Ken777
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Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:41 am

Now this is hard to swallow:

Quote:

Apple's $76B in cash reserves surpasses US government operating balance

New figures from the U.S. Treasury Department indicate that the government has a total operating cash balance of $73.768 billion, less than Apple's own war chest of $75.876 billion.

As noted by Matt Hartley of the Financial Post, the news comes even as Republican and Democrat lawmakers debate over the federal budget and debt ceiling. The government's $73 billion number actually represents the "financial headroom" that lawmakers have before reaching an arbitrary debt ceiling, according to the report.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._government_operating_balance.html

The odd thing about Apple's cash position is that they have continually invested in the future via R&D and other commitments. Steve Jobs has also focused on revenues in order to build cash for the future (just the opposite of politicians).


And Apple works hard to use their cash carefully. They invest in infrastructure - like the heavy investments in those machines that carve aluminum. Infrastructure investments includes deals to help finance new plants and prepaying on components.

And, also unique with computer companies, Apple focuses on consumers (the industry's lower and middle classes) and not the wealthy in the Corporate IT World. Think there is a lesson there for the politicians?
 
Airstud
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:49 am

You're saying Apple focuses on revenue, and also on the lower and middle classes.

So you're saying that's whom the government should turn to for revenue.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:35 am

It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement. They always seem to be so willing to criticize "the man" but always seem more than willing to line up around the block for days to buy the latest product from a company that is the poster child for everything they hate in capitalism, from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures, to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for, to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
spudsmac
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:44 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement. They always seem to be so willing to criticize "the man" but always seem more than willing to line up around the block for days to buy the latest product from a company that is the poster child for everything they hate in capitalism, from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures, to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for, to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.

"2"
 
aloges
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:30 am

And here we go for Mac vs. PC round no. 12 586 321, left vs. right round no. 15 225 897 and lower/middle class vs. "job creator" class round no. 14 986 475.   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:05 am

He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China, leaving the American worker struggling to get by!   
 
baroque
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:14 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 4):
And here we go for Mac vs. PC round no
Quoting racko (Reply 5):
He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China,

It's a wonder the "Would you hit it" threads have not gone the same way, perhaps they have. There is a point in relation to why some US companies hoard cash as they do. US tax treatment of dividends is a possible cause. Then again you get News which probably has even stranger financial habits than Apple does. But I don't expect there to be much discussion on financial matters, too busy having a bash at the "other side".
 
PanHAM
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:32 pm

It's not only that they sell people the hardware, they addict the users with an ever increasing number of apps and they collect - I heard 30% - of the revenues. But hat is not enough, they spy on their customers by making them transparent, follow and record every step they make, what they do, what kind of music they like, where they are, what they buy and they collect this massive information to sell it to companies who build their marketing.

That's by far better and way more profitable than narcotics trafficking and the best of all - it's legal!!! At least in the USA.
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Acheron
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for

I digress. They will probably need it when people get tired of their rehashed products or when Steve leaves and Apple is run to the ground again.

[Edited 2011-07-29 09:39:20]
 
bill142
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):

But comparing business and government financial performance is largely pointless given the two have very different objectives.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:11 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
But hat is not enough, they spy on their customers by making them transparent, follow and record every step they make, what they do, what kind of music they like, where they are, what they buy and they collect this massive information to sell it to companies who build their marketing.

I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

But whatever floats your boat, even if it's just disinformation feeding your preconceived notions.
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):

You're saying Apple focuses on revenue, and also on the lower and middle classes.

Apple's first focus has been on design and producing what they consider the best possible product. That focus is more in tune with consumers over corporations. (How many big company CEOs are concerned with the design of the 10,000 computers they buy every year?)

As far as the customer base, it runs from those in lower economic levels who want an iPod to the wealthy who can buy anything and everything. The middle class has traditionally been the largest market .


Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):

It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement.

At least you appear to be agreeing with them on your "fashion coffee".

