Ken777
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Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:48 pm

Looks like Team 6 (along with others) have struck again - this time rescuing two air workers.

Quote:

U.S. special forces swooped into Somalia in a pair of helicopters in a daring overnight raid to rescue two kidnapped aid workers -- an American and a Dane -- and killed the nine gunmen holding them,

And.

Quote:

President Barack Obama said he authorized the raid. He thanked the special operations forces for their "extraordinary courage and capabilities" but did not provide details on the fatalities.

"The United States will not tolerate the abduction of our people, and will spare no effort to secure the safety of our citizens and to bring their captors to justice," Obama said in a statement. "This is yet another message to the world that the United States of America will stand strongly against any threats to our people."

Before news broke of the rescue, Obama told Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, "Leon, good job tonight. Good job tonight," at the State of the Union address.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/25/world/...a-aid-workers/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

There will obviously be a to of articles on this, and a lot of comments. One hopes that we can keep it in a respectful recognition of those involved.

Congrats & Thank You to all those involved!   
 
sprout5199
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Congrats & Thank You to all those involved!

Bravo Zulu to all involved.

I'm glad to see that the SOF are being used for what they train for. The more they are used the better they will be. And if something goes wrong one day(and it will) remember that there is always risks, and every member of the SOF will be more than willing to take that risk, as long as you support them even when the mission fails.

SEALS 3, BAD GUYS 0

Dan in Jupiter
 
mham001
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:04 pm

As a conservative, I am happy to see that Obama is not without balls.
 
Ken777
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
As a conservative, I am happy to see that Obama is not without balls.

As Jupiter said:

"SEALS 3, BAD GUYS 0"

Every time a SEAL Team goes in it is because the President gives the Green Light. And takes the political risks associated with that decision. That is true for all Presidents: past, present and future.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
As a conservative, I am happy to see that Obama is not without balls.

I think he's demonstrated that he's quite pro-military and will use it appropriately.

Recall that this is the President who served us OBL's head on a platter.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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garpd
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Amateurs.   
The real pros are the ones who go in and out and are never seen, heard or reported about.


There is a section of the British Army that exists, but doesn't. The SAS and the US Seals are but clean up crew compared to them.

Seriously though, well done to the Seals.   
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EMBQA
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Recall that this is the President who served us OBL's head on a platter.

What exactly did he do to 'serve' OBL up..?

It was the 160th SOAR and Seal Team 6 that served him and and pulled these hostages out of harms way.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Tugger
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
What exactly did he do to 'serve' OBL up..?

It was the 160th SOAR and Seal Team 6 that served him and and pulled these hostages out of harms way.

Do CEO's REALLY do anything at companies? I think that CEO's are unneeded as all they do is "greenlight" things that are risky enough to damage a companies value. Its really only the workers that actually DO anything.

Come on, really? You don't understand how the command structure works in the military and what the "Commander in Chief" is there for? The simple fact is, the President, anyone who is President, can and do block or permit military force's actions. Who do you think greenlighted the US Armed Forces to enter Iraq in 2003? Tony Blair?

President Obama authorized the US military to enter another country's sovereign territory in an attempt to take out an important target. President Obama made the right decision but when he made it he had no of knowing exactly how it would turn out. He took a risk, on behalf of the USA, and due to our excellent military and special forces that risk paid off.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Ken777
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
What exactly did he do to 'serve' OBL up..

He made a decision to get him. Look at the cost that Carter's "Green Light" going after the Embassy Hostages in Iran.

The reality is that the President takes the ultimate responsibility for decisions like these - the buck stops at that one desk.

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Do CEO's REALLY do anything at companies?

Think about Steve Jobs and you have one solid answer. That is what an outstanding CEO does,

And is a good indication of just how few there really are these days.

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Who do you think greenlighted the US Armed Forces to enter Iraq in 2003?

CEO Cheney & Halliburton.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):

I fully understand how it works. The President signed off on the mission, but it was still Spec Ops that 'served him up'..and the Somalia Pirates last night
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
stratosphere
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:24 am

I question the timing of this. But hey I will tip my hat to the guy. I will tell you what I hate Obama but as an independent the repubs have not put anyone on the block worth a crap. As much as I want not so much Obama out but his appointments. I want Eric Holder out BAD!!!. As much as I hate Romney I might vote for him to get rid of Holder.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:27 am

I don't think anyone is congratulating anyone for "killing" anyone. He as commander in chief has the authority to green light these mission which carry a lot of potential political fallout. Can you imagine if instead of OBL in that compound, it was a high up Pakistani official and he died? The president would carry much of the blame, just as he should receive some credit for OBL's death. To what extent he credited / didn't credit previous administrations or the military, well, that's reading between the lines a bit. Good job to America's best trained!
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 10):
I question the timing of this.

