fahadmk
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Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:47 pm

This past weekend, I was travelling to Houston, TX for a surprise birthday party for my sister. I was originally going to go with Continental/United, but because Delta had a great deal I decided to go with them and bring my mother and little sister along with me. I cancelled my booking with Continental/United and booked my ticket last Sunday.

Booking through the website was a breeze and I had my confirmation email and seat selection done with ease. I was booked onto Delta 2193 out of Newark (EWR) connecting with Delta 2472 (operated by Mesaba) out of Detroit (DTW) on my way to Houston (IAH).

The 17th rolls around and I get to the airport at 4:45 for my 6:00 AM departure. Get my boarding pass and go through security without a problem. While waiting in the boarding area, I purchase the day GoGo Internet pass, so I can get online while in the air to check some office emails. Once again, simple and easy.

The flight to DTW was quite uneventful. The crew was very professional and even gave me some extra Delta cookies and the whole can of Diet Coke. Deplaned and walked around the airport at Detroit, which I found to be beautiful.

This is where the great service I received from the ground crew at EWR and flight crew were washed away and tarred. My sister, mother and I were all tired, and knew that since we are only going to be in Houston for less than a day, we wanted to make sure we were well rested and not tired for the party.

I decided to upgrade our seats into First, so we can catch a few hours of good uninterrupted sleep. At the gate, I went to the counter, which was manned by a young lady. There were no passengers in front of me, yet I still stood there as the lady finagled with something underneath the counter. Having worked in retail, I tend to remain calm and patient, as I feel that by yelling and arguing you aren’t going to get anywhere. I waited for about 10 minutes and asked her if she could quickly just tell me if there was availability in first class.

She told me to hold on, which I did for another few minutes and I asked her again. She looked at me and said, read the TV screen behind you, it will tell you everything. I had mentioned to her that I had other questions as well, which the TV screen could not answer. After a few minutes of talking, she grabbed my boarding pass and said, “It’s gonna be $50 bucks for first”.

Funny she said that, because the screen was saying something completely different. I stood there puzzled and asked her to confirm because the screen says $100, and she said, “Yeah, its $50”.

At this point I was getting a little frustrated with her, as I was trying to figure out something so simple, and she just wasn’t willing to help. I had additional questions about load and flight time, just as conversation, but she wasn’t really willing to answer any of those. I decided I wasn’t going to subject her to the pain of doing her job, and myself to the pain of having to deal with her any further and just sat down.

I decided to forgo the upgrade simply because I couldn’t be bothered to deal with her anymore. So praying the seat next to me remained empty, I boarded the aircraft. Luckily for me, it was empty! The aircraft was a CRJ900 and the first row (bulk head) in Economy was empty. I was in the second row, seat 6A and seat 6B was empty. The seats on the other side of the isle were occupied by my sister in the isle (6C) and mother at the window (6D). Behind me in 7A was a South Asian gentleman; as well as behind my mother in 7D.

Once the doors are closed, some passengers from behind came and filled in the bulk head row in front of me, but 6B remained empty. This was great since my seat wouldn’t recline. Someone had pressed the button to recline so hard, that it was jammed in. Drinks are served and after about 35 minutes in flight I realize my iPhone is running out of charge. I use my laptop to charge it, which was in the overhead compartment above my sister.I also wanted to get a new piece of gum. I get up to get my laptop bag (rolling laptop bag) and as I am sitting down in my seat, a women runs from the rear of the aircraft and sits next to me.

Before I get a chance to open the bag, she grabs the bag from me and moves it into the isle. She then turns to me and asks, “What do you have in your bag?”

I couldn’t even answer her, because after she asked me, she began staring at the flight attendant and point to me and my bag. The attendant was standing two rows ahead of me, which on a CRJ isn’t a great distance. Unfortunately, I didn’t look to see at the attendants reaction because I was still trying to figure out what was going on.

Once I think the lady realized the attendant was not coming over, I look at the with a puzzle face. It hasn’t hit me at this point that this lady is accusing me, due to my skin color of being something I am most certainly not. I finally tell her it’s my laptop bag, and I have my laptop in it. She, at this point is staring at me as if I am going to do something to the plane and she is going to be hero.

She moves my bag further into the isle and continues to say things like:

“What are you going to do?”
“I know I am paranoid, but what are you going to do to the plane”
“I am not a psycho”
“I am nervous, and it’s not only you who is making me nervous”
“There are two other people like you The guy behind you is just like you
“I am not comfortable and I am not a psycho”
“I am going to sit here and watch you, if you don’t mind”

I tell her that I just want some gum, and she brings my bag in closer so I can open the flap and take it out. I thought it best not to take my laptop out, as who knows what she would accuse me of then. I know that in even though we live in America, there are still many prejudices we have to deal with and accept. At one point or another, we have all done it to someone. Knowing this, and knowing in detail what happened last week to 3 people of colored skin, just because they were sitting next to each other and went to the bathroom, I knew I had to remain calm.

