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fxramper
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Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:52 am

This is why Steve Jobs quit his job. How many more times are they going to allow incompetent pimple faced engineers to take a prototype out to a bar and lose the phone. I hope Samsung crushes Apple with their new Galaxy S II.   


article

article
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:28 am

If true, this just seems like too much of a coincidence and prefect timing, IMO.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:07 am

I was going to ask if Apple was going to send their storm-troopers in, but it is too late, seems like they already have.

The funny thing is that they searched a man's home based on geo-referencing data that Apple collected saying the phone was there - the same geo-referencing data that Apple was keeping track of in every single iPhone but still denies it collects and analyzes.
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Doona
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:13 am

History is bound to repeat itself, apparently.

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
I hope Samsung crushes Apple with their new Galaxy S II.

I've been rockin a Galaxy SII phone for the past month now, and I love it. No complaints (yet).

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:58 am

Samsung have come along way and that applies to a lot of their products ( Smart TVs etc... ) . Having used all of the Galaxy's including the new one I have to say they work well. I still wouldn't swap my iPhone for one though but its a good second place. They have not been without their issues though. They have a habit of disconnecting themselves from the mobile data and MMS functions. You have to go into ''Restore to default'' and tick ''Use packet data'' to reactivate it. This can be a pain for people who are not into their gadgets. Apparantly there is no way to stop it doing that either unless Samsung have just recently rolled out a software upgrade.

Im looking forward to the new iPhone though and will be interesting to see its onboard improvements. Not sure if I will buy yet depends on whats new that will benefit me.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:01 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Cue scene from Red October:

[mock-compassionate voice] You lost another one? [/mock-compassionate voice]

  

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
The funny thing is that they searched a man's home based on geo-referencing data that Apple collected saying the phone was there - the same geo-referencing data that Apple was keeping track of in every single iPhone but still denies it collects and analyzes.

Utter rubbish. The recent storm in a thimble about location data was about data which were cached on the device itself and were never transmitted to anyone.

Apple apparently just used the standard Find My iPhone feature which allows any owner of an iPhone to find his own device after having it lost or stolen, if he's enabled the feature before.

There are already multiple reports of ordinary users who retrieved their devices even from thieves by locating it that way.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:14 pm

Yeah sure, they always lose their prototypes.  

It's a viral scam – just to produce new wet dreams for their sectarians. 
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PC12Fan
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:04 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
If true, this just seems like too much of a coincidence and prefect timing, IMO.

That's just what I was thinking. Dumb like a fox move.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:05 pm

Yaaaaaaaaawn, this marketing gag is getting boring. I could believe that the first one was really an accident, but twice within a year or two? C'mon   .
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
D L X
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
article

article

How is the second article relevant to the first?


And why do you hope that Samsung's product crushes Apple?

For all the accusations of fanboyism, it never ceases to amaze me just how much the people who cry "fanboy!" are actually the ones most under Apple's control. Do you get that worked up over other corporate competition?
 
racko
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:52 pm

 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:25 pm

Seems like Apple is slowly losing the leading role, so instead they start suing their competitors and start making up new ways of getting free publicity. How about concentrating on making superior products instead?

I hope Google can give Apple a real lesson with all the Motorola patents they just get access to, and hopefully this patent war that Apple started will end again soon, so we can let the market forces once again decide which products are the best.
 
RGElectra80
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:17 am

Come on, guys, let's not get hoodwinked by the Apple hype machine again. I love my MacBook and iPhone as much as the next Apple fanboy but these stunts will get old real soon.
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canoecarrier
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:25 am

Quoting racko (Reply 10):
iPolice.

If this guy's story is indeed true I'd make sure I had a lawyer. Anyone showing up at your house and pretending to be the police should get jail time.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:20 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 13):
If this guy's story is indeed true I'd make sure I had a lawyer. Anyone showing up at your house and pretending to be the police should get jail time.

That claim is apparently false, according to newer reports. The actual police was indeed involved and nobody misrepresented themselves.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:20 pm

If what I am reading contains a smattering of truth there are SFPD officers and Apple employees.. perhaps even executives(is this why Steve quit?) that should be in prison.. at least be awaiting trial.

