ozglobal
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CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:08 am

Have you noticed the vitriolic ant-Euro propaganda campaign coming out of CNN International? Every 2 hours or so a new damningly grim article is published arguing that the total collapse of the Euro is immanent. They are even doing a'10 day countdown to Euro-apocalypse'. All guests interviewed are British representatives of the viralently anti-Euro school of Euro-skeptics, aparantly longing for, hungingering for the collapse of the Euro. This is clearly not journalism, but lobbying. Since this crisis is largely on of sentiment, CNN must take a share of responsibility for it.

The more important question is why they are mounting such a transparently one sided and agressive campaign.

More worrying, when I post any such criticism on the comment section of their articles, the comments are put in a status of 'awaiting moderation' and then deleted. Further, previously published comments from many other users making the same points yesterday, have mainly been deleted today. The comment count on some articles is down today from 50 or more yesterday to just 15 or so!

CNN is using the tactics they criticize in the Chinese govrnment. The question is Why? Who is paying for this?

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/1...euro-but-how/?hpt=hp_c3&hpt=ibu_t4

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/1...ailures-of-eu-leaders/?hpt=ibu_t3/

[Edited 2011-12-02 03:16:38]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:53 am

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Since this crisis is largely on of sentiment, CNN must take a share of responsibility for it.

It is largely based on financial mismanagement within the Eurozone. Sentiment is secondary to mathematics.

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
More worrying, when I post any such criticism on the comment section of their articles, the comments are put in a status of 'awaiting moderation' and then deleted. Further, previously published comments from many other users making the same points yesterday, have mainly been deleted today. The comment count on some articles is down today from 50 or more yesterday to just 15 or so!

You're not entitled to post on a website's comment section any more than you are entitled to have a newspaper to run your letter to the editor. Knowing how indelicate some people act on comment sections, it's probably not worth their time to wade through a mountain of submissions.
 
ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:16 pm

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 1):
Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Since this crisis is largely on of sentiment, CNN must take a share of responsibility for it.

It is largely based on financial mismanagement within the Eurozone. Sentiment is secondary to mathematics.

It is both and CNN are fanning sentiment in a very specific, consistent and one-sided direction. Why is the question.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 1):
Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
More worrying, when I post any such criticism on the comment section of their articles, the comments are put in a status of 'awaiting moderation' and then deleted. Further, previously published comments from many other users making the same points yesterday, have mainly been deleted today. The comment count on some articles is down today from 50 or more yesterday to just 15 or so!

You're not entitled to post on a website's comment section any more than you are entitled to have a newspaper to run your letter to the editor. Knowing how indelicate some people act on comment sections, it's probably not worth their time to wade through a mountain of submissions.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but neither the other comments nor mine were outside the rules of their forum. Their only common point was calling into question CNN's style and journalism. All deleted. All valid, civilized and without colourful language or breaches of good behaviour. The questoin is why?


Have you read the articles? Have you compared with other sources? A lack of curiosity can be a dangerous thing...

[Edited 2011-12-02 04:18:35]
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
slz396
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:40 pm

CNN is as good as the inventor of 'breaking news' and is heavily reliant on the public sentiment things are actually developing while you watch them on their newschannels, so whenever something happens in the world that has the potential to becomes something big, they have a long standing habbit of going full blast on it right away, even if -in the end- nothing comes of it...

This debt crisis is nothing different really and here they have the luck that they were helped here by a small comment from an EU commissioner who said in an interview a clear way forward must emerge by the next EU summit, in -then- 10 days for now, something which is a god's giff of course, as CNN can then put counters and banners allover their news reports. Combine this with the fact CNN have no problem finding English language 'experts' on the euro to fill their programs with, and you have what you see there: a constant dramatized reporting style as if somehow next week, the euro is going to disappear! ROTFL

As you correctly point out, most of those 'experts' CNN is bringing in have a rather similar anti-EU background, something which is quite widespread amongst UK financial circles indeed, hence CNN sounding quite dramatic through their analysts. I wouldn't go as far as to suggest they deliberately want to sound this way, but they may not have a choice really, if they are to keep this 'breaking news' topic alive for the next week in order to milk it completely.

Its becoming quite clear from a stream of coordinated pre-announcements from both the French President, the German Chancellor or the ECB President, that they will decide on more fiscal integration for the EU at next week's meeting in BRU, after which the ECB will play its part in helping to control bond yields of those countries which came into trouble and we'll be off on a slow path to recovery...

However, such news is far less spectacular to bring for CNN and will immediately halt their 'breaking news' status, so with 8 more days to go still, they want to keep tension amongst their viewers as high as they possibly can: after all, that means still 8 days of increased spectator's numbers and thus advertizement revenues, even if it means they need to revert to practices of deliberately ill-informing their specatators by focussing on just one possiblility, while disregarding all events that proof that possibility is getting ever more remote as time passes by.

Here's a to-the-point, no-nonsense report about the real sense of the markets right now, coming from the BCC, which is not known to be very pro-EU either, btw:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15998609

Oh well, let them be for another week, after which they will just move on to the next breaking news event, elsewhere, while the experts on the euro they have aired over the past 10 days are shaking their heads in disbelief over the fact that things have moved in a completely different direction than they had expected. 

[Edited 2011-12-02 04:42:15]
 
ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:52 pm

What are the bets they have been told to take a certain angle, ultimately to support financial positions held by interests connected with their corporation?

