ALTF4
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Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:04 pm

Arrest warrants issued, 18 domain names seized, and the site shutdown for now.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...edia&utm_campaign=twitterclickthru

Interesting development - especially with SOPA being so high on the 'heated discussion' list at the moment across the world. Many people arrested in New Zealand and Australia, and two more in Germany and one in Slovakia have been indicted as well.

Government going too far? Or is this an organized crime ring as they suggest? Megaupload is responsible for 1.5% of all illegal content distribution, according to some sources. That's a significant chunk.
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crazyfoo88
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:09 pm

I use Megaupload to send large files for clients, and I am pretty pissed that this happened. This will be an interesting one for the courts.
crazyfoo88
 
rfields5421
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:06 pm

This has nothing to do with the debate over SOPA.

The ownership/ management of Megaupload knows full well that a significant portion of the content uploaded is illegal.

And they make money off those uploads.

That is criminal activity, even if they offer a valid service to some of their customers.

If you want to be upset - the names of the responsible people are in the linked article.

[Edited 2012-01-19 14:07:39]
 
srbmod
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:30 pm

Much like with a weed, there will be others popping up to replace this site. This is why SOPA and PIPA if passed and signed into law will fail. Whenever the Federal gov't has shutdown sites, they either reappear at a new domain name within hours or days (This happened last year with some sites that stream live TV on the internet.) or more sites pop up to fill the void.
 
Acheron
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
This has nothing to do with the debate over SOPA.

It actually does. If they were perfectly capable of doing all of this without SOPA and PIPA, why the hell do they even need them?.
 
srbmod
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:28 am

Now they've gone and done it:

Anonymous Reacts to Megaupload Takedown With “Largest Attack Ever”

Folks are spamming the FBI's page on Facebook as well:

http://www.facebook.com/FBI
 
Stabilator
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:46 am

Rumor has it Alicia Keys' spouse is among those arrested. Interesting stuff.

Anyone ever watch Anonymous videos on YouTube? They're quite entertaining!
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rfields5421
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 4):
It actually does. If they were perfectly capable of doing all of this without SOPA and PIPA, why the hell do they even need them?.

SOPA/PIPA are focused on something very different from this company/ group of linked sites.

These were the actual servers holding the illegal content, and a group of other sites trying to disguise who is actually hosting the material.

SOPA/PIPA are designed to try and find a way to control the ability to find illegal content quickly with normal search engines and other links.

Google and the other main search engines could easily write parameters into their data mining tools which would exclude sites like these which host illegal content. Google and their competitors don't want to do that even though they have the technology, presumably because it might cut their ad revenue.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 6):
Rumor has it Alicia Keys' spouse is among those arrested.

His name is not on the list of people arrested/ indicted, though his position with the company certainly will bring him under close inspection.
 
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:26 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):

Odd that he is involved in the demise of his wife's industry.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
sr117
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 9):

Odd that he is involved in the demise of his wife's industry.

The music industry is the only one responsible for its troubles. Before there was rapidshare there was borrowing the tape or CD from your friend.

I buy the exact same amount of music as I did 10-15 years ago, the only thing the internet has changed is that I can thankfully listen to a much wider variety of music than I ever thought possible, and make my purchases according to what I want to listen, not what is forcefully fed to me on the radio.

The music industry has to adapt to its new environment, they're not the first nor the last business that has to adapt to new realities. They brought down napster and what did that change?
 
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alberchico
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:56 am

Many books and videos that I downloaded were hosted on this site. Hope that other sites pop up to fill in this void.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:52 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 9):
the demise of his wife's industry.


Piracy is wrong, but it is not going away, and it will not destroy the music industry. If the industry makes $X million less, they aren't going to fire Kesha or the people that make her music (then they wouldn't make any money.) That $X million mostly comes from the RIAA's and MPAA's pockets. So I am a lot less sympathetic to the industry that puts ridiculous DRM on music, has different DVD region codes, forces people to watch stupid anti-piracy ads on obviously non-pirated DVDs, sues single moms for millions for 20 or so songs, and is trying to pass this awful SOPA / PIPA legislation.
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LAXintl
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:26 am

Excellent news!

People need to realize they simply do not have the rights to redistribute things which they do not hold legal ownership over.

One of America's most valuable assets is intellectual property, and it should be of paramount importance to go after the scrooge of people and companies that violate basic copyright laws and illegally host and redistribute materials which they simply do not have rights for.
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tu204
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:04 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Thread starter):
Many people arrested in New Zealand and Australia, and two more in Germany and one in Slovakia have been indicted as well.