What sort of 2 bit , lynch mob justice system allows officers to

Quote:
"They just assisted Apple to the address."

and stand outside while those civilians conduct an illegal search and (potential) seizure operation.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
The actual police was indeed involved and nobody misrepresented themselves.


Not what I am reading but then the way I am reading it implies some criticism of the infallible deity APPLE
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:24 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 15):
Not what I am reading but then the way I am reading it implies some criticism of the infallible deity APPLE

Your snide and personally aggressive tone was entirely unprovoked.

All that seething resentment of a mere electronics manufacturer is really getting out of hand.
 
racko
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:48 pm

They fucking searched a home, impersonating police officers (if this was in the presence of actual police officers it's even worse), threatened a man and they're gonna get away with it.

I think it's frightening. Both the way Apple's security behaves, and the apparent willingness of institutions to help them.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:51 pm

Klaus,

Your perception of a snide and personally aggressive tone may perhaps be your reaction to my opinion that your, by my understanding of the events thus far, impression that Apple have done no wrong.

It appears to me that Apple, or their agents (and perhaps SFPD officers) have at least stretched the bounds of appropriate action if not acted illegally.

You are likely reading the same material I am yet you are convinced as always that what ever action Apple takes is correct and appropriate.

They are a "mere electronics manufacturer" yet over the years you more than anyone have tried to use this platfom to elevate them to almost mystical status.

I am no Apple hater, they make some excellent products, well designed , well made and perform well.
I just don't buy the " Jobs way or No Way " mentality.

[Edited 2011-09-03 05:52:39]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 18):
Your perception of a snide and personally aggressive tone may perhaps be your reaction to my opinion that your, by my understanding of the events thus far, impression that Apple have done no wrong.

The tone of your post was completely over the top and in no way warranted considering what I actually posted above.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 18):
You are likely reading the same material I am yet you are convinced as always that what ever action Apple takes is correct and appropriate.

I simply reserve final judgment until the state of information approaches some kind of reliability, while everybody else in here is all falling over themselves to immediately assume the absolute worst as incontrovertible fact even without any solid evidence.

The facts of the matter seem to be a little less simple than the first overhyped reports suggest:
Lost iPhone 5 Update: Police 'Assisted' Apple Investigators in Search of SF Man's Home - San Francisco News - The Snitch

According to this report the private investigators accompanied by police officers did not represent themselves as police. And whether the search as such met legal requirements or not remains to be seen as it depends on what exactly was said and done by whom at the time.

It is not even clear whether the private investigators were actually Apple employees or hired externally.

A few more facts would be much more helpful than all the premature outrage at the mere mentioning of the word "Apple".

Quoting stealthz (Reply 18):
They are a "mere electronics manufacturer" yet over the years you more than anyone have tried to use this platfom to elevate them to almost mystical status.

I have never done such a thing. I know that some people around here are trying to beat anyone over the head with that bizarre meme, but it is simply not true.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 18):
I am no Apple hater, they make some excellent products, well designed , well made and perform well.
I just don't buy the " Jobs way or No Way " mentality.

And who does that? (Link and quote, please.)
 
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fxramper
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:15 pm

Apple Investigators searched the home of the man in question with assistance from the local PD. I hope he already sold it to Gizmodo.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/...e.5.prototype/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 20):
Apple Investigators

WTH are "Apple Investigators?!" Didn't know such a thing existed! Anyway..do police officers generally accompany corporate security personnel to search private homes? According to this SF Weekly article the cops were plain clothed and "just stood around" while the Apple guys threatened the people inside the house and even questioned their immigration status and apparently all of them ID'd themselves as SFPD officers. Absolutely ridiculous.

This is pure PR BS nonsense. Why didn't Apple ask the FBI to come down? Those so called "Apple Investigators" should not have been allowed to rummage through somebody's home in search for an alleged "lost item" by the SFPD. And has any reporter seen the police report that was filed by Apple? No. How about the radio call? Where's the report?

And when did using the police as a tool for coercion by a private entity become legal? Or is it all ok because it is "Apple" and they're just "awesome and can't do anything wrong?"  

Reading some of the articles..its clear that any clues were sure as heck weren't in the computer that Apple searched, or the car or the home.
And if the signal was tracked using an IP address.. how did Apple get the ISP to deliver the IP address information, without a court order? This in itself is highly illegal.

