na
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Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:19 am

Bad or useless products or products with exaggerated price tags dont sell in the long term. But there are exceptions of the rule, and whose success is only owed to great marketing and advertising.

The most famous that comes to my mind is the Red Bull drink. Come on, Red Bull tastes awful, is very expensive and its wake-up effect isnt much higher than coffee, if it has such at all. So why are people buying tons of it, so much so that the inventor is a billionaire and owner of the currently most successful F1 team?

Please feel free to add "your" successful "bad" product.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:57 am

Almost any 'super luxury' name brand clothing, shoes and clothing product like Louie Vitton, Gucci, and the like. What can a purse costing $1000's do any different from one that costs $80 except maybe $20 more in materials and workmanship and $100's more spent on marketing. What is the real difference from a pair or $50 jeans vs. ones costing $100's unless you have an ideal body?

Most people who buy a BMW, M-B or other premium car will never be in a situation or have the ability to use thier full abililties of handling or performance just commuting to work or shopping.

Perhaps the most useless product and indeed one of the most unhealthy where marketing is or has been the driving force to make people buy is cigarettes, especially the Marlboro brand. You don't need cigarettes to survive, indeed they cause great harm in the long run, but they became popular in marketing to show you were 'sophicated', and 'adult', and so on.
 
Fabo
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 12:04 pm

I dont find RedBull bad. At least for me, the taste is OK, the price is acceptable and the waking effect is comparatively better than either coffee or another cheaper brands of energy drink.

What I cant quite fathom is the price of some apparell. I get why someone would pay 500 euro or more for a quality suit, but I fail to see what is, for example. worth 200 euros on Ed Hardy t-shirt (yes those were that expensive around here, at least for a while)
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Birdwatching
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 12:39 pm

I think an obvious candidate for this is any Apple product.

You get the same performance / specifications as the other brand, but you pay about 2x as much. Perfect example is the iPhone 4 / Samsung Galaxy smartphone, as well as the laptops. But they manage to build a lifestyle / feeling around the product that makes you want to own it to feel good.

Soren   
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StarAC17
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
The most famous that comes to my mind is the Red Bull drink. Come on, Red Bull tastes awful, is very expensive and its wake-up effect isnt much higher than coffee, if it has such at all. So why are people buying tons of it, so much so that the inventor is a billionaire and owner of the currently most successful F1 team?

It tastes ok, some things are better and some things are worse but it has really good marketing. I find in funny that they have to have a slogan to cover their ass if someone actually believes their slogan and tries to fly.

For anyone who doesn't already know the slogan is "Redbull gives you wings!!"

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):

Almost any 'super luxury' name brand clothing, shoes and clothing product like Louie Vitton, Gucci, and the like. What can a purse costing $1000's do any different from one that costs $80 except maybe $20 more in materials and workmanship and $100's more spent on marketing

I don't really see these things marketed that much, but I agree with your point 100%. Its all for status and the people who can afford it are going to buy it because their friend or rival has one.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
Perhaps the most useless product and indeed one of the most unhealthy where marketing is or has been the driving force to make people buy is cigarettes, especially the Marlboro brand

I thought it is now illegal to market them.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
I think an obvious candidate for this is any Apple product.

You get the same performance / specifications as the other brand, but you pay about 2x as much. Perfect example is the iPhone 4 / Samsung Galaxy smartphone, as well as the laptops. But they manage to build a lifestyle / feeling around the product that makes you want to own it to feel good.

You are now in Klaus's bad books   

I do agree though and how apple advertised against PC's were like political attack ads saying how much the rival sucked without really saying what was better about their product, although they are amusing adds.

They have to advertise now (I really didn't see much out of them pre Iphone) because they didn't pioneer the smartphone and its not a bad product but as you say there is better for less especially against the Ipad. Its working well for them so they get the credit and now they are the evil empire in the way that MS was in the 90's, just not with computers but with their gadgets.

The one thing I can add to this is beer, the companies that advertise make the worst stuff (at least in North America) Bud, Miller, Coors Lite, Labatt Blue, and Molson Canadian are all pretty crappy. The only remotely good beers that are advertised in North America (mostly Canada) IMO are Alexander Keith's and Corona (which is good in the right environment).

In Australia the only add I see on TV repeatedly are Tooheys extra dry an Pure Blond which I find ok but there is a lot of stuff that is heaps better.

