NIKV69
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Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:30 am

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cali...republicans-basically-moronic.html

It's funny to hear Dems call someone a moron but things in CA are going south. It's not a surprise Brown would't be brave enough as Cuomo or Christie but this has all the markings of a huge problem soon. The Dems in CA want nothing cut and just want to tack on fees to car registrations, raise sales taxes and dream up new taxes on things like soda. At the same time losing population and losing the people that hire. Also let us not forget the open border sanctuary policies that further bankrupt the state.

So on it's current course when does Brown or whomever is in office realize it's time to go to D.C. with hand out and hat in hand?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:53 am

California needs a Constitutional Convention. This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.
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LAXintl
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:57 am

No bail out needed.

Because one-way or the other we will have a fiscally responsible balanced budget.

Just not enough blood letting cuts have been agreed to by the Dem yet. Once they chop enough we'll be OK.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Newark727
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:57 am

The real problem here is the initiative process. I'm sure both sides are trying their hardest to ruin the state in their own special ways but as long as you can amend the constitution with a few petition signatures things will keep going south.
 
mham001
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:14 am

Oh but I thought marijuana was going to solve all our problems?

Everybody just needs to get stoned, it's all good.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:32 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

I agree, Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
Oh but I thought marijuana was going to solve all our problems?

Everybody just needs to get stoned, it's all good.

I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is. My grandmother cited opposition to Prop 13 in '78 as the reason for not voting for Brown this time around!
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Dreadnought
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:54 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is

And I don't get why you think people should pay tax on property they own, over and over again. 1%, OK. Maybe 1.5 or 2% may be tolerable. But to eliminate the restriction at a time when the governments are screaming for cash, you'll see proposed rates of 5-10% before long.

Imagine owning a modest $200,000 house (that's very modest in California) and having to shell out an additional $10-$20K per year. All that has a Present Value, and would have to be factored into the selling price of the house. In other words, if you think the current situation with housing prices is bad, just wait until you add additional taxes to home ownership. Nobody would want to own.
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NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
And I don't get why you think people should pay tax on property they own, over and over again.

They don't but in abscence of no tolls where is the money going to come from? You don't have to have insane high property taxes but this is way too low. With no tolls there is a huge short fall in revenue. With education and pensions totally gone where is this money going to come from?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:59 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Imagine owning a modest $200,000 house (that's very modest in California) and having to shell out an additional $10-$20K per year. All that has a Present Value, and would have to be factored into the selling price of the house. In other words, if you think the current situation with housing prices is bad, just wait until you add additional taxes to home ownership. Nobody would want to own.

According to the scheme set by Prop 13, my grandparents pay about $3K a year (with the requisite inflation adjustments) for a house they paid $17K for in 1958. Someone down the street who bought at $800K in 2005 has to pay $8K a year even though their house is down to $550K in market value now. How does that help the state?
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LAXintl
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:36 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.

I guess you are willing to ignore all the ills and the cost to society the wild west would bring if all drugs were legal.

No thanks.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is.

Suggest you look East and see what the lack of taxation controls has done.

Its one thing if you live in a stable market where property values don't appreciate much, however California a state which overall has had a booming property market would see tons of people hurt without some form of control.

In places like NY people are loosing their homes, especially ones they have lived in a long time ago as they cannot afford the rising taxation due to constant value reassessment. A home that a couple might have paid $100,000 a few decades ago, now gets assessed at a tax rate for a $1,000,000 property. No thanks.


Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation. We bring in tons of revenue, we just don't spend it wisely.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/s...dens_byyear_1977-2009-20110223.pdf

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
They don't but in abscence of no tolls where is the money going to come from? You don't have to have insane high property taxes but this is way too low. With no tolls there is a huge short fall in revenue.

According to your logic a state with tolls and rising property taxes should be doing fine -- so what is wrong with New Jersey then??

As I mentioned above, CA does not have a revenue problem. It collects the one of highest per-capita revenue in the US.
It just does not know how to spend it frugally enough.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I guess you are willing to ignore all the ills and the cost to society the wild west would bring if all drugs were legal.

No thanks

Which would be the same as they are now. So?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
According to your logic a state with tolls and rising property taxes should be doing fine -- so what is wrong with New Jersey then??

