BN747
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Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:50 pm

Not good news for all those who had sworn that O had lost considerable Latino support...


Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012, GOP Faces Backlash On Immigration

Link here

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama still holds significant leads among likely Latino voters over Republican candidates for the 2012 election, partially because most Latinos don't know or don't like the GOP field, according to a Univision-Latino Decisions poll released Tuesday.

The Republican candidates have little name recognition among Latino voters, with a majority of those voters saying they had never heard of frontrunner Herman Cain. (Granted, this poll was taken between Oct. 21 and Nov. 1 -- and the first story reporting sexual harassment claims against Cain came out Oct. 31.)

Rick Perry has the highest name recognition but also the highest negative ratings, despite being hammered for some pro-immigrant policies that he pursued as governor of Texas. The poll found that about 22 percent of likely Latino voters hold low opinions of Perry.

There had been some speculation that Perry's support of a law that allowed undocumented young people to attend Texas state colleges at in-state tuition rates, provided they had completed three years of high school in the United States, could help him attract more Latino voters than other GOP candidates. But the poll results debunked that theory.



..it was pretty clear to me. And then there was the talk of Marco Rubio, now an embarrassment to himself and exposed as a fraud with his jacked up 'I'm a Cuban Refugee' story...

I really don't think the brainstorm Herman Cain electric fence idea (if you can call that an idea), I instantly thought of Jörg Haider when Cain came up with that gem...very antagonizing to the Latino community and it should have offensive to any decent American or human being.

BN747
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:58 pm

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
There had been some speculation that Perry's support of a law that allowed undocumented young people to attend Texas state colleges at in-state tuition rates, provided they had completed three years of high school in the United States, could help him attract more Latino voters than other GOP candidates. But the poll results debunked that theory.

As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):

I really don't think the brainstorm Herman Cain electric fence idea (if you can call that an idea), I instantly thought of Jörg Haider when Cain came up with that gem...very antagonizing to the Latino community and it should have offensive to any decent American or human being.

So I suppose you would not approve of my idea of stocking the Rio Grande with Piranhas...
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AR385
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:14 pm

Latin Americans in the US don´t read the newspapers, obviously, because if they did the would know:

1) They fare better with Republicans in the Presidency
2) Never in the history of the US have so many people been deported in one administration as it´s happened during the Obama one.

Hardly conducive IF THEY KNEW THE FACTS, to vote for another Obama administration.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):

Hardly conducive IF THEY KNEW THE FACTS, to vote for another Obama administration.

If those were the facts, then Dreadnought would be supporting Obama...

Facts? Its all about perception..
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:26 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 3):
Facts? Its all about perception..

I will concede that my first point may be about perception. However, most left and right wing analysts in Latin America-US relations agree on that point. Remember it was Bush (as many faults as he may have on other fronts), who was for some sort of amnesty for illegals, for example.

My second point is a fact.
 
BN747
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:59 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
emember it was Bush (as many faults as he may have on other fronts), who was for some sort of amnesty for illegals, for example.

Carter did it before Bush...

I think many people are aware that Obama wants to do this as well, but in this political climate .. I'd be instant suicide. So he'll most likely do it in his 1st year of his next term. The Repubs will raise holy hell all the way til 2016 which will costly them the latino vote...again.

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flymia
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:40 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):
2) Never in the history of the US have so many people been deported in one administration as it´s happened during the Obama one.

True, however unless you committed of a crime you do not have much to worry about. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/...s-drop-in-immigration-enforcement/ Of course criminals have to be the first to go, but actual immigration control has not been up. These are people who have been arrested for crimes.
Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
The Republican candidates have little name recognition among Latino voters, with a majority of those voters saying they had never heard of frontrunner Herman Cain.
Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
Univision-Latino

See the two. The Hispanic media does not follow much of the GOP. Hispanic media is a joke. Probably more basis than MSNBC, Watching the NBC debate now their basis is ridiculous with the questions they ask.
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BN747
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
The Hispanic media does not follow much of the GOP

You couldn't be more wrong.. watch Telemundo's En Contexto or 11'O'Clock news broadcast tonite and each night this week .. GOPstories it will be lead or close to it and it's coverage is far more in depth than any US msm broadcast. There is constant commentary before, during and after all debates. Joe , AZ Immigration activity (and now Alabama) are featured almost nightly - and not in a good way. I'm no big watcher of Univision, but Telemundo has done a laser like effective job of targeting the GOP as enemy of latino causes. I've pointed this out in the debate threads.. if the GOP wants to win back any sizeable Latino support, they'll have to pander big and get Telemundo or Univision to hammer on their 'pandering act' nighly for about 6 months for it to stick - because since the GOP campaign launch..that's what's been happening over Hispanic media. When the crowd cheered Cain's electric fence stupidity...and the crowd cheered.. it was played over and over again and trashed by Telemundo and invited commentators...I don't think many GOP strategist are realizing how damaging these broadcast have been nor realize the implications.

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Hispanic media is a joke.

And GOP is treating it as such and it is costing them big while they're completely unaware what is occurring.

Were I a GOP strategist...I'd be 'off the charts alarmed' and drilling inroads right now to try and undo the damage that has been done. And I'm sure some latino GOP strategist is doing this at this very moment .. but they have him or her on 'mute'..

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einsteinboricua
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:13 am

The GOP can always count on the vote of the Cubans in Florida since the GOP takes a harsh stance against Cuba. Kinda interesting seeing the double standard there, where they are not willing to give Mexicans a path to citizenship, but all Cubans are more than welcome to join their ranks.

It's also a fact that Hispanics tend to vote Democrat. If PR is made a state, you can bet that it will almost always vote for the Democrat candidate.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:37 am

Who cares? Most Latins don't vote, and the only place where the Latin vote matters - Florida (some might say New Mexico, too) - has a Latino community that sways heavily conservative. And I don't think it's much of a coincidence that the conservative-leaning Florida Latino community also is more educated and better off than other Latino communities.

The election won't be decided by women, the middle class, Latinos or any other group.

It will be decided by eight states - Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Nevada, Colorado and Pennsylvania.

[Edited 2011-11-09 20:42:18]
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
Kinda interesting seeing the double standard there, where they are not willing to ____________________, but all _______ are more than welcome to join their ranks.

Just fill in the blanks and you have so many groups for both parties. It sickens me how bad politics is getting (or at least how much more I'm noticing it!)
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AR385
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Who cares? Most Latins don't vote, and the only place where the Latin vote matters

Wrong. They vote. At least the legals do. That was the reason why the law changed in 96 or 97 here in Mexico to allow double nationality. That was so all the legal residents we have in the US, could get American citizenship and vote. Many had not become American because that would have meant they would loose their Mexican citizenship.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:45 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
The GOP can always count on the vote of the Cubans in Florida since the GOP takes a harsh stance against Cuba. Kinda interesting seeing the double standard there, where they are not willing to give Mexicans a path to citizenship, but all Cubans are more than welcome to join their ranks.

There is no double standard. Conservatives have zero issues with legal immigration. The United States offers a path of legal immigration to Mexican citizens who wish to move here. Conservatives don't oppose that whatsoever. Some even argue it should be made easier, myself included. Cuba is a special case where people are literally trapped in their home country, so an exception is made.
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:49 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Who cares? Most Latins don't vote, and the only place where the Latin vote matters

Wrong. They vote. At least the legals do. That was the reason why the law changed in 96 or 97 here in Mexico to allow double nationality. That was so all the legal residents we have in the US, could get American citizenship and vote. Many had not become American because that would have meant they would loose their Mexican citizenship.


MGGS

In 2010, a measly 30% of Latinos voted in this country. Despite making up more than 16% of the population, only 10% are registered and even fewer actually vote.

As I said, they don't vote.

Not that it's a problem exclusive to Latinos - low voter participation is a problem among all groups of people in this country, but especially prevalent among Latinos.

[Edited 2011-11-09 20:51:33]
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
As I said, they don't vote.

It´s a matter of perspective. 30% of 16% of a population that is growing very fast, with parties courting them, and with policies in certain regions being tailored for them as well as growth coming more now out of US births than of immigration is pretty significant.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Cuba is a special case where people are literally trapped in their home country, so an exception is made.

It's still illegal immigration. You can't give special treatment to one group.
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:19 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 2):
2) Never in the history of the US have so many people been deported in one administration as it´s happened during the Obama one

According to an Immigration Attorney (one of the best in SoCal) friend of mine..a good deal of the deportation cases were started under the Bush Admin, one he is handling now (it is a friend's partner - she has a deportation case on the dockets) has been in the process for 4 years now - he's confident he'll win her case.. but he had hope under Obama judges and ICE would throttle back on the lever..but no, the Bush initiated aggressive/accelerated deportation posture has been maintained in full force for whatever reason.


Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):

In 2010, a measly 30% of Latinos voted in this country. Despite making up more than 16% of the population, only 10% are registered and even fewer actually vote.

As I said, they don't vote.

You must not be aware of the state of California... few blacks, and you must think only the whites vote here...

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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:48 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Who cares? Most Latins don't vote, and the only place where the Latin vote matters - Florida (some might say New Mexico, too) - has a Latino community that sways heavily conservative.

I've heard that about Cubans, but not about the rest of Florida's Latino community.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Cuba is a special case where people are literally trapped in their home country, so an exception is made.

REALLY???? That's the explanation? Well, what about Haiti? And besides, this "special case" needs to change. But, I know it won't, because Florida is a swing state.
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:06 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):
You must not be aware of the state of California... few blacks, and you must think only the whites vote here...

I'm fully aware of California. An individual's vote in California - a state that always votes with the ignorant party - doesn't matter. Hence, the Hispanic vote in California doesn't matter. Maybe one day NorCal and LA County will smarten up and vote red like the rest of Cali, but that's far off.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 17):
I've heard that about Cubans, but not about the rest of Florida's Latino community.

Cubans represent the bulk of the community. And while Puerto Ricans and Mexicans do lean left, South Americans, like Cubans, lean right. After all, many of them came to Florida to escape leftist governments.
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:00 pm

Latinos are falling into the same trap as ALL Americans: they're becoming lazy and wallowing at the trough, demanding more government, more largesse, more pork, instead of demanding honest, smaller and limited government.

