User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:11 am

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/category/jobs/


Today while watching Fareed Zackaria GPS, and as he was talking to Jeffrey Immelt about jobs, Immelt said this. If the US worker was willing to work for 15 dollars per hour, there would be more jobs returning to, or staying in the US. The total pay for the year, based on a 40 hour week, 50 weeks, at that hourly rate, one would earn 31K per year. He did not mention benefits. Is there anyone one out there who would want to work for that kind of money? Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford to support a family on that kind of money? Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford healthcare on 31k per year, a car, a vacation, cloths, save money for their retirement? This is the thinking of a job Czar. I was disappointed in Fareed Zackaria, he let Immelt skate, as usual.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:34 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone one out there who would want to work for that kind of money?

$31,000 per year? Where the hell do I sign up?! That would be a...significant...pay raise for me. My supervisor doesn't even make that.

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford to support a family on that kind of money?

It might work, depending upon the amount of debt one is in. I know people who do it on less. It's tough, but doable.

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford healthcare on 31k per year, a car, a vacation, cloths, save money for their retirement?

It's possible, but it would take a lot of sacrifice. I do that now (sans vacation and retirement), but I'm single and have quite a bit of debt.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:42 am

As someone who risks his life and those of others daily at work for a measly-not-guaranteed-rarely-a-40hr-a-week-work-week for a $15-an-hour-job-that-doesn't-even-get-me-$20k-a-year-AND-with-six-digits-in-student-loans, I find his statements insulting.
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:46 am

I remember when that used to be a good wage and it wasn't that long ago.

While I like working overseas, I would much rather be back in the US, but there are just no jobs, especially for a 50 yr old welder!

F
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:56 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 1):
Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):Is there anyone one out there who would want to work for that kind of money?
$31,000 per year? Where the hell do I sign up?! That would be a...significant...pay raise for me. My supervisor doesn't even make that.

In 1957, my first job as a machinist paid 60 dollars per week. straight time. That equaled 3120 dollars per year, One week of paid vacation. That was 54 years ago. I was single, right out of school. You are telling me that you earn less than ten times my starting pay 54 years ago? A CEO now earns about 400 times the average worker, and yours does not even equal 10 times my pay 54 years ago? $!5 per hour, as advocated by Immelt, is about 10 times what I started at 54 years ago, at a union shop. Wait, as they try to kill off unionism, it will only get worse. Tragic condiditions for the worker, lovely for the CEO. You have my sympathy. Your reward will come in Heaven, certainly not in the US.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:08 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
As someone who risks his life and those of others daily at work for a measly-not-guaranteed-rarely-a-40hr-a-week-work-week for a $15-an-hour-job-that-doesn't-even-get-me-$20k-a-year-AND-with-six-digits-in-student-loans, I find his statements insulting.

I find them enraging.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 3):
I remember when that used to be a good wage and it wasn't that long ago.



A long time ago, in a universe far away.




While I like working overseas, I would much rather be back in the US, but there are just no jobs, especially for a 50 yr old welder!

Something is not quite right, are we whipped dogs, serfs once again? It would seems so. We have been had, by Republican's and Democrats, sold out, betrayed for a buck. Many on here, think this is good, just ask them.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20460
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:18 am

$15/hr sounds rather fair.

Considering the bulk of the economy does not require anything more than a high-school education.

Anyhow, $31,000/yr is higher than the median personal income in the US ($27,041) per the Census Bureau.
It would be about a nice 14.6% raise matter of fact.
Also the average US household income is barely $50,000 so if two people worked and could earn $15/hr they would be cruising along more than 20% higher than the average today.

Sounds like a wonderful outcome many Americans.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:24 am

My pay isn't what it is because the company's CEO is greedy. I work in security and aside from a few select segments, it isn't a high paying job. My pay is based on what the client is willing to pay. Security guards are a dime a dozen and a company isn't going to pay top dollar for a labor force that can be replaced quickly. Simple supply and demand.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 7):
My pay isn't what it is because the company's CEO is greedy. I work in security and aside from a few select segments, it isn't a high paying job. My pay is based on what the client is willing to pay. Security guards are a dime a dozen and a company isn't going to pay top dollar for a labor force that can be replaced quickly. Simple supply and demand.

