zhiao
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US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:09 pm

A shocking jobs number, with upward revisions for months prior. Rate drops to 8.3%. Just about all sectors added employees.

Wonder what Romney will have to say now? Obama is now where Reagan was, going into his second term.
 
tommy767
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:22 pm

gallup reports unemployment rate is currently at 8.7% not sure where the 8.3% number is coming from. Even so, 8% is still high.
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zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Excuse me, but the labor force grew, and the decline in the rate was due 100% to an increase in employment. Read the report. I know this is bad news for Romney, but give credit where it's due.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:26 pm

The good news is that all those jobs were created, it seems that things are starting to pick up. The bad news is 1.8 million people quit looking for work, and about 130,000 new jobs are needed every month just to keep up with people entering the work force. I hope the numbers continue to improve for the sake and good of all Americans.
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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:27 pm

If Mitt Romney doesn't worry about them why should you?

If you don't think that these unemployment numbers are not a big issue - then you couldn't have thought unemployment numbers were a big issue before.

Wall Street (the ones that can do no wrong) - have drunk the cool-aid. Can Wall Street be wrong?

The rally pushed pushed the Dow, up more than 5% in 2012, to the highest level since May 2008. The Nasdaq, up more than 11% for the year, climbed to its highest level since December 2000. The S&P 500 has gained almost 7% this year, and is at a six-month high.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/03/mark...markets_newyork/index.htm?iid=Lead

[Edited 2012-02-03 14:22:10 by SA7700]
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zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:27 pm

@Tommy,


Th unemployment rate is indeed 8.3%. Gallup doesn't do unemployment figures.
 
zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:30 pm

@cmh,


The labor force grew, as more people entered the LF than left. So yes, some left, but more came in.
 
zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:42 pm

Of course he would. A shame
 
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casinterest
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:48 pm

the economy is the number 1 way to win elections. Regardless of what effect the President has on it. If it is improving, then the GOP has a bigger problem unseating Obama. they will have to resort to polical battles on immigration, foreign policies, defense and social conservatism....... Which the GOP is still fighting about in the Primary's amongs themselves.

If Flanker is a strong GOP supporter, then one of the prime ammo tools for the election is slipping away.

[Edited 2012-02-03 14:24:20 by SA7700]
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:54 pm

Regardless of your political stance, more jobs = good !!
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm

Adding jobs is great, nobody in their right mind would dispute that. But anyone could have seen this from a mile away in an election year. And if you guys think that these figures wont/ aren't be screwed with then you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

Especially since the actual rate is around 15% at least give or take when you count all those previously mentioned variables.
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NoUFO
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 2):
gallup reports unemployment rate is currently at 8.7% not sure where the 8.3% number is coming from.

Department of Labor.

It is a good sign that the unemployment rate goes down in winter. There have been reports saying that the U.S. economy was doing surprisingly well.
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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting flanker (Reply 12):
Adding jobs is great, nobody in their right mind would dispute that. But anyone could have seen this from a mile away in an election year. And if you guys think that these figures wont/ aren't be screwed with then you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

So.. GWB. actually screwed with the unemployment rate to keep it artificially high (and rising) for the 2008 election year?

Jun 2008: 5.6%
Jul 2008: 5.8%
Ago 2008: 6.1%
Sep 2008: 6.1%
Oct 2008: 6.5%
Nov 2008: 6.8%

If the number can be screwed around with - why didn't Obama had a 4% unemployment rate the las 3 years?

Quoting flanker (Reply 12):
And if you guys think that these figures wont/ aren't be screwed with then you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.
Quoting flanker (Reply 12):
Especially since the actual rate is around 15% at least give or take when you count all those previously mentioned variables.

So Wall-Street has been duped!?!!! The market keeps rising.Quick - let the, know its all a fake!

[Edited 2012-02-03 10:07:05]
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Tugger
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:34 pm

I keep wondering if this will be an opportunity lost for the Republican's who have been saying that every current policy of the administration is a failure and have been withholding action on job related tasks. Had they done anything the Republican's could at least point to that and say "Things are getting better because we did X....". Of course I am certain that what they will say is that "We prevented increases in taxes and that is what allowed the economy to improve."