I don't see this as a demographic problem as much as I see it as a FAR larger issue: that being that we may be reaching the point where keeping our republic is impossible because of our own electorate who doesn't frankly give a shit about sustaining and restoring the greatest country the world has ever seen.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):
You must not be aware of the state of California... few blacks, and you must think only the whites vote here...

I'm fully aware of California. An individual's vote in California - a state that always votes with the ignorant party - doesn't matter. Hence, the Hispanic vote in California doesn't matter. Maybe one day NorCal and LA County will smarten up and vote red like the rest of Cali, but that's far off.

              

yeah, whatever dude...

Quoting slider (Reply 19):
Latinos are falling into the same trap as ALL Americans: they're becoming lazy and wallowing at the trough, demanding more government, more largesse, more pork, instead of demanding honest, smaller and limited government.

And please enlighten us on 'how all americans' ended up like that...


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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 17):
REALLY???? That's the explanation? Well, what about Haiti? And besides, this "special case" needs to change. But, I know it won't, because Florida is a swing state.


As long as Cuba is a communist nation. (changes are coming) And as long as the Dept of State list it as a supporter of terrorism it is not going to change, no.

Quoting slider (Reply 19):
Latinos are falling into the same trap as ALL Americans: they're becoming lazy and wallowing at the trough, demanding more government, more largesse, more pork, instead of demanding honest, smaller and limited government.

I agree. You see this often with the new Cubans who come to the US. They are very used to a communist government, they did not have to work much and honestly many of them are just lazy. Really can't blame them that is how life is there. Well many of the newer Cuban immigrants do vote democrat, more wellfare and also democrats are probably more likely to lift the embargo when the time comes.
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
And please enlighten us on 'how all americans' ended up like that...

Simple: unprecedented prosperity following WWII that has created the most complacent, materially wealthy, spoiled citizenry in the history of the world. We have it easy. We have a technologically advanced society, modern medicine, information technology that literally has made the world smaller, an unfettered access to education, travel and prosperity yet we are completely retarded and DUMBER than ever before. Never before have so many had so much and not had a true gratitude for where it came from, an appreciation for the values that built the very country we now take for granted.

it's a universal American sickness that has repeated itself throughout history...and once again we ignore history at our own peril. Juvenal was dead on in his understanding of the human condition commenting on 'panem et cricenses'....

And in more simpler terms, the number of producers is being outnumbered by the takers. Whether it's the ridiculous insanity of the Occupy movement or just normal people on the dole, we can't afford the largesse of a runaway government any longer. WE CANNOT DO IT. And yet Americans aren't all waking up to this reality. They prefer the security of shackles to the risk of operating without a net. And it's a damn shame. I know this is a blanket statement, but I'm beginning to take a more cynical view of my fellow Americans by the day.

Quoting flymia (Reply 21):
I agree. You see this often with the new Cubans who come to the US. They are very used to a communist government, they did not have to work much and honestly many of them are just lazy. Really can't blame them that is how life is there. Well many of the newer Cuban immigrants do vote democrat, more wellfare and also democrats are probably more likely to lift the embargo when the time comes.

Well, I know very few Cubanos, so I can't comment and try to avoid MIA in general as much as I can, but I can tell you that Eastern Europeans--the ones who escaped the Communist USSR iron curtain, are the people who GET IT more than my own native born Americans. They appreciate and love America and the ideals and work their asses off more than the spoiled infants who take that freedom for granted.

Latinos--they better figure it out too and open their own eyes and vote accordingly.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
The United States offers a path of legal immigration to Mexican citizens who wish to move here.

A path that is almost impossible to navigate for most Mexicans who are extremely poor.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Cubans represent the bulk of the community.

Cuban's represent only 1/3rd of Florida's Hispanic community and going forward they will represent even less as other groups are growing much faster.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
They prefer the security of shackles to the risk of operating without a net.

Hardly true. Most American's simply recognize that basic safety nets are a necessity to prevent the country from plunging into depression every time the economy has a hiccup.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
And yet Americans aren't all waking up to this reality.

I think most American's are well aware of this reality, but it's all in how you make the cuts.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:37 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
So he'll most likely do it in his 1st year of his next term.

He still needs the cooperation of Congress. That will not happen. I for one think a split government is a good thing. Enough so, I will probably vote for Obama and pray for a Republican Senate and Congress.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
It will be decided by eight states - Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Nevada, Colorado and Pennsylvania.

Yep. Of those, only Florida and Nevada have a significant Hispanic population.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
Wrong. They vote. At least the legals do.

Problem is, so do some of the illegals.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 15):
It's still illegal immigration. You can't give special treatment to one group.

Of course we can. Why not? We do all the time. They come from a repressive society who's citizens we give special status to because of their government. Mexico is a different story.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 16):
You must not be aware of the state of California... few blacks, and you must think only the whites vote here...

And you know that California votes one way and one way only in federal elections. Latino pandering or not, it doesn't matter.
 
AR385
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 24):
Problem is, so do some of the illegals.

Right you are, but that is not their problem. They are either coerced and manipulated by radical left-wing groups with their own agendas or (I believe) they are actually allowed by law to vote in some places.

Just as I don´t understand how in (California is it?) they passed a law that allows aliens to go to State University almost for free. While laws in Arizona and Alabama are on the opposite side of the spectrum and are borderline discriminatory, laws like California´s frankly don´t make sense.

I cannot fathom why some places in the US will pass a law that allow illegal aliens to vote, or to go to State Univesity for free, but as I said, the way US internal politics are conducted, is not the illegals´ problem (in those issues at least). As long as they are benefitted in the end, they should keep quiet and laugh all the way to University and the polls.

[Edited 2011-11-14 11:58:12]
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:06 am

Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
I really don't think the brainstorm Herman Cain electric fence idea (if you can call that an idea), I instantly thought of Jörg Haider when Cain came up with that gem...very antagonizing to the Latino community and it should have offensive to any decent American or human being.

An electric border fence would be wildly impractical but what is offensive about it? Nobody would touch it if they knew it was electrified so who would get bent out of shape over that? Are you saying, like too many of the Latino activists I've heard, that the very idea of a secure border is offensive and that we must allow illegal immigration from Mexico to continue unimpeded?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
I think many people are aware that Obama wants to do this as well, but in this political climate .. I'd be instant suicide. So he'll most likely do it in his 1st year of his next term. The Repubs will raise holy hell all the way til 2016 which will costly them the latino vote...again.

And you're okay with Amnesty for all the millions who broke the laws to get here, albeit lured by unscrupulous American employers? You say we must accept this scourge and just forget about the Rule Of Law? Southern California looks like a Third World nation now; large areas of no English spoken and cities across the nation are following suit as Mexicans and Central and South Americans, Chinese and others continue to stream in through our porous Southern border. Not acceptable. I'm for a fair legal immigration system based on the nations needs but this nightmare needs to be ended before the character of the entire country is wrecked. I was a loyal Democrat until I learned just how invested my party was in greasing the wheels for illegals in every way, shape and form. It was an abject betrayal of the citizens they took an oath to protect. Plenty in the GOP are complicit too but I rail against your suggestion that politicians must pander to illegal aliens to get the Latino vote; that implies most Latino voters favor illegal immigration and no border security and I rather doubt that. The Spanish media polls are likely skewed by activist journalists within the network ranks like Jorge Ramos, a frequent proponent of illegal immigrant activism.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting slider (Reply 22):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
And please enlighten us on 'how all americans' ended up like that...

Simple: unprecedented prosperity following WWII that has created the most complacent, materially wealthy, spoiled citizenry in the history of the world. We have it easy. We have a technologically advanced society, modern medicine, information technology that literally has made the world smaller, an unfettered access to education, travel and prosperity yet we are completely retarded and DUMBER than ever before. Never before have so many had so much and not had a true gratitude for where it came from, an appreciation for the values that built the very country we now take for granted.

I must agree with this general assumption, however it's a pretty wide net to cast on all Americans. I understand exactly what you mean, but not all Americans can be equally place on that scale of apathetic or lackadaisical existence. By that I mean it breaks down into social and economic circles. Let's start with lowest.

Homeless - they consist of the mentally ill, vets, former lower & middle class members of society and yes, vagabonds (who simply do not wish to work).
- this group has no evolved since the days of Bob Crachet.

Low Income Americans - probably the hardest (physical) working segment of our population.
- Their children for the most part fall squarely in the framework of your description of the New Apathetic Americans. Their kids see how hard their parents are working and figure - I'm not doing all that and still falling behind on the bills and being miserable for the rest of my life. I'm joining a gang (and get paid), of hang at the mall or watch Nascar reruns or whatever they do.

Middle Income Americans - The real backbone of the nation, is starting to realize that the American Dream, may not be what it once was or portrayed. They were taught that worked for a company for 20-30 years , then retired on the pension you earned. But no one prepared them by telling them that companies don't last that long anymore, so it more than likely you won't be working anywhere longer than 5 years. Oh and your pension, it can be gambled away on Wall Street or tossed aside in an aggressive corporate acquisition or take over. So they lose faith in the system - I mean, not everyone has what it takes to be successful small businessmen/women.

Upper Income - A stratum mainly dominated today by trust fund babies, where the only hard work they've done was their last college exam. I see more ultra-spoiled rich kids (mostly neighbors) playing the Kim Kardashian game harder than you can imagine - I'm constantly making the comment, if that poor kid ever had to get out fend for himself..he'd drown and sink like a rock in the real world'." They are the types to drive right thru a stop sign and flip you off for not letting them go 1st. And when they're caught doing anything 'it's not their fault'... their paents teach them that one..I know. 'Admit to nothing' is the rule.


..so looking at those three groups and applying the scale of Apathy and Indifference...

we have a group that says 'why try, it doesn't make a difference"...

Another that 'constantly doubts itself because of workplace uncertainty' (not urging their kids strive for better)

And the wealthy parents who make sure the kids continue their lineage.

I get the feeling, that the nation goes thru ebbs and flows of Apathy and Indifference.

In the PBS special (aired like 12-13 years ago) America 1900, it showcased what the nation was like when it transitioned from the 19th Century into the 20th Century.

Uncertainty perfectly fits the mood back then, because many saw their way of making a living was falling by the way side. Candles makers were being put out of business by this new thing called electric lighting.
Cart and (horse drawn) buggy makers were being passed over by 'the car'...

