Stealthz
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F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Wed May 18, 2011 10:39 am

Less than 2 days to P1 at Circuit de Catalunya.

FIA has backed down on banning blown difusers for now, saving the teams quite a lot of rengineering and retuning.

Ross Brawn has said Michael Schumacher will bounce back... am I the only one tired of hearing RB, Norbert Haug and other MS boosters saying this?
How long do we have to wait for him to bounce back?

Adrian Sutil has (allegedly) displayed even less control over broken champagne glasses than his VJM04 (no place in F1 IMHO!)

Pirelli have promised more durable tyres... undoing what has been one of the seasons highponts thus far..

Looking forward to the weekend!***

Cheers



*** Have just received my first shift roster for my new job and I don't start Monday until 12:45 pm so I will have no issues staying up late for the GP
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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Wed May 18, 2011 1:44 pm

I wonder what overtaking will be like at Catalunya this time. It wasn't the most renowned as a track in which one could overtake, but with the new DRS system things might be different.

As for Pirelli making more durable tyres - I can see your point about the tyre strategy being one of the most interesting things this year, but I think if the hard tyres can't even last half race distance, then it's simply not durable enough. I'd like to see more racing on the track rather than in the pits. I don't want to do away with tyre changes completely, but there's got to be a line drawn somewhere. Hamilton's race two weeks ago was ruined because of his tyre stops. If he had been on track it would've been an interesting battle between him and Webber for second.
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Wed May 18, 2011 2:03 pm

Thanks for opening the thread, Stealthz!

For the first time this season, I will probably be able to watch a GP.... at long last!

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
Ross Brawn has said Michael Schumacher will bounce back... am I the only one tired of hearing RB, Norbert Haug and other MS boosters saying this?

No you're not. This blind faith in MS is getting ridiculous. Can't they just realise that the man is simply finished?
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
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cpd
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Wed May 18, 2011 2:08 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
As for Pirelli making more durable tyres - I can see your point about the tyre strategy being one of the most interesting things this year, but I think if the hard tyres can't even last half race distance, then it's simply not durable enough. I'd like to see more racing on the track rather than in the pits

I want to see them run on tyres that are hard enough that they last the full race distance from start to finish, and do away with pit stops completely.
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Wed May 18, 2011 3:29 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 3):
I want to see them run on tyres that are hard enough that they last the full race distance from start to finish, and do away with pit stops completely.

They tried that in 2005, leading to Räikkönen's accident after he flat-spotted a tyre, then drove around with severe vibrations which ultimately lead to suspension failure.

I think banning pit stops for tyre changes is a safety issue.
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bill142
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Thu May 19, 2011 9:32 pm

Latest news suggests India could get moved to Dec 4 with Bahrain taking it's original slot.
 
aerobalance
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Thu May 19, 2011 9:43 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 4):

Nobody said anything about banning pitstops, just making a hard enough tire to complete a race if desired. Flatspot a tire and pit if needed, no additional penalty.
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codeshare
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Fri May 20, 2011 11:46 am

Result is easy to predict IMHO. This track favours RBR.

KS/codeshare
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 10:02 am

Waiting for qualifyings.

When I got back from my extended Space Shuttle trip yesterday aftenoon I noitced there are already some mega-yachts moored off the Monte Carlo harbour.

Helicopters manager friend at the airport said business is better this year both between Cannes Film Festival and Monaco Grand Prix. I was surprised to hear this. He said all drivers are now ferried by personal jets and helicopter to Monaco. They expect all drivers Tuesday.

Events are unfolding quickly...
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codeshare
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 1:18 pm

Q3 is becoming a one lap show. Everything to save tyres. Well done Webbo, I hope he can drive for the win.

