stlgph
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:08 am

Just received the text alert.

[Edited 2012-01-21 18:32:20]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:11 am

Wow....RIP...if it hasn't happened yet, it's not reported as such on ESPN, it's coming shortly. He's in bad shape and has asked to see his family according to spox.

He got the short end of the deAl at the end with penn state. He wa a great coach and was loved by his players.

[Edited 2012-01-21 18:14:22]
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
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EA CO AS
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Just received the text alert.

From....?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Starbuk7
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:13 am

I just read that. He has been the face of Penn State Football for as long as I can remember. I hope they keep his legacy a good one and not the scandal.

RIP Joe Pa!!
 
stlgph
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):

the news organization i work for.




if you google search, it's now hitting all the websites.

EDIT-

looks like the Guardian link i tried was a fail, so ...

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=...=90c1eb6c7005c121&biw=1024&bih=622

[Edited 2012-01-21 18:20:11]
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting dl021 (Reply 1):

Typing on an iPhone, so quoting function not working well, but:

He didn't get the short end of the stick at all. He deserved to lose his job over what happened.

That said, it is a shame that things had to end that way, and I have no real dislike for the man. I hope that the successes of his career will get their recognition along with the recent black marks. RIP.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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EA CO AS
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:28 am

CBS Sports jumped the gun. From @JayPaterno: "I appreciate the support & prayers. Joe is continuing to fight."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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stasisLAX
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:29 am

Strange. Nothing yet in the Philadelphia newspaper websites. Just a report that JoePa is seriously ill.

source: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/..._Paterno_in_serious_condition.html
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
ltbewr
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:29 am

Per a check at Huffingtonpost.com, the reports of his death are premature. The family reps have refuted the reports of CBS Sports, that he is not dead (yet) and ask for privacy. He is dealing with apparent complications from his lung cancer and earlier today was reported to in 'grave' or 'serious' condition. At his age, with his ongoing health problems and all the emotional tumult he has faced in the last 2 months or so, it is not improbable that he is very close to the end of his life.
 
stlgph
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:30 am

Now it gets better, family says he's still alive. Makes me laugh as several of my friends who work in the news business are at the airport literally trying to decide whether or not to get on a plane and head to State College.

This should be good.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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stasisLAX
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:32 am

KTLA (a local TV station in Pennsylvania) is reporting that initial reports that former Penn State football coach Joe Paterno had reportedly passed away Saturday night are now being retracted - after a Paterno family spokesman shot down the rumors.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):


the news organization i work for.

Better start putting the word "news" in quotation marks going forward...  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
stlgph
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):

Mine hasn't run with it yet  
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dragon-wings
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:23 am

I wonder if him getting fired and everything else that happened accelerated his cancer and put him in the position he is in now.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
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crj900lr
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:26 am

Oh im not saying he didnt know how to coach, he had some decent teams, its the things he did behind the scenes that are questionable, if he would have come clean and told the right people then fine, but he didn't and thats what gets me. Why hide something like that?
 
Mir
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting CRJ900LR (Reply 17):
its the things he did behind the scenes that are questionable, if he would have come clean and told the right people then fine, but he didn't and thats what gets me. Why hide something like that?

I don't know, and that's certainly a dark chapter in the story of his tenure at the school. But he was there for a long time, and I would hope that he'll be remembered more for the good things he did than for the bad. And there were a lot of good things - he screwed up with the Sandusky case, no doubt, but people do make mistakes, and those shouldn't wipe away the rest of their body of work.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
dragon-wings
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:26 am

Quoting CRJ900LR (Reply 17):
its the things he did behind the scenes that are questionable, if he would have come clean and told the right people then fine, but he didn't and thats what gets me. Why hide something like that?

