Maverick623
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Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:11 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/11/inj...erback.turtle/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Quote:
so one wants to make sure in general that as many eggs hatch as possible and then let nature take over."

For the record, I don't mind one bit that they're helping a turtle out; everyone needs a hobby.

What bugs the hell out of me is in the same sentence, they claim that nature should take it's course uninterrupted, but only after they're done playing God. It's arrogant to the extreme, and it's quite obvious the article is an editorial/emotional piece to make people feel bad for not feeling bad.

And then, they go on to say (again in one sentence) that the turtle doesn't really know what's going on, but that they think it does because it.... thanks them? Gives them a high five? No.... it lays it's eggs like it normally would.

And the best part of all: most eggs won't hatch because other animals will eat them.

The epitome of ecological arrogance.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Springbok747
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:38 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
but only after they're done playing God.

Digging a hole to help the turtle lay its eggs is "playing God"? I don't understand...   

Its clear that this particular turtle is good at surviving, I mean..she has survived since 2007 with just 2 flippers..nothing wrong with 'assisting' her a bit with respect to laying her eggs. Its no where near playing God..geez..
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:53 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
The epitome of ecological arrogance.

Agreed. Everybody wants to be recognized as a hero nowadays for "saving" some random animal hardly in distress.

I say let Darwin do his thing and be done with it.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
Its no where near playing God..geez..

You missed his point by a million miles, geez  
 
Maverick623
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):

Digging a hole to help the turtle lay its eggs is "playing God"?

No. Claiming you'll let nature take it's course only when you want it to is. What makes it worse is that these people supposedly have "respect" for nature.

We are not gods, nor are we saviors of the planet and all the lesser species.

Had this turtle not been endangered, this would have been a story a 5 year old on summer vacation told his/her classmates in the fall, not a front page article on CNN.com

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
I say let Darwin do his thing and be done with it.

Survival of the fittest + keeping a natural balance.... not an artificial one. They don't ever stop to think that by helping this one turtle, they're screwing the entries species even more by hatching eggs with genes that code for a 60-70% failure rate in reproduction... and arguably being a slow swimmer.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
mt99
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:49 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 3):
Survival of the fittest + keeping a natural balance.... not an artificial one. They don't ever stop to think that by helping this one turtle, they're screwing the entries species even more by hatching eggs with genes that code for a 60-70% failure rate in reproduction... and arguably being a slow swimmer.

So, should we kill all Pandas? They are kinda useless you know..
Step into my office, baby
 
Maverick623
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
So, should we kill all Pandas? They are kinda useless you know..

Just what part of:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 3):
We are not gods

Do you not understand?? We shouldn't do anything other than what we want. If we can't hack it after screwing around on a global scale, that's us not being fit enough to survive.

But we're getting off my point: It's peeves me to see people think they can overrule nature when it suits their emotions, and then back away and claim that nature can "take over".

If they truly wanted the eggs to hatch, they would incubate them all in a safe place. And if they truly wanted nature to take it's course, they would either leave them completely alone to die, or dig a hole out of personal curiosity, not claim to be working for a "greater good".
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
mt99
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 5):
We shouldn't do anything other than what we want.

Maybe i'm missing something,, how those that relate to "we are not gods"?
Step into my office, baby
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:03 am

The turtle in question is a Leatherback turtle, a endangered spieces and this turtle in the story is missing her rear flippers. Without the flippers she may not be able to dig a proper hole for the eggs. Without a good hole none of the eggs would survive. So if we can help out this endangered spieces what is wrong with that??
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
racko
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:45 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 7):
So if we can help out this endangered spieces what is wrong with that??

Humans are only supposed to kill animals as a hobby, not help them.
 
Klaus
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:31 pm

Humanity has forcibly dunked many species below their survivability threshold. In some cases it is possible to compensate for some of that negative offset with a positive one so the species may be able to hold out until we've repaired the worst damage to its ecosystem and it can again survive on its own.

This is simply constructive mitigation of damage we've done collectively, so I see no fault in that.

I have little sympathy for the attitude of just shrugging off the progressive impoverishment of the world around us, letting it slide towards a toxic and barren wasteland where rats and cockroaches may ultimately remain the dominant surviving species beside us. That's just not my kind of world worth looking forward to.
 
Maverick623
Topic Author
Posts: 4632
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:31 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 8):

Humans are only supposed to kill animals as a hobby, not help them.

I see reading comprehension is lacking once again:

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
I don't mind one bit that they're helping a turtle out; everyone needs a hobby.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
In some cases it is possible to compensate for some of that negative offset with a positive one so the species may be able to hold out until we've repaired the worst damage to its ecosystem and it can again survive on its own.

I'm not sure how helping one turtle out of hundreds in Florida helps repopulate the decimated Asian Pacific coast.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Klaus
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:17 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 10):
I'm not sure how helping one turtle out of hundreds in Florida helps repopulate the decimated Asian Pacific coast.

It's still boosting the numbers, which can in fact make or break a species which is relatively close to the brink. When it's reported, it also raises awareness which can multiply the impact.

In some cases when Species are geared for a high number of offspring to compensate for high losses, mitigating these high losses can boost the numbers relatively quickly.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Let Nature Take Over, Only After Messing With It

Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:25 am

This is funny. It's ok to screw around with the planet all we like, impact on other species in massively negative ways, but not ok to occasionally take steps in the other direction?? I get the point about the whole 'let nature take its course' claim but otherwise, what the hell is the problem?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 5):
If we can't hack it after screwing around on a global scale, that's us not being fit enough to survive.

Surely 'hacking it' can also include trying to keep animals around because a) we can, and b) a lot of people think they're a good thing?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 3):
Survival of the fittest + keeping a natural balance.... not an artificial one.

If us building all over the place and impacting on animals is a 'natural balance' then how on earth is digging a hole for a turtle any different? Grandiose claims from attention-seeking people can be annoying, and yeah - these guys haven't really done all that much in the grand scheme of things, but seriously - why are we in such a lather about this??
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