fr8mech
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Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Was listening to Medved this afternoon and he aired this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kuTG19Cu_Q

Obama was on the stump in 2008. So, what has changed? How much has Obama added in just 2 years? What are the prospects?

Food for thought.
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goblin211
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:38 pm

Why were you listening to Medvedev? What was he saying about the US/Obama that made you do this post?
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stasisLAX
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:02 am

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, what has changed? How much has Obama added in just 2 years

The robber-barons on Wall Street crashed the global banking system and the real estate bubble burst, leading to mass confusion and anxiety in corporate boardrooms around the country, thus leading to the massive layoffs or offshoring of good-paying American jobs. Greed won, patriotism be damned - that is what happened in a nutshell.

Enough Obama bashing and irresponsible labeling - let's be Americans and work out our differences and relearn the art of compromise. That would be a POSITIVE change that WE all can believe in.

This registered Libertarian is tired of all of the rhetoric - Democratic and Republican potlitical leaders need to show RESULTS, not just "activity" and "partisanship". Otherwise, we all should be supporting third party candidates in the next general election.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:19 am

Quoting goblin211 (Reply 1):
Why were you listening to Medvedev? What was he saying about the US/Obama that made you do this post?

Medved, not Medvedev.

Website

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
Enough Obama bashing and irresponsible labeling - let's be Americans and work out our differences and relearn the art of compromise. That would be a POSITIVE change that WE all can believe in.

Compromise is the soup where principles dissolve. ~paraphrased from an unknown source

Actually, I'm a fan of compromise, when it benefits me or my cause. That is the Liberal mantra, isn't it?

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
that is what happened in a nutshell

No, what happened was that Obama and the Left capitalized on a recession, that was exasperated by high fuel prices. The real estate bubble helped them immensely. Throw in a mediocre GOP candidate. And, you have a political victory. Then, the spending begins and it is no longer "irresponsible' or "unpatriotic" to spend way beyond our means.

That's what happened.

Oh yeah, and the Pelosi/Obama/Reid economic/social agenda have kept us in recession since it began.
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:01 am

http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/3492.html



I would say that compromise is more than the mantra of Liberals. I suggest compromise is responsible for our Constitution. Thank goodness we had people with enough intelligence to realize that we cannot have our way all the time. I suggest the Repbulicans and TP folks realize this, before we have no Constitution.

[Edited 2011-08-24 20:11:14]
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fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I suggest compromise is responsible for our Constitution.

I'll more than suggest it. I'll declare it. Our Constitution was built on compromise and principle.

My point is that when you compromise, you must rely on your principles and not compromise them. The GOP should not compromise away their core principles.

Back to the original video. Why hasn't the media attacked Obama for calling Bush's spending irresponsible and unpatriotic, while he spends us over a cliff?

The man is a hypocrite, a liar, a political opportunist and bad for this country. He was the wrong man at the wrong time. An inexperienced dilettante that is playing at being President.
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baroque
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:53 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
stasisLAX

What a relief to read a post like that.

By contrast, the dirges of "hypocrite, a liar, a political opportunist" are really getting very tiring. An inexperienced dilettante playing at President, yes that was Bush. Whatever it was that Obama did before coming to office, he was more successful at it than the Bush association with Arbusto and Harken - and I do not recall the Bin Ladens investing in Obama's previous enterprises.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):

That's nice, deflection.

Let's recenter.

I will repeat:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 5):
Back to the original video. Why hasn't the media attacked Obama for calling Bush's spending irresponsible and unpatriotic, while he spends us over a cliff?

Why wasn't it ok, to Obama, for Bush to spend irresponsibly and unpatriotically, yet it's perfectly ok for Obama to do so?

I'm just hoisting him with his own petard.
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n318ea
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:36 am

The Internet (Thanks Al)is a wonderful thing!. I save clips like these for the Progressive/Liberals whom are so fond of re-writing history. One of the best is President Clinton, Hilary, Teddy and Kerry on WMD in Iraq.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i87cZ3Og6ts
Another keeper.  
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seb146
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Why wasn't it ok, to Obama, for Bush to spend irresponsibly and unpatriotically, yet it's perfectly ok for Obama to do so?

Let's be clear here: The Constitution grants powers of spending to the House. Not the president. Much as I think Bush was not a leader at all, how many years of right-wing spending were there that were approved and off-the-books? When the Democrats finally took over in 2008, all that spending was put on the books and, lo and behold, it was all the Democrats fault for over spending. It was the Democrats fault for wanting a nation wide and open and honest dicussion about health care and that ment no budget passage; again blame for Democrats. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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baroque
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Why wasn't it ok, to Obama, for Bush to spend irresponsibly and unpatriotically, yet it's perfectly ok for Obama to do so?

Let's be clear here: The Constitution grants powers of spending to the House. Not the president. Much as I think Bush was not a leader at all, how many years of right-wing spending were there that were approved and off-the-books? When the Democrats finally took over in 2008, all that spending was put on the books and, lo and behold, it was all the Democrats fault for over spending. It was the Democrats fault for wanting a nation wide and open and honest dicussion about health care and that ment no budget passage; again blame for Democrats. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Not much I need to add except there is a graph showing spending and revenue loss that were initiated under Bush and similar for under Obama - posted I think by Racko. Next time I will save it. But by far the major part of the current expenditure results from Bush admin commitments. History can be unforgiving.