Make no mistake, I was not denigrating you, or your job. I was pointing out the mounting inequity of pay in the US. A Security Guard is in need of a living wage, as is a CEO.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11170
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:38 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone one out there who would want to work for that kind of money?

You should ask everybody standing in unemployment lines. And a couple million Mexicans.

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford to support a family on that kind of money?

Not likely with one income. People should save or wait until they are making more money before they do such things. You save to go on vacation or buy a house and you can save to have children too.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 5):
Something is not quite right, are we whipped dogs, serfs once again?

If you are uneducated and lack marketable skills, perhaps.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
In 1957, my first job as a machinist paid 60 dollars per week. straight time. That equaled 3120 dollars per year, One week of paid vacation. That was 54 years ago. I was single, right out of school. You are telling me that you earn less than ten times my starting pay 54 years ago?

Actually that's not so far out of line with what Immelt is proposing:
http://www.measuringworth.com/uscomp...1957&amount=3120&year_result=2010#
By the way, the best measure for this case is the consumer bundle, which only runs through 2009. The value of your 1954 wage in 2009? A whopping, comfortably middle class, buy a house with a picket fence, own a nice car, and have kids in the best schools while saving for retirement income of....$30,200!

But you needn't let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
mham001
Posts: 4346
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:46 am

Welcome to the global economy.

BTW, whether or not $30k/yr is enough to live on in the US is entirely dependent on where you live. Many do just fine on that. I could even do it in San Jose but I own my house. It may also require giving up some of the frivolous things we have become accustomed to, such as $80 cell phone plans or $100 cable bills.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:14 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
You should ask everybody standing in unemployment lines. And a couple million Mexicans

Ho hum.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
By the way, the best measure for this case is the consumer bundle, which only runs through 2009. The value of your 1954 wage in 2009? A whopping, comfortably middle class, buy a house with a picket fence, own a nice car, and have kids in the best schools while saving for retirement income of....$30,200!

Enlighten me. 3k in "54", now equals 30K today? Roughly 10X my 54 pay? Using the Production worker scale?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11170
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:21 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
Enlighten me. 3k in "54", now equals 30K today? Roughly 10X my 54 pay? Using the Production worker scale?

The website I linked uses various metrics to measure inflation and translate the value of a given amount of money across a period of time. The consumer bundle is a particular measure that translates how a person might spend their money and how a wage compares to a different era, and by that metric, $3120 in 1957 is worth $30,200 in 2009. Other metrics like the unskilled wage and production worker compensation are not too far off from that. So that princely sum you were making in 1957 wasn't so princely after all.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:24 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 10):
Welcome to the global economy.

BTW, whether or not $30k/yr is enough to live on in the US is entirely dependent on where you live. Many do just fine on that. I could even do it in San Jose but I own my house. It may also require giving up some of the frivolous things we have become accustomed to, such as $80 cell phone plans or $100 cable bills.

My point exactly, that to me is what we have wrought with the global economy. Not us of course, but the movers and shakers and job creators, who have brought us to this point, where 30K is supposed to be something desirable as a wage. I alone make more than that in retirement, alone, not with my wife's retirement. I do not say this to brag, I say this to show where you younger folks are heading with the global economy. Down the tube. I was a blue collar worker, union.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
The website I linked uses various metrics to measure inflation and translate the value of a given amount of money across a period of time. The consumer bundle is a particular measure that translates how a person might spend their money and how a wage compares to a different era, and by that metric, $3120 in 1957 is worth $30,200 in 2009. Other metrics like the unskilled wage and production worker compensation are not too far off from that. So that princely sum you were making in 1957 wasn't so princely after all.

I would suggest that you reread my words. If I used or implied that 60 bucks a week was a Princely Sum in 1954, I would have to be on drugs. It was my first fulltime wage, and job. I was an apprentice in the machine industry, not a Master Tool maker. I stayed there for two years, and moved on to another field of work. You obviously read my words incorrectly. I was making a point about the growing unfairness of compensation between the have's( obviously you are one of those) and the have nots, the group with which I identify. Now back to 30K a year, which Immelt thinks will lead us back to glory in the US. It sucks. I made much, much more many years ago. Union. We are going backwards, which seems to be just fine to many on here. Not to me.