To me, all I was thinking was; if I am to say anything or argue back, there is a very high chance of me being taken off the aircraft and missing my sisters’ birthday party. That would make this trip rather useless, now wouldn't it? It doesn’t take much for the authorities to cuff you and take you in for questioning, and we all know questioning can last a very long time. Also, being a huge fan of travelling, I could not risk being put on any lists!

A few minutes go by and she is still sitting next to me. She once again tells me that it’s not only me she is suspicious of, but the two people “like me” who are seated in row 7. She tells me that one of them went to the bathroom and I did to , and he came back looking a bit shady.

I don’t recall the exact word she used, because she was unable to articulate her words properly at this point. She keeps my laptop bag between her feet and I decide that I am just going to go back to watching movies on my iPhone. She looks at me and asks me what I am doing with “that”, referring to my iPhone. I told her, I am watching a movie, and because now I am getting frustrated, and sarcastically ask her if she wants that as well.

She sits there while I watch my movie and then gets up and goes to the flight attendant. In this time, my sister turns to me and tells me that this is not the first time she has gone to the attendant. I look over at her and she is pointing to me and saying something to the attendant in the first class cabin. Once she leaves, the attendant she comes to me for a little and then just hurries back to her seat in the back.

I was tempted to get up and say something to the attendant, but she seemed to be out of view at this point and I decide that I will deal with it later, as the flight was nearing an end and I just couldn’t be bothered. I knew that if I had started talking about it, I would lose my temper and nothing good would come of that.

Now that I had my laptop bag in my possession, I put it into the floor storage and continued onto Houston – George Bush Airport. As we deplaned, I was thinking about complaining, but my mother and sister requested that I deal with it later , as my patience had gone and I would have most probably turned back and cursed off the lady and the crew for not handling it at all.

We get to the gate and disembark from gate A14. Across the gate are the bathrooms, and my mother decides to freshen up. As they are freshening up, I stand outside and wait. The lunatic women gives me the dirtiest stare down as she and her two elder companions walk passed me.

Now, my concern is this. Why did the crew not do anything? Granted, I did not report it to them, but the lunatic lady did. Apparently on three occasions she communicated with the crew.

In today’s day in age, even though I wasn’t a threat, aren’t all threats taken into count? Now that I think about it, I don’t know if I would mind being questioned, because that would mean that the insane women would be dealt with and I would have paper proof of racial profiling.

I am going to be writing to Delta, but any ideas on what else I can do?

On a side note, as I waited at the terminal, I saw that D.L. Hughley was on my plane!
flown on..747-200/300/400 - 777-200/200ER/200LR/300/300ER/ - 767-200/300ER - 757-200/300 - 737-300/400/500/600/700/900/9
 
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mayor
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:02 pm

Perhaps the Flight Attendant used some common sense and disregarded what the passenger said about you. Don't forget that this is less than a week after the anniversary of 9/11 and people have been bombarded by news programs and re-runs of movies about the event. They are probably a little paranoid at this point. However that does not excuse the lady's behavior.....I'm just explaining the possible cause.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
JL418
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:15 pm

This is what happens when unstable, or most probably unsure, people get brainwashed by that terror propaganda we call "news". You got all my deepest sympathies Fahad, never let these events spoil your life for a single second. You were right at not freaking out, you've shown how an adult person should behave.
 
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usxguy
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:20 pm

Unfortunately the racism just isn't on Delta 2472, but its everywhere.

The moment AA 11 hit the twin towers, life for anyone of arab, or arab-looking decent was just made hell for the rest of their lives. The media flashed the terrorists photos all over TV, the media jumps at anyone in the middle east and use the words "jihad" and it has caused for a very antsy society. Heck, people even get paranoid when orthodox jews pray in flight.

Same with "black" people - while 99% of black people just want to live their lives, its the 1% that have caused many people to look at black people in a defensive mode.

:/
xx
 
NASBWI
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:30 pm

I agree with the first two posters that it was grossly unfair to be harrassed like that by anybody. You have my sympathy. However, I would have gotten the attendants' attention if that had happened to me. Perhaps they would have instructed the woman to return to her seat and cease her harassment. As it is though, the only valid complaint you have against delta is their lack of customer service in DTW, I'm afraid. Good luck!
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:31 pm

You could write to Delta but it seems other than telling her to get bent, they really didn't do anything wrong.

As a person in retail, you know that there is nothing you can do to make a crazy person any less crazy...you can only try to keep them calm.

The lady was a wackjob nut. You did much better than I would have...somebody grabs my stuff and if they don't have a badge and a gun, I would not be able to remain calm.

