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SOBHI51
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Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:05 pm

Accoeding to CNN

From: BreakingNews@mail.cnn.com
To: textbreakingnews@ema3lsv06.turner.com
Sent: 10/11/2011 10:06:15 P.M. Arab Standard Time
Subj: CNN Breaking News


Deal reached to free captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in exchange for Palestinian prisoners, Israel and Hamas say.

Militants took Shalit after tunneling into Israel and attacking an Israeli army outpost, killing two soldiers.

Since then, he has been held incommunicado by Hamas, the movement that controls the Palestinian territory of Gaza. There have been ongoing attempts to broker a deal to release Shalit, and they have failed.

Also The Egyptian media says Egypt played a big role in the above (in Arabic)
http://www.egynews.net/wps/portal/news?params=143311
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washingtonian
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:41 pm

About time...Five years of holding a 19-year old hostage...In exchange for 1,000 prisoners. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between Israel and the Palestinians.

Glad to see Egypt playing a positive role in all this.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):
Deal reached to free captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in exchange for Palestinian prisoners, Israel and Hamas say.

Fingers crossed that this leads to some "good will" between the two sides, and further advances the difficult processes into peace talks.   
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racko
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:03 pm

Interesting that they'll release Barghouti...can't really make sense of this, neither Hamas nor Israel (nor even Abbas, not that he had any say in it) would benefit from it.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:48 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
Five years of holding a 19-year old hostage...In exchange for 1,000 prisoners

The other side is not the innocent either. Lets be honest here.
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imiakhtar
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:58 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
Five years of holding a 19-year old hostage

Five years? And for how many decades have the Israelis been holding Palestinians, many of whom are child detainees, without charge?

As aforementioned by SOBHI, we rarely hear the other side of the story.

Nevertheless, this release is a positive for the families concerned.
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Cadet985
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:07 am

As someone who is staunchly pro-Israel, I am happy that Gilad Shalit is being released, but also extremely pained at what Israel is giving up...1000 useless terrorists who should have all been killed at the time they were captured. They are just going to go back to Gaza and plot more attacks against Israel.

I'm sorry, but one soldier is not worth 1000 terrorists.

Marc
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:42 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):
.1000 useless terrorists who should have all been killed at the time they were captured

I see, you happen to know all the facts and that every single one of those "useless terrorists" were actually indeed terrorists. Many who have been held w/out being charged or tried for anything. I see.   
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:53 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):
I'm sorry, but one soldier is not worth 1000 terrorists.

Unless you are the soldier, who is alive, and has spent five years as a prisoner. Who can speak for him? Not you, not I.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:35 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
who is alive

There hasn't been proof of that in a couple years.

Marc
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:58 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
There hasn't been proof of that in a couple years.

Well, we have to assume he is, if this rumor, or rumors of a deal are true.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:27 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):

I'm sorry, but one soldier is not worth 1000 terrorists.

Not to make too light of it, but I for one am willing to bet that, proffienciency wise, he is indeed worth a 1000 or more terrorists. That's the thing with most terrorists... The people they are most dangerous to are themselves, statistically anyway...
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:06 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
There hasn't been proof of that in a couple years.

Just saw him on TV, is this enough proof?
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 12):

Just saw him on TV, is this enough proof?

The problem with TV is that video can be doctored. Heck, with the right equipment and know-how, I can make a video of myself having lunch with JFK.

I will believe he is alive and well when I see him in a warm embrace with his family.

Sorry if I seem cynical, but Hamas isn't exactly known for honesty.

Marc
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:29 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 13):
I can make a video of myself having lunch with JFK.

I'm sure that the authorities have made the appropriate investigations as to whether he is alive or dead by now.

Do you really think, all these high ranking Israeli officials, from Bibi, right down the line, would be involved in discussions like these, if they didn't have conclusive evidence that he was !

[Edited 2011-10-12 02:30:48]
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:37 am

The Israeli government isn't stupid. I'm sure the deal will be arranged with a trustee in the middle, i.e. Shalit handed over to Egypt, the prisoners handed over to Egypt, they make sure everything's fine, then transfer them to their destination.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:55 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 6):
I'm sorry, but one soldier is not worth 1000 terrorists.

Really ?

Well that depends entirely on who's opinion you listen too, because this "deal" has a way to go before anyone is released.

And according to reports from the LA Times, both sides are now reflecting, on exactly what they have had to "give up" in order to get to this stage.

"Initial jubilation over the impending prisoner swap between Israel and the Palestinian militant group Hamas began to dampen Wednesday as people on both sides expressed concerns that their leaders may have given away too much at the negotiating table."

