futurepilot16
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Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:52 pm

Recently in the state of Florida, a legislation was passed requiring adults who apply for welfare to pass a drug test. However, the ACLU has filed a lawsuit claiming discrimination (which makes no damn sense).

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/...da.welfare.drug.testing/index.html

The ACLU claims that the legislation, is giving legitimacy to a stereotype that claims that most people on welfare are drug abusers (let me stop right there).

For the ACLU to claim that most welfare recipients are drugs users is just a stereotype is nonsense. You can ask most drug dealers when the biggest pay day is for them and each and every single one of them will answer the question with "the first and the fifteenth of each month" Ironically the same days that welfare checks arrive in the mail!

I WORK at a bank and I have to take random drug tests, submit urine samples and fingerprints as well as agree to a background check even before I started working. Why is it that people who receive FREE MONEY (Tax money) from our government should not be held to the same standard?    What pisses me off even more is that I just got my first paycheck and to see that %25 of that was lost to taxes just sickens me when I know at least some part of it could possibly be going to feed someone's drug problem!  

My question is, is it possible that the ACLU can win this lawsuit and and have the legislation overturned? I hope to god for the sake of our gov't saving some money that this law is adopted all around the country, sooner rather than later.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
zanl188
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
You can ask most drug dealers when the biggest pay day is for them and each and every single one of them will answer the question with "the first and the fifteenth of each month" Ironically the same days that welfare checks arrive in the mail!

A lot of working people get paid on the 1st & 15th as well...
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Mir
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:11 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
A lot of working people get paid on the 1st & 15th as well...

I know I do.

-Mir
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airtran737
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:19 pm

I fully agree with the legislation passed in Florida. If these people want to sit on their asses and do nothing then they should have to pass a drug test. I also believe that people should also be mandated to further their education while on welfare. There should be no free ride, and unfortunately these people think that the more kids they squeeze out then the more money that they should be entitled to. I have such a vicious hatred for the bottom feeding scum who try to make a living off of welfare. The whole program needs a complete overhaul, that or we start disposing of those who are a drain on society.
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AGM100
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:29 pm

The same ACLU logic of "discrimination" of law breaking is used in the illegal immigrant arguments. I would go further ... I would make it if a person was ever found guilty of a Felony you could not get entitlements .
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NIKV69
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Bravo to Florida. This isn't about sterotypes it's about making sure people asking for taxpayer assistance are not using drugs. The ACLU can go scratch.
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JRadier
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:38 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):

I know I do.

-Mir

Considering that, you must be a drug user David, no doubt about that    
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BMI727
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:45 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):

Recently in the state of Florida, a legislation was passed requiring adults who apply for welfare to pass a drug test.

Great law. They should have to pass one whenever they collect a check.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
The ACLU claims that the legislation, is giving legitimacy to a stereotype that claims that most people on welfare are drug abusers (let me stop right there).

Did it ever occur to anyone there that stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason?
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futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:46 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
A lot of working people get paid on the 1st & 15th as well...

Kudos to them...If they want to use their hard earned money to finance their drug problems, so be it. At least they WORK!

But when you're taking money out of taxpayer pockets to handout to drug addicts to finance their addiction which in turn funds illegal drug operations, the same illegal drug operations that we're currently spending 10's of billions of dollars each year to fight...it's kind of (pardon my french) retarded!
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Mir
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 6):
Considering that, you must be a drug user David, no doubt about that

Man, you have no idea how badly I need my daily fix....








....of Claritin.  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:51 pm

I agree with this new law. Why give taxpayer money to those who will use it to fund drug dealing?
 
windy95
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:03 pm

It is a great new law recently signed by Gov. Scott. It should be more than once though.
 
Mir
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:21 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 8):
But when you're taking money out of taxpayer pockets to handout to drug addicts

You're validating the ACLU's argument by equating being on welfare with being a drug addict. You're going to need some sort of probable cause for drug screenings to be legal, and simply rhetorical evidence that drug dealers make of a lot of sales when welfare checks come out (and the same day as a lot of people get their paychecks) isn't going to cut it (and have you actually talked to a drug dealer?).

So the question for you is: can you show a reliable connection (with evidence) between welfare recipients and drug use. If so, then the law has a good case. If not, it doesn't.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
zanl188
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 8):
Kudos to them...If they want to use their hard earned money to finance their drug problems, so be it. At least they WORK!
Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
You can ask most drug dealers when the biggest pay day is for them and each and every single one of them will answer the question with "the first and the fifteenth of each month" Ironically the same days that welfare checks arrive in the mail!