As for the agent, writing Delta about her is a good idea. I doubt she is racist...just bitchy. She probably treats everyone like crap.
What the...?
 
dsuairptman
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:37 pm

Quoting JL418 (Reply 2):
This is what happens when unstable, or most probably unsure, people get brainwashed by that terror propaganda we call "news".

   Well said.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:44 pm

That was a truly horrible thing to hear. People are just psycho. It's a shame that wackjob couldn't just sit, shut up, and mind her own business. People like her is why flying is becoming such a hassle. I'd write a serious letter to Delta, say you were harassed on board one of their aircraft and the F/A did nothing to help the situation. People need to grow up and cut out the racism.
Blue
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
Coronado990
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):
I tell her that I just want some gum, and she brings my bag in closer so I can open the flap and take it out.

I don't understand??? She has your bag in control during the whole flight? I think I would have said something. Where's the air Marshall when you need them?
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
aogdesk
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:54 pm

I typically stay out of these discussions, but in this case I feel compelled to respond.

The behavior that you were subjected to is not that of a rational person, and in my opinion, the complete lack of response from the cabin/flight crew is questionable at best. There is no way in hell that you (or anyone) should be accosted or have your personal belongings commandeered by another passenger for any reason. Cabin & flight crews exist primarily for your safety, and under the circumstances YOU were the one whose safety was at risk. Not psycho lady.

On behalf of the sane portion of the population, I apologize for the behavior of the bigots
 
chuchoteur
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:00 pm

oh well...

... makes me glad I'm of chinese origin. Last time someone insisted on calling me an ethnic minority, I had to explain that the likes of me account for more than a 5th of the world population. That calmed them down a bit  
 
777ord
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:01 pm

That's a horrible experience and I couldn't imagine the frustration you had to experience.

I hope you don't just let this event slide. That lady cleary is ....'d up in the head.
 
Ih8b6
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:03 pm

I too never respond to most things on here anymore. But this one caused me to log back in.

Sorry to hear about your experience. It's a shame that in this day and age people still act this way. I would have told the lady off in the airport after the flight.

I am not sure what writing a letter will do about the situation. If every person that experienced an idiot fellow traveler wrote to airlines, there would be a nonstop mail flowing in. Also, how did you know that the flight attendant DIDN'T tell the lady to calm the hell down and shut up? If the lady was as much of a lunatic as you said, it sounds like nothing anyone would tell her would shut her up and quite her down.

Lastly, your title is misleading. I expected to read about how you experienced racism by a Delta (actually Mesaba) crew on-board a flight. As I read your experience I kept waiting for it to happen (with a Delta employee) and I thought it was coming at the Delta gate in DTW. It didn't. You should change your title to reflect who was racist on the Delta flight. It's misleading.

Good luck and ignore the lunatics....there are too many not too!

[Edited 2011-09-19 12:26:45 by srbmod]
Over-moderation sucks
 
RamblinMan
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:03 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 5):
As a person in retail, you know that there is nothing you can do to make a crazy person any less crazy...you can only try to keep them calm.

Yeah I'm not sure you can fault DL here. It's not like they put out an advertisement welcoming the nutters- they exist, and I'm sure they sometimes fly UA. I wasn't there, obviously, but I'm not sure the attendant really knew exactly what was going on. You should do what makes you most comfortable, but I definitely would have gone to the attendant. Then again, I'm a white dude...we're never dangerous, are we?  

Sucks that you had to go through that. Try not to let it bother you too much, it's only been a week since this year's annual day of panic and paranoia.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:07 pm

Did any other passengers overhear this woman? I would have given her a piece of my mind if I heard her treating someone that way. Disgusting.
 
4holer
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:09 pm

I'm disappointed in the other passengers. Had I been sitting nearby, I'd have told the lady that I'd "guard" the bag and keep a eye you, now go back to her seat and keep an eye on the other passengers. Then apologize, give you back the bag and let you get on with your day...
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 9):
in my opinion, the complete lack of response from the cabin/flight crew is questionable at best.

I do not envy the FA's at all in this sad story, talk about a no-win situation. I don't think the FAs could have done anything but made the situation worse if they'd gotten involved-the whole thing was a tinderbox waiting to blow up (maybe I should use another analogy). Thanks to Fahad's levelheadedness and no response from the FA, the situation eventually resolved itself. I'd say if she'd already told her wackadoo story to them, they were keeping an eye on her. If they had tried to force the issue with her, it sounded like a real possibility she could have just flown off the handle and really assaulted him or the FA.

Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):

In today’s day in age, even though I wasn’t a threat, aren’t all threats taken into count? Now that I think about it, I don’t know if I would mind being questioned, because that would mean that the insane women would be dealt with and I would have paper proof of racial profiling.