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgm-i...aliestinian-swap-m,0,4056743.story

Quoting racko (Reply 15):
The Israeli government isn't stupid.

Again, that very much depends on who your inclined to listen too. Plenty of Israelis think there Gov is stupid for agreeing to this deal, they feel its way to generous in favor of the Palestinians
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:58 am

CNN just announced that he was released.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/18/wo...prisoner-swap/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Edited 2011-10-18 00:02:27]
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baroque
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:03 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 16):
Again, that very much depends on who your inclined to listen too. Plenty of Israelis think there Gov is stupid for agreeing to this deal, they feel its way to generous in favor of the Palestinians

Cross fingers that Israel does not now decide to even up the numbers by re-arresting 999 of those released. Then again, "how to start an new intifada" is likely one of the documents right on top of Bibi's desk drawer.
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:03 am

Hamas has handed over Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit to Egyptian mediators after five years' captivity, as part of a prisoner swap deal with Israel, Hamas officials have told the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15339604

This is very good news.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:19 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
Cross fingers that Israel does not now decide to even up the numbers by re-arresting 999 of those released


No they will build more settlements to prove how much they are committed to peace.
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:34 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
I see, you happen to know all the facts and that every single one of those "useless terrorists" were actually indeed terrorists.
However, our correspondent adds, Israel has paid a high price for Sgt Shalit's freedom. Many of the Palestinians being released were serving life for killing Israelis with bombs and bullets.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15339604

Not worth it Israel. Not worth it at all.
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Cadet985
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:35 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
Cross fingers that Israel does not now decide to even up the numbers by re-arresting 999 of those released.

They won't need to. A good number will probably blow themselves up in terrorist attacks (or be shot by IDF/police to stop attacks), and those that aren't may jusr "disappear."

Marc
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
About time...Five years of holding a 19-year old hostage...In exchange for 1,000 prisoners. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between Israel and the Palestinians.

Glad to see Egypt playing a positive role in all this.

Doesn't matter if your 19 or 50. This guy was part of the IDF so to a lot of people, he was considered the terrorist.
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 23):
Doesn't matter if your 19 or 50. This guy was part of the IDF so to a lot of people, he was considered the terrorist.

Then "a lot of people" don't know the definition of the word, terrorist.

In that spirit, I'm going to call the people who call IDF terrorists, terrorists. Makes sense.

asturias
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sfbdude
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 24):

Then "a lot of people" don't know the definition of the word, terrorist.

In that spirit, I'm going to call the people who call IDF terrorists, terrorists. Makes sense.

asturias

You've probably already considered those people terrorists anyways..
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:06 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 24):
In that spirit, I'm going to call the people who call IDF terrorists, terrorists. Makes sense.

Well, I can see some parallels between the IDF and this definition of "terrorist". Sure plenty of others can too !

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/terrorist

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/terrorist
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GDB
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:06 pm

Nice for his family I guess.
Still, this is on the watch on an Israeli PM who has not been slow to criticise other governments in not being strong on terrorism.
Indeed, Israel itself has long complained about this, not always when justified either.
Nothing on the magnitude of this however.

Then again, Bibi has long traded on his brother's death in the (brilliantly pulled off) 1976 Entebbe rescue.
Ironic to see him now releasing so many terrorists, even ones that are seen as such even by those not totally devoted to Israel.

I understand that Bibi is in political/economic trouble domestically, is this an attempt to divert from this?
He's slimy enough to try.

Am I right in saying that the US (and most other Western nations in fact) define HAMAS as a terrorist organisation?
If any other government did a 1000 for 1 swap we'd not hear the end of it, especially if they were European. Right Wing blowhards in the US would be screaming for sanctions most likely against such a spineless act!
In which case, why is this not being opposed, especially by the louder, more strident voices in the US?
Maybe some are?
Or can Israel really just get away with anything as far as they are concerned?

(Having said that, maybe not such a surprise, after all under St. Ronnie, Iran of all nations, when the embassy hostage crisis was still fresh in the memory, got US arms just to get a few hostages out of Lebanon in the 1980's.
Other nationalities held, whose governments did NOT kowtow in such a way, well they had to wait for the whole civil war there to wind down in the early 1990's).
 
baroque
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:56 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 22):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
Cross fingers that Israel does not now decide to even up the numbers by re-arresting 999 of those released.

They won't need to. A good number will probably blow themselves up in terrorist attacks (or be shot by IDF/police to stop attacks), and those that aren't may jusr "disappear."