I believe it was the hope/expectation that Republican's would have abetter chance at winning in the election cycle by being able to say "Look how terrible things are under this administration" etc. The problem is that the economy is cycling towards improvement (though you never know, things could always still tank). We'll have to see.


1.) We can't keep extending unemployment benefits. I personally believe they should not have been extended as much as they have already (and yes, I understand the extensive hardship that would have caused. I am not meaning to get into a debate about that.)
2.) In any economy there are people that are under employed and the fact is that type of employment increases during a down cycle. It is what it is, there is no way to "fix" under employment when someone is desperate for a job and has to take one. It happens.
3.) When discussing "people giving up looking for work" remember a portion of them are people that don't didn't want to work but needed the income of the benefits. It is not a large percentage but it is there. Also most people do not "give up" looking for work unless there is a new income stream that has appeared and allows them to be stable. Again some do just give up but it is not a large percentage.


Quoting flanker (Reply 12):
Adding jobs is great, nobody in their right mind would dispute that. But anyone could have seen this from a mile away in an election year. And if you guys think that these figures wont/ aren't be screwed with then you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

Especially since the actual rate is around 15% at least give or take when you count all those previously mentioned variables.

So there is a vast left wing conspiracy? Always love the conspiracy theorists. The numbers are what they are and if they are "adjusted" they have always been adjusted to show the best numbers possible which keeps them consistent. That means the change at least is real.

Tugg


Edited for spelling

[Edited 2012-02-03 11:09:52]

[Edited 2012-02-03 14:27:43 by SA7700]
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting zhiao (Reply 3):
Excuse me, but the labor force grew, and the decline in the rate was due 100% to an increase in employment. Read the report. I know this is bad news for Romney, but give credit where it's due.

Ever since 2008, BLS numbers have been showing ridiculously low or even negative growth rates for the US workforce population. On average, the US workforce increased in size by about 1.771 million people per year. since 2008, the average has been less than half that. People haven't stopped growing up.

If we adjust the total workforce to comply with the same growth rates that were in place from 2000-2008, the actual workforce should be 160.1 million, not the 152.8 million reported by BLS. That would change the current unemployment rate to 12.6%, down from a peak of nearly 14%.

That does not count the underemployed.

Some of you might cry foul, but I think it's fair to assume that in spite of recessions, people continue to grow up and enter the workforce.
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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
That does not count the underemployed.

And it never has.. Whats your point?
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 17):

And it never has.. Whats your point?

Simply that the numbers are being fudged. Hardly a surprise, as 99% of people will ignore it. But the fact of the matter is that millions of people have been simply removed from the denominator in order to artificially lower the unemployment rate.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/People%20Not%20In%20Labor%20Force.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Participation%20Rate.jpg

in fact last month showed the biggest 1-month decline in work force participation in the past 60 years - over a million people in a single month - poof! They're gone.

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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Simply that the numbers are being fudged.

So Wall Street had fallen for this terrible deception?
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 19):

So Wall Street had fallen for this terrible deception?

Are they any different from anyone else? They watch the same news as we do, and generally don't go digging.
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STT757
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):
Wonder what Romney will have to say now?

Romney, to the disbelief of the conservative media, has admitted the economy has been getting better. What he is saying is that it's no thanks to President Obama and that in fact the President has slowed the recovery. Romney's words, but he's not denying the (gradual) improvement.
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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

Are they any different from anyone else? They watch the same news as we do, and generally don't go digging.

I would certainly hope so!

So you think that the great Wall Street Companies do not do any research? Whats more - you are saying that you know more than ANY of them.

You just blew the lid on this secret buddy!. Congratulations. Until you post - no one new that these numbers do not include underemployment.
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
I would certainly hope so!

So you think that the great Wall Street Companies do not do any research? Whats more - you are saying that you know more than ANY of them.

You just blew the lid on this secret buddy!. Congratulations. Until you post - no one new that these numbers do not include underemployment.

So you are not denying that the 8.3% unemployment number is fudged, right?
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mt99
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
So you are not denying that the 8.3% unemployment number is fudged, right?

