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Cadet985
Topic Author
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Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:16 pm

Breaking on CNN's site now. Link to follow when it becomes available.

Link not from CNN, but still a reputable source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...ween-obama-boehner-break-down.html

[Edited 2011-07-22 15:23:47]
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:24 pm

Well, I'm sure that will be helpful to all concerned, like the entire world !   

Lets hope he changes his mind, goes back into constructive talks, and a solution is found, quickly.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:38 pm

I would love to see the deal he laid out where he said it was "extremely fair" before I comment. Either Boehner is being unreasonable or he is sick of the games being played by the president. Without this info we can't tell.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:39 pm

The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:43 pm

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.

Bull, rumors are flying all over. Especially that after meeting with some far left Dems last night and having them lambast him he walked back much on the deal he and Boehner were working on. Boehner is going to be on the factor tonight so hopefully we will get some specifics.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:54 pm

I wish Pres. Obama had the skills and leverage that LBJ had to get critical votes including as to the creation of Medicaid back in 1960's. I would want Obama to tell all the obstinate Republicans that fine, you want less government, then I am shutting down military bases, suspending government contracts, hold back payments to contractors in your districts and states until you give in

Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Obama and the Democrats will totally capitulate to their austerity and no tax plan to avoid default. I hope every Republican and captivating Democrat will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Obama and the Democrats will totally capitulate to their austerity and no tax plan to avoid default. I hope every Republican and captivating Democrat will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.

What the GOP is asking is far from austerity. It's just some common sense. Judging by the fact that Grover opened the door to letting the tax rate go back to pre Bush is leading me to believe that Obama caved into the Barbara Boxers and Bernie Sanders last night. Mostly along the lines of not touching the big entitlements. I hope Boehner is forthcoming on FOX later.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):

Bull, rumors are flying all over. Especially that after meeting with some far left Dems last night and having them lambast him he walked back much on the deal he and Boehner were working on. Boehner is going to be on the factor tonight so hopefully we will get some specifics.

Just look at the thuggish tactics being used by the tea party side threatening Republicans that were open to the 'gang of six' plan. Surely that stuff goes on with the far left and lots are pissed with Obama, but we all know the key here is the house and these freshman tea party morons who either won't vote for a ceiling increase period, or want every one of their demands for it. It seems to be they are acting worse with 1/3 of the gov than the Democrats acted with 3/3 in 2010.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Ken777
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

I would love to see the deal he laid out where he said it was "extremely fair" before I comment.

Here is one from CBS. Lots of other soured are similar.

Quote:
The deal on the table, as Mr. Obama laid it out, included more than $1 trillion in cuts to domestic and defense discretionary spending, as well as $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs - Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. He said he asked for approximately $1.2 trillion in revenue increases that he said would have come from eliminating loopholes and deductionsnot hiking tax rates.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20082266-503544.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Either Boehner is being unreasonable or he is sick of the games being played by the president.

Or maybe the Tea Party told him what he could and what he could not do. This sounds more like Cantor than Boehner.

But one really queer situation was just ann ounces on CNN - Boehner told the media that the talks were off BEFORE he told the President. That is simply plain stupid.

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.

I don't think they are at that point yet, but they are certainly making their public face very visible. I don't really know if this is a bad or good thing, but I have read headlines where the TP might be breaking up the GOP. That might be a good thing if it leaves the hard right out there and allows moderate to moderate right to be safe in their traditional party,
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:06 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Here is one from CBS. Lots of other soured are similar.

I don't think that is the deal that forced Boehner to bail. It''s a winner for the GOP. Something had to have happened. Boehner will speak in about 10 mins. Hope he gives us some info.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:09 pm

The sad part is the Tea Party could be a real positive and beneficial influence here. But let's face it, when you have big flips in Congress like we've just had, you end up with wing-nuts and morons. That's the bottom line. So many of these people are not who they should be- you'd think they'd be successful business owners, but no, it's more like the Chrstine O'Donnell type whose life has represented none of the virtues they supposedly represent. It's more arrogant blow hards with no track record and a rebranded religious right who listen to whatever these tea party leaders say than thoughtful and reasonable individuals.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
LAXintl
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:11 pm

There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives

The Dems are much of a Mafia in the hands of unions and parties that expect their non-ending social patronage.
The gravy train has to stop, and I'm certainly happy that there are enough Americans that are fed up enough to have delivered the Tea Party to Washington.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
sleekjet
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:12 pm

Obama has yet to claim ownership of the mess he created. I applaud Boehner for walkiing out every time Obama brings up tax hikes. With the incredible number of folks unemployed and with millions of others just hanging on, the last thing we need is more taxes. And, Obama rejects cut, cap, and balance...I guess because he doesn't want anything to get in the way of his spending fetish.