The good beers really don't advertise outside of the occasional poster or billboard, and most good beers are from micorbrewers and are discovered through word of mouth.
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Northwest727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 2:18 pm

Just about any name brand

People pay big bucks extra for name brand food, gas, pharmaceuticals, etc., when the generic product is just as good for a fraction of the cost.

Practical side, why pay $2 a bottle more for Tylenol when you can get the store brand, with the same exact active ingredients. Same for gas. "Shell with Nitrogen?" All gas has some sort of nitrogen content in it, just Shell tries to market it beyond hell to make it look "clean," all for some of the most expensive gas there is (check gasbuddy.com if you don't believe me). Or Johnson and Johnson saying "According to clinical studies, our band-aid is better than the leading store brand." Really? If you paid a research firm to "study" that, you probably paid them to come up with a way to say that your $4/package more band-aid product is better. The list could go on and on...

Bottled Water

Unless you don't have access to it (third world country, deep woods, etc.), your tap water is the same as that outrageously marked up bottle of water you got in your hand. In fact, most bottled water is just bottled tap water anyways. Maybe run it past a UV light to say "its cleaner." But its a huge fad industry in the US.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:10 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
useless products or products with exaggerated price tags dont sell in the long term. But there are exceptions of the rule, and whose success is only owed to great marketing and advertising.

Shell V-Power. A perfect example of placebo effect, imho.
 
bohica
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:21 pm

Politicians - They have good marketing to get themselves elected to office. They all suck.
 
aloges
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:32 pm

fast food, soft drinks, cigarettes and so on

People know that those are bad for them if they don't live under rocks, they can easily buy or make better alternatives and yet, billions in advertising money guarantee a huge market for this stuff and another huge one for the pharmaceutical products needed to remedy their effects.
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NoUFO
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 5):
pharmaceuticals, etc., when the generic product is just as good for a fraction of the cost.

Pharmaceutical research is expensive and while this alone may not explain the price gap, a generic product can be cheaper than the original.

I go with that awfull stuff called Red Bull too.
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kanban
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 5):
pharmaceuticals, etc., when the generic product is just as good for a fraction of the cost.
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Pharmaceutical research is expensive and while this alone may not explain the price gap



most branding by pharmaceuticals is to pay for the advertising... surprising how may people go to the doctor's to get a prescription for something they saw advertised when they don't even have the symptoms...
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
The most famous that comes to my mind is the Red Bull drink. Come on, Red Bull tastes awful, is very expensive and its wake-up effect isnt much higher than coffee, if it has such at all. So why are people buying tons of it, so much so that the inventor is a billionaire and owner of the currently most successful F1 team?

I agree. It tastes like an horrible chemical sparkling cough medicine and does not do the job better than coffee. Not to mention that it's not the healthiest drink in the world...

BUT, they do a lot of motorsports sponsoring, so I like them. I don't drink their product but I like them  
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greaser
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
You get the same performance / specifications as the other brand, but you pay about 2x as much. Perfect example is the iPhone 4 / Samsung Galaxy smartphone, as well as the laptops. But they manage to build a lifestyle / feeling around the product that makes you want to own it to feel good.

I don't think that has as much to do with marketing as design. A lot of people diss Apple's customers because "you don't get good value" or "it's overpriced." I, like many others, purchase certain apple products because they are fantastically designed (aesthetically), their software is easy to navigate, and most importantly, they are a joy to use. The reason why Apple is so successful and others like Creative have fallen is because Apple understands that design is important, and that best value isn't always the best buy. I have used various competing products and they are often so complicated I can't be bothered to use 97% of their functions, and their design is so boring I'd rather not take it out in public. You take something very advanced, make it easy to use, and wonderful to look at. Then a little marketing to let the public know you sell it. I've never had met anyone who bought the iphone4 because of marketing. Everyone I know who bought one did after actually holding it, using it, be it a friend's or at the store.
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johns624
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 5:06 pm

Expensive watches. They don't keep time any better than my Timex.
 
BMI727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Come on, Red Bull tastes awful, is very expensive and its wake-up effect isnt much higher than coffee, if it has such at all.

It tastes alright and it isn't any more expensive than a Coke or something else.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
Most people who buy a BMW, M-B or other premium car will never be in a situation or have the ability to use thier full abililties of handling or performance just commuting to work or shopping.

Depends on where you work and shop. But those brands do work hard to make it worthwhile to own.