It's called very low gas taxes. thug unions who wanted everything and Corzine.Thanks to Cuomo and Christie give them 5 years and NJ and NY will be well on the road to prosperity while CA will be sinking like the titanic.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
CA does not have a revenue problem. It collects the one of highest per-capita revenue in the US.
It just does not know how to spend it frugally enough.

Like I said earlier a weak Jerry Brown, out of control education costs and sanctuary cities. CA had the chance to rescue themselves but chose to be the nanny state. It's a shame that such a beautiful state is in this shape with no hope.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
slider
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:13 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
California needs a Constitutional Convention. This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

That's a contributory reason, certainly.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation.

BINGO.

CA is screwed sideways because of a host of reasons, not the least of which is, and how do I put this politely....it's the most jacked-up leftist radical enviro-wackjob over-regulated place in the country.

And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial.

There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
it's the most jacked-up leftist radical enviro-wackjob over-regulated place in the country.

Absolutely and the dotcom jobs are not cutting it. CA needs manufacturing and everything else.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial

Can I get an Amen! Spot on.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.

Oh of course they can. Cuomo would have taken care of that state in two terms. Denial is only part of it. The state is full of people that don't want to fix it. They want to just keep putting their hand out. Keep voting for Boxer and people like Brown. You reap what you sew.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
windy95
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:29 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Keep voting for Boxer and people like Brown. You reap what you sew.

I was happy Brown won. When the ship sinks I did not want a Republican at the wheel. Moonbeam Brown is a fitting captain of the goodship lollipop..Maybe some of those Hollywood leftist can bail the state out..
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:20 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
And no one wants to address the pension relief issue.

My grandmother is a lifelong Republican and former 27-year administrative employee of the Santa Clara County school district. She refuses any notion of pension givebacks, insisting "that's what we worked for and people don't know how difficult the schools are." She insists cuts should come from "overpaid" cops, firefighters, and wasteful liberal programs in the universities. While the latter is agreeable, we didn't get far in that conversation. I suspect her attitude is not different from other pensioners.
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cws818
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:07 am

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
California suffers from denial.

Indeed, but Californians will deal with that. Texans need not apply.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 15):
I was happy Brown won. When the ship sinks I did not want a Republican at the wheel.

It is neither your ship, nor your wheel. It is not as though there aren't enough problems in Florida deserving of your partisan, polemical input.
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DocLightning
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):

I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.

That's been done already. $100 infraction.

The thing is that the state could make a LOT MORE by legalizing and taxing it.

Cannabis is THE SINGLE BIGGEST CASH CROP IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, more than soy, more than corn, more than tobacco.

And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00

Now that's just stupid.
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Superfly
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:01 am

California and many other states screwed themselves with 3-strikes laws and too many laws that lock people up in jail.
Release all the non-violent drug offenders, dead-beat dads and other people that didn't cause any harm to anyone but broke a law.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
That's been done already. $100 infraction.


That may be the case in a few counties but I doubt someone caught with marijuana in Modoc country would be slapped with a $100 infraction. They're gonna get hauled off to jail.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
and taxing it.


NO NEW TAXES!
How can you tax marijuana if it's grown in your own backyard? Your friend’s backyard?
That would require a government bureaucracy to come in with all of its regulations. Those people will need to get paid as well.
Legalize it and be done with it!

[Edited 2011-06-27 22:14:27]
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mham001
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:24 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
I agree, Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

Prop 13 is a canard thrown out there every time poor spending habits come around. The average house is sold every 5 years. At that time the value is reassessed and the state gets its money. The effects of Prop 13 overcome 5 years after it passed - in the residential market. There is a case to be made in the commercial market however when a corporation can hold a property infinitely. Disneyland for example.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):

And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial.

To be fair, thse are federal responsibilities for which they will not reimburse the state. California ooes not have the authority to deport illegal criminals. I'm not going to mention the insanity of extending state resident university fees to illegals though.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00

Now that's just stupid

You don't know what you're talking about. Medical marijuana, one of the greatest scams ever contrived by potheads is taxed.
 
dxing
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:35 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00



But that does not mean the city or State does not see revenue from busting illegal drug sales. Most States have forfeiture laws, which is why the local D.A.R.E officer is always driving the high end sports car. Plus that money usually goes straight into the police budget, or to the schools, and is not meddled with by the city council or State legislature.
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NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
That's been done already. $100 infraction

Still have to waste officers time and resources to write the ticket. They are better served chasing real criminals.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
more than tobacco

Hmmm that would be something.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Tugger
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation. We bring in tons of revenue, we just don't spend it wisely.