Good luck getting re-elected, Mr. Obama.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:12 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

The gravy train has to stop, and I'm certainly happy that there are enough Americans that are fed up enough to have delivered the Tea Party to Washington.

Too bad they came to beat their own chest instead of accomplishing anything.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
sccutler
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:15 pm

Obama and the Democrat party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Boehner and the Republicans will totally capitulate to their frenzied spending and no deficit-reduction plan to avoid default. I hope every Democrat and capitulating Republican will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Remember the Dems had total control for over two years and did nothing. So their agenda is clear.

Boehner saying the goal posts were moved and hinted cuts to Medicare and SS were not what has been leaked. Still being cryptic maybe he will tell Ingraham more.

[Edited 2011-07-22 16:19:40]
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):

True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Absolutely, closing loopholes is a great idea.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 14):
Obama and the Democrat party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Boehner and the Republicans will totally capitulate to their frenzied spending and no deficit-reduction plan to avoid default. I hope every Democrat and capitulating Republican will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.

You have got to be joking. How far from reality can you possibly be removed.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

When we borrow .40 on every dollar we spend you'd think the light bulb would have gone on a long time ago, instead it got to a point where we have to say no more. I find it pretty funny when I hear the government bashing the banks for lending money to people who couldn't pay their mortgages then the same politicians spend more than the government takes in. They should be required to fund the government the same way we run our household budgets...don't spend more than you have.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
sccutler
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):

You have got to be joking. How far from reality can you possibly be removed.

Look up in the thread (reply 5) - making a point.

As long as we operate in insults and absolutes, progress is improbable.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Mir
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

You do realize that the plan all along has been to pair the revenue increases with more spending cuts, right?

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 12):
And, Obama rejects cut, cap, and balance...I guess because he doesn't want anything to get in the way of his spending fetish.

Or maybe because it's an incredibly ideologically-driven and foolish piece of legislation. We've got two weeks left to get a deal done - you don't just decide to amend the Constitution in two weeks. That's just idiocy, and I expect better from a group of people who claim to hold the Constitution in the highest regard than to wait until the last minute to start throwing amendments around.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
something
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:42 pm

Is there anybody who believes the GOP will actually let the US default? Because if they do, oblivious of the ramifications that would have, their party must seriously be banned.

I think it's all tactics. Nobody can be that stupid. They want to make Obama look bad and most of all, they want Americans to suffer. Whenever people are in plight, they are likely to run over to the extremes. Happened with Hitler, happened recently in French elections, happens all over the world.

So the party is either completely oblivious of what they are doing, or they are deliberately sabotaging America in hopes of getting re-elected.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting something (Reply 20):
So the party is either completely oblivious of what they are doing, or they are deliberately sabotaging America in hopes of getting re-elected.

This makes no sense, they won a huge victory last election by standing by their principals and they are doing that here. Obama backed off a number of how much revenue. Seems Boehner was ready to make that deal before Boxer and Feinstein got to Obama. He is too weak to lead us. He has been Pelosi's lackey and still is.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
mt99
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:51 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Closing loopholes ARE effective tax increase. You communist!

The GOP only interest is to pave the road for its Candidatr in 2012.
Step into my office, baby
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:55 pm

This is absolutely insane. This people have more loyalty to their parties than they do to their own country!

This problem cannot be solved with ideology. We have a massive revenue problem. End the Bush era tax cuts NOW!

And yes, cut some spending.

Doing either by themselves is the road to national ruin.

I hope the Tea Party and the Radical Left collapse, because if they don't then we are truly doomed.

  B4e-Forever New Frontiers  
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:56 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
Closing loopholes ARE effective tax increase. You communist!

They aren't really. Grover Norquist said so.   

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
The GOP only interest is to pave the road for its Candidatr in 2012

They don't need to, they won on this premise already.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
something
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:59 pm

It's one thing to say Obama is weak. I am inclinded to agree, but I don't know what forces are pulling him from side to side behind the scenes. He has good ideas and leadership skills.. but that all means nothing if people don't let you do what you want. And I just don't know if, even if he were tougher, he'd actually have the room to push the agendas through as promised. I don't think you give up on virtually all your dreams and campaign promises simply because you're too weak, but because you have to realize there are too many chefs in the kitchen.