So I suppose you have an explanation that about 150 Palestinian children down to 12 years in age are in Israeli military prisons for stone throwing.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/
Transcript of the story not up yet, but no doubt it is on the podcast.

From memory about a third of those imprisoned confessed after interrogation, but here is the interesting bit, most of these confessed in Hebrew, a language which they cannot speak or write.

So apparently Israeli prisons have amazingly effective language courses.

The reason why Hamas did not request their return is not that clear. Oh yes, arrests usually take place a couple of days after the alleged crime, and ID of stone throwers is adumbral at best.
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:58 am

Also let's not forget all those under administrative arrest, no charges and no limit for the time they are arrested.
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baroque
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:22 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
Transcript of the story not up yet, but no doubt it is on the podcast.

Now it is at
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3343068.htm
Yet with more than 160 Palestinian children in Israeli jails, children's rights advocates are now lobbying to have children included when the Israeli government releases the next 500 Palestinian prisoners.

Middle East correspondent Anne Barker spoke to Gerard Horton, a lawyer at Defence for Children International which represents Palestinian children in court, and asked him why he thought there were no children included in the overnight release.

GERARD HORTON: I don't entirely know but I think that list was put together by Hamas I think, and I think the focus is more on prisoners who were detained for a very long time.
......
GERARD HORTON: Plenty of people throw stones, that goes without question, but the thing is there is such a lack of due process in the system, in any individual case it's often quite difficult to know whether someone would possibly be innocent or guilty.

And to give you an example in the typical sort of case that we get, there'll be an incident of stone-throwing near a village which is situated close to a settlement and two or three days later the army will come into that village, start arresting children from a pre-prepared list, the children will be painfully tied and blindfolded, put into the back of military vehicles and taken off into the night and their parents won't be told why they've been arrested or where they're being taken to.

They'll then be taken to an interrogation centre and usually subjected to both physical and verbal abuse until they provide the confession, and in about 30 per cent of the cases we handle the confessions are actually written in Hebrew, a language they don't even understand.

Then when they get to the military court eight days later, or within eight days, that's usually the first time they see a lawyer. Prior to that, they haven't been told that they have the right to silence which they're supposed to have.
.....
GERARD HORTON: Well I think, putting aside this list, I think it would certainly be a gesture of goodwill if all of the children - all 164 - were released, whether they're included in that list or additional to that list.

And I think a strong argument in support of that is that the sheer weight and number of reports of ill-treatment, abuse and defects in the system that have been coming out for so many years now, not only from organisations like Defence for Children International but from a number of Israeli organisations that have repeatedly been publicising reports of ill-treatment in the system.


Repeat:
"a number of Israeli organisations that have repeatedly been publicising reports of ill-treatment in the system. "

This is a new generation that is being prepared..........
 
Cadet985
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:23 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
So I suppose you have an explanation that about 150 Palestinian children down to 12 years in age are in Israeli military prisons for stone throwing.

They are warned not to, and they throw stones anyway. No problem with them being in jail.

Marc
 
baroque
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:26 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
So I suppose you have an explanation that about 150 Palestinian children down to 12 years in age are in Israeli military prisons for stone throwing.

They are warned not to, and they throw stones anyway. No problem with them being in jail.

And the confessions in Hebrew?????
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 32):
And the confessions in Hebrew?????

And the administrative arrests with no court appearences and no charges?

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
No problem with them being in jail

In the USA do you jail 12-14 years old for throwing a stone? I don't think so.
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:02 pm

Gilad Shalit is also French so this is big news here. Some politicians surely will try to gain something from this, but apparently it can work for both sides (he has been made an honorary citizen of Paris some time ago, a town that is headed by the socialists and green).
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Asturias
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:55 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 26):
Well, I can see some parallels between the IDF and this definition of "terrorist". Sure plenty of others can too !

I'm sure you can. One can see parallels between apples and oranges too. It's a common, but fundamentally a logical error. Dogs have four legs. That thing there that likes milk and eats mice has four legs. Thus that thing that goes "meow" must be a dog.

Seeing some parallels don't mean diddly squat when it comes to actually laying down the actual definition of the term.

ast.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:19 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 35):
Seeing some parallels don't mean diddly squat when it comes to actually laying down the actual definition of the term.


Of course you don't see that, but shooting little children, women, using illegal ammunition in the war in Gaza, attacking civilian ships outside Israel territorial waters, Der Yassin, Quana, Bahr AlBakar etc... it is a long list is nothing but country organised acts of terror.
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TheCommodore
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 35):
Seeing some parallels don't mean diddly squat when it comes to actually laying down the actual definition of the term.