So are you saying that working people who get their checks on the 1st & 15th should be given a drug test? Sure sounds like it to me...... and precisely how many drug dealers have you asked? How many do you know? Maybe you should get a drug test! lol
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fr8mech
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:48 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
You're going to need some sort of probable cause for drug screenings to be legal,

I disagree. It can simply be stated that as a condition of receiving you must pass a drug screen. Simple. I have to pass random and directed drug screens to remain employed. And to head off the private corporation vs. government argument...these drug screens are mandated by the DOT.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
You can ask most drug dealers when the biggest pay day is for them and each and every single one of them will answer the question with "the first and the fifteenth of each month" Ironically the same days that welfare checks arrive in the mail!

That's a facetious argument. Many folks get paid on those days. From the comments made, I can only assume those are also the days that the government tit is whipped out.

I do have a small problem with the recipients being responsible for the cost of the test. Maybe, if a retest is required, the candidate should have to pay, but the initial cost should probably be borne by the State.
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dxing
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:45 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 12):
You're validating the ACLU's argument by equating being on welfare with being a drug addict. You're going to need some sort of probable cause for drug screenings to be legal,

Why? It is not mandatory that anyone accept a welfare check. I don't see a problem with it being conditional upon accepting the assistance.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:03 pm

I receive my paycheck from the government and am susceptible to drug screening (the difference is, I actually work). I had to take and pass a drug test before being accepted by the military, and they can call me for a random drug screening at any time. So why shouldn't some bum on welfare be susceptible to drug testing and have to pass at least one drug test to receive their (free) check from the government?
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ltbewr
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:09 pm

First of all, what drugs are the going to be looking for? Cocaine, heroin, opiates, meth or pot and alcohol? I would have no complaints as to testing for the highly addictive and most dangerous 'hard' drugs and meth, for certain classes of state/municipal job (which is probably already done) or for welfare benefits, but less so over pot or alcohol. I would suggest that the testing should be done only if a suspicion, perhaps after requiring a medical exam upon application for benefits or employment and if the exam suggests signs of drug use/alcohol abuse, which would mean less of an issue with the ACLU

I would be concerned that the state may extend the demands for drug testing to applying for unemployment benefits, attending a State College/University and so on.
 
dxing
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):
but less so over pot or alcohol

Depending on the State pot is illegal at any time. Alcohol is not, unless you're under 21.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):
I would be concerned that the state may extend the demands for drug testing to applying for unemployment benefits, attending a State College/University and so on.

Since unemployment benefits are paid up front by the employer, and only administered by the government I would have a problem with testing in that area.

As far as College/Universities go, they already prohibit you from smoking in many areas, so what's the difference?
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airplaneguy
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:04 pm

Cigarettes and alcohol are also drugs. Who's to say that welfare recipients don't go out and spend all their money on these items?
 
flymia
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:12 pm

Quoting airplaneguy (Reply 22):
Cigarettes and alcohol are also drugs. Who's to say that welfare recipients don't go out and spend all their money on these items?

Difference is when you buy those items you are paying taxes on them, and supporting a legal buisness and the economy. When you give a drug dealer money that is not taxed products, and not a legal buisness. BIG DIFFERENCE.

It is a great law! Proud to be living in a state that has finally stepped up and made this happen. I am sure many will follow as they should. And who knows maybe after a few years if the vast majority of people pass the drug test then they wont need to do them anymore. But just like most people whether they are an Airline Pilot, Police Officer, Doctor, Banker or someone who stocks shelves at Wal Mart they need to pass a drug test to get paid so why not them? It makes no sense to NOT have the drug test.
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Maverick623
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:01 am

This lawsuit will fail.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):

I WORK at a bank and I have to take random drug tests, submit urine samples and fingerprints as well as agree to a background check even before I started working. Why is it that people who receive FREE MONEY (Tax money) from our government should not be held to the same standard?

Because you work around a ton of cash that isn't, and never will (legally) be, yours. Welfare money is the property of the recipient, so there's no worries about "stealing" anything.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
What pisses me off even more is that I just got my first paycheck and to see that %25 of that was lost to taxes just sickens me when I know at least some part of it could possibly be going to feed someone's drug problem!

  

You know that food you buy from that supermarket? A tiny portion of that will eventually go to support somebody's drug habit. Guess you better start growing your own food now.