But at this point, Boehner's ideals should mean squat. Diddly squat. The only reason America's credit worthiness at the moment is stil at AAA is self interest of the rating agencies and the banks. Should America default, there's just no way anymore to keep this already embellished rating up and they'll fall down to a B+.

You wanna know what countries have a B+ credit rating as of today? Angola, Bolivia, Cambodia, Mozambique, Senegal, Uganda, Zambia just to name a few.

The US dollar is still relatively strong so even if 'you' should default, it's not like you'll be running out of money anytime soon. You can just keep on printing the goodness.

But that will piss your lendors off. And they won't give you any credits anymore, or buy treasury bonds. On the contrary, they'll do everything to get their money back as fast as possible.

Defaulting would unleash a domino effect that will make the GFC look like childsplay.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
mt99
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
really. Grover Norquist said so

So we can call you Grover now? So you agree with anything he says now?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
They don't need to, they won on this premise already.

Right - so they need to keep pushing to the finish line. The main and only goal is 2012, not the deficit or the debt limit. Those are only means to and end.
Step into my office, baby
 
NWAESC
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:06 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 17):
They should be required to fund the government the same way we run our household budgets...don't spend more than you have.

Lemme guess: You paid cash for your house, your car, your tuition, and have never used a credit card for a significant purchase.  

It's not whether or not you take on debt, but rather how effectively you can manage it.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
something
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:11 am

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 27):
It's not whether or not you take on debt, but rather how effectively you can manage it.

Debt is legitimate to accumulate during two phases of the economic cycle and has to be paid off during the other two again.

In other situations, money might be really cheap to borrow and the government spending will bring a higher return than the interest you pay on that ''loan''.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:13 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 26):
So we can call you Grover now? So you agree with anything he says now?

I am a Forbes flat tax guy. Grover did give all those House GOP members an out though so it's apparent Obama mmoved the goal posts.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:17 am

Quoting something (Reply 20):
Is there anybody who believes the GOP will actually let the US default? Because if they do, oblivious of the ramifications that would have, their party must seriously be banned.

The GOP has been offering multiple concrete budgets and plans and proposals, one after another, for the past 6 months, starting with the Ryan Plan. Obama proposed a budget that was so ludicrously irresponsible that even the Dems in Congress unanimously rejected it.

The Senate Dems have refused to take up any one of the offered plans and try to negotiate a deal - remember that in our system, the House passes a budget, the Senate takes it up and makes changes, and then they reconcile and pass the final version.

The GOP and the House have done their job. They have passed a budget. The Dems just say No, no, no. The Senate leadership has refused to live up to their responsibility for 2 1/2 years (yes, the Dems could not be bothered with passing a budget even when they were in full control). They should all be impeached for simply not doing their jobs.

And the fact that Obama has no executive experience, never run a business, or a state, or a city, or a town or ANYTHING, as we warned 3 years ago, shows up in that as CEO, it should be his responsibility to propose a budget and to lead the negotiations through Congress. He's the CEO. Congress is like the Board of Directors. It is up to the CEO to propose and lead, instead he just abdicates to Congress (While regularly saying "I'm leading" and "I take the responsibility" - which is a huge sick joke.)
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
mt99
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:26 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
Grover did give all those House GOP members an out though so it's apparent Obama mmoved the goal posts.

An "out"? Are you serious? That is proof of what this is all about! Its all about smoke and mirrors, all about pandering to the Tea Party!

If this is trully a fight for what is best for the country no "out" would have been required.

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 30):
The GOP has been offering multiple concrete budgets and plans and proposals, one after another, for the past 6 months, starting with the Ryan Plan. Obama proposed a budget that was so ludicrously irresponsible that even the Dems in Congress unanimously rejected it.

The Senate Dems have refused to take up any one of the offered plans and try to negotiate a deal - remember that in our system, the House passes a budget, the Senate takes it up and makes changes, and then they reconcile and pass the final version.

Whatever. The GOP saw this fight comming AGES ago. And they are revelling in it as part of the 2012 campaing.