The "actual" definitions were given in the links provided.

You obviously didn't read them.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
They are warned not to, and they throw stones anyway. No problem with them being in jail.

The Israelis have be "warned" to STOP building settlements too on land that belongs to the Palestinians.

Have they done that yet ..... NO !

Then by your logic, throw all the Israelis in jail, because that where they belong...

They were warned
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 31):
They are warned not to, and they throw stones anyway. No problem with them being in jail.

Yep, that sounds like a terrorist to me. This should also be implemented in the US. Imagine a walk in the park and a mother telling her child not to throw rocks at people. The kid keeps doing it and homeland security arrests the kid and blindfolds it, no disclosure of location to the parents and off to jail. Sounds about right.   
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:09 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 38):

Honestly, what else do you expect to happen when you throw stones at people with guns and big weapons??

Israel is not quite a normal country, if i were a palestinian parent, i would not allow my kid to throw rocks, given that they could be arrested or worse.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:40 pm

Quoting N537FX (Reply 39):
Israel is not quite a normal country


So she gets a free hand to treat Palestinians the way they do and grab lands belonging to them? Sorry that should not be allowed.

And since when do you expect children 12 years old to listen to every word from there parents?
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N537FX
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:25 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 40):

I'm not saying Israel is in the right here. But as parents, they have the responsibility to protect the safety and well being of their children. Turning a blind eye to your kid when they are clearly in harms way is just bad but seems to be a common practice in the West bank. Also, if you can't control a 12 year old, thats pathetic. I'm not saying rock throwing is wrong, but certainly it is wrong for kids of a certain age to be agitating individuals with weapons (IE the IDF), when in all likely hood, they will get hurt.
 
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:54 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 40):
And since when do you expect children 12 years old to listen to every word from there parents?

Ok..kids generally don't listen to their parents. But this is a different situation. The outcome is known..throw rocks at the IDF = get arrested, or shot or worse. A 12 yo has no idea what the hell he/she is doing..they are influenced by their parents and other adults around them. If the adults are acting like total idiots, throwing rocks, firing rockets etc..then no wonder the kids pick it up. The Israelis aren't helping either..by building more settlements. Bibi needs some restraint here..time for the US/EU to step in. As a staunch Israel supporter..even I find this revolting..WTH is he thinking building more settlements?! Not gonna help with the peace process..not one bit.
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Cadet985
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
The Israelis have be "warned" to STOP building settlements too on land that belongs to the Palestinians.

It does NOT belong to the Palestinians until a treaty is signed formally handing it over. Additionally, there is no such place as Palestine. The West Bank was part of Jordan, and Gaza, part of Egypt until Israel captured these in 1967. Now I guess by your logic, that the US should give most of the American Southwest back to Mexico.

Marc
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:58 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 43):
It does NOT belong to the Palestinians until a treaty is signed formally handing it over.

Ahhhhh, So that's the reason why Israel continues to build.....

No treaty, just more settlements.

Sounds fair to you ?

Not by a long shot.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 43):
Additionally, there is no such place as Palestine. The West Bank was part of Jordan, and Gaza, part of Egypt until Israel captured these in 1967.

Oh come on !

So where the hell are the Palestinians supposed to live then ?

It is well understood that this land is for the Palestinians future, for a Palestinian state, and it will to one day.

Israel knows this only too well, that's why they have just been through one of their biggest diplomatic missions to date, the lobbying of nearly every member nation, in order that the Palestinian bid for statehood should fail.

Israels tactics are becoming increasingly clear. But they payed a heavy price over the last few days, with Shalit being released, a big price, In fact, Even more so when you realise that these were exactly the terms Hamas demanded five years ago when Shalit was seized. Five years of captivity and yet Israel has gained no better a deal than if it had acceded at the outset.

Israel is worried, very worried. It is about time they decide on peace and work hard to achieve it

Remember change is happening, Israel no longer enjoys the unquestioning support it used to from the west these days.

Maybe Israel will be forced eventually to accept change, once the rest of the world demands it .
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
lewis
Posts: 3565
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:21 pm

Quoting N537FX (Reply 39):
Honestly, what else do you expect to happen when you throw stones at people with guns and big weapons??

Honestly, going to jail without a trial and the parents not being notified of the location where the children are taken is not what I expect.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 43):
It does NOT belong to the Palestinians until a treaty is signed formally handing it over.

And there will be nothing left for when (if ever) a treaty is signed.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:57 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
Quoting Asturias (Reply 35):
Seeing some parallels don't mean diddly squat when it comes to actually laying down the actual definition of the term.