Was it wrong for them to be able to select the computer, smart phone or tablet they wanted? You sound like a communist who hates freedom of choice for other consumers. mb

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
everything they hate in capitalism

LOL! I'm a capitalist. Grew up in a capitalist family, all the way through starting my own company. Twice. I used to be a Republican as well, but then they started eating their own, became obsessively arrogant and lost their morally way in exchange for slogans.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures,

Unix is the core of OS X and Unix is open. You can convert every Mac into a Windows computer so even the hardware is not closed. What is closed is Apple's proprietary interface with Unix. Not all that different with any other OS, like Windows.

And Macs run vitalization, allowing you to run a mountain of different OSes at the same time. Check out Parallels for a full list.

As far as "junkie" goes, some people like design, be it in their car, house, furniture, electronic devices or clothes. Not that important in China for years, but even there design is part of decisions.

And design can be software or hardware, or both. Apple has long focused on both under Steve Jobs and consumers clearly appreciate the efforts of the people there.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for,

Well, they used almost $3 Billion of their cash in auctions of patients.

And they invest heavily in the future. How many other companies are spending that much money these days on the future?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.

Some people actually believe in corporate property and believe

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
There is a point in relation to why some US companies hoard cash as they do.

If you look at Apple's history you will see that they almost went broke. They were a few month form filing when Steve Jobs returned. Over a decade Apple has built up a huge cash reserve and it's easy to see that Job's desire not to get back in the hole is the main reason.

Maybe Jobs ever realized that a strong cash position protects the company when a recession hits. While other companies are cutting staff Apple continues to invest in R&D and growth AND continues to hire. They can because of their cash.

Apple has also learned how to invest in the future by prepaying for components, including investing in building new facilities or investing in new ideas in manufacturing.

And Apple has been putting the "unused" funds at work, earning interest or profits. At some point these investments will earn more profits for Apple than Dell is able to from all their businesses.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:28 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
And Apple has been putting the "unused" funds at work, earning interest or profits. At some point these investments will earn more profits for Apple than Dell is able to from all their businesses.

That point has already been crossed quite a while ago. Apple could actually buy Dell outright – in cash if they wanted. And it wouldn't even make a major dent in their coffers.
 
flanker
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:19 pm

Its not the first time and it wont be the last time.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
Acheron
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Unix is the core of OS X and Unix is open

Unix might be open. But OS X sure as hell isn't and the fact the core might be open means little.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
You can convert every Mac into a Windows computer so even the hardware is not closed.

Eh, seems you don't completely understand when people say the hardware is closed.
It is closed. Otherwise you would be able to put any after market parts you want in it instead of just being limited to changing the RAM sticks.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:51 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 9):
But comparing business and government financial performance is largely pointless given the two have very different objectives.

Yes, but why are you quoting me? I haven't made any comparison between Apple and the Government.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

Oh, an Apple admirer and defender. I would not have bet on that one. I do not get my opinion from the net, never from one source anyhow, but this particular one is from my IT coach and it is very plausible.
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bill142
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):

The mouse on my MacBook has a mind of it's own.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
At least you appear to be agreeing with them on your "fashion coffee".

Actually, if I find myself inside a Starbucks, 9 times out of 10 is just because I am looking for a free bathroom (and the other time probably just buying a bottle of water). But then again, not really a coffee drinker, so nothing against them.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
What is closed is Apple's proprietary interface with Unix.

The software for their phones and tablets, the network for their mobile phones, the interface for their music players, the batteries for everything they make (there is a reason Apple's are not removable), up to a few years ago the format of the music you bought from them, etc. etc. etc.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Over a decade Apple has built up a huge cash reserve and it's easy to see that Job's desire not to get back in the hole is the main reason.

No, he wants to hoard cash because he is clearly a megalomaniac - you can see that by the way he behaves and presents himself. It is all pathological, really, the poor guy probably thinks he is a long-lost relative of Scrooge McDuck.