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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 1:22 pm

Barcelona Spanish Grand Prix Qualifyings results

1 australia Mark Webber 2 Red Bull-Renault 1:23.619 1:21.773 1:20.981
2 germany Sebastian Vettel 1 Red Bull-Renault 1:24.142 1:21.540 1:21.181
3 great britain Lewis Hamilton 3 McLaren-Mercedes 1:24.370 1:22.148 1:21.961
4 spain Fernando Alonso 5 Ferrari 1:23.485 1:22.813 1:21.964
5 great britain Jenson Button 4 McLaren-Mercedes 1:24.428 1:22.050 1:21.996
6 russian federation Vitaly Petrov 10 Renault 1:23.069 1:22.948 1:22.471
7 germany Nico Rosberg 8 Mercedes GP 1:23.507 1:22.569 1:22.599
8 brazil Felipe Massa 6 Ferrari 1:23.506 1:23.026 1:22.888
9 venezuela Pastor Maldonado 12 Williams-Cosworth 1:24.406 1:22.854 1:22.952
10 germany Michael Schumacher 7 Mercedes GP 1:22.960 1:22.671
11 switzerland Sebastien Buemi 18 Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:23.962 1:23.231
12 mexico Sergio Perez 17 Sauber 1:24.209 1:23.367
13 spain Jaime Alguersuari 19 Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:24.049 1:23.694
14 japan Kamui Kobayashi 16 Sauber 1:23.656 1:23.702
15 finland Heikki Kovalainen 20 Lotus-Renault 1:25.874 1:25.403
16 great britain Paul Di Resta 15 Force India-Mercedes 1:24.332 1:26.126
17 germany Adrian Sutil 14 Force India-Mercedes 1:24.648 1:26.571
18 italy Jarno Trulli 21 Lotus-Renault 1:26.521
19 brazil Rubens Barrichello 11 Williams-Cosworth 1:26.910
20 germany Timo Glock 24 Virgin-Cosworth 1:27.315
21 italy Vitantonio Liuzzi 23 Hispania-Cosworth 1:27.809
22 india Narain Karthikeyan 22 Hispania-Cosworth 1:27.908
23 belgium Jerome d'Ambrosio 25 Virgin-Cosworth 1:28.556
24 germany Nick Heidfeld 9 Renault

Red Bulls 1-2 again only this time it's Webber in pole and Seb in second place
It gets boring....

Good thing Alonso came in between the two McLarens.
I trust Kamui will make up lots of places during race time.
Will see what pit stop strategy the teams will use in the race.

Bad karma for Nick Heidfeld and the fire. Quite impressive to see the car in flames.
Good thing he came out of it without any burns.

  
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B747forever
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 1:34 pm

Great job by Webber, but remember that he had KERS while Vettel's didnt work.

Very happy that Alonso finally finished better than 5th  
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 1:42 pm

Interesting qualifying but kind of predictable under current conditions.

Interesting strategies, did Eric Boullier con Ferrai and possibly Mercedes into burning a set of soft tyres in Q1?

Renault fire in P3 might put the spotlight right back on forward exhausts and blown difusers... might be why Eric Boullier is saying little about the causes of the conflagration.

Couthard and Brundle came up with a concept to inject life back into qualifying, an extra set of soft tyres for the top 10 that can only be used in the last 5 min of q3, not sure I care that much, I'm just happy the racing is good!

Q strategy from Mercedes seemed strange, use extra softs in Q1 then turn a single unnecessary lap in Q3 on hard tyres.. didn't make sense to me
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bill142
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 4:34 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 12):
Renault fire in P3 might put the spotlight right back on forward exhausts and blown difusers... might be why Eric Boullier is saying little about the causes of the conflagration.

I think Renault are blowing a bit of hot air with claiming that it was just the exhaust. I think they had some kind of fluid leak onto the exhaust which caused it to go up in flames.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sat May 21, 2011 10:33 pm

You know, all this talk about how bad Schumacher has been since he returned, but I don't see nearly as much on how bad Rubens has been. He's getting kicked around by a pay driver. Perhaps its time for him to step away as well.

-DiamondFlyer
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 10:16 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 14):
but I don't see nearly as much on how bad Rubens has been.

Rubens is not a 7 time world champion making a highly touted and perhaps overly optimistic comeback.
Having said that I agree he is likely past his best.

Back to Schumi, I read with interest some comments made recently by Johnny Herbert, Schumi's team mate during the 2 championship years of 1994 &5.
His opinion is that MS has lost none of his natural talent skill or reflexes, just the new crop of drivers are better.