Anarchist were railing against the fast growing ranks of the rich, one even dared to assassinate President William McKinley.


I agree about the nation having it better than any society that existed before it. But future generations will have it better than us today. - and worse in some cases. Maybe the move 'In Time' sheds some like on this (it's a futuristic film where no one ages past the age of 25 years - but after that an embedded digital clock illuminates on your forearm and starts a countdown, you have 1 year left and then you die. No you can prolong this by, working and getting time added (no cash or paychecks) it's all about adding time to your existence.. you buy a cup of coffee that's 3 mins, a bus ride is 30 mins. A car cost 5 years, etc...

So a future where you can do virtual everything, jet pack around (not in the movie) watch anything in ultra 3-D, no smog problems - but you die when you turn 26.

There's always been great periods to be alive but some unnerving social ill that interrupts the peace and tranquility. The Chinese certainly thought that during the Imperial ages.

England must have thought it when India was their playground.

I think America is going through a period that if you don't latch on and keep up with what is happening, you may wake up and find yourself so far behind, you're like your grandpa is now...clueless.

Other than that, I agree.. I certainly have no answer.

As for the immigrants, legal or not.. "when in America,..."

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
it's a universal American sickness that has repeated itself throughout history...and once again we ignore history at our own peril. Juvenal was dead on in his understanding of the human condition commenting on 'panem et cricenses'....

Yep, it's a human thing...we get bored. Fast! Suddenly, a microwave is too slow.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
Whether it's the ridiculous insanity of the Occupy movement or just normal people on the dole, we can't afford the largesse of a runaway government any longer. WE CANNOT DO IT.

Agreed, but anger has to be fairly placed on corporate welfare as equally as it is applied to 'every day dolefare'

Most people can fathom and identify with the family down the block living off the gov't teat.. but nowhere near enough people are capeble of understanding the BIG Gov't rip offs of contractors, Medicare/Medicaid scams, all located in the entitlements sector of the budget. Until the day comes that that nonsense is brought under control...nothing will happen, they return each year with bigger bites than what they took the previous year.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
They prefer the security of shackles to the risk of operating without a net. And it's a damn shame. I know this is a blanket statement, but I'm beginning to take a more cynical view of my fellow Americans by the day.

I've been a gambler all my life, so no depending on anyone here... but this too is true, it's unfortunate but the only thing that I can see that will motivate them.. is to really give them reason to hope for something better. Who needs this? The groups I listed above .. - 1) Lower Income Americans and 2) Middle Income Americans.

The 3rd Group is gonna do their thing no matter what, it's sweat of their nose.. unless money suddenly have no meaning then they'll be scrambling to figure out what to do.

But again, I've no solution for this, but I do believe it is a cyclical occurrence in which nothing can be done.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 26):
Quoting BN747 (Thread starter):
I really don't think the brainstorm Herman Cain electric fence idea (if you can call that an idea), I instantly thought of Jörg Haider when Cain came up with that gem...very antagonizing to the Latino community and it should have offensive to any decent American or human being.

An electric border fence would be wildly impractical but what is offensive about it? Nobody would touch it if they knew it was electrified so who would get bent out of shape over that?

Really, that needs an answer? You do realize how barbaric that is right?

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 26):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
I think many people are aware that Obama wants to do this as well, but in this political climate .. I'd be instant suicide. So he'll most likely do it in his 1st year of his next term. The Repubs will raise holy hell all the way til 2016 which will costly them the latino vote...again.

And you're okay with Amnesty for all the millions who broke the laws to get here, albeit lured by unscrupulous American employers? You say we must accept this scourge and just forget about the Rule Of Law? Southern California looks like a Third World nation now; large areas of no English spoken and cities across the nation are following suit as Mexicans and Central and South Americans, Chinese and others continue to stream in through our porous Southern border. Not acceptable.

What part of SoCal are you talking about? It looks to same to me as it did just 20 years ago. Yes, a bit more spanish signs and such... but learning spanish helps a lot.

Besides, who's gonna do the landscaping here? American teenagers?         

I mean do we just let in enough to keep the gardens up? What?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:01 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
I must agree with this general assumption, however it's a pretty wide net to cast on all Americans.



True--and for the sake of brevity, I did paint with a (too) broad brush there. I understand your breakdown, but wouldn't just bucket it in those economic categories...I think we see this rot among all ages, colors, classes, maybe not as pervasive as I said, but it's a universal problem because it's a HUMAN problem. I believe most Americans are conservative--every poll seems to indicate this--yet it is the left that drowns the debate out with hysterics too much. And so the slide continues.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
Agreed, but anger has to be fairly placed on corporate welfare as equally as it is applied to 'every day dolefare'

No question. That's one of the similarities between the TEA Party and the Occupy idiots. But one of the few. And true conservatives absolutely understand this...not to digress, but that's one reason I don't understand why the left excoriates the Tea Party, when they're the ones who SHARE the very crony capitalism that the left wraps themselves against.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
An electric border fence would be wildly impractical but what is offensive about it? Nobody would touch it if they knew it was electrified so who would get bent out of shape over that?
Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
Really, that needs an answer? You do realize how barbaric that is right?

As I said, nobody would touch it if they knew it was lethal. And if they did, too bad. Instead of misdirecting compassion to the hordes of interlopers invading our nation, save it for the borderarea landowners whose property is trashed, whose livestock and watchdogs are often slaughtered and who are often themselves threatened by transient illegal immigrants. However, as I also said, an electrified fence would be highly impractical and massively costly, possibly prohibitively so. But we'd better damn well get some kind of fence and boots to patrol on that border, pronto.

http://borderinvasionpics.com/index.html#FeaturedTop

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
What part of SoCal are you talking about? It looks to same to me as it did just 20 years ago. Yes, a bit more spanish signs and such... but learning spanish helps a lot.

Besides, who's gonna do the landscaping here? American teenagers?

I mean do we just let in enough to keep the gardens up? What?

Take a look at what massive importation of Latino "culture" has done to southern L.A. Are you okay with dogfighting and cockfighting, too and the disposal of resulting dead animals all over neighborhoods, not to mention gangs?

http://www.lajourno.com/topics/south-los-angeles/

http://www.streetgangs.com/hispanic/18thstreet

And what it costs the state as a whole: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigr...tionnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageNavigator/facts/state_data_CA

Yes, a lot of black AND Latino AMERICAN teenagers WILL do landscaping as opposed to having no job prospects. Unemployment among minority youth is extremely high, partly because illegals have taken so many low-end jobs, often hired illegally at below minimum wage. I'm okay with regulated guest worker programs for agriculture but broad blatantly illegal hiring of undocumenteds must end because it's taking those low-end jobs away from many largely minority citizens. We've over 7 million illegal aliens working in this country right now; are they more deserving of these jobs than poor citizens? Sure, businesses have to pay citizens somewhat more and maybe we need to pay a bit more for our goods but if all these illegals stay here, we end up paying many tens of billions nationally for E.R. healthcare and educating their kids or incarcerating the ones who commit mayhem.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fairfede...on?feature=mhee#p/u/10/H8lLU7XjcWc

The tone of your answer says you don't take this HUGE national issue seriously and that's a big mistake. It's a big problem, a REALLY big problem! The sovereignty and character of the nation itself is at stake if we can't control our borders and LEGALLY admit ONLY the number of immigrants the economy needs, as opposed to unrestricted numbers constantly flowing in. Don't make a joke about it; it's definitely NO laughing matter. And for you to suggest that the GOP and its presidential candidates need to pander to those vocal minorities that advocate the continued invasion instead of pledging to concerned citizens like me to fix the problem is both disgraceful and indefensible.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:07 am

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
What part of SoCal are you talking about? It looks to same to me as it did just 20 years ago. Yes, a bit more spanish signs and such... but learning spanish helps a lot.

Besides, who's gonna do the landscaping here? American teenagers?

I mean do we just let in enough to keep the gardens up? What?

Take a look at what massive importation of Latino "culture" has done to southern L.A. Are you okay with dogfighting and cockfighting, too and the disposal of resulting dead animals all over neighborhoods, not to mention gangs?

Gangs are not new to America because of Latino influence, what do you think Meyer Lansky, Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, the Gambino family, Jesse James, White Supremacist groups, the KKK etc are/were?

They were gangs, infact some of them so big, they practically ran or intimidated police forces. So that's a bogus claim.
If the illegal Latinos weren't here, we'd still have the latino gangs, Vietnamese gangs, Armenian gangs, Russian Gangs, etc...

your point there is moot.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29):
Yes, a lot of black AND Latino AMERICAN teenagers WILL do landscaping as opposed to having no job prospects.

Ummm NO, no they will not. You're incredibly out of touch with many of these young minorities, particularly out here in SoCal.

..and neither will the white kids.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29):
I'm okay with regulated guest worker programs for agriculture but broad blatantly illegal hiring of undocumenteds must end because it's taking those low-end jobs away from many largely minority citizens.

You support the importation of labor under terms you favor, to be fair you must then support export of US jobs, since you support imported labor that you also have said takes away from unemployed Americans. (Feels like I'm talking to Herman Cain here).

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
An electric border fence would be wildly impractical but what is offensive about it? Nobody would touch it if they knew it was electrified so who would get bent out of shape over that?
Quoting BN747 (Reply 27):
Really, that needs an answer? You do realize how barbaric that is right?

As I said, nobody would touch it if they knew it was lethal. And if they did, too bad

'Too bad'.. that's the element about extreme Right-wingers that causes me to detest them. They can 'on a whim' summarily render someone, a group of people as useless and 'worth of death' with something like 'too bad' (and not have a second thought about the issue) over something as simple/trivial as trying to escape the misery of their country. That tells me two things..

1) The same mindset will easily turn on another group as soon as they are advertised as 'a problem'.

2) This type of thinking is born out of fear that 'someone is gonna take what they have..' aka Greed.

The 'too bad' thing is enough to suggest there's no room for discussion with someone who thinks like this.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:42 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 30):
Gangs are not new to America because of Latino influence, what do you think Meyer Lansky, Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, the Gambino family, Jesse James, White Supremacist groups, the KKK etc are/were?