[Edited 2011-09-18 20:44:14]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:43 am

The CEO of General Electric and President's Obama's current "jobs czar" Jeffrey Immelt says that Americans should get used to working for $15 per hour - because there's millions of people around the world that will work for alot less than that amount.

Try saving for retirement and your kids education on $31,000 per year, Mr. Job Czar!! Well, you Mr. Immelt make over 500 times what the average American worker makes and your firm and your decisions are responsible for sending hundreds of thousands of American manufacturing jobs to Mexico and Asia. What a crock of crap!   

Immelt has no freakin' business lecturing American workers on their value to this nation when his company (GE) earned $5B profit with no corporate taxes. My head is going to explode!  

[Edited 2011-09-18 20:45:04]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Flighty
Posts: 7857
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:45 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford to support a family on that kind of money?

That's not how you decide these things ideally. First, one makes a stable income. Then, have a family if you can arrange your household to support that. Or if not, don't have kids. Or if you can't feed said kids, there are always food stamps.

Nobody said a job is handed to us, no matter what our grades in school, our skills, criminal record etc. I feel bad for the jobless. But there are ways out. Most jobless people would be glad to work for 15 dollars an hour, which is a pretty good wage compared to nothing. It's also an option to move to another place like North Dakota or other places with hot economies, like India. Certainly Jeff Immelt employs a lot of people. Last thing I will say is, GE is one of those Cadillac employers where everybody including labor makes around $100,000 and up. He is reflecting on the fact that GE can't compete globally like that, necessarily.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:49 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 15):
The CEO of General Electric and President's Obama's current "jobs czar" Jeffrey Immelt says that Americans should get used to working for $15 per hour - because there's millions of people around the world that will work for alot less than that amount.

Try saving for retirement and your kids education on $31,000 per year, Mr. Job Czar!! Well, you Mr. Immelt make over 500 times what the average American worker makes and your firm and your decisions are responsible for sending hundreds of thousands of American manufacturing jobs to Mexico and Asia. What a chock of crap!

Immelt has no freakin' business lecturing American workers on their value to this nation when his company (GE) earned $5B profit with no corporate taxes. My head is going to explode!

Amen brother, I could not have said it better. It is good to see someone is not accepting of the shit that is fed to us 24 hours a day, like mushrooms. Fed shit, and kept in the dark, and that policy has so many advocates on here.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7857
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:55 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 2):
I find his statements insulting.

You might rather find GE's labor union positions insulting!

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 15):
Try saving for retirement and your kids education on $31,000 per year, Mr. Job Czar!!

Again, he doesn't have to, because he demonstrated he's very very skilled at running businesses... so he lives in the same world you and I do. He worked hard to get his job at GE and rise to the top. Wasn't handed to him by daddy.

If people want a six-figure lifestyle, there are ways to get there... it's not super easy... Americans seem to think it's either six fiigures or welfare/starving, like WarR1 for example...

To them I would say, running a household is a skill. Some people need $200k to run a household. Others need only $60k. $30k is not easy; that's why most wives have a full time job. If people want more income, there is always becoming an author, a board certified plastic surgeon, starting a computer company in your garage, etc.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:56 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
Nobody said a job is handed to us, no matter what our grades in school, our skills, criminal record etc. I feel bad for the jobless. But there are ways out. Most jobless people would be glad to work for 15 dollars an hour, which is a pretty good wage compared to nothing. It's also an option to move to another place like North Dakota or other places with hot economies, like India. Certainly Jeff Immelt employs a lot of people. Last thing I will say is, GE is one of those Cadillac employers where everybody including labor makes around $100,000 and up. He is reflecting on the fact that GE can't compete globally like that, necessarily.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/13/news...nomy/poverty_rate_income/index.htm



My answer, to the bullshit excuses of American corporations and what they have visited on us.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7857
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:03 am

WarR1... is your solution to eliminate corporations... or what. Then where are jobs? Immelt is just saying point blank it makes no sense to pay semi-skilled workers $50/hr while millions of other people are jobless. At $15/hr way more families would have a job and be off the poverty rolls
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
Again, he doesn't have to, because he demonstrated he's very very skilled at running businesses... so he lives in the same world you and I do. He worked hard to get his job at GE and rise to the top. Wasn't handed to him by daddy.
http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...e_ceo_jeffrey_immelt_saw_comp.html



He must not be a good budget man, to need this much to run his houshold. Others do it on 30k, 60k. He needs 15 million.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:10 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 1):
$31,000 per year? Where the hell do I sign up?! That would be a...significant...pay raise for me. My supervisor doesn't even make that.

