User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 6085
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:23 pm

OK so we have a thread on whether people believe in God. Well how about if you believe in Hell? Some religions do not have a "hell", many others do. What is hell to you? I most certainly do not believe in hell.

How about Heaven? Is there a place that everyone goes to after death or is there nothing? if there is a heaven is it a big place where everyone "lives" once they die? Gotta say that sounds a little weird to me.

I am agnostic as I really have no idea what comes next once you die. And I don't really worry what does, but as I said I don't believe in a fiery pit ruled over by some mean guy where you are tortured forever and ever.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
dc9northwest
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:33 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
OK so we have a thread on whether people believe in God. Well how about if you believe in Hell? Some religions do not have a "hell", many others do. What is hell to you? I most certainly do not believe in hell.

Hell... is in Michigan, right?

No, I don't believe in hell. It just makes no sense given the context of an all-loving God. I disbelieved in hell long before I disbelieved in God.

Hell is just a myth invented to scare people into doing what they're told.

Hell, to me, is Room 101.

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
I am agnostic as I really have no idea what comes next once you die

Probably nothing. Probably.

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
How about Heaven?

Angels playing harps? No, I don't believe in Heaven either.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:45 pm

Hell? It is hard to believe in it and know what it is, in my opinion, without the context of a God and the view that God sustains life. Hell may be a burning lake of sulfur (or not?), but the real grit of it is that you experience the full, unfiltered wrath of an all-powerful God. It's not a place where "bad" people go to do "bad" things - you don't sit around and gamble all day drinking with your bar buddies.

Heaven? I don't think it's a place where we all float on clouds playing harps. That sounds awful. Horrible. No, I think it is a "new", renewed earth, where all the sadness and pain of this world is gone. I think it will be a place where the beauty of this world is infinitely more grand and breathtaking than we have ever seen. I think its a place where your deepest desires will be fulfilled - whether those desires are something you long for now or whether our desires will be "re-aligned", I don't know. In my opinion it won't matter though, as your desires then are what counts - sort of like my sister, when younger, said she hoped she never liked salad, ever. I couldn't convince her that if she liked it, she really would like it and be happy she liked it because she would enjoy it. Back on topic, most importantly, there will be no sin and no evil in heaven. I doubt we won't have work to do, but the work we do will be enjoyable and fulfilling. We need purpose to live. What freaks me out though, is that supposedly this is never ending... goes on for all eternity, never stopping. Freaky.

At any rate, that's my opinion. It makes sense in the context of what I believe - if you don't believe what I believe, I'm sure I sound pretty wacky.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 1):
Hell is just a myth invented to scare people into doing what they're told.

Agreed.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 1):
Probably nothing. Probably.

I'm afraid you are correct. The human in me wishes my psyche/soul/consciousness/whateveryoucallit somehow continues to live on. But the scientist in me thinks just like it came out of nowhere, it's just going to disappear into oblivion eventually, meanwhile my body will just rot and turn into dirt and worm fodder over time.
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:51 pm

I was MARRIED for TWO F***ING YEARS! Hell would be like Club Med!

-Sam Kinison
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
dc9northwest
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:33 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
But the scientist in me thinks just like it came out of nowhere, it's just going to disappear into oblivion eventually, meanwhile my body will just rot and turn into dirt and worm fodder over time.

This thought is incredibly scary from a human perspective. That said, everything will come to an end... I will end, you will end, we'll all end... and the Universe will end. So even if our consciousness lives on... it will still die eventually. This is what convinced me oblivion follows this life. Maybe not immediately, but at a certain point, for sure.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:06 pm

Heaven is where the police are British, the lovers French, the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 2):
Hell may be a burning lake of sulfur (or not?), but the real grit of it is that you experience the full, unfiltered wrath of an all-powerful God.

I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

And yes, I believe in hell.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Heaven is where the police are British, the lovers French, the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.

Classic!   
(Real german police is quite decent, though.)


In my view heaven and hell are imaginary constructs maintained by some of the living to imgaine the beloved or hated deceased in for veneration or revenge.

When we die, we ourselves dissolve and vanish. Echoes of who we were and what we meant to others may linger in the memories of the living (see above), but the effects are only felt by them.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

Correct. Which I would argue is the full wrath of God, as he is withholding everything good from you. Two ways to say the same thing - I'd agree with how you put it as well.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
Classic!
(Real german police is quite decent, though.)

True.
....and there are no Macs in Heaven.   
Bring back the Concorde
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11858
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
How about Heaven?

"Is this heaven?"
"No, it's Iowa."