It's never a bad time to rescue aid workers kidnapped in a foreign country.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
L-188
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:08 am

Ok, I am going to bring this up.

Does anybody else find the timing of the raid, just in time to be announced at the state of the union address to be slightly convinent?

I have seen articles that state the female worker was ill and that was why it happened. I have also seen articles to that have said all she needed was a bit of meds and wasn't that sick. Did the White House play up the condition of these workers in order to forward the presidents political agenda? I think he may have and view that as a mis-use of our armed forces.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Recall that this is the President who served us OBL's head on a platter.



Obama was doing the same thing Ike was doing during the Normandy invasion, Sitting in a room drinking coffee. My late D-Day invasion vet grandfather didn't think much of Ike's front like contribution to the success of that mission either.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
It was the 160th SOAR and Seal Team 6 that served him and and pulled these hostages out of harms way




DING DING DING......WINNER. And my congrats go out to those boys who are the ones that actually deserve the credit.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

Obama was doing the same thing Ike was doing during the Normandy invasion, Sitting in a room drinking coffee. My late D-Day invasion vet grandfather didn't think much of Ike's front like contribution to the success of that mission either.

So the rank of CIC means nothing? Wow, I hope you were never in the military.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Does anybody else find the timing of the raid, just in time to be announced at the state of the union address to be slightly convinent?

I'm sure politicans do shady things, but this is pretty low, I HIGHLY doubt our president would do this.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Recall that this is the President who served us OBL's head on a platter.



Obama was doing the same thing Ike was doing during the Normandy invasion, Sitting in a room drinking coffee. My late D-Day invasion vet grandfather didn't think much of Ike's front like contribution to the success of that mission either.

And what, have him, a tactical genius, die? There is a chain of command and it's harsh, but you protect your competent leadership and let the lower ranks take the bloody tasks. Now that's not to say a commander can't be near the front and in the elements with his men, but being the first one off the boat only to get obliterated is a stupid, tactical and strategic loss.


That's why I never got why people said "oh OBL why don't you blow yourself up??" Duh, because he had the leadership skills to lead, anyone can simply blow themselves up, but not all could lead al Qaeda
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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Tugger
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Ok, I am going to bring this up.

Does anybody else find the timing of the raid, just in time to be announced at the state of the union address to be slightly convinent?

I have seen articles that state the female worker was ill and that was why it happened. I have also seen articles to that have said all she needed was a bit of meds and wasn't that sick. Did the White House play up the condition of these workers in order to forward the presidents political agenda? I think he may have and view that as a mis-use of our armed forces.

Sooooo.... everything is conspiracy? Or are you implying everything President Obama does is a distraction or a means to more "power"?

Ewww kay.... I'm sure it had nothing to do with there being no moonlight on the night of the raid. Kinda only happens a few times a month.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Maverick623
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):


Obama was doing the same thing Ike was doing during the Normandy invasion, Sitting in a room drinking coffee.

More like sitting in a conference room watching the raid live with his top staff. Do you seriously have so much blind hatred for Obama that you failed to do even the most basic research?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
My late D-Day invasion vet grandfather didn't think much of Ike's front like contribution to the success of that mission either.

I don't even know how to respond to this. It's pretty clear you're blinded by some sort of hatred for those at the top of the chain.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
connies4ever
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

Does anybody else find the timing of the raid, just in time to be announced at the state of the union address to be slightly convinent?

No different than Challenger, actually. And on the ground, many knew it was a bad idea. But did the shit stick to Reagan ?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 10):
question the timing of this
Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Does anybody else find the timing of the raid, just in time to be announced at the state of the union address to be slightly convinent?

The hate for the current President that you have has blinded you.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
He made a decision to get him. Look at the cost that Carter's "Green Light" going after the Embassy Hostages in Iran.

The reality is that the President takes the ultimate responsibility for decisions like these - the buck stops at that one desk.

This is true. Look at Somalia and what happened to Clinton. And when he ordered Tomahawk strikes on OBL. Reagan got real lucky about Grenada.
I'm sure he didnt know the raid was even possible untill USSOCOM told him they needed the green light. The JCS has learned from the errors of the Johnson era about letting the WH control the missions. The WH may tell them the what and why, but not the how and when. And thats why most of the missions are successful. And the ones that arent are studied to the Nth degree for lessons learned.