I'm right there with ya! I barely make 20 "G"s here. I have been working as a caregiver the last 2.5 years. I do have health and life insurance benefits, but that's about it. I guess I should prepare for another 2-some years where I'm at now. Apparently I'm still not good enough in my field, which is geography and planning. Even with a M.A. and two internships I guess all I am worth to anyone is less than that of sand...

Considering there are 200 people like me out there applying to the same jobs... When I do have an interview, for some reason I'm not outselling anyone else. There's always someone "better fit" for the job than me...

So yeah, $31k a year, sign me up. THAT would be a quantum leap up from where I'm at now...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20460
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:14 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
I say this to show where you younger folks are heading with the global economy. Down the tube. I was a blue collar worker, union.

And maybe this is the problem with where we are today.

As Americans we have priced ourselves out of work in too many industries.

Instead of taking that $15/hr wage we reached for the moon and demanded too much with the end result being simply not supportable when others can do the same job at a fraction of the pay.

America would not be outsourcing and fighting in the global economy is things like labor at home were at reasonable competitive rates.

At the end of the day, we only have ourselves to blame, not the China-man, Indian or Guatemalan that happily do the work for a price we refuse to.

I'm sorry, but the economy is like a pyramid, we cant all be at the top enjoying riches. There needs to be masses at the base to providing the physical work and services, and market dynamics, not union contracts need to decide what such work is truly worth in society.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:17 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 20):
WarR1... is your solution to eliminate corporations... or what. Then where are jobs? Immelt is just saying point blank it makes no sense to pay semi-skilled workers $50/hr while millions of other people are jobless. At $15/hr way more families would have a job and be off the poverty rolls

I am sure that is his main concern, yessiree. Is that what he was thinking when he just sent more work over to China. X Ray work , was it? It must be those greedy unions. Surely you are not that naive to believe this bull, they hand out? I remember that fine old GE guy Jack was it. I wonder if he is struggling to maintain his lifestyle, like we are?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
san747
Posts: 4347
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:18 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):

To them I would say, running a household is a skill. Some people need $200k to run a household. Others need only $60k. $30k is not easy; that's why most wives have a full time job. If people want more income, there is always becoming an author, a board certified plastic surgeon, starting a computer company in your garage, etc.

The first part of this is true- some households need more money than others to meet their needs, absolutely. The 2nd part is a little strange because in the paragraph prior, you note:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):

If people want a six-figure lifestyle, there are ways to get there... it's not super easy...

...but then you list three professions that take years of training (surgeon) or relentless perseverance with no guarantee of success (author/starting a company) in a tone that sounds like you're saying anyone who needs some extra cash can do them.

I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but there are better examples of things people can do to get additional household income.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
zhiao
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:52 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford to support a family on that kind of money? Is there anyone out there who thinks they could afford healthcare on 31k per year, a car, a vacation, cloths, save money for their retirement?

While below avg, I say yes. Presumably, the healthcare benefit is already covered, as this is GE we are speaking about.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
America would not be outsourcing and fighting in the global economy is things like labor at home were at reasonable competitive rates.

We would not be for sure, our Corporations handed it all away for cheap labor, nothing else. We were the leaders in outsourcing our countries wealth, to kill unions, to enrich the already rich, to make them richer. Of course, it was all done for the stockholders.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
At the end of the day, we only have ourselves to blame, not the China-man, Indian or Guatemalan that happily do the work for a price we refuse to.

We have our corporations to blame, not the workers, anywhere.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
zhiao
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:52 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:24 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Anyhow, $31,000/yr is higher than the median personal income in the US ($27,041) per the Census Bureau.

Personal Income includes people who do not work at all, and thus misleading. Medain full time year round wages per Census is actually $43000.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 27):
We have our corporations to blame, not the workers, anywhere.