Quoting Fabo (Reply 2):
worth 200 euros on Ed Hardy t-shirt (yes those were that expensive around here, at least for a while)

That is a lot of money to spend, especially considering that you could accomplish the same with a simple "Hi, I'm a douche bag" badge.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
I think an obvious candidate for this is any Apple product.

Very much so. That and the arrogance of Jobs and Apple is rather off putting. Steve Jobs doesn't think I need Flash on my phone? I disagree, so he can take his iPhone and shove it. And I'll take whatever apps I please, not just ones they approve.

Quoting johns624 (Reply 13):
Expensive watches.

The problem with that is that all watches look the same from ten feet away.

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Please feel free to add "your" successful "bad" product.

Scion hands down. Toyota trying to design a car that appeals to young people, but as a young person, I'd be hard pressed to name a car I find less appealing. Meanwhile, Ford is still selling Mustangs as fast as they can make them and the new Camaro is a hit.
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san747
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 2):
I dont find RedBull bad. At least for me, the taste is OK, the price is acceptable and the waking effect is comparatively better than either coffee or another cheaper brands of energy drink.

Red Bull is actually the only energy drink I will consume, its the only one that doesn't taste absolutely disgusting to me.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
Almost any 'super luxury' name brand clothing, shoes and clothing product like Louie Vitton, Gucci, and the like. What can a purse costing $1000's do any different from one that costs $80 except maybe $20 more in materials and workmanship and $100's more spent on marketing. What is the real difference from a pair or $50 jeans vs. ones costing $100's unless you have an ideal body?

I've never understood that either, but I guess its because I've never had a lot of disposable income, so spending a lot on clothes just doesn't make sense to me.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
But they manage to build a lifestyle / feeling around the product that makes you want to own it to feel good.

Apple doesn't sell products, it sells an undeserved sense of self-importance and superiority.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):

Very much so. That and the arrogance of Jobs and Apple is rather off putting. Steve Jobs doesn't think I need Flash on my phone? I disagree, so he can take his iPhone and shove it. And I'll take whatever apps I please, not just ones they approve.

I agree- the obnoxious Apple culture clearly starts at the top.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):

Scion hands down. Toyota trying to design a car that appeals to young people, but as a young person, I'd be hard pressed to name a car I find less appealing.

My girlfriend has a Scion TC (not the annoying boxy looking one), and it actually runs pretty well, good handling and performance. My biggest complaint with that car is that I'm 6'2" and it gets a little cramped in there with the low ceiling.
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goblin211
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 6:20 pm

Pretty much everything in retail. There's always some kind of better deal on the same product somewhere else--always!
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Fabo
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
Perhaps the most useless product and indeed one of the most unhealthy where marketing is or has been the driving force to make people buy is cigarettes, especially the Marlboro brand. You don't need cigarettes to survive, indeed they cause great harm in the long run, but they became popular in marketing to show you were 'sophicated', and 'adult', and so on.

I'm not trying to advocate smoking here, but there is indeed a difference in taste between M's and cheaper brands. I will grant you that marketing, advertisements and otherwise, does do the companies much good.

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 5):
Bottled Water

Unless you don't have access to it (third world country, deep woods, etc.), your tap water is the same as that outrageously marked up bottle of water you got in your hand. In fact, most bottled water is just bottled tap water anyways. Maybe run it past a UV light to say "its cleaner." But its a huge fad industry in the US.

I don't really know how much of an issue that is in the US, but I will advocate for bottled water at least a bit. Bottled water is for ex. practical when touring somewhere, you grab a 2lt. bottle in the morning in the convenience store and walk around the city all day, for example. Also, I am a great fan of sparkling water. You won't get that from tap.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
That is a lot of money to spend, especially considering that you could accomplish the same with a simple "Hi, I'm a douche bag" badge.

Spot on! 
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Northwest727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 17):
Bottled water is for ex. practical when touring somewhere, you grab a 2lt. bottle in the morning in the convenience store and walk around the city all day, for example.

You can simply buy a bottle of water once and refill it when its empty, over and over. No need to keep buying a fresh new bottle of water every time you're done with another bottle.

Quoting Fabo (Reply 17):
Also, I am a great fan of sparkling water. You won't get that from tap.

Understandable.
 
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2707200X
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 7:27 pm

How about the Smart Car, it can fit on top of your bed and it costs north of $25,000.
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aloges
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 19):
it costs north of $25,000.