1) There is no need to go around diverting flights and crying Chicken Little for every single iota of a hint of "suspicion" from someone who thinks something is amiss. In fact, that could very well lead to less safety in the future. The FA's judged you to be completely not a threat. Obviously they were right.

2) I don't know what good "paper proof of racial profiling" would do you. "Racial profiling" isn't illegal, at least in this context. It doesn't have to equate to "racism" either, although it might in this case (hard to say, really). It stinks and it's totally unfair and very sad, but it's not illegal. I get "profiled" every once in awhile as a blond-haired, blue-eyed white man with a southern accent. That even hurts me.

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):

I am going to be writing to Delta, but any ideas on what else I can do?

I don't know what good writing to Delta would do you, as I don't see really what the flight attendants did wrong. And do you think it's worth getting them in trouble? Say they got a letter put in their file from this incident. That could affect them later in their career. Is this incident really worth it?

And if by "what else I can do" you mean "can I seek legal remedy against Delta/the woman/etc," I don't think you have much of a case. For lack of a better word, people are crappy. It happens.

[Edited 2011-09-19 12:19:55]
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
N1120A
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:19 pm

There is no place for this sort of behavior. Russell Peters had a funny bit about a woman behaving similarly toward him on a flight not long after the actual 9/11, and pointed out just how stupid such behavior is.

In a way, I'm glad the FA ignored the woman the way she did. Its better than so many reactions we have seen, where even very frequent flyers have been harassed by airline staff, the police and the TSA because of similar (or even much milder) accusations by other people on the plane. I'd rather the FA have ordered her back to her seat and to stop harassing the OP, but this is certainly a start.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 16):
Did any other passengers overhear this woman? I would have given her a piece of my mind if I heard her treating someone that way. Disgusting.

No doubt. Then again, I'm brown and have a funny name, so who knows what would have happened then?

[Edited 2011-09-19 12:28:24 by srbmod]
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
kaitak
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:21 pm

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):
To me, all I was thinking was; if I am to say anything or argue back, there is a very high chance of me being taken off the aircraft and missing my sisters’ birthday party. That would make this trip rather useless, now wouldn't it? It doesn’t take much for the authorities to cuff you and take you in for questioning, and we all know questioning can last a very long time. Also, being a huge fan of travelling, I could not risk being put on any lists!

To me, this is the scariest part of all of this - that some complete "whack-job" can accuse someone like this and, on the balance of probabilities, it's most likely that you would end up being accused and put on some list.

You say that it's something that you have to live with and I understand your viewpoint; it must be a horrible thing to have to deal with and you behaved with great dignity and patience, in the face of someone who was clearly not the full shilling.

It is disappointing that the crew did not do anything; I don't feel in this case that you would achieve anything meaningful by writing to either Delta or Mesaba.
 
YYZRWY23
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Absolutely awful. No one deserves to be treated that way. I know I would not have been able to keep my mouth shut. If anyone touches my bag, that isn't a crew member and explaining themselves, I will take it back. If that woman put up a fight, I would have physically removed her form my property. Not violently, just removed her from my property. Then, I am sure the FA would have seen this, would have come over and could look in my bag. Then, I would verbally recommend restraining someone who clearly isn't mentally stable.

I think the fanatics, delusional, mentally unstable, and easily impressionable are more of a threat on-board an aircraft then ever before.

YYZRWY23
If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
 
Ih8b6
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
In a way, I'm glad the FA ignored the woman the way she did. Its better than so many reactions we have seen, where even very frequent flyers have been harassed by airline staff, the police and the TSA because of similar (or even much milder) accusations by other people on the plane. I'd rather the FA have ordered her back to her seat and to stop harassing the OP, but this is certainly a start.

Good point - by the flight attendant choosing to put no stock into the nut's concerns, it showed the flight attendant likely agreed with the OP - the lady was crazy. "Ignore it and it will go way approach"!

The nut job lady will probably write a letter to Delta about having to ride DTW-IAH with the suspicious passenger in 6A that watches movies on his laptop and the flight attendant ignoring her claims!
Over-moderation sucks
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 20):
To me, this is the scariest part of all of this - that some complete "whack-job" can accuse someone like this and, on the balance of probabilities, it's most likely that you would end up being accused and put on some list.

I don't agree with the latter half of your statement. From what I understand this situation is hardly rare, but usually ends in a manner similar to this -- cooler heads prevail, the flight proceeds as planned, and no one is ever hassled.

While security in the US is "vigilant," we are not barbarians. It's not perfect, but it does a pretty good job most of the time.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
DALelite
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:06 pm

Somehow , reading your report made me angry towards you. Since this woman trespassed your boundries, several times, you should've showed her where your line to stop is. This is what she was perhaps was asking for. You could even ask the cabin crew to be reseated, according to the harrasement of this woman , who forgot to take her medicaments. Then the cabin crew would have at least come into action.