Its the same formula that was used during Reagan, Clinton, Bush I and I - But -hey tell us about the underemployed during Reagan and GWB.

So, you are not denying that you know more than all of the Wall Street trading companies?
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Tugger
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Simply that the numbers are being fudged.

The graphs don't tell much. There is no back up to them as you did not post the contributing article that they support. Also the ranges that they cover are pretty tight which can lead to distortions. For the labor force participation rate I would have to see what the historic cycle is, the graph presented looks like it could be just one cycle of a normal cycle. Without a larger view you can't tell if they are just cherry picking.

Also ZeroHedge is known to be a "stir the pot" blog. Stirring things up and getting others to look and then see if things are discovered to back up the assertions. Not saying it is a bad site, just how it operates. What it states is not always fact and often enough conjecture backed up with numbers that others have to vet. They have made some good points and discovered some good things but they stir first to get other to dig.

Tugg
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casinterest
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:07 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Simply that the numbers are being fudged. Hardly a surprise, as 99% of people will ignore it. But the fact of the matter is that millions of people have been simply removed from the denominator in order to artificially lower the unemployment rate.

Show your source for the first graph?
The following source ,which is the DOL. Shows your graph is a sham.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Your 2nd graph doesn't take into account that the retirees are living longer in retirement. Along

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
in fact last month showed the biggest 1-month decline in work force participation in the past 60 years - over a million people in a single month - poof! They're gone.

Nope
Nope it went up by over a million
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Tugger
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:07 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
Romney, to the disbelief of the conservative media, has admitted the economy has been getting better. What he is saying is that it's no thanks to President Obama and that in fact the President has slowed the recovery. Romney's words, but he's not denying the (gradual) improvement.

That's what I would expect the Republican's to say. And if the economy continues to improve they will say it even more stridently.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
So you are not denying that the 8.3% unemployment number is fudged, right?

Are you denying they were fudged when the rate was 4%? Are you saying they are not always shown to be as favorable as possible? The "real rate" can almost always be shown to be about twice what the "published" rate is, the key thing is consistency so that the markets can manage and plan with.

Should GWB have insisted that the calculation be changed to a "less favorable" calculation during his administration "So people will know the real number instead of this artificially low number!"? How do you think the markets would have reacted even during the relative prosperity of that time?

And regarding my comment in my previous post about the labor force participation rate and the cycles involved, check this out:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/08/01/DiCecio.pdf

Quote:
CONCLUSION: THE FUTURE OF LABOR FORCE PARTICIPATION

During the past half century, the U.S. LFPR has seen dramatic changes, which have been driven by the rise of women’s participation, an aging of the baby-boom generation, and growing ethnic diversity within the general population. What does the future hold for U.S. labor force participation? According to a report published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the overall LFPR is projected to decrease slightly to 65.6 percent in 2014 (Toossi, 2005). Twomain factors are expected to continue to exert downward pressure on the participation rate: the continued decline in the teen LFPR—which is projected to decline from 43.9 percent in 2004 to 39.3 percent in 2014— and the aging of the baby-boom generation. This second factor, however, is likely to lower aggregate participation rates for the next several decades.

As mentioned earlier, the baby boomers have already begun entering into the 55-and-older age category. In her BLS report, Toossi (2005) projected that the fraction of Americans in this age group will rise from 28.4 percent of the adult population today to 33.7 percent by 2014; the Census Bureau projects this figure to be 39 percent by 2030. In contrast, the fraction of the population in the prime-age working group is projected to fall from 55.3 percent today to 51.1 percent by 2014 and 47 percent by 2030.

As baby boomers enter successive age groups, their LFPR should fall dramatically. For instance, the 55 to 59 age group had an LFPR of 72 percent in 2006, and the 60 to 64 age group had an LFPR of approximately 53 percent. Among those 65 and older, the LFPR was just over 15 percent. These numbers, coupled with the increasing proportion of the U.S. population beyond their prime working age over the coming years, suggest that successive generations will be unable to compensate for the baby boomers’ exit from the labor force and U.S. labor supply will decline.