Protip: There's always multiple people in every industry who use their money to buy drugs. Don't you think for one second that some threat of a drug test will stop them.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):


My question is, is it possible that the ACLU can win this lawsuit and and have the legislation overturned?

Only if they can get the state to slip up as bad as you did.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 15):

Try and gain some intellectual ability before you respond to my posts.

Says the guy who claims that you can "ask any drug dealer", when you've never actually asked one yourself.
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DocLightning
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:11 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):

I agree with you. I think that the choice to live on public assistance (and mark my words, it is usually a choice should necessarily turn you into an adult "ward of the state" with very minute details of your public life governed by the state law. There should be every resource to help you off welfare, but if the taxpayers are paying your bills, then we should have the right to demand certain standards of behavior.

1) You will not conceive children while you are on welfare.
2) You will not use drugs or drink alcohol while on welfare. If you have a problem, you will be in treatment.
3) You will be subjected to random checks and audits to make sure that you are not defrauding welfare.
4) You will be in school or actively searching for employment while on welfare.
5) You will buy healthy, nutritious food on welfare money, not soda and chips.

In short, the same rules my parents had for me when I was on their dole.

This is one area where I strongly disagree with the ACLU. I don't think that welfare has anything to do with civil liberties. There is no Constitutional right to public assistance. They're barking up the wrong tree. Making the welfare system more abuse-proof is a good idea.

I'm against drug tests in general, but for people on welfare, the rest of us have a right to know that that's not why they are on welfare.
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Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:36 am

I support the ACLU in this case. I'm against drug test anyway. It's a violation of one's privacy and it's insulting to assume that someone who may need to go on public assistance may be prone to being a drug user.
I hope the ACLU wins this case and who ever proposed this legislation is a jack@ss.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I WORK at a bank and I have to take random drug tests, submit urine samples and fingerprints as well as agree to a background check even before I started working.

Sucks to work at your bank.
Not all banks require these sort of intrusive test.

Keep in mind, these are NOT "drug test". These are marijuana test.
Hard drugs do not stay in your system as long as marijuana.
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elmothehobo
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:50 am

So much for small government and personal liberty.

What next, asking students that receive federal or state aid to submit for drug tests? How about asking bankers from companies that got federal funds submitting for drug tests?

It sets a poor legal precedent, and it reeks of bigotry and economic prejudice.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:57 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
I support the ACLU in this case. I'm against drug test anyway. It's a violation of one's privacy and it's insulting to assume that someone who may need to go on public assistance may be prone to being a drug user.
I hope the ACLU wins this case and who ever proposed this legislation is a jack@ss.

Even if they're receiving handouts from the government?

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 29):
What next, asking students that receive federal or state aid to submit for drug tests

At least we know where that money goes to. I get financial aid at my University more specifically government grants that I don't have to pay back. Every red cent that comes from the government goes straight into education and I don't even get a penny of it in my hand, we know where that money goes.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:02 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 29):
It sets a poor legal precedent, and it reeks of bigotry and economic prejudice.

  
Exactly!
Also, these "drug test" would not have traced cocaine - the drug that fmr. addicts such as George W. Bush used.
It would target free-thinkers, artist, musicians and other people that tend to just be mellow.
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BMI727
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:02 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 29):
It sets a poor legal precedent, and it reeks of bigotry and economic prejudice.

Welfare is economic prejudice. You don't see middle class people getting it.

And the precedent it would set is an excellent one. Namely, that welfare is not free money. There are strings attached. You live on the government's money, you play by the government's rules.


Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 29):
So much for small government and personal liberty.

This legislation in no way restricts personal liberty. If you want to do drugs, go do drugs. You just can't collect welfare at the same time. If you would rather do drugs than collect government money, you perfectly free to do so.

Just like if you want to be drunk, you can be drunk. But you can't drive at the same time. Hell, if this motivates junkies to get off their ass to get a job so they can get their fix, that's a win in my book.

[Edited 2011-06-05 19:07:41]
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aa61hvy
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:10 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Keep in mind, these are NOT "drug test". These are marijuana test.
Hard drugs do not stay in your system as long as marijuana.

My sister used to work for a company in the HR department. She would tell me something like every week they would have some applicant test positive for cocaine. I believe cocaine is in your system 2 days. So you'd be surprised.

It's not just drug screening but idiot screening too.
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elmothehobo
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
Welfare is economic prejudice. You don't see middle class people getting it.

What middle class?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
And the precedent it would set is an excellent one. Namely, that welfare is not free money. There are strings attached. You live on the government's money, you play by the government's rules.