Try not to play the race card anymore.. try to deal with it as an adult, even if you have to fight for it and have to speak up!

And forget about what happened three weeks before with other black dudes, who where obviously acting strange on a plane.

Here you are talking about your situation.

cheers: DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
N243NW
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 5):
As a person in retail, you know that there is nothing you can do to make a crazy person any less crazy...you can only try to keep them calm.

I completely agree with this one. Judging by how the OP described the situation, it doesn't sound like there was anything else he (or anyone else) could have done to make the lady drop the subject. In fact, I think there's a good chance that any action by you or the flight attendant to prove her wrong would just set off a powder keg and make matters much worse. I don't think any nearby passengers could have reassured her, either - she wanted to make sure she PERSONALLY had her eye on you, and anyone else volunteering to help instead of her would probably be seen as an "accomplice" to your "nefarious" acts.

It's a shame that these situations sometimes can't be avoided, but this lady is part of the 1% of people out there who don't think rationally, no matter what. And as much as I would like to think otherwise, she truly is incorrigible and no amount of persuasion will ever change her set-in ways. I commend you for being mature and keeping your cool in this situation; lord knows what I would have done.
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
lewis
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:03 pm

Ummm, she "confiscated" your bag for no reason and you did nothing? I understand that you didn't want this to escalate but I would have called the flight attendant to let her know that a crazy woman has taken my hand luggage. I would also ask for the police to meet her at the destination, now that would be appropriate!
 
AR385
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:47 pm

I´m sorry, but I don´t agree with many statements made on this thread. Obviously the lady was either mentally unstable, forgot her medication that day, or was intoxicated (you mentioned at some point she was speaking strangely)

Everytime I´ve had an issue with another passenger much, much, much less serious than what happened to you I have gone to the FA, the purser, preferably if there is one, and calmly, explained the issue. Then it has been resolved by the crew, sometimes by them being firm towards whoever was causing me trouble.

I just can´t believe you let the woman take your stuff, KEEP if from you and then INTERROGATE you. You did rigth to remain calm, obviously if you had reacted badly you would have played straight into her game, which is what she wanted.

But do not take this the wrong way, I do believe you should have gone to the FA and been, calm and courteous but ASSERTIVE about the harrassment you were being subjected too and that she better do something about it. That´s one of the unfortunate things cabin crew are there for too.

I hope you do not have sequels from this event. This would have given a lot of people PTSD.
 
varigb707
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):
Racism On Board Delta 2472  

Hey, the terrorists called and wanted to say : 'Winning".

That's what they wanted. Panic and fear, nothing else. I don't mean to be "funny" or make fun of the 9-11 events.
It's a just shame we have to live in a society where we all are subject of events such as this one described by fahadmk.

I understand what has happened to you. I am from a mixed famly. Half Italian and half portuguese. I don't look like neither
but i am often mistaken for a spanish looking person. I get lots of "gracias" and "adios" all the time. Not that there's
aything wrong with that.

Oh well,,,

Peace!

[Edited 2011-09-19 17:36:23]
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
csavel
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:27 am

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 26):
That's what they wanted. Panic and fear, nothing else. I don't mean to be "funny" or make fun of the 9-11 events.
It's a just shame we have to live in a society where we all are subject of events such as this one described by fahadmk.

THis. I am not discounting legitimate security for terrorism but the "security theater" and the porno scanners and the shoes off and the meek way we go about having our liberty taken away was exactly what Al Qaeda wanted. They knew we would overreact and in doing so harm ourselves.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
soon7x7
Posts: 2267
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:14 am

I would have told her I just have connected from a long International flight from the Middle East and have really bad gas, but she is welcome to sit next to me...that would have fixed the old goat...
 
ronglimeng
Posts: 562
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:44 am

It maybe "the land of the free" down there, but that's mostly because it is "the home of the brave", eh? You need to grow a pair and be ready to stand up for your own rights when necessary and not rely on some institution or business to do that for you.

I just hate it when every crabby, poorly-trained, poorly-selected, or poorly-selected service person or every "whack job" is called a racist.

I'm a racist and we are far more subtle than any of this !
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:29 am

I'll be honest, I've seen people behave like that on a number of DL flights to MSP and DTW.

NS
 
adh214
Posts: 346
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:53 pm

I applaud your patience in dealing with this person. Unfortunately, Delta can't prevent rude paranoid people from boarding their planes. Certainly, you could have mentioned the issue to the fa but frequently escalating an issue with a crazy person does not really help. In the end, you just wanted to get to Houston and your decision to deescalate the issue and sit quietly accomplished this. We can all play Monday morning quarterback but you handled the situation in the best way possible to avoid further problems.

Andrew
 
TSS
Posts: 2485
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:45 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 5):
there is nothing you can do to make a crazy person any less crazy...you can only try to keep them calm.