Apple's cash balance is now almost 4 years of operating expenses. That means they could not sell a single iPod for 4 whole years and still have cash to keep expenses at their current level (even with all the investment they are supposedly doing) without having to borrow any money.
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Ken777
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:31 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
The software for their phones and tablets,

iOOS was developed from OS X. There are other mobile OSes out there and all are fighting for the consumer. Let's let the consumer decide who they want to buy from.

BTW, Apple doesn't own a market. They own their proprietary designs (hard & soft) and are dependent on consumers to approve or disapprove of their products. Just like any other company in the market.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
No, he wants to hoard cash because he is clearly a megalomaniac

Steve Jobs is a genius. Hate to say it, but the guy's mind is so far ahead of the Basic Fortune 500 CEO that it is painful. Especially when those other 499 CEOs have to deliver quarterly reports that are only a shadow of Apple's.

Where Jobs outpaces other CEOs is his ability to see what will be the top product in a market 2 or 4 years into the future and to invest in R&D to develop a product that will be ahead of the market.

Look at the tablet. Apple worked on it for 4 or 5 years - doing the iPhone & touch first. When he announced the iPad he was able to show it off and then say, "If you have an iPhone or iPad you already know how to use it".

The second important part of the iPad is that the competition wasn't able to work on a competitive product until the iPad was launched - years after Apple started working on it. Let's wait another year or two and see who is making monkey off of tablets. My bet is that it will be Apple and iPad developers.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
Apple's cash balance is now almost 4 years of operating expenses. That means they could not sell a single iPod for 4 whole years and still have cash to keep expenses at their current level (even with all the investment they are supposedly doing) without having to borrow any money.

Now you're learning.

Apple has the financial power to stroll through the Great Recession, delivering record breaking quarters year after year. It has the financial power to make investments that are logical for them - such as the Nortel patents. They have the power to invest heavily in R&D, pure design or what ever else they see as important to the future.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:52 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
Now you're learning.

Not learning now, I actually do know quite a lot of corporate finance, no need for you to teach me, thank you very much. I know enough, anyway, to understand that there is a difference between financial prudence and empire building. That line might be a bit blurry sometimes, but he is so clearly over the line on this one he is about to go around and come out of the other end.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:03 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
Steve Jobs is a genius. Hate to say it, but the guy's mind is so far ahead of the Basic Fortune 500 CEO that it is painful. Especially when those other 499 CEOs have to deliver quarterly reports that are only a shadow of Apple's.

Where Jobs outpaces other CEOs is his ability to see what will be the top product in a market 2 or 4 years into the future and to invest in R&D to develop a product that will be ahead of the market.

That's great, but there's a major problem with that. If he is truly that involved with everything, Apple could be up the creek without a paddle when Jobs health finally catches up with him. Face it, the guy isn't going to live that much longer. Apple could (and likely is, IMHO) be in big trouble when he kicks the can.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:59 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
I know enough, anyway, to understand that there is a difference between financial prudence and empire building.

Then you probably understand that the near death experience of Apple would have been a strong motivator for Apple to have more than "normal" cash levels. What they set as a goal is not going to be disclosed, but is obviously going to be higher than a company that never made it close to the dark side.

I also would challenge the "empire building" bit. When Apple revealed the iPhone all the professionals were pretty critical. Consumers pretty quickly wanted one, but the market had no idea of how throng it would turn out. The same with the iPad.

Apple's success to a very large degree is based on design - both software and hardware. Maybe NOT being a Windows product helped, but Apple has fart better focus on the consumer than anyone else. Everyone else is being left behind. Apple has shown them how to do it and they still can't get it right.

It is therefore inaccurate to talk about empire building. Consumers have decided and you're trying to consider Apple guilty because they didn't fail.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
but he is so clearly over the line on this one he is about to go around and come out of the other end.

There is no line. It's a company decision and both customers and shareholders consider Apple is doing the right thing.

Apple is protected from recession or a depression. It can spend money to design, invent, and explore. They are protected from having to take the dull, safe route that the Dell of today take.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
If he is truly that involved with everything, Apple could be up the creek without a paddle when Jobs health finally catches up with him.