They were gangs, infact some of them so big, they practically ran or intimidated police forces. So that's a bogus claim.
If the illegal Latinos weren't here, we'd still have the latino gangs, Vietnamese gangs, Armenian gangs, Russian Gangs, etc...

Yep, the KKK and the Italian mob were all about carjackings, assault, and murder.

The KKK was about racism -- and never reared its ugly head in major cities outside of the South since the 1960s. The Italian mob is about making money without going into territories where they had no influences because they don't want to receive the ire of the cops.

I, personally, as a New Yorker, would think twice about moving to the Los Angeles area. It's simply gang infested by mostly Latin American and Mexican gangs -- and they'll kill you over anything. They have no borders. It's, "You see a white guy, you pull a pistol." They can simply run over the border to Mexico. My 1992 Lexus is worth $500. That is more than they make pushing crack to their 13 year old offspring in a year.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:36 am

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
I, personally, as a New Yorker, would think twice about moving to the Los Angeles area. It's simply gang infested by mostly Latin American and Mexican gangs -- and they'll kill you over anything. They have no borders.

I, personally, as a resident of Los Angeles, am glad to hear it. We don't need any additional traffic. Thank you in advance for holding on to your ridiculous and uninformed views and for staying where you are.

As a former New Yorker, I hope you move somewhere else rather soon.

[Edited 2011-11-15 22:39:53]
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:48 am

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
Yep, the KKK and the Italian mob were all about carjackings, assault, and murder.

The KKK was about racism -- and never reared its ugly head in major cities outside of the South since the 1960s.

Hmmm someone failed History or never saw Birth of A Nation or its after effects, after that movie was released and President Woodrow Wilson upon viewing it.. proclaimed 'It's like writing history with lightening?"

The effects of that film was the greatest KKK recruitment tool ever, swelling it's ranks into the millions and launching marches and rallies in nearly every major city in America!

And yes, there have been KKK activity well beyond the 1960..feel free to get an update from the Southern Poverty Law Center's website.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
The Italian mob is about making money without going into territories where they had no influences because they don't want to receive the ire of the cops.

Now this what I like about uber conservatives...

... they'll call the Italian Mafia and Tony Soprano-types 'are about making money'... but they'll call Jesse Jackson an extortionist.

talk about extorted views!

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
I, personally, as a New Yorker, would think twice about moving to the Los Angeles area.

..and I as an American how knows NYC as well as I know Los Angeles am assured you know practically nothing about the LA area except maybe the parts of town that scare you (and you've only read about) but have never been. It's fine you wouldn't move here, what makes cities great are people there with positive and upbeat attitudes - Orange County and Riverside where all the 'super conservative' types dwell is certainly more suitable to your ideological taste.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
It's simply gang infested by mostly Latin American and Mexican gangs -- and they'll kill you over anything.

           


I guess I won't be bumping into you on any of my quick jaunts down to Mexico City anytime soon... that city must relaly scare the wizz out of you.

Yeah, LA is 'gang infested by mostly Latin American and Mexican gangs looking to kill anyone' ... is the reason why many of America's most famous and wealthiest individuals live here... we're all lining up for our chance to dodge bullets.

Wow..that's some take you have there..I'd thought by now your buddy AA61Hvy had enlightened you a bit by now.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
They have no borders. It's, "You see a white guy, you pull a pistol." They can simply run over the border to Mexico.

Oh god... thsi just gets funnier by the second..

..and white guy American goes to Mexico kills his spouse/gf and runs back here blaming it on the Mexicans...

But seriously please spread that idea you have of Latinos here in SoCal to all your conservative friends, it'll keep most of the best parts of California - for the cool peeps (and blue).

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 31):
My 1992 Lexus is worth $500. That is more than they make pushing crack to their 13 year old offspring in a year.

Happy for you and your 1992 Lexus...

Jeezz...racist much? Cletis, the slack-jawed Yokel couldn't have said that better.

No one I know from NYC would believe you actually live there if they read this, you can't possibly be a Manhattanite with that line of vision & thinking. Share with us all the stereotypes you trumpet about other New Yorkers such as the Pakistanis, Haitians, Dominicans, Boricuas, Colombians, Ghanians, Nigerians, Koreans, Chinese, etc..

..looking forward to an interesting read...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:51 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 30):
Gangs are not new to America because of Latino influence, what do you think Meyer Lansky, Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, the Gambino family, Jesse James, White Supremacist groups, the KKK etc are/were?

They were gangs, infact some of them so big, they practically ran or intimidated police forces. So that's a bogus claim.
If the illegal Latinos weren't here, we'd still have the latino gangs, Vietnamese gangs, Armenian gangs, Russian Gangs, etc...

your point there is moot.

Foreign gangs from Central America and drug gangs from Mexico add mightily to the indigenous gangs already here. Haven't you been following the steep ramp up in Mexican drug cartel activity both below AND above the border?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 30):


[quote=BN747,reply=30]Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29):
Yes, a lot of black AND Latino AMERICAN teenagers WILL do landscaping as opposed to having no job prospects.

Ummm NO, no they will not. You're incredibly out of touch with many of these young minorities, particularly out here in SoCal.

..and neither will the white kids.

White kids generally won't but a lot of black youth here in NJ would line up for these opportunities instead of being totally out of work. I've talked to a number of them and hear their stories and I see no reason Latino youth wouldn't feel the same. Seems you may be out of touch.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 30):
You support the importation of labor under terms you favor, to be fair you must then support export of US jobs, since you support imported labor that you also have said takes away from unemployed Americans. (Feels like I'm talking to Herman Cain here).

A faulty assumption. Agriculture is a specific area hard to fill with citizen labor because the pay is far too low. For that specific industry only, a rigidly regulated guest worker program makes sense.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
Too bad'.. that's the element about extreme Right-wingers that causes me to detest them. They can 'on a whim' summarily render someone, a group of people as useless and 'worth of death' with something like 'too bad' (and not have a second thought about the issue) over something as simple/trivial as trying to escape the misery of their country. That tells me two things..

1) The same mindset will easily turn on another group as soon as they are advertised as 'a problem'.

2) This type of thinking is born out of fear that 'someone is gonna take what they have..' aka Greed.

The 'too bad' thing is enough to suggest there's no room for discussion with someone who thinks like this.

And I've no sympathy for liberal idiots who put the welfare of foreign interlopers above that of their own countrymen. To dismiss the several hundred Americans murdered or otherwise brutalized by criminal illegal aliens is crass idealogy of the sort displayed by our President, a man who openly mocked concerns about border security in El Paso a few months ago.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
And yes, there have been KKK activity well beyond the 1960..feel free to get an update from the Southern Poverty Law Center's website.

The KKK, Stormfront and the like are still out there but largely irrelevant in the here and now. In the Southwest, you now have the Brown Berets who confront patriots with the argument that the U.S. stole its land from Mexico back in 1848. There are a number of Reconquista oriented groups who hold the mentality that their Atzlan homeland will be reclaimed from current U.S. territory. If you're in SoCal, you must be aware of this. And the Southern Poverty Law Center is a biased Left Wing smear group that highlights ONLY white hate groups and conveniently ignores other ethnicities groups, like The New Black Panter Party and the Brown Berets and their ilk, showing an anti-white bias.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:41 pm

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
The KKK, Stormfront and the like are still out there but largely irrelevant in the here and now. In the Southwest, you now have the Brown Berets who confront patriots with the argument that the U.S. stole its land from Mexico back in 1848. There are a number of Reconquista oriented groups who hold the mentality that their Atzlan homeland will be reclaimed from current U.S. territory. If you're in SoCal, you must be aware of this. And the Southern Poverty Law Center is a biased Left Wing smear group that highlights ONLY white hate groups and conveniently ignores other ethnicities groups, like The New Black Panter Party and the Brown Berets and their ilk, showing an anti-white bias.

Dont' forget "La Raza"....
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:50 am

Quoting slider (Reply 35):
Dont' forget "La Raza"....

Of course, the National Council Of LaRaza ("The Race") also advocates the downfall of us "gringos" but more subtly than the avowed Reconquista crowd. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2259903/posts

I've no problem with Latinos and other ethnicities who follow our laws to come here, embrace this country, learn our language and assimilate into our culture. But we've now a very large and growing contingent of them who don't want to do those things because they're not overtly required to or even encouraged to. They're creating their own cultural enclaves and refusing to learn English, though to succeed in any sort of career, they'd need to. We've made it so easy for them to come here via lack of enforcement of our laws, they're not compelled to conform to our societal standards. Unscrupulous businesses are most at fault by illegally exploiting them for sub-minimum wages but our politicians are also complicit for purposely undermining law enforcement for political gain. Many politicians have long been saying we must have "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" but we've had it before in 1965 http://www.cis.org/NYT_immigration_coverage and 1986 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/12/washington/12immig.html and all the promises fell flat and created big problems. And Washington has had decades to truly secure the border but has never gone the distance to do it. Why should we trust them now with a new "reform" plan when all they've done before is punted; putting off real solutions to appease the U.S. Chamber Of Commerce, agribusiness and unscrupulous employers. All that cheap labor costs us taxpayers dearly, however and I believe that $113 billion annual cost of illegal immigrants as quoted by FAIR is probably very much a lowball. That's why I rail on those who pooh-pooh this crisis.
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:18 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
..and I as an American how knows NYC as well as I know Los Angeles am assured you know practically nothing about the LA area except maybe the parts of town that scare you (and you've only read about) but have never been. It's fine you wouldn't move here, what makes cities great are people there with positive and upbeat attitudes - Orange County and Riverside where all the 'super conservative' types dwell is certainly more suitable to your ideological taste.

LA is the only place I've ever been that has to put barbed wire on their elevated freeway signs to keep people from tagging them. I think there might be a bit of a gang problem there, but hey, stick to your narrative. Don't come crying to the forum after a 14-year old Salvadoran thug shoves a gun to your head demanding your Chrysler and your wallet.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):

Foreign gangs from Central America and drug gangs from Mexico add mightily to the indigenous gangs already here. Haven't you been following the steep ramp up in Mexican drug cartel activity both below AND above the border?

The foreign latino gangs that here are quite limited if registering on the radar at all. Local latino gangs aren't going to tolerate Salvis or any other outside latino influence on their turf or community, they may very well be useful to joining US latino gangs but they cannot function apart from the latino gangs already in place...very difficult to achieve.