Tugg

[Edited 2012-02-03 12:21:07]
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zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:50 pm

There is no fudging; if people left the labor force and this leads to an unemployment rate that is lower but for the exit, it's simply a fact, and not a conspiracy of the BLS. But of course, many left the LF because they are retiring early, so it's not entirely true that this people are exiting because they have given up.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
Romney, to the disbelief of the conservative media, has admitted the economy has been getting better. What he is saying is that it's no thanks to President Obama and that in fact the President has slowed the recovery. Romney's words, but he's not denying the (gradual) improvement.

That's what I would expect the Republican's to say. And if the economy continues to improve they will say it even more stridently.

Well think about that for a second. It makes sense that you can have an ineffective leader that doesn't do much to fix the economy, but the economy will naturally rebound. It pretty much disproves the "Obama is teh worst evar!!!!1" chants and that the economy is going down the drains. Slow growth does not necessarily mean good policy. In the end, it is up to the people to decide
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Rara
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):

If you don't think that these unemployment numbers are not a big issue - then you couldn't have thought unemployment numbers were a big issue before.

OK maybe it's because I've been out drinking, but I've just spent a couple minutes over this sentence and still haven't worked it out.   
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DocLightning
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting flanker (Reply 10):
Adding jobs is great, nobody in their right mind would dispute that. But anyone could have seen this from a mile away in an election year. And if you guys think that these figures wont/ aren't be screwed with then you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

I do wonder if the President was a Republican if you would be so suspicious. Even in the Detroit area, the papers are filling with want ads. Are they also being invented by this administration?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
Are they any different from anyone else? They watch the same news as we do, and generally don't go digging.

Ah yes, the classical conspiracy theory. Everyone else are dumb sheep with no critical thinking skills but YOU and YOU ALONE, Dreaddy are wise and astute enough to see through this propaganda from the Obama politbureau. I'm so glad we have you to be a warrior on the side of truth and light.  
Quoting CASINTEREST (Reply 24):
The following source ,which is the DOL. Shows your graph is a sham.

Oh dear... you mean that someone might be manipulated by heavily partisan sources of information? Someone who might accuse all nonpartisan sources of information of being in cahoots?

Have you ever been in cahoots? It's a lovely place. The only thing is that you can't go there alone. You always have to be in cahoots with someone else...  

All kidding aside (and it was kidding, Mods, not a "personal attack" on another board member who I respect, even though he's always wrong about everything   ), this is good news, but it is not GREAT news. It will take the better part of a decade at this rate to bring the unemployment rate below the magical 5% number. As for Romney (or whomever the GOP picks), this is not necessarily horrible news, either. We could be doing a lot better, which is a point that a challenging candidate could seize on.
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seb146
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting zhiao (Thread starter):
Obama is now where Reagan was, going into his second term.

Hasn't the right-wing been screaming about how much Obama hates corporations and capitalists and hates the markets and the high unemployment that began under Bush II was actually Obama's fault? I just wonder how Obama Lite (Romney) and the Second Coming of Reagan (Gingrich) and "Our only job is to make sure Obama is not re-elected" McConnell will spin this to make themselves look like roses and Obama look like the evil Communist/Socialist/Marxist/Maoist/Stateist/Kenyan Muslim they all claim he is, even though he proves time and again he is not!
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pu
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:08 am

It seems to me if the rate falls to well within the 7s, Obama is much harder to beat. If it falls to within the 6s by election day I say he is almost unbeatable.

Pu
 
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CALTECH
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
Simply that the numbers are being fudged. Hardly a surprise, as 99% of people will ignore it. But the fact of the matter is that millions of people have been simply removed from the denominator in order to artificially lower the unemployment rate.

  

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
in fact last month showed the biggest 1-month decline in work force participation in the past 60 years - over a million people in a single month - poof! They're gone.

  

A look at the bls.gov website shows that:

In December 2011, 132,952,000 people had a job.

In January 2012, 130,263,000 people had a job.

This is a net loss of 2,689,000 jobs from December to January.

