racko
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Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:27 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yn-eejMcmuA#

I hope all Dutch members are wearing their "do not euthanize" bracelets...

Seriously, Santorum is currently the leading contender for the Republican party.

America, you are scary.
 
petertenthije
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
I hope all Dutch members are wearing their "do not euthanize" bracelets...

Not yet! But thanks for bringing up this thread! I did not know about this, I must order myself a few bracelets immediately. I don't want to die! Thankfully I am not elderly yet so if I understand Santorum correctly I suppose I've got some time to get my bracelets!
Attamottamotta!
 
sw733
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
America, you are scary.

You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?
 
mbmbos
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?

And you realize this is the Republican candidate who is currently leading in the polls?

Scary.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 3):
And you realize this is the Republican candidate who is currently leading in the polls?

And you do realize that at this point, there have been no fewer than 5 or 6 candidates who have lead said polls. Flavors of the month. They come and go.

Regardless, all he's doing here is pandering for the older vote, IMO.

-DiamondFlyer
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danielmyatt
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:09 pm

He is a dangerous, dangerous individual.
 
Mir
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:10 pm

Ah, but what you can't see in the video is that Santorum is actually wearing his "Do Not Believe A Word I Say" bracelet. He's been wearing it a lot recently.

The guy is simply not living in reality. It says a lot about how Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich are received within the party (for reasons I can't figure out - you'd think one of them would be doing well) that he's in the position that he is.

-Mir
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 pm

It pains me to say this as a "uhmerrrcun", but I can relate very much with he top comment on the video:

Quote:
I know Americans aren't very bright people.. but this I did not expect. If you say this in The Netherlands.. your political career is over. Because everyone will think you are stupid. I don't know who's more stupid, the people who believe what this guy is saying, or Rick Santorum himself..

.. this is why we don't have any respect for the US.. they don't have any brains to think for themselves and believe in stupid fairy tales their government tells them.

As a former US expat, I understand this sentiment 100%

[Edited 2012-02-19 15:21:37]
 
aloges
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?

Trust me, most of us in this forum are very much aware of that. In a crude attempt at differentiating, I like to think of the extremes as gun-totin' Gawd-fearin' Uhmurrucah and tree-hugging radically vegan Oh-My-God-I'm-So-Ashamed-Of-It-country.  Wink

However, there seems to be enough ignorance in America for Rick Santorum to gain support and influence with such ridiculous statements. That is indeed scary.

[Edited 2012-02-19 15:34:47]
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NoUFO
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Ah, but what you can't see in the video is that Santorum is actually wearing his "Do Not Believe A Word I Say" bracelet.

  Thanks, that was great!
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petertenthije
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?

Of course we do. But just the fact that not only he can run but actually win several states says a lot about the mental well being of a rather large amount of Americans that voted in the primaries thus far.

I know that to many Americans the idea of a president who could have been "the guy next door" is very appealing. But there are also brain surgeons and rocket scientists living next door to someone. Why can't you pick someone with their level of intelect? Santorum is trying to get the office of one of the most important jobs in the world for crying out loud! Get some standards already!


Anyway, I'm gonna toss a few grannies in the fire. It's getting cold here.  
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MillwallSean
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:28 am

I just hope gets to be president. haha, its so sad one has to laugh.
I love the lady saying ahh like she is having a eureka moment. She must really be a clever woman...

I just would love to see a pool of how many of his supporters that has a passport or have been overseas. Seriously if you can say such things openly and be considered fit for presidency hehe then its just sad. Really sad.

You wouldnt think they can make such things up even. Its so stupid im just left speachless.
What an embarrassement for any American to see this.
Shaking my head in disbelief.
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usflyer msp
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:36 am

Please don't judge the US by Rick Santorum's statements. Most Americans think he is an idiot too. Santorum winning the Republican nomination would be the greatest gift the GOP ever gave to Obama,
 
NoUFO
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 12):
Please don't judge the US by Rick Santorum's statements.

Don't worry. But I really wonder if this guy regularly reads conspiracy websites (or perhaps The Onion) and take what they publish for granted. When you google netherlands + euthanasia + santorum you get more than 2.4 million results already. It would not suprise me would Santorum's popularity go downhill from here.

[Edited 2012-02-19 16:50:40]
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DocLightning
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):

The guy is simply not living in reality.

Yes is. He is LYING.

He knows exactly what he is doing.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):

You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?

Everyone knows that. But the fact is that he sure speaks for a LOT of Americans. The fact that there are enough Americans that this man gets TV time to say what he does is frightening. It speaks of a country with a DEEP fracture in its moral system.
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ltbewr
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:03 am

From the clip, this is more about his being against 'Obamacare', using twisted lies of what happens in The Netherlands as to Euthanasia, implying it's use will be expanded here if government has 'state' control of medical services. This also dovetails into his interptation of Roman Catholic beliefs. The real motive is to use as a phony issue to get the 'holy rollers' and anit-govenment, anti-liberal voters as well to distract from not talking about other issues that would basically help the 1%ers.

Generally in the USA, in the absence of a 'living will' or medical directive, usually required by many doctors or by hospitals if undergoing a medical procedure with risks, they will keep you alive as long as possible and not 'pull the plug'. Generally they would per instructions not keep up hydration or nourishment if in a permenant vegative state or with no realistic hope of recovery along with probably placement into a hospice section of the hospital to let you die naturally Although some states have tried to offer legal Euthanasia laws, they have generally been struck down in appeals to high level State and Federal Courts out of potential misuse of it. So Santorum is just doesn't know what he is talking about.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 15):
From the clip, this is more about his being against 'Obamacare', using twisted lies of what happens in The Netherlands as to Euthanasia, implying it's use will be expanded here if government has 'state' control of medical services.

It's called telling lies about people to get your followers to hate them.

It's what Hitler, Stalin, etc. did. Fortunately, the American people will not elect Rick Santorum as President.
-Doc Lightning-

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dc9northwest
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:39 am

What's the Netherlands got to do with the young people of Asia? Santorum doesn't know his geography, obviously. [/joke]

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Fortunately, the American people will not elect Rick Santorum as President.

I hope (and think) you're right.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:48 am

And just to clarify, Obama has never told such lies about his adversaries and their plans. He has never tried to mischaracterize them for anything other than what they really are. In fact, he has been entirely too charitable to his opponents. He needs to start calling them what they are, which is a bunch of totalitarian nationalists.
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Quokkas
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:42 am

I wonder where Santorum gets his figures from and what evidence he has for his claims. In 2011 approximately 135,000 people died in the Netherlands and based on his claim that would be 13,500+ instances of assisted deaths. If half of those were "involuntary" that would mean 6,725+ people were killed for the sake of expediency.

Only trouble is that involuntary euthanasia is contrary to Netherlands laws and the figure quoted as "involuntary" exceeds by far the total number of assisted deaths. By law all assisted deaths must be reported. In 2010 the reported figure was 3,136 or 2.3% of all deaths, not the 10% as claimed by Santorum.

It is amazing what politicians of all persuasions will claim in order to get elected. No wonder that the biggest insult that you direct at a person is call him a politician. It's even worse than calling someone a used car salesman or journalist.  

[Edited 2012-02-19 20:56:10]
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:56 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 8):
However, there seems to be enough ignorance in America for Rick Santorum to gain support and influence with such ridiculous statements. That is indeed scary.

Even in Pennsyl-tucky (as I call my home state of Pennsylvania), the voters got smart to Santorum's ways. Ricky is a culture-warrior first and foremost. When it became apparent his approval poll numbers were very low, he want on an ear-mark binge to bring home the "pork" barrel projects for Pennsylvania. As a result, he had to support other Senators pet projects (like the infamous Alaskan bridge to nowhere) and his credentials as a fiscal conservative (what little credentials he had) went up in smoke. Ricky lost his reelection bid to the Senate in 2006 by a HUGE 18 points.to another political insider, Bob Casey Jr. - the son of a former (and surprisingly, anti-abortion) Democratic Pennsylvania governor.

Santorum is only in the Republican primary race because he has a billionaire benefactor in Foster Friess, a former investment banker and the "Brandywine Fund" hedge fund manager that has supported numerous religious and far-right-wing groups. Santorum owes his place in the primary to the financial support of an investment banker - Santorum is as connected to Wall Street and K Street lobbyists as ANYONE else in the race (including the President). He is not an outsider and is NOT for the average citizen, as much as he talks about the feeling the pain of middle-class Americans. He's an extreme right-winger on culture and social issues, and a moderate at best on fiscal issues.

Welcome to the American political "silly season"!!   
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 20):
Santorum is only in the Republican primary race because he has a billionaire benefactor...

Well, as he is an unemployed politician, getting his name in the papers every primary season is a good way to get some speaking gigs and sell some books. That's what I figured his motivation is. Him leading polls is like a dog catching a car.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:36 am

It is indeed scary that this person has even a chance at winning the republican nomination. The Republican idea that having an IQ over 80 and/or a good education is a minus when running for president because it makes you an "elitist" is deeply disturbing. It's been a growing trend since Spiro Agnew, but it's recently gone to a new level.

That said, PLEASE make him the nominee. That will guarantee that we don't have some other almost as scary right wing nut job elected next year, because he will lose so spectacularly.

PS: Sorry Netherlands. Someone had to take over where Bill O'Reilly left off making up bizarre stuff about you. (Then again, you do have some scary politicians of your own. I think for all their differences that Rick Santorum and Geert Wilders would make great bed-buddies--in fact, I am waiting for the scandal to break that exposes their affair!)
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mdsh00
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
Seriously, Santorum is currently the leading contender for the Republican party.

America, you are scary.

Polls never tell 100% of the story. The Republican Party and the majority of Americans know that if by some crazy fluke Santorum gets the nomination, Obama will destroy him in the General Election.

This is again very typical for politicians to do before the nomination; pander to those at the more extreme end of the party and then shift more towards the center during the general election. Santorum is known to make the most noise about social issues and the slur created from his name is a good example. He's a joke on the national stage and frankly all of this GOP infighting is a gift for Obama.
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Mir
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 22):
The Republican idea that having an IQ over 80 and/or a good education is a minus when running for president because it makes you an "elitist" is deeply disturbing.

I still can't believe people saw John Huntsman's ability to speak Chinese as something bad. He was the ambassador to the country - of course he's going to speak the language, otherwise he'd be crap at his job!   

-Mir
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JRadier
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:53 am

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 1):

Not yet! But thanks for bringing up this thread! I did not know about this, I must order myself a few bracelets immediately. I don't want to die! Thankfully I am not elderly yet so if I understand Santorum correctly I suppose I've got some time to get my bracelets!

I was thinking the exact same thing! Can you order me some as well?

F*cking idiot!...   
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smittyone
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 10):
I know that to many Americans the idea of a president who could have been "the guy next door" is very appealing. But there are also brain surgeons and rocket scientists living next door to someone. Why can't you pick someone with their level of intelect?

Because those people are generally too smart to engage in politics in the US.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:40 pm

Why are people worrying about what happens in the Neatherlands, when (according to Governor Palin) Obama's healthcare bill includes death panels.
                 

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
It's what Hitler, Stalin, etc. did. Fortunately, the American people will not elect Rick Santorum as President.

However it would be hilarious if he got the republican nomination....  
Quoting n229nw (Reply 22):
That said, PLEASE make him the nominee. That will guarantee that we don't have some other almost as scary right wing nut job elected next year, because he will lose so spectacularly.

  
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rabenschlag
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:38 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 10):
But there are also brain surgeons and rocket scientists living next door to someone. Why can't you pick someone with their level of intelect?

you are aware of the stereotypes about surgeons, even brain surgeons?
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
Quoting racko (Thread starter):
America, you are scary.

You do realize he doesn't speak for all Americans, no?

Well, not all. Just the four states he's won recently and the possible ones he may win. This primary is far from over.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Fortunately, the American people will not elect Rick Santorum as President.

I'd like to think that, but we're still 9 months from the November elections: a lot can happen that might tempt people to pick him (IF he clinches the GOP nomination).

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 17):
What's the Netherlands got to do with the young people of Asia? Santorum doesn't know his geography, obviously.

This is a guy who said that Africa was a country on the brink. Since when is Africa a country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRusxE2KRa8
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Dreadnought
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:16 pm



This is why I could never support Santorum in the Primary (although I would still of course vote for him against Obama - a monkey could do a better job than the current president).

I don't care about abortion, gay marriage and other social issues at this point. Which is the party and candidate most likely to reduce federal spending overall and close the budget gap? That should be the ONLY question on everyone's mind.

Quoting mdsh00 (Reply 23):

Polls never tell 100% of the story. The Republican Party and the majority of Americans know that if by some crazy fluke Santorum gets the nomination, Obama will destroy him in the General Election.

Especially if this video gets around - which I hope it does frankly, before Super Tuesday
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Dreadnought
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:55 pm

By the way, it seems that Santorum actually has some facts to back him up on this Dutch euthanasia issue.

http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/holland-background/

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/jun/10061607

The key appears to center around what is strictly defined by Dutch law as euthanasia and what is not, while still being the intentional ending of a patient's life by his doctors (which, broadly if not legally speaking, IS euthanasia).
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
mt99
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
This is why I could never support Santorum in the Primary (although I would still of course vote for him against Obama - a monkey could do a better job than the current president).

Seriously?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
By the way, it seems that Santorum actually has some facts to back him up on this Dutch euthanasia issue.

Good, Then you got vote for him with a clear conciseness.
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ltbewr
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
This is why I could never support Santorum in the Primary (although I would still of course vote for him against Obama - a monkey could do a better job than the current president).

I would suggest that using the word monkey and as a put down of our current President who is of African heritage (born in the USA) is bordering on racist and definitely inappropriate.

I do think that the shift by the Republicans as to pushing exaggerated social issues is because they have no real answers to help the masses but to morally shame them as to wanting and needing government assistance, they want to cover up continuing policies that benefit the '1%'ers'.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
I would suggest that using the word monkey and as a put down of our current President who is of African heritage (born in the USA) is bordering on racist and definitely inappropriate.

I did not call him a monkey. That would be an insult to the monkey. I said the monkey would do a better job. Nothing racist about it. I'd say the same thing if Nancy Pelosi were president and followed the same policies.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
I do think that the shift by the Republicans as to pushing exaggerated social issues is because they have no real answers to help the masses

Most people don't WANT their help! Their help brought us Fannie/Freddie, Solyndra etc. Most of us want them to get out of the way.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
mt99
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 34):
Most people don't WANT their help! Their help brought us Fannie/Freddie, Solyndra etc. Most of us want them to get out of the way.

Polls have Obama up these days

"In a potential Election 2012 matchup, the president leads Mitt Romney by a 46% to 42% margin. If Rick Santorum is the Republican nominee, the president leads 47% to 44%"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...n/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

This one is also interesting

"52% Favor Candidate Who Would Raise Taxes on Wealthy"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...e_who_would_raise_taxes_on_wealthy

[Edited 2012-02-20 08:09:16]
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Dreadnought
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 35):
Polls have Obama up these days

Obviously - the GOP is beating each other up and Obama is hardly getting any attention.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
mt99
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):

Obviously - the GOP is beating each other up and Obama is hardly getting any attention.

How do you get from "not getting any attention " to "gaining followers?

The only link i can see is that people are realizing how messed up the GOP is. Romney and Sanatorum keep attacking Obama as much as each other
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dc9northwest
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 35):
"In a potential Election 2012 matchup, the president leads Mitt Romney by a 46% to 42% margin. If Rick Santorum is the Republican nominee, the president leads 47% to 44%"

What??? Santorum is doing better than Romney in the polls? At least Romney is not a total looney!

Social conservatives are exactly why I don't support any of the main parties in the USA. They put me off completely.

Where's Gary Johnson when you need him? He should be leading in the polls IMO.
 
mt99
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 38):

Where's Gary Johnson when you need him? He should be leading in the polls IMO.

Well he is not. The reality of the matter is that this is as good as it gets for the GOP.
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petertenthije
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:13 pm

Anyway, to bring some facts in this discussion. Here are the legal articles that deal with euthanasia in the Netherlands. Euthanasia is ruled by article 293 of the penal code. I've put the link to the government's website for easy reference. Of course the articles are in Dutch. so what you see below is my translation. As you can see below euthanasia is not something that can be pushed through quickly, neither can it be forced upon any of the parties involved:

PENAL CODE
293-1 He who deliberately takes the live of another at his/her specific request will be punished by at most 12 years in prison or a fine of the 5th category. (my comment: up to 78.000 euro)
293-2 The fact described in previous article is not punishable in case it was done by a certified doctor that met all due-care mandates, described in article 2 of the "law diagnosing euthanasia", and reports this to the coroner as described in article 7-2 of the law on body disposal.

http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR000185...kel293/geldigheidsdatum_04-02-2012


LAW ON DIAGNOSING EUTHANASIA
2-1 The due-care mandates described in penal code article 293-2 are:
2-1a The patient has made his decision under careful consideration and of free will. (my comment: a senile or comatose person is for instance not eligible)
2-1b The patient is suffering with no prospect for improvement.
2-1c The patient is well informed of his situation and prospects for treatment / pain relief.
2-1d The doctor has to agree with the patient that there is no other reasonable course of action. (my comment: the doctor has full veto power)
2-1e The doctor must have consulted at least one independent doctor. The second doctor must have seen the patient and judged the patient on steps A to D mentioned above.
2-1f After the euthanasia the doctor has to prove that the suicide was done with due care and attention.

2-2 In case the patient, 16 year or older, is incapacitated to decide (my comment: for instance brain-dead, paralyzed), but made a written statement prior to being incapacitated that he or she would like to be euthanized under these circumstances, then the doctor is allowed to do a euthanasia, provided the steps in article 2-1 are adhered to.

2-3 If a minor is aged between 16 and 18 a request for euthanasia can only be done after consultation with the patient's parent(s) or legal guardian(s). The steps in article 2-1 must be adhered to.

2-4 In case a minor is aged between 12 and 16 a euthanasia can only be performed with permission of the patient's parent(s) or legal guardian(s). The steps in article 2-1 must be adhered to.


http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR001241...2#HoofdstukIII_Paragraaf1_Artikel3
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DocLightning
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Which is the party and candidate most likely to reduce federal spending overall and close the budget gap?

Historically, the Democrats, actually. Odd, no?
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Mir
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
This is why I could never support Santorum in the Primary (although I would still of course vote for him against Obama - a monkey could do a better job than the current president).

Be careful what you wish for - you just might get a monkey.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Which is the party and candidate most likely to reduce federal spending overall and close the budget gap? That should be the ONLY question on everyone's mind.

I don't trust Santorum to do that. The man is perfectly willing to expand the government in order to impose his social will on the country.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
By the way, it seems that Santorum actually has some facts to back him up on this Dutch euthanasia issue.

You quoted two websites with clear anti-euthanasia biases there. The first cites sources that cannot be checked, and the second doesn't cite any sources other than to say that the number of assisted deaths has risen, which could be due to any number of factors other than doctors trying to kill off the elderly.

It's entirely possible that Santorum got his ideas from sites like these, but they can hardly be considered facts.

-Mir
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cargolex
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
By the way, it seems that Santorum actually has some facts to back him up on this Dutch euthanasia issue.

No he doesn't, and neither do you.

Stop supporting what is plainly preposterous. It's undignified and it undermines every other argument you make. You've got two references there with all the credibility of Jerry Falwell or Anita Bryant, one of which doesn't do anything but distort decades-old articles and the other of which actually provides no references at all to where the "facts" were obtained. The only thing that needs euthanasia here is the pathetic attempt to prop up Santorum's honestly outrageous lying. He makes Americans look foolish to the outside world, I don't think he needs your help to do it.

[Edited 2012-02-20 09:30:08]
 
NoUFO
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 42):
the second doesn't cite any sources other than to say that the number of assisted deaths has risen, which could be due to any number of factors other than doctors trying to kill off the elderly

Such as an aging society ...
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ssteve
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Which is the party and candidate most likely to reduce federal spending overall and close the budget gap?

From my perspective, the GOP's avowed concern about the deficit doesn't actually translate into doing much of anything about it. Hard for that to be counted in their column this century.
 
victrola
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
still can't believe people saw John Huntsman's ability to speak Chinese as something bad. He was the ambassador to the country - of course he's going to speak the language, otherwise he'd be crap at his job!


If you think that's bad, Mitt Romney speaks French! This is unforgivable in the eyes of today's Republicans.
 
Derico
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:33 pm

I don't have any quarrels with the belief system of politicians, whether I agree or not, as long as they abide by the democratic process. My only problem with United States politicians is that they seem to believe they enjoy a special priviledge to issue commentary on the ways of rest of the world, almost universally in order to deride, and never to praise. And that trend has increased dramatically recently.

They make use of Europe as a punching bag in terms of cultural matters, and blame them for social trends they cannot stop. They blame Asia in terms of "protectionism" and their lack of competitiveness; they blame Latin America for their drug problems. And obviously, make the Arab world and Iran fully culpable for the terrorist threat. It's everyone's fault but the USA all the time, basically. I watched one of the opposition debates, and I have listened to Obama in a couple of speeches. It's almost always someone else to blame for the ills of their country.

That to me signals a severe lack of identity with Americans. They don't know what they are at this point, and where they want to go. Thus they (and by extension politicians, in order to tell their constituencies what they want to hear), either fall back on excessive patriotism bordering on jingoism, or on blaming the rest of the world for economic issues and resorting to populist, big government to the rescue rhetoric.

Sorry if this sounds blunt, but its just how I see it.
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Ken777
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 3):
And you realize this is the Republican candidate who is currently leading in the polls?

Leading this week.

The frightening part is that he is no better nor worse than any of the other contenders for the GOP Nomination.

Unless the GOP is able to come up with someone else they will be stuck with one of those four.

And let's face it, Bush doesn't want to run and (regardless of how good he might be) he would have to run as Bush III. Bubba's Brother.

Christi can stir up the GOP, but the guy is simply too fat - a sign a lack of self control. Not a good sign for a President, especially on the health side.

But, hey, Palin is waiting in the wings in case the Convention can't decide.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 4):
Regardless, all he's doing here is pandering for the older vote, IMO.

Problem here is that if elected he will be a far greater risk to the elderly than any Democrat. Both Social Security and Medicare would be in his sights. Maybe euthanasia would be one of his approaches to reduce costs of old folks.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
(although I would still of course vote for him against Obama - a monkey could do a better job than the current president).

Especially a white monkey?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Which is the party and candidate most likely to reduce federal spending overall and close the budget gap?

Look around at GOP Presidents in our lifetime. Ike had a 90%top tax rate and didn't hesitate to spend money. Reagan spend a lot in a military buildup. Bush I spend a nice chunk on his Middle East war - no matter how justified it was.

Then we have Bubba, with his Ego War, guns & Butter & Cake economy and (for the cherry on top) the Great Recession.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 33):
I would suggest that using the word monkey and as a put down of our current President who is of African heritage (born in the USA) is bordering on racist and definitely inappropriate.

This has been normal ever since President Obama announced that he was running for President. We've seen the term "monkey" since then, the term "Obammy", all sorts of comments and code words. It is racist and excuses or defenses are always pretty thin.

Sad reality is that some people will never accept people of any color as being "as good as them". An unreasonable belief that being white automatically makes you superior to "others".

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):
Obviously - the GOP is beating each other up and Obama is hardly getting any attention.

But the Democrat Party (and their Super PACS) are collecting all the bashing for use in the general election. Whoever runs against President Obama will be well defined by their current competition.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Rick Santorum On The Netherlands And Euthanasia

Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:45 pm

I'm glad Rick Santorum brought this issue up, I've experienced it first hand.

I broke my clavicle a few years ago during a bike crash. I also got a light concussion. It wasn't pretty. The real trouble started, however, when I made it to a local hospital.

When I walked into the emergency room, the door was locked behind me. Hospital staff rushed at me from all directions! Several doctors were coming at me with big needles, just trying to give me that lethal injection. I told them I didn't want to die, but they didn't listen! They were screaming it was necessary for budget reasons! I had to fight my way out of the emergency room. I fled to a hospital in Germany where I was treated without having to fear for me life.

I now try to live my life, day by day, but often find myself waking up in the middle of the night with nightmares about that day. Never again, will I set foot in a Dutch hospital.

Involuntary euthanasia is the biggest threat for any injured, old, jobless or homeless Dutch person. Thank you rick Santorum, for fighting against these continuing crimes against humanity!

Martijn
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