And who isn't aware of the Mexican Cartel calamities across the border. But drug demand here by US citizens is the primary component fueling that war. They're already combating Mexican officials..they don't want to tangle with predator drones..it won't be coming here anywhere close to what's occurring across the border.

Sure we have some border skirmishes, but our citizens have been going across the border beating up and killing Mexican hookers for how long now? How many Americans cross the border to have sex with underage Mexican kids? Thousands! If Mexican adults were coming here to do that..we'd have invaded the place by now. So that's a bogus concern in the wider scope of current events.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
White kids generally won't but a lot of black youth here in NJ would line up for these opportunities instead of being totally out of work. I've talked to a number of them and hear their stories and I see no reason Latino youth wouldn't feel the same. Seems you may be out of touch.

Maybe in New Jersey these kids you speak up will do the jobs low paying latinos will do.. but not here in California as well as many other states, there's recent documentary called Mississippi Poultry or something similar..it featured owners of Poultry farms and other industries across the South were the owners complain that local people simply won't do the work that the latinos do and how 'lazy' the American's are.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
A faulty assumption. Agriculture is a specific area hard to fill with citizen labor because the pay is far too low. For that specific industry only, a rigidly regulated guest worker program makes sense.

So here you endorse it..and here below..

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 36):
All that cheap labor costs us taxpayers dearly, however and I believe that $113 billion annual cost of illegal immigrants as quoted by FAIR is probably very much a lowball.

...you bitch about it, can't have it both ways fella.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
Too bad'.. that's the element about extreme Right-wingers that causes me to detest them. They can 'on a whim' summarily render someone, a group of people as useless and 'worth of death' with something like 'too bad' (and not have a second thought about the issue) over something as simple/trivial as trying to escape the misery of their country. That tells me two things..

1) The same mindset will easily turn on another group as soon as they are advertised as 'a problem'.

2) This type of thinking is born out of fear that 'someone is gonna take what they have..' aka Greed.

The 'too bad' thing is enough to suggest there's no room for discussion with someone who thinks like this.

And I've no sympathy for liberal idiots who put the welfare of foreign interlopers above that of their own countrymen.

I don't know who exactly you're calling idiotic, but it better not be me.
And I see no example of anyone placing foreign welfare above our own. I do see hypocrisy here as in some European nation claimed any American caught here illegal could end up in jailed or be killed, you wouldn't be ok with that...or you were ok with it, then retaliated with harsher counter-measures, then they up it..then we up it, and on and on...that's what type of thinking you are promoting a vicious cycle of escalation.




Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
To dismiss the several hundred Americans murdered or otherwise brutalized by criminal illegal aliens is crass idealogy of the sort displayed by our President, a man who openly mocked concerns about border security in El Paso a few months ago.

What difference is it really if you're killed by an American vs a undocumented person? I'm sure your corpse won't know the difference, I don't know what the stats are but the number of deaths by illegal entrants compared to those by 'American' killers has to be less than 1%..far less. In other words, nothing worth getting bent out of shape about. No question that their are gangs of thugs sneaking across the border committing crimes and running back..but with increased surveillance..it too will be brought under control. The US has 3 choices - two really, 1 & 2 are the virtually same
do nothing or let Mexico go from being a desperate nation to and even more desperate criminal nation cranking out more criminals to try and deal with. Or help the nation become more like Canada as a safer nation. Either way, US dollars will continue to flow their way..take your pick. No wall will make the problem go away..that's false security.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 33):
And yes, there have been KKK activity well beyond the 1960..feel free to get an update from the Southern Poverty Law Center's website.

The KKK, Stormfront and the like are still out there but largely irrelevant in the here and now. In the Southwest, you now have the Brown Berets who confront patriots with the argument that the U.S. stole its land from Mexico back in 1848.

They are just as irrelevant if that's all they've got.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
There are a number of Reconquista oriented groups who hold the mentality that their Atzlan homeland will be reclaimed from current U.S. territory. If you're in SoCal, you must be aware of this.

Just as irrelevant.

That is..if the KKK & Stormfront is irrelevant...which they aren't.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 34):
And the Southern Poverty Law Center is a biased Left Wing smear group that highlights ONLY white hate groups and conveniently ignores other ethnicities groups, like The New Black Panter Party and the Brown Berets and their ilk, showing an anti-white bias.

It is an organization that monitors hate groups, activity and growth patterns. Obviously something you don't like.

Care to stand those groups side-by-side and compare those groups and see who as the longest most violent history in America...by a galactic mile? The history of white supremacist activity , they has done far more harm thant all these groups put together! Today a ruling handed down on one who was 14 when he killed a gay kid in Ventura County. They are far from irrelevant, they are still breeding hatred and violence at rates far out pacing any of the groups any of you have listed..and here you 3 are..ignoring it and trying convince others that they are harmless! Where do you guys get this stuff?

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 37):
LA is the only place I've ever been that has to put barbed wire on their elevated freeway signs to keep people from tagging them.

What?

What on earth?

So maybe NYC should put barbed wire up around every building to stop the tagging of buildings...the whole NYC would look like Rykers Island. How dumb would that be..and we know NYC has LA beat when i comes to tagging building.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 37):
. Don't come crying to the forum after a 14-year old Salvadoran thug shoves a gun to your head demanding your Chrysler and our wallet.

What on earth makes you think I'd come crying to this site were I to be held up at gunpoint? I have pitched in my advice to guys with chick problems, computer probs, even aviation matters..but I don't ever see me discussing any 'personal' issues here ever. Esp. something of that magnitude! Too many enemies here would get off on it if I did..sooo not a chance. And neither of my cars are Chryslers (thank god) and never will be, but I'd wager you anything living in NYC and subway'ing it..the odds are more that a young Salvi (or some other thug) will jack you long before I have that problem here.

I'm just wondering, do you fellas worry equally as much about white criminal attacks? I mean they are more prominent in the news with mall shootings, office shootings and meth-head jackings? Or do you fellas think it doesn't exist or you're immune to it? You're more likely to jacked by American by far before being assailed by an undocumented person..check the numbers, it's real and it's all there. Would being victimized by an fellow American make you feel better?


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

The foreign latino gangs that here are quite limited if registering on the radar at all. Local latino gangs aren't going to tolerate Salvis or any other outside latino influence on their turf or community, they may very well be useful to joining US latino gangs but they cannot function apart from the latino gangs already in place...very difficult to achieve.

And who isn't aware of the Mexican Cartel calamities across the border. But drug demand here by US citizens is the primary component fueling that war. They're already combating Mexican officials..they don't want to tangle with predator drones..it won't be coming here anywhere close to what's occurring across the border.

Sure we have some border skirmishes, but our citizens have been going across the border beating up and killing Mexican hookers for how long now? How many Americans cross the border to have sex with underage Mexican kids? Thousands! If Mexican adults were coming here to do that..we'd have invaded the place by now. So that's a bogus concern in the wider scope of current events.

The primary component fueling the drug war in Mexico is not drug demand from the US, but the systematic corruption that is engrained in Mexico. The astonishing level of violence there is cultural, not a result of the US.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

Maybe in New Jersey these kids you speak up will do the jobs low paying latinos will do.. but not here in California as well as many other states, there's recent documentary called Mississippi Poultry or something similar..it featured owners of Poultry farms and other industries across the South were the owners complain that local people simply won't do the work that the latinos do and how 'lazy' the American's are.

Pay them, and they will come.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

Just as irrelevant.

That is..if the KKK & Stormfront is irrelevant...which they aren't.

If there was a white group called "The Race" instead of a Latino group named "La Raza", it would be crucified immediately.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting ual777 (Reply 39):
The primary component fueling the drug war in Mexico is not drug demand from the US, but the systematic corruption that is engrained in Mexico. The astonishing level of violence there is cultural, not a result of the US.

I have tried to avoid entering this thread as it is the usual one we get once in a while that mixes Xenophobism, racism and the usual crap. However, your comment, is just naive, and that´s me being polite.

Are you a Cultural Anthropologist? a Historian? Some kind of Social Scientist? How can you say, and please provide a source if you can, that the "astonishing level of violence there is cultural?"

The US is the biggest market for drugs in the entire planet. Billions of dollars are there for profit to whomever supports that market. It used to be Colombia. Now it is Mexico. Are you saying that the level of violence in Colombia during the 90s was because it was a a cultural thing? So then the level of violence seen in Colombia back then was cultural too?

Unless you and your countrymen find a way to curb the insatiable demand for illegal drugs your country has, when we are done with the Cartels here in Mexico, and we are close to achieving that goal, some other country or countries will pick the job. (hint, hint, think Central America)

Central America is being overrun these days by the Cartels setting up shop. And those countries are in a real danger of becoming a whole narco-region. Nothing seen before in that scale or magnitude. Is that cultural too?
 
AvObserver
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:42 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
The foreign latino gangs that here are quite limited if registering on the radar at all. Local latino gangs aren't going to tolerate Salvis or any other outside latino influence on their turf or community, they may very well be useful to joining US latino gangs but they cannot function apart from the latino gangs already in place...very difficult to achieve.

Latino gangs, fueled largely by an exploding Latino populace in large measure illegal conduct ethnic cleansing against blacks in L.A.

http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/2006/080206hate.html

http://www.rense.com/general70/ana.htm

Even the biased SPLC has written about it.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/0...ccused-of-campaign-against-blacks/

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Sure we have some border skirmishes, but our citizens have been going across the border beating up and killing Mexican hookers for how long now? How many Americans cross the border to have sex with underage Mexican kids? Thousands! If Mexican adults were coming here to do that..we'd have invaded the place by now. So that's a bogus concern in the wider scope of current events.

I don't doubt this happens in some numbers but thousands? Show me the link to quantify that. In the meantime, our kids and women are indeed being raped, brutalized and murdered by illegals. I agree we should invade Mexico over it.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/20...legal-aliens-and-their-sex-crimes/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90191&page=1#.TsxGx_Lhf8Y

http://www.darksideofillegalimmigration.com/page6.html

http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2010/0...-charged-with-rape-of-11-year-old/

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2?pag...60&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1007

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
recent documentary called Mississippi Poultry or something similar..it featured owners of Poultry farms and other industries across the South were the owners complain that local people simply won't do the work that the latinos do and how 'lazy' the American's are.

