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2707200X
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Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:03 am

The Iowa Caucus is ending in a cliffhanger between Rick Santorum and Mitt Romney. MSNBC reports at 11:45 EST with 96% returns that Rick Santorum has 29,051 votes and Mitt Romney has 28,938 votes with a difference of 113 votes and the closest approach with just 13 votes.

Rick Santorum and Ron Paul are the big winners in my opinion. This morning Santorum pooled in 3rd place with 15% and not long ago Paul was not projected to reach where he is now. At one time he lead early in the caucus vote tally.

Rick Perry is reassessing his campaign as of 12:00 EST.

As Mitt and Rick are tied at 25% one thing is for sure, it is anyone's game. Are you surprised by how the caucus went today? I sure was.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:19 am

Rick Santorum??? Ughhh, the guy who wants laws against anal and oral sex (in addition to all the obvious social conservative stuff)

What is this country coming to?
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:37 am

It's Mike Huckabee all over again...

Rick Santorum will not win because he has put all of his eggs in Iowa and has little infrastructure in New Hampshire but he has made a visit or two in SC

I must admit Santorum did look presidential tonight....

Bachmann and Perry are embarrassments...
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:23 am

Are the Iowa Republicans just playing a really bad joke?
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:15 am

It looks like Mitt Romney will take the W over Santorum by 14 votes statewide...
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
It looks like Mitt Romney will take the W over Santorum by 14 votes statewide...

They're still counting votes. Romney is ahead now by 8 votes.
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:46 am

The Republican Chairman of the Iowa GOP has called Romney with 30,015 votes vs. 30,007 votes, the winner with 8 votes above Santorum.
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:55 am

Romney kicked Santorum's arse!

http://graphics.latimes.com/2012-election-gop-results-map-iowa/

        
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dxing
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 2):
Rick Santorum will not win because he has put all of his eggs in Iowa and has little infrastructure in New Hampshire but he has made a visit or two in SC

That's a good assesment. But now that he has come in a close second two things will happen. Money will start to flow in, and the Romney attack PAC will turn the blow torch on him. His only hope is that Perry and Bachman will give him their support and Perry will give him his money.

Paul is a one trick pony. Unlike Iowa he won't be able to pull in college kids from surrounding States that are on a school break after this point. The rest of his support is maxed out. Expect to see him fade quickly after this.

Do not count out Newt. He may have a second coming yet.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 8):

That's a good assesment. But now that he has come in a close second two things will happen. Money will start to flow in, and the Romney attack PAC will turn the blow torch on him. His only hope is that Perry and Bachman will give him their support and Perry will give him his money.

Paul is a one trick pony. Unlike Iowa he won't be able to pull in college kids from surrounding States that are on a school break after this point. The rest of his support is maxed out. Expect to see him fade quickly after this.

Do not count out Newt. He may have a second coming yet.

The thing is Mitt Romney did not even try as hard as he could for Iowa....he had only 5 full-time staffers as compared with 52 in 08.....and he still gets the W

Ron Paul has money and organization...he should do strong in NH but Florida will be his last stand where its make or break....

Everything Newt does will be good for Santorum, Newt wants Romney's blood and I don't even think deep down he wants to be president...he just wants to see Romney fail...
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 10):
Ron Paul has money and organization...he should do strong in NH but Florida will be his last stand where its make or break....

But the big difference will be, as I said, the support he got from outside intervention in the form of students on break will not be there in NH or beyond. I doubt he will do well in SC either. His biggest threat is to go third party and hand the election to the President as Ross Perot did for President Clinton.
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
But the big difference will be, as I said, the support he got from outside intervention in the form of students on break will not be there in NH or beyond. I doubt he will do well in SC either.

Ron Paul did well among Independents and young people...exactly the same as Obama...South Carolina is predictable....but Florida is the state to watch simply because of the amount of money and resources it takes to wage a campaign and it's where the votes are
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
His biggest threat is to go third party and hand the election to the President as Ross Perot did for President Clinton.

He has stated many times he doesn't want to, so I don't think he would. He is kind of shady about it. There are many people, however (probably myself included) that are going to support Gary Johnson / Libertarian if Paul doesn't get the nomination. Would this hand the election to Obama? Maybe, but my conscience cannot vote for someone like Santorum
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Ken777
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

Are the Iowa Republicans just playing a really bad joke?

No. Iowa Republicans ARE a really bad joke.  
Quoting dxing (Reply 8):
Paul is a one trick pony.

Paul is simply a thorn in every other candidates side. I think the guy is simply on an ego trip and wouldn't accept the nomination if he won all the primaries.

Quoting dxing (Reply 8):
He may have a second coming yet.

Or third. Or fourth. Or fifth.