Maybe this will answer some questions. Here is a interview Joe Paterno gave to the Washington Post earlier this month about the scandal.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1652...aks-publically-on-sandusky-scandal

[Edited 2012-01-21 22:28:34]
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Stabilator
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:01 am

Not sure how I feel about this news. On one hand he was one of the greatest coaches in college football history, and contributed immensely to the sport. On the other hand, he tarnished the pride of an entire University, it's allumni, students and staff. It doesn't matter that Sandusky did it. JoePa was the identity of not only the football team, but PSU itself.

How can someone know his assistant molests young children, and yet brush it under the rug and continue as normal. Mentioning it to campus security is not enough if they do not take action. To me, that shows great arrogance on his part.

My heart goes out to the victims and they Penn State community.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
dragon-wings
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:20 am

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 23):
Mentioning it to campus security

Actually he went and told the athletic director. I think he didn't follow up because he said he didn't know exactly how to handle it and was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Stabilator
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:31 am

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 24):

Interesting the University procedure would be anything other the going to the authorities. Can you expand on what the PSU procedures were?
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
ltbewr
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:39 pm

Yes, it will be sad to see his death, but no one lives forever. Very possibly Paterno would not have lived or been able to participate in recruiting for new players for next year. I do think a series of circumstances occurred, much like sometimes with air crashes, that led to this terrible situation for all including the abrupt dismissal of Joe Paterno.

The nature of sexual assault of children is one where the victim is put into circumstances that can be exploited by the attacker. Often, as with Sandusky for example, they are authority or respected persons who can and will intimidate their victims from reporting them or find those who are ignorant of what is happening is wrong. Then when a person is a victim they have such shame that they cannot tell a parent or authorities, perhaps never or only do so years later and in turn. Apparently at Penn State (and elsewhere where Sandusky did his terrible acts) there was no or inadequate rules or enforcement of them as to how adults and minors are to be protected from sexual assault. Many schools, churches, youth groups have strict polices where adults cannot be alone with children, another adult must be in the same room or close by to reduce the risks of sexual assault. Children and their parents must also be educated as to actions of potential sexual assaults.

Another part of this issue is how institutions - whether they they be colleges, schools, religious, youth groups or businesses will hide any scandal or illegal acts and not do the right actions. They will not report them to police or prosecution authorities or the police or prosecution, perhaps due to politics or fear of offending powerful persons or the difficult of prosecuting such alleged crimes, do not do their job. Indeed Paterno had the power could have told Sandusky - who was a guest, and not an employee in 2003 - that he was banned from all campus facilities until and unless a proper investigation occurred. All parties, the laws must do their job and protect victims first and not worry about how it wil play in the media, affect the fund raising from alumni. Now Penn State is facing a major cut in such fund raising due to their terrible choices in doing their jobs.

Paterno himself was too old and had become too powerful in his position until he embarassed the school and the board had to ditch him to save their sorry butts. I suspect too they had long wanted to ditch him and now had the 'gotcha' where they could. He was of an age that he did not or could not understand the idea of sexual abuse of children. He was on a god-like pedestal where he could do no wrong although he could have followed up more as to the allegations and the lack of actions by the schools' police and the board. He also covered up for players who had committed crimes for years, keeping them on the team with some very obvious exceptions. All schools should put major responsibility on all coaches and AD's as to if something wrong happens and in fear of losing their jobs if they fail. They should also be paid a lot less and not put onto an untouchable pedestal. There should also be a cap on how long by age, perhaps at age 75, for one to be in such a job.

Despite the much good Joe Pateno did for the school, including returning much of his income to facilities, attracting money from alumni, putting out good football and affecting positively 1000's of men (and women). Now his legacy will be more about how he handled a sexual assault.
 
Braniff747SP
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:25 pm

It's official and confirmed- CNN reports that he died today; the family confirms.
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dl021
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:16 pm

It's reported now...official.