If it's just sensationalist, why take a position, why not fill the hours with panel debates, etc which would probably be higher rating?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
mham001
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:41 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 3):
Here's a to-the-point, no-nonsense report about the real sense of the markets right now, coming from the BCC, which is not known to be very pro-EU either, btw:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15998609

That link does not report much of anything, except the US unemployment rate. I won't try to defend CNN, they are the same with all their reporting. Usually it favors a liberal Euro view so many may now be confused that the news is not reported in their favor.

I was wondering what happened to our main Euro Superiority Proponent. Not quite so cocky now. It would be interesting to go back and read those posts extolling the unassailable superiority of the Euro uber alle.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Have you noticed the vitriolic ant-Euro propaganda campaign coming out of CNN International?

I think it's just typical sensationalism and they're not anti-anything. It's the media we're talking about here. If they were really anti-Euro, I think they would have been railing on the Euro before all this began. When you have someone that gives only 10 days before something monumentally bad happens, don't you think the media would jump on board?
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:42 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/1...ailures-of-eu-leaders/?hpt=ibu_t3/

This Kirsty Hughes individual appears to be nothing but pro-EU, so I don't know where you are coming from when you say this is anti-EU propaganda. He is criticizing EU leaders and policy, not the idea of the EU.

Richard Quest's piece is very doom and gloom, but alas, that is the situation the world is in today and has been for a while. And as the guest speaker even said, for bureaucrats to put out an official document describing a calamity it must mean you really are facing trouble.
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LAXintl
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:02 pm

I'm not sure why you are focusing on CNN. Look at other media.

Economist last week carried multiple stories about the imminent failure of the Euro. I suspect this weeks edition will be the same.

Financial Times seems to have a daily story about Euro and likely break up of currency union.

Here in the US, former head of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan was quoted as saying Eurozone is doomed to fail with a single currency.

Additionally I've seen stories about various large and small companies preparing for a breakup themselves by doing things like renegotiating contracts to add alternate forms of payment besides the Euro.

So no I don't think CNN or anyone else is doing lobbying by reporting on an a real issue that could come true in the coming weeks/months.
Matter of fact, I'd be more concerned about those news organizations that choose to ignore this huge problem and under report the issue as the fall out from such and event will have global ramifications.
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Asturias
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
I'm not sure why you are focusing on CNN. Look at other media.

Probably because CNN thus far isn't known to be a part of the anti-EU lobby, which the FT, the "Economist", Ayn Rand loons like Greenspan et al are religious supporters of.

I guess one can't fault a failing network like CNN to try to reinvent itself or trying to get a few hits for sensationalist bullpucky, but it's a rather crude and pathetic attempt. Good thing they've fired all those editors, looks like they won't need them.

The motives of CNN are simple enough - they're trying to survive with superficial sensationalism (e.g. "Eurogeddon") - The motives of Olli Rehn? One can only speculate.

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ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:47 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
I'm not sure why you are focusing on CNN. Look at other media.

Economist last week carried multiple stories about the imminent failure of the Euro. I suspect this weeks edition will be the same.

Financial Times seems to have a daily story about Euro and likely break up of currency union.

Here in the US, former head of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan was quoted as saying Eurozone is doomed to fail with a single currency.

Right, bitter Anglo-shere figures, overshadowed and preaching the doom of the Euro for 3 years or more and they want to profit from it. What is new is to see what used to be a more mainstream news agency, CNN International, making such a out-lyer public commitment to the damnation of the Eurozone; willing it, hungering for it...

Read the rest of the mainstream press and you'll not find this degree of economic disaster porn. Someone here has taken an editorial decision which is out of step with observed reality according to other respectable news agency. The question is why, or better, 'who is paying'?
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:32 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 10):
What is new is to see what used to be a more mainstream news agency, CNN International, making such a out-lyer public commitment to the damnation of the Eurozone; willing it, hungering for it...

The BBC
MSNBC
Reuters
AP
and even Al Jazeera are running stories about the Eurozone collapse. It's not just CNN.
 
Derico
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:32 am

Well I can believe the assertion that the FT, Economist, and Bloomberg Television coterie have an agenda to flack, and that they machinate a variety of methods to cunningly intercalate it through their non-editorial reporting. Then, they feign like they do not and that they are simply reporting the news as it happens.

For 10 years these outlets have railed vitriolic against Argentina the country, not simply its government's economic policies. Now there would be nothing wrong with denouncing specific economic measures of the K-Gov, and I would actually tend to agree with them more than disagree on the economic philosophical argument. But they have gone beyond: not only predicting for 10 years that "next year there will be a crisis" (they have been obviously incorrect 10 times in a row), but not reporting one solitary positive economic news story. I am as much a doubter of current economic policy as any, but there have been some successes; they have blatantly ignored or dismissed them as fortuitous. Yet as soon as some hint of a hiccup surfaces, they pounce all over it. It is rather depraved to wish for whole countries to fail and people to suffer just to prove wrong adversarial policies to the ones you espouse.

BTW, the opposite is true: there are some publications that wax obdurate about Argentina, mainly by ignoring the fact that the "K model" is not progressive but regressive on the poor. The 50% of the country that is upper and middle class and whose wages can match inflation manage fine, the 25% that is working class just get by in the good times, a recession away from poverty (again); and the chronic 25% who are poor remain pawns of populist policy.