Apple is not above the law. Time to make some "Fried Apples."
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:32 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 20):
Apple Investigators searched the home of the man in question with assistance from the local PD. I hope he already sold it to Gizmodo.

I see.

What you're implying is that "the man in question" is actually a thief and that you hope the thief will sell the stolen item.

Not liking a particular manufacturer is a valid choice, but cheering for a criminal (by your implication) still raises questions of its own.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
WTH are "Apple Investigators?!" Didn't know such a thing existed!

Could have been Apple security personnel or externally hired investigators. What's so difficult to understand there?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
Anyway..do police officers generally accompany corporate security personnel to search private homes? According to this SF Weekly article the cops were plain clothed and "just stood around" while the Apple guys threatened the people inside the house

Per the statement by the person who may be a thief and would thus have his own agenda, which you're completely ignoring here.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
and even questioned their immigration status and apparently all of them ID'd themselves as SFPD officers.

Well, at least as reported by the article I've linked to above, even the man in question admitted that the two investigators did not claim to be police.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
This is pure PR BS nonsense.

...or at least highly premature judgment on the basis of severely lacking evidence.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
And has any reporter seen the police report that was filed by Apple? No. How about the radio call? Where's the report?

These questions will obviously have to be addressed.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
And if the signal was tracked using an IP address.. how did Apple get the ISP to deliver the IP address information, without a court order? This in itself is highly illegal.

Unlikely. Every iOS device can be queried for its (GPS and/or WiFi) location by its owner (in this case Apple themselves) over the internet using the Find my iPhone function as I've explained above. It is highly likely that they used this function to pinpoint the location at the suspect's house.

The fact that it had been moved from the bar where it was last in the possession of its rightful user indicates that it wasn't just "found" but actually stolen (finding an item and not attempting to return it amounts to theft just as well as pilfering it directly).

When they arrived there, the device apparently had been silenced already by pulling its SIM card; They would have been able to re-query its location and to get it to ring audibly even if the silencer switch was engaged (also part of Find my iPhone) if it was still online, which it wasn't any more at that point, one has to presume.

If it had still been online, they would almost certainly have located it.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
Apple is not above the law.

No, of course not.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
Time to make some "Fried Apples."

See "premature judgment" above.
 
seb146
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:42 pm

*yawn* Been there, done that.... Just trying to create hype for the iPhone 5.0. It is a phone for Pete's sake! Not the wheel! How many phones these days can go online, play music and so forth? Why is this a big deal?
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:51 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
*yawn* Been there, done that.... Just trying to create hype for the iPhone 5.0. It is a phone for Pete's sake! Not the wheel! How many phones these days can go online, play music and so forth? Why is this a big deal?

That is almost certainly no planted publicity stunt, since it generates far more harm than potential benefit for Apple.

There's hardly any way the actual launch of the new iPhone will be missed by anyone anyway – but as this thread perfectly demonstrates again, Apple hunting for their stolen prototype (again!) feeds directly into some people's negative preconceived notions about Apple.

Any PR person who'd actually propose such a PR stunt would most likely be fired on the spot (and that might still be the least painful possibility).
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:14 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):

WTH are "Apple Investigators?!" Didn't know such a thing existed! Anyway..do police officers generally accompany corporate security personnel to search private homes

The questions I'd like answered: 1) were the "Apple investigators" armed? 2) what would have happened if the home owner tried to protect himself? 3) What is the police department's role here, if any? and 4) how, if at all, did the "apple investigators" identify themselves?

As someone who knows how airline security departments work they're normally full of ex-police officers that blur the line between ex-police officer and police officer.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
And when did using the police as a tool for coercion by a private entity become legal?

This whole affair should never have happened. Never should a corporate security entity show up at your house and pretend to have any authority to search your home.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
What you're implying is that "the man in question" is actually a thief and that you hope the thief will sell the stolen item.

Why is it easy for you to call someone who may have found a lost item at a bar a "thief"? But, it's completely fine for you to accept someone's home may have been illegally searched by a corporate security firm? If I was the ACLU I'd be salivating over the opportunity to defend this man.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):

Still haven't answered my question Klaus..

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
And when did using the police as a tool for coercion by a private entity become legal?