He was destroyed by this scandal, and I disagree with Mir...I believe the guy turned it over to the university to handle. Was he trying to damage any children? No..the damage to them was done. The person responsible was removed from that position and the leadership at the university who dropped the ball let him down as well. Could he have done more? Sure..he could have screamed to the high heavens but that's bot where he was from. He wanted to keep the damage down to all concerned. Did he do nothing? No. He followed their procedure and reported what he was told. He didn't see it, the person who did didn't call the police....and then later decided to blame others. Was he hung out to dry by the trustees? Yes. Was it a tragedy that mars one of the greatest coaches in college history? Yes.

Either way....thousands of young men benefitted from his leadership, coaching and mentoring. I hope he does rest in peace.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Mir
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting dl021 (Reply 22):
Could he have done more? Sure..he could have screamed to the high heavens but that's bot where he was from.

May not have been where he was from, but it's what he should have done. He had an incredible bully pulpit as a result of his status, probably had a direct line to the governor's office, etc. If he had raised hell about it, you can bet that something would have been done.

I don't think he's a fundamentally bad person, but he did let the victims down, and more importantly let the fundamental principles of justice in this country (when you commit a crime, you get punished for it) down, and he (properly) lost his job for it. That's, as far as I'm concerned, the end of it - he's not a child molester, he's a decent man who happened to make a very bad decision. And while that decision will be remembered, his other accomplishments should be remembered as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
BN747
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
He didn't get the short end of the stick at all. He deserved to lose his job over what happened.

yep

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):

Paterno himself was too old and had become too powerful in his position until he embarassed the school and the board had to ditch him to save their sorry butts. I suspect too they had long wanted to ditch him and now had the 'gotcha' where they could. He was of an age that he did not or could not understand the idea of sexual abuse of children.

That last line... nailed it!

He came from a time where that kind abuse was dealt with by a random "Don't do it again.." from the cops to abusive parents being ordered to counseling .. and that's it. Very little prosecution back then -

..but more importantly, Joe was gonna be asked how well he knew his friend Sandusky? And to provide an honest and detailed answer to that -- well, let's say .. look at your own best friend (if you have one).. I guarantee you know things about his wife doesn't. I'll leave it at that.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):
He was on a god-like pedestal where he could do no wrong although he could have followed up more as to the allegations and the lack of actions by the schools' police and the board.

Exactly, he could have put this thing to bed in a flash...if he viewed it as most do today.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):
He also covered up for players who had committed crimes for years, keeping them on the team with some very obvious exceptions

Absolutely, and that's the choice of 'how much muscle do I put into this?' .. proving he DID NOT always 'follow procedure' .. he (as do many coaches) bend, break the rules for favorites or certain situations, it's no secret at all. This abuse thing was something that 'because of how Joe had grown up and been exposed to it... it simply didn't rise to the rivaled urgency of an endangered preferred player'. ..PLUS his friend was at the center of it - and Joe took an 'I don't wanna know about it attitude. Then it came home to roost.

Sorry Joe, but you could have handled this much much better.

BN747

[Edited 2012-01-22 10:39:21]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Cadet985
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:59 pm

Let me ask all of you posting negatively about Joe Paterno something. What did he do to deserve to be fired? Nothing that Sandusky did happened while he was on Paterno's staff - he left in 1999. He still worked at the university, just not with Paterno. Now...once Paterno found out what was going on, he did what he was required to do under Pennsylvania laws. He informed the athletic director, and I believe the campus police. Could he have done more? Yes. Was he bound by law to do more? No. Some say that Paterno was so shocked at the information that he didn't know how to react.

Why is Paterno being made the scapegoat (even in death)?

Why must people remember him for this scandal (that he wasn't even part of), instead of all the contributions he made to football, the university, and his community?

Rest in Peace, Joe Pa.

Marc
 
Mir
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 25):
Could he have done more? Yes. Was he bound by law to do more? No.

A lot of people get fired for things they do that are not illegal, but still not appropriate.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Stabilator
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 25):
Now...once Paterno found out what was going on, he did what he was required to do under Pennsylvania laws. He informed the athletic director, and I believe the campus police. Could he have done more? Yes. Was he bound by law to do more? No.