The "actual" definitions were given in the links provided.

You obviously didn't read them.

Yes but you better see and read every link he has added in favour of the occupier, and those posted in favour of Palestine will be called "propaganda" which he wont see, just like the ones he supports he cant stand to be just and fair and balanced, in his mind its already decided the Arabs/Muslims are the ones that are at fault.

[Edited 2011-10-21 05:08:44]
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:45 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):

The "actual" definitions were given in the links provided.

You obviously didn't read them.

You obviously don't understand them. I know the definition of terrorsm, in fact it's quite correct in pretty much all dictionary references.

You're claim that the IDF is a terrorist organization or commits acts of terrorism doesn't fulfill any such definition - in fact it's quite disingenuous to even imply that there are similarities.

At least your claim that you saw "similarities" was just biased and factually incorrect, but now you've resorted to bald face lying. Good job!

Checking any definition of terrorism sinks your claim faster than you can spout hatred at Israel.

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):
Yes but you better see and read every link he has added in favour of the occupier, and those posted in favour of Palestine will be called "propaganda" which he wont see, just like the ones he supports he cant stand to be just and fair and balanced, in his mind its already decided the Arabs/Muslims are the ones that are at fault.

Such hyperbole.

Claiming the IDF commits terrorism is just plain lying and willfully ignores that the only ones guilty of *any* terrorism in this particular conflict are the Palestinians and their supporters. The Israelis have every right to defend themselves, even when the Palestinians cowards send their children to become martyrs.

asturias
Tonight we fly
 
Quokka
Posts: 1315
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:26 pm

RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 47):
even when the Palestinians cowards send their children to become martyrs.

Such hyperbole. Meanwhile, those who shoot dead school girls fetching the milk are such heroes. I almost melt at the thought of how brave they are.

Kicking people out of their houses and bulldozing their olive trees also take great courage. Driving over and killing an American observer also shows extreme valour. A young woman watching and recording events is obviously a terrorist and only the bravest of people could be expected to deal with such a threat to the civilised world.

See, I can engage in hyperbole just as well as the next person. Meanwhile, how does any of this pointing fingers and apportioning blame help? Not one bit. You can point to this and I can point to that, but nothing is resolved. A resolution of the conflict will only come if both sides are willing to sit down and negotiate. If Israel does not wish to halt expansionist settlements, they can hardly demand preconditions from the Plaestinain side. So long as Israel demands recognition as a "Jewish State" and no right of return to Palestinians then they can hardly protest at a call to cease the dispossession of Palestinians through clearances and settlements.

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):
his mind its already decided the Arabs/Muslims are the ones that are at fault.

Exactly on cue, as predicted.

The only heartening comment I heard came from Shalit himself when he stated that he hoped that his release could lead to a new dialogue and buidling a peaceful solution.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: Gilad Shalit Soon To BE Released?

Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting Quokka (Reply 48):
See, I can engage in hyperbole just as well as the next person.

Indeed you can, and you can also miss the point as easily as engage in hyperbole it seems.

Again; hybperbole:

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):
Yes but you better see and read every link he has added in favour of the occupier, and those posted in favour of Palestine will be called "propaganda" which he wont see, just like the ones he supports he cant stand to be just and fair and balanced, in his mind its already decided the Arabs/Muslims are the ones that are at fault.

Not hyperbole, since it is qualified:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 47):
The Israelis have every right to defend themselves, even when the Palestinians cowards send their children to become martyrs.

More hyperbole:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 48):
Kicking people out of their houses and bulldozing their olive trees also take great courage. Driving over and killing an American observer also shows extreme valour. A young woman watching and recording events is obviously a terrorist and only the bravest of people could be expected to deal with such a threat to the civilised world.

And finally...

Quoting Quokka (Reply 48):
Exactly on cue, as predicted.

... completely missing the point.

I was astonished myself when I heard about the american activist (or "observer" if one wants to be disingenuous) was killed by being driven over - but then I read how she ran in front of a bulldozer so the driver couldn't even see her and realized she must have bought into the martyr propaganda that the people she had been living with had fed her.

She was no martyr in the end, just a Darwing award nominee.

As for the rest, terrorists can't exist without grassroot support. From normal people harboring, protecting, supporting, nurturing and cheering them on. It may not take great bravery to bulldoze and evict such supporters, but it is necessary for the safety and security of Israeli citizens against Palestinian arab terrorists.

I don't like it, but what can you do?

asturias
Tonight we fly

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