I tink Newt will continue to run and, especially, fight to keep Romney from winning.

When you think about it, that is where Newt can bring in the contributions - "protecting" the GOP from Willard.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
I think the guy is simply on an ego trip and wouldn't accept the nomination if he won all the primaries.

What makes you think that???
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 9):
Ron Paul has money and organization...he should do strong in NH but Florida will be his last stand where its make or break....

Florida will be interesting, but last I heard, the GOP stripped Florida of half their delegates over a scheduling spat. It still matters, but only half as much.

The way Paul is pulling in independents and ex-Obama voters, it frankly doesn't matter how the vote turns out in Florida, you need independents and ex-Obama voters and Ron Paul will *definitely* deliver it.
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
The way Paul is pulling in independents and ex-Obama voters, it frankly doesn't matter how the vote turns out in Florida, you need independents and ex-Obama voters and Ron Paul will *definitely* deliver it.

I love Paul, but I don't see it happening in FL.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...can_presidential_primary-1597.html

Maybe there hasn't been too much advertising going on there, but he is polling pretty poorly there. Hopefully Iowa and NH spark things up a bit
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
There are many people, however (probably myself included) that are going to support Gary Johnson / Libertarian if Paul doesn't get the nomination. Would this hand the election to Obama? Maybe, but my conscience cannot vote for someone like Santorum

I wish I could put you on an RU+1 list. No homo. Which, would soon be illegal anyway.

I am not quite sure why so much attention is paid to Iowa. Iowa is no way, shape, form or measure representative of the entire USA - in fact, I would say as a predominantly white farmer state the results out of Iowa are reflective of a minority at best.

http://blog.spreadingsantorum.com/
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PPVRA
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):

Sorry, I wasn't clear - the part about definitely delivering is about the general election, not the primaries.

My point being, Paul is the best GOP candidate out there to win Florida comes November given how he rakes in the independent vote.
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting something (Reply 17):
I wish I could put you on an RU+1 list. No homo.

Lol back at ya. Learned quite a bit from you  
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Sorry, I wasn't clear - the part about definitely delivering is about the general election, not the primaries.

My point being, Paul is the best GOP candidate out there to win Florida comes November given how he rakes in the independent vote.

Oh that makes more sense. I have my doubts now though, many think Paul is a racist. I'm not too sure what he was doing in the 80s, but his voting record seems to be raceless and even protecting minorities (he is against the death penalty because it affects the poor and minorities more, he states.) Also, he is for pardoning all non-violent drug charges, something that would help many minorities (not saying they commit more drug crime, saying they get punished more.) But there are issues like him being against civil rights acts--not because he is racist, but because he sees it as the federal government pushing laws on the states. Of course this is very easy bait for people, and I'd even argue the Constitution allows laws like this (the Constitution is what he bases everything on.)

In the general election, I agree, he probably would win against Obama if everyone knows his stances and no one mud slings him. But he is already portrayed as a kook, racist, and old, and I fear that is enough to turn many off. Plus the "Paulbots" on the internet have pissed many people off...

tl;dr his views would win vs Obama IMO, but his "baggage" (true or not) may cost him
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
What makes you think that???

The guy has spent too many years being against something, not for building the country. He is also the most aggressive isolationist in my memory.

Basically I think he knows he would be a failure as President jun terms of international affairs and protection of the country. He would also find failure after failure when it comes to the changes he wants when it comes to butchering the government of the people.

Quoting something (Reply 17):
I am not quite sure why so much attention is paid to Iowa.

Because it is the only game in town for this one day. That means it brings in the money and related media coverage.

After this last round I'm thinking Iowa gets this political favor in order to help their economy every four years. Just a stimulus for them and a pain for the rest of the country.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Paul is the best GOP candidate out there to win Florida comes November given how he rakes in the independent vote.

Paul has a problem with a racist past. He says he didn't know what was written above his signature. That's mighty queer for an MD who has written on tens of thousands of medical charts, prescriptions and doctor's orders. Sure, he wasn't aware of what was sent out with his name on it and the checks coming in.

And I don't believe Rubio would join him in order for him to carry Florida.
 
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
isolationist

Sigh... there is a big difference between that and non-intervention. Funny thing is most people I talk to think we should pull most troops out from around the world but have a problem with Paul's policy... it is basically the same
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MD-90
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 20):
Paul has a problem with a racist past.

BS. He isn't and has never been a racist.

What he's guilty of is improperly policing the content of his newsletter, which is far less damning than the mainstream media's smear campaign using those 20-25 year old newsletters against him.

Quote:
In the long run, the only way racism can be overcome is through the philosophy of individualism, which I have promoted throughout my life. Our rights come to us not because we belong to some group, but our rights come to us as individuals. And it is as individuals that we should judge one another.