Just because he sought it out to the extent of the law doesn't mean he couldn't have done more. His morals should have made him ensure Sandusky was removed.

Just saying "Welp, I told the university about his crimes, their business now" doesn't cut it when children are being abused. No doubt he knew that one day someone would find out and this would explode in his face. I'm sure he could have gotten the county or state police involved, or even the Feds.

I'm not trying to sling mud at the man. As you said, his contributions to college football are many. However, to say he had no part in this, in my opinion, is a stretch.
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
 
D L X
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Joe Paterno Died

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 27):
Just saying "Welp, I told the university about his crimes, their business now" doesn't cut it when children are being abused.

I guarantee you there is nothing that Paterno could have reasonably done in 2002 that the people on this thread would agree was "enough" in 2012.

You guys need to understand that people had been trying to throw Sandusky in jail since 1999 -- well before Paterno was even remotely involved. Yet you think that Paterno's going to the school administration instead of the DA (who is now dead) would have made THE difference?

These arguments are wholly illogical, and simply rooted in emotion -- child rape is about the worst crime out there, and therefore, someone big must go down.

Well congratulations -- this misappropriation of blame from Sandusky to Paterno literally has killed Paterno.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 24):
Joe was gonna be asked how well he knew his friend Sandusky?

As we discussed at length months ago, you have no source other than the speculation on an obscure blog that Paterno and Sandusky were friends. I told you then that I believed you were wrong. Since then, it has been reported that in fact, "they were not close."

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1652...aks-publically-on-sandusky-scandal

[Edited 2012-01-22 10:57:29]
 
BN747
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Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 24):
Joe was gonna be asked how well he knew his friend Sandusky?

As we discussed at length months ago, you have no source other than the speculation on an obscure blog that Paterno and Sandusky were friends. I told you then that I believed you were wrong. Since then, it has been reported that in fact, "they were not close."

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/1652...aks-publically-on-sandusky-scandal

From your article...

Sandusky retired in 1999 and had not worked with Paterno, who said the two were not close, in three years. He said their relationship was "professional, not social," during the three decades they worked together and at the time did not remember the last time he had spoken with him.

First off, you're a lawyer.. and you don't think for 1 second anything in that article was crafted for media/public release.

Secondly, I don't know of anyone - particularly a coach and his Offensive or Defensive Coordinator - side by side for 30 years..but they aren't close. Yet Sandusky was his hand appointed 'heir apparent'. For you to sit there and say you are buying everything printed in that article tells me you are among the naive lawyers on the planet. Just what did you expect Joe Paterno to admit to in an interview..go ahead tell me.

Wrong doing? Some faults? In a case like this? You cannot be serious. But as I said when we discussed this weeks ago... you clearly know absolutely nothing about football culture - and by believing what you just quoted - again - proves it. Your Offensive or Defensive Coordinator is your trusted confidant, it is a competitive cutthroat businessand those two positions can only be filled by someone you trust and trust blindly.... and you do get to know very very well. The University doesn't appoint those people..you do.

Reading that article left me with one impression - distance, distance and more distance..
..just as I expected.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
seb146
Posts: 13769
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Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 25):
What did he do to deserve to be fired?

He had first hand knowledge of a crime but didn't report it to the police. Only stopping at the next person in his chain of command.

Quoting D L X (Reply 28):
I guarantee you there is nothing that Paterno could have reasonably done in 2002 that the people on this thread would agree was "enough" in 2012.

Wrong. The first second he knew a crime had been committed (child rape) he would have called 911 and turned in the person who did it, things would be so much different. He would have been held in much higher regard. There is a special place in hell for Sandusky, no doubt. But, Paterno could have had his legacy held up high if he had done the right thing.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
BMI727
Posts: 11091
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 30):
Wrong. The first second he knew a crime had been committed (child rape) he would have called 911 and turned in the person who did it, things would be so much different.