Who arrested said individuals in said countries? And under what jurisdiction?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:34 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
People need to realize they simply do not have the rights to redistribute things which they do not hold legal ownership over.

When copying a piece of work is so easy that it can be done with just 2 key strokes, you need to start thinking just how much that piece of work is really worth.

DRM and constantly suing anyone who re-distributes the material just isn't working. It's time the music industry woke up and realised that the current business model is just not viable any more. A new model is required.
 
CXB77L
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
This has nothing to do with the debate over SOPA.

The ownership/ management of Megaupload knows full well that a significant portion of the content uploaded is illegal.

And they make money off those uploads.

That is criminal activity, even if they offer a valid service to some of their customers.

If you want to be upset - the names of the responsible people are in the linked article.

  

This is excellent news. I hope the people indicted over this gets the proverbial book thrown at them, if convicted.
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StarAC17
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 15):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
People need to realize they simply do not have the rights to redistribute things which they do not hold legal ownership over.

When copying a piece of work is so easy that it can be done with just 2 key strokes, you need to start thinking just how much that piece of work is really worth.

DRM and constantly suing anyone who re-distributes the material just isn't working. It's time the music industry woke up and realised that the current business model is just not viable any more. A new model is required.

While I understand it isn't right to pirate things. This is like the war on drugs and piracy should not be criminal it will just be a waste of money to enforce criminally because the hackers will be one step ahead always especially how fast things run on the Internet. I know this sucks for some but it is reality and we all need to adapt to it, consider it business evolution.

Also if the government pisses off enough Internet users there are enough hackers along with Anonymous out there that could get into countless government servers and do whatever they please in them. Now if you do that then you should go to jail but sending torrents around while not right shouldn't be something that should warrant jail.

This potentially can spark what some have said will be what 21st century terrorism will be.
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Pellegrine
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:26 am

Pretty sad that Australia and New Zealand are such puppets of the US. Do whatever the big bad US FBI tells them to.

I will say this and clear up a few things:

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 6):
Rumor has it Alicia Keys' spouse is among those arrested. Interesting stuff.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
His name is not on the list of people arrested/ indicted, though his position with the company certainly will bring him under close inspection.

Kasseem Dean aka Swizz Beatz has been in the music business far longer than Alicia Keys and is wealthier than her off of it (on the production side). So I don't think he would like to see it destroyed.

In a private company a "fake" CEO might not have as much operational control as you would think. If I am Chairman and have sway over the board I could put whatever CEO/figurehead I want. And many times companies operating illegally will put on a "front".

Swizz isn't cheap either. This is a producer who regularly commands $1 million to produce a hit song (before it's even a hit you have to pay the producer). So Megaupload probably just pitched him 6+ digits to be a "front man".

I really don't think Swizz is involved in this (the illegalities) for many reasons I can't even get into.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Excellent news!

People need to realize they simply do not have the rights to redistribute things which they do not hold legal ownership over.

One of America's most valuable assets is intellectual property, and it should be of paramount importance to go after the scrooge of people and companies that violate basic copyright laws and illegally host and redistribute materials which they simply do not have rights for.

This is an old mindset but it is never surprising to here it for me. I could waste breath. But it doesn't matter. The damage was done 10+ years ago whichever way you believe.

It is laughable that these old dinosaurs of lazy government go after these things and gloat over their win. There are an incalculable number of opportunists and programmers working on the next (popular) solution to distribute free content online.

Napster has been done, did that stop anybody? Kazaa? Umm... Did pirating slow down after the demise of any of these sites/apps??? Nope.


In fact the only reason they're going after this Megaupload was because they smelled cash (tens of millions) and found a paper trail.

What about the other illegal sites? If the authorities are so motivated by altruism in support of rights holders (which I am not against btw), where are the indictments against other sites and persons???

[Edited 2012-01-20 03:48:46]
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
MD-90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:34 am

I use rapidshare.de to host files for download, how is it and other sites like it any different than megaupload.com?
 
CXB77L
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 18):
If the authorities are so motivated by altruism in support of rights holders (which I am not against btw), where are the indictments against other sites and persons???

One word: Evidence.

I don't think the government targeted Megaupload because there is lots of money to be made, but rather that they have now found sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there has been a criminal breach of copyright.