The fact remains that Apple, with the SFPD did not have a court order to walk into this guy's home and rummage through their stuff based on "suspicions". If Apple are so paranoid about protecting their technology..why the hell did they not lock it up somewhere?! What was this Apple engineer doing with a highly valuable and "priceless" iphone 5 prototype in a bar? I mean..there is ALWAYS a possibility it can be lost/stolen..heck it has even HAPPENED BEFORE!

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

This is most likely a PR stunt..and quite frankly its getting old.
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:46 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 25):
Why is it easy for you to call someone who may have found a lost item at a bar a "thief"?

I didn't. fxramper did:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 20):
I hope he already sold it to Gizmodo.

And that statement is somewhat troubling, to put it mildly.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 25):
But, it's completely fine for you to accept someone's home may have been illegally searched by a corporate security firm?

Where have I said such a thing? we don't actually know what the circumstances were exactly. And details can matter there.

If the police asked whether the detectives accompanying them could check for the stolen iPhone and the suspect assented to that without coercion, I don't see anything unlawful about it (although I'm obviously not a lawyer).

What I'm getting at is that the exact circumstances matter, and as heartwarming as the blind trust in the suspect from all the posters so far is, it may be misplaced. He may be completely innocent, but then again, he (or someone in his family) might be a thief after all. Both possibilities are on the table, and the stolen device apparently reported its location in the suspect's house, which is at least one piece of evidence (even though the reported location may of course have been off the true position).

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 26):
Still haven't answered my question Klaus..

Which one? I've dealt with quite a bunch above.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 26):
If Apple are so paranoid about protecting their technology..why the hell did they not lock it up somewhere?! What was this Apple engineer doing with a highly valuable and "priceless" iphone 5 prototype in a bar?

It's called field test and it's how you proactively prevent people from tarring and feathering you for crappy connection quality in a communication device. And unfortunately there is no other way than to actually take it out to places where people might conceivably use the production devices later on to find out whether it may have trouble dealing with specific circumstances like signal attenuation within a building or a crowded place with lots of people having lots of other cellphones with them around you. Which makes a busy bar a pretty important place to conduct such tests, as funny as it may seem at first glance.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 26):
This is most likely a PR stunt..

That it is almost certainly not.

This would be the most harebrained PR stunt of all times.

On the other hand, it is effectively known that Apple engineers will be field-testing the new iPhone model(s) at this point in time, so there are quite a bunch of people who could conceivably attempt to identify plausible hangouts and to try getting their hands on a prototype. It could also just have been lost, but the moment the finder decides not to contact the rightful owner, he turns himself into a thief. Which we know all too well since this is how it played out the last time as well.
 
seb146
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:23 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
It's called field test and it's how you proactively prevent people from tarring and feathering you for crappy connection quality in a communication device.

There are field tests and no doubt they are done. I have no problem with that and am grateful companies do this.

However, to take a prototype to a bar and "lose" it is just stupid. Prototypes of phones are easier tested during peak times like Friday afternoon or Monday morning. Not at a bar. This is yet another stunt and, quite frankly, getting old.

In one interview, a man said some police looking people rummaged through his apartment. Now, if it truly were SFPD or any legitimate law enforcement agency (even BART) they would have to show a search warrent and go through the proper channels. However, if it were private secruity for Apple, they can do whatever they please all the while looking like official police.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:00 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
Which one? I've dealt with quite a bunch above.

This one:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 21):
And when did using the police as a tool for coercion by a private entity become legal?
Quoting seb146 (Reply 28):
Now, if it truly were SFPD or any legitimate law enforcement agency (even BART) they would have to show a search warrent and go through the proper channels

Exactly. And the fact that the guy let them into the house doesn't count...the simple truth is..these guys showed up at this person's house and went through his stuff..without any warrant or court order, based on "suspicions". This is illegal and I hope someone at the SFPD and Apple fries for this. Otherwise where will it stop?
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 28):
However, to take a prototype to a bar and "lose" it is just stupid. Prototypes of phones are easier tested during peak times like Friday afternoon or Monday morning. Not at a bar.

A bar poses its own challenges for a mobile phone, both regarding audio quality and RF signal quality (RF noise rejection, bandwidth management, RF dynamic range in a noisy environmentand so forth). The challenges you mobile phone needs to address are huge – most people have no idea how complex and difficult the processes actually are that make a cellphone a (mostly!) reliably communication device. You cannot reliably emulate this kind of environment – that's why field tests are necessary. At least as long as people keep using the actual phones in this kind of environment.

