preaching their shit to others.

The crazies seem to be out in full force today though.....the Australian Defence League had a protest today in Fed Square (Melbourne) against Sharia Law and Halal meat and other pathetic things. They took direct issue with being ordered around by an Asian police officer as well...bunch of f-wits.
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GST
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 9:52 am

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 1):
Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
More proof that organized religion is crap..it continues to corrupt and infect this world especially with MORE hatred violence and anger.

Totally agree with you Springbok.

+1

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

This is hardly something exclusive and the other side has shown just as much hatred and intolerance. So?

Just as much? I think you would have to try pretty hard to argue that devout religious people suffer the same intolerance that many homosexuals do frequently (with the possible exception of migrant religions that are a minority in a location, but this is a completely different type of bigotry). Shouted abuse on the street? Unprovoked assault? And those are only in the more tolerant nations.

Yes, there have been instances of intolerance from the other side, but when you are on the outside looking in as many homosexuals may feel themselves to be, I think you are more likely to want to be accepted rather than to force someone else out. That would solve nothing.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:01 am

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 4):

Seriously? Conservapedia? Be honest. Are you just trolling the OP or did you actually post that link believing it to be legitimate source?

I enjoy the

"Examples of morally offensive, anti-American behavior"

section heading..
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CXB77L
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:19 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
the Australian Defence League had a protest today in Fed Square (Melbourne) against Sharia Law

I would support that protest against Sharia Law.

Quoting GST (Reply 8):
I think you would have to try pretty hard to argue that devout religious people suffer the same intolerance that many homosexuals do frequently

So the Christians being attacked in places like Pakistan and Egypt aren't suffering from intolerance? Or the Muslims that get discriminated against in some countries aren't suffering from intolerance?

There are instances of intolerance against every sub-group, and every religion. Homosexuals don't get it any worse than other people.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
http://www.conservapedia.com/Hamilton_Square_Baptist_Church_Riot


I get this when trying to open
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /Hamilton_Square_Baptist_Church_Riot on this server.
Hmmmm maybe because i am from KSA.  
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
http://www.conservapedia.com/Militant_gays


This one the same.
You don't have permission to access /Militant_gays on this server.
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mbmbos
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:43 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 10):
Homosexuals don't get it any worse than other people.

You had me agreeing with you up until this point. First, the statement itself is a rationalization. That "homosexuals don't get it any worse than other people" seems beside the point. What's the point in saying that? Are you saying it to justify the persecution of homosexuals? It's okay because "other people" get abused too?

Second, it's false. The notion that Christians, worldwide, are persecuted as much for being Christians as homosexuals are persecuted for being homosexuals is simply false.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:47 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 10):
I would support that protest against Sharia Law.

Dude..really...not like Sharia Law is going to be implemented in this country anytime soon. Those nutjobs were also protesting against Halal meat being sold in supermarkets and accusing all Muslims in this country of being terrorists and trying to takeover the country.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 10):
Homosexuals don't get it any worse than other people.

Actually..they do. There are so many countries where homosexuality is punishable by death.
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RussianJet
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:47 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
More proof that organized religion is crap..

And that comment is more proof, unfortunately, that people think it fine to harbor prejudices based on the actions of a minority of idiots. A sad way to react to undeniably disgraceful actions by those in the article.
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Springbok747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:55 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
And that comment is more proof, unfortunately, that people think it fine to harbor prejudices based on the actions of a minority of idiots.

Dunno about you, but the majority of Christians (insert any other religion here) I've come across harbor similar views to those exhibited by members of that church, especially with regards to homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

And yes. I do stand by my comment that organized religion (not just Christianity) is not doing any favors to humanity by spreading hate and intolerance. Most of the problems on Earth today are due to religion.
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RussianJet
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 11:23 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
Most of the problems on Earth today are due to religion.

That is a hell of a statement to justify, and one which I doubt could ever be evidenced to a significant degree of satisfaction, let alone proven.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
but the majority of Christians (insert any other religion here) I've come across harbor similar views to those exhibited by members of that church, especially with regards to homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

The vast majority of Christians I know have love and tolerance at the fore of their behaviour and thinking, and would not behave in the manner described in the news item, and do not go around spreading any kind of hate. I see no reason to insult them, or express or incite prejudice against them, just because these idiots behaved badly.
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mainMAN
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 11:29 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
Most of the problems on Earth today are due to religion.

Very nearly, most of the problems on earth are due to people who call themselves religious. Anybody can do that, and as we know, many do!

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 16):
evidenced to a significant degree of satisfaction, let alone proven.

Ah......a bit like God and religion then...
 
Speedbird741
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 11:36 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
Most of the problems on Earth today are due to religion.

Strong statement Springbok, and I do believe I understand how you could reach such conclusion. However, I disagree. Religion itself is not the problem but rather the distorted interpretations made by fanatics. Imagine you how the world would be if you would simply eliminate the foundings of the moral oriention that guides so many peoples.

Speedbird741
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signol
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 11:37 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
'christians'

These people are not Christians. Jesus's 2nd commandment to "Love your neighbour as yourself" shows this. I'm Christian, and straight, and have no issue with same-sex couples - how do they impact me? If anything, I support their right to protest homophobia. The instigators of this disruption need arresting.