Yes, there are thousands of other sites out there, and I would point and laugh the day they get shut down one by one. As far as I am concerned, piracy is the scourge of the internet community and should be eradicated. However, to prosecute these websites and their owners, the government needs to find evidence that there has been a criminal breach of copyright, as the burden of proof is on them.
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StarAC17
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:03 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
One of America's most valuable assets is intellectual property, and it should be of paramount importance to go after the scrooge of people and companies that violate basic copyright laws and illegally host and redistribute materials which they simply do not have rights for.

20th century intellectual property maybe but there are many in America that want don't want to move forward and the old white men on congress passing legislation that I could get around in very little time aren't helping things progress into the 21st century.

Example being with the Internet and even energy which is immensely important. There has been very little effort by the US (also many others, the blame goes to many) to not invest and research alternate energy even though we are likely to hit peak oil in 2014 IIRC. Even though they might not be viable now there is nothing lost in trying to figure it out before China does and right now I'm betting on them to get it. This may seem like an off topic rant but the point is the same, the government of the US (lobbied by lazy corperate interests) apparently is not being able to embrace the Internet as the main source of information and entertainment for basically everyone under 40. This just puts the United States which still has the potential to get shit done if they really want to fall behind where everyone else is going.

People in Africa might worry about not having enough to eat and worry about the cleanliness of their water but you better believe they have access to Google, Facebook, and twitter through their mobile phones. This is the way society is going whether people like it or not!!
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flood
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:05 pm

I wonder who's next as there are a number of similar, popular file hosting services operating such as Rapidshare and Filesonic. I thought maybe they'd be operating under one umbrella but the mentioned sites are still up.

It's unfortunate the shutdown affected a number of legitimate users, yet these sites are absolutely swamped with pirated content. As a stock photographer, I've come across several of my photos being freely distributed in various compiled image libraries there. That said, good riddance.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 15):
When copying a piece of work is so easy that it can be done with just 2 key strokes, you need to start thinking just how much that piece of work is really worth.

There's no logic in that argument.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 19):

I use rapidshare.de to host files for download, how is it and other sites like it any different than megaupload.com?

It's not. Should you have any files on there which aren't backed up, it may be a good time to do so.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:14 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):
One word: Evidence.

I don't think the government targeted Megaupload because there is lots of money to be made, but rather that they have now found sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there has been a criminal breach of copyright.

Yes, there are thousands of other sites out there, and I would point and laugh the day they get shut down one by one. As far as I am concerned, piracy is the scourge of the internet community and should be eradicated. However, to prosecute these websites and their owners, the government needs to find evidence that there has been a criminal breach of copyright, as the burden of proof is on them.

This is such a waste of time and government resources it is laughable.

Not because governments are not supposed to uphold the law. They are. But as you say yourself there is no way for them to uphold the law. The sites are too numerous and evidence to scant and slow coming.

So let RIAA/MPAA/major rights holders et. al. bring a lawsuit in a court first. Let them protect their rights. Just as I will protect mine. Let's not (collectively) waste time and resources on this nonsense.

IMO. The 21st century unlike the 20th will be less about what is right and wrong in the virtual community, and more about what is practical and relevant to the rule of law and governance of man and community given resource limits. You can quote me on that.
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ALTF4
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 14):
Who arrested said individuals in said countries? And under what jurisdiction?

The authorities within the countries where they were arrested. The U.S. has extradition agreements with many countries, and many countries will arrest upon request so the U.S. can extradite.
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Revelation
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Google and the other main search engines could easily write parameters into their data mining tools which would exclude sites like these which host illegal content. Google and their competitors don't want to do that even though they have the technology, presumably because it might cut their ad revenue.

Google et al are afraid that the specter of censorship will make its users decide to seek alternate uncensored search engines.

These sites all came out of nowhere and know they can go back to nowhere very quickly.

Users are afraid that once they end up on a government blacklist instantly because some corporation complains, it'll be next to impossible to get off that blacklist. Look how the no-travel blacklist ended up working out - a huge impediment to those accidentally put onto the list, no impediment to those willing to obtain illegal documents.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
This is excellent news. I hope the people indicted over this gets the proverbial book thrown at them, if convicted.

Proverbial indeed! Throwing the bits at them won't hurt!

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 21):
This may seem like an off topic rant but the point is the same, the government of the US (lobbied by lazy corperate interests) apparently is not being able to embrace the Internet as the main source of information and entertainment for basically everyone under 40. This just puts the United States which still has the potential to get shit done if they really want to fall behind where everyone else is going.