How is that missed on people i dont know.
Step into my office, baby
 
Mir
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:43 am

I can't see how Boehner thinks he can do better in the Senate than he can with Obama when several Democrats in the Senate have been critical of Obama for capitulating too far. Perhaps he realized that getting a deal done would mean that Obama would share some credit, and decided it would be better politics to try and make Obama look bad and then be seen trying to pick a fight with the democrats in the Senate. I'd hope he'd be above such petty crap, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if he weren't.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
Grover did give all those House GOP members an out though so it's apparent Obama mmoved the goal posts.

Deciding to call for a Constitutional amendment with three weeks to go isn't moving the goalposts?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:45 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 31):
Whatever. The GOP saw this fight comming AGES ago. And they are revelling in it as part of the 2012 campaing.

Yes, they saw it coming - it was a central issue in the 2010 mid-term elections. It is the Democrats who refuse to live up to their responsibilities. They have had months to get off their asses.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:47 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):
I can't see how Boehner thinks he can do better in the Senate than he can with Obama when several Democrats in the Senate have been critical of Obama for capitulating too far. Perhaps he realized that getting a deal done would mean that Obama would share some credit, and decided it would be better politics to try and make Obama look bad and then be seen trying to pick a fight with the democrats in the Senate. I'd hope he'd be above such petty crap, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if he weren't.

That seems like a pretty solid analysis to me. Seems like they know they can put Obama between a rock and a hard place, and i'm sure they foam at the mouth at that notion. Just go back to the campaigns in 2010. I think the end goal of getting Obama beat in 2012 outweighs all else, including apparently, not defaulting as a country.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):
Deciding to call for a Constitutional amendment with three weeks to go isn't moving the goalposts?

No saying you want a 800 Billion in revenue then increasing it 50% is.

[Edited 2011-07-22 17:51:59]
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

Right, but no one will touch programs where cuts need to be made. The Democrats are blaming the Republicans, and the Republicans are blaming the Democrats. We have the GOP demanding cuts to NPR, Planned Parenthood, the National Endowment for the Arts, etc. which is just a drop in the bucket, but none of them have the balls to go after defense spending which is huge. Nor do any of them have the balls to go after Medicare or Social Security.

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 12):
Obama has yet to claim ownership of the mess he created.

And the GOP has yet to claim ownership of the mess they created.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
Remember the Dems had total control for over two years and did nothing. So their agenda is clear.

And what exactly has the GOP done since regaining control? Nothing? That's what I thought...

Quoting something (Reply 20):
I think it's all tactics. Nobody can be that stupid.

I agree with you. They're not that stupid. They will agree to a plan, but first they have to posture, even if ordinary Americans are left to suffer as a result of their arrogance.

Quoting something (Reply 20):
They want to make Obama look bad and most of all,

   It's not what's good for the country, it's how can we remove Obama from office in 2012.

Quoting something (Reply 20):
they want Americans to suffer.

  

Quoting something (Reply 20):
So the party is either completely oblivious of what they are doing, or they are deliberately sabotaging America in hopes of getting re-elected.

The latter.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
This makes no sense, they won a huge victory last election by standing by their principals and they are doing that here.

And I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, real cheap.  
Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
The GOP only interest is to pave the road for its Candidatr in 2012.

  

Quoting something (Reply 25):
It's one thing to say Obama is weak. I am inclinded to agree,

Yes. His problem seems to be that he is far too willing to work toward compromise. I really wish he'd grow a pair, and tell the GOP where to stick it.

Quoting something (Reply 25):
The only reason America's credit worthiness at the moment is stil at AAA is self interest of the rating agencies and the banks.

Agreed. If we were discussing a different country, it would not be AAA.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 26):
Right - so they need to keep pushing to the finish line. The main and only goal is 2012, not the deficit or the debt limit. Those are only means to and end.

        
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
something
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 30):

I want to be honest with you, dreadnought. I dislike to Republicans out of principle. NO single country in the history of mankind has ever propsered under ''Republican'' policies. I fundamentally believe that the very idea the Republican party is based on, is a fantasy.

If you call rich people ''job creators'', if you argue that homeless people are lazy and ask people to pray for the economy to bounce back.. then I am sorry, I've heard enough and I'll stop listening to you. That's more than enough information to proceed.

The ailment of the American economy is neither the Democratic nor the Republican party itself. America's problem is a seemingly education-resistant part of the society that doesn't even take the slightest interest in even finding out what the truth might be, but rather stick with misinformation that conveniently fit into their agenda.

America doesn't even have a social security net and the highest crime rate in the civilized world. That poverty and crime are somehow related seems to be lost on the Republicans. If you don't even have an understanding of such basic things, where do you go from there?