  

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):
Thanks to Cuomo and Christie give them 5 years and NJ and NY will be well on the road to prosperity while CA will be sinking like the titanic.

California will be just fine and your vitriol is unneeded. California will right itself, and it could well exceed New York and New Jersey simply becasue it is a very desirable physical location to live. Will it do it quickly and without pain, I doubt it. Remember, Reagan was a Californian, we aren't just a one note song.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.

  

Quoting cws818 (Reply 17):
Quoting slider (Reply 13):
California suffers from denial.

Indeed, but Californians will deal with that. Texans need not apply.

   And not just to knock one state, no one else need apply either. We will fix our problems and will do just fine, in fact we will be great. I mean look at how bad the situation is right now and yet the state is still an economic powerhouse.

We HAVE to fix the deficit spending (and California is NOT the only state with this problem) and I hope improve the climate for business. Once we control the spending at least we will do very well.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
NO NEW TAXES!
How can you tax marijuana if it's grown in your own backyard? Your friend's backyard?
That would require a government bureaucracy to come in with all of its regulations. Those people will need to get paid as well.
Legalize it and be done with it!

Legalize it yes, but that will and should bring the same taxes that any other product sold incurs, and perhaps taxes similar to tobacco products. What is grown in your or your friends backyard is not an issue if it is not sold.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):
Prop 13 is a canard thrown out there every time poor spending habits come around. The average house is sold every 5 years. At that time the value is reassessed and the state gets its money. The effects of Prop 13 overcome 5 years after it passed - in the residential market. There is a case to be made in the commercial market however when a corporation can hold a property infinitely. Disneyland for example.

I agree with your comment. Prop 13 overall is fine but the problem is people are afraid (for good reason) to tweak it (for commercial properties as you note) where it needs to be changed.
The only thing I question is your number of "sold every 5 years", that was probably over the past ten years when many were flipping and riding their home value up and then trading up for a new house. I would be curious to know the years your number covers and what the number would be if you excluded "the stupid years".

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):
You don't know what you're talking about. Medical marijuana, one of the greatest scams ever contrived by potheads is taxed.

"Medical marijuana" was just a necessary first step to allow some in society wrap their heads around the idea that perhaps marijuana is not all evil and bad. Scam? Not if you consider that the real goal is to legalize it. Now if people actually think it is JUST medicine, then yeah that would be a scam. I think people just needed an excuse to get the ball rolling.

Tugg
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NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
California will right itself, and it could well exceed New York and New Jersey simply becasue it is a very desirable physical location to live. Will it do it quickly and without pain, I doubt it. Remember, Reagan was a Californian, we aren't just a one note song.

How? Brown has shown he is not going to the tough things needed. Businesses are leaving, more illegals are being given sanctuary to the cost of the already broke taxpayers and the leaderships idea is to just jack up taxes to try to make up the revenue. It's a very old song and has very little chance for success. California needs some new leadership. Fast.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
Businesses are leaving, more illegals are being given sanctuary to the cost of the already broke taxpayers and the leaderships idea is to just jack up taxes to try to make up the revenue.

In the budget Brown has just hashed out with the State Assembly, they are letting the tax increases expire. CA GOP is claiming victory even though they weren't even at the table. Not only that, but Brown has kept his promise to slay redevelopment agencies. That is a huge step I never would have expected the liberals to allow to go through. There are over 200 such entities in the state and to just throw all their money in the state coffers is unprecedented. Expect legal challenges. Many CA libs are flaming pissed by the new Brown budget.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...ection/detail?entry_id=91913&tsp=1

[Edited 2011-06-28 16:09:34]
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DocLightning
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:37 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):

That may be the case in a few counties but I doubt someone caught with marijuana in Modoc country would be slapped with a $100 infraction. They're gonna get hauled off to jail.

No, that's actually state law. The Governator signed it a few months back. He said that the state's budget was being swamped by all the prosecutorial (and defense) costs in bringing these criminal cases to court and that it made much more sense to just make it a $100 infraction. An infraction is not a crime and so no prosecution nor defense is required.