  
That sentence really needs to be made into a bumper sticker.

Quoting lewis (Reply 24):
Ummm, she "confiscated" your bag for no reason and you did nothing? I understand that you didn't want this to escalate but I would have called the flight attendant to let her know that a crazy woman has taken my hand luggage.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 25):
But do not take this the wrong way, I do believe you should have gone to the FA and been, calm and courteous but ASSERTIVE about the harrassment you were being subjected too and that she better do something about it. That´s one of the unfortunate things cabin crew are there for too.

I'm inclined to agree with Lewis and AR385 on this. While I can ignore someone watching my every move and asking me crazy questions, when someone tries to take my stuff away from me that crosses a line and it's time to seek the intervention of an authority figure, in this case a flight attendant. As AR385 pointed out, the trick is to remain calm and polite when explaining the situation to the authority figure.

Quoting lewis (Reply 24):
I would also ask for the police to meet her at the destination, now that would be appropriate!

I'm not sure I would have gone quite that far. I guess it would depend on how things went on the plane with the F/A.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
gocaps16
Posts: 4138
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:57 pm

I'm surprised you kept your cool in this situation, kudos to you but you should have notified the crew since this lady was harassing you and asking you so many stupid questions. What get's me is she just grabbed your bag and kept it "between her feet." Oh no, it's game on if someone does that to me.

Quoting USXguy (Reply 3):
The moment AA 11 hit the twin towers, life for anyone of arab, or arab-looking decent was just made hell for the rest of their lives.

Sadly, I have witnessed this on the afternoon of 9/11 after I was walking home from school when I lived in the US. A driver in a vehicle shouted "F#$% You" to a middle eastern man near where I lived.

You rarely here this shit going on where I live at. I'm sure a few A.net americans who are living in Japan agrees with me. I'm sure I'll be back in the U.S eventually, but after my military career ends, I'll be moving with my wife and daughter back to Japan and settle here til I get old.
 
lewis
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 32):
I'm not sure I would have gone quite that far. I guess it would depend on how things went on the plane with the F/A.

I will admit, too far, but seeing that people have had to deal with the police for much much less than that, I wouldn't hesitate to use the system against them. I would probably have to resort to that if "crazy lady" wouldn't back off or kept messing with my stuff. After all, I could accuse her of trying to steal from me.
 
zrs70
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:55 am

This post was way too long. I was expecting a turn of events in the first part, when dealing with the upgrade. But it seems like that had nothing to do with the actual story! In short:

1) Passenger is or looks Arab.
2) Another passenger is suspicious of him and acts neurotic
3) i stopped reading at this point, but there must be a concise conclusion!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
474218
Posts: 4510
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:42 am

fahadmk:

After reading your initial post several times I cannot find any point where RACISM was exhibited by anyone?

Where did anyone suggest one race was superior to other races.
 
gigneil
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:50 am

I'm sorry, you don't understand where there's racism?

Really? Picking someone out of a crowd with dark skin, when you are light skinned, and accusing them of a wide host of suspicious behavior, and you don't understand?

Seriously? I mean, really?

NS
 
JU068
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 37):
I'm sorry, you don't understand where there's racism?

Really? Picking someone out of a crowd with dark skin, when you are light skinned, and accusing them of a wide host of suspicious behavior, and you don't understand?

Seriously? I mean, really?

Well the woman was obviously mad, it would have been a totally different situation if she wasn't. Plus, it's not her fault but that of the US government for creating such image of Middle Eastern people.

I am sorry but when I was leaving Delhi the little room at the end of the ''check in'' area was filled with white people that were harassed. My friend and I were harassed for 5 hours (!!) and we had to go through much worse than what he has gone through.

As a Serb I was discriminated in Western Europe but did not write reports on the internet, all these experience helped me grow a pair and deal with a thing called life.
 
777way
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 37):

There are always these types hanging around here who will try to favour the guilty party by making the poster appear incorrect and the wholr thing seem like a non-issue, as well as try to make the affected person especially of a different race, feel at fault or overreactive and insecure.

[Edited 2011-09-23 10:51:07]
 
gigneil
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):
Well the woman was obviously mad, it would have been a totally different situation if she wasn't. Plus, it's not her fault but that of the US government for creating such image of Middle Eastern people.

Mad or not, it was still racially motivated behavior. You know?

NS
 
777way
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:00 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):


As a Serb I was discriminated in Western Europe but did not write reports on the internet, all these experience helped me grow a pair and deal with a thing called life.

Being harassed in white Europe? for being Serb, no big deal IMO, its like me being harassed in the Middle East, I wouldnt even care except think low of their attitude, because racially and culturally we are almost similar in many ways, but I would really feel the pinch if harassed in Europe or similar places..
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 40):

Mad or not, it was still racially motivated behavior. You know?