So basically that summary of O and B is twaddle - not to mention being wrong in fact.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:24 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 10):

I see that the lead Obama apologists will still deflect the argument.

This isn't a question about spending per se. It is about a hypocrite that claimed one thing while running for the office and then, when in the office, did the same thing, except at a much higher level.

Oh, by the way. I'm going to guess that if you used the search function you will not find one instance of my defending the Bush Administration's rubber stamp of Congressional largesse.
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NIKV69
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:57 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
Enough Obama bashing and irresponsible labeling

Then what is this?

The robber-barons on Wall Street

If you want the rhetoric to stop one could set an example.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
baroque
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:20 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 11):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 9):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 10):

I see that the lead Obama apologists will still deflect the argument.

The word deflection must have taken on a new meaning since I lived in the US. One more time with feeling, most of the current debt is due to commitments made under the Bush administration, or to revenue foregone as a result of Bush tax cuts that Obama wished to terminate.

Obama does have a problem, paying off his inheritance.
 
planespotting
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Actually, I'm a fan of compromise, when it benefits me or my cause. That is the Liberal mantra, isn't it?

Haha. You're being totally sarcastic, right?

Have you been paying attention to the compromises democrats have made during the course of Obama's administration? None of their compromises have benefited anyone but conservatives, yet they still keep making them.
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planespotting
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:47 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Why wasn't it ok, to Obama, for Bush to spend irresponsibly and unpatriotically, yet it's perfectly ok for Obama to do so?

And to answer this question, Obama has added most of his share of nat'l debt on Stimulus to fix an economy that was (and is) broken. Bush and a Republican Congress added to the nat'l debt during prosperous times (and on very long-term additions to the nat'l debt that Obama and subsequent administrations will have to pay for without any additional means to pay those obligations, such as Medicare Part D and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan).

In fact, they now have even less to pay for those obligations because of lower-than-necessary tax rates that haven't done anything to boost a very-much struggling economy.
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fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:57 pm

Quoting planespotting (Reply 14):
Have you been paying attention to the compromises democrats have made during the course of Obama's administration? None of their compromises have benefited anyone but conservatives, yet they still keep making them.

All of Obama's compromises, while his party enjoyed majorities in both the House and Senate were to keep Democrats on his side. All except he Obama tax increases that were scheduled to go into effect on 1-Jan-11, but, by then the poeple had already spoken.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 15):
Stimulus

Didn't, no, couldn't work. There were no 'shovel-ready', there were no plans other than 'get the money to the States so that they can prop up their budgets'. An absolute waste of ~$800B, plus the opportunity cost of actually using that money for something useful, like not borrowing it from 'who-ever'.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 15):
lower-than-necessary tax rates

How about 'lower-than-necessary tax revenues' due to the business adverse environment that Obama and gang have engendered since day one.

Ok, I guess we'll never understand how Obama (and his sycophants) rationalize his responsible and patriotic spending while lambasting Bush's 'irresponsible' and 'unpatriotic" spending.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:02 pm

What happened?

The Great Recession happened.

The housing crash from the liar loans.

The banks.

The Auto Bailout.

Bush left one hell of a mess and Obama stopped us from going into a genuine Depression.

Only at TPer would believe that could be done on the cheap.
 
D L X
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Compromise is the soup where principles dissolve. ~paraphrased from an unknown source

"The problem with quotations you read on the internet is that it is difficult to determine their veracity." -Abraham Lincoln
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:34 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):

"The problem with quotations you read on the internet is that it is difficult to determine their veracity." -Abraham Lincoln

I like that.

Didn't read it though..heard it...though the guy I heard it from probably read it...or it was read to him...it was on the Thom Hartmann show on Sirius Left.   
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planespotting
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Didn't, no, couldn't work.

Yes, because it was too small. Again, the president compromised to try and get Republicans to sign on - like every piece of major legislation he has tried to put forth. If you somehow ignore that fact then you don't care to see any truth at all.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
How about 'lower-than-necessary tax revenues' due to the business adverse environment that Obama and gang have engendered since day one.

Ahh yes, this hypothetical business-averse environment that hasn't attempted to take on anything like climate change or corporate tax rates. In fact, all they took on was healthcare reform, and unless you're a health insurer, that won't affect your business until 2013, and only then on business who don't already provide employees some kind of healthcare coverage.

Yes, what a terrible, anti-business environment our poor businesses have had to put up with. The large, multi-national company I work for has been doing great, and so have a ton of other businesses too. They're just holding onto their money or returning it to their shareholders in the form of stock buybacks and dividends, instead of investing in their business. They're returning cash to shareholders because they're afraid to go overboard hiring employees so they don't ever get caught overextended again, which means lots of people are still looking for jobs, which is why the stimulus should have been larger in the first place, both to promote more hiring and less cash hoarding.
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D L X
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:51 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 19):
Didn't read it though..heard it...though the guy I heard it from probably read it...or it was read to him...it was on the Thom Hartmann show on Sirius Left.