Jobs has done a lot to protect Apple (like the cash holdings) and they will be in a strong position. Some execs, like Jonathan Ive, are fairly well known, others are pretty quiet, but just as bright. And Jobs has also firmly established a corporate culture that will last long after he does.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:14 am

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China

Of course not. Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant?

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
And Apple works hard to use their cash carefully. They invest in infrastructure - like the heavy investments in those machines that carve aluminum. Infrastructure investments includes deals to help finance new plants and prepaying on components.

If only that infrastructure was in the US.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Maverick623
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:53 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):

I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

Actually, it is true. Every time you purchase something, that data is collected and compared to other things you have bought through that service. It all goes into a huge database, and is pulled when you're searching for something and is used to generate ads based on what the algorithm perceives your interests to be. That information may also be sold to third-party advertisers who will use it in a similar way.

The catch is: a human will probably never see that data, and it's not necessarily evil.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
That focus is more in tune with consumers over corporations. (How many big company CEOs are concerned with the design of the 10,000 computers they buy every year?)

Not really a logical argument: most big company CEOs don't make (or even see) purchase orders. The bean counters make a budget, and the managers make a decision on what they can buy within that budget. They make the decision based on the needs of the company... so yes, corporations do look at computer designs (if they can afford to).

Yes, Apple caters to the "lowly" consumer. But you can bet they also cater to corporations, from movie studios to banks.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
NIKV69
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:06 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
Yes, Apple caters to the "lowly" consumer. But you can bet they also cater to corporations, from movie studios to banks.

Absolutely.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
If only that infrastructure was in the US.

A lot of it is - major investments in the Apple Stores (which does grow employment) and let's not forget the growth in self employment based on the AppStore SDK and the market it has generated.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
That information may also be sold to third-party advertisers who will use it in a similar way.

Many companies collect and sell data form internet use. From Google to double click.

Apple does have me listed as a customer and is able to see my purchase history. That has been a help when I needed to be taken care of. Dell also used to take care of me like that, but they went cheap, moved their customer service to India and lost me on the fist week of failed support calls.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
most big company CEOs don't make (or even see) purchase orders. The bean counters make a budget, and the managers make a decision on what they can buy within that budget. They make the decision based on the needs of the company... so yes, corporations do look at computer designs (if they can afford to).

So what are those CEOs doing? Besides letting Apple outperform them?

Actually I would bet that some, like Ford's Mullay, do get involved in major purchasing decisions - maybe even negotiations.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:12 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
Oh, an Apple admirer and defender. I would not have bet on that one. I do not get my opinion from the net, never from one source anyhow, but this particular one is from my IT coach and it is very plausible.

So you're not even talking about your own prejudices, but about second-hand ones. Now these must surely trump my first-hand experiences and direct technical knowledge.

In other words: No. The claims you've echoed there are simply factually incorrect, which you will also find to be the case if you care to verify them on your own.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
the batteries for everything they make (there is a reason Apple's are not removable)

They are of course removable and Apple has explicit replacement programs, usually at the cost that field-replaceable batteries would have anyway. You can have them do it at your nearest Apple Store, you could have one of the independent service points do it or order a do-it-yourself battery kit if you want.

In exchange for the less-easy replacement of the batteries, the devices are lighter, more compact and more reliable. With the extremely rare replacement needs I've had so far, that's an excellent tradeoff in my view, and the rapidly climbing sales at continued high user satisfaction levels say that they're doing it right.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
I know enough, anyway, to understand that there is a difference between financial prudence and empire building. That line might be a bit blurry sometimes, but he is so clearly over the line on this one he is about to go around and come out of the other end.

They are accumulating cash and are using it to make their own products more attractive (by investing heavily in new technologies). They are not buying companies to build a large corporate empire, they are not trying to intimidate or sabotage their competition but they are competing on their home turf simply on the merits of their own products.

That is the exact opposite of "empire building".