I understand your point and it would make perfect sense if the person was in the right state of mind, which she obviously wasn't. Plus, I am sure that if he had reacted differently she would have not behaved like this.

Quoting 777way (Reply 41):
Being harassed in white Europe? for being Serb, no big deal IMO, its like me being harassed in the Middle East, I wouldnt even care except think low of their attitude, because racially and culturally we are almost similar in many ways, but I would really feel the pinch if harassed in Europe or similar places..

Yes, but you copied only one part of my comment. In the other part I mentioned that I was harassed in India as well- that's pretty much the same as this one.
Then again if you think that a white person being harassed by another white person is not a big deal, then why should you care about this? You can't be selective about discrimination, you are either in favor of it or against it. Quite simple.

Quoting fahadmk (Thread starter):
I decided to go with them and bring my mother and little sister along with me.

He stated that he was flying with his mother in the plane. Now, if something similar to this was to happen to me or to one of my two sisters our mother would most definetly intervene.
So maybe some of the a.net members who are parents could help me understand if they woud actually sit quietly while their child is being harassed?
 
777way
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:16 pm

But in India you were the superior white race, other than disgust I doubt you felt insulted as other races do when harassed in white countries, I wouldnt even mind harassment in India or "whiter" east Asia, or even Africa and latin America where the whites are not native, but not in any western nation or even eastern Europe, because the racism thats practised there pales in comparison to other places, and every race on earth is racist regardless or their colour.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 42):
He stated that he was flying with his mother in the plane. Now, if something similar to this was to happen to me or to one of my two sisters our mother would most definetly intervene.
So maybe some of the a.net members who are parents could help me understand if they woud actually sit quietly while their child is being harassed?

Are you suggesting he is lying? cooked up this saga? people especially women can be quite timid from certain regions and they dont like to get involved if the MAN can handle the situation, regardless of the mans age, I have seen a very upsetting situation in my own country in public view in a crowded area where a thug type guy called Feudal Lords here rich agricultral land owners belonging to rural areas, had a boy change his cars tyre while the boys aged parents stood by watching and pacifying the thug and letting their son continue with the humilitation of doing the chore, rather than create hue and cry or condemn the guy who had armed guards with him, who could have changed the tyre, no one dared even intervene, incident occured when the family's car bumped into the thugs, dont know how his tyre got punctured though perhaps the impact was quite bad but I cant recall.
 
777way
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:37 pm

White harassing white is racism to you? if I get harassed by my own country men or people of my ethnicity and culture elsewhere say Muslim Pakistani ethnic TSA staff, its racism? harassment yes, racism no.

I care about this becuase he is minority of a different background, culture, religion, BTW I have said the same for Blacks and other minorities when haraased or racially profiled, so its not like this guy is Muslim or probably from Pakistan or even Arab that I'm defending him, he could ba an atheist white latino.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 42):
Then again if you think that a white person being harassed by another white person is not a big deal, then why should you care about this? You can't be selective about discrimination, you are either in favor of it or against it. Quite simple.


[Edited 2011-09-23 13:45:28]
 
lewis
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:39 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 42):
Plus, I am sure that if he had reacted differently

He stood there and took it so as not to escalate it. What else could he have (not) done?

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):
Well the woman was obviously mad,

Anyone who behaves like that because of someone else's race is mad in my opinion. Should I conclude that there is no racism most of the time, just a lot of madness going around?

Quoting ju068 (Reply 42):
Now, if something similar to this was to happen to me or to one of my two sisters our mother would most definetly intervene.

I have come to realize that females from certain cultures tend to distance themselves from such situations and keep their calm, especially if it involves the male accompanying them.
It doesn't sound like a fake/far fetched story to me.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 38):

As a Serb I was discriminated in Western Europe but did not write reports on the internet, all these experience helped me grow a pair and deal with a thing called life.

As a Serb, the discrimination you may get in W. Europe is probably similar to the one I get as a Greek, checking my passport twice to make sure it is not fake, asking questions regarding the duration and purpose of my trip - as in not discrimination at all. I doubt you have ever been accused directly of being a terrorist just because you are a Serb.
 
JU068
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:40 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 43):
Are you suggesting he is lying? cooked up this saga? people especially women can be quite timid from certain regions and they dont like to get involved if the MAN can handle the situation, regardless of the mans age, I have seen a very upsetting situation in my own country in public view in a crowded area where a thug type guy called Feudal Lords here rich agricultral land owners belonging to rural areas, had a boy change his cars tyre while the boys aged parents stood by watching and pacifying the thug and letting their son continue with the humilitation of doing the chore, rather than create hue and cry or condemn the guy who had armed guards with him, who could have changed the tyre, no one dared even intervene, incident occured when the family's car bumped into the thugs, dont know how his tyre got punctured though perhaps the impact was quite bad but I cant recall.