I hardly believe the GOP will not cave in and the debt ceiling will eventually be raised. The GOP is a puppet on strings of a few corporations and it would be anything but in their interest if America defaulted. But until that has happened, there's enough room to let Americans suffer to move their own political interest.

Next question is what comes after the debt ceiling is raised? And I am afraid to say that America can only prolong their demise by cutting a little here, and changing a little there. Americans don't want an overhaul of their country. And this, in my eyes, is the most tragic thing: They'd all want the change, if they understood what that change will actually mean to them. But instead of getting an education and proper information, and moving into the right direction, you have things like the tea party come to life.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:56 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
And the GOP has yet to claim ownership of the mess they created.

What does that have to do with this?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
And what exactly has the GOP done since regaining control? Nothing? That's what I thought...

A hell of a lot more than the Dems.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Yes. His problem seems to be that he is far too willing to work toward compromise. I really wish he'd grow a pair, and tell the GOP where to stick it.

He can't. He knows if he caves to Pelosi he loses huge in 2012 which at this point is a foregone conclusion anyway. The middle of the country spoke in 2010 and said NO to big government. Obama needs to come to grips with this.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
mt99
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:04 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):

He can't. He knows if he caves to Pelosi he loses huge in 2012 which at this point is a foregone conclusion anyway. The middle of the country spoke in 2010 and said NO to big government. Obama needs to come to grips with this.

He is right! Look it up in Conservapedia if you are not convinced!
Step into my office, baby
 
NIKV69
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:10 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 39):
He is right! Look it up in Conservapedia if you are not convinced!

No need to just check the 2010 election results.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
Seems like they know they can put Obama between a rock and a hard place, and i'm sure they foam at the mouth at that notion. Just go back to the campaigns in 2010. I think the end goal of getting Obama beat in 2012 outweighs all else, including apparently, not defaulting as a country.

The Republicans don't really have much to lose by dragging the process out. They get to look like they're fighting the good fight in the eyes of their base, and the longer things go on, the more chance there is for the Democrats to agree to more concessions, which the Republicans can then take credit for. The only way they really lose is if they're forced to come back and take the deal that they walked away from, or if the debt limit is reached and no deal is made.

You know Boehner is being disingenuous when he tries to pass the Cut/Cap/Balance bill off as having passed with bipartisan cooperation. More Republicans voted against it (9) than Democrats voted for it (5).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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OA412
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:22 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
What does that have to do with this?

Oh I'm sorry. I forgot that the GOP is perfect, and can do no wrong.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
A hell of a lot more than the Dems.

Keep telling yourselves that. So far they have tried to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, with Boehner declaring that one of the GOPs highest priorities is making sure that abortions are not federally funded. Such progress.  
Quoting mt99 (Reply 39):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):

He can't. He knows if he caves to Pelosi he loses huge in 2012 which at this point is a foregone conclusion anyway. The middle of the country spoke in 2010 and said NO to big government. Obama needs to come to grips with this.

He is right! Look it up in Conservapedia if you are not convinced!

  
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:34 am

Oh boy. Not gonna add my 2 cents, but let's debate a bit:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

If the Bush tax cuts had expired, I'd agree with you. But when income is reduced while keeping spending levels up, then you have two problems. Except that the spending problem won't go down much since the price of everything is increasing. Solution? Cut and tax!

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 17):
They should be required to fund the government the same way we run our household budgets...don't spend more than you have.

Then don't reduce your income in the first place (namely, Bush tax cuts done by none other than...)

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
That's just idiocy, and I expect better from a group of people who claim to hold the Constitution in the highest regard than to wait until the last minute to start throwing amendments around.

   AMEN!

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
They don't need to, they won on this premise already.

Polls right now beg to differ.

Quoting something (Reply 25):
Should America default, there's just no way anymore to keep this already embellished rating up and they'll fall down to a B+.

Actually, I read that S&P would only knock them down a notch or two to AA which is still a good rating (not the BEST, but a whole lot better than CCC).

Quoting dreadnought (Reply 30):
instead he just abdicates to Congress

If he didn't, then the post would read that Obama violated the Constitution because he needs Congress to pass legislation for him and not take unilateral action. Why doesn't he sign an Executive Order to prevent all of this from happening, where at least he gives himself some room with a modest debt ceiling increase while hammering down a plan?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Nor do any of them have the balls to go after Medicare or Social Security.