I can imagine there are legions of MS fans that find this concept incomprehensible but that is likely the reality.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 11:18 am

Seb is a really nice boy but I am getting tired of constantly seeing the Red Bulls at the top. I hope something will happen today so that Hammy, Alonso, Jenson and others will get the speedy bug and leave the Red Bulls in the back.

Not sure about Schumi. He is a used old German driver certainly not deprived of talent but still a used old German driver.

I hope Kamui will pass a few and then a few more even.

Go Kamui... Just Do It!!!!



                       
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na
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 11:22 am

I´ll certainly wont watch another Vettel/Webber 1-2 today. I´m taking my bike out of the garage for a ride now.

Good luck to Ferrari, Schumacher and Hamilton. Wake me up when this boring F1 season starts to become interesting.
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 11:24 am

Seems Schumi himself has become a Schumi booster..

Quoting Autosport:
'Schumacher: Success a matter of time"
..Michael Schumacher is convinced that he and Mercedes now have all the ingredients they need to be successful in Formula 1 and remains utterly confident that his squad can be a title-winner....

yeah right, Michael, deliver and we may become believers!!

The team may become winners** but I suspect the name on the trophy will be Rosberg, not Schumacher.

Cheers

** But there is some work to do!
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ltbewr
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 11:41 am

Well, today race is about to start, (7:30 AM EST) it will be shown live on our Speed Channel. I thnk I will watch it as no NASCAR today (they had their 'all-star' non-points race last night) and I haven't seen an F-1 race since last year. Looks like nice weather. I hope I can see the GP Monoco live next week, although that is the same day (Sunday) as our Indy 500 and NASCAR 'World' 600 at night, may be a little too much racing to watch for one day although I may miss part of the Indy 500 due to ceremonies in my home town for Memorial Day.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 12:10 pm

Fernando Alonso... he he....
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 12:25 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 20):
Fernando Alonso... he he....

A great start by Alonso!
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 12:51 pm

Kamui not going anywhere today. Not his day obviously. Must be something with the car or he would be ahead....   
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 12:57 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Must be something with the car or he would be ahead....

If a drivers success were related to the faith of their admirers, Kamui would be WDC by now!!  
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 1:03 pm

Looks like we are heading toward another Red Bool win... meh
Seb is a wonderful boy but I want to see something other than RedBools and McLarens...


 

Heikki crashed. He looks OK though...
51st lap??

Wrong tyre choice with hard tyres for Alonso
Stefano Domenicali brrrrrrrr.........

...
Massa skid on the gravel... finito!!!

[Edited 2011-05-22 06:34:41]
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MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 1:46 pm

FINAL ORDER OF TOP 10:

Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Webber, Alonso, Schumacher, Rosberg, Heidfeld, Perez, Kobayashi.

  
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 1:48 pm

Yet another win for Vettel but he did have to work for it!!

When was the last time 5th place was lapped in a GP???

Cheers
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racko
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 1:49 pm

Haha, it seems like Vettel enjoyed those last laps a lot more than Hamilton.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 1:55 pm

Another Vettel win. I hope this season won't be a repeat of 2004  

Anyway, congrats to him and Red Bull.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 2:19 pm

Yes! Two of my favourite drivers finished 1-2. Apart from yet another ordinary day for Williams, I couldn't be happier with the result  

Well done to Vettel and Hamilton. I really enjoyed that battle between two of the best drivers in F1 over the last few laps. Now, that's racing, and what F1 is all about. This race hasn't been quite as exciting as last race in Turkey, and no doubt Monaco would be even worse when it comes to the ability to overtake ... but I think overall, with the introduction of DRS and KERS, this season has been a success.
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 2:27 pm

Well, whatever next? An exciting Spanish GP for once! Great battle between Vettel & Hamilton. Solid drive by Button on a different strategy.