They may complain because they want to illegally pay subminimum wage to illegals who won't talk but the facts are, unemployed Americans usually line up for these jobs after illegal workers are removed, albeit at fair, legal wages.

http://www.cis.org/2006SwiftRaids

http://cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/ne...left-vacant-immigration-raids.html

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2009-09-13-plants_N.htm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
..you bitch about it, can't have it both ways fella.

I don't want it both ways. I want our laws enforced and will pay more for my goods if I know my fellow American is working for legal wages as opposed to an undocumented migrant being exploited by an unscrupulous U.S. company.

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 37):
I don't know who exactly you're calling idiotic, but it better not be me.
And I see no example of anyone placing foreign welfare above our own. I do see hypocrisy here as in some European nation claimed any American caught here illegal could end up in jailed or be killed, you wouldn't be ok with that...or you were ok with it, then retaliated with harsher counter-measures, then they up it..then we up it, and on and on...that's what type of thinking you are promoting a vicious cycle of escalation.

If an American entered a European nation and committed a heinous crime, I've no qualms about them dealing with him harshly, even if he was my own relative. And I employ the term "idiot" broadly in reference to liberals who inexplicably seem enamored with all things illegal alien and who ignore the horrendous consequences of massive illegal migration. These delusional folks won't even recognize the difference between "legal" and "illegal" immigration; to them, it's inexplicably irrelevant.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
I don't know what the stats are but the number of deaths by illegal entrants compared to those by 'American' killers has to be less than 1%..far less. The US has 3 choices - two really, 1 & 2 are the virtually same
do nothing or let Mexico go from being a desperate nation to and even more desperate criminal nation cranking out more criminals to try and deal with. Or help the nation become more like Canada as a safer nation. Either way, US dollars will continue to flow their way..take your pick. No wall will make the problem go away..that's false security.

I happen to think it's a lot higher than your 1% but I agree we should help Mexico develop economically. However, while the Border Fence isn't an answer unto itself, it provides a useful speedbump that gives Border Patrol agents more time to respond to incursions. Now some stats: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=39031

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims_2.html

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=10663

http://www.thedustininmansociety.org...no_more_deaths/no_more_deaths.html

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Just as irrelevant.

That is..if the KKK & Stormfront is irrelevant...which they aren't.

Their influence is diminishing; when was the last time you heard of a major rally by either? By contrast, the surging population of Mexican heritage Latinos in the Southwest will fuel a rise in the number that believes in the myth of Atzlan, that U.S. territory belongs to Mexico.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

http://aztlan.net/

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/kovach/050829

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0...-berets-target-rally_n_652905.html

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Southern Poverty Law Center is an organization that monitors hate groups, activity and growth patterns. Obviously something you don't like.

Not when it's biased; such as labeling orgs like the Minutemen who only report illegal alien incursions to the Border Patrol as "hate groups", a ridiculous notion and selectively dismiss most non-white, anti-white hate group activity:

http://www.americanpatrol.com/SPLC/ChurchofMorrisDees001100.html

http://www.cfnews.org/SPLC.htm

http://www.24hgold.com/english/contr...02G10020&contributor=Tom+DiLorenzo

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2011/08/splc_continues.php

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
The history of white supremacist activity , they has done far more harm thant all these groups put together! Today a ruling handed down on one who was 14 when he killed a gay kid in Ventura County. They are far from irrelevant, they are still breeding hatred and violence at rates far out pacing any of the groups any of you have listed..and here you 3 are..ignoring it and trying convince others that they are harmless!

I don't dismiss them but I maintain their influence is ebbing due to public scrutiny and demographic shifts. The white population is declining but the non-black minority population, mostly Hispanic, is rising. White hate groups are increasingly marginalized by liberal media scrutiny while non-white ones are mostly ignored by that same liberal media.

Your entire premise of this thread seems to be that those in the GOP who oppose illegal immigration are misguided or just wrong, which implies you think massive illegal immigration is just fine; you don't care if the nation becomes balkanized and loses societal cohesion. There are a lot of liberals who think like you. I find it hard to understand why so many of them insist we should NOT enforce laws or moreover, imply that the Rule Of Law is irrelevant. And why those like me who insist we follow the Rule Of Law are slandered as racist when all we want is for people to obey the laws. That's highly offensive because it's unfounded demagoguery, disingenuous at best and outright libel at worst.
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:44 am

Quoting ual777 (Reply 39):
The primary component fueling the drug war in Mexico is not drug demand from the US, but the systematic corruption that is engrained in Mexico. The astonishing level of violence there is cultural, not a result of the US.

   Mexican's haven't beheaded people since the days of the Aztecs!

The appalling violence occurring now is nothing more than machismo bravado gone amok and one-upsmanship on steroids in an effort to intimidate a corrupt government.

And yes, the US drug trade is a HUGE component in the equation. Take that away, .. the money dries up and there's no need to battle for turf, trade routes and ops.

Quoting ual777 (Reply 39):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

Maybe in New Jersey these kids you speak up will do the jobs low paying latinos will do.. but not here in California as well as many other states, there's recent documentary called Mississippi Poultry or something similar..it featured owners of Poultry farms and other industries across the South were the owners complain that local people simply won't do the work that the latinos do and how 'lazy' the American's are.

Pay them, and they will come.

'Pay them ' being the operative phrase, with Herman Cain and like minds (I can see Gingrinch on this boat).. repealing or doing away with the minimum wage is going in the exact opposite direct of 'pay them'.

'Pay them'...? That's not gonna happen.


s

Quoting ual777 (Reply 39):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

Just as irrelevant.

That is..if the KKK & Stormfront is irrelevant...which they aren't.

If there was a white group called "The Race" instead of a Latino group named "La Raza", it would be crucified immediately.

Someone needs to pay the Southern Poverty Law Center website a visit and count how many White Supremacist groups there are. But sure add one more, The Race..why not, what could one more hurt?

If you can't find the list...let me know, I'll list 'em for ya.

BN747

[Edited 2011-11-22 19:44:59]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:00 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
The appalling violence occurring now is nothing more than machismo bravado gone amok and one-upsmanship on steroids in an effort to intimidate a corrupt government.

I hate Calderón. I hate his party. But there are things he has done in which I have to tip my hat. His government has been the least corrupt of the many we´ve had in a lot of decades. Certainly in the narco trafficking issue, he took them head on, and kept at it. In this matter, no corruption at the federal level has been seen since a long time.

Again, if you don´t curb your drug demand, if it´s not Mexico, some other country or REGION will fulfill it.
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:52 am

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Sure we have some border skirmishes, but our citizens have been going across the border beating up and killing Mexican hookers for how long now? How many Americans cross the border to have sex with underage Mexican kids? Thousands! If Mexican adults were coming here to do that..we'd have invaded the place by now. So that's a bogus concern in the wider scope of current events.

I don't doubt this happens in some numbers but thousands? Show me the link to quantify that.

You really think there's some box you check on your return to disclose whether or not 'you engaged in underage sex' while in Mexico upon re-entry into the US?

Or perhaps you think the underaged kids over there are keeping count between molestations...

350 million border crossings occur each year (wikipedia).

Do the math... 52 weekends a year 3 days over the weekends = 156 days/nights - walk over borders in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.. 300 men each state ( 4 (states) x 300 = 1200 x 156 nights would equal 187, 200 encounters. And 300 men per state is extremely conservative! Plus we're not counting Mon-Thurs. All those strip clubs you see aren't just for show.

there are 42 crossing points - our 1200 men (300 per state) would translate into 28.5 men per location per weekend day/night. In San Diego two main conduits alone, men looking for fun beat that number every hour in a single day. You'd better re-think that 'no in the 1000s' remark.

..and yes, it's Americans going over to have sex with underaged minors...not Mexicans coming to the US to do it. Even the number of illegal Mexicans raping American women doesn't come within striking distance of 187,000. Not half that, not a quarter, not and a 16th!

Any anger about that? Of course not.

Good luck on finding anyone willing to admit to child rape so you can have your stats.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
I don't know what the stats are but the number of deaths by illegal entrants compared to those by 'American' killers has to be less than 1%..far less. The US has 3 choices - two really, 1 & 2 are the virtually same
do nothing or let Mexico go from being a desperate nation to and even more desperate criminal nation cranking out more criminals to try and deal with. Or help the nation become more like Canada as a safer nation. Either way, US dollars will continue to flow their way..take your pick. No wall will make the problem go away..that's false security.

I happen to think it's a lot higher than your 1%

Even if it is above that 1%... it's not enough to ringing the alarm bells you're ringing.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Just as irrelevant.

That is..if the KKK & Stormfront is irrelevant...which they aren't.

Their influence is diminishing; when was the last time you heard of a major rally by either?

You couldn't be more wrong or out of touch...

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
I don't dismiss them but I maintain their influence is ebbing due to public scrutiny and demographic shifts.

KKK RALLY - Stormfront
www.stormfront.org › Stormfront › Activism › Events
72 posts - 7 authors - Last post: Feb 1
Upcoming Klan Rallies for 2011, Take a look at website for Rally News , www. kkkknights.com Virgil's White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan Past it ...
KKK Rally Aug 13 2011‎ - 3 posts - Aug 21, 2011
KKK Rally Aug 13 2011 In Va‎ - 1 post - Jul 5, 2011
KKK Rally July 2nd 2011‎ - 1 post - Jun 28, 2011
July 9th 2011 KKK RALLY‎ - 3 posts - Jun 19, 2011

----------------------

Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan - Pubic March 2011
www.kkkknights.com/public_march_2011Feb 12, 2011 – Ku Klux Klan, protesting students' suspensions, holds rally on steps of courthouse in Gate City.By Rick Wagner Published February 12th, 2011 ...

...really, it's ebbing?

It's ebbing in your mind because you don't have a problem with with it. You don't perceive it as a threat.


Hate crimes statistics are off the charts...