I can't comment on CNN as they have not been in this category in regards to the above; however, there really is little left of an independent media so I would not be surprised either. The era when listening to the radio and watching television was such an "event" that it made the news and it's fair, impartial deliverance a source of journalistic prestige at the personal and organizational level is long gone. Today it is about catching your (short) attention span to their broadcast; they know you have 200 other options AND the internet. In a way is understandable, but they should just come out and admit it.
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ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 11):

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 10):
What is new is to see what used to be a more mainstream news agency, CNN International, making such a out-lyer public commitment to the damnation of the Eurozone; willing it, hungering for it...

The BBC
MSNBC
Reuters
AP
and even Al Jazeera are running stories about the Eurozone collapse. It's not just CNN.

Read the articles. Even if the BBC is in the bitter anti-Euro category and has been for ever, the language and the assertions are far from the vitriol and 'Euro-geddon' of CNN; so too the choice of guests interviewed. French, German and other press are also speaking of the range of possibilities... a RANGE.. No-one however is LOBBYING for Euro-disaster in the mainstream media like CNN for the past 2 weeks.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
luckyone
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 13):
Read the articles. Even if the BBC is in the bitter anti-Euro category and has been for ever, the language and the assertions are far from the vitriol and 'Euro-geddon' of CNN; so too the choice of guests interviewed. French, German and other press are also speaking of the range of possibilities... a RANGE.. No-one however is LOBBYING for Euro-disaster in the mainstream media like CNN for the past 2 weeks.

While that may be your interpretation of the words, I must say I don't see much of a difference. The below comment:

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 10):
What is new is to see what used to be a more mainstream news agency, CNN International, making such a out-lyer public commitment to the damnation of the Eurozone; willing it, hungering for it...

Makes me curious if you just don't like what you're hearing from a source you respect. It's hardly an out-lyer if they're not the only ones reporting.
 
mham001
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:48 pm

So while European governments themselves are preparing for the possible collapse of the Euro, the press is not supposed to report it?
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:30 pm

How am I supposed to know that the Euro-collapse stories are the outliers and the Euro-is-just-fine stories aren't? Surely, there has to be some merit to all these stories
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ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:56 pm

it seems those commenting are not bothering to read and compare the articles, so I'll stop bothering, but a few final points:

- CNN in the US is very different in content from CNN International, based largely out of London
- the commentators and contributors are all different
- in the US you will not therefore get the same message, unless you go to the CNN International web-site, on which most reader comments reinforce what I'm saying.
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:18 am

I love the agitation of the US and British media against the Euro.  

But they miss to understand, that contrary to the US, Europe is dooing something against debts and the crisis. In 2-3 years the Euro will be strong as it was before and the Dollar still is in trouble, if the US ain't even bancrupt until then.

  
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luckyone
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:53 pm

I love the self-righteous elitism of some Europeans, who somehow think they're the only intellectually enlightened beings on the planet. I also love their unique ability to trick themselves into thinking they've coddled themselves into security, and who think they're somehow smarter than the rest of the world when it comes to fixing the exact same problem that was caused when they made the exact same stupidly short-sighted decisions as the Simpletons, plus a few unique to the implementation of the Euro. Then throw in the added difficulty of a cumbersome monetary arrangement that has the potential to cause the default of several countries because the Boomers sold their declining numbers of descendants a Ponzi scheme in the form of Social Welfare. Yeah, we Americans and Brits are nothing but sour grapes. We don't have brains. Angie and Sarko can implement all the sanctions policies they want, but if they do that there will be an inflection point at which the member states will drop the euro, and really only leave France and Germany holding the euro, and what good would that be...



[Edited 2011-12-05 08:08:40]

[Edited 2011-12-05 08:32:59]
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 17):
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 18):

Geez, I was just asking a question. I have no anti-Euro agenda and want the best for Europe, but why should I just ignore English-speaking countries' press? Because some Europeans say so? I find it very condescending. I'm sure, just like 99% of issues out there, that both sides have some merit to them. I don't think anyone is denying that there is a problem in Europe and with the Euro... How am I supposed to know that the "anglo-saxon" press is inherently wrong and the other European presses aren't?
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Asturias
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:11 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 17):
- CNN in the US is very different in content from CNN International, based largely out of London

Based in London, eh? I think you've answered your own question there, since they'd be fishing in a pool of editors raised in the world of the zombie-Empire attitude, Daily Telegraph xenophobia/paranoia and romantic naive notions on their precious pound.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
How am I supposed to know that the "anglo-saxon" press is inherently wrong and the other European presses aren't?

Here's the thing, we're acustomed to whole newspapers that range everywhere from rearranging facts to commit blatant lies (e.g. from the London Times to the Telegraph in the UK) and they're certainly among the European press (anglo-saxon to be sure, but European non-the-less) - and they're inherently and frequently wrong on EU issues.

Then there's the Guardian and to an extent even the BBC that are also European and anglo-saxon and on EU matters they're much more accurate (though by reflex negative, though I'm sure they try to be neutral).

Point being, the "anglo-saxon" press is not inherently wrong, though parts of it are - demonstrably. There's a market for such shoddy "reporting" in the anglosphere. It's sort of forgivable that the American press isn't always up to scratch when it comes to accuracy regarding EU/European matters in general, it's not their main concern and to be honest the reverse is true in European publications regarding Amrerica.

The belly of the beast is the UK. It's from the UK that America gets most its news (hence the anglosphere, a metaphorical bubble) and by receiving news mainly from the UK, American news agencies of all sorts and sizes are guaranteed the worst and shoddiest reporting on EU matters - which doesn't help matters at all.