I am not implying anything, however I can't be sure this happened as I wasn't there. I am just using what he is providing us with.
Yes, just that the main difference was that this woman was not a Feudal Lord in Pakistan she was a mad woman in an airplane in the United States. She did not threaten him with a gun but rather with simple words, she wasn't even going to hit him! There is a huge difference.
Maybe if mothers from his region do behave like that, fine, I just made a comparison with the motherly instinct in most European countries.

Quoting 777way (Reply 44):
White harassing white is racism to you? if I get harassed by my own country men or people of my ethnicity and culture elsewhere say Muslim Pakistani ethnic TSA staff, its racism? harassment yes, racism no.

No, I did not say racism but discrimination.

Quoting lewis (Reply 45):
He stood there and took it so as not to escalate it. What else could he have (not) done?

Erm... not allow her to take his stuff, sit next to him and actually find the cabin crew. The fact that he didn't do anything made things even worse as the mad woman realized that she could do whatever she wants.
What do you think a Greek guy would have done if something like this would happen to him?  
Quoting lewis (Reply 45):
Anyone who behaves like that because of someone else's race is mad in my opinion. Should I conclude that there is no racism most of the time, just a lot of madness going around?

There is racism everywhere, but there is a huge differece when a person behaves like this because of a medical condition and there is a difference when a person is racist just because he hates other races.

Quoting lewis (Reply 45):
As a Serb, the discrimination you may get in W. Europe is probably similar to the one I get as a Greek, checking my passport twice to make sure it is not fake, asking questions regarding the duration and purpose of my trip - as in not discrimination at all. I doubt you have ever been accused directly of being a terrorist just because you are a Serb.

Well you as a Greek should not be asked those questions in Western Europe (with the exception of the UK and Ireland) since you are part of the Schengen zone.
Of course I wasn't treated of being a terrorist but I had people stop talking to me just because I come from Serbia. Or when they would ask me where I am from, as soon as I would tell them they would look at me differently.
Something that happens very often to both Serbs and Greeks and I experienced it with my two Greek friends in Maastricht was that everyone looked down on us and made jokes about Serbia being the craddle of genocide and Greece of being broke and useless.
But we didn't care nor did we bi**h about it online- we just moved on.

I suppose that the thread starter is from Pakistan, which would make his claims of racism even more absurd since Pakistanis just like Indians belong to the Mediterranean rung of Caucasian race. Which means that the adequate term was- discrimination- not racism.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:10 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 43):

But in India you were the superior white race

Dude, racism is racism. How about a bunch of American blacks (who many view themselves as the superior race) making discriminating against a white person? Yes, there are areas where white kids are the minorities and their fight against racism is no less important than any other form, including this case on Delta 2472. Your statement is bollocks
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Quokka
Posts: 1315
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RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:09 pm

Racism is not always based on notions of superiority or the result of hatred. Racism often means treating people adversely because of assumed characteristics a person may have based on notions of race or ethnicity.

I am not sufficiently familiar with the law in other countries, but in Western Australia the Equal Opportunity Act 1984 for example defines race as follows:
Quote:
"race includes colour, descent, ethnic or national origin or nationality and the fact that a race may comprise 2 or more distinct races does not prevent it being a race for the purposes of this Act;"

The Act continues:
Quote:
Racial discrimination
(1) For the purposes of this Act, a person (in this subsection referred to as the discriminator) discriminates against another person (in this subsection referred to as the aggrieved person) on the ground of race if, on the ground of —
(a) the race of the aggrieved person; or
(b) a characteristic that appertains generally to persons of the race of the aggrieved person; or
(c) a characteristic that is generally imputed to persons of the race of the aggrieved person,
the discriminator —
(d) treats the aggrieved person less favourably than in the same circumstances, or in circumstances that are not materially different, the discriminator treats or would treat a person of a different race; or
(e) segregates the aggrieved person from persons of a different race.

If we were to apply that definition to the above incident, if the woman behaved in the way that she did because she saw a man who appeared (in her mind) to be of Middle Eastern appearance and assumed him to be suspicious, possibly a terrorist, solely on that basis, then she was behaving in a racist manner. If, on the other hand, she is in the habit of accosting every passenger who wants to open a bag regardless of whether they are black, white or made of green cheese, then she can not be said to be behaving in a racist manner.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Racism On Board Delta 2472

Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:13 pm

Quoting Quokka (Reply 48):
Racism is not always based on notions of superiority or the result of hatred. Racism often means treating people adversely because of assumed characteristics a person may have based on notions of race or ethnicity.

You are confusing Racism with Bigotry!

Racism: a belief that that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

Bigotry or Bigot: one that is intolerant to one with different beliefs.

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