It is a huge invasion of personal privacy, and sets a precedent that a state government can, as a precondition to getting funds from the government, require disclosure of drug use. You could require a drug test for disbursal of student aid, business loans, heck, even your state tax return.

Besides, this does nothing to stop welfare recipients who abuse alcohol, which is far more expensive to society, not to mention abused far more that any other drug.

It's always funny to see so-called libertarians who defend this type of government encroachment on personal lives.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
At least we know where that money goes to. I get financial aid at my University more specifically government grants that I don't have to pay back. Every red cent that comes from the government goes straight into education and I don't even get a penny of it in my hand, we know where that money goes.

Not in all cases. The Army paid for my school, I also took out federal loans. I pocketed everything beyond the cost of attendance, and because I have a full time job I pay for housing and board out of my own pocket. I could have spent that money on booze or hookers, there is absolutely no accountability for that money once financial aid returns it to the student. None whatsoever.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
Even if they're receiving handouts from the government?

I'd imagine that the vast majority of welfare recipients aren't proud of it. People love to point to videos of Shanaynay or Billy Bob talking about all the government cheese they are getting and how much more money they get for having more kids, but you will find that when it comes down to it, there is an underclass in this country that is either consistently unemployed or under employed by no fault of their own - largely due to this country's broader economic policies. Few people are proud of their status on welfare, and the few that do flaunt their welfare, like Ol' Dirty Bastard picking up his welfare check in a limousine, are not representative of welfare recipients as a whole, rather a representation of barbarian morons taking advantage of the system.

The fact that someone smokes an occasional joint shouldn't affect anyone's eligibility to welfare anymore than parking tickets would.
 
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cpd
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:26 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 23):
Difference is when you buy those items you are paying taxes on them, and supporting a legal buisness and the economy. When you give a drug dealer money that is not taxed products, and not a legal buisness. BIG DIFFERENCE.

But, at the same time, some control should be exercised on how that welfare money is spent, so it is spent appropriately, and not all on alcohol - "an intervention" if you will.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
I support the ACLU in this case. I'm against drug test anyway. It's a violation of one's privacy and it's insulting to assume that someone who may need to go on public assistance may be prone to being a drug user.
I hope the ACLU wins this case and who ever proposed this legislation is a jack@ss.

I can be forced to take them as well, so why shouldn't others be also forced to. It's annoying, but that's how life is these days. i don't do drugs, nor do I smoke (never have done either). If I'm supposed to endure this kind of thing, then why not apply it to everyone across the board?

It might change public opinion of the issue.
 
BMI727
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
It is a huge invasion of personal privacy, and sets a precedent that a state government can,

It is an invasion of privacy. But, if you want to live on the government's dime, that is what you have to do. We even have a term for it already: implied consent.

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
as a precondition to getting funds from the government

If, say, Northrop Grumman were hiring unproductive stoners and not getting their work done to the standards set out by the government, how many more contracts do you think they would get?

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
It's always funny to see so-called libertarians who defend this type of government encroachment on personal lives.

It's completely optional. Don't collect welfare you can smoke, shoot, snort, swallow or sniff whatever you like.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:33 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
Welfare is economic prejudice. You don't see middle class people getting it.

What middle class?

Oh spare me - that tired "there is no middle class" argument is bullshit and you know it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:38 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
Not in all cases. The Army paid for my school, I also took out federal loans. I pocketed everything beyond the cost of attendance, and because I have a full time job I pay for housing and board out of my own pocket. I could have spent that money on booze or hookers, there is absolutely no accountability for that money once financial aid returns it to the student. None whatsoever.

Sorry, not in my case, I wish I could get some of that money, but everything goes into tuition

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):
The fact that someone smokes an occasional joint shouldn't affect anyone's eligibility to welfare anymore than parking tickets would.

They don't have to be affected, it's barely even an inconvenience to them. They pay the fee to get tested, if they pass the test, they get reimbursed. Even if they only smoke weed, learn to do without until you get yourself back on your feet, have a job, then you can buy allllllll the weed you want.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:42 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
If, say, Northrop Grumman were hiring unproductive stoners and not getting their work done to the standards set out by the government, how many more contracts do you think they would get?

Take the 'stoners' out of that statement then answer it. The adjective has no relevance there.

What if they were highly motivated occasional marijuana users? I know that in fairy tale land there is no such thing as an occasional drug user - and that all users are addicts, but in the real world, there are people, who use some drugs recreationally - like smoking that joint to celebrate the end of a long week.