...instead he sat around wondering if it was possible to rape a man.

Anyway, Dan Bernstein hit the nail on the head about Paterno:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/...stein-cry-for-victims-not-paterno/
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 30):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 25):
What did he do to deserve to be fired?

He had first hand knowledge of a crime but didn't report it to the police. Only stopping at the next person in his chain of command.

Exactly, and thrtr's no doubt in my mind that over all those years Joe 'intervened' with cops to save a few players who went off the rails.

..he could have here too. And he didn't. And in his last interview he dodged all responsibility.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):

...instead he sat around wondering if it was possible to rape a man.

Sadly, he came from that darkened age.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:47 pm

One other issue is how do you mourn this man after his recent death considering his controversial part as to this serious scandal. This article discusses some of them: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...death_of_the_legendary_coach_.html

There is a life sized statue and park to him, bigger than one for war vets that is now visited by fans as a shrine, leaving flowers in memorial to him. His name is on the Library, do you remove it as others of shame have had happen to them?. Do you have a huge memorial ceremony for students and alumni at the stadium? Do you do nothing? Should there be a private funeral only attended by his extended blood family or open it to the community, perhaps having him 'lying in state' at the school's arena? Indeed, it is a challenge as to how to acknowledge Joe Paterno passing considering his tainted legacy.
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
First off, you're a lawyer.. and you don't think for 1 second anything in that article was crafted for media/public release.

Translation: "I've made up my mind, and I will not accept anything that Joe Paterno said as true."

If that translation is accurate, then we do not have much to discuss.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
Secondly, I don't know of anyone - particularly a coach and his Offensive or Defensive Coordinator - side by side for 30 years..but they aren't close.

That is what the Washington Post said. Your only counter evidence is an obscure blog. You choose to believe your blog over the Washington Post because you choose not to believe anything Paterno says. You in your mind have decided, and will not be swayed by other facts. Please tell me that I am wrong.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 30):
He had first hand knowledge of a crime but didn't report it to the police.

That is not quite true. He reported it to the VP in charge of the police.

I hate to relitigate this entire argument yet again (especially in the face of all the grave dancing we've seen in the last 2 days), but you absolutely have to separate the truth from the made up facts. The ENTIRETY of testimony on this case can be found here:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...andusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 34):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
First off, you're a lawyer.. and you don't think for 1 second anything in that article was crafted for media/public release.

Translation: "I've made up my mind, and I will not accept anything that Joe Paterno said as true."

If that translation is accurate, then we do not have much to discuss.

Better translation, you're extremely gullible to real life situations masked by public relations interference,

Quoting D L X (Reply 34):
That is what the Washington Post said. Your only counter evidence is an obscure blog. You choose to believe your blog over the Washington Post because you choose not to believe anything Paterno says. You in your mind have decided, and will not be swayed by other facts. Please tell me that I am wrong.

That's your best case forward? You're must be joking!

You'd readily buy into a 'press kit packaged response' over sportsworld bloggers?

Who do you think spends ALL their time in the sports world - dedicated sports observers? Or or some WaPo sensationalist - er reporter?

I see the same thing in Entertainment circles, the MSM's coverage of a story and coverage by Hollywood blogger. One provides far greater insight that the generalized one-size-fits-all coverage.

Same goes for the Legal world, a case can be covered by the MSM and by a dedicated legal blogger, if I want better insight beyond the 'elementary cut'..I'm go for the blogger.

One thing I did when working for a Film Studio was work directly with the head of Publicity and head of Marketing - responsible for EPKs , electronic press kits, press junkets and prepping talents for media pieces. You develop a new perspective of how 'news' comes together or 'what people see or are told. And you want me to forgo all that exposure and go back to the days of when I was super naive and see it they way you do along with eating up anything they put infront of you? Not a chance in hell.