FBI Hate Crime Statistics Report Finds Higher Percentages Of Anti-Latino Hate Crimes In 2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...port-says-67-of-eth_n_1092976.html

Hate Crimes Against Latinos Spike
The FBI’s annual Hate Crime Statistics report was released on November 14, and the numbers show a dramatic spike in crimes against Latinos.

http://www.care2.com/causes/hate-crimes-against-latinos-spike.html

The number was up 11% since last year to 66.6 percent of victims of ethnically motivated hate crimes in 2010. In California, they went up 50%.

These figures for those targeted because of anti-Latino bias are the highest percentage in almost a decade.

The Southern Poverty Law Center said of a previous spike in 2007:

There’s no doubt that the tone of the raging national debate over immigration is growing uglier by the day. Once limited to hard-core white supremacists and a handful of border-state extremists, vicious public denunciations of undocumented brown-skinned immigrants are increasingly common among supposedly mainstream anti-immigration activists, radio hosts and politicians. While their dehumanizing rhetoric typically stops short of openly sanctioning bloodshed, much of it implicitly encourages or even endorses violence by characterizing immigrants from Mexico and Central America as “invaders,” “criminal aliens” and “cockroaches.”


...and do you think people putting for views and fears like yours are aiding of helping the situation? I gotta go wth adding fuel to the flames.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
Your entire premise of this thread seems to be that those in the GOP who oppose illegal immigration are misguided or just wrong, which implies you think massive illegal immigration is just fine; you don't care if the nation becomes balkanized and loses societal cohesion. There are a lot of liberals who think like you.

And there are a lot of liberal like me who know weak-minded racist scapegoating when we see it.

I don't support illegal immigration, but I am against prosecution of illegal immigration of people based on skin color. There no vibrant aggressive actions against the hordes of illegal Australians here in SoCal, or the Kiwis , or the Canucks, or the Irish or Italians as there is against brown people. And that no one can tell me that there is.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
I find it hard to understand why so many of them insist we should NOT enforce laws or moreover, imply that the Rule Of Law is irrelevant.

No..just apply it 'Equally"

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
And why those like me who insist we follow the Rule Of Law are slandered as racist when all we want is for people to obey the laws.

When you start demanding equal application of the law, then you are not racist.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 41):
That's highly offensive because it's unfounded demagoguery, disingenuous at best and outright libel at worst.

Not when you're targeting one group of people it isn't. It's a dead on moniker.

What's disingenuous is when people 'try' to act like and profess they're being fair and just and they're about as one-sided as a car that only makes left turns. It's even more insulting when they're trying to convince others that White Supremacist hate groups are dying out...in the face of direct proven contradicting facts.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 42):
The appalling violence occurring now is nothing more than machismo bravado gone amok and one-upsmanship on steroids in an effort to intimidate a corrupt government.

I hate Calderón. I hate his party. But there are things he has done in which I have to tip my hat. His government has been the least corrupt of the many we´ve had in a lot of decades. Certainly in the narco trafficking issue, he took them head on, and kept at it. In this matter, no corruption at the federal level has been seen since a long time.

Again, if you don´t curb your drug demand, if it´s not Mexico, some other country or REGION will fulfill it.

During his 'Gore-Bush' like election, I was against him too, I hated that he got in... but some of my more savvy friends from DF didn't say why, but they silently supported him..today, after many many visits to Mexico.. I now understand why.

But I'm afraid, since Mexico's presidency is limited to one 6 year term... it's basically a lost cause. The corruption in Mexico - and I love the country a lot, is just too deep. Yes, Calderon is a refreshing change.. but can it sustain itself? I don't see how it can. With a dismal economy in many places outside Mexico and certainly families holding a gorilla grip in major industries - it is the idea state monopoly existence ever (aside form Nigeria). That in itself is what keeps the local cops trapped in a vicious never-ending circle of corruption. This is the kind of War that requires a Calderon at the top and another working it from the bottom up.


BN747

[Edited 2011-11-22 21:01:17]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2392
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:51 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
You really think there's some box you check on your return to disclose whether or not 'you engaged in underage sex' while in Mexico upon re-entry into the US?

Or perhaps you think the underaged kids over there are keeping count between molestations...

350 million border crossings occur each year (wikipedia).

Do the math... 52 weekends a year 3 days over the weekends = 156 days/nights - walk over borders in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.. 300 men each state ( 4 (states) x 300 = 1200 x 156 nights would equal 187, 200 encounters. And 300 men per state is extremely conservative! Plus we're not counting Mon-Thurs. All those strip clubs you see aren't just for show.

there are 42 crossing points - our 1200 men (300 per state) would translate into 28.5 men per location per weekend day/night. In San Diego two main conduits alone, men looking for fun beat that number every hour in a single day. You'd better re-think that 'no in the 1000s' remark.

..and yes, it's Americans going over to have sex with underaged minors...not Mexicans coming to the US to do it. Even the number of illegal Mexicans raping American women doesn't come within striking distance of 187,000. Not half that, not a quarter, not and a 16th!

Any anger about that? Of course not.

Good luck on finding anyone willing to admit to child rape so you can have your stats.

This is sheer speculation based on NOTHING but your own extrapolations. And I'm angry about ANY minors being raped or molested, no matter who does it. Give me a link to specifics like I gave you. If you don't have any, shut up.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan - Pubic March 2011
www.kkkknights.com/public_march_2011Feb 12, 2011 – Ku Klux Klan, protesting students' suspensions, holds rally on steps of courthouse in Gate City.By Rick Wagner Published February 12th, 2011 ...

The media no longer pays heed to these small potatoes events; they're not MAJOR rallies like what used to go on in Mississippi. The KKK has little credibility even in the deep South now and far fewer folks will associate with them. If they were any sort of deal, Anderson Cooper would be on them regularly but he's not because they're in decline.

Again, you quote orgs like SPLC, Huffington Post and Care2 who acknowledge they're of a progressive bent and conform to liberal views and talking points..

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
And there are a lot of liberal like me who know weak-minded racist scapegoating when we see it.

I don't support illegal immigration, but I am against prosecution of illegal immigration of people based on skin color. There no vibrant aggressive actions against the hordes of illegal Australians here in SoCal, or the Kiwis , or the Canucks, or the Irish or Italians as there is against brown people. And that no one can tell me that there is.

Again, slandering me as racist? It seems liberals play the race card whenever possible. The only reason Mexican illegals get more backlash than these other groups is due to their sheer numbers; they far outnumber the others.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
When you start demanding equal application of the law, then you are not racist.

And I demand that all immigrants of all ethnicities follow the law or be prosecuted equally.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
What's disingenuous is when people 'try' to act like and profess they're being fair and just and they're about as one-sided as a car that only makes left turns. It's even more insulting when they're trying to convince others that White Supremacist hate groups are dying out...in the face of direct proven contradicting facts.

The 'facts' you quote are from orgs who talk almost exclusively about white hate but virtually ignore that of other ethnic groups because reporting that other side doesn't fit their liberal narrative. You're so steeped in the baloney put out by the SPLC which labels passive anti-illegal immigration orgs as hate groups, you can't even understand the nightmare illegal immigration has become, despite the facts I posted. Your own idealogy has blinded you to the threat; you see only the distorted agenda of the Left. Fair enough but I hope nobody in your own family ever falls victim to this problem; I doubt you could ever deal with it in a realistic way.

Here's some more news:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...or-shootout-in-Houston-2283252.php

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...-Houston-2283252.php#ixzz1eUgstNAa
 
windy95
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RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
And there are a lot of liberal like me who know weak-minded racist scapegoating when we see it.




Sorry but you are still the one who continues with the reverse racism. It seems everyone is a bigot or racist but you. You continue to divide everyone into groups and that will continue to have negative effects. People are tired of the divisiveness and the hyphenations. We are tired of being called a racist for using the term illegal alien.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
There no vibrant aggressive actions against the hordes of illegal Australians here in SoCal, or the Kiwis , or the Canucks, or the Irish or Italians as there is against brown people. And that no one can tell me that there is



Why can it simply not be the fact that the 'Brown people" make up the super-majority of the illegals. All illegal aliens need to be deported. I have many friends who are legal 'Brown people" and they can not stand illegals. Are they racist? My wife and her whole extended family are from an equatorial nation and they cannot stand illegal immigration because they all waited and did it the legal way. Are they racist? Your constant racism drumming is getting old. Illegal is illegal. Do not care what color or what nation they are from.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
When you start demanding equal application of the law, then you are not racist.

How is continuiing to say to send home illegal aliens not asking for equal protection of the law? How many Republicans do yo know that say send home the "brown" illegals only. The fact that our southern border is a sieve for illegals from the south and that the border needs to be shut down against illegal migration makes no one a racist or bigot.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
Not when you're targeting one group of people it isn't. It's a dead on moniker.

What's disingenuous is when people 'try' to act like and profess they're being fair and just and they're about as one-sided as a car that only makes left turns.

And you continue to post with your race blinders on.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
Again, you quote orgs like SPLC, Huffington Post and Care2 who acknowledge they're of a progressive bent and conform to liberal views and talking points..

Correct

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
This is sheer speculation based on NOTHING but your own extrapolations. .

As is most of his race based posts.
 
BN747
Topic Author
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
This is sheer speculation based on NOTHING but your own extrapolations. And I'm angry about ANY minors being raped or molested, no matter who does it. Give me a link to specifics like I gave you. If you don't have any, shut up.

Watch the tone there fella, the Mods don't tolerate adults acting like 6 year olds telling others to shut up.

Our own best kept stats don't begin to tell the truth of how many fathers, uncles, brothers, cousins molest their own children, siblings and relatives..how do you expect any organization to compile statistics on a subject no one likes to discuss or face up to. Child molestation and child abuse are the shame no one dare speaks of in advanced modern America.

and of 350 million border crossings a year to suggest that less than .001 percent of them are involved into child molestation is incredibly generous in accounting. Extremely generous! The truth is .. just like in America, the problem is bigger than anyone cares to admit (and apparently more than you can face up to). Your one liner means nothing compared to your hatred and clear discomfort of a growing brown America. It has a hold on you to the point of appearing hysterical ...whereas in contrast the American molesters don't exist to you because you don't really care, .it's that too many browns in the neighborhood is the bigger scare.


The links you provide are not worth looking at anyway because you're just quoting what fits your view point and fueling your fear.