Corporations and politicians of BOTH political parties.
Bring back the Concorde
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting zhiao (Reply 26):

While below avg, I say yes. Presumably, the healthcare benefit is already covered, as this is GE we are speaking about.

Immelt advocates this 30K for many millions of workers, many millions now do not have paid healthcare. The Republican's want to kill healthcare for the many. With the Republican plan, you would pay for it out of pocket, unless you are very lucky with your job. With the union contracts disappearing fast, 30 K is not a deep pocket to draw from.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Corporations and politicians of BOTH political parties.

Absolutely, thanks for pointing that out.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20460
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:34 am

We will never see eye to eye, however the reason companies have gone overseas is not because of some nastly ploy, or even stockholders.

Its due ---- us, you & me -- the consumers.

When company A makes widget for $20, and company B can make and sell the some one for $12, guess which one the consumer buys?

This being an airline forum, we have seen repeatedly where even a $1 price difference can shift consumer decisions.

Hence it paramount companies produce their widgets at the lowest possible cost to compete. Otherwise they die, and there is no business, and no employees to work there.

With much of American labor having priced ourselves out of the market and not allowing companies to offer their products at competitive rates, business has been forced to look overseas and do things like maximize use of technology to further reduce labor.

So until we as workers become 'humble' enough and realize we cant all be sitting near the top of the pyramid (esp those lacking suitable education), nothing will change.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
zhiao
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:52 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:34 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 15):
Try saving for retirement and your kids education on $31,000 per year, Mr. Job Czar!!

Can be done, especially if the compensation outside the $30k wage already includes employer contributions to retirement plans. Also, the notion of saving for education is rediculous for modest income families; let them pay for it. The net cost of instate public college tuition is about $2500/yr. Everything else like dorms and living costs are pure unecessary perks. You can't save for $2500 a yr ($10,000 ttl)? Over 18 years that's only $550 a year!
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:50 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):
So until we as workers become 'humble' enough and realize we cant all be sitting near the top of the pyramid (esp those lacking suitable education), nothing will change.

My, my, eat humble pie, now that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, that humble pie. Is that what the US is noted for, eating humble pie? I have never read such disturbing words personally as that. We must become humble. The serfs of old were humble, the slaves of the old south were humble. We now in the US of A must be humble to work for a living. Tell that to the Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force who defend us, die for us, and get maimed for us, that they must learn to be humble to find work when they are through serving. Disturbing to say the least.  Wow!
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
san747
Posts: 4347
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:11 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):

So until we as workers become 'humble' enough and realize we cant all be sitting near the top of the pyramid (esp those lacking suitable education), nothing will change.

The reason no one is humble is because in this culture, we are constantly fed this myth that if we work hard and struggle, we can become rich, which is quite disingenuous in my opinion. Hard work and struggle are important, certainly, but are not guarantees of upward social mobility. The fact is, the vast majority of people who bust their ass their whole lives are not going to achieve lives of opulence, and we need to stop telling people that. I think we as a society would be a lot happier if we didn't place unachievable expectations on ourselves and shame ourselves into thinking we're failures when we don't actually achieve them.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20460
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:23 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 34):
Disturbing to say the least.

Truth hurts.... Immelt is only relaying reality.

Either we accept it, or one goes on living with blinders failing to see the world has forever evolved and this is no longer Mayberry circa 1952.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BMI727
Posts: 11170
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:18 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14):
I was making a point about the growing unfairness of compensation between the have's( obviously you are one of those)

You say that I'm the elitist but I'm not the one talking about how everyone is entitled to a job that pays a comfortable middle class wage even if the work and economics don't justify it.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 20):
Immelt is just saying point blank it makes no sense to pay semi-skilled workers $50/hr while millions of other people are jobless. At $15/hr way more families would have a job and be off the poverty rolls

  

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
As Americans we have priced ourselves out of work in too many industries.

That's precisely what happened. Workers can make whatever demands they want, but companies can always turn it down.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 27):
Of course, it was all done for the stockholders.

Do you know who the stockholders are?

It must be a bunch of rich people and their offshore, tax dodging hedge funds. And all those private equity thugs buying companies and parting them out like an old car, in such a way that the workers are always discarded. The shareholders are Wall Street bandits who toss away companies like an empty cup of coffee.