But, oh dear Ferrari. Despite Alonso monstering the start and taking the lead, for both cars to be lapped shows a huge gulf between them and the top two teams.
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codeshare
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Sun May 22, 2011 4:41 pm

As for a Barcelona GP this wasn't a boring procession.
Super start by Alonso, too bad he only made it 5th at the end, but he gave his fans much joy and for quite some time Ferrari was delivering (not Massa though), they still lack pace to RBR and McL.
Bad luck for Button at the beginning but crawling up with good strategy to finish 3rd  
Star of the race for me Heidfeld - doing the... Heidfeld - constant good pace from 24th ! to 8th . Nice.
For me Lewis deserved the win, but just didn't have that extra 0.2 seconds to overtake Vettel. So the Bulls not that fast ? Maybe...

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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 pm

if we needed proof of what the Ferrari is capable this season, yesterday left us without a doubt. Alonso made a great start, impressive really, and from then we all knew he would not be able to keep the position. Season over, I just can't see Ferrari cutting down the difference form the RBR's especially (and Mclaren too). I justhope that we'll be able to win one race, so the season was not completely useless. And Massa ... sorry but he has to go. I feel bad for the guy, but he is just terrible.
Also, a special mention to the team in general; hey have a slower car, but they also suck at the pit stops. If the competition is 1s faster than you in every pit stop, therte is no hope at all.
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Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Mon May 23, 2011 2:05 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 32):
Season over, I just can't see Ferrari cutting down the difference form the RBR's especially (and Mclaren too).

Ah, my friend, if I recall you were making the same plaintive cries this time last year, and how many points were there in it at the flag in Abu Dhabi?
Having said that despite flashes of glory like lap 1 in Barcelona they do seem to be floundering even more than usual.

Nevermind all is well because apparently Stefano is going to get Pirelli to change the construction of the tyres because they do not suit the Ferrari... tyre construction does not seem an issue for other teams but SD thinks they do not suit his squad so they should be changed.. go figure!
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Mon May 23, 2011 3:43 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 33):
Ah, my friend, if I recall you were making the same plaintive cries this time last year, and how many points were there in it at the flag in Abu Dhabi?

you are right, and I was thinking of that when posting, but in order to have a minimum chance, we need Ferrari to make a 180º turn in its performance, AND the RBR's in theirs. The difference is just too big, and unlike last season, RBR is making no mistakes at all.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 33):
tyre construction does not seem an issue for other teams but SD thinks they do not suit his squad so they should be changed.. go figure!

interesting, I remember everyone blaming Ferrari when all the Michelin teams decided they were not fit to run in Indianapolis. In that case, all but three teams wanted to change everything, and yet somehow, Ferrari was "guilty" of having Bridgestone ....
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Mon May 23, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Kamui not going anywhere today. Not his day obviously. Must be something with the car or he would be ahead....

He did have a puncture early on.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
The difference is just too big, and unlike last season, RBR is making no mistakes at all.

Not yet anyway. If McLaren get ahead and put pressure on them and with their continued KERS failures, which will see a car parked sooner or later, we could see them make some mistakes.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 33):
Nevermind all is well because apparently Stefano is going to get Pirelli to change the construction of the tyres because they do not suit the Ferrari... tyre construction does not seem an issue for other teams but SD thinks they do not suit his squad so they should be changed.. go figure!

So Pirelli will become the new Ferrari International Assistance?   
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
I remember everyone blaming Ferrari when all the Michelin teams decided they were not fit to run in Indianapolis. In that case, all but three teams wanted to change everything, and yet somehow, Ferrari was "guilty" of having Bridgestone ....

In that case, Ferrari were the dominant customer of Bridgestone F1 and could be expected to have some influence in a multi supplier situation. The current situation with a single supplier should provide no special privileges for Ferrari.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
all but three teams wanted to change

"all but three.... that in your books doesn't count but the wishes of one team does?

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 34):
Ferrari was "guilty" of having Bridgestone ....