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CXB77L
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 11:44 am

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 12):
What's the point in saying that?

Only as a counter to the assertion that religious people don't suffer the same intolerances that many homosexuals frequently do. I'm most certainly not using it as justification for persecution against homosexuals, but I disagree that they get it any worse than other minority groups elsewhere.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 13):
Actually..they do. There are so many countries where homosexuality is punishable by death.

There are also many countries in which the belief of any other religion other than the state sanctioned religion is illegal.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 16):
The vast majority of Christians I know have love and tolerance at the fore of their behaviour and thinking, and would not behave in the manner described in the news item, and do not go around spreading any kind of hate. I see no reason to insult them, or express or incite prejudice against them, just because these idiots behaved badly.

  
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GST
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 12:11 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 10):

So the Christians being attacked in places like Pakistan and Egypt aren't suffering from intolerance? Or the Muslims that get discriminated against in some countries aren't suffering from intolerance?

I did make an exception for religions in a minority in a given region, and also made clear that this was a different form of discrimination so I suggest should be weened out of this thread.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 10):


There are instances of intolerance against every sub-group, and every religion. Homosexuals don't get it any worse than other people.

Not so, any minority gets picked on from time to time, the difference is that most groups have heartlands somewhere, homosexuals are a minority in every society. That's just the biology of our species.
 
FingerLakerAv8r
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 12:14 pm

The fear of homosexuality is beyond mind boggling. What ever you do in your own home or in private with a consenting adult is none of anyone else's business. God should never be involved in affairs in the bedroom heterosexual or homosexual.

As for religion my grandmother always used to say keep your god and your beliefs to yourself. What ever relationship you have with your personal savior is between you and said savior.

In an ironic side note an article came out yesterday that Wisconson Republican's are bank rolling activists in New York to legalize same sex marriage.
 
windy95
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 13):
Dude..really...not like Sharia Law is going to be implemented in this country anytime soon.



We said the same thing here and we already have judges making rulings based on it.

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Absolutely disgusting. Attacking disabled people..looks like these 'christians' have shown their true colours. Maybe people should stand outside churches during their Sunday gatherings and shout stuff back at them.
More proof that organized religion is crap..it continues to corrupt and infect this world especially with MORE hatred violence and anger.



The article does not state who started the scuffles and says nothing about the disabled person being attacked. As for the religion your intolerance to it shows the bigotry and phobias can go both ways. Your reaction puts you in the same group you are condemning

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
Dunno about you, but the majority of Christians (insert any other religion here) I've come across harbor similar views to those exhibited by members of that church, especially with regards to homosexuality and same-sex marriage.



Are they not allowed that opinion? Because they do not agree with yo they have to have a Phobia?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 15):
Most of the problems on Earth today are due to religion.



Nice phobia you have.

Quoting signol (Reply 19):
I support their right to protest homophobia.



As then you should support the right of the protesters against them.

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 22):
The fear of homosexuality is beyond mind boggling



Who says they have a fear of them? How is not agreeing with it a phobia? Do I then have a phobia of liberals? Libphobia?

If you do not agree or like homosexuality you are a homophobe. Do not agree with illegal aliens you are a racist. The left has all bases covered when it comes to labeleing and stereotyping people for not agreeing with them..The labeling of people with something negative for not agreeing with you or your position is getting old.
 
signol
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
As then you should support the right of the protesters against them

Sure they too have a right to peaceful protest, as has any group, whatever their protest point.
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/331.html
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire
What they do not have is the right to violently disrupt the 1st protest.

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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting signol (Reply 24):
What they do not have is the right to violently disrupt the 1st protest.

I've not seen anything to see who actually instigated the violence.

The protesters got their signs wrong. God doesn't hate sinners. He hates the sin, and loves the sinners. All of them. That's Christianity 101.
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474218
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 3:22 pm

Quoting jessbp (Reply 5):
It's always sad when I read that some religious group feels it has the right to persecute others. Two things I've never understood though are:

1. Why Christians feel the need to interfere in someone elses life. For instance a christian or Jew or muslim living down the road has no impact on my life, nor I on theirs.

2. We're always told that religions offer love, and yet there's some much hated involved in some areas. To me it seems people get caught up in the words of the bible, but not the message.

Times will change, I truely believe that.


The problem is some people think things like this in the video will actually change people's opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZJvMzSKmKA
 
photopilot
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 3:31 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 6):
Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Attacking disabled people
In the article:
Quote:
"Rally organiser Jason Virgo said one woman was pushed out of her wheelchair and police had to be called."
Way to editorialise ... One woman was pushed out of her wheelchair. But by whom? Article didn't say.

Quote:
"A large portion of the sitting crowd of gays aggressively began to push, harangue, curse and threaten the Christian preachers."

I say again, who started the violence? One person's word against another's.

I don't condone the disruption of a peaceful rally, but I also don't condone biased editorialising that only looked at one side of the story, taking one person's word over another without a full investigation.