And at least I presume that even Apple field test engineers got to eat every now and then, on top of that.
 
Quoting seb146 (Reply 28):
This is yet another stunt

What potential benefit could such a stunt possibly have? The downsides are substantial and are already unfolding even now, but where's any kind of upside for Apple?

No, it's almost certainly not a PR stunt.

It is public knowledge that Apple is field-testing the new iPhone model(s) in the bay area at this time. If you were a pickpocket, wouldn't you be tempted to make a quick buck from a potentially valuable item?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 29):
Exactly. And the fact that the guy let them into the house doesn't count...the simple truth is..these guys showed up at this person's house and went through his stuff..without any warrant or court order, based on "suspicions". This is illegal and I hope someone at the SFPD and Apple fries for this.

I've already addressed that above: The crucial issue is whether any actual coercion was taking place. A suspect can perfectly well invite any private investigator to look around his home if he so decides. And he can refuse to do so when there is police without a warrant (as apparently in this case). But it seems he didn't refuse to let them in. So the actual details of how this happened are relevant here, and the outrage above is mostly pointless unless these details are actually made public (if they ever are).

[Edited 2011-09-04 03:42:57]
 
ltbewr
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:13 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 29):Exactly. And the fact that the guy let them into the house doesn't count...the simple truth is..these guys showed up at this person's house and went through his stuff..without any warrant or court order, based on "suspicions". This is illegal and I hope someone at the SFPD and Apple fries for this.I've already addressed that above: The crucial issue is whether any actual coercion was taking place. A suspect can perfectly well invite any private investigator to look around his home if he so decides. And he can refuse to do so when there is police without a warrant (as apparently in this case). But it seems he didn't refuse to let them in. So the actual details of how this happened are relevant here, and the outrage above is mostly pointless unless these details are actually made public (if they ever are).

The loss of these prototypes can cost Apple maybe $100's of millions if they end up in the hands of competitors, so losing them is very serious business and sometimes draconian policies can be in place. These prototype phones are owned by Apple, they are their property, not that of the Apple employees. It is possible that anyone who works for Apple in such positions signs extensive confidentiality agreements that may include that if such a prototype device is assigned to you and you claim it to be stolen or lost, you waive your 5th Amendment rights of privacy and you must allow Apple 'security' employees to search you home or car without a court issued warrant. That may explain why the police are there, as well as if the device is found, the person can be arrested for having 'stolen property' and other charges. It is also possible these agreements makes it clear that you can be immediately fired for such a loss as well as face criminal and civil liability for allow the phone to get lost.

I have worked for over 30 years as a legal assistant in law firms and a government agency and have had to sign very strict confidentiality agreements as a general rule as well as with specific clients and cases, although it may not have included the search of a home or car except with a warrant. They did include clauses that if I disclosed confidential information, that I could face criminal and civil penalties.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:21 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 31):
It is possible that anyone who works for Apple in such positions signs extensive confidentiality agreements that may include that if such a prototype device is assigned to you and you claim it to be stolen or lost, you waive your 5th Amendment rights of privacy and you must allow Apple 'security' employees to search you home or car without a court issued warrant. That may explain why the police are there

Quite plausibly, but in this case it wasn't the home of the Apple employee but the home of another unrelated man in whose home the iPhone had reported its location, so there won't be such a waiver in place.

It is, of course, also possible that the Apple engineer simply sold the prototype to the highest bidder (and it is quite possible such bids might have been substantial), but the risk to be found out and prosecuted would be significant.

Just losing a prototype (or having it stolen) will be bad enough for the guy's reputation. Losing his job over this is perfectly possible as well.

[Edited 2011-09-04 05:22:22]
 
seb146
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:16 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
It is public knowledge that Apple is field-testing the new iPhone model(s) in the bay area at this time. If you were a pickpocket, wouldn't you be tempted to make a quick buck from a potentially valuable item?

I can not tell the difference between the iPhone 2 and the iPhone 4. To many pickpockets, an iPhone is an iPhone. *IF* it were stolen, the theif most likely pawned it for cash.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
What potential benefit could such a stunt possibly have? The downsides are substantial and are already unfolding even now, but where's any kind of upside for Apple?