Not exactly right. Some Democrats have criticized Obama for putting SS and Medicare on the table. However, I have yet to see Republicans put defense.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
And what exactly has the GOP done since regaining control? Nothing? That's what I thought...

A hell of a lot more than the Dems.

Like? And reading the Constitution in session is not a goal. Where are the jobs Mr. Speaker?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Ken777
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):

I wish Pres. Obama had the skills and leverage that LBJ had

Those days are now gone for a while. In those days there was a lot of strong personalities who could actually work together when the nation's well being was on the line. Today it's the internet and big money spending like mad on propaganda. The GOP was the party of professional management of our economy when I was young. Now they are afraid of the TP and some bullies with money.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):

Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia,

Maybe. Maybe not. But good enough to get on my RR List.
 
something
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:56 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
I agree with you. They're not that stupid. They will agree to a plan, but first they have to posture, even if ordinary Americans are left to suffer as a result of their arrogance.

And most pervetedly, it will be exactly those Americans that will vote for them!

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 40):
No need to just check the 2010 election results.

Elections mean nothing. They aren't in any way reflective of what ''the American people'' want. Elections show you one thing: if the Republicans got enough money together to deceive, scare and mobilize enough people.

Politics is about popularity and money. Not about governing.


The moment a person says ''I am against Obama's medicare because I'll have to pay for lazy people'', your right to vote should simply be revoked. And this is something I really don't understand. The Republicans always talk about profitability, free market and other magic super powers. Yet, they don't understand that if there's essentially a monopoly on health care, you'll get rip you off. Medication, as one of the very few things in existence, is completely price unelastic. If you need medication to survive, you'll pay any price that's asked. And they find people who actually vote for such unethic exploitation (which is hard enough to believe in itself). Because you rather have people bankrupt over getting cancer, than let the government control a sector in which every profit derives from the poverty of the American people.

To the core of Republican voters freedom means being able to do what they believe in. But America is changing and it's moving away from the lifestyle of these ''tradionalists''. And they don't want to accept that. In a few years from now, white people will not be in the absolute majority anymore. Mosques will be built. Homosexual marriage will be legalized in more states. Marijuana will be legalized. The Spanish language will gain an even greater importance. At the same time, the (Christian) church will lose it's influence. And these people are afraid of that change.

And that fear is exactly what the Republican party is catering to. It really doesn't matter what they propose politically as long as it is protecting ''the America we grew up in''. Toss a little ''American dream..'', ''Exceptionalism'' and ''Christian values'' into the mix, and you've got close to 50% of the votes on your side.

Appoint a few polarizing people that live all these great American values, and you have all the room you need to pander to what any company that pays you enough demands.

And this is actually a brilliant strategy. Get all people frustrated with politics so the voter turn out is as low as possible, scare a few gullible people as much as you can and make sure they're scared enough that they participate in the elections and all others stay at home.

It really doesn't matter what the GOP says they do, will do, want to do or what values they believe in. They want to make life for companies and rich Americans easier, at no matter what expense. It's against all the values modern, western societies stand for and ridiculously unsustainable and it really shouldn't matter to me.

But it does. America's economy affects the global economy and thus, me. So, to get back to what this thread is about, when I read that 'Boehner refuses to raise the debt ceiling', it really isn't news to me. Around June 30th- Aug 1st they will reach a deal. The Republicans will sell themselves as the compromising saviors of the nation and the sprinklers will keep sprinkling. Which for the moment, is a good thing.

It will just be sad to see what's going to happen after that..
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:00 am

Quoting something (Reply 37):
I want to be honest with you, dreadnought. I dislike to Republicans out of principle. NO single country in the history of mankind has ever propsered under ''Republican'' policies. I fundamentally believe that the very idea the Republican party is based on, is a fantasy.

I appreciate the civilized manner in which you express your disagreement, and I will reciprocate by trying to explain a few things which you appear to be misguided about, in my opinion.

Republicanism is a philosophy based on the idea that democracy is not the highest possible authority, that people are endowed with "inalienable rights" that cannot be voted away by a majority of voters. It stresses liberty and inalienable rights as central values, makes the people as a whole sovereign, supports activist government to promote the common good, rejects inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent in their performance of civic duties, and vilifies corruption. (Richard Buel, Securing the Revolution: Ideology in American Politics, 1789–1815 (1972))

It is the philosophy of Republicanism and of "inalienable rights" that freed slaves and eliminated birthrights and membership of certain clans, religions or races as a basis for political and/or economic power. We are all born equal, but subject to the impact of your own decisions and those of your parents - it's called responsibility.