This country is full of puritans when it comes to 'mild' drugs.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
It is an invasion of privacy. But, if you want to live on the government's dime, that is what you have to do. We even have a term for it already: implied consent.

Implied consent doesn't stand in a court of law in this case.
 
Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:47 am

Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 33):
It's not just drug screening but idiot screening too.

So how do you screen the idiots that do not use drugs?

Quoting cpd (Reply 35):
I can be forced to take them as well, so why shouldn't others be also forced to. It's annoying, but that's how life is these days.

Life does not have to be this way. It's bonehead legislation and I feel that employers shouldn't pry in to people personal lives.

Quoting cpd (Reply 35):
. i don't do drugs, nor do I smoke (never have done either). If I'm supposed to endure this kind of thing, then why not apply it to everyone across the board?

You shouldn't have to endure this.
I'm not a drug user either but if one of my co-workers is one, it's none of my business, nor the employer.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 30):
Even if they're receiving handouts from the government?

Yep.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:49 am

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 39):
What if they were highly motivated occasional marijuana users? I know that in fairy tale land there is no such thing as an occasional drug user - and that all users are addicts, but in the real world, there are people, who use some drugs recreationally - like smoking that joint to celebrate the end of a long week.

Spare me this recreational use bullcrap. I smoke recreationally, i'm in a fraternity where smoking is the norm, at least once a week. I was annoyed when I found out I couldn't smoke weed because of my job, but I sacrificed and haven't a joint in about a month. These people are getting......wait.....for....it.....FREE MONEY, and you're telling me that they can't sacrifice some? I have to work to get paid and i'm more than willing to sacrifice. if weed or cocaine is more important to them than having a life, then so be it, they can continue to be the scum of society, I could care less, as long as they don't benefit from taxpayer dollars.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 41):
Spare me this recreational use bullcrap.
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 41):
These people are getting......wait.....for....it.....FREE MONEY

How about spare us the "free money" crap?
It's insulting to assume that someone on welfare might be a drug user. It's insulting that your job requires a pot test.
Just because your company has a stupid policy doesn't mean that other companies and the government should adopt the same policy.
The ACLU is spot on with this case.
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cpd
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 40):
Life does not have to be this way. It's bonehead legislation and I feel that employers shouldn't pry in to people personal lives.

Unfortunately, it's a bit of a different thing when the employer is being pushed by the media and the general public to take action. You've got no choice.
 
seb146
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:04 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
I fully agree with the legislation passed in Florida. If these people want to sit on their asses and do nothing then they should have to pass a drug test. I also believe that people should also be mandated to further their education while on welfare.

So, bigger government and more government intervintion into people's personal lives? I thought the right wanted to move this country away from that.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
There should be no free ride, and unfortunately these people think that the more kids they squeeze out then the more money that they should be entitled to.

I agree people should further their education. I have no problem with that at all. However, if someone is on welfare, that means they have no money to even start their education. Nor do they probably have the credit to get a loan to go to school. And, if funding is cut off because people keep popping out babies, how will the babies be fed? Especially when there are no jobs.

That brings up another point: Where are the jobs? Didn't the right tell us they were big on job creation if elected? They were elected so where are the jobs so these welfare recipiants can stop suckling the teet of government?
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WestJetForLife
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:04 am

I'm fifty-fifty on this one.

The ACLU has a valid point about stereotyping drug users as welfare recipients, but at the same time, if I had X% of my income taxed to provide this sort of financial assistance for welfare recipients, then I'd like to think my tax dollars are going towards those who need it, instead of those who abuse the system and buy drugs, junk food and unnecessary items on the Provincial/State/Federal Government's dime.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
1) You will not conceive children while you are on welfare.
2) You will not use drugs or drink alcohol while on welfare. If you have a problem, you will be in treatment.
3) You will be subjected to random checks and audits to make sure that you are not defrauding welfare.
4) You will be in school or actively searching for employment while on welfare.
5) You will buy healthy, nutritious food on welfare money, not soda and chips.

I agree. Set limits as to what you are allowed to use your welfare (or Income Support, as we call it in Alberta) money, and make sure people follow through with them. If they don't, then they're cut off.

Nik
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Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:10 am

Didn't Adolf Hitler require government sponsored drug test?

Quoting cpd (Reply 43):
Unfortunately, it's a bit of a different thing when the employer is being pushed by the media and the general public to take action.

No they're not.