I'm not sure where you draw the line, but clearly the current Congress has shown they and their staffers can't grapple with complex technical issues, which is pretty scary.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 21):
People in Africa might worry about not having enough to eat and worry about the cleanliness of their water but you better believe they have access to Google, Facebook, and twitter through their mobile phones. This is the way society is going whether people like it or not!!

Ironic that all the sites you list are American, no?
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Starbuk7
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:18 pm

This is an interesting video that my daughter showed me yesterday of exactly who is funding the bill, and the corruption behind it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc
 
LAXintl
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:31 pm

I’m amazed by the laissez-faire attitude many regarding piracy and desire to see anything goes attitude over the internet.

Piracy unfortunately has become the worlds largest economic crime – costing individuals, companies and nations billions.

And no its not only the mega artist or mega corporation that looses out with piracy, it’s the many millions of support folks globally that rely for much of their earnings on things like royalty payments, or revenue from those mega airtist and companies. Everything from make up artist, to production grips to recoding technicians and on and on. Every dollar worth of intellectual property stolen, is a dollar less that can be earned directly for their hard work.


At the end of the day, while maybe a futile attempt to plug a dam, we are a nation of laws, and its paramount we do the best to enforce such basic laws.
Companies and end users must understand one simply does not have the right to freely redistribute property one does not hold rights over. Its rather simple concept. One does not go out find a bike on a bike rack, ride it a bit, and then give it to a 3rd party without ramifications.
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rfields5421
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting flood (Reply 22):
It's not.

Maybe, maybe not.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 19):
I use rapidshare.de to host files for download, how is it and other sites like it any different than megaupload.com?

megaupload.com itself wasn't the major problem. The problem was the interlocking set of websites the company created which required paid memberships - that indexed and advertised illegal content - especially movies which were not even released to theaters yet.

It could be very hard to find some of the most highly sought illegal content on megaupload because the system setup to force folks to pay for the content.

Legitimate upload sites work with authorities to find illegal copyright content that people have uploaded, and remove it from the site.

An example is the way youtube works.

I'm sure there are folks on here who remember when you could download full length concert videos of new songs before their release from youtube. There were even cases of whole movies being uploaded.

No longer - and it hasn't been the end of the electronic age.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
Piracy is wrong, but it is not going away, and it will not destroy the music industry.

Nor will shutting down pirate web sites destroy peoples freedom and rights to information.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
I’m amazed by the laissez-faire attitude many regarding piracy and desire to see anything goes attitude over the internet.

After seeing the RIAA sue single moms for millions over a few songs, I have little sympathy for the RIAA

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
And no its not only the mega artist or mega corporation that looses out with piracy, it’s the many millions of support folks globally that rely for much of their earnings on things like royalty payments, or revenue from those mega airtist and companies.

How much of a song goes to the little people/studio employees/etc? How little of it goes to the actual artists!? You'd be surprised how much of a song is sucked up by the RIAA and other huge studios. That's why you see many artists in favor of piracy.

But at the end of the day, LAXintl, most people aren't defending piracy. They're arguing against the threat SOPA poses to legitimate users and activities. In regards to megaupload, we can see in this thread many users use megaupload and other sites for legitimate uses and are punished in the unwinnable war against piracy. I don't buy that IP is our greatest asset in our country, and if it is, we really need to put our eggs in another basket, because people all over the world are going to be able to strip any protection off a file and distribute it all over the world for free

edit:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 28):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
Piracy is wrong, but it is not going away, and it will not destroy the music industry.

Nor will shutting down pirate web sites destroy peoples freedom and rights to information.

Well in megaupload's case it won't. I was talking mostly about SOPA and its movement

[Edited 2012-01-20 10:26:35]
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rfields5421
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:42 pm

As I said on the other thread - SOPA/PIPA are simply bad pieces of legislation - trying to micro-manage a technical issue from a law, not written with consideration of the technical possibilities and requirements.

Even if SOPA/PIPA were passed and implemented - change in technology would soon make it/them obsolete.

SOPA/PIPA could shut down Apple App store or the Andriod Marketplace if someone developed an app which gave folks quick easy access to links to download pirated content.

If the managers of those sites didn't catch it quickly, the laws would make Apple and the various phone companies liable for damages.

Yes - a far fetched example, but still an example of what is wrong with these attempts at laws.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
Piracy unfortunately has become the worlds largest economic crime – costing individuals, companies and nations billions.

I never read an independent study that said that. Most numbers come from the lobbies of the music and film industries.
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srbmod
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 19):
I use rapidshare.de to host files for download, how is it and other sites like it any different than megaupload.com?