A hypothetical example: imagine all news on what happened in Washington DC politics that news agencies in the UK would read were made by rural Alabamans. With full respect for rural Alabamans, one suspects there would be a certain slant to the reporting.

The reporting might even be generally correct, but in detail and spirit would fail to convey an accurate picture.

For instance a common phrase in the anglosphere press is the acknowledgement that the EU is a mammoth beaurocratic institution which does little else than push paper and invent crazy directives on the curvature of bananas. The less nuanced UK papers usually refer to them as "eurocrats", which is apparently quite witty in English, but sounds pretty stupid in other languages. But that's neither here nor there.

However, in a veeeeeery generalized sense that's "true". There are beaurocrats in the EU. They have made regulations on bananas. The problem is that counting every single person who works as a civil servant/official for the EU there are about 42,500 temporary and permanent EU officials. They work for 27 countries.

In the UK alone there are about 500,000 civil servants/officials. That's just for one country. So is it correct that the EU is swamped with "eurocrats"? Not by a long shot, it's actually quite lean - especially compared to how many countries it serves (about 1,500 "eurocrats" per EU country)

As for the bananas, well there's a farm subsidy. If you want it, you'll have to make a product that fulfills a quality standard. Long story short, instead of doling out money to any old fool who produces bananas of any old kind, there's a certain standard the EU is willing to subsidise.

Everyone is free to grow any banana they like, just not expect to get paid for it.

So in conclusion, it isn't really about who is "generally" wrong or right exactly, it's the tone, the attitude the facts omitted etc. that are key here - and in general, yes, anglosphere press is "correct" in a very broad sense - but has a knee-jerk reflex to paint some extra colors on that report which only serves to muddle the message and push an agenda. Sometimes that agenda is the agenda of the owner of the publication (e.g. Rupert Murdoch) or just to service a market that exists for such tripe.

I hope that clarifies somewhat.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
I love the self-righteous elitism of some Europeans, who somehow think they're the only intellectually enlightened beings on the planet.

Where did that come from??? Thanks for sharing, I guess  
Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
I also love their unique ability to trick themselves into thinking they've coddled themselves into security, and who think they're somehow smarter than the rest of the world when it comes to fixing the exact same problem that was caused when they made the exact same stupidly short-sighted decisions as the Simpletons, plus a few unique to the implementation of the Euro.

It may be shocking for you to realize that it's *not* the same problem the Eurozone countries are experiencing as the USA has - in fact it would be fair to say that no single Eurozone country is experiencing quite the same problem.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
Then throw in the added difficulty of a cumbersome monetary arrangement that has the potential to cause the default of several countries because the Boomers sold their declining numbers of descendants a Ponzi scheme in the form of Social Welfare.

Again, this may come as a shock to you but many, if not all EU countries have different pension schemes from the USA - some are as far from this "ponzi" scheme you use in the USA (i.e. pay as you go etc.) and persons actually set aside their own pension for the future in a mutual fund. In other words, I am not paying the pension of my grandparents. When it comes time for me pensioning, I draw upon what I put in the fund.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
Yeah, we Americans and Brits are nothing but sour grapes. We don't have brains. Angie and Sarko can implement all the sanctions policies they want, but if they do that there will be an inflection point at which the member states will drop the euro, and really only leave France and Germany holding the euro, and what good would that be...

Angie and Sarko don't control much - if anything - in the EU. Again, perhaps this is a shock to you.

asturias
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zhiao
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:21 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 18):
But they miss to understand, that contrary to the US, Europe is dooing something against debts and the crisis. In 2-3 years the Euro will be strong as it was before and the Dollar still is in trouble, if the US ain't even bancrupt until then.


And Keynes would say that contrary to Europe, the US is doing something about growth via stimulating tax and spending measures. However, this is not 100% correct; local budgets have been slashed all across the US due to balanced amendments, and the Fed Govt deficit next year is projected to be significantly smaller.

Unfortunately, because of austerity, GDP growth will now be so bad for the next few years that debt will be HIGHER anyway. Countries accross the board will be downgraded anyway, because of weak growth. Europe is doing what Keynes said not to do, and will pay dearly. For this quarter alone, there will be a contraction for all the large Euro nations. Italy may shrink at an annualized rate of 4%, France is about to be dowgraded by two notches, etc.

Why are the ratings agencies downgrading countries after they have made austerity plans? Answer: because it's also about growth and none of the austerity plans help growth.

[Edited 2011-12-05 23:29:54]
 
zhiao
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:36 am

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Have you noticed the vitriolic ant-Euro propaganda campaign coming out of CNN International? Every 2 hours or so a new damningly grim article is published arguing that the total collapse of the Euro is immanent. They are even doing a'10 day countdown to Euro-apocalypse'. All guests interviewed are British representatives of the viralently anti-Euro school of Euro-skeptics, aparantly longing for, hungingering for the collapse of the Euro. This is clearly not journalism, but lobbying. Since this crisis is largely on of sentiment, CNN must take a share of responsibility for it.
_t3/

Then turn off the channel. There's been more anti-euro rhetoric coming from the likes of Der Spiegel and various Continental sources, including former finance ministers. How come you do not mention them, or the Chinese media, where a finance minister said that Europe was "lazy" and "slow"? Nobody on this board said anything about this.
 
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:58 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 17):
- in the US you will not therefore get the same message, unless you go to the CNN International web-site, on which most reader comments reinforce what I'm saying.

Well, really what you're saying is that CNN International is a UK production, which is agreed, but in fact US sources delivering news to US audiences mention the Euro crises not in any way "lobbying for Euro failures", if its mentioned at all.