Again Bravo Zulu to the SEALS and the Heli unit that supported them.

Dan in Jupiter
 
ual777
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
I don't think anyone is congratulating anyone for "killing" anyone.

I will. 9 dead dirt bags.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):


Recall that this is the President who served us OBL's head on a platter.

To be fair, that operation was years in the making. I am no Obama fan, but I will give him kudos for pulling the trigger on this op. Seal Team Six is the closest thing to a real live "League of Justice" that exists.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting ual777 (Reply 20):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
I don't think anyone is congratulating anyone for "killing" anyone.

I will. 9 dead dirt bags.

Poorly worded on my part. I meant no one is congratulating the president for directly killing anyone. Only authorizing the risky strike
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:32 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):

Poorly worded on my part. I meant no one is congratulating the president for directly killing anyone. Only authorizing the risky strike

The other thing is that a good leader delegates. A good leader knows when a subordinate is better than himself at something and allows that subordinate to do his job and generally follows his recommendations unless he has a good reason not to.

Obama knew to sit in a corner (literally) and allow the most qualified people to do their jobs. That lack of action, in and of itself, is something commendable. Other Presidents have been notorious for micromanaging and not tolerating dissent (*koff* GWB *koff koff*), a symptom of not knowing one's limits.

But in spite of that, Obama had a tough job. He was shown a bunch of intelligence that we never got to saw. We don't know how solid that intelligence was. He had to judge how solid it was, how convincing it was, and do something very risky; authorize US Military action on sovereign foreign soil. To do so without producing OBL would have been a huge political embarrassment domestically, and would have been tantamount to an act of war against Pakistan, who wouldn't have attacked, but certainly would have made a lot of noise and further weakened US interests in the Mid-East world. His decision to authorize that operation took balls. Big, shiny, brass ones.

About that, I think people misunderstand the importance of that raid. Yeah, it was great to get OBL's head on a platter, but that wasn't the big gain from that raid. That house had information about EVERYTHING Al-Qaeda. Where each safe house is, where the money comes from, what their plans are, who their members are, their E-mail addresses, probably their phone numbers, where they are, etc. etc. etc. The intelligence that came out of that house absolutely devastated AQ.

I often enjoy imagining being a terror lord; it may be ghastly, but it's also an interesting intellectual challenge. So imagine, for a moment, being OBL's successor and the CIA just got your E-mail and your phone number(s) and those of all your associates. In a public situation like this, all the contacts will know to stop communicating through those lines, but how will they get back in touch? All the lines of communication are now compromised, so how does Guy A tell Guy B what his new contact info is? They've all had to suddenly vanish; how are they going to find each-other? And that's only ONE of the many problems that the new leader has to overcome! Every training camp has to be moved. Warehouses of equipment need to be emptied. Bank accounts are now locked, so there's limited money, and it all has to be done RIGHT NOW. What a pain in the butt! They're so busy running in circles that there's no way they can mount a real attack.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):

Exactly, and wasn't there intelligence that OBL (or some high ranking AQ) was complaining that drones were killing AQ leaders faster than they could be replaced? I bet the US military had a field day after finding OBL's documents, striking all over the place before AQ could move...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
LMP737
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:36 am

Heck, I have a hard enough time getting up on the roof my house! Never mind jumping from altitude then running two miles!
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 5):
Amateurs.
The real pros are the ones who go in and out and are never seen, heard or reported about.

I´m quite sure that every country has some of THOSE as well.
But in this case it had to be public, as a message to bandits or terrorist not to think themselves safe just because they are operating or located in a remote or lawless place.
The French did the same with pirates of Somalia. Some French ships were hijacked, but in the end the hostages were freed and some pirates ending up very dead and others sentenced to long terms in French prisons. After this happened two or three times AFAIK no Frech ship has been attacked in this region anymore.
Back in the 1980s, towards the end of the civil war in Lebanon, various militias and gamgs started kidnaping asnd killing foreigners.
One day one group made the mistake of kidnapping and killing a highranking Soviet diplomat.
A while later the kidnappers were found dead in some roadside ditches with their private parts cut off and fed to them.
No Soviet or Russian was molested afterwards anymore.

Jan
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AirframeAS
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RE: Navy Seals Successful Again

Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 5):
There is a section of the British Army that exists, but doesn't.

Isn't that "Section 7" that the dude in the Transformers movie was raving all about?   
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