Plenty of illegally copied content on any site like these, and likely targets for the next takedown.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
I’m amazed by the laissez-faire attitude many regarding piracy and desire to see anything goes attitude over the internet.

Piracy unfortunately has become the worlds largest economic crime – costing individuals, companies and nations billions.

And no its not only the mega artist or mega corporation that looses out with piracy, it’s the many millions of support folks globally that rely for much of their earnings on things like royalty payments, or revenue from those mega airtist and companies. Everything from make up artist, to production grips to recoding technicians and on and on. Every dollar worth of intellectual property stolen, is a dollar less that can be earned directly for their hard work.


At the end of the day, while maybe a futile attempt to plug a dam, we are a nation of laws, and its paramount we do the best to enforce such basic laws.
Companies and end users must understand one simply does not have the right to freely redistribute property one does not hold rights over. Its rather simple concept. One does not go out find a bike on a bike rack, ride it a bit, and then give it to a 3rd party without ramifications.

You can't stuff the genie back into the bottle. Had enforcement of online piracy been strict from the outset when the Internet became a major part of everyday life and not done after it had become a major issue, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I would probably be correct in saying that a large majority of the members of this site have at some point illegally downloaded copyrighted content onto a computer. Many do it and know it is wrong, but still do so. Others do it because they feel as though anything on the net should be available for free (like a library) and don't see anything wrong in illegally downloading copyrighted content.

This sort of stuff has been going on well before the Internet. Cracked/hacked software downloads have been going on since the days of Bulletin Board Systems in the days before the Internet became what we know it as today. I knew folks that even then rarely bought software and had cracked copies of it on a floppy disk. There were crackdowns in those days as well on folks doing this.
 
photopilot
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
This is excellent news. I hope the people indicted over this gets the proverbial book thrown at them, if convicted.

In today's age, don't you mean "getting a Kindle thrown at them". 

But seriously, 30 years ago when I was in school, we'd make a slide-show of our photographs and put it to music to show our friends or at school.
Now, we put those same images and music together and make a short avi digital file and send it to our friends. Yet today, the music industry is saying that I can't use the same music I did 30 years ago to accompany my photos.

Are we at the point now that I can't produce a "video" of my images to post on YouTube with a music soundtrack because I am going to be forced to pay a royalty to the music industry to do so.... even though I own the actual albun/CD? Or am I going to have to hire and pay "session musicians" because I want to make a nice slideshow of my vacation so my friends can see it, or post it on Youtube. Sorry.... but it's becoming insane to expect this to not happen.
 
Acheron
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
Piracy unfortunately has become the worlds largest economic crime – costing individuals, companies and nations billions.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
And no its not only the mega artist or mega corporation that looses out with piracy, it’s the many millions of support folks globally that rely for much of their earnings on things like royalty payments, or revenue from those mega airtist and companies.

Too bad most artist actually make most of their profits in concerts and tickets sales, not CD's.

Nine Inch Nails seems to be doing perfectly fine despite deciding to get rid of its record label and self-fund and self-release their albums. You know, in the dangerous world full of pirates everywhere and all,

Fortunately, it seems artist are more in touch with reality than record labels, Hollywood and some posters.

Serj Tankian from System of a Down.

Quote:
in today’s music industry, with file sharing and downloading, we have to offer something a lot more than just 12 songs on a record. We need to offer multiple ways of connecting with our fans, with the people that listen to our music.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
Ironic that all the sites you list are American, no?

They might be based in America and been thought up by Americans but for all respective purposes they are global websites and have global content.

The US is still number 1 when it comes to computer technology and such, how long will it stay that way though if these laws become reality.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
I'm not sure where you draw the line, but clearly the current Congress has shown they and their staffers can't grapple with complex technical issues, which is pretty scary.

That's because as said there are very few members of congress that are computer savy. Most congress members would have trouble setting up a gmail account or many other basic Internet functions because of this they can't govern for they way things will be going.
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LAXintl
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):
After seeing the RIAA sue single moms for millions over a few songs, I have little sympathy for the RIAA

And single mom's get arrested for shop lifting every day also. Just because you might be a single mom, or other perceived special person does not give one the right to commit a crime. Theft is theft.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):
I don't buy that IP is our greatest asset in our country, and if it is, we really need to put our eggs in another basket, because people all over the world are going to be able to strip any protection off a file and distribute it all over the world for free

We'll IP is very much becoming America's largest export and financial asset. We don't produce that much physically anymore but instead make money based on our creations and intangible assets - from medical to sciences to arts and the media.