Quoting dxing (Reply 21):

But that does not mean the city or State does not see revenue from busting illegal drug sales

Not nearly as much as they would were it legal.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):

You don't know what you're talking about. Medical marijuana, one of the greatest scams ever contrived by potheads is taxed.

Yes and no. Medical marijuana dispensary pay taxes. However, there are no sales taxes of which I'm aware. Why? Because it's a *koff* prescription *gag* medic... *chokes*.

I know, stupid, right?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
NO NEW TAXES!
How can you tax marijuana if it's grown in your own backyard? Your friend’s backyard?
That would require a government bureaucracy to come in with all of its regulations. Those people will need to get paid as well.
Legalize it and be done with it!

Have you ever seen what's involved in growing decent herb? First of all, it needs partial-to-full sun, depending on ambient temperature. It needs certain humidity conditions and it also needs a good blend of fertilizers, not to mention protection from any male pollen that will make it fruit too soon before it's made its load of resin.

Growing your own is a pain and if you can run down to the corner store and buy it, few people will bother.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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san747
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:44 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
California needs a Constitutional Convention. This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

  

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):

I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.

We agree on something!  
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

I guess you are willing to ignore all the ills and the cost to society the wild west would bring if all drugs were legal.

Because if drugs were legal, we'd all start doing them.

Quoting cws818 (Reply 17):

It is neither your ship, nor your wheel. It is not as though there aren't enough problems in Florida deserving of your partisan, polemical input.

Understatement. I have a friend in MIA that bitches to ME that CA has too many illegal immigrants and screwed itself when the housing bubble burst. I asked him if he had been living under a rock for the last 20 years.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
California and many other states screwed themselves with 3-strikes laws and too many laws that lock people up in jail.
Release all the non-violent drug offenders, dead-beat dads and other people that didn't cause any harm to anyone but broke a law.

We agree about something too!  
Quoting slider (Reply 13):
how do I put this politely....it's the most jacked-up leftist radical enviro-wackjob over-regulated place in the country.

You clearly have never been to CA. Outside SFO and LAX, CA has probably the most politically and religiously conservative population outside of the deep South, particularly in Southern CA.

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
I mean look at how bad the situation is right now and yet the state is still an economic powerhouse.

Very good point.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:30 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
In the budget Brown has just hashed out with the State Assembly, they are letting the tax increases expire. CA GOP is claiming victory even though they weren't even at the table. Not only that, but Brown has kept his promise to slay redevelopment agencies. That is a huge step I never would have expected the liberals to allow to go through. There are over 200 such entities in the state and to just throw all their money in the state coffers is unprecedented. Expect legal challenges. Many CA libs are flaming pissed by the new Brown budget.

It's so funny that there are people that seriously think you can just tax your way out of debt and that no cuts should be made. It's the reason CA is in the state it's in. Keep letting illegals in, keep passing stricting laws and taxes on business and just keep charging the taxpayer. Keep electing Boxer and people like Harris. Well be careful what you wish for.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Superfly
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:59 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
No, that's actually state law. The Governator signed it a few months back. He said that the state's budget was being swamped by all the prosecutorial (and defense) costs in bringing these criminal cases to court and that it made much more sense to just make it a $100 infraction. An infraction is not a crime and so no prosecution nor defense is required.

Does this retroactivley reduce the penalties for those in prison on a marijuna conviction? How about a 2-strikes criminal and had a 3rd. strike levied against him by an over-zealous procecutor and is serving time because of the marijuna part of his conviction?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Have you ever seen what's involved in growing decent herb?

Oh I of course have never seen anything like that in my life time.  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
First of all, it needs partial-to-full sun, depending on ambient temperature. It needs certain humidity conditions and it also needs a good blend of fertilizers, not to mention protection from any male pollen that will make it fruit too soon before it's made its load of resin.

Growing your own is a pain and if you can run down to the corner store and buy it, few people will bother.

I've been told that it can run up your electricity bill as well.
I'm just not a fan of new taxes and regulating marijuana sales. Just legalize it and be done with it.
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ltbewr
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:25 am

Some of the things that made Califorina no longer have to be done in the state. That is killing off a lot of tax revenues but increasing demand for social services and aid.