Glad to see that someone actually READ the article, took away the rhetoric of the inflammatory OP's editorializing and realized that nowhere does it say that the Christians attacked a disabled person. In addition, reading the only real facts presented in the article, it would seem that the homo's attacked the Christians. Were the Christians protesting the homo activities? Well of course, but that's their Free Speech right as long as it's on Public Property. And according to a clear, unambiguous statement in the story it states that it was the homo crowd who began to push, harangue, curse and threaten the Christians.

Isn't it funny how things get twisted around to suit a certain agenda?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 4:08 pm

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 4):
Seriously? Conservapedia? Be honest. Are you just trolling the OP or did you actually post that link believing it to be legitimate source?

Oh please. Take 5 mins of your time and use google. There have been many protests in SF when Catholic church services have been disrupted by these nuts running into services while they are going on. Again if you are going to try to exploit the notion this sort of behavior only exists on one side the troll sure isn't me.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 7):
Conservapedia? Really? C'mon Nick..now you're just trolling.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307612,00.html

Please. This happens with the fringe on both sides. The only trolling that goes on is the constant barrage of threads posted here trying to make it appear that this is one sided.
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cargolex
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 4:21 pm

Quote:

Please. This happens with the fringe on both sides

No, it generally does not.

There is FAR more hatred for gays and lesbians coming from religious zealots than the other way around, and you'd have to be living on the moon not to know that.

I don't see gay people beating Christians to death in the street or insisting that we should have state-sanctioned bans on Christians expressing their religion, getting married, or adopting - because these things simply do not happen.

Now, you may agree with the likes of Fred Phelps, but we don't have to sit here and listen to you say these things and still respect you.

Frankly, your statements in here are just more insane conservative redefinition of "We're the victim." Conservatives and Evangelical Christians are not the victims of "militant homosexuals" - they are the people who have on every level attempted to stop gay people from living normal, healthy productive lives and in some cases from living at all.

Your sources (Conservapedia, really?) are preposterous, as is your point.


I want to share with all of you some of what Conservapedia, the Trustworthy Encyclopedia - has to say about homosexuals:

Quote:
Homosexual men are men who practice homosexuality. Homosexual men have higher rates of promiscuity than heterosexual men and homosexual men have significantly higher rates of diseases and mental health problems than heterosexual men. In addition, homosexual male couples have significanly higher rates of domestic violence.

All false, no sources given anyway.

Quote:
"the risk of a homosexual molesting a child is 10 to 20 times greater than that of a heterosexual"

Not true. Source? Family Research council.

"Conservapedia" repeatedly makes homosexuals out to be immoral and mentally ill - often with no citations at all, and instists that homosexuals engage in all kind of behavior that is too crude to list here but also has no basis in fact.

There are also wonderful "original works" such as this:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:_Homosexual_recruitment

Conservapedia even attempts to deny the majority of Nazi persecution of homosexuals in the thirties and during WW2 an in Vichy France. Do you want to hear a story about that which you won't see on Conservapedia - the bigoted and worthless encyclopedia?

Tell me, Nik, is this what you believe? Do you consider this a trustworthy source?

Quote:
The only trolling that goes on is the constant barrage of threads posted here trying to make it appear that this is one sided.

Of course, that is exactly what it is. Conservatives and evangelical Christians hate gays and would prefer it if they simply went back to living how they did in, say, 1950. Or not living at all. And they've given overwhelming evidence to support this view. They're no longer able to say things like Jesse Helms or Jerry Falwell used to, so today it's "Let's preserve marriage" from people like Newt Gingrich ... who's now on marriage number 3.

This is a one sided issue - Gays trying to live normally and have equal rights, Conservatives and evangelicals insisting that Gays are subhuman and trying to quash those rights.





-----------------------

Quote:

We said the same thing here and we already have judges making rulings based on it.

No we don't. Specific examples?

Quote:
Your reaction puts you in the same group you are condemning

I love how in your mind, when somebody points out that something is racist or bigoted, it's them who are the racist because they are telling you about something that is racist or bigoted. Talk about shooting the messenger. This is just one more example of attempting to do a giant handwave to pretend that your views are okay, and that those who would criticize them are the "real" racists.

Quote:
If you do not agree or like homosexuality you are a homophobe.

If you don't agree that homosexuals are people just like you who are entitled to live their lives then yes, you are a homophobe.

If you don't "agree" with homosexuality, well, what exactly are you "not agreeing" with? People's right to do what they want with their lives? And if you don't agree with that, why not?

Quote:
The labeling of people with something negative for not agreeing with you or your position is getting old.

Except that there is only one word for somebody who thinks that gays should not be allowed to have equal rights - homophobe.

And as for not tossing around labels, it might be nice to stop hearing how everyone who disagrees with you is a communist or a socialist.

[Edited 2011-05-15 09:44:46]

[Edited 2011-05-15 09:48:39]
 
FingerLakerAv8r
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 4:36 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
Who says they have a fear of them? How is not agreeing with it a phobia? Do I then have a phobia of liberals? Libphobia?