Ferrari were not guilty of having Bridgestone, Ferrari was guilty of pressuring the authorities into ignoring the concerns of the "all but three" and earning themselves the hollowest victory in F1 history. A victory that not only earnt MS and Farrrari an undeserved third place in their respective championships but it destroyed F1 in the USA for a decade at least(possibly much longer)
I accept the entire debacle was caused by a huge screw up on the part of Michelin but Ferrari were in a position to strike a grand blow for the sport but their always evident self-interests ruled the day, as it appears today with their discussions with Pirelli.
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 2:30 am

Quoting bill142 (Reply 35):
Not yet anyway. If McLaren get ahead and put pressure on them and with their continued KERS failures, which will see a car parked sooner or later, we could see them make some mistakes.

possibly, but for Ferrari, it would still be a too little too late situation, even if they can get somehow to have a faster car. If RBR starts losing points, the Mclarens will be there, but not Alonso, at least not from what we've seen so far.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
"all but three.... that in your books doesn't count but the wishes of one team does?
Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
Ferrari was guilty of pressuring the authorities into ignoring the concerns of the "all but three" and earning themselves the hollowest victory in F1 history

No, in any case, Michelin were guilty of that. Why should the teams that had Brdgestone change everything because Michelin screwed up and were not able to deliver proper tyres?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
I accept the entire debacle was caused by a huge screw up on the part of Michelin but Ferrari were in a position to strike a grand blow for the sport but their always evident self-interests ruled the day

And do what exactly? Ferrari was fighting for the championship back then, and you suggest they should have accepted changes and give the points away because Michelin didnt do their job? Why didn't the Michelin teams race anyway and have a couple of extra pit stops or something like that?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 11:55 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 37):
Ferrari was fighting for the championship back then

They actually weren't, even with the "gimme" points from Indy they were never really in contention.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 37):
Why should the teams that had Brdgestone change everything because Michelin screwed up and were not able to deliver proper tyres?

Because sometimes looking at the bigger picture can be a good thing, the decisions made at Indy in '05 virtually destroyed F1 in the USA and did it much harm elsewhere.

I guess we will never agree on that situation...


Back to 2011, seems RBR are up to their old tricks with the rivalry between the two sides of their garage looking more intense than against the other teams.
In Q3 with MW seemingly safe on pole and SV safely in grid 2, it appears Seb's folks were preparing to send him out on a 2nd run in an attempt to unseat MW from pole. Seems it took a serious amount of argument and pit wall wrangling from Mark's people to stop Seb breaking an agreement the team had apparently made after China.
Guess the sweetness and harmony at RBR was only an illusion and was never going to last.
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 12:16 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 38):
Because sometimes looking at the bigger picture can be a good thing, the decisions made at Indy in '05 virtually destroyed F1 in the USA and did it much harm elsewhere

But there's the mistake: Michelin failing to deliver the proper tyres destroyed F1 in the US. Again, why didn't the Michelin teams race anyway?


About the current season, Banco Santander CEO apparently had a bis argument with Domenicali this weekend .. I guess he's not too happy that the € 40 million in sposorship are not making the bank look too good.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 39):
But there's the mistake: Michelin failing to deliver the proper tyres destroyed F1 in the US. Again, why didn't the Michelin teams race anyway?

Let me get this straight, you're advocating teams running a race on tires that have a known failure issue caused due to a defect? Seems outright foolish to me.

Hopefully somebody (anybody) at this point can come up with something to constantly run with RBR. It will be interesting when the rules are changed about the idle exhaust across the diffuser.

-DiamondFlyer
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codeshare
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 39):
About the current season, Banco Santander CEO apparently had a bis argument with Domenicali this weekend .. I guess he's not too happy that the € 40 million in sposorship are not making the bank look too good.

Looks better on the McLarens  

On PF-1 they mentioned RBR accusing Ferrari of somehow listening to their radio transmissions.... feeling scared... nope.

So far this season we have seen a few types of overtaking:
1) car with KERS vs car with no KERS
2) car on soft tyres vs car on hard tyres
3) fresh vs old tyres (which should be like 2b really)
4) oops I went to wide on the turn  
5) DRS vs car infront.

...write in yours...

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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 3:13 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 38):
In Q3 with MW seemingly safe on pole and SV safely in grid 2, it appears Seb's folks were preparing to send him out on a 2nd run

Yes, certainly looked that way, but ...

Quote:
in an attempt to unseat MW from pole.