It starts at $10,990.
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Luftfahrer
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 8:50 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 5):
Bottled Water

Seeing you live in the US, I am surprised to see you can actually enjoy your tap water! Wherever I've been to in the States, I found there was largely too much chlorine added to make it really drinkable. Even at home, I usually stick to bottled water, because it tastes so much better.
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Braniff747SP
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 8:59 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Scion hands down. Toyota trying to design a car that appeals to young people, but as a young person,

I agree. As a young person, (as well as someone, that, in a couple of years, will fall into their target demographic) I don't find them apealing- I like Toyota, and I would have no problem driving a normal one, but the Scions I think just look cheao and crappy. I'll take a Corolla any day over one of the Scions.

As for other brands...There are many things that are very well marketed, but are not good... I'll agree with many of you; Red Bull is one of them.
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Fabo
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 9:11 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 18):
You can simply buy a bottle of water once and refill it when its empty, over and over.

Not quite always, when your average filthy public toilet costs more than said bottle... But I will grant you that. Truth is, I always buy my water sparkling, so I never as much as thought of refilling.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 21):
Even at home, I usually stick to bottled water, because it tastes so much better.

While I find bottled water taste a bit better than tap water here in Prague, it is not better enough for me to ignore tap water. And back home... tap water is far better than any bottled water ever, period.
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2707200X
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 20):
It starts at $10,990.

The $25.000 pricetag was at my local dealership about a year ago.   
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Birdwatching
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 9:22 pm

I hope I don't get a super duper ban for posting this, but... A.net first class membership? You get to view the site ad free (tell you what, so do I) and you get the photos watermark free. The 10mb allowance for personal photos... oh please...
I could understand the wish to support the web site back when it was run by Johan in his free time, but now it's a huge dotcom business running it.
My point is... throw in some more goodies and I'll consider it!

Soren   
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Molykote
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 9:25 pm

I can't think of many truly terrible products that are kept around by marketing alone. I think it's more fair to point out the "artificial value" that marketing ads to a hard product...

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Bose. The QC2 earphone isn't a bad product, but everything else I've listed to is a terrible value boosted by marketing.

I also have to vote for Apple. The products themselves are ok, but the value offered sucks (in my non-expert estimation). I know some techie friends of mine love Apple products for their own geeky reasons. However, it seems like tons of people are buying them because they are stylish. Again - not bad product, but bad value bolstered by marketing. I've never had one of my ~15 die hard Apple friends defend the products on the basis of value. I will note an exception that I think iPods/iPhones are pretty good deals. They don't cost too much more than the competition, don't cost much in absolute dollars, and have a larger support/integration network when it comes to hotel docks, car integration, etc.

Although I know nothing about this discipline, I do laugh at the cost of high end hair styling. I might look nice, but looks significantly worse after a shower and looks firmly "normal" after a week or two. This all reminds of my "can't lose" stock index based on women's vanity.... but that's another topic.   
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Asturias
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 9:57 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 8):
People know that those are bad for them if they don't live under rocks, they can easily buy or make better alternatives and yet, billions in advertising money guarantee a huge market for this stuff and another huge one for the pharmaceutical products needed to remedy their effects.

In what world do people avoid things that they know are bad for them? I don't know why you didn't include drinking alcohol, suntanning and wake up in the morning in your list of bad things. They'll kill ya.

Also blaming the popularity of these "unhealthy" things on marketing is very myopic, since it would seem to me that people eat fast food because it's cheaper and they don't have time to make 'real' food having two jobs, or that they smoke because it relieves them of stress and it is a social activity.

Unhealthy things aren't overrated, they're just unhealthy. They perform as advertised. $100 cheesburger is overrated and so are gold-infused cigarettes. And so is the "holier-than-thou" PC propaganda by modern society and medical workers. Highly overrated.

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Northwest727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting Fabo (Reply 23):
Not quite always, when your average filthy public toilet costs more than said bottle... But I will grant you that. Truth is, I always buy my water sparkling, so I never as much as thought of refilling.

Not sure what you are getting at...never seen a public toilet you have to pay for.

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 21):
Seeing you live in the US, I am surprised to see you can actually enjoy your tap water! Wherever I've been to in the States, I found there was largely too much chlorine added to make it really drinkable. Even at home, I usually stick to bottled water, because it tastes so much better.