If you do not agree or like homosexuality you are a homophobe. Do not agree with illegal aliens you are a racist. The left has all bases covered when it comes to labeleing and stereotyping people for not agreeing with them..The labeling of people with something negative for not agreeing with you or your position is getting old.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in that phrase. I'm not saying the group in question is afraid of them it was more of a generalized statement and my personal opinion

I don't particularly agree with some aspects of homosexual behavior nor do I agree with most aspects of illegal immigration. But I will stop short of calling it homophobia or racism. You jumped into that by your statements and obvious personal conclusions based on your personal understanding of the issues.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 29):
Tell me, Nik, is this what you believe? Do you consider this a trustworthy source?

Well of course I must believe it since I used it as a source right?   

I found another source with the same info. I know you will say the same about FOX as you would anyother right leaning outlet but fact is there are the same loons in both camps who behave the same way.

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 29):
This is a one sided issue - Gays trying to live normally and have equal rights, Conservatives and evangelicals insisting that Gays are subhuman and trying to quash those rights

Again you are confusing rights with state voted on laws. Marriage is not a right. Sure the uber far left church whackos are wrong in how they viewe gays but just as wrong as the uber agnostics who preach the same anti religion hatred and try to paint anyone Christian in the same light as these fringe idiots.
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cargolex
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Quote:
Well of course I must believe it since I used it as a source right?

I just want to clarify here, are you saying you specifically don't believe something you used as a source to support your argument?

For the record, I don't think you believe things like "homosexuals are all pedophiles." But it's hard to keep that view when you use sources like Conservapedia, which is so obviously and wildly slanted it's hard not to come to conclusions about people who would treat anything on that sight as the gospel truth. Still, it's important to at least try.

Quote:
I found another source with the same info. I know you will say the same about FOX as you would anyother right leaning outlet but fact is there are the same loons in both camps who behave the same way.

You know, on an absolute basis, you have a point - there are a small number of people out there who behave badly no matter what side of the spectrum they are on.

However - on this particular issue, this is most definitely not a 1:1 thing. Conservatives and Evangelicals have an overwhelming record of being extremely homophobic and doing basically whatever they can, even if it means absurd levels of hypocrisy, to stop Gay people from leading normal lives.

A sitting Republican congresswoman literally sat on the floor of the house last year and insisted that Matthew Shepard's murder was not the result of homophobia or anti-gay violence, but a robbery. In front of Matthew Shepard's mother. On the congressional record. This person is now chair of the House education committee.

In Virginia, the supposedly moderate new Governor, elected in 2008, immediately set about stripping out "sexual orientation" from all state non-discrimination legislation, and even went so far as to have the attorney general of that state, a tea party favorite, force private institutions to end anti-discrimination policies that encompassed sexual orientation. How's that for "small government?"

Every election cycle, the right wing starts attacking gays to fire up the evangelical base. Every day, Fox news pushes what was far right further and further toward the center. You want to talk about Bill O'Rielly? Sure, let's talk about him.

From a conversation on the O'Rielly factor about the time the San Diego Padres decided that they would have a Gay Pride night. This is San Diego, there's a pretty sizeable gay population there. An excerpt from the conversation between Bill and Ron deHarte, then Executive Director of the Padres:

Quote:

O'REILLY: But you are focusing in and putting more homosexuals into an area. OK? See, that's the problem. I mean, nobody objects to homosexuals going to baseball games. That's un-American to do that.

But if you're going to cluster them in on a promotion night -- and I don't even object to that, but I do object to, and I think it's insane, giving a hat giveaway for any kid under 12 gets a hat. Why would you do this on the same night? Why would you do that, sir?

DEHARTE: There's no distinction between having a night where kids are there to celebrate the game, just as straight families are bringing children in, gays and lesbians are bringing their children into the game, to celebrate the ball game. It's about the ball game.

The implication being that Gays can't be trusted to be around children - a constant meme from the right since the days of Anita Bryant. The full discussion is rather lengthy and contains even more offensive material from an O'Rielly guest. I can post the entire thing but that's getting too far afield, I think.

That's just one of many Bill O'Rielly dalliances with homophobia.

In the interest of full disclosure I don't watch any cable news TV (or much of any TV at all).

I'll ask again - is this what you believe?

Quote:
Marriage is not a right.

Is there a place within the United States where two healthy, unrelated heterosexuals, a male and a female, over the age of 18, cannot get married? Please share.

Or is the response a discussion of states rights vs. full faith and credit?

[Edited 2011-05-15 10:45:14]

[Edited 2011-05-15 10:47:53]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 5:49 pm

"Religion of Peace" my left gonad.

Quote:
"The motivation of the Christian preachers was one of love for God and their neighbour, and equal marriage rights will not be tolerated by rational Australians."

There are too many things wrong with that sentence to count.

I could wrath and say that I hate all Christians, just like people have wrathed at Muslims. But I won't. Christianity didn't cause this, even though many falsely claim that this is what Christianity teaches. It doesn't.

I will say that I hate anyone who chooses of their own free will to dehumanize another human being for merely existing. In making that free choice, they voluntarily and willingly forfeit their own humanity and dignity.
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czbbflier
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 7:31 pm

It seems to me that we're getting an awfully long way off topic.

There are extremists in both camps and radicalized homosexuality has been around long enough now to safely conclude that there are now radicals within religion (all religions) who have become so because of the 'gay agenda'. Both 'sides' have points to make and both are correct in their own right.