Is that a fantasy?

Quoting something (Reply 37):

If you call rich people ''job creators'', if you argue that homeless people are lazy and ask people to pray for the economy to bounce back.. then I am sorry, I've heard enough and I'll stop listening to you. That's more than enough information to proceed.

1) Name the last poor person who gave you a job.

2) I have never heard anyone generalize so far as to say homeless or poor people are lazy.

3) As far as praying, it can't hurt. You do realize that an economy is largely fueled by confidence (faith) that things are going OK. I won't buy a new car or house if I am worried about my job or my revenue.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
America's problem is a seemingly education-resistant part of the society that doesn't even take the slightest interest in even finding out what the truth might be, but rather stick with misinformation that conveniently fit into their agenda.

That is true - there is a huge proportion of Americans who don't have a clue about what's going on, and what the issues are and what's at stake. And while it would be good if they stayed home and did not vote, they often do vote if the election centers around something sexy. It seems that most people who voted for Obama fall into this category. Millions voted for him simply because they thought he was good looking, or "wouldn't it be nice to have a black president".

Quoting something (Reply 37):

America doesn't even have a social security net

We most certainly do - the biggest one in the world.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
That poverty and crime are somehow related seems to be lost on the Republicans. If you don't even have an understanding of such basic things, where do you go from there?

Poverty might drive some crime, but I would argue that there are cultural and social elements that cause the bulk of the crime. This includes the mentality instilled in many kids that other people "owe them" because of past wrongs centuries before. I have heard first hand black kids being told that they should not bother with finishing school because "education is a white institution". No kidding.

For one thing - you talk about poverty as if we still have millions of people living in the gutters. According to the Department of Energy, the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:

- Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.

- Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.

- Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.

- Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
I hardly believe the GOP will not cave in and the debt ceiling will eventually be raised. The GOP is a puppet on strings of a few corporations and it would be anything but in their interest if America defaulted.

There certainly is some unsavory corporate interests involved in the GOP which I deplore, but if you think that the Democrats are not just as deeply involved with their own industries, you are smokin some pretty good stuff. The current administration is totally in the pocket of GE, for example, not to mention the Unions (which are really a business), the lawyers, and other special interest groups.

Right now, the GOP is not motivated at all by corporate interests, rather by the grassroots anger of the People who are sick of government spending like drunken sailors (which is an insult to drunken sailors - even they know to stop spending when they run out of money).

Quoting something (Reply 37):
Next question is what comes after the debt ceiling is raised? And I am afraid to say that America can only prolong their demise by cutting a little here, and changing a little there. Americans don't want an overhaul of their country

I agree, which is why I want the following Constitutional Amendment:

Federal Revenues shall not be caused to exceed 20% of GDP, and Federal spending shall not be caused to exceed 20% of GDP, except in times of war declared by Congress. If the federal government runs a deficit of more than 1% of GDP for more than 2 successive years, all then-current members of Congress and the President shall be stripped of their rights to run for re-election.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
But instead of getting an education and proper information, and moving into the right direction, you have things like the tea party come to life.

So you are saying that wanting the government to stop spending our kids' money and setting up the country for stagflation is ignorant and uneducated?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:22 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
He said he asked for approximately $1.2 trillion in revenue increases that he said would have come from eliminating loopholes and deductionsnot hiking tax rates.

Of course this was after he agreed to 800 billion. The extra 400 billion would have come from taxing the very people that create the jobs to begin with. Why should anyone trust him now? Evidently you don't really have a deal with him even if he says you do. As the Speaker said this afternoon, it's like dealing with a bowl of jello.

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Or maybe because it's an incredibly ideologically-driven and foolish piece of legislation. We've got two weeks left to get a deal done - you don't just decide to amend the Constitution in two weeks

Nor will it. Even if it passes throught the House and Senate, 3/4's of the States have to ratify it and since several of the State legislatures have gone home for the year, it's not going to happen in two weeks. The idea was to get the document moving.

Quoting something (Reply 28):
Debt is legitimate to accumulate during two phases of the economic cycle and has to be paid off during the other two again.

Unfortunately we never pay off the debt, we just accumulate more. That is what has got to stop.

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):
Deciding to call for a Constitutional amendment with three weeks to go isn't moving the goalposts?