You may resent them because they've got lots of money, but you should still stay somewhat close to the facts.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
Actually, it is true. Every time you purchase something, that data is collected and compared to other things you have bought through that service. It all goes into a huge database, and is pulled when you're searching for something and is used to generate ads based on what the algorithm perceives your interests to be. That information may also be sold to third-party advertisers who will use it in a similar way.

The catch is: a human will probably never see that data, and it's not necessarily evil.

When I buy anything from anyone using an identifiable means of payment, they can aggregate my purchases. That is normal and to be expected.

And that is worlds apart from the claim that Apple was somehow extracting my personal data and abusing it for nefarious ends.

The claim that Apple was "tracking" users is also bogus – they just hadn't erased the location database cache on the user's devices as often as they're doing now. That cached information would neither have revealed the users' actual positions nor was any of it sent to Apple – it always remained in the hands of the users themselves. But of course that didn't stop some people twisting it into a completely different and patently false claim nevertheless as echoed above.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:22 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
major investments in the Apple Stores (

They are not building new stand alone buildings the are renting storefronts. It's great but hardly a huge investment in infrastrucure in fact from what I see they only have one new construct planned. Again saving overhead and not investing in infrastructure and capitalizing on the depressed real estate market by probably grabbing these places for cheap leases.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:55 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 27):
They are not building new stand alone buildings the are renting storefronts. It's great but hardly a huge investment in infrastrucure in fact from what I see they only have one new construct planned. Again saving overhead and not investing in infrastructure and capitalizing on the depressed real estate market by probably grabbing these places for cheap leases.

You're almost completely wrong there. They are in fact buying and building their stores wherever feasible, but in some cases that just can't be done, as in existing malls or when local preservation rules cannot be overcome. But even then they usually rip out the core of the old building as far as possible and rebuild it internally.

"Just renting storefronts" is about as far removed from how they're going about this as it gets.

[Edited 2011-07-30 14:57:09]
 
NIKV69
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:01 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
You're almost completely wrong there. They are in fact buying and building their stores wherever feasible, but in some cases that just can't be done, as in existing malls or when local preservation rules cannot be overcome. But even then they usually rip out the core of the old building as far as possible and rebuild it internally.

"Just renting storefronts" is about as far removed from how they're going about that as it goes.

They are renting stores in malls, any stand alone buildings are also something already built and being rented. I have found plans to build one store from scratch. In fact the mega stores built from scratch seem to be outside the US not inside it.

It seems as I look at the list the majoirty of stores are rented and not stand alone or new constructions. Unless you can post a source?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China, leaving the American worker struggling to get by!

Not to mention the shocking working conditions at their factories in China..

Technology giant Apple has admitted that some of its workers in China have been poisoned and that many are regularly working in unsafe conditions.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-02-1...a-factory-workers-poisoned/1947288

Or stories like these..

http://www.crn.com.au/News/258280,th...n-chinese-apple-factory-blast.aspx

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
delivering record breaking quarters year after year.

Because most of the icrap they sell is way way overpriced and Apple sheep fans are dumb enough to buy it just because it is Apple and that "it just works"..
אני תומך בישראל
 
Ken777
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 29):
It seems as I look at the list the majoirty of stores are rented and not stand alone or new constructions. Unless you can post a source?

IIRC, Apple delivers a long term lease, not a little "rent;".

Like at Grand Central Station in New York City:



Or Paris



Or London




While some stores are in regional malls there are major stores in both the US and overseas. The work Appel has done in retailing is exceptional. Both in terms of the investments they have made in the stores and their success. Not your basic chain store company at all,.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:20 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
IIRC, Apple delivers a long term lease, not a little "rent;".

Same thing.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
Or Paris
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
Or London

Remember we were discussing US infrastructure.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for

I don't see a problem with this. There are other options for pretty much every thing Apple sells, and of course one can survive without an iPod/iPad/iPhone.. If you don't want to contribute to Apple's horde of cash, don't buy their products.

I have a bigger problem with oil companies, because almost all of use have to buy their products to get by, and they are truly gauging the public, making windfall profits, dragging the country down, and are totally unapologetic about it.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
What is closed is Apple's proprietary interface with Unix

I don't understand why Apple supporters have a hard time saying that Apple uses closed architectures and that Apple tries to tightly control almost every aspect of the Apple ecosystem. Apple itself says it does these things to prevent others from degrading the user's experiences, yada yada. Some people find this to be a good things, others do not, but there's no denying it's there.
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:48 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
Same thing.

Not when you look at the money involved. And the capital investment in building out their stores. Even when they do to the "mall route" they are making some serious investments in their stores.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 32):
Remember we were discussing US infrastructure.

Which is why I put their 5th Avenue Store first. The interesting part of what Apple does with their Flagship Stores is that they push the standard of architecture within the framework available. The 5th Avenue and London Stores are solid examples.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Apple itself says it does these things to prevent others from degrading the user's experiences, yada yada

Apple keeps their design work proprietary - they always have. On the software side Apple has always said that they are a software company and the hardware is there to support the sale of software. "Software" thee days includes their percentage from music (iTunes) applications (the AppStore) etc. Lion at $29 will sell a few million copies, as does iLife and (now) iWork.
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:00 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):
If only that infrastructure was in the US.

A lot of it is - major investments in the Apple Stores (which does grow employment) and let's not forget the growth in self employment based on the AppStore SDK and the market it has generated.




More McDonald's job's at the mall while manufacturing goes overseas

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
You're almost completely wrong there. They are in fact buying and building their stores wherever feasible, but in some cases that just can't be done, as in existing malls or when local preservation rules cannot be overcome. But even then they usually rip out the core of the old building as far as possible and rebuild it internally.

"Just renting storefronts" is about as far removed from how they're going about this as it gets



Not in the US. Just typical mall storefront rentals....

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
While some stores are in regional malls there are major stores in both the US and overseas. The work Appel has done in retailing is exceptional. Both in terms of the investments they have made in the stores and their success. Not your basic chain store company at all,.




But it is still retail jobs while the manufacturing is sent overseas. More McApple jobs.
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:08 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
LOL! I'm a capitalist. Grew up in a capitalist family, all the way through starting my own company.

Would you still be singing the same tune if this was the Appple Oil Company making record profits and hoarding cash? Or would they then be evil oil robber barons who need to be taxed more?
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 36):
Would you still be singing the same tune if this was the Appple Oil Company making record profits and hoarding cash? Or would they then be evil oil robber barons who need to be taxed more?

My father spent 43 years working in an oil company so I doubt if I would have a problem.

To make it simple, I don't support Apple in other companies getting special tax bread to bring cash to the US, nor do I support the $4 Billion handout to the oil companies in special loopholes when we cannot afford to take care of the sick & elderly.
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
nor do I support the $4 Billion handout to the oil companies in special loopholes when we cannot afford to take care of the sick & elderly.

But you are okay with Apple sending all of their manufacturing jobs to China so they an make an obscene profit? All those revenue generating jobs that would do great for our economy.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 37):
nor do I support the $4 Billion handout to the oil companies in special loopholes when we cannot afford to take care of the sick & elderly.

So why will the poor sick and elderly not be on the hands of Apple also? Why are you not on them for not repatriating cash they are hoarding oversea? Everything seem all right with the world at Apple for you. With these obscene profits they should be taxed more. And what is $4 Billion when the oil companies are still generating 10's of Billions in profits for the Feds?
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:36 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
Not in the US. Just typical mall storefront rentals....
Some of them, notably in existing malls as you've said. Others are purpose-built where possible.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
I don't understand why Apple supporters have a hard time saying that Apple uses closed architectures and that Apple tries to tightly control almost every aspect of the Apple ecosystem.

Because this is an overly simplistic statement which just isn't accurate.

Apple controls many crucial aspects of their products, but that is only half the story.

Their "second coming" is also quite distinctly marked by a wide-ranging committment to open standards, something Microsoft still has a hard time embracing.

Almost everywhere where it's practical, they use non-proprietary industry standards: Unix, MP3, AAC, h.264, XML, SSL, and so on. In many cases they are even contributing massive resources to the development of open source projects, such as WebKit, CUPS, LLVM and CLANG or are even opening their own proprietary developments for the open source community (launchd, Grand Central, C/C++/Objective C Blocks etc.). Gone are the days of proprietary formats and protocols, for the most part.

Not all of Mac OS X is available in source form, but in stark contrast to Windows, much of it is. And the running system is very much hackable, configurable and extendable (not least through the properties of Objective-C on which much of it is based).

Yes, they are keeping a tight lid on some aspects which they consider crucial strategic assets, but these are actually the exception, rather than the rule.

I know this meme will die hard (if ever), but it's simply not true in its proposed simplicity.
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:42 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
Not in the US. Just typical mall storefront rentals....
Some of them, notably in existing malls as you've said. Others are purpose-built where possible

Almost all of them here in the states.
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Almost everywhere where it's practical, they use non-proprietary industry standards: Unix, MP3, AAC, h.264, XML, SSL, and so on. In many cases they are even contributing massive resources to the development of open source projects, such as WebKit, CUPS, LLVM and CLANG or are even opening their own proprietary developments for the open source community (launchd, Grand Central, C/C++/Objective C Blocks etc.). Gone are the days of proprietary formats and protocols, for the most part.

There is simply no love out there for my MPW software projects in MrC for System 6...
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:14 am

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
But you are okay with Apple sending all of their manufacturing jobs to China so they an make an obscene profit? All those revenue generating jobs that would do great for our economy.

You build your jobs where you can. Maybe if this country didn't use employer nanny care it would be easier to expand manufacturing.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Why are you not on them for not repatriating cash they are hoarding oversea?

They can bring back as much as they want. I just don't support special tax cuts for bringing in the money.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
With these obscene profits they should be taxed more.

I have no problem with strong profits based on consumer free choices. Apple started with computers and there has been free choice there for generations now. Then Apple moved into MP3 players - again free choices have been available from Day 1 of the iPod. And let's not forget smart phones. Again free choices for consumers from Day 1 and they have now now made the iPhone the #1 smart phone. And Tablets? Lots of choices for consumers and, as competitors continue to copy Apple, there will be more iPad like tablets providing more free choice.

So guess what? Apple delivers what consumers want more that other free choices. Profits are based on investments and risks taken. Not to difficult to understand.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:12 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 41):
There is simply no love out there for my MPW software projects in MrC for System 6...

Well, yes, there is... for such old-time software you'll just have to look for old-time Classic Macs to run them on.  
 
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:00 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
I don't understand why Apple supporters have a hard time saying that Apple uses closed architectures and that Apple tries to tightly control almost every aspect of the Apple ecosystem.

Because this is an overly simplistic statement which just isn't accurate.

Apple controls many crucial aspects of their products, but that is only half the story.

Ok, you are right, both sides should be stated.

So what if the statement was "While Apple uses many open standards/protocols/components in its products, and while it participates in extending many open standards/protocols/components, it also uses closed architectures as well, and tries to tightly control almost every aspect of the Apple ecosystem"?
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance

Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
So what if the statement was "While Apple uses many open standards/protocols/components in its products, and while it participates in extending many open standards/protocols/components, it also uses closed architectures as well, and tries to tightly control almost every aspect of the Apple ecosystem"?

"Almost every aspect" is just incorrect. They are quite selective about what they keep under wraps.

Even iOS is quite accessible by itself; Just when you want to sell products for iOS devices, the level of control goes up. Developing for it means mostly dealing with documented frameworks and standard protocols.

And Mac OS is very liberal all around. No activation, no copy protection, tons of standard Unix mechanisms, free developer tools, extensive ways of fiddling with the system at will, free development and distribution of hard- and software (unless you're stepping on Apple's trademarks).

Mac OS X is very much in the middle between Windows and Linux in many aspects.

And the relative security situation between Android and iOS pretty much says it all about levels of control which might be necessary, not just deliberate.

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