The Americans are second-guessed around the world for everything they do, now when the Euros do something so signficant it captures world attention some are crying to be left alone by the unfair foreign media....but the next time America does something unpopular these same people in Europe and their attacking media see it as a natural right to hope for American bankruptcy and failure - now you get to see, briefly, what its like to be the center of world media attention that isn't so proud of yourself as you are.

Pu
 
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:01 am

If it's not too off-topic (sorry, mods!) can someone 'splain to this here unedumacated gooficus with none of them thar college dee-grees why the euro is in danger of going away? I thought the point of it was to challenge the mighty US    , and I furthermore thought just about everybody outside of the U.S. relished the notion of us being viably challenged (the view from the inside is different of course, but not always for the internationally-assumed reasons!).

One of the things I cherish in life is variety. I therefore enjoy the notion of the euro going away, NOT because of economic spread-eagleism, but because I'd rather live in a world colored by Irish punts, French francs (when traded in the U.S. of course they're called Freedom Francs), Deutsch marks, Austrian schillings, Dutch guilders, and Swedish kroner than in a world where there's none of those things and just one, monotonous Euro in their place.

[Edited 2011-12-06 01:49:13]
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luckyone
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:41 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 21):

"Again, this may come as a shock to you but many, if not all EU countries have different pension schemes from the USA - some are as far from this "ponzi" scheme you use in the USA (i.e. pay as you go etc.) and persons actually set aside their own pension for the future in a mutual fund. In other words, I am not paying the pension of my grandparents. When it comes time for me pensioning, I draw upon what I put in the fund. "
Unless that is a bank account in your name untouched by the government, that "fund" is coming from current taxpayers regardless of how much you yourself actually put into it, and that doesn't account for things like healthcare, which also comes from the current tax payers. If that's the case I would be delighted, but having seen the way government mismanages funds seemingly for its own amusement you'll forgive for being skeptical...

"Angie and Sarko don't control much - if anything - in the EU. Again, perhaps this is a shock to you. "
No, but they are the ones at the public front to hammer out this magical deal to fix the euro. How long before the plan they've introduced blows up in their face when it's impossible for even France and Germany to meet its conditions?

"It may be shocking for you to realize that it's *not* the same problem the Eurozone countries are experiencing as the USA has - in fact it would be fair to say that no single Eurozone country is experiencing quite the same problem."

The last time I looked you've spent more than you take in, hence the debt crisis. At the end of the day that's the same problem the United States has. What you actually spent it on is mostly irrelevant.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:33 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 24):
The Americans are second-guessed around the world for everything they do, now when the Euros do something so signficant it captures world attention some are crying to be left alone by the unfair foreign media....but the next time America does something unpopular these same people in Europe and their attacking media see it as a natural right to hope for American bankruptcy and failure - now you get to see, briefly, what its like to be the center of world media attention that isn't so proud of yourself as you are.

   Never thought of it this way, but I think a bit of my discontent is summed up in your post...

Quoting Asturias (Reply 21):

Makes more sense, thanks for a non-extreme explanation!
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Asturias
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:30 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 26):
The last time I looked you've spent more than you take in, hence the debt crisis. At the end of the day that's the same problem the United States has. What you actually spent it on is mostly irrelevant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15734280

Quote:
But Spain has been a model European. Unlike, say, Germany.

There's a growth problem, we did not spend more than we took in, quite the contrary - only after 2008 did Spain start to spend more than it earned.

Quote:

But the Spanish government then proceeded to run a balanced budget on average - that is to say, its borrowing was zero - every year until the eve of the 2008 financial crisis.

Things are more nuanced than the picture you're presenting. If you're at all interested, then read the BBC article. It's fair and balanced.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
Makes more sense, thanks for a non-extreme explanation!

Thanks!!  

asturias
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par13del
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting Asturias (Reply 21):
The belly of the beast is the UK. It's from the UK that America gets most its news (hence the anglosphere, a metaphorical bubble) and by receiving news mainly from the UK, American news agencies of all sorts and sizes are guaranteed the worst and shoddiest reporting on EU matters - which doesn't help matters at all.

So the non-UK countries and their media care enough about what Americans and other english speakers think about issues in their countires that they ensure that they have english versions of their media and web site available?

I will revert to google to get english news sites from France and Germany, I use CNN FOX MSNBC for the US, BBC, Mirror, Daily Mail and Telegraph for the UK, CBC for Canada, hopefully I will be successfull so that I can now get a more balanced view of the continent versus what the native english speaker provide.

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ozglobal
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:13 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 21):

The belly of the beast is the UK. It's from the UK that America gets most its news (hence the anglosphere, a metaphorical bubble) and by receiving news mainly from the UK, American news agencies of all sorts and sizes are guaranteed the worst and shoddiest reporting on EU matters - which doesn't help matters at all.

A hypothetical example: imagine all news on what happened in Washington DC politics that news agencies in the UK would read were made by rural Alabamans. With full respect for rural Alabamans, one suspects there would be a certain slant to the reporting.

The reporting might even be generally correct, but in detail and spirit would fail to convey an accurate picture.
Quoting par13del (Reply 29):
So the non-UK countries and their media care enough about what Americans and other english speakers think about issues in their countires that they ensure that they have english versions of their media and web site available?

I will revert to google to get english news sites from France and Germany, I use CNN FOX MSNBC for the US, BBC, Mirror, Daily Mail and Telegraph for the UK, CBC for Canada, hopefully I will be successfull so that I can now get a more balanced view of the continent versus what the native english speaker provide.