The Constitutional amendment is what a number of Congressmen ran on. That is not something that just popped up in the last three weeks.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
And what exactly has the GOP done since regaining control?

They've passed a budget, something the democratic party controlled House didn't do the previous two years. They also have passed a deficit reduction package. The democratic party controlled Senate has not even put a plan of their own up for a vote nor have they begun work on their end of the budget for next year.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
I really wish he'd grow a pair, and tell the GOP where to stick it.

I wish he'd just grow a pair and lead. Right now he is acting just like the junior Senator he was.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
NO single country in the history of mankind has ever propsered under ''Republican'' policies. I fundamentally believe that the very idea the Republican party is based on, is a fantasy.

What is Greece? Your own country has been under extremely liberal policies since the end of the second world war, what has it gotten you? Your government is in the process of doing what our government is going to have to do very shortly, make some painful decisions on what programs to cut. Sorry, your countries choices have been no better.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
America doesn't even have a social security net and the highest crime rate in the civilized world. That poverty and crime are somehow related seems to be lost on the Republicans. If you don't even have an understanding of such basic things, where do you go from there?

You clearly don't understand our country. Our problems arise from a generation of being told you can have it all and you don't have to pay for it today. We have become a nation of instant gratification types. That is what leads to crime. Stack our supposed poor up against the "poor" in Uganda and see how they shake out.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
The GOP is a puppet on strings of a few corporations and it would be anything but in their interest if America defaulted. But until that has happened, there's enough room to let Americans suffer to move their own political interest.

Now who's reading the talking points?

Quoting something (Reply 37):
Americans don't want an overhaul of their country.

Yes they do which explains the elections of 2010. They want a government that spends within its means without taxing the populace into poverty.

Quoting something (Reply 37):
But instead of getting an education and proper information, and moving into the right direction, you have things like the tea party come to life.

No wonder your country never regained the power it had prior to WW2.

Quoting Mir (Reply 41):
the more chance there is for the Democrats to agree to more concessions, which the Republicans can then take credit for.

The GOP already agreed to a deal, but then the President decided to change the agreement at the last minute to something that was unacceptable.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 43):
But when income is reduced while keeping spending levels up, then you have two problems

I seem to remember that the democrats were aghast when the deficit was just below 500 billion, but now have no problem with it being over a trillion.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 43):
Then don't reduce your income in the first place (namely, Bush tax cuts done by none other than...)

But if your income is reduced, you reduce your spending correspondingly until such time you can get your income back up.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 43):
Like? And reading the Constitution in session is not a goal. Where are the jobs Mr. Speaker?

Well the President already answered that one...they weren't as shovel ready as he thought.

Quoting something (Reply 45):
The moment a person says ''I am against Obama's medicare because I'll have to pay for lazy people'', your right to vote should simply be revoked

The moment someone says, the "government" should pay for my health care their right to vote should be revoked as they clearly don't understand where the government gets its money from.

Quoting something (Reply 45):
Yet, they don't understand that if there's essentially a monopoly on health care

In this country that is only because of laws limiting the sale of health insurance to inside a States borders.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Mir
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:56 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 47):
The Constitutional amendment is what a number of Congressmen ran on. That is not something that just popped up in the last three weeks.

They've had a year plus to bring it to the floor, and even if you only include the time when the debt limit was under discussion they've still had several months. The fact that they ran on it is even less of an excuse - if they felt that strongly about it, they should have made it a centerpiece from the very beginning of the debate, rather than waiting until now.

Quoting dxing (Reply 47):
But if your income is reduced, you reduce your spending correspondingly until such time you can get your income back up.

That is a logical way to go about it, yes (though it's not what Bush did when income was reduced). But all that's irrelevant, because the issue is not one of income being reduced - in fact, we have the opportunity to increase the income in order to help get out of the whole, whether we cut spending or not (and I think we should, as does most everyone else). This is one of those times when we can choose to get that income back up.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks

Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:04 am

If you raise taxes without cutting spending, you will burden families that are already struggling and only push off the problem.

Conversely...

If you cut spending only while not raising taxes, you will gut the government, dump thousands more on already bloated unemployment lines, and render our society and security in deep peril.

The ONLY answer is to make the surgical cuts needed and end the Bush era tax cuts.

There is no room for liberals or conservatives in this debate. There is no room for debate. Congress need to just DO ITS F#%^ING JOB!

Everything else in this thread is pointless political bleating.

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