Racism is a particularly odious form of collectivism whereby individuals are treated not on their merits but on the basis of group identity. Nothing in my political philosophy, which is the exact opposite of the racial totalitarianism of the twentieth century, gives aid or comfort to such thinking. To the contrary, my philosophy of individualism is the most radical intellectual challenge to racism ever posed.

Government exacerbates racial thinking and undermines individualism because its very existence encourages people to organize along racial lines in order to lobby for benefits for their group. That lobbying, in turn, creates animosity and suspicion among all groups, each of which believes that it is getting less of its fair share than the others.

Instead, we should quit thinking in terms of race—yes, in 2008 it is still necessary to say that we should Stop thinking in terms of race—and recognize that freedom and prosperity benefit all Americans.”

Ron Paul, ‘The Revolution: A Manifesto', 2008
 
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 22):
What he's guilty of is improperly policing the content of his newsletter, which is far less damning than the mainstream media's smear campaign using those 20-25 year old newsletters against him.

It says a lot about the company he keeps. Hence why White supremacist groups support him. Improperly policing the content of his newsletter also shows how incompetent he would be with his own administration. Just imagine the loonies that would slide through the cracks of a Paul administration.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):

Who do you like again?
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:31 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 24):
Who do you like again?

Cherry Poppens.
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Ken777
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:54 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 22):
What he's guilty of is improperly policing the content of his newsletter,

Good excuse.

Which is why I brought up the importance of a Doctor's Signature. You really believe Paul is that irresponsible with his signature? Especially when he is getting paid for the use of his name?

Just how dumb to you think Paul is? Or we are?
 
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Hence why White supremacist groups support him.

I never get why people say this. It's like saying the democrat party is supported by the people that milk the welfare system (this minority of people support them) ... If you listen to much of what he says you can tell he isn't racist today. Who knows maybe he was in the 80s but his voting record suggests otherwise...
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
Who do you like again?

Cherry Poppens.

Just sayin.....hey are you gonna get on Santorum for the things he said about black people on welfare and not working?
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
I never get why people say this. It's like saying the democrat party is supported by the people that milk the welfare system (this minority of people support them) ... If you listen to much of what he says you can tell he isn't racist today. Who knows maybe he was in the 80s but his voting record suggests otherwise...

People are saying this because these White supremacist groups are supporting his 2012 campaign.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 28):
hey are you gonna get on Santorum for the things he said about black people on welfare and not working?

I take it you're trying to challenge me to see if I support Santorum. I've been slamming Santorum for almost my entire 11 years here at Airliners.net. The guy doesn't have a chance and I never liked him to begin with. I never liked him even back in 1994 when he was first elected to the Senate.
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:37 pm

I don't know much about Rick Santorum other than the fact that he seems to be an ultra-religious and looking rather extreme in his religious beliefs.

Mitt Romney is known for being a Mormon. I have no idea how religious he is and if he is a practicing Mormon in his daily life and really believing in the teachings of the Mormon religion and a follower of the teachings of his church. From what I know Mormons are even discouraged from drinking coffee or tea not talking about alcohol. They seem to have to abide to a whole set of strict rules as described here and they believe that the Mormon religion is the only true religion.

http://www.poinkie.com/2009/04/mormon-rules.html

I am not sure if candidates with such religious views can be compatible with being a President for one and all.

I would not want to see either of them in the White House. I can just imagine how they feel about Muslim countries they might even want to bomb the hell out of them...
A Furioso on one side with another Furioso on the other could be quite dangerous.

 Wow!  

If either one of these two gets the Republican nomination I think Obama will have an easy win and there is no doubt he will do a second term.

What say you?

 

[Edited 2012-01-06 11:41:31]
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Superfly
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
I don't know much about Rick Santorum other than the fact that he seems to be an ultra-religious and looking rather extreme in his religious beliefs.

He is just a flash in the pan and will be eliminated very soon. He was a 2-term Senator and got his arse handed to him in a 18 point blowout in 2006. He should have retired then. He has no chance.
Besides, he is a Catholic and in South Carolina and the rest of the south (besides Louisiana), that will be a strike against him. Rick Perry may make a few waves in South Carolina but he is done as well.


Romney has been good about keeping his Mormon beliefs private. Although I don't like his beliefs, I don't like (or even know) what Obama's beliefs are either but I have a good idea what they might be.  
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RE: Romney And Santorum: Molecular Neck And Neck

Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:15 pm

Reading this thread re-enforces the view that Romney wins on the basis of being the least objectionable of all of the GOP candidates, which is faint praise indeed.

It's interesting how the GOP torched Kerry as a flip-flopper yet in Romney we have the King of the Somersault.
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