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
The human in me wishes my psyche/soul/consciousness/whateveryoucallit somehow continues to live on. But the scientist in me thinks just like it came out of nowhere, it's just going to disappear into oblivion eventually, meanwhile my body will just rot and turn into dirt and worm fodder over time.

  

I want very badly to believe there's something after death, and I think there might be. But the fact of the matter is that I don't know.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

Then I'm already living in hell!  
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
....and there are no Macs in Heaven.

Since heaven is entirely in your own mind anyway, you can populate yours with whatever technology you wish – I'm sure in yours they use analog slide rules, if they have any formal administration at all. I'm sure the music is groovy, though! 
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
I'm sure the music is groovy, though!

...And the women curvy and hairy in their naughty bits. 
 
danielmyatt
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:24 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Hell is where the chefs are British

We'll have less of that please. Us British chefs are a proud and noble people... END CHEFISM NOW!
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:16 pm

I honestly believe that human beings are quite capable of creating their own hell. The things we do follow us. Heaven for me means spiritual growth beyond the body, but it is hard to imagine what it's like as we would not necessarily have the same senses.

Although it doesn't necessarily happen in all cases, people who have been dead and have come back to life in many cases recount a feeling of peace and love, in some cases being met by Jesus or God or a being of light. I don't know if there is simply a Heaven or a higher spiritual level (one step among many), leaving this particular world and its limitations behind. What we do in this life will make us capable of ascending to that level or not. I think that being trapped by guilt, knowing that you were scum and spent your life doing wrong would be enough of a hell right there. I don't see a need for flames or lakes of sulfur.

As far as eternity, I don't know if that means what we usually think it means or rather the absence of time as a limit or reference to our lives.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Neither.... I am alive now ...one day, hopefully not for a while, I will die.

Where will I go when I die?... to the same place the light goes when a lightbulb blows.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
in yours they use analog slide rules, if they have any formal administration at all. I'm sure the music is groovy,
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13):
...And the women curvy and hairy in their naughty bits.

Well of course.  
Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 14):
We'll have less of that please. Us British chefs are a proud and noble people... END CHEFISM NOW!

It's just an old joke that I cut & paste. British food is pretty good, including spotted dick....
Bring back the Concorde
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 1):
Hell is just a myth invented to scare people into doing what they're told.

"I'm coming to get you!" Rambo2



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Heaven is where the police are British, the lovers French, the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.


That's it!That's Heaven and Hell.I know.I'm of Italian descent.We're good messier uppers.You should see my house! Well,maybe you don't.

But I strongly believe in existence of both.And the rock band isn't bad either.R.I.P.

[Edited 2012-02-22 13:06:21]
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
GBLKD
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:02 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting 757gb (Reply 15):
Although it doesn't necessarily happen in all cases, people who have been dead and have come back to life in many cases recount a feeling of peace and love, in some cases being met by Jesus or God or a being of light.

Lack of oxygen to the brain will make you hallucinate. Hypoxia will give the same results. It comes from what you have learned or been taught or chosen to believe in. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting GBLKD (Reply 19):
Lack of oxygen to the brain will make you hallucinate. Hypoxia will give the same results. It comes from what you have learned or been taught or chosen to believe in. Nothing more, nothing less

That's a possible explanation, but how can you be sure that's it?
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
GBLKD
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:02 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting 757gb (Reply 20):
That's a possible explanation, but how can you be sure that's it?

I can be about as sure as you are that Jesus is leading you into heaven  

Sorry fella but I'm one of the ones you won't convince about God/Jesus/heaven/hell. I believe that it's nothing more than the effects of oxygen depravation.

A very good friend of mine is a Jehovas Witness, we've had quite in depth face to face theological discussions and we now just agree to disagree.
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:04 pm

Quoting GBLKD (Reply 21):
Sorry fella but I'm one of the ones you won't convince about God/Jesus/heaven/hell.

Nor would I try. I'm only sharing what I think/believe in answer to the OP's questions.
I mentioned the experiences of those who have died and come back because I think they point to something, but I keep an open mind about it (never made an affirmation that it proved anything).

Your statement (or at least the way I read it) did not allow for any other possibilities beyond oxygen deprivation. That's what made me ask you how you could be so sure. I'm not here to convince anyone. We all find our own answers sooner or later.

BTW: the best discussions I've had about religion were with a Jehova Witness. We did it from a base of mutual respect and neither convinced the other of course, but it was great.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 2):
Hell? It is hard to believe in it and know what it is, in my opinion, without the context of a God and the view that God sustains life. Hell may be a burning lake of sulfur (or not?), but the real grit of it is that you experience the full, unfiltered wrath of an all-powerful God.