Chip away copyright and patent protections for our IP creations we are not left with much as a nation.

Albert Einstein even said that “imagination is more important than actual knowledge” Thankfully the US leads the world in our imagination and ability to create things which are found to be valuable globally. The protection of such creations thus become paramount as they are national assets that benefit us all.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
You can't stuff the genie back into the bottle.

The genie might be out of the bottle on the host of subjects in our society, from drug use to drunk driving to teenage pregnancy, however that does not mean we should not do all possible to limit the damage caused as a result.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:52 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):
After seeing the RIAA sue single moms for millions over a few songs, I have little sympathy for the RIAA

And single mom's get arrested for shop lifting every day also. Just because you might be a single mom, or other perceived special person does not give one the right to commit a crime. Theft is theft.

You may think that crime is worth millions of dollars. I and other Americans don't. I also don't care if it's a single mom or a married dad, they should be punished, just not in the form of millions of dollars. That's bull

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
We'll IP is very much becoming America's largest export and financial asset. We don't produce that much physically anymore but instead make money based on our creations and intangible assets - from medical to sciences to arts and the media.

Well if this is the basket we're putting our eggs in we're in for a sad future. Piracy isn't going to stop as much as we try. We should put reasonable measures in place to stop it but we're not gonna be able to

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
You can't stuff the genie back into the bottle.

The genie might be out of the bottle on the host of subjects in our society, from drug use to drunk driving to teenage pregnancy, however that does not mean we should not do all possible to limit the damage caused as a result.

Yes, I agree, but the measures we take also must be reasonable. SOPA, according to the American people (not corporate interest) was not
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dc9northwest
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):
Yes, I agree, but the measures we take also must be reasonable. SOPA, according to the American people (not corporate interest) was not

But it's all about corporate interest here. The billion-dollar corporation want their money from the 30,000$ annual salary guy. IMO the artists aren't losing that much, in fact they might be gaining (especially small bands no one has ever heard of) fans who might go to concerts thus paying money. A concert ticket and the merchandise (which all bands seem to sell at concerts) can easily be more expensive than a CD, depending on the band... Since most bands tour, there's the money for them. Go to a concert every few years and it's the same thing overall. If you buy CDs, how about buying ones from bands that make them themselves. The smaller the band, the more it's worth it.

I find it hard to side with people making millions of dollars for nothing (like that Bieber fella or the Disney "artists") or corporations taking in billions.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:14 am

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 38):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):
Yes, I agree, but the measures we take also must be reasonable. SOPA, according to the American people (not corporate interest) was not

But it's all about corporate interest here. The billion-dollar corporation want their money from the 30,000$ annual salary guy. IMO the artists aren't losing that much, in fact they might be gaining (especially small bands no one has ever heard of) fans who might go to concerts thus paying money. A concert ticket and the merchandise (which all bands seem to sell at concerts) can easily be more expensive than a CD, depending on the band... Since most bands tour, there's the money for them. Go to a concert every few years and it's the same thing overall. If you buy CDs, how about buying ones from bands that make them themselves. The smaller the band, the more it's worth it.

I find it hard to side with people making millions of dollars for nothing (like that Bieber fella or the Disney "artists") or corporations taking in billions.

I know it's mainly corporate interests, but even they have reasonable needs. I think freedom and spreading of all information/knowledge is good, yet I also respect their right to copyright. So I support reasonable anti-piracy measures. And I agree that the corporations often rip off artists, but that is another topic all together and does not change how I feel about the corporations' rights. Don't forget, megaupload was basically a corporation in itself making millions off piracy. At least the RIAA are making their money legitimately. There is a balance between corporations (including even small copyright holders like Mariner) and the welfare of all users on the internet
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):

And single mom's get arrested for shop lifting every day also.

And you see, here's the problem. If the single mom shoplifts, the shop owner will really suffer a loss. Now, with the music/movie /game downloads it's a bit more complex. The copyright owner may or may not suffer a loss. The funny part is that he probably doesn't. You know, there are nations that are simply cautious. They don't believe everything they hear without a proof. And if there is no proof offered, they investigate themselves. One of these nations are the Swiss. According to this http://www.ejpd.admin.ch/content/ejp...umentation/mi/2011/2011-11-30.html (and the study behind it) the entertainment industry is very likely not losing money due to piracy. The family budgets on entertainment remain constant, so the money "saved" on piracy gets spent on entertainment anyway. People downloading music spend more money on concert tickets. Similarly, people downloading movies spend more money on movie theater tickets and game downloaders buy more games than anyone else.
So, I think the entertainment industry should stop whining and present some hard evidence of their losses. Mind you, the following formula is not a proof:
Our loss=number of downloads x price we would like to charge but nobody will pay it

Or they have another option, suggested by the Swiss: stop whining and adjust your business model to current situation.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 40):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):

And single mom's get arrested for shop lifting every day also.