To create buzz about the latest and greatest. And why not? Look how much talk this story is generating. All because of iPhone. It gets people thinking about their product.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Okie
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 31):
The loss of these prototypes can cost Apple maybe $100's of millions if they end up in the hands of competitors, so losing them is very serious business and sometimes draconian policies can be in place


It is your misconception that the person's residence involved here was bound by such an agreement and is protected by the 4th Amendment for illegal search and seizure.
The most troubling part is that a company would misrepresent itself as the police, get a search warrant, if they did, which would require judicial intervention and apparently intentionally mislead the judge, if they bothered getting a warrant, since the article was not found and Apple claiming it was there by their own locating device.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):

To create buzz about the latest and greatest. And why not? Look how much talk this story is generating. All because of iPhone. It gets people thinking about their product.


Right, generate about the most amount of negative publicity you could possibly could. I would not think so.
It also indicates that their locating feature does not work if Apple says the phone was at that location and it was not, that is also very poor publicity.
So now what, the Apple Gestapo going to start busting down doors up and down the streets, searching homes until they find something that Apple thinks is theirs.


Okie
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:27 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):
I can not tell the difference between the iPhone 2 and the iPhone 4. To many pickpockets, an iPhone is an iPhone. *IF* it were stolen, the theif most likely pawned it for cash.

Of course. It being a prototype may just have racked up the price enormously.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):
To create buzz about the latest and greatest. And why not? Look how much talk this story is generating.

And practically all of it damaging to Apple. That theory just doesn't fly.

Quoting okie (Reply 34):
The most troubling part is that a company would misrepresent itself as the police, get a search warrant, if they did, which would require judicial intervention and apparently intentionally mislead the judge, if they bothered getting a warrant, since the article was not found and Apple claiming it was there by their own locating device.

Lots of conjecture there, little actual information. I would be very cautious about passing judgment on that flimsy basis.

Quoting okie (Reply 34):
It also indicates that their locating feature does not work if Apple says the phone was at that location and it was not, that is also very poor publicity.

Very simple explanation: They obviously checked the device's location and then they went to the house.

From the circumstantial information that's circulating so far, it is quite obvious that the device had already been silenced when they arrived at the reported location. If the device had still been online at this point and reported a different location, they would not have bothered knocking at the door (the location feature can be checked from another iPhone as well).

Quoting okie (Reply 34):
So now what, the Apple Gestapo going to start busting down doors up and down the streets, searching homes until they find something that Apple thinks is theirs.

Wow. Great. You've just godwinned yourself out of this thread. Great job.  
 
Okie
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:18 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
Wow. Great. You've just godwinned yourself out of this thread. Great job.


I give up what do you call it when Apple does not even file a police report of missing phone and then Apple investigators show up to search your home. From linked article.
It appears that Apple is the one shooting themselves in the foot, not Okie, just reporting the actions of Apple.
If you can link an article that states otherwise then I would be glad to take a look.

Okie
 
aloges
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:36 am

Don't you people ever get bored?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:58 am

Quoting okie (Reply 36):
I give up what do you call it when Apple does not even file a police report of missing phone and then Apple investigators show up to search your home.

Lots of premature judgment on the basis of conjecture laced with entrenched prejudices instead of actual information, even taking the claims of a suspected criminal at face value without a single critical thought – do you really think that's how such issues should be treated?
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:48 am

It makes no difference if multi-billion dollar apple can't look after their possessions or not, they can just make another one.

Sure charge the guy with theft if you can find the phone, but who honestly cares - it's just a phone, just a waste of police/court time. Provided he hasn't sold it to Samsung or similar then it's just gonna be theft not industrial espionage.

I can't believe how passionately people are fighting over this. It's a non-event.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:15 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 39):
It makes no difference if multi-billion dollar apple can't look after their possessions or not, they can just make another one.

The cost of the prototype itself is negligible for Apple. The damage of having it in competitors' or media hands before the official launch can be very substantial, particularly given that competitors generally position their own products relative to the respective iPhone, if they don't simply copy it outright.
 