Or it could be who the shareholders really are. Shareholders are endowments and charitable trusts. Shareholders are employees and retirees investing in their employers. Shareholders are our family, friends, neighbors, and ourselves saving for our retirements and maybe trying to make a few bucks on the side. That's who the shareholders really are.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 34):
We must become humble.

Yeah, humble, as in not entitled. The whole hard work and innovation thing. You know, all that stuff that made America what it is. Don't worry. Some of us who aren't too preoccupied sitting on our stoops complaining about kids these days and how everything has gone downhill still remember.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3402
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:13 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 15):

The CEO of General Electric and President's Obama's current "jobs czar" Jeffrey Immelt says that Americans should get used to working for $15 per hour - because there's millions of people around the world that will work for alot less than that amount.

If that $15 an hour is deemed a living wage, the minimum wage in Australia is about this because you can live off it and its doing just fine.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
America would not be outsourcing and fighting in the global economy is things like labor at home were at reasonable competitive rates.

If you paid an American worker what a corporation pays a Chinese worker the American worker would make more money off welfare I'm betting (not because they are essentially lazy but they earn more money that way).

Also the costs of living are too high in the US compared to Asia and one of the biggest issues is that the cost of living has skyrocketed and middle class wages have been basically stagnant for the past 30 years.

Countries like Germany seem to have this right as they can be competitive net producers in the world market and pay living wages to their workers.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):
Its due ---- us, you & me -- the consumers.

  

We continue to demand cheaper and cheaper stuff and not pay attention to the consequences of the actions needed to keep goods cheap.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:13 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
Security Guard is in need of a living wage, as is a CEO.

Though are you talking a living wage or a "Union wage" Because we are talking 2 different things.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
windy95
Posts: 2660
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:14 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 30):
The Republican's want to kill healthcare for the many

No we want to pay for our own healthcare...

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 30):
30 K is not a deep pocket to draw from

A husband and wife both making this will make for pretty easy living in most areas..Minus all the frivolous crap tha AMericans have become accustomed to..Like Cell phones, Cable, internet, Big screens and energy gobbling homes that are two big for two families let alone one.

Quoting san747 (Reply 35):
we are constantly fed this myth that if we work hard and struggle, we can become rich, which is quite disingenuous in my opinion.

I would not say that. It would be that you can succeed if you work hard. Now what someones idea of being successful is???

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 32):
Its due ---- us, you & me -- the consumers

You are correct. Even in the AIrline industry consumers want cheap prices no matter what. The problem then happens that they want greyhound prices with first class service.
 
N867DA
Posts: 952
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:15 pm

I think the good man from General Electric is trying to tell his countrymen that their standard of living is going to drop significantly, and that getting used to economic mediocrity before it happens is a great way to avoid collapsing in shock when it happens. $15/hr is not enough to live comfortably, but what that tells us is that the average American may not live as comfortable as he or she did ten years ago in future years.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
Truth hurts.... Immelt is only relaying reality.

Either we accept it, or one goes on living with blinders failing to see the world has forever evolved and this is no longer Mayberry circa 1952.

Like the old Dire Straights song, Balogna again. This is the corporate version, you eat Bologna, while I eat anything that 16 million will buy. Comical once again, I will defend a 16 million dollar salary, because I am in Management.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting san747 (Reply 35):
The reason no one is humble is because in this culture, we are constantly fed this myth that if we work hard and struggle, we can become rich, which is quite disingenuous in my opinion. Hard work and struggle are important, certainly, but are not guarantees of upward social mobility. The fact is, the vast majority of people who bust their ass their whole lives are not going to achieve lives of opulence, and we need to stop telling people that. I think we as a society would be a lot happier if we didn't place unachievable expectations on ourselves and shame ourselves into thinking we're failures when we don't actually achieve them

I pretty much do this already. Frankly, I'm on the verge of declaring myself insane. I'm already in therapy because of my job. Yesterday, I had to help my fellow co-worker assist a colostomy resident who also has severe dimensia -- NOT FUN! I also have to wipe ass day in and day out, give showers, listen to complaints, listen to family complaints. I do all of this for a hell of a lot less than 31k a year. Oh, and thrown into the mix is the fact that I'm a diabetic. My lifestyle is already very expensive, and not by my choice either...