There is hypocrisy on both sides however, and all it appears is that we have screaming across the fence- even in this thread. So how about we consider moving from "positions" to "interests" here?

What are the positions at play here? Equal rights? Perhaps. Marriage? Likely. Ego identifications? Certainly. Might there be something bigger at play? If so, what is that?

What might be the interests? Love? Respect? Community? Values? Anything else?

Can we agree on a few points?
1. All of these sorts of actions (on both sides) that bring one group or another into disrepute are committed by a small, small minority?

2. The larger majority of each side have blinders which permit those said extremists or fanatics to operate within their ranks but autonomously so?

3. Violence toward anybody for any reason is unacceptable?

If we can agree to these basic points, we can move forward.

So Springbok et al- Can you accept that the article was very vague over who actually did what and how that might feed an objection from someone who is as active ensuring that ordinary 'conservatives' are not smeared or defamed as others are ensuring that 'liberals' are not smeared or defamed?

And Nik et al- forget quoting sources for a minute. I get your point- you're challenging the apparent bias in the article which I see as well. However, can you see past the positions- certainly the position you've dug yourself into having to defend conservative websites- and look at the interests at play: that this might not have been the best way to disagree with the gays and lesbians who were already peacefully demonstrating?

Everybody's just pushing each other's buttons here. It ain't pretty or productive. In a sense all this is is the same pushing and shoving that took place in Adelaide only it's across the internet.

Are there intolerant people in this world? Of course. Is there a dearth of love in this world? Definitely.

What happened that day in Adelaide was unacceptable. Gays and Lesbians have the right to demonstrate. Christians have the right to demonstrate. Is there a chance there might be confrontation between them? Yes, there is. So why was it allowed to get to this?

So we have two groups who, when suddenly faced with the other, become entrenched in their own 'positions' and puffed up like two cats in a quarrel. That's human nature. We can't fight human nature. What happened should have come as no surprise. It's the same reaction as I would expect when any two opposing groups wind up physically bumping up against each other when they're already riled up. Football fans is a good example. Nationalists are another.

So what would have been the best interest of all those involved here?

Sending one group or the other home was not an acceptable solution. Both have the right to demonstrate and both have a valid point (in their own minds) to make. Is everybody communicating their respective realities the best way they can? That's doubtful. But we must honour their attempt.

So where were the police before the confrontation? They're respected by both sides, are they not? Why did they not step in to ensure that the two groups did not bump up against each other where physical confrontation was possible?

There's the story, if you ask me. I'd go after the police for their inaction. Instead of saying that the Christians were 'hateful' or that the gays and lesbians 'actually took the first swing', what about the police who let it happen in the first place? Where were their negotiation skills? Where were their members to create that physical space to allow both to demonstrate simultaneously?

Is it not in their best interest to "keep the peace"? After all, isn't that what they are mandated to do?

How and why did the police fail to keep the peace? What could they do differently MOVING FORWARD to ensure this sort of confrontation doesn't happen again?

Is that an "interest" we can all agree on?
 
san747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

This is hardly something exclusive and the other side has shown just as much hatred and intolerance. So?
Quoting 474218 (Reply 26):


The problem is some people think things like this in the video will actually change people's opinions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZJvM...SKmKA
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):

Please. This happens with the fringe on both sides.

Why is this always the first thing brought up?? How does the fact that the "other side" shows intolerance make "your side" showing intolerance ok?

I'm liberal, and when someone representing a liberal cause shows intolerance, hatred, and/or disrespect toward others, I condemn it, not defend it to the death with questionable moral reasoning.

It doesn't matter what others do. What occurred at that rally in Adelaide was straight-up wrong, no excuses. When I was 6 and trying to get out of trouble and not admit I did something wrong, blaming my brother and accusing him of doing the same thing was my first reaction. It's a very immature mindset you are showing- just man up and concede that those people were wrong and don't feel a childlike need to defend them when you know their actions aren't defendable.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
Marriage is not a right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Quote:
Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival
Quoting NIKV69:
Sure the uber far left church whackos are wrong in how they viewe gays but just as wrong as the uber agnostics who preach the same anti religion hatred and try to paint anyone Christian in the same light as these fringe idiots.

Then why are you defending the fringe idiots? Why not as a conservative, just call them idiots and remind us that they aren't representative of most Christians and conservatives instead of posting questionable links about how the other side does the same thing?

I know you have no problem with gays, you actually have demonstrated yourself to be fairly socially liberal, so why are you defending these people? There's a disconnect here I don't understand.

[Edited 2011-05-15 13:18:47]



[Edited 2011-05-15 13:21:14]
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DocLightning
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 8:58 pm

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 34):

There are extremists in both camps and radicalized homosexuality has been around long enough now to safely conclude that there are now radicals within religion (all religions) who have become so because of the 'gay agenda'.

I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of a "radicalized homosexual agenda." The only "agenda" I know of is "leave us the hell alone and stop trying to pass laws that curtail our rights."

There are a lot of people who point at people calling for public hangings of gays or stonings and such and assume that because they aren't calling for such things, they are taking the moral high road. They say: "I don't hate gays, but I don't think they should be allowed to..."

As soon as you lump all of us into a category and say that "we" shouldn't be allowed to do something that you are allowed simply because we exist, then you are no better than any other bigot. You are no better than the KKK, the Nazis, or any other hate group. The fact that you do not advocate violence as the means to your end does not give you moral superiority. The end, which is the dehumanization of humans, is what makes you hateful. The means are unimportant.
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Aaron747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Sun May 15, 2011 10:16 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
How is not agreeing with it

Sorry, but you can't "not agree with" something that is otherwise totally natural. That's like saying you "don't agree with" a cloudy day or ants seizing on a dropped morsel of food.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
More proof that organized religion is crap..it continues to corrupt and infect this world especially with MORE hatred violence and anger.

Did the opposite for me. Way to make an ignorant generalization. I'm Christian and I disagree with their actions.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Christianity didn't cause this, even though many falsely claim that this is what Christianity teaches.

     
I only wonder how great the world would be if Jesus' teachings were truly followed...
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photopilot
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 35):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
Marriage is not a right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Quote:
Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival

I always laugh when the Loving v Virginia case is cited as something relevant to the homo marriage issue. The homos cite a case of a man marrying a woman. Tell me, in 1967 when Loving v Virginia was adjudicated, to your really think you'd have got the same result if a black man wanted to "marry" a white man? I think not!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
As soon as you lump all of us into a category and say that "we" shouldn't be allowed to do something that you are allowed simply because we exist, then you are no better than any other bigot. You are no better than the KKK, the Nazis, or any other hate group.

I just love it when the homo brigade always takes anybody that objects to them getting married as being a bigot, then starts throwing the Nazi, KKK, and other names around. For the record I have no issue with Civil Unions between consenting homos, equal property rights, inheritance, etc, etc, etc,. I just object to them using the word "Marriage" to describe their relationship. Marriage to me has always meant a Man and a Woman in holy wedlock....period. If you homos don't like the term Civil Union, then fine, come up with your own word that specifically defines a homo relationship.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:06 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):
I always laugh when the Loving v Virginia case is cited as something relevant to the homo marriage issue.

Did you laugh at Mildred Loving herself, who before her death said she believed the principles of her case should be extended to include gay marriage?


By the way, the repeated use of the word "homo" in your post...wtf? Reminds me of that post a while back from that person who kept complaining about "Jewism"...If you want to try to convince people you are not a bigot, you might want to bring your language into third grade or higher.
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Aaron747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:13 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):
I just object to them using the word "Marriage" to describe their relationship.

Except that's what it is, with every fiber of the meaning society bestows on the legal codification of a committed relationship. It can mean whatever you want it to in the halls of faith, but we're not talking about that environment here. And since the United States is not a theocracy by any measure, the latter embellishment of marriage is completely irrelevant.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):
Marriage to me has always meant

Meaning to you is irrelevant before the law.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):
If you homos don't like

A modicum of respect to your fellow man is too much to ask? And people wonder why civility is gone. "Homo" is not very nice. These are people just like you.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
photopilot
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:17 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 40):
By the way, the repeated use of the word "homo" in your post...wtf? Reminds me of that post a while back from that person who kept complaining about "Jewism"...If you want to try to convince people you are not a bigot, you might want to bring your language into third grade or higher.



Well, I'm only following YOUR agenda. If the homos insist on calling anybody that objects or disagree's with them a "homophobe" how can you possibly take offence or object to the use of the sobriquet, homo? A spade is a spade so I'm just following the clear definition of terms used by the homos in their descriptive terminology. What would you like me to call you..... hetrophobes?
 
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n229nw
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 42):

Well, I'm only following YOUR agenda.
My agenda? I'm not even gay. I believe in equal rights. I guess that is "my agenda."

And you can't possibly be seriously trying to say that you aren't able to distinguish between a Latin root used within another word and a derogatory slur made from separating that root out as its own label in noun form?

What terrifies you so much about this issue?

[Edited 2011-05-15 18:40:14]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
UAL747
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 42):
If the homos insist on calling anybody that objects or disagree's with them a "homophobe" how can you possibly take offence or object to the use of the sobriquet, homo? A spade is a spade so I'm just following the clear definition of terms used by the homos in their descriptive terminology. What would you like me to call you..... hetrophobes?

Are you kidding me? The term "Homo" is often used as a derogatory term by predominantly straight men towards gay men, in order to belittle them. In fact, when ANY straight man calls a gay man a "homo" it is as offensive as calling me a "fag" or "faggot." Homosexual is not a slang term. "Homophobic" is not a slang or derogatory term. "Heterophobe" is also an acceptable term, while perhaps not in the dictionary. Read a book and quit acting ignorant and/or blissfully arrogant.

I've had to deal with too many people like you in my life to just sit there and take that crap.

UAL

[Edited 2011-05-15 18:39:27]
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hoons90
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 42):

Well, I'm only following YOUR agenda. If the homos insist on calling anybody that objects or disagree's with them a "homophobe" how can you possibly take offence or object to the use of the sobriquet, homo? A spade is a spade so I'm just following the clear definition of terms used by the homos in their descriptive terminology. What would you like me to call you..... hetrophobes?