You could have just as easily proved links highlighting extremely high anti-Latino hate crimes and racist attitudes...but you did not, because you want to pretend it's not an issue or you tacitly support it.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
Fair enough but I hope nobody in your own family ever falls victim to this problem

Save it, you don't really care and if anything ever happened to anyone in my family, I am far more advanced in the mind to launch into a hatred tirade against the entire race of the perpetrator.

If an illegal Mexican kills (again, which is drastically miniscule in comparison to Americans killing Americans numbers) he'll kill another latino, a black a white an asian whatever. The 'hate groups' you say 'not to worry about' and aren't a factor specifically targets ' blacks, jews, gays, asians for exactly who they are - which is far far worse in my book. If we could swap ever racist in America for an illegal alien...I'd take that offer in a heartbeat, because I'd know that 95-98% of those illegal aliens are well meaning and decent people just wanting a better life...whereas 100% of the racist are a hateful bunch of useless souls that contribute nothing good to the well being of America.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 43):
Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan - Pubic March 2011
www.kkkknights.com/public_march_2011Feb 12, 2011 %u2013 Ku Klux Klan, protesting students' suspensions, holds rally on steps of courthouse in Gate City.By Rick Wagner Published February 12th, 2011 ...

The media no longer pays heed to these small potatoes events;

The media just did, but of course you don't see it a problem.

But if La Raza or the New Black Panther Party had the same events, dated and listed as you just saw from the KKK and Storm Front... you'd be here having a mouth foaming hissy fit. But since it's the KKK and Storm Front...'it's small'.
Can you be anymore hypocritical?

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
they're not MAJOR rallies like what used to go on in Mississippi.

So for it to 'be important of noteworthy'... it has to be as it was in the 1950s and 60s all over again for it to mean anything? It's insidious comments like this spoken with great sincerity which really exposes you.

If La Raza or the New Black Panther party were marching today, like the 1950s or '60s KKK - which is the marker for suddenly it's a big deal for the KKK, Stormfront...then it's be the same big deal threshold for the black & brown groups.
Thus the weakness in your argument.


Sure, your biggest concern is the moment when whites are only 40% of the population and the others are 60%...well with an attitude like yours.. you should be worried.

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
The KKK has little credibility even in the deep South now and far fewer folks will associate with them. If they were any sort of deal, Anderson Cooper would be on them regularly but he's not because they're in decline.

Anderson Cooper??? That's the bench marker of reality..? You're criticizing the Liberal media in one breath and using it as the gospel in the next!

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
Again, you quote orgs like SPLC, Huffington Post and Care2 who acknowledge they're of a progressive bent and conform to liberal views and talking points..

Your trashing of the Southern Poverty Law Center is all I need to know that you have a grudge against anyone or anything that is 'against' America's past wrongs and who stands vigilant against it ever repeating itself. They've done nothing but gone against the most blatantly guilty, the worst of the worst and here you are attacking them. If the Founder of the KKK, Nathan Bedford Forrest were alive today, he'd be doing the exact same thing. Today, David Duke himself does exactly what you're doing now and here ..so are you. Any man can who be against that effort in the tone you've struck there .. speaks volumes about what your preferences are and it's truly sickening. The rest of your comments aren't worth recognition.

Ever see that Big RED Panic button and Staples or Office Depot....get one, because in 20 years, when America is a whole lot browner, you're gonna need it... but in all honesty, you cna push it til your face turns blue, I don't think it will result in anything beyond a sore finger.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
And there are a lot of liberal like me who know weak-minded racist scapegoating when we see it.



Sorry but you are still the one who continues with the reverse racism. It seems everyone is a bigot or racist but you. You continue to divide everyone into groups and that will continue to have negative effects. People are tired of the divisiveness and the hyphenations. We are tired of being called a racist for using the term illegal alien.

Reverse racism can be griped about only - by those who fully grasp the original extend of the 1st wave of racism, the original age of racism - which leaves you out.

Because you know little next to nothing about it - sure you can google up a few items..but the knowledge is not your own. Only people trapped in a subliminal racist mindset continually 'scream' reverse racism. One came before the other..get to know 1st before get drummed up about the second. You're a late comer to knowing anything about racism and starting out with 'reverse racism' is the only position conservatives know - and faulty premise at that. Ever drive half of a car? That's what you're doing when you speak of race...you're missing the other half (the bigger half) and don't care.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
There no vibrant aggressive actions against the hordes of illegal Australians here in SoCal, or the Kiwis , or the Canucks, or the Irish or Italians as there is against brown people. And that no one can tell me that there is



Why can it simply not be the fact that the 'Brown people" make up the super-majority of the illegals.

Because it is that - visually. You have no idea how many illegal canucks, aussies, kiwis, brits, irish, french, poles, germans, russians, slavs are here. Not a clue. And even if the Census bureau popped out a number..it'd be the same as if they pooped it out..they have no idea either.

Show me a post you've made griping about illegal canucks, aussies, kiwis, brits, irish, french, poles, germans, russians, slavs draining the system, stealing jobs, etc.. and I say you have a valid argument.

But you cannot. Because you have not.

What you have done is latch on to the visual reference like all the other conservatives. All the other weak minds have done the same and so the term 'illegal conjures up the image of someone brown - Mexico is 1st up at bat' with the other Central American nations in tow. It's wrapped in racism and and divided by race. When an illegal immigrant story is broadcast you expect to see a brown person - you don't wonder for a second if it's a brit or a russian.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
When you start demanding equal application of the law, then you are not racist.

How is continuiing to say to send home illegal aliens not asking for equal protection of the law? How many Republicans do yo know that say send home the "brown" illegals only

Because every knows exactly who they are talking about..it's no big secret, people aren't that stupid. Republicans are champs at being racists look up all gov't official disgraced at making racist Obama jokes,emails, comments, etc...all GOP. The record speaks for itself.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):
The fact that our southern border is a sieve for illegals from the south and that the border needs to be shut down against illegal migration makes no one a racist or bigot.

Just as the north has been for canucks..even more so.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 44):
Not when you're targeting one group of people it isn't. It's a dead on moniker.

What's disingenuous is when people 'try' to act like and profess they're being fair and just and they're about as one-sided as a car that only makes left turns.

And you continue to post with your race blinders on.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 46):

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 45):
This is sheer speculation based on NOTHING but your own extrapolations. .

As is most of his race based posts.

Yeah, show me what I've said is racist...and I'll post yours next to it.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ual777
Posts: 1491
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:25 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):

What you have done is latch on to the visual reference like all the other conservatives. All the other weak minds have done the same and so the term 'illegal conjures up the image of someone brown - Mexico is 1st up at bat' with the other Central American nations in tow. It's wrapped in racism and and divided by race. When an illegal immigrant story is broadcast you expect to see a brown person - you don't wonder for a second if it's a brit or a russian.

Thats because the majority are from those countries. Illegal is illegal. I don't care if they are white, brown, black, or whatever.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2392
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: Latino Voters: Obama Leads Going Into 2012

Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:06 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):
Your one liner means nothing compared to your hatred and clear discomfort of a growing brown America. It has a hold on you to the point of appearing hysterical ...whereas in contrast the American molesters don't exist to you because you don't really care, .it's that too many browns in the neighborhood is the bigger scare.

I'm fine with brown Americans as long as they come in legally and conform to our society without expecting us to conform to theirs. English is the language of success here but too many are slow to learn it because they don't care to assimilate.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):
The links you provide are not worth looking at anyway because you're just quoting what fits your view point and fueling your fear.

(quote=BN747,reply=47]The links you provide are not worth looking at anyway because you're just quoting what fits your view point and fueling your fear.

And your links don't reflect a biased viewpoint?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):
But if La Raza or the New Black Panther Party had the same events, dated and listed as you just saw from the KKK and Storm Front... you'd be here having a mouth foaming hissy fit. But since it's the KKK and Storm Front...'it's small'.

All of these events are objectionable. But the media pays little attention because white supremicists are no longer prominent, as you said "not noteworthy". The media also pays little atthention to the non-white groups because it doesn't fit their narrative to complain about white bashers.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):
If La Raza or the New Black Panther party were marching today, like the 1950s or '60s KKK - which is the marker for suddenly it's a big deal for the KKK, Stormfront...then it's be the same big deal threshold for the black & brown groups.
Thus the weakness in your argument.

La Raza ("The Race") marches by proxy by inspiring smaller groups like the Brown Berets, MeChA, etc.

http://24ahead.com/blog/archives/007438.html

http://24ahead.com/janet-murguia-spi...a-and-their-promotion-extremist-gr

Quoting BN747 (Reply 47):
Your trashing of the Southern Poverty Law Center is all I need to know that you have a grudge against anyone or anything that is 'against' America's past wrongs and who stands vigilant against it ever repeating itself. They've done nothing but gone against the most blatantly guilty, the worst of the worst and here you are attacking them.

Wrong. They also lump in groups simply opposed to illegal immigration and won't make the distinction between "legal" and "illegal". Groups opposed to illegal immigration aren't "anti-immigrant"; that's just more liberal demagoguery. I've worked with the Federation for American Immigration Reform on lobbying assignments in D.C. and they're a decent organization, as are most Minutemen border watch groups. I know Jeff Schwilk of the San Diego Minutemen to be a fair and decent man who doesn't bash illegals; only their apologists. And to target commentators like Lou Dobbs for merely reporting on this topic, shows they're interested in only one view; their own. Morris Dees is a master of slander and while SPLC started out as a just organization, they've largely morphed into a smear machine against those who don't fall in line with their slant.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...ence-files/ideology/anti-immigrant

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...r-american-immigration-reform-fair

It amazes me you say you're not "for" illegal immigration but make apologies for it at every turn and moreover demonize those who speak against it with the usual liberal race baiting nonsense bent on groups that were a lot more relevant years ago than today and largely ignoring the here and now. Your entire thread was bent on labeling GOP candidates as anti-immigrant, as opposed to being anti-illegal immigration. Instead, you did a better job of labeling Latino voters pro-illegal based on a link by the uber liberal Huffington Post. That could also be taken as a form of slander by Hispanics who are as opposed to the illegal invasion as I am. Will you too label them as racists or turncoats as NCLR tries to?

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_ht...against-illegal-immigration-video/

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...le=%22You_Don%27t_Speak_for_Me!%22

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