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stasisLAX
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GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:28 am

GM had stopped Chevrolet Volt production in December as part of a "holiday vacation" shut-down - a vacation that lasted until today. GM's Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant is back online and producing Volts. GM sold 7,700 Volts in 2011 - well below its stated goal of 10,000 units. The massive press coverage of Volt post-crash fires was part of this shortfall. Furthermore, GM has backed away from its goal of selling 45,000 Volts in 2012 - saying now that they will produce whatever the market will absorb - or likely much less than 45,000 units.

Chevrolet has made engineering changes to the Volt, which make the new-build Volts "Ultra low-emission vehicles and therefore eligibile to use California's carpool lanes. "The Volts with the low emissions package are certain to be a strong draw for California commuters looking to travel the state's notoriously congested freeways in the carpool lane," Chris Perry, a Chevrolet Marketing executive was quoted in the press.

Commuters