Okie
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:23 pm

Well a few things we do know now
The Cava 22 tequila bar is the place to go if you are looking for the latest technology phone to either be left behind or unattended.
Whoever has the phone knows they have the latest and greatest whether they did or not beforehand. Now making a few dollar phone worth thousands for a few days anyway.
Some engineer at Apple is in deep doo doo.
Apple did not handle the publicity very well.

Okie
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:02 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 40):
he damage of having it in competitors' or media hands before the official launch can be very substantial, particularly given that competitors generally position their own products relative to the respective iPhone, if they don't simply copy it outright.

that is not anyone else's fault except apple's. They should have kept a closer eye on their belongings. the world is full of thieves and they've already been burned like this before - time to rethink their testing methods in public places I think.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:15 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
that is not anyone else's fault except apple's. They should have kept a closer eye on their belongings.

Well, that's the general view the thieves tend to have...!   

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
time to rethink their testing methods in public places I think.

Possibly, in the details. But field tests will still remain necessary for a mobile phone.
 
bill142
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:05 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
time to rethink their testing methods in public places I think.

Maybe Apple should put a HP and WebOS sticker on the back of the prototypes in future, because nobody would want that!
 
Acheron
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting bill142 (Reply 44):
Maybe Apple should put a HP and WebOS sticker on the back of the prototypes in future, because nobody would want that!

That won't be necesary, without Steve, just wait a couple of years until Apple is run to the ground again and people realize iPhones are nothing exceptional and quite overpriced.  
 
D L X
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Klaus,

do you find it troubling that Apple personnel appeared at this man's home flanked by San Francisco police officers and searched his house?
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:12 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 46):
do you find it troubling that Apple personnel appeared at this man's home flanked by San Francisco police officers and searched his house?

Not if they had direct evidence for the stolen device being at the place (such as a location query providing those GPS coordinates), if they did not misrepresent themselves and if the suspect let them enter without undue coercion.

It is obvious that private security personnel cannot just kick in any random door and ransack the place at will. But that does not seem to have happened there, even though some reporters have obviously played to some people's pre-existing prejudices there.

One question is always whether you're more interested in getting your expectations confirmed whatever it takes or if you're ready to find the truth lacking in satisfaction after all, as it usually is.
 
mham001
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:00 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Well, at least as reported by the article I've linked to above, even the man in question admitted that the two investigators did not claim to be police.

Noted. Notice what he did not say? That they identified themselves as Apple employees.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 28):
In one interview, a man said some police looking people rummaged through his apartment. Now, if it truly were SFPD or any legitimate law enforcement agency (even BART) they would have to show a search warrent and go through the proper channels. However, if it were private secruity for Apple, they can do whatever they please all the while looking like official police.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 31):
The loss of these prototypes can cost Apple maybe $100's of millions if they end up in the hands of competitors,

Hype. It's soon released and then all they have to do then is buy one. This publicity will sell more phones than any losses from an early teardown by a competitor. Any publicity is good publicity. The masses are not hearing about an illegal search, they are hearing that a new *gasp* iphone is almost ready for release. The illegal search will be nothing more than a local SFPD scandal played only to the locals and some tech followers.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
Lots of conjecture there, little actual information. I would be very cautious about passing judgment on that flimsy basis.

And yet you were the first one here to use the "thief" word against that man, even though there has been NO evidence of such presented. NONE. Klaus, you are so full of it.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Loses Another IPhone Prototype.

Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 48):
Notice what he did not say? That they identified themselves as Apple employees.

The suspect did indeed not say that, according to the report. So?
Still too little reliable information to actually reconstruct the events with any reliability.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 48):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
Lots of conjecture there, little actual information. I would be very cautious about passing judgment on that flimsy basis.

And yet you were the first one here to use the "thief" word against that man, even though there has been NO evidence of such presented. NONE. Klaus, you are so full of it.

Thank you for the unkind insult. You cannot have actually read that post of mine, however, which I quote (with my added emphasis):

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Quoting fxramper (Reply 20):
Apple Investigators searched the home of the man in question with assistance from the local PD. I hope he already sold it to Gizmodo.

I see.

What you're implying is that "the man in question" is actually a thief and that you hope the thief will sell the stolen item.

And:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Per the statement by the person who may be a thief and would thus have his own agenda, which you're completely ignoring here.

I would appreciate it if you were slightly more selective about your judgment, particularly more thorough in your reading before passing any.

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