I know a polished prepped 'client' when I see one. You call go ahead and can it recalcitrance, but just as I see your weakness in understanding what goes on beneath the surface of the sports world , I see it here as well, your lack of picking up on a cultivated and contrived response designed to influence a certain outcome. Stay green my friend.

BN747

[Edited 2012-01-23 11:18:01]
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
seb146
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 34):
That is not quite true. He reported it to the VP in charge of the police.

I tried to read the testimony. Dusgusting. What I read on pages 7, 8, and 9 tell me that Paterno knew about two instances and told one person. That one person (Curly) did nothing. I believe it is page 9 that says any instances of child abuse such as this will be reported to CPS within 48 hours per Pennsylvania law. That didn't happen, according to testimony of victim 7, IIRC. Paterno knew about two incidents and said nothing beyond one person. Why celebrate his life to the degree they are celebrating it? He won a bunch of football games. He also let some children down by allowing them to be raped. Let's not forget that, either.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
D L X
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):
You'd readily buy into a 'press kit packaged response' over sportsworld bloggers?

YES.

Sports writers do almost zero investigation, especially outside the world of sports. Sports writers broadcast rumor and innuendo as if it were verified.

You just called me gullible, but I would suggest you reconsider your depiction if you are relying on sports writers to get to the bottom of a story, especially one outside of sports.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):
You call go ahead and can it recalcitrance, but just as I see your weakness in understanding what goes on beneath the surface of the sports world , I see it here as well, your lack of picking up on a cultivated and contrived response designed to influence a certain outcome.

I'm not sure what any of this means. But I would suggest leaving the ad hominems out of it. Intelligent discussion is already severely lacking in this story.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 36):
What I read on pages 7, 8, and 9 tell me that Paterno knew about two instances and told one person.

Read it again. That is not at all what the report says.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 36):
He also let some children down by allowing them to be raped.

Again, there is NO testimony to that effect. None.

Yes, the testimony is disgusting and hard to read. However, that does not give one license to not read it and then fill in the gaps with conjecture.


Back to BN747, this is the problem with the sports writers that you revere. They spread information based on the rumors that they had heard, and reported them as facts. Then other people reported those facts as facts. Then other people reported those facts as facts. All-in-all, the world has convicted this man based on a game of telephone. The facts are in the grand jury presentment that I posted. They are not on some blog.
 
BN747
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 37):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):
You'd readily buy into a 'press kit packaged response' over sportsworld bloggers?

YES.

Sports writers do almost zero investigation, especially outside the world of sports. Sports writers broadcast rumor and innuendo as if it were verified.

You just called me gullible, but I would suggest you reconsider your depiction if you are relying on sports writers to get to the bottom of a story, especially one outside of sports.

It's a whole other culture and you'll never ever.. get it.

Quoting D L X (Reply 37):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):
You call go ahead and can it recalcitrance, but just as I see your weakness in understanding what goes on beneath the surface of the sports world , I see it here as well, your lack of picking up on a cultivated and contrived response designed to influence a certain outcome.

I'm not sure what any of this means.

You totally get it.

Joe's answers for that link you provided were 'prepped for that interview'..simple enough?

Whether you wanna agree or not, that's a different matter. But that's just the way things are done with celebrities. As a lawyer, you should know that 'no lawyer worth his salt' would permit a client to ramble off whatever his wishes...and Joe was lawyered up on what? The 2nd day? Plenty of time to prep a script.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
D L X
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
You totally get it.

No sir, I do not understand what you are saying. I'm trying to, but you're not very clear.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind, and any statement by Paterno that does not conclude the way you have concluded is simply a lie. You're entitled to your beliefs. And I'm entitled to forcefully state that your belief is misinformed because it is based on poor reporting, which you have admitted, is from a sports blog.
 
BN747
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 39):

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
You totally get it.

No sir, I do not understand what you are saying. I'm trying to, but you're not very clear.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind, and any statement by Paterno that does not conclude the way you have concluded is simply a lie.