The unemployment number is down because over a million people gave up looking for work.
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Dreadnought
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting CASINTEREST (Reply 24):
Show your source for the first graph?
The following source ,which is the DOL. Shows your graph is a sham.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/...t.pdf

You provided the source. Check page 7 of your link.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 32):
The unemployment number is down because over a million people gave up looking for work.

Is it that they stopped looking for a job or is it that they have retired? Or could it be that they have taken positions that other people have left behind while their old positions were frozen?

Does it hurt giving Obama credit for getting the economy going? I bet if it had been McCain, we'd be seeing posts worshiping him as the Ronald Reagan of the century.
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Okie
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 32):
This is a net loss of 2,689,000 jobs from December to January.

Let us see food stamp recipients have grown 40% from 32M to 46M people under the present administration, kind of gives a clue that the work force has given up looking for work and need to feed their families.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
I do wonder if the President was a Republican if you would be so suspicious

I would like nothing more than to see the economy take off regardless of who is in the Whitehouse.
Massaging the numbers and touting a 2.5M loss in the work force is just seriously disingenuous.

Quoting Pu (Reply 31):
It seems to me if the rate falls to well within the 7s, Obama is much harder to beat. If it falls to within the 6s by election day I say he is almost unbeatable.

Precisely why the numbers are modified, The real number for the U3 would be closer to 10% than 8.3 and the U6 would be near 17% under/unemployed.

Using the present methods will make future growth under the next administration look huge for little effort.

Okie
 
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Tugger
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:55 am

I don't understand why people here keep just posting rhetoric and do not read what has been posted. Instead we have people intent on making some kind of political point.

The numbers are not gamed, manipulated, distorted, anymore than they always are. The change in the rate is real. The participation rate has been expected to change in the manner it is changing for quite a while. That more people are on food stamps and other forms of assistance is also expected, it happens any time there is a downturn in the economy.

That the economy is improving and unemployment rate is going down should not be a surprise to anyone actually paying attention. That it is occurring even with our screwed up politicians is what is actually impressive.

Tugg
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seb146
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 36):
That the economy is improving and unemployment rate is going down should not be a surprise to anyone actually paying attention.

The right wing hates it because it is a Black Democrat in the White House doing it. Eight years of rich White guys screwing up the economy and only 3 of mixed race and mixed gender fixing it. The right wing HATES it! They are doing everything they can to spin this their way and keep everyone from seeing the Kenyan Muslim Marxist/Socialist/Communist is actually doing something good and right.

Quoting tugger (Reply 36):
That it is occurring even with our screwed up politicians is what is actually impressive.

Here is one thing the right can be proud of: These are low-wage jobs so those people can pay for tax breaks and welfare for the millionares and billionares. After all, one of these days, working part-time at Wal Mart, you too, will be able to enjoy those low, low tax rates and non-taxed income from dividends from the Cayman Islands accounts!
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zhiao
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:26 pm

They are not all low wage jobs; the healthcare industry and manufacturing both added large amounts of jobs, and they are high paying.

Manufacturing added 50,000 jobs, the highest since 1998. Manufacturing is coming back. Thanks Obama for bailing out the Big 3.
 
Ken777
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting CASINTEREST (Reply 8):
the economy is the number 1 way to win elections.

And most voters will evaluate the economy and politicians based on soundbites.

Quoting flanker (Reply 10):
Especially since the actual rate is around 15% at least give or take when you count all those previously mentioned variables.

There are a lot of ways to look at the country's unemployment situation, including rates that include those who have stopped looking for work and the underemployed. I think both are legitimate approaches and should be looked at over a long period of time to put it into perspective.

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
In any economy there are people that are under employed and the fact is that type of employment increases during a down cycle.

What we have to focus on with the underemployed is the potential loss they represent. Made a mortgage payment before the axe fell? Solid credit ratings? University educated (with student loans to pay)?

Now they don't have money to pay the mortgage or the student loans. So they default on the house just as that market is collapsing. Credit rating is far lower, maybe with a bankruptcy. And maybe even low income federal and state benefits being paid out. But they have a "job".

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
Also most people do not "give up" looking for work unless there is a new income stream that has appeared and allows them to be stable.