Was it? Or was it merely to cover for the possibility that one of the other teams might snatch pole from their noses? Red Bull went out early, but once it was clear that neither McLaren nor Ferrari were close enough to be a real threat, Vettel got out of his car.

Like Brundle said during the commentary, it would've been an incredibly stupid move by the team to waste another set of tyres in a vain attempt to get pole, for which you don't get any points. If Red Bull had done that, they would've shot themselves in the foot and Hamilton would've no doubt won the race in a repeat of the exact same scenario as in China.
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 3:23 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 40):
Let me get this straight, you're advocating teams running a race on tires that have a known failure issue caused due to a defect? Seems outright foolish to me.

running a normal race would have been foolish, but running a race with a couple of extra pit stops for the Michelin teams would have been ok. But in no way it is right to accuse Ferrari of ruining F1 in the US because they did their job. Blame it on those that couldn't race, not the ones that could.
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codeshare
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 3:35 pm

interesting bit on RBRs race vs qualy performance and the use of exhaust: http://www.thef1times.com/community/display/00240

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CXB77L
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 43):
running a normal race would have been foolish, but running a race with a couple of extra pit stops for the Michelin teams would have been ok. But in no way it is right to accuse Ferrari of ruining F1 in the US because they did their job. Blame it on those that couldn't race, not the ones that could.

  

I'm not a Ferrari fan, but I have to agree with this. How can it possibly be Ferrari's fault that the teams running on Michelin tyres at the time chose to pull out of the race? Is it their fault that Ferrari, Jordan (and one other team I can't remember) were running Bridgestones that season and Bridgestone did deliver a tyre that was safe enough to race on? I think if there's anyone to blame, it's Michelin. They stuffed up big time.

I'm a Williams fan, they were running on Michelin tyres at the time, and they, along with all other Michelin teams, had to pull out of the race. Sure, that sucked, but I certainly don't blame Ferrari, Jordan and that other team for actually racing and putting on a show as best they can for those who purchased tickets in advance to watch the race. It was Michelin that didn't come to the show.
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 36):
Ferrari were not guilty of having Bridgestone, Ferrari was guilty of pressuring the authorities into ignoring the concerns of the "all but three" and earning themselves the hollowest victory in F1 history. A victory that not only earnt MS and Farrrari an undeserved third place in their respective championships but it destroyed F1 in the USA for a decade at least(possibly much longer)
I accept the entire debacle was caused by a huge screw up on the part of Michelin but Ferrari were in a position to strike a grand blow for the sport but their always evident self-interests ruled the day

I completely agree with that statement.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 46):
I completely agree with that statement

So let me try to understand what you agree with; Ferrari was in evident self interest for running the race, while the Michelin teams decided no to participate (with extra pit stops or whatever) becuase they were obviously interested in the sport.
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 47):
So let me try to understand what you agree with; Ferrari was in evident self interest for running the race, while the Michelin teams decided no to participate (with extra pit stops or whatever) becuase they were obviously interested in the sport.


You read and understand strange stuff...

Let me try to be clear: several proprosals have been made by Michelin and the Michelin teams, and all were refused by Ferrari. Although I understand that it was not Ferrari's fault, I would have appreciated that they worked on a solution to allow the race to be run. It would have been great for sportsmanship and for Ferrari's image in the US and worldwide.

Instead of that, they acted like usual under Jean Todt's cold and pragmatic management.

That's what I regret in this story.

[Edited 2011-05-24 10:30:21]
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2011: Gran Premio De Espana

Tue May 24, 2011 9:30 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 48):
Let me try to be clear: several proprosals have been made by Michelin and the Michelin teams

because they screwed up in the first place.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 48):
Although I understand that it was not Ferrari's fault, I would have appreciated that they worked on a solution to allow the race to be run

therefore giving a benefit to the Michelin teams, while the teams that had Bridgestone would have to adapt despite doing their job? The solution should have come form Michelin. It didn't, so at best, the races should have been suspended, but that would not have been fair because the teams that had the proper tyres needed the points.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 48):
It would have been great for sportsmanship and for Ferrari's image

So wait, why not have all the crappy teams in the grid ask the top teams to change their engines, so they can be slower, and therefore be better sports ...
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