Having lived in several cities now, I have noticed some differences in chlorine content of the water...but after a week, you get used to it, and hardly notice it.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 19):
How about the Smart Car, it can fit on top of your bed and it costs north of $25,000.

If you ever get the oppertunity to drive in Hamburg you'll understand why they invented the Smart.

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Fabo
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:11 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 28):
Not sure what you are getting at...never seen a public toilet you have to pay for.

Haven't been around Prague or Budapest or so then, have you? Truth is, I have a hard time remembering seeing a free access public toilet... (not counting restaurants, airports, hotels and similar, obviously) - but I have only been around Europe so far.
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Aaron747
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:38 pm

For certain ladies' accessories, it's definitely all in the marketing. Every housewife in Japan has a Vuitton wallet, handbag/purse, and whatever the F else. My wife broke the mold a bit as she prefers Dior, but it's all overpriced crap to me. They won't even buy the knock-offs because "it's not the real thing". Talk about gullibility  

There are some excellent retailers in Japan who sell suits that are made in China to a high degree of quality. I have a closet full of great-looking suits that have cost cumulatively around $1500. Meanwhile brand-conscious young men here who want to impress at a new job will not wear anything made in China, and will plunk down the bulk of their savings for suits from Armani or D&G. The only difference is they'll have just one for what I paid for six, and I don't have to look like a chump wearing the same jacket and pants every day.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Sun May 22, 2011 11:38 pm

Quoting na (Thread starter):
Please feel free to add "your" successful "bad" product.

Oh man... don't get me started..

Apple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dyson
Cirrus
Bose
Did I say Apple?
Lexus, Acura, Infinity and all of the other wannabe Asian luxury cars from their parent companies.
Starbucks
75% of what's sold at Wal-Mart
Midas, Meineke, Jiffy lube etc etc etc
75% of what's sold in Autozone, Pep-Boys, Kragen, etc etc etc
Don't forget Apple!!!
Any hybrid car
EVERYTHING sold in Sky Mall, The Sharper Image, etc etc
HP Printers/Computers
Dell, for that matter

And I'll probably get shot for this, and rightly so, but: Southwest                     

I know I have plenty more but can't think of any ATM...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):


Most people who buy a BMW, M-B or other premium car will never be in a situation or have the ability to use thier full abililties of handling or performance just commuting to work or shopping.

I'll agree to an extent. It makes my blood boil when random mid-life crisis types of people buy an M3/C63 AMG/RS4 and they drive them like old ladies ALL the time   

However, at least they get a properly built car, and not some recycled plastic bottle with wheels.

At least when I go to my weekly autocross events I do get to see a handful of people with their brand new M3s and what not, and they perform admirably, even in the hands of a crappy driver. In contrast all the idiotic muscle cars are all over the place knocking cones left and right, even with the better drivers.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Ford is still selling Mustangs as fast as they can make them and the new Camaro is a hit.

Yet more examples of successful bad products   

Quoting Molykote (Reply 26):

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Bose. The QC2 earphone isn't a bad product, but everything else I've listed to is a terrible value boosted by marketing.

Bose (like Apple) used to make properly good products. Before the mid 90s they were a much smaller company and stuck to their niche and had a very loyal clientele, and were fine with the status quo. My dad has some 40 year old Bose studio monitors in the living room and they still kick ass even for today's standards. Fast forward to the late 90s and Bose (like Apple) started putting MUCH more emphasis on marketing and building cute looking overpriced products that never outperformed and sometimes seriously underperformed compared to competitors offerings, all the while costing well over twice as much. If you go to any audiophile forum you'll find people HATE Bose.
 
RJLover
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 12:15 am

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 5):
Unless you don't have access to it (third world country, deep woods, etc.), your tap water is the same as that outrageously marked up bottle of water you got in your hand. In fact, most bottled water is just bottled tap water anyways. Maybe run it past a UV light to say "its cleaner." But its a huge fad industry in the US.

When I lived in Calgary I DESPISED the tap water there (very, very hard water). I had to buy bottled water all the time. If you look carefully you can find it pretty cheap. I never paid more then $.10 per bottle of water (plus $.5 deposit, but I got that back).

Back home in Victoria and here in Halifax, I have absolutely no problem with tap water.

EDIT: I am well aware that most bottled water is just tap water, but what ever they do to it makes it taste much better!