Or they discover how much money is to be made cooking & selling meth. Or any of the other drugs that generate a profit.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
Some of you might cry foul, but I think it's fair to assume that in spite of recessions, people continue to grow up and enter the workforce.

Of course we will continue with people entering the workforce. The scary part is that a lot of quality jobs are being shipped overseas so we will continue shifting to a service economy. Flipping burgers instead of working in manufacturing does nothing to build confidence in the country's future.
 
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 35):
Let us see food stamp recipients have grown 40% from 32M to 46M people under the present administration, kind of gives a clue that the work force has given up looking for work and need to feed their families.

Which is less than under the previous administration, actually.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
The right wing hates it because it is a Black Democrat in the White House doing it.

He is? How? He's sure tried, but the GOP has blocked every effort. In spite of that, the economy is slowly recovering, which is absolutely amazing.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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seb146
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
Quoting okie (Reply 35):Let us see food stamp recipients have grown 40% from 32M to 46M people under the present administration, kind of gives a clue that the work force has given up looking for work and need to feed their families.
Which is less than under the previous administration, actually.

And it is very telling what kind of jobs are being created. People keep saying how they want jobs created so people can feed themselves and house themselves and buy themselves health care, but when these jobs only pay enough for some of the rent and some of the food and none of the health care, there is a problem. I love how the charities step in to help, like the right wing loves to say.
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DocLightning
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 41):
And it is very telling what kind of jobs are being created. People keep saying how they want jobs created so people can feed themselves and house themselves and buy themselves health care, but when these jobs only pay enough for some of the rent and some of the food and none of the health care, there is a problem. I love how the charities step in to help, like the right wing loves to say.

I'm reminded of this point in the Clinton administration. There was a political cartoon of Clinton bragging about new job creation: "Our administration has created XXX Jobs!" and there was a waiter standing behind him saying: "Yes, and I have three of them."

There is recovery. But we didn't get into this mess overnight and we won't be getting out of it overnight.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Pangea
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:57 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
The right wing hates it because it is a Black Democrat in the White House doing it.

No, the right wing and folks with common sense hate obama's agenda because we know what he wants is extremely detrimental to the US as a whole. Have you seen America's debt? Apparently not. Obama has out spent the last white guy in the the white house in 3 years which took Bush 8.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
Eight years of rich White guys screwing up the economy and only 3 of mixed race and mixed gender fixing it.

If obama, reid and polosi did nothing the economy would be fairing far better, with far less debt. BTW, the economy didn't start to turn the corner until republicans won the house 2 years ago, which slowed liberal spending. And the root cause of the Obama depression was the result of a liberal social welfare program called the community reinvestment act.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
The right wing hates it because it is a Black Democrat in the White House doing it

If a White Guy said that about a minority he'd be labeled a racist.   

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
They are doing everything they can to spin this their way and keep everyone from seeing the Kenyan Muslim Marxist/Socialist/Communist is actually doing something good and right.

  

Seb146,

Obama along with his profligate spending liberal friends are the ones responsible for America loosing its AAA bond rating. And NO? It's not the Tea Parties fault. It simply comes down to the US taking on way too much dept which has now exceed 15 trillion.

You're the one guilty of spinning things my friend!   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CMy2M32g4k

[Edited 2012-02-05 06:35:20]

[Edited 2012-02-05 06:36:49]
 
Pangea
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
He's sure tried, but the GOP has blocked every effort. In spite of that, the economy is slowly recovering, which is absolutely amazing.

That's inaccurate. The democrat controlled senate has not passed a budget in over 1000 days... that's one thousand days, close to 3 years. The rep controlled House on the other hand has made several attempts to lower spending only to be demagogged.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...et/2012/02/03/gIQAbLwfpQ_blog.html

Also worth mentioning is Obama's budget failed in the Senate 97-0. Looks like democrats are to blame too.   

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/05/029100.php

NOT A SINGLE SENATOR SUPPORTS BARACK OBAMA’S BUDGET
 
seb146
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting Pangea (Reply 43):
republicans won the house 2 years ago, which slowed liberal spending.