That's like saying "Jap" isn't an offensive term because it's part of the word Japanese.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):
Marriage to me has always meant a Man and a Woman in holy wedlock....period

I thought you were irreligious anyways (looking at your posting record), so what's the whole deal about marriage being "holy" to you?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 1:54 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
http://www.conservapedia.com/Hamilton_Square_Baptist_Church_Riot

http://www.conservapedia.com/Militan..._gays

This reminds me so much of this little page. Are you sure they aren't part of the same project?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 16):
The vast majority of Christians I know have love and tolerance at the fore of their behaviour and thinking, and would not behave in the manner described in the news item, and do not go around spreading any kind of hate. I see no reason to insult them, or express or incite prejudice against them, just because these idiots behaved badly.

Not to be rude, but are you sure that's the way they behave behind your back?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 23):
Quoting signol (Reply 19):
I support their right to protest homophobia.
As then you should support the right of the protesters against them.

How convenient that their place to protest is right where the homophobia protest was being carried out. That's called provocation.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 27):
Were the Christians protesting the homo activities? Well of course, but that's their Free Speech right as long as it's on Public Property. And according to a clear, unambiguous statement in the story it states that it was the homo crowd who began to push, harangue, curse and threaten the Christians.

I won't defend anyone whose actions were incorrect, but it's very convenient that these Christians arrive at the site of a protests against homophobia and start their protests against the homosexuals demanding an end to discrimination against them. If it had been the other way I bet you anything that the Christians would have cried foul and played the role of a victim.
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DocLightning
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 39):

I just love it when the homo brigade always takes anybody that objects to them getting married as being a bigot,

Because they are.

Your use of the term "homo brigade" belies you as a bigot. But bigotry is like alcoholism, denial is a huge part of it.

Disgusting. You freely forfeit your dignity and humanity with your actions.
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NIKV69
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 5:27 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 35):
Why is this always the first thing brought up?? How does the fact that the "other side" shows intolerance make "your side" showing intolerance ok?

I never said it made it ok. It's just these threads are made to make one party look like the ones with a lonney fringe when we all know it's far from the truth.

Quoting san747 (Reply 35):
Then why are you defending the fringe idiots? Why not as a conservative, just call them idiots and remind us that they aren't representative of most Christians and conservatives instead of posting questionable links about how the other side does the same thing?

Well because I'm not really a conservative and again these threads are just designed to paint Christians are the nuts that do these stupid things.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of a "radicalized homosexual agenda." The only "agenda" I know of is "leave us the hell alone and stop trying to pass laws that curtail our rights

Marriage is not a right. It's a privilege governed by state law and that has to go through a process.
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czbbflier
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RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 5:55 am

I suspected that my post, trying to move from positions to interests was going to evoke a few strong reactions and that is OK.

However, I am nonetheless disappointed by the outcome. Given the fact that there are young and impressionable individuals on this site who may well be struggling with societal pressures and schoolyard bullies because they are 'different', I am compelled to call out some of the most egregious language I have read on a.net in quite some time.

Calling someone or a group of people who may or may not be, who may or may not self-identify as gay, as "homos"- especially when used pejoratively in sensitive discussions, is completely, absolutely and inexcusably inappropriate.

Culturally, for a resident of Toronto, there is no way that anyone could possibly not know that calling someone "a homo" is derogatory. For a "former senior aviation photographer for Bombardier Aerospace", a company whose Core Values include,

Quote:
Integrity: We behave with integrity and in an ethical manner in everything we do and say, thereby earning and maintaining the trust and respect of customers, shareholders, suppliers, colleagues, partners and communities,(source)

and currently an operations supervisor with people reporting to him of all orientations and genders, this outburst is truly concerning.

Photopilot, I believe in being hard on the issue but soft on the person, but I am sorry: there are times when that approach must be set aside. Your opinions may well be valid to you, but they are completely nullified by the language that you chose to use. Unlike homosexuality which is not a choice, those words were chosen by you and they are hurtful and way out of line.

Finally, if your position was emboldened in any way by my attempt to move the conversation from positions to interests, shame to you. What interest did this language advance, besides division and hatred? If that's what you wanted, you certainly succeeded in raising the bar on that one.

And for that I am truly sorry and disappointed: I have always enjoyed your otherwise well-reasoned perspective. I truly hope this is an aberration. Is there something else going on here?

* * * * *

Yet, I still feel strongly about trying to move the conversation away from positions.

Doc- your concern is real and in a very real way, validated by the disagreeable turn taken in this thread. I was expecting I would have to explain myself regarding 'radicalized' homosexual agenda:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):
I'm sorry, but I'm not aware of a "radicalized homosexual agenda." The only "agenda" I know of is "leave us the hell alone and stop trying to pass laws that curtail our rights."

Point very well taken. But allow me to ask a couple of questions and mention a couple of differences in the American experience and the Canadian one I see....

First, the differences: there is a serious and concerted effort in the United States by non-liberal politicians at all levels of government to curtail the advances that the LGBTQ community have made thus far. This has not happened in Canada- not yet- and so there may be a slightly less urgent nature in the work that is done here- or at least, there needs to be less urgency in the work that is done here, outbursts notwithstanding. Hence, perhaps I am either being complacent or else can afford to take a more objective view of the two competing positions.