[Edited 2011-05-22 17:17:21]
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elbandgeek
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 12:16 am

A lot of this is subjective, but dear god yes about Apple. Everytime I see one of their commercials I want to punch my TV because of the absolute levels of smug self-importance. I don't even find them asthetically appealing even. They take what would be clean, minimalist hardware, slap a giant logo on it and their software looks like it was made by fisher price. It's all too glossy, overdesigned, and using it feels like an insult to my intelligence. I'm sorry but I don't need to be babied through my phone so why are they wasting screen space with a virtual back button when they could *gasp* put in a physical one, or maybe a notification system I can chose to ignore if I don't feel the need to stop what I'm doing to act on it. Every other smartphone has figured this out but they are so full of themselves they won't change and their marketing makes people believe that their horrible design choices are actually better.
 
Molykote
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 4:01 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 32):

I'll agree to an extent. It makes my blood boil when random mid-life crisis types of people buy an M3/C63 AMG/RS4 and they drive them like old ladies ALL the time   

However, at least they get a properly built car, and not some recycled plastic bottle with wheels.

They subsidize research for cars I can afford and/or provide for gently driven used examples.....
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
na
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
It tastes alright and it isn't any more expensive than a Coke or something else.

In Germany Red Bull is about three times more expensive than Coke (a RB can costs roughly $ 2,50 here).
Seems to be another case where Germans have to pay much while they sell cheap in the US, same as cars (German cars are up to 45% cheaper in the US than in the homeland!!!), Apple products (roughly 40% higher prices than in the US...)
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 3:11 pm

HEAD ON! Just apply it to the forehead!

Quoting san747 (Reply 15):
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
But they manage to build a lifestyle / feeling around the product that makes you want to own it to feel good.

Apple doesn't sell products, it sells an undeserved sense of self-importance and superiority.

You know, the same could be said for crack dealers.
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san747
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 5:11 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 37):

You know, the same could be said for crack dealers.

I'm trying to understand the analogy. Are crack users generally obnoxious and think they're smarter and/or cooler than others because they use crack?
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Mon May 23, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting san747 (Reply 38):

I'm trying to understand the analogy. Are crack users generally obnoxious and think they're smarter and/or cooler than others because they use crack?

Crack dealers sell crack. Those that take crack will have a sense of self-importance and superiority (although, on the outside, they are just stoned out of their minds.)

Really, I shouldn't have had to spell that out.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
BMI727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 15):
My girlfriend has a Scion TC (not the annoying boxy looking one), and it actually runs pretty well, good handling and performance

What can a Scion TC do that a Celica couldn't? Of course, releasing the xB as a different brand was a good idea, since badging it as a Toyota here could do irreparable damage to the brand, but if you are afraid the model will damage Toyota's reputation, you probably shouldn't be selling it at all.

Just as a note to Japanese car manufacturers, please keep your quirky (when I say quirky I mean ugly underperforming overgrown golf carts) home market models in your home market and only bring the real cars over here.
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2707200X
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 1:58 am

Ink cartridges even at Target can cost more than $60.
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CplKlinger
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 32):
HP Printers/Computers
Dell, for that matter

I have to agree on the HP Printers. All of the ones I have even owned have been junkers. I currently have an Epson Workforce 630 and hope to never part with it. Simply awesome. I've owned some Hp computers, and they've been all right. The ones they usually sold to businesses are awesomely built.

Dells.... Let me tell you about Dell. I just started a side business recently fixing computers. Out of the past 5 jobs, 4 have been Dells. One bad screen, two bad HDD's, and one that was simply fried (granted, it was ancient). My wife has a Dell (that she never lets me live down the fact that I chose it) that has been through and HDD, screen, and now a battery in only 9 months. And the battery went bad 5 minutes after the tech fixed it last week (I tried, but couldn't convince them to just send me the screen). If it doesn't fix it, I'm asking for a new laptop, nay, demanding one.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 5:40 am

Two bad products immediately jump to mind:

1 - The Snuggie (marketed as "America's favorite blanket with sleeves"). If you're not familiar with this product, check out this website: http://www.mysnuggiestore.com

2 - The Mini Cooper subcompact car (built by BMW) - with the self-destructing clutch and transmission. Two friends have this car, and both of them had clutches replaced before 10,000 miles was on the odometer.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Northwest727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 11:45 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 32):
HP Printers/Computers
Dell, for that matter
Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 42):
Dells.... Let me tell you about Dell. I just started a side business recently fixing computers. Out of the past 5 jobs, 4 have been Dells. One bad screen, two bad HDD's, and one that was simply fried (granted, it was ancient). My wife has a Dell (that she never lets me live down the fact that I chose it) that has been through and HDD, screen, and now a battery in only 9 months. And the battery went bad 5 minutes after the tech fixed it last week (I tried, but couldn't convince them to just send me the screen). If it doesn't fix it, I'm asking for a new laptop, nay, demanding one.