And you see, here's the problem. If the single mom shoplifts, the shop owner will really suffer a loss. Now, with the music/movie /game downloads it's a bit more complex. The copyright owner may or may not suffer a loss.

My biggest gripe is shoplifting would probably be way less of a fine than pirating. I mean millions of dollars!? Luckily the judge knocked the amount done (I think) but the RIAA isn't winning anyone over when they sue for millions

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 40):
So, I think the entertainment industry should stop whining and present some hard evidence of their losses.

They shouldn't have to produce evidence of anything. Piracy is still a crime and they can choose to complain to Congress if they want. Corporations, even if they make millions, still have rights. But those rights should NOT trample ours
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):
They shouldn't have to produce evidence of anything. Piracy is still a crime and they can choose to complain to Congress if they want.

MD 90 just broke into my house, he stole my mouse trap, my nutcracker and my bible. I suffered a loss of $ 241553.25 due his despicable crime. I don't have to prove that my loss is real because breaking and entering is still a crime.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 42):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):
They shouldn't have to produce evidence of anything. Piracy is still a crime and they can choose to complain to Congress if they want.

MD 90 just broke into my house, he stole my mouse trap, my nutcracker and my bible. I suffered a loss of $ 241553.25 due his despicable crime. I don't have to prove that my loss is real because breaking and entering is still a crime.

Well you're arguing if piracy is "a loss." I am more on your side, I don't think corporations lose much since most pirates I talk to wouldn't buy it anyway. I'm not arguing losses here. It is still a violation of copyright law and is a crime, and even the evil RIAA has a right to complain about it.

Now if there is a popular movement with legitimate, ration arguments against copyright, they should talk to the legislatures and courts to modify the copyright acts. But piracy is a crime now, losses or not
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 43):
I'm not arguing losses here. It is still a violation of copyright law and is a crime, and even the evil RIAA has a right to complain about it.

Oh, I agree with that. However, the real question is: Is it worth the taxpayers money to do after a crime that probably doesn't really have a victim (meaning: no measureble loss = no victim)?

Basically , this is the stance of the Swiss government. They kept downloading and copying of copyrighted content for personal usage legal and refuse to go after the uploaders as well.
And BTW, downloading is legal in Canada too. Uploading, of course, isn't.

That said, I still don't understand how can be BD zones/ DVD regions legal...
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 44):

Well that is up to the decision of the courts and legislature. And a completely different topic. I foresee the US going the way of the Swiss and Canadians, but it will take a while.
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StarAC17
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:39 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):
You may think that crime is worth millions of dollars. I and other Americans don't. I also don't care if it's a single mom or a married dad, they should be punished, just not in the form of millions of dollars. That's bull

Shoplifter's certainly don't unless they are chronic thief's one offence will likely lead to a fine and thats it. Even several offences wouldn't lead to jail I reckon, but it depends what you steal.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 38):
I find it hard to side with people making millions of dollars for nothing (like that Bieber fella or the Disney "artists") or corporations taking in billions.

I might have disdain for someone like Justin Bieber because I don't think he has any talent as a singer and there are much better people out there but he has fans that want to see him and buy his music so he deserves his money.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 40):
And you see, here's the problem. If the single mom shoplifts, the shop owner will really suffer a loss. Now, with the music/movie /game downloads it's a bit more complex. The copyright owner may or may not suffer a loss.

Even if the shop owner suffers a loss the costs of preventing a shoplifter (aka adding a security guard or another staff member), or going after them is usually not worth it to a small shop owner. It is often more financially viable to let the occasional person steal that using resources to go after them.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 44):
Oh, I agree with that. However, the real question is: Is it worth the taxpayers money to do after a crime that probably doesn't really have a victim (meaning: no measureble loss = no victim)?

No.

Also its pitting one set of corperate interests (Internet companies) whom have big promise in the 21st century, also the US is still number 1 in that regard up against an industry which the US also dominates but is still using an outdated business model where Internet companies are state of the art.
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CXB77L
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
I’m amazed by the laissez-faire attitude many regarding piracy and desire to see anything goes attitude over the internet.