Hence, my observation that the 'agenda' has become a Marxist / Gramscian class-based approach where there are repressors and the repressed. Hence, it has become ideological and 'radicalized'.

Radicalized may not be the exactly correct word, as there are no doubt those out there who would disagree with this view, but "insane" (defined loosely as, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results") is equally apt but equally cumbersome a term in this case.

Why is it that there are Roman Catholics, for example, who desperately want "The Church" to accept them? "The Church", in my view, subjective as my view is, is a disgraced institution. The entire structure is both completely inert and corrupt yet there are 'lost' sheep wanting back into the flock.

These same 'lost sheep' have completely reassessed their relationships with others so that they can live their lives as naturally and lovingly as they can and yet they try to take on the Catholic Church like they're facing down the neighbourhood bully. Instead, why not start the exodus from The Church instead?

This is the same church whose hierarchy doesn't even believe in the equality of women and at last estimate, the majority of the Catholic Church's millions of followers are women!

This kinda reminds me of the BC cartoon a few years back where a cockroach looks up from the ground at BC and says "We cockroaches are going to outlive you- even after nuclear Armageddon we will be around and you humans will be all gone. We are indestructible! Whaddya think of that, bucko?" In response, BC steps on and squishes the cockroach.

Do these wayward sheep not realize that not to feel welcome as part of the congregation is, in effect, to be excommunicated. These hypocrites who run the corporation otherwise called the "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" don't want people inside the fold calling a Spade a Spade.

And yet they keep trying. That one seems pretty cut-and-dried ideological, hence radical or failing that, insane.

The same thing goes for marriage. I may be flying a lead balloon here but why is it that the LGBTQ want 'marriage' just like everybody else? Marriage as another completely disgraced institution. It has been reduced to a brand. Like Coca-Cola.

Why can't the LGBTQ community pressure the government to take all the legal rights and privileges that come with "marriage" and enshrine them in a law so that, just as it is in certain countries, France being one of them, where when you get "married", you actually have to visit the city hall to legally enter a civil union as well as get married in a church?

THAT would be progress, if you ask me- take the legal privileges out of the Church and put them in law, accessible to all, where they belong.

That way, those who self-identify as religious get to keep their religion and they can be as exclusive as they want, while those who identify in the aforementioned oppressed groups can also enjoy the benefits equally of what the religious ones call marriage.

I am "married" to my partner of 8 years but we haven't been before a minister/ preacher/ priest in some church, nor have we been through a civil ceremony. That is our relationship and that is what we, and all who know us, call it.

What else does it matter? Am I selling myself and my relationship short? I dont' believe so.

First, in my subjective view, the Capital-"I" Institution we call Capital-"M" Marriage is a shell of what it used to be, so disgraced and abused that it has been reduced, as I said above, to that of a brand. So who would want it so badly anyways when that brand has the intrinsic value of an empty box on a shelf at Wal*Mart?

Second, if the word is so important, then why don't we all just appropriate it just as we have appropriated other words that once defined us negatively. Whether we've been blessed by a church or not, if we're in a committed relationship, call it marriage and over time, the definition will evolve. Some may 'approve' or not- but hey- languages evolve all the time. And in the end, if the new definition means joy and love and commitment and all the good things that are spiritually uplifting then time is on our side.

And so, I return to what I view as radicalized: an ideological, Marxist, Gramscian, whatever, viewpoint: There are two classes: the oppressed unmarriagable ones and the oppressive married couples.

And in the end, is it really that important, when indeed, there are still people on death row for being suspected of homosexuality. How is our self-gratification over some hollow victory about language a real step in the right direction in the face of real oppression in much of the world?

* * * * *

All of this is a distraction, however, to the thread. Subsequent entries return to the provocation aspect of the counter-demonstration. That the Christian demonstration was an act of provocation may well be true. That the gay demonstrators may have taken the first swing may also be true.

But where were the police? Why did they not move proactively when it was apparent trouble was brewing?

This, Doc, is something where concrete and actionable conclusions can be drawn: To paraphrase an anonymous State Department official in the wake of the OBL take-down, "Either Pakistani government officials were completely unaware that OBL had been living in Abbotabad for over five years, which is pretty bad, or else they did know, which is much worse".

Either the Adelaide Police Department did not know that trouble was brewing, which was pretty bad, or else they did know, which is worse.

Either way, the police department has some 'splainin' to do- and some serious education to undertake by the LGBTQ community they serve- so that gays can get back to demonstrating for their rights without the concern that they will have to endure the provocations of the Christian community which, I am sure, is a noisy minority and a pain in the side of the larger Christian community on other issues within their community.
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Christians Disrupt Peaceful Same-sex Rally

Mon May 16, 2011 6:03 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 46):
Not to be rude, but are you sure that's the way they behave behind your back?

That's crossing the line. I take that personally, and I'm sure other religious members would too.

I honestly don't see a difference between the anti-gay crowd and those who vilify the religious community. Hate is the same shade everywhere.
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