And how many years did the right-wing controlled House spend because (to quote the former VP Cheney) "Deficits don't matter" and they just spent, and spent, and spent. We did not amass this $15 Trillion in only 2 years. Keep in mind how many years the right wing held on to the House, where spending originates.

Quoting Pangea (Reply 43):
root cause of the Obama depression was the result of a liberal social welfare program called the community reinvestment act.

Riiiiiight. It wasn't the global empire and wars and creating new departments and new levels of government between 2000 and 2008. That had nothing to do with it at all.

I just wonder what the economy would be like right now if Obama hadn't bailed out the auto companies.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:55 pm

This left vs right, democrat vs republican pissing match is the reason why nothing ever gets done in this country. No one ever owns up to their party or mistakes. Disgraceful
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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Tugger
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):
The right wing hates it because it is a Black Democrat in the White House doing it.

Very uncalled for. Very untrue.

Quoting Pangea (Reply 43):
Obama along with his profligate spending liberal friends are the ones responsible for America loosing its AAA bond rating.

No it is not at all. It is the inability of the the legislature to work together and balance revenues and expenses that caused the rating to drop. Nothing else. Had the legislature raised taxes to meet obligations or cut expenses or a combination of both the rating would likely not have been lowered.

You (as an individual or a country) can spend as much money as you want as long as as you plan and have the income to cover it. You can spend as little money as you want as long as you address the needs of the citizens.
BUT either needs to be planned and be under control and have balance.

You can't just cut expenses to become successful (as a company or country) nor can you just spend your way to success either. You must have a plan and a team that works together toward a common goal.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 46):
This left vs right, democrat vs republican pissing match is the reason why nothing ever gets done in this country.

  

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Pangea
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
nd how many years did the right-wing controlled House spend because (to quote the former VP Cheney) "Deficits don't matter" and they just spent, and spent, and spent. We did not amass this $15 Trillion in only 2 years. Keep in mind how many years the right wing held on to the House, where spending originates.


Unfortunately, you're not seeing my point and I never said you/obama/liberals amassed a $15 trillion deficit. I just pointed out how much obama added to it in such a minute time. Obama was elected to stop wasteful spending or at least he said he would. What did he do? Raised the deficit the equivalent in 3 years what George Bush raised in 2 terms in office, i.e. 8 years. So heinous was Obama's spending the US lost its long term AAA bond rating. An unprecedented event caused solely by Obama and liberal Keynesian spending.

What did the Stimulus cost? Almost $1 trillion. Did it work? NO!

Bush raised the deficit 4 trillion in 8 years. It took Obama less than 3 to reach that mile stone. So, using your logic it was wrong for the rich, white republicans to spend what obama has in 3 years which took the reps 8 years. Obama would have spend billions, trillions more if not for the tea party/reb landslide victory in 2010. Sorry, but that doesn't pass the smell test.  

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):
I just wonder what the economy would be like right now if Obama hadn't bailed out the auto companies.


Well, the US would be less in debt, auto companies would have restructured to a more cost effective business model, ultimately reducing the likelihood of future bailouts... saving tax payer money!

sep146,

Where would the US economy be if Obama didn't waste billions on solyndra and chevy volt?   

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...-exposes-lie-government-investment

Solyndra scandal exposes the lie of government 'investment'

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...overnment-investment#ixzz1lXcKamiv
 
Pangea
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RE: US Added 240,000 Jobs; Rate Down

Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 47):

No it is not at all. It is the inability of the the legislature to work together and balance revenues and expenses that caused the rating to drop. Nothing else. Had the legislature raised taxes to meet obligations or cut expenses or a combination of both the rating would likely not have been lowered.

You're mistaken and that's simply a progressive media talking point to spread the blame on everyone when it solely falls on Obama/reid/pelosi. The House passed a bill that would have avoided the down grade. But Harry Reid didn't even allow the bill to be voted on. I will state this again: The US was down graded because we took on too much debt, debt that we can not pay back. Credit agencies deal with facts, not emotions.

If ObamaCare wasn't implemented the likelihood of a down grade would have been drastically reduced. Same goes for his wasteful and costly stimulus.

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