Piracy unfortunately has become the worlds largest economic crime – costing individuals, companies and nations billions.

And no its not only the mega artist or mega corporation that looses out with piracy, it’s the many millions of support folks globally that rely for much of their earnings on things like royalty payments, or revenue from those mega airtist and companies. Everything from make up artist, to production grips to recoding technicians and on and on. Every dollar worth of intellectual property stolen, is a dollar less that can be earned directly for their hard work.

At the end of the day, while maybe a futile attempt to plug a dam, we are a nation of laws, and its paramount we do the best to enforce such basic laws.
Companies and end users must understand one simply does not have the right to freely redistribute property one does not hold rights over. Its rather simple concept. One does not go out find a bike on a bike rack, ride it a bit, and then give it to a 3rd party without ramifications.

  

I agree that an attempt to stop piracy is, as you put it, 'a futile attempt to plug a dam', but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, nor does it mean we should let pirates roam free and do nothing about it on the pretense of futility.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 29):
After seeing the RIAA sue single moms for millions over a few songs, I have little sympathy for the RIAA

I have little sympathy for pirates, regardless of their situation. I don't care if they are single mums and homeless, or that the corporation is worth billions of dollars. They should be held to account for their infringements.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 32):
Many do it and know it is wrong, but still do so. Others do it because they feel as though anything on the net should be available for free (like a library) and don't see anything wrong in illegally downloading copyrighted content.

I have nothing but contempt for the actions of those that do it, know it is wrong but have some misguided belief that they should have a moral right to copyrighted content without paying for it.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 33):
Are we at the point now that I can't produce a "video" of my images to post on YouTube with a music soundtrack because I am going to be forced to pay a royalty to the music industry to do so.... even though I own the actual albun/CD? Or am I going to have to hire and pay "session musicians" because I want to make a nice slideshow of my vacation so my friends can see it, or post it on Youtube. Sorry.... but it's becoming insane to expect this to not happen.

Technically, that would be an infringement of copyright. Solution? Don't have a music soundtrack on your video. Simple.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):
You may think that crime is worth millions of dollars. I and other Americans don't. I also don't care if it's a single mom or a married dad, they should be punished, just not in the form of millions of dollars. That's bull

On the contrary, I believe that a financial penalty acts as a deterrent. The difficulty, at the moment, is that people believe they won't be caught. But if they are, nothing less than a substantial financial penalty should be imposed. Copyright infrigement is a serious offence and should be treated as such.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 38):
But it's all about corporate interest here. The billion-dollar corporation want their money from the 30,000$ annual salary guy. IMO the artists aren't losing that much

Sorry, but that's irrelevant. Whether the corporation is a multi-billion dollar corporation, or whether the pirate is rich or poor, and whether the copyright holder is losing only a small percentage of their annual income, is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether the pirate should be punished for their infringements if caught. Everybody is responsible for their own actions. If they can't afford the penalty for copyright infrigements, it is best that they don't infringe upon someone else's copyright in the first place.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 38):
I find it hard to side with people making millions of dollars for nothing (like that Bieber fella or the Disney "artists") or corporations taking in billions.

Likewise, I find it difficult to side with people who believe that there is nothing wrong in pirating someone else's work without permission.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 40):
The family budgets on entertainment remain constant, so the money "saved" on piracy gets spent on entertainment anyway. People downloading music spend more money on concert tickets. Similarly, people downloading movies spend more money on movie theater tickets and game downloaders buy more games than anyone else.

That presupposes that the people that download music will spend money buying concert tickets from the artist they ripped off. If they downloaded it, decide they don't like that artist and spend money on someone else's concert, they have, in effect, 'ripped off' the artist to the value of their album.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 47):
I might have disdain for someone like Justin Bieber because I don't think he has any talent as a singer and there are much better people out there but he has fans that want to see him and buy his music so he deserves his money.

      

Regardless of what one might think about the artist's talents, they are, nonetheless, entitled to the profits from their work.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:33 am

Quoting tu204 (Reply 14):
Who arrested said individuals in said countries? And under what jurisdiction?

In NZ the accussed were arrested by the NZ Police. Kim Dotcom was doing well, at least well enough to be able to lease on of the largest private homes in NZ.

 
melpax
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RE: Megaupload.com Shutdown, Operators Indicted

Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 49):

Apparently he was unable to buy property in NZ as he failed a 'character test'..

http://www.theage.com.au/technology/...der-kim-dotcom-20120123-1qcxw.html
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