What's surprising is that otherwise press savy people are not aware of this. The angloshere media bubble is alive and well!!

French world news in English: France 24

http://www.france24.com/en/

German world news in English: Deutsche Welle

http://www.dw-world.de/
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
luckyone
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:07 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 28):
There's a growth problem, we did not spend more than we took in, quite the contrary -
Quoting Asturias (Reply 28):
only after 2008 did Spain start to spend more than it earned.

So you admit, in a circuitous fashion, that you've been spending more than you earned, and your earnings may have been artificially inflated. And it only took three years of borrowing for the rest of the bad policies to catch up to you. Ok, cool. Got it.
 
janmnastami
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:40 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 29):
So the non-UK countries and their media care enough about what Americans and other english speakers think about issues in their countires that they ensure that they have english versions of their media and web site available?

Most important daily newspaper in Italy:
http://www.corriere.it/english/

Italian top news agency:
http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/english.shtml
 
Asturias
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:02 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 29):
So the non-UK countries and their media care enough about what Americans and other english speakers think about issues in their countires that they ensure that they have english versions of their media and web site available?

They try, (see ozglobal's and jamnastami's posts) but I've seen little evidence that the American press is generally aware of such things as english versions of "indiginous" media. Of course many countries are concerned and try to penetrate the anglosphere, but with limited success - if any.

Americans seem to know only about UK media, which is almost exclusively quoted - even by "enlightened" Americans (i.e. those who actively try to look outside the bubble)

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 30):
What's surprising is that otherwise press savy people are not aware of this. The angloshere media bubble is alive and well!!

Indeed!!

Quoting luckyone (Reply 31):
So you admit, in a circuitous fashion, that you've been spending more than you earned, and your earnings may have been artificially inflated. And it only took three years of borrowing for the rest of the bad policies to catch up to you. Ok, cool. Got it.

No - are you trying to be obtuse or what?

asturias
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par13del
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:26 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 30):
What's surprising is that otherwise press savy people are not aware of this.

Thanks guys, I have added them to my list, in all honesty other than always shilling on their own agenda I thought the BBC and other UK's site gave a good enough spread covering general news from the continent, opinions and general commentary is something else, why I usually use multiple sites as no news site today is neutral.
 
NAV20
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:40 am

Quoting Airstud (Reply 25):
can someone 'splain to this here unedumacated gooficus with none of them thar college dee-grees why the euro is in danger of going away?

Sure you're kidding, Airstud, but good fun anyway.....  

The short answer is that 'no-one's in charge.' The Euro is a 'common currency' but, when it was set up, it proved politically impossible to back it with Europe-wide 'sovereignty' - which is what enables individual governments to run their economies as they wish, including devaluing their currencies if 'that's what it takes.'

The short answer to the problems that many Eurozone countries are facing is to devalue - making exports cheaper and imports more expensive. But that option is not available to them - it can and is effectively being 'vetoed' by the more prosperous countries like Germany (not that one can blame the latter unduly).

Quoting Airstud (Reply 25):
I thought the point of it was to challenge the mighty US $

I agree that that was probably a big part of it.......... One could say that the Euro was set up more as a political measure than an economic one. It's rapidly becoming clear that countries like Britain and Denmark were very sensible to stay out of it.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 25):
because I'd rather live in a world colored by Irish punts, French francs (when traded in the U.S. of course they're called Freedom Francs), Deutsch marks, Austrian schillings, Dutch guilders, and Swedish kroner than in a world where there's none of those things and just one, monotonous Euro in their place.

Looks like you could get your wish!   The way things stand, anything's possible......

janmnastami, thanks for the links to European sources in English. But I looked through them both and couldn't find any stories focussing directly on the Eurozone crisis. The nearest I found was a story in 'Corriere' that mainly claimed that it was all Berlusconi's fault!  

On the other hand, just googling the general subject, I immediately found a New York Times story quoting no less than the president of the European Central Bank warning of perils ahead for the Euro:-

"FRANKFURT — The European Central Bank warned Monday of a perilous year ahead as the sovereign debt crisis collides with slower economic growth and a dearth of market financing for banks.

"The dire prediction, contained in the E.C.B.’s twice-yearly report on the risks to the euro area financial system, came as E.U. governments fell short of their target to expand their backup plan for the euro by channeling more resources through the International Monetary Fund."


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/bu...s-ahead-for-euro-zone-economy.html

On the thread subject, is it possible that the only difference between outside news organisations and Eurozone-based ones is that the former are printing the relevant 'bad news' stories, and the latter, for the moment, simply aren't?

[Edited 2011-12-20 03:51:55]
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slz396
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:30 pm

Meanwhile, for a reality check, this is what Mario Draghi, the most powerful man in Europe right now, had to say to the EU Parliament recently on all the doomsday scenario's one can read in the Anglo-saxon press, notably in articles like the one above...

"I have no doubts whatsoever about the strength of the euro, about its permanence, about its irreversibility. However, you have a lot of people, especially outside the euro area, who spend a lot of time on what I'd call morbid speculation, constantly asking 'what happens if...? What if... ? [only] to come up with catastrophic scenarios: the one-currency is irreversible."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16253026

Furthermore, in an unprecedented way, Mr Draghi clearly expressed his dislike about how the Financial Times recently published an in-depth interview with him under a misleading title, snubbing the newspaper by saying: 'they made the headline'.

[Edited 2011-12-20 04:53:27]
 
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par13del
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 36):
"I have no doubts whatsoever about the strength of the euro, about its permanence, about its irreversibility. However, you have a lot of people, especially outside the euro area, who spend a lot of time on what I'd call morbid speculation, constantly asking 'what happens if...? What if... ? [only] to come up with catastrophic scenarios: the one-currency is irreversible."

There is a lot of truth in what he says, one of them is that the Euro was never configured or set up with an exit strategy, on the other hand, the global financial markets and theire users are within their rights to question what is being done to shore up the currency, saying it won't fail, cannot be allowed to fail is one thing, doing something tangible which dependent economies and their experts can see and evaluate is another story.

If they do not want the doomsayers to have anything to say don't give them any reason to say anything, after all, what exactlty are they commenting on, they have no say in what is being done in Europe by their governments and the EU officialdom.
 
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:29 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 36):
Furthermore, in an unprecedented way, Mr Draghi clearly expressed his dislike about how the Financial Times recently published an in-depth interview with him under a misleading title, snubbing the newspaper by saying: 'they made the headline'

Hi, slz396, good to see you!  

The headline in question read, "Draghi warns on eurozone break-up". What Draghi actually said was as follows:-

"Mario Draghi has warned of the costs of a eurozone break-up, breaching a taboo for a president of the European Central Bank, even as he sought to play down market expectations about the ECB’s role in combating the sovereign debt crisis.

"Mr Draghi’s willingness to discuss a scenario for Europe’s 13-year-old monetary union that his predecessor, Jean-Claude Trichet, simply described as “absurd,” highlights the high stakes in the eurozone debt crisis, which has rattled global financial markets.

"In his first interview since becoming ECB president on November 1, Mr Draghi said struggling eurozone countries that quit the currency bloc would face still greater economic pain. For remaining members, European Union law would have been broken and “you never know how it ends really,” he said."


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/15bca...1a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1h515t2I4

Anyone else - apart from slz396 - see any material difference between the headline - "Draghi warns on eurozone break-up" and the text in the actual article - "Mario Draghi has warned of the costs of a eurozone break-up"?

My guess is that Draghi instantly 'got a rocket' from a furious 'Merkozy' for even mentioning any breakup, and resorted to the usual tactic of politicians - trying to "shoot the messenger."

Well done the journalist for getting the 'break-up' quote, I'd say. AND also well done to the sub-editor who came up with the headline.....

There are very few truthful/realistic things being said by the 'public figures' about this (frightening) 'Euro-mess.' Congratulations to the FT for 'capturing' even a particle of 'truth'........

[Edited 2011-12-20 06:34:30]
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slz396
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 38):
Anyone else - apart from slz396 - see any material difference between the headline - "Draghi warns on eurozone break-up" and the text in the actual article - "Mario Draghi has warned of the costs of a eurozone break-up"?

Anybody else? Like maybe Draghi himself then?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 38):
My guess is that Draghi instantly 'got a rocket' from a furious 'Merkozy' for even mentioning any breakup, and resorted to the usual tactic of politicians - trying to "shoot the messenger."

Spinning the fact, again, are you?

No need for wild guessing and negative conjecture, since the interesting thing is, the interview was actually taped and in it you can hear Mr Draghi mention the absurdness of a break-up and the insurmountable costs of all the scenario's to it circulating in the anglo-saxon press as a proof of just how irreversible the Euro truely is, yet all of that was completely left out by the author, who elected to simply focus on the fact the ECB President took the word "break-up" in the mouth for the very first time! Well yes he did, to underpin with facts it was not going to happen, something which you can also hear him repeat live for yourself if you click the video link in the BBC link I provided.

First hand information is always much better than reported hearsay, isn't it?

Clearly, selective quoting has happened by the FT, much to the annoyance of Mr. Draghi it seems, hence him publically snubbing the reporting by the financial newspaper in an unprecendented move by an ECB President, which if I were the editor-in-chief would worry me greatly...

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 38):
Well done

The FT has publically been discredited by the President of the ECB for reporting factually wrong information and spinning quotes in order to fit their point-of-view.; for tabloid readers like you, it may be a job well done by them indeed, but I am sure the professional readers of the newspaper will not be amuzed by all this and the editor-in-chief of the newspaper will be hoping no repercussions come from this loss in credibility.

Do this twice, and the FT goes the way of NOTW: it only takes a snap-of-a-finger really to distroy a reputation of credibility, and Mario Draghi -whose words are read like coming straight from an oracle- has just put his 2 fingers within millimeters from eachother when it comes to the FT....

Scary times for the FT, for sure, which seems to have overplayed it hands, as none of its doomsday scenario's is materializing, quite on the contrary even: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16266836

[Edited 2011-12-20 07:25:41]
 
DETA737
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 39):
Do this twice, and the FT goes the way of NOTW: it only takes a snap-of-a-finger really to distroy a reputation of credibility, and Mario Draghi -whose words are read like coming straight from an oracle- has just put his 2 fingers within millimeters from eachother when it comes to the FT....

Mario Draghi an oracle? Not quite. Let's look at some of his past quotes:


February 13, 2010
“If the Greek government adjusts its budget with determination, with careful monitoring by the European Commission and the ECB, the markets will subscribe new securities as old issues fall due,” Draghi said. “It is nevertheless important that the euro-area countries have expressed their intention, should it prove necessary, to take decisive and coordinated action to ensure financial stability.”

March 5, 2010
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a0ZjKtlB87Y8
Saying that the markets were convinced by the success of Greece's bond auction.

I'd say that Mr Draghi along with most of the EU leaders have been consistently a day late and a euro short in their "solutions" to this crisis.
 
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pu
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:45 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 39):
whose words are read like coming straight from an oracle-

Perceived as an oracle perhaps by those who have no other choice but to desperately keep doubling up their bet on the euro, but outside of Brussels and Frankfurt he's perceived as just another talking head with a biased point of view.

The idea that a Bank of Italy governor like Draghi can ruin the Financial Times by snapping his fingers was the best laugh I've had in a few days, thanks.

Pu
 
LAXintl
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting slz396 (Reply 36):
"I have no doubts whatsoever about the strength of the euro,

Ha ha --

Sounds like AA CEO and senior management team saying they have no plans whatsoever for Ch11 Bankruptcy only 1-month prior to the carriers filing.


Does anyone really believe Mr. Draghi or other will come out and honestly air their concerns? It would hasten the collapse even faster.
Right now there is a mad scramble to hold things together, but to believe that everything is calm or is under control is living with your head planted in the sand.
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NAV20
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting slz396 (Reply 39):
you can hear Mr Draghi mention the absurdness of a break-up and the insurmountable costs of all the scenario's to it circulating in the anglo-saxon press as a proof of just how irreversible the Euro truely is

Just checked your profile for the first time, slz396; and I discover that you're a 'policy adviser' with the Banque Nationale de Belgique. I'm surprised that anyone professionally involved in the banking field could possibly use words like 'absurd' and 'irreversible' in connection with a mere currency. After all, the currencies of pretty well the whole of mainland Europe collapsed and had to be completely (and successfully) 'rebuilt' twice in the last century (in 1929 and 1945).

I'd have thought that the proper role/viewpoint of professionals in present circumstances would be to hope for the best but also prepare for the worst? That appears to be the stance that the Bank of England is taking, as evidenced by this interview with the deputy governor:-

"The Bank of England is making preparations to support UK banks in the event of a break-up of the eurozone, deputy governor Charlie Bean has confirmed, describing the present state of the single currency area as a "worrying situation".

"Mr Bean said that the Bank has recently introduced a temporary loan facility as a precaution, for use in the event of contagion from the eurozone crisis endangering British institutions.

"The deputy governor predicted "pretty flat" economic conditions in the UK over the next six months, and did not rule out a "double-dip" recession. But he forecast that a sharp decline in inflation would see spending and growth begin to rise again by the time of the Olympics in the summer.

"He did not rule out a further round of quantitative easing at the time of the Bank's Monetary Policy Committee meeting in February."

"In an interview on BBC Radio 4, Mr Bean was asked if he feared a collapse in the single currency, with one or more of the 17 member states leaving the euro.

"He replied: "I don't want to put probabilities on it breaking up, but it is clearly a worrying situation. Countries eventually may feel that they are better off outside the eurozone than in it. One thing that is important to stress is that it is not easy for a country to leave. It is quite a disruptive thing."


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...06qPnw?docId=N0562631324390089155A

For the record, my own feeling is that the Euro will probably remain 'intact,' and continue to be used by the countries with stronger economies; but that some at least of the 'smaller fish' will press to be allowed to revert to their own currencies.

Further, I expect that some at least of the five countries that are still using their own currencies, but are bound by treaty eventually to join the Euro (everyone bar the UK and Denmark, and including places like Sweden) will press either to be relieved of that obligation, or to have their entry to the Eurozone indefinitely postponed.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
slz396
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:30 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 43):
Just checked your profile for the first time, slz396


A couple of years ago, I litterally wiped the floor with you when you were giving your doomsday analysis on EADS in the wake of BAe's surprise put option for their 20% share in Airbus. As ever, your opinion was 'underpinned' with press articles from the well known Murdock sources.... ROTFL

Now, do you want me to remind you how events turned out since then in relation to that discussion? 
BAe are doing great, arent they? Hiring thousands of extra staff next year, expanding their backlog, making a profit.. Oh, wait, that's EADS I am looking at! Where's BAe's result..; euh... OOOOOPS 

Anyway, enjoy speading your doomsday analysis on the Euro, again based on 'facts' from Murdock papers, but don't be surprised reality is going to go the other way once again: splendid isolation is not your free choice as you're made to believe, but merely a consequence of the total lack of understanding of the continent the UK belongs to, like it or not.

[Edited 2011-12-21 01:38:26]
 
janmnastami
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:12 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 41):
The idea that a Bank of Italy governor like Draghi can ruin the Financial Times by snapping his fingers was the best laugh I've had in a few days, thanks.

Do you have a problem with the Italian central bank?
 
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pu
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RE: CNN Lobbying Opinion For Euro Failure

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting janmnastami (Reply 45):
Do you have a problem with the Italian central bank?

Of course not, but no national bank governor is capable of bringing down a respected international financial newspaper, as was alleged elsewhere on this thread. Even when he gets promoted. Sarkozy can not do much harm to Le Monde, Merkel can't ruin Der Spiegel and Obama can't bring down Fox News....despite the annoying fact all these publications are routinely critical.

Likewise, Draghi is unable to 'snap his fingers' and cause the Financial Times to fail....The fact that FT so rudely does not endorse 100% of what Draghi says - which should be the requirement of all journalists reporting on the ECB according to the tone and implicit points made on this thread - does not mean he can do much about their insolence.

Pu

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