My company had to replace every Dell they had, due to a major design flaw. Optiplex 745 mini tower, none of them had cooling fans of any sort, and what do you know? All the on-board video cards failed at exactly the same time, from the capacitors exploding due to the extreme heat coming off of the processor heat sinks. Way to go Dell...

HP desktop printers don't last very long, and their ink is ridiculously expensive.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
It tastes like an horrible chemical sparkling cough medicine and does not do the job better than coffee. Not to mention that it's not the healthiest drink in the world...

To me Red Bull tastes like sparking grape flavored gum soda. Yuk. I think people also like it because of the can. It looks like it should contain some kind of alcoholic beverage instead of an energy drink.

My sister and her husband are both addicted to the stuff. Between them, they go through 12 cans a day!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
CplKlinger
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Reply 44):
My company had to replace every Dell they had, due to a major design flaw. Optiplex 745 mini tower, none of them had cooling fans of any sort, and what do you know? All the on-board video cards failed at exactly the same time, from the capacitors exploding due to the extreme heat coming off of the processor heat sinks. Way to go Dell...

And I'm willing to bet Dell waffled/didn't ofer any help on it? I've not had a lot of luck with Dell's customer no-service. I'm still waiting on the battery that was to take "2-3 business days" to get here. Now on Day 4. If it gets to Day 5, lord help them.
 
Northwest727
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 46):
And I'm willing to bet Dell waffled/didn't ofer any help on it? I've not had a lot of luck with Dell's customer no-service. I'm still waiting on the battery that was to take "2-3 business days" to get here. Now on Day 4. If it gets to Day 5, lord help them.

Dell did nothing. It sad when there are websites all over discussing the problem, even ones "selling" kits to fix what Dell "failed" to properly design: http://www.ccl-la.com/blog/index.php/dell-optiplex-745-repair/
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 42):
All of the ones I have even owned have been junkers.

Tell me about it. I went through 4 of them in college. They would all randomly die on me within a year, and I barely printed 300 pages a year. After I finally got fed up with them, I went to newegg and got a brother laser printer. 3 years and nearly 2000 pages later its still going very strong, never had a single paper jam, and it's still running on the factory cartridge! Best $60 I ever spent.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 43):

2 - The Mini Cooper subcompact car (built by BMW) - with the self-destructing clutch and transmission. Two friends have this car, and both of them had clutches replaced before 10,000 miles was on the odometer.

Sounds like they can't drive stick then. I know at least 3 people with them, one of them uses it to autocross frequently, not to mention the mini cooper is extremely popular in autox races, I see up to 10 of them every weekend at my events. Nobody ever complains about transmission problems. And all these cars are stock except for maybe the suspension and track tires, and of course they are driven really hard. I find the vast majority of people that drive stick shift just haven't a clue on how to do it properly, and it always ends up with premature clutch failure, mostly do to burning them by over-reving and slipping the clutch waaaaaay too long.
 
Flighty
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RE: Bad Products, Or Marketing Is Everything

Tue May 24, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
Most people who buy a BMW, M-B or other premium car will never be in a situation or have the ability to use thier full abililties of handling or performance just commuting to work or shopping.

As much as I hate to admit it, this is true. Nobody needs over 300hp in this country. Yet a Honda Accord has nearly that much power now. Why? What are people going to do? People buy way too much power in cars. Mine is a base model car and it already goes 145 mph or something. Yet of course there are optional engines. For what?!

Quoting Molykote (Reply 26):
I also have to vote for Apple. The products themselves are ok, but the value offered sucks (in my non-expert estimation).

Apple quality is very good (usually rated best in the industry is it not?), but it could be better.

I vote BOSE. And NIKE. And, unfortunately, SONY. Finally, TOYOTA. MERCEDES-BENZ is knocking on the door too. For many years M-B was not the finest car you could buy. I think the Audi A8 is still superior to a Benz, and has been for over 10 years.

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