The entertainment industry while largely based there has seen a lot of filming and post-production shifted to many other places to get different flavors, to lower cost areas as to labor and other costs in other states and countries. You don't need perfect year round weather to film in anymore as caused the industry to go there in the first place.

Many other industries have been chased out by the increasing taxes, State and Federal regulations (especially as to the envrioment), the high costs of living for workers especially housing as it skyrocked in the 2000-2005 period and chagnes in trade laws.

This is also compounded by a long held culture that believes in a very deep government involvement for people, a lot of direct demoracy via the Referendum and Inititave laws there - for better and for worse as well as serious envriomental and natural issues from earthquakes, access to water, and the like.

The Federal government really cannot bail out itself right now due to generations of bad politics and politicans of both parties so I don't think Cali will get a 'bail out' either. Like Greece, they will have to make major changes to live within the 'new normal' the future has.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:26 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Cannabis is THE SINGLE BIGGEST CASH CROP IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, more than soy, more than corn, more than tobacco.

And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00

Actually the thing that excites me more is that if marijuana are legalized then hemp can be actually farmed and produced industrially. Hemp is a great product with many uses and is not grown is the USA becasue of its link to marijuana. California could become a leader in hemp production.

Tugg
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Alias1024
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:53 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
Prop 13 overall is fine but the problem is people are afraid (for good reason) to tweak it (for commercial properties as you note) where it needs to be changed.

In a state with above average tax burdens and in many places sky high cost of living, Prop 13 is a good lure to get businesses to set up operations in California. The ability to easily determine their property tax burden far out into the future and not have to worry about it growing astronomically is quite attractive.
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mham001
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:35 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Yes and no. Medical marijuana dispensary pay taxes. However, there are no sales taxes of which I'm aware.

San Jose collected $290,000 in March from a 7% tax paid by collectives. This is in addition to business taxes and state sales tax.
http://www.mercurynews.com/medical-marijuana/ci_18067598
 
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:37 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 31):
Actually the thing that excites me more is that if marijuana are legalized then hemp can be actually farmed and produced industrially. Hemp is a great product with many uses and is not grown is the USA becasue of its link to marijuana. California could become a leader in hemp production.

Another reason that its illegal is that many corporations such as those whom make paper and certain fabrics/plastics are put at an incredible disadvantage against hemp because it is greener to produce thus in the long term cheaper and more sustainable.
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:26 pm

We don't need a bail out. We need to stop bailing out the rest of the country.
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 33):
San Jose collected $290,000 in March from a 7% tax paid by collectives. This is in addition to business taxes and state sales tax.

Those are the collective taxes, yes. But not sales taxes paid for by the users.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Does this retroactivley reduce the penalties for those in prison on a marijuna conviction? How about a 2-strikes criminal and had a 3rd. strike levied against him by an over-zealous procecutor and is serving time because of the marijuna part of his conviction?

Dunno.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I've been told that it can run up your electricity bill as well.
I'm just not a fan of new taxes and regulating marijuana sales. Just legalize it and be done with it.

Oh, but I think that "sin" taxes are the best kind of tax! People get their sin safely and legally. They can't justly complain about the taxes because if they don't like the taxes, they should stop "sinning." Legalize gambling, prostitution, drugs, etc. etc. etc. and tax the shit out of it! People WILL pay and as long as the taxed version is cheaper and safer and more convenient than the illegal version, you're golden!
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 36):

Those are the collective taxes, yes. But not sales taxes paid for by the users.

What part of "in addition to .....state sales tax" does not meet that criteria?
 
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:48 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 30):
The Federal government really cannot bail out itself right now due to generations of bad politics and politicans of both parties so I don't think Cali will get a 'bail out' either. Like Greece, they will have to make major changes to live within the 'new normal' the future has


Bad news for you there ltbewr, Obama just authorized a major funding from the US through the IMF specifically for Greece at US taxpayer expense. The Greece issue is really cutting into Soro's finances and insists that someone should bail Greece out. So now as a taxpayer you now are on the hook for Greece just when you thought the US was in trouble and we are loaning Greece money.