And you appear to believe that anything the media says or what he says was the absolute truth.

Quoting D L X (Reply 39):
And I'm entitled to forcefully state that your belief is misinformed because it is based on poor reporting, which you have admitted, is from a sports blog.

As I am entitled to forcefully state your egregiously erroneous in drawing such a conclusion because I'm not going solely on the reporting of a sportsblog.

They only the sportsblog has done is report that the two are close friends. You disagree because the WaPo hasn't said so and Joe's last words denied it.

I base my beliefs on them being closer than Joe wanted to admit on my 1st hand knowledge and understanding of the general relationships between coaches and their lieutenants - in this case a lifelong coordinator.


I'm a bit more ahead of the curve on you on this because I know that MSM has had it's lunch taken away from it by new web media - it's a whole new world. Print media is dead..get over it. More people are getting more in-depth reporting, complete story details from insiders than they are from distant traditional media sources. Belittle it til your heart's content, but the world is moving in a different direction as to how information is distributed and from whom.

And again, you do get it.. you can't name a lawyer on this planet who let a client under a cloud of this nature just say 'whatever he feels'... well, you might. But no lawyer I know would permit it. Joe's last words on the matter were sculptured and crafted, just because you want to buy it as wholesale truth...doesn't mean I have to. I already know how people react when caught up in bad situation like this - the majority of the time 'they lie'. Joe was lying his ass off, trying to escape culpability (for the harm to those kids) to the very end.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
seb146
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 37):
Again, there is NO testimony to that effect. None.

Page 7. The incident with Victim 2 was seen on Friday, Paterno was notified on Saturday and Paterno told Curly on Sunday. Curly, in turn waited A WEEK AND A HALF to meet with Schultz. In the end, nothing was done about it. NOTHING! Boys were still raped and Paterno knew and did nothing. Had Paterno did the right thing and gone straight to the police, this would have stopped with Victim 2.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
steeler83
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting dl021 (Reply 22):
It's reported now...official.

He was destroyed by this scandal, and I disagree with Mir...I believe the guy turned it over to the university to handle. Was he trying to damage any children? No..the damage to them was done. The person responsible was removed from that position and the leadership at the university who dropped the ball let him down as well. Could he have done more? Sure..he could have screamed to the high heavens but that's bot where he was from. He wanted to keep the damage down to all concerned. Did he do nothing? No. He followed their procedure and reported what he was told. He didn't see it, the person who did didn't call the police....and then later decided to blame others. Was he hung out to dry by the trustees? Yes. Was it a tragedy that mars one of the greatest coaches in college history? Yes.

Either way....thousands of young men benefitted from his leadership, coaching and mentoring. I hope he does rest in peace.

After reading your post, I think I'd have to agree with that. He even said he wished he'd done more with this scandle than what was done.

In any case, JoPA was, and forever will be, legendary. Rest in peace.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:54 am

Gotta love a D L X vs. BN747 discussion - it's the epitome of "irresistible force meets immovable object."

(And gentlemen, I mean that as a compliment)  
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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BN747
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):
Gotta love a D L X vs. BN747 discussion - it's the epitome of "irresistible force meets immovable object."

(And gentlemen, I mean that as a compliment)

Nicest thing you've ever said to me (I think)... soooo a 'thanks' is in order I guess.

And I can guess my role in this cage match.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
D L X
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Page 7. The incident with Victim 2 was seen on Friday, Paterno was notified on Saturday and Paterno told Curly on Sunday.

You are not reading the report correctly.

"Victim 2" is the John Doe name given to one of the victims. Victims 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 are not even mentioned on the same page as Paterno. You are mistaken.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Had Paterno did the right thing and gone straight to the police, this would have stopped with Victim 2.

You are again mistaken. The Victims are not described in chronological order.