Either way, I'll add one more:

"No problem has ever been solved by a principle." - D L X
 
Ken777
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 21):
"No problem has ever been solved by a principle." - D L X

Tell that to Steve Jobs.
 
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:37 pm

President Obama "anti business"..hows that? If that were true, how much of the TARP funds went to "business" compared to "main street?" As for the promises made during the election, do you honestly think canditate Obama was privy to how rotten the core of the economy was? I have a pretty good hunch that he got a bit of a shock when Bush handed over the keys...
Carpe Pices
 
fr8mech
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting bhill (Reply 23):
President Obama "anti business"..hows that? If that were true, how much of the TARP funds went to "business" compared to "main street?"


TARP was Bush. I grudgingly supported TARP, not because it was Bush and certainly not because I'm a fan of governmental bailouts of businesses that are failing, especially those that were badly managed. I was ok with it because if the US banking system collapsed, then we would be living in a much different world right now. One, that most of us, except the hardest of the hard-core Marxists, wouldn't want to envision. That bail-out was a psychological necessity.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
Yes, because it was too small. Again, the president compromised to try and get Republicans to sign on


Again, his compromises had nothing to do with the GOP and had everything to do with getting his party in line. The only thing (in the House) bi-partisan about Stimulus was the opposition to it. Same thing about PPACA. So, to say that he compromised for the GOP is to be disingenuous.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
because it was too small


So, you want Obama to be more 'irresponsible' and 'unpatriotic'?
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MAH4546
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:10 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 11):
This isn't a question about spending per se. It is about a hypocrite that claimed one thing while running for the office and then, when in the office, did the same thing, except at a much higher level.

There's no point arguing with a democrat. Once you utter the words "citing facts," they go on a tangent.

It's no surprise Obama acts the way he does. He is an irresponsible leader, he is largely responsible for the mess today and he refuses to listen to the majority of Americans, who oppose his views and are conservative thinkers.
a.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Why wasn't it ok, to Obama, for Bush to spend irresponsibly and unpatriotically, yet it's perfectly ok for Obama to do so?

I'm just hoisting him with his own petard.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 11):
I see that the lead Obama apologists will still deflect the argument.

This isn't a question about spending per se. It is about a hypocrite that claimed one thing while running for the office and then, when in the office, did the same thing, except at a much higher level.

Oh, by the way. I'm going to guess that if you used the search function you will not find one instance of my defending the Bush Administration's rubber stamp of Congressional largesse.

OK, from a Republican: The simple reason is that during the Bush II years, he had a surplus, a booming economy, a Republican legislature for time, and yet he did not bring spending back in line and begin to pay down the debt as he could have and should have. He should have lead a drive for a balanced budget which with the factors I mentioned above could have been done and WHICH IF DONE WOULD HAVE NEGATED President Obama's and Congress' ability to spend us into oblivion and we would not be in the mess we are in.

In short, Bush II did not do what he should have done and for that he was "irresponsible and unpatriotic" to all Americans. It has nothing to do with what Obama has said, it has everything to do with what Bush II should have done to protect the nation from what you are saying Obama is doing.

Tugg
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WarRI1
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:22 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Obama does have a problem, paying off his inheritance.

He certainly does.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
What happened?

The Great Recession happened.

The housing crash from the liar loans.

The banks.

The Auto Bailout.

Bush left one hell of a mess and Obama stopped us from going into a genuine Depression.

Only at TPer would believe that could be done on the cheap.

Absolutely

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
It's no surprise Obama acts the way he does. He is an irresponsible leader, he is largely responsible for the mess today and he refuses to listen to the majority of Americans, who oppose his views and are conservative thinkers.

Take a look at the approval rating of congress, versus Obama.

Quoting tugger (Reply 26):
In short, Bush II did not do what he should have done and for that he was "irresponsible and unpatriotic" to all Americans. It has nothing to do with what Obama has said, it has everything to do with what Bush II should have done to protect the nation from what you are saying Obama is doing.

Yes indeed.
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steeler83
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Oh yeah, and the Pelosi/Obama/Reid economic/social agenda have kept us in recession since it began

I believe that's what has happened. I never trusted the Obama Administration, and I still don't. Government intervention will not solve anything; it will only exacerbate our already large problems. "Tax everything, spread the wealth, and all our problems are solved" will just put everyone either deeper into poverty or less well off in the long run. No progress will be made IMO...
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Tugger
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RE: Obama: That's Irresponsible. It's Unpatriotic

Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:02 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 28):
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Oh yeah, and the Pelosi/Obama/Reid economic/social agenda have kept us in recession since it began

I believe that's what has happened. I never trusted the Obama Administration, and I still don't. Government intervention will not solve anything; it will only exacerbate our already large problems. "Tax everything, spread the wealth, and all our problems are solved" will just put everyone either deeper into poverty or less well off in the long run. No progress will be made IMO...

Please demonstrate where this has happened. "Belief" in this situation is not enough.

Tugg
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