Welfare has a build in limit of 5 years. That was part of President Clinton's welfare reform.
It would be stupid for anyone to waste 5 years on drugs without a plan to be off in 5 years.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:14 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
How about spare us the "free money" crap?

Dude what do you want me to call it? It's a handout. When the government had their bailout money it was the same thing, a handout, my federal financial aid is a handout...only difference is i'm not a crackhead and might actually serve some purpose in this society.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
It's insulting to assume that someone on welfare might be a drug user. It's insulting that your job requires a pot test.
Just because your company has a stupid policy doesn't mean that other companies and the government should adopt the same policy.

What's really insulting is the fact that the government is giving out billions of dollars in welfare checks each year, and spending billions of dollars on the war on drugs when one is potentially fueling the other. it's sort of counterproductive from my standpoint.
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cpd
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:14 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 46):
No they're not.

Mine was - the media and the general public pushed the issue and made it a big thing, so the employer had to take action. The opposition political party (who were right wing conservative) demanded the tests happen too.

I don't know how many people actually were made to take them, I haven't - yet - but I know it was part of the conditions when I signed up.

[Edited 2011-06-05 20:23:10]
 
Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:37 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 47):
Dude what do you want me to call it?

It's called Aid To Families with Dependent Children.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 47):
What's really insulting is the fact that the government is giving out billions of dollars in welfare checks each year, and spending billions of dollars on the war on drugs when one is potentially fueling the other. it's sort of counterproductive from my standpoint.

No argument there. I oppose the 'war on drugs too'.
Sure there might be some welfare recipients that might be drug users but most are not. Going on welfare is already a humiliating experience for many and then to subject them to a drug test adds insult to injury.

Quoting cpd (Reply 48):
Mine was - the media and the general public pushed the issue and made it a big thing, so the employer had to take action. The opposition political party (who were right wing conservative) demanded the tests happen too.

Not the case in the United States.
There are lot of drug companies that aggressively sale their services to some companies. I remember on several occasions where these drug testing companies would call and solicit their service. I just hung up on them or told them we were not interested in their services.
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flymia
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:44 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 35):
But, at the same time, some control should be exercised on how that welfare money is spent, so it is spent appropriately, and not all on alcohol - "an intervention" if you will.

Agree you 100%! But this is a good start.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49):
It's called Aid To Families with Dependent Children.

Wouldn't you sleep better at night knowing that the aid is actually helping the needy children?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 49):
No argument there. I oppose the 'war on drugs too'.
Sure there might be some welfare recipients that might be drug users but most are not. Going on welfare is already a humiliating experience for many and then to subject them to a drug test adds insult to injury.

I agree that it's insulting, but for someone who needs money for their family, they have to swallow their pride and do what they need to do. Being insulted isn't the most important thing, feeding your family is much more important.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:11 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 51):
Wouldn't you sleep better at night knowing that the aid is actually helping the needy children?

Well of course. This proposed marijuana test wouldn't change a thing in regards to feeding the children.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 51):
I agree that it's insulting, but for someone who needs money for their family, they have to swallow their pride and do what they need to do.

...and that 's what AFDC is for.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 51):
Being insulted isn't the most important thing, feeding your family is much more important.

..nor is investigating and carrying out drug test.

Quoting cpd (Reply 35):
But, at the same time, some control should be exercised on how that welfare money is spent, so it is spent appropriately, and not all on alcohol - "an intervention" if you will.

Alcohol can NOT be purchased with food stamps. That rule is already in place.
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Maverick623
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:19 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):

Dude i grew up watching drug deals in Brooklyn...the powers of observation my friend.

Cool. So you saw a few drug deals (who hasn't?).

Still doesn't explain why you tell people to "ask a drug dealer" when you won't yourself.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):

No welfare money is OUR money.

You keep thinking that.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):
They should go get a friggin job if they're capable!

Have you seen the job market lately? (Hint: there is none).

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 34):

It's always funny to see so-called libertarians who defend this type of government encroachment on personal lives.

If you knew anything about libertarians, you'd know that they oppose welfare to begin with. Nice try, though.
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Superfly
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RE: Aclu Fighting FL. Welfare Drug Tests!

Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:32 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53):
Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 27):

No welfare money is OUR money.

You keep thinking that.

Glad you caught that one Maverick623.
What futurepilot16 needs to realize is that welfare money is also the recipients money. They were once taxpayers when they were working. Therefore as a taxpayer that unfortunately hit hard times, is entitled to it and there is a 5 year cap on it.
No long term drug addictions will develop.
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