Okie
 
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:04 am

Quoting okie (Reply 38):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 30):The Federal government really cannot bail out itself right now due to generations of bad politics and politicans of both parties so I don't think Cali will get a 'bail out' either. Like Greece, they will have to make major changes to live within the 'new normal' the future has

Bad news for you there ltbewr, Obama just authorized a major funding from the US through the IMF specifically for Greece at US taxpayer expense. The Greece issue is really cutting into Soro's finances and insists that someone should bail Greece out. So now as a taxpayer you now are on the hook for Greece just when you thought the US was in trouble and we are loaning Greece money.

Okie

Yes I am aware of the USA's part as to the bail out of Greece, but the citizens there are being forced into tough austere government spending to get that bailout. For the USA, our part along with others in prevent a default of their debt helped the USA and other stock markets as the fear of a crash in Greece has been abated. Problem is how in the USA will we ever, in our political system, ever accept cutbacks and 'austerity'.
 
slider
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:06 pm

Congrats California--you just F'd yourself even more!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...mazon-tax-20110630,0,4344787.story

More actions of desperation to try to fill state coffers knowing full well it will backfire by small businesses and retailers like Amazong pulling out from their affiliate program.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/a...n-306409-affiliate-california.html

Incredible....
 
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 40):

You beat me to it. I was actually going to start a thread on this but figured it would be more appropriate here.

I am not surprised by this whatsoever. And the trade off is lost businesses/affiliates for a meager $317 million. If it was in the billions I would say, ok, this might make sense. But total revenue of $317m where they will most likely wastefully spend it does not equal a good value to me.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
Congrats California--you just F'd yourself even more!

Wow. I just don't know what else to say. Someone pull the rip cord already.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
slider
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 41):
But total revenue of $317m where they will most likely wastefully spend it does not equal a good value to me.

What will be interesting is if there even can be any metric of what will be LOST businesses or small businesses that leave the state altogether. Candidly, CA is so hostile to business in general and it's especially difficult for small biz with few employees. Now another not insignificant blow on top of that.

They project $317 mil in revenue; what's the NET going to end up? How many Californians will vote with their feet?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 42):
Someone pull the rip cord already.

You're assuming CA has a parachute...haha
 
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:10 pm

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 41):
But total revenue of $317m where they will most likely wastefully spend it does not equal a good value to me.

Not sure about this statement where the Brown budget is cutting $18B in spending. If Democrats throughout the state are calling for the governor's head, he must be doing something right.
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:49 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
Congrats California--you just F'd yourself even more!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...mazon-tax-20110630,0,4344787.story

More actions of desperation to try to fill state coffers knowing full well it will backfire by small businesses and retailers like Amazong pulling out from their affiliate program.

I am curious why you think this is an error. Quite frankly I think that most if not all internet businesses should be required to collect sales taxes just like any local business does. I do think it should be a simplified versions of it but one by one each state will implement this as it is fair to the businesses in the state and is not an undo burden on the internet retailer. Amazon will still sell to Californians and we will still get good deals. Amazon even admits that over 50% of their revenue comes from places/countries where it collects some form of sales tax on customers. The Affiliate Program is a minor program that does not have much impact in California (or anywhere), it is mainly used by charities and small fund raising groups (not that I have anything against them, I have used them in the past and their impact was small compared to other fundraising methods).

Quoting slider (Reply 43):
You're assuming CA has a parachute...haha

We do.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
NIKV69
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:22 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
If Democrats throughout the state are calling for the governor's head, he must be doing something right.

Post of the week!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Ken777
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:26 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever.

I have a friend in Palo Alto who bought his house before Prop 13 so has had his taxes kept low. If he traded houses with his neighbor those taxes. Needless to say he and his wife haven't seriously considered moving to a larger house since Prop 13 was passed.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
And I don't get why you think people should pay tax on property they own, over and over again.

Various employees, like teachers, policemen and firemen tend to want to be paid a salary every month, every year they work. Unreasonable to many, but that is how it goes and property taxes are the major source of funding for many.
 
cws818
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:57 am

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
Congrats California--you just F'd yourself even more!

The silver lining is: at least we are not Texas. Thank you, however, for your input.
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RE: Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?

Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:41 am

Quoting slider (Reply 43):
They project $317 mil in revenue; what's the NET going to end up? How many Californians will vote with their feet?

I did - and left the Los Angeles area last year. The city of Long Beach is going bankrupt thanks to its pension obligations (mainly due to the police and fire departments) and any need for any type of social service was going to be denied - unless you were an illegal alien.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin

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