I believe in an after-life, but I don't believe in the classic scenarios of Heaven and Hell. Those images were created long ago in a time when most people were illiterate and everything that was described was done so metaphorically. So for an uneducated, illiterate peasant, which most of the populace was, to understand that Hell was a bad place they were given metaphorical stories of a place where a person suffered in the midst of flames. Why? Because fire, or burning, is one of the most painful traumas that can occur to the human body. Fire is destructive. Imagine if you were told you were going to a place with unending destruction and sheer pain caused by flames, how that would scare you. Heaven was a construct of someone trying to convey the thought of being in a place where life has no wants or desires; if you float among the clouds you exist above Earthly sins.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

  

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Heaven is where the police are British, the lovers French, the mechanics German, the chefs Italian, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the lovers Swiss, the police German, and it is all organized by the Italians.

That is a classic!!! Too funny! I'm saving this for future use. Thanks!
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:30 pm

I believe in both.

A couple of weeks ago, one of the residents I give care to at work told me that I'm going to Heaven because I am very nice.

Good to know.  
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting GBLKD (Reply 19):

Lack of oxygen to the brain will make you hallucinate. Hypoxia will give the same results. It comes from what you have learned or been taught or chosen to believe in. Nothing more, nothing less.

        

Quoting 757gb (Reply 20):
That's a possible explanation, but how can you be sure that's it?

Because thousands if not millions of people have experienced it under controlled conditions. Myself included. I did explosive decompression training where they simulate an airplane decompression in a special high altitude chamber. Long story short, the first thing to go right before you faint is your vision. That whole "light at the end of the tunnel" is a very ridiculously glorified account of that happening. If taken too far, next in line to go would be your hearing. By now your brain is getting less than 80% of the required oxygen. Anything below that and you start to get very weird things happening, and eventually brain damage and or death. That being said hypoxia affects everyone differently. But you will find common themes amongst all hypoxia occurrences.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 24):


A couple of weeks ago, one of the residents I give care to at work told me that I'm going to Heaven because I am very nice.

Don't get your hopes up   
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4708
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:45 pm

Hell is a place where cool people will go when they die because they lived life to the fullest without being held back.

Heaven?...what is heaven anyway? A large choir? Butt naked babies with harps? Me with a toga "watching over somebody else"? Do I really want eternal life? What is the concept of eternal life? Even if I had no need for anything while in heaven, would I be willing to spend eternity doing the same stuff over and over again?

Sorry, but to me there is no heaven or hell and if it does exist, it's not the same one depicted in Hollywood and your local church. I would much rather prefer to think that we are reborn as humans either on the same universe or in an alternate universe, either with the same traits or with different ones, either in the US or China or Russia, etc.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
dc9northwest
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:33 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
Because thousands if not millions of people have experienced it under controlled conditions. Myself included. I did explosive decompression training where they simulate an airplane decompression in a special high altitude chamber. Long story short, the first thing to go right before you faint is your vision. That whole "light at the end of the tunnel" is a very ridiculously glorified account of that happening. If taken too far, next in line to go would be your hearing. By now your brain is getting less than 80% of the required oxygen. Anything below that and you start to get very weird things happening, and eventually brain damage and or death. That being said hypoxia affects everyone differently. But you will find common themes amongst all hypoxia occurrences.

When I was up on Pikes Peak, which is 14,000 feet high I think, I started to get a mild case of tunnel vision as well.

There's always the (fun) "theory" that the brain produces massive amounts of DMT when you die but that has yet to be proven... But still, a nice DMT trip would be a good way to have your life end, I guess, all things considered.
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
Because thousands if not millions of people have experienced it under controlled conditions. Myself included.

Again, that's a possible explanation, but are you going to explain ALL the accounts of people who have died and come back as lack of oxygen? I've had a chance to hear stories first hand and from the context it simply doesn't fit.

But even more important: if I can maintain an open mind and say that lack of oxygen is a possible explanation (I'm not convinced, but still) how come others have to come back with such sweeping statements, absolutely denying that some of these people may have indeed experienced something extraordinary? How can you have a reasonable exchange of ideas if the starting point is that what these people are saying is simply a "ridiculously glorified account" of hypoxia?
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 6085
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting 757gb (Reply 28):
But even more important: if I can maintain an open mind and say that lack of oxygen is a possible explanation (I'm not convinced, but still) how come others have to come back with such sweeping statements, absolutely denying that some of these people may have indeed experienced something extraordinary? How can you have a reasonable exchange of ideas if the starting point is that what these people are saying is simply a "ridiculously glorified account" of hypoxia?

I am going to guess that it is mostly becasue "science" is a bitch, and an unforgiving bitch at that. If one relies on science (and I am one that does for the most part) then one follows these rules:

1. Observe some aspect of the universe.
2. Invent a tentative description, called a hypothesis, that is consistent with what you have observed.
3. Use the hypothesis to make predictions.
4. Test those predictions by experiments or further observations and modify the hypothesis in the light of your results.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until there are no discrepancies between theory and experiment and/or observation.

And that does not really allow for an easy discussion with someone who relies of faith rather than observation. That does not mean someone with faith is "wrong" or anything like that (well except to someone who as I mentioned, relies on science and observation exclusively) but the rules are just very different.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 29):
And that does not really allow for an easy discussion with someone who relies of faith rather than observation. That does not mean someone with faith is "wrong" or anything like that (well except to someone who as I mentioned, relies on science and observation exclusively) but the rules are just very different.

You made your point very well, and confronting pure faith with pure science in a discussion is just a train wreck IMO.
I do have to point out however that I'm not approaching the question purely from a perspective of faith (although I have talked about faith enough to bore quite a few people I know). I actually tend to be very analytic when approaching something that I don't know, and like to think outside the box, look at things from different angles. It has served me very well in many areas.

My approach here is not trying to explain things from faith, but rather to suggest that there is something out there that we don't understand. With time science might be able to study, measure and create a valid hypothesis on things that defy our understanding. I'm not bringing an account and saying that it proves my point of view. My whole point is that we don't know enough to explain all of those things yet.

Putting this on the perspective of the method you outlined, what happens when repetition of steps 3 and 4 don't produce results consistent enough to prove the hypothesis, which ends up explaining only part of what's being observed?

That's when in my opinion you have to revise your hypothesis, and I guess the uncomfortable part comes when we cannot find a valid hypothesis to explain it all. It is at THAT POINT that I believe the mind has to be open. Another route is denial, which is the fault that I find sometimes in people when they can't explain something completely and are not comfortable with not understanding it all, maybe because it threatens long held beliefs.

I guess in my "method" if you will my starting point is that I DON'T KNOW. From there I can seek knowledge but always with an open mind, because in many cases such as this there is no single answer that explains everything. Given that approach I'm bound to reject absolute sweeping statements.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 1797
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):

I think a better description of hell is ... ..., but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

Sign me up! Pretty tough to get away from the fan club as it is...
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
smittyone
Posts: 1336
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:55 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:04 am

I don't really believe in Heaven, but Heaven for me would be finally getting the answers to ALL of the questions - how the universe came to be, where's Jimmy Hoffa, was there a second gunman on the Grassy Knoll etc.

And I'd like to go back and review some of the high points of my life - a young, optimistic SmittyOne diving to tag somebody out at home plate in T-ball, traveling around the Caribbean on a ship, the first date with my wife, daughter's first steps etc. Good times.
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 32):

Sounds very meaningful... hope you get it.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting 757gb (Reply 28):
how come others have to come back with such sweeping statements, absolutely denying that some of these people may have indeed experienced something extraordinary?

Because the vast majority of people are easily impressionable, especially if they've never felt anything of the sort before, and if they are especially religious or superstitious to begin with.

Numerous studies have been done on the matter. A quick google search on "near death experiences" will bring up hundreds of them (but along with thousands more of wacky NDE websites)

Here's but just one:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-experiences-blood-carbon-dioxide/
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 34):

Interesting article, thanks for sharing. This article doesn't seem conclusive but I admit I need to do more reading on the studies done. I seriously doubt that all NDEs can be explained through the studies, though it is very likely that some can be. Something not too easy to explain are accounts of people without any beliefs or any knowledge who were completely surprised by what happened to them. I know a case like that. Very precise and verified descriptions of what the doctors were doing as seen from the outside are also very hard to explain.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:47 am

If you are a follower of the Abrahamic religions it is necessary to believe in Hell. The details of how you get to enter one or the other vary with some claiming faith and/or works, others predestination or election. Christ referred to Hell many times and made it clear that those who did not believe in God would find their way there. Of course the choice is not presented simply as God saying believe me or else I will send you: it is presented as a choice each individual makes.

But what can we definitely say?

Not sure if it is still there but Heaven used to be located under the arches at Charing Cross Station in London. At one time it was owned by Richard Branson's Virgin Group, which is rather ironic.

Hell is located at 63°26′40″N 10°55′21″E. If I am not mistaken, the current Norwegian word for hell is helvete, close enough to the word Helvetia for me to believe it might be somewhere in the Swiss Cantons. Helvetia is the female personification of Switzerland and they do say, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" 

[Edited 2012-02-22 22:54:05]
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:36 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

That's called life.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 36):
If you are a follower of the Abrahamic religions it is necessary to believe in Hell.

I don't know about that. I was Catholic until around 18, and nobody ever talked about hell. The message seemed to be that doing bad stuff in your life and living the consequences, guilt etc. is "hell".
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
757gb
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 37):
I don't know about that. I was Catholic until around 18, and nobody ever talked about hell. The message seemed to be that doing bad stuff in your life and living the consequences, guilt etc. is "hell".

That's the impression I got as well. It's easier sometimes to classify people in categories or labels (I'm not saying that it's done with bad intentions). I do find a very high number of people who were brought up within a particular religion such as Catholicism (it's my case as well) but with time they have not been bound to all practices and beliefs. So what you will find is people who have Catholic roots (or any other) which determines a great deal of what they believe, but they no longer feel that they fully belong to that religion because they have developed their own beliefs that no longer fit exactly. That doesn't make them less religious in my opinion. I really think that a personal relationship with God is a necessity. But believing in hell or heaven in the way it was originally taught to them doesn't seem to be a necessity.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 26):
Hell is a place where cool people will go when they die because they lived life to the fullest without being held back.

Yes, because cool people need to warmed up but seriously they will have ONE regret.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 36):
the current Norwegian word for hell is helvete

There is a Hell, Norway
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:10 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 39):
There is a Hell, Norway

Yes, I even posted the map co-ordinates.  
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 1828
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:55 am

No.

Heaven and hell are human constructs. They were created many years ago to control the populace.

The truth is: 'Heaven' and 'hell' are ON EARTH. You are LIVING your heaven and hell. It is a combination of being born into it and creating it yourself. E.g. someone born into a family making $1 a day can be n heaven, and someone born an automatic millionaire can be in hell. Just depending on what they do with their life, good fortune, and accepting what is...not always what you want existence to be.

There is no heaven or hell.

When you die, there is just absence. Like space. Absence.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4708
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:44 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 39):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 26):
Hell is a place where cool people will go when they die because they lived life to the fullest without being held back.

Yes, because cool people need to warmed up but seriously they will have ONE regret.

It's called sarcasm. Guess I should have added a smiley. If I don't believe in a heaven, why should I believe in the opposite?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
GIANCAVIA
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:12 pm

No Heaven, No Hell, No God.. No Religion.. Just let me eat pizza until I die, If anything comes after that I will go through what billions of other people have done before me and I shall worry about it then if at all.
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1154
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 41):
The truth is

Funny how most people who believe in heaven or hell stated that their opinion is their opinion. You, however, make a statement with ultimate authority.

And who gets the crap for "ramming beliefs down people's throats"?
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
AF1624
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:57 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
I think a better description of hell is not a place where you experience the wrath of God, but rather the absolute non-presence of God.

Must be an awesome place then.
Cheers
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting af1624 (Reply 45):
Must be an awesome place then.

I see what you did there 
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3552
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 43):
I shall worry about it then if at all.

If you have never accepted Jesus, then G-d only cares about your sin AFTER you die.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
GIANCAVIA
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 47):

If you have never accepted Jesus, then G-d only cares about your sin AFTER you die.

I could never accept the drama or hypocrisy that is "religion" "gods" or any other made up story used to control people. However if it ever did end up that I was wrong Id be expecting this "god" to apologise to me for all the sins he has committed throughout history and during my lifetime.. Treating us all as pets and puppets for his amusement? Like I mentioned in the other thread. What a lowsy character.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 1828
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Do You Believe In Hell (or Heaven)?

Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:34 am

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 44):
Funny how most people who believe in heaven or hell stated that their opinion is their opinion. You, however, make a statement with ultimate authority.

And who gets the crap for "ramming beliefs down people's throats"?

Funny how some people on A.net try to bait responses and insinuate things.

Dude. If a post comes under my username it should be automatically assumed that it is my opinion. I am no man's god. If they believe I am, then they better kneel down and s*** m* king kong d*** 24/7 until I *** 6-7 times a day.

I love Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, and Muslims, etc. I just don't believe in organized religion or constructs like 'heaven' or 'hell'.

I don't ram anything down anyone's throat. And I am an agnostic actually, not an atheist.

But if all of you sheep want to believe in Jesus, Mary, and Joseph cool with me. Worship that idol. If you believe in hat s*** then you better worship that s*** nonstop. They probably all existed, and probably were all cool peeps. I prob would have been friends with them.

I am the ultimate authority. Of my life. And my beliefs.
oh boy, here we go!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, bgm and 12 guests