Victim 1 - 2007-2008
Victim 2 - 2002 *
Victim 3 - 2000
Victim 4 - 1996-99
Victim 5 - 1995-96
Victim 6 - 1998
Victim 7 - 1994
Victim 8 - 2000

So, Victims 3-8 occurred long before Paterno was aware, and Victim 1 happened long after Sandusky had been banned from campus.

You have to have your facts straight.
 
BN747
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:08 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 45):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
Had Paterno did the right thing and gone straight to the police, this would have stopped with Victim 2.

You are again mistaken. The Victims are not described in chronological order.

Victim 1 - 2007-2008
Victim 2 - 2002 *
Victim 3 - 2000
Victim 4 - 1996-99
Victim 5 - 1995-96
Victim 6 - 1998
Victim 7 - 1994
Victim 8 - 2000

Oh please, I'm sure he had everything from anonymous phone calls, notes all kinds of hints, golf course chatter and other odd clues. It's just something he didn't see as 'critically important'.

In his defense, he came from a time where - well this kind of thing was a daily occurrence. Beating your wife? everyone does it, what's the big deal? Abusing your kids? so what. Sadly, that was America Joe Paterno grew up in.. he simply did not evolve with age in the sensibilities department.

Everyone's heard that grouchy old man who constant grumbles "people these days are such wusses" .. THAT guy? Comes from a such a period, no sensibilities whatsoever. When you hear younger people spew that..just chalk it up to simple case of being 'dangerously clueless'.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
seb146
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 45):
"Victim 2" is the John Doe name given to one of the victims. Victims 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 are not even mentioned on the same page as Paterno. You are mistaken.

Right. So, there was just one *ONE* victim Paterno was told about in this affidavit. And, no, I did not see any dates for any of the victims. I was looking for the name "Paterno." What really bothers me is, these are the victims we know about. How many others are too scared to come forward? How many victims were there after Victim 2 that Paterno could have saved by simply going off the flow chart and calling the police right that second for Victim 2?

Not only that, even with these victims we know about that were abused multiple times, Sandusky is still wandering around free as anything. Would that happend to any regular man working at any store, shop, or mill? No. Any regular man does not have money and can not influence authorities the way Sandusky can.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
D L X
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47):
What really bothers me is, these are the victims we know about. How many others are too scared to come forward? How many victims were there after Victim 2 that Paterno could have saved by simply going off the flow chart and calling the police right that second for Victim 2?

Seb, you do realize that in 1998, the mother of one of the victims had the police sting Sandusky? They called him on the phone, and got him to admit the rape on tape. In 1998. And they still weren't able to convict him. Why do you think Paterno's action would have been the cure all when the taped confession wasn't?

You see, you're doing what all the other detractors are doing - promote Paterno to god-like status, then slam him for not being a god.
 
seb146
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RE: Joe Paterno Died

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Why do you think Paterno's action would have been the cure all when the taped confession wasn't?

He has power and money that the woman in 1998 did not. Sandusky has power to keep all those other victims quiet.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
promote Paterno to god-like status, then slam him for not being a god.

I never thought he was a god or god-like. I don't think college sports programs should be held up on a pedistal above the education. Everyone else saying how great Paterno was are fools, frankly. He was a coach for so long is why he has so many wins. Paterno was not evil. He just didn't have a brain for anything else but college football.

This just took my breath away:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 46):
In his defense, he came from a time where - well this kind of thing was a daily occurrence. Beating your wife? everyone does it, what's the big deal? Abusing your kids? so what.

Let's add to that: Catholic priests have been abusing children for centuries. It's just what happens. C'est la vie. So what? Let's just ignore it because it will happen anyway. That is not a defense. That is an excuse to let a crime happen. And that does not make it right. Paterno allowed a crime to happen. Oh, well. Forgive and forget. It happens. Just let it go because he was a winning football coach. Let's hold him to a different standard and forget his role in the rape of children because he has a statue, wing of a library, and is beloved.
Life in the wall is a drag.

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