I feel that I have a shit load to offer any employer, but nobody wants to take a chance on me. I think that is another underlying problem in this country. Nobody wants to take a chance on new talent coming fresh out of college or graduate school, at least not in my field anyway. I read in a local publishing out of Pittsburgh about how many college grads are juggling jobs just to break even. That's why we put ourselves tens of thousands of dollars in debt, so we can tire ourselves out once we get into the real world? Then when we finally see an opening that we have a match for you can tell us we're too old? I keep telling my therapist that I seriously think I'm going to be stuck with this job well into my 30s. She tells me otherwise, of course, but given my luck over the past 5 years what the hell am I supposed to go by? I know I have really become quite cynical and negative as my faith in both myself and in Christ quickly fade...

I'm not even asking to make a huge salary right off the bat. I just want a chance to show someone what I am worth and what I am capable of doing. I'll worry about making a huge salary much later on in life. $30k to $40k might be a little below what I am "worth" but I'd stilll take it...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
windy95
Posts: 2660
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 42):
Like the old Dire Straights song, Balogna again. This is the corporate version, you eat Bologna, while I eat anything that 16 million will buy. Comical once again, I will defend a 16 million dollar salary, because I am in Management

In the whole scheme of things what the CEO makes is minor. But what a good CEO or CFO produces can be very good for everyone invloved in the company. It still sounds like jealousy and envy.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:00 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
Do you know who the stockholders are?


I owned stock Son, when you were not even a thought.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
Yeah, humble, as in not entitled. The whole hard work and innovation thing. You know, all that stuff that made America what it is. Don't worry. Some of us who aren't too preoccupied sitting on our stoops complaining about kids these days and how everything has gone downhill still remember.

Trust me Laddie, I can afford to do anything I want to, even in retirement. I earned my living in the days prior to the global economy. Immelt advocates poverty for all in their old age, not me though. Imagine a Stoop, a place to sit. Imagine. a Stoop, a slang word for those who are not too bright, such as some one who will swallow the corporate bull.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 39):
Though are you talking a living wage or a "Union wage" Because we are talking 2 different things.

My words were a living wage, not a subsistance wage, or a poverty line wage.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 44):
In the whole scheme of things what the CEO makes is minor. But what a good CEO or CFO produces can be very good for everyone invloved in the company. It still sounds like jealousy and envy.

The old fall back line for the advocates. Jealousy and envy. Might one have the possible thought that ONE MIGHT HAVE SOME BALLS. I guess that is a terrible thought to some without. I sense a lack thereof on here. I also wonder, you know all this corporate stuff, How?

[Edited 2011-09-19 09:07:23]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:10 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 43):
I'm not even asking to make a huge salary right off the bat. I just want a chance to show someone what I am worth and what I am capable of doing. I'll worry about making a huge salary much later on in life. $30k to $40k might be a little below what I am "worth" but I'd stilll take it...

Desperate times, desperate measures. Immelt and his buddies, brought on the desperate times that you are enjoying.

[Edited 2011-09-19 09:11:47]

[Edited 2011-09-19 09:22:21]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
windy95
Posts: 2660
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:10 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 46):
The old fall back line for the advocates. Jealousy and envy. Might one have the possible thought that ONE MIGHT HAVE SOME BALLS. I guess that is a terrible thought to some without. I sense a lack thereof on here.



Yes the advocates for people who are successful in their life's work..Not jealous of their life's work. Once again what that CEO makes is minimal in the scheme and cost of running these companies. Without those successful leaders and innovators many other people would have no jobs to go to..

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 45):
Imagine. a Stoop, a slang word for those who are not too bright, such as some one who will swallow the corporate bull.

Or follows the Union Bull..
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 8956
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Immelt, Jobs, 15 Dollars Per Hour.

Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 48):
Or follows the Union Bull..

Once again, let us be original, thoughtful. The unions try to help people. The corporations have never been known for helping people, exploiting people sure. screwing people sure, ruining the enviroment, sure. Lying, sure, by the way, if ones success is measured by only money accumulation, I guess I have to plead guilty to success, although I did it by hard work and savings, not by exploiting people.

[Edited 2011-09-19 09:20:31]
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Flighty, sbworcs and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos