varigb707
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Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:09 pm

According to a study conducted, the TP is less popular than atheists and muslims...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...ss-popular-atheists-160220531.html
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Dreadnought
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:16 pm

So continues the efforts of the left in this country and their allies in the media to vilify and marginalize the efforts of people who dare to object to runaway government growth in spending.

With all the talk about the debt last month, it's as if all you guys had your fingers in your ears, going "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA !"
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:24 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
So continues the efforts of the left in this country and their allies in the media to vilify and marginalize the efforts of people who dare to object to runaway government growth in spending.

Ask around. In fact, I suggest we open a poll thread where we ask if you hold a favorable or unfavorable view of the Tea Party. Just that.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
fr8mech
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:49 pm

You know, when I forst saw this article, my initial thought was:

Maybe, we're (Americans in general) not as bigoted, xenophobic and racist as we're made out to be by the media. Maybe that's why a poilitcal movement is less popular than other groups of people.

Then, I saw it was linked to a NYT op-ed and realized that it was probably some sort of fiction. Oh well. But, kidding aside, until I see the methodology, the sample, the questions, etc., I'll reserve judgement.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
Ask around. In fact, I suggest we open a poll thread where we ask if you hold a favorable or unfavorable view of the Tea Party. Just that.

That's the problem. The Tea Party label has been successfully vilified by the left. But if you do a poll that asks, do you think that the government is spending too much, that it has outgrown its authority, without mentioning the Tea Party, you will get much different results.

The Tea Party's agenda (less centralized government, balanced budgets) is a direct backlash threat to the Progressive agenda which has accelerated over the past century, and really, really stepped on the gas 3 years ago. It's individual agenda points are popular - but it's tough to beat the propaganda arm of the Left when they control most of the outlets.

Look at the questions conducted by most polls. Most of them are meaningless or misleading. Do you approve of (person X)? That is utter oversimplification. How about polls that ask for concrete opinions? Do you favor the elimination of the current tax code and replace with a much simplified tax code with almost no deductions and loopholes and with lower rates, or do you favor keeping the current tax code? Do you favor mandatory spending cuts if federal spending exceeds revenues by more than X% In which departments should those cuts be felt the most? I very rarely see any questions that get down and dirty like that.
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PPVRA
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:10 pm

If that was true, the Democrats would have had a much better result in Wisconsin's recall elections recently. Alas, they fell far short of their goal and the change was minimal.

That's not to say I am happy with the way things are going with the Tea Party in general.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Tugger
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Like their ideas, can't stand their current intransigence on making sausage, I mean compromises, needed to make thing work in the legislature.

Tugg
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
If that was true, the Democrats would have had a much better result in Wisconsin's recall elections recently. Alas, they fell far short of their goal and the change was minimal.

Um... Luther Olsen held on in District 22 52% to 48%. If he had lost- a matter of 1,000 votes going the other way- the Democrats would have completely achieved their objective. It was a political draw, gaining 2 but not the necessary 3 seats to get the senate. "Far short of their goal"? Really? What would be a 'just miss"??
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Mir
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:36 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
How about polls that ask for concrete opinions? Do you favor the elimination of the current tax code and replace with a much simplified tax code with almost no deductions and loopholes and with lower rates, or do you favor keeping the current tax code?

That sort of question is worse, because it allows for no middle ground. For instance, I'm in favor of simplifying the tax code, but not to the extent of having no deductions, or even almost no deductions. So what am I supposed to answer to that question? If I choose the second option, it makes it seem like I think everything is fine the way it is now, which I don't. But if I choose the first option, it makes it seem like I want far more revamping than I actually do. Either way, my voice is going to be misrepresented.

At least with the "do you approve of Person X's overall handling of Issue A?" questions, I can weigh the things I agree with and the things I don't and come up with an answer that would fit a scale of 1 to 10.

-Mir
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NIKV69
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:40 pm

Can't win on the issues. So of course the "take your eye" off the ball campaign will be used.

The only poll that matters is the one being held in Nov 2012. I will reserve judgement till then.
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PPVRA
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:43 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 8):
Um... Luther Olsen held on in District 22 52% to 48%. If he had lost- a matter of 1,000 votes going the other way- the Democrats would have completely achieved their objective. It was a political draw, gaining 2 but not the necessary 3 seats to get the senate. "Far short of their goal"? Really? What would be a 'just miss"??

I would say a "political draw" is far short from their goal, yes. Especially given the noise levels that were raised.

Compare that to the noise the Tea Party raised in 2008, and the results they got.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:45 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
That sort of question is worse, because it allows for no middle ground. For instance, I'm in favor of simplifying the tax code, but not to the extent of having no deductions, or even almost no deductions.

That's an issue to be brought up when designing the poll and making appropriate adjustments. The point is that the poll should be indicative of the direction people want to move.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
At least with the "do you approve of Person X's overall handling of Issue A?" questions, I can weigh the things I agree with and the things I don't and come up with an answer that would fit a scale of 1 to 10.

Satisfaction/dissatisfaction polls mean little or nothing. First of all, they are too general. You might "approve" of someone because of a common enemy, or simply because he/she is "hot", or because they are on your side on a particular favorite issue of yours - but not everything else, etc.
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
I would say a "political draw" is far short from their goal, yes. Especially given the noise levels that were raised.

It was a 'poliitcal draw' because they didn't take the senate. That does not mean they weren't very damn close to taking the senate. They were not far short from their goal, not at all.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):

Compare that to the noise the Tea Party raised in 2008, and the results they got.

You honestly can't be comparing a full election cycle to this 8 state senate recall elections. Flipping 2 of 6 isn't exactly a bad rate, but of course it pains my heart to perpetually see the more moderate candidates form moderate disticts tossed around while the right wing nut jobs and inner city idiots sit comfortably. Surely the tea party hell raised and came onto the scene with a big and successful splash, but that's apples to oranges.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
PPVRA
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RE: Tea Party, Just An Afterthought?

Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:08 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 13):
It was a 'poliitcal draw' because they didn't take the senate. That does not mean they weren't very damn close to taking the senate. They were not far short from their goal, not at all.

Obama carried the Olsen district in 2008. Olsen should have lost by at least a thin margin, especially given how energized the Democrats were, but didn't.

In the end, it doesn't matter. The recall elections failed to impress anybody (left or right) and this is evident by the mute reception by the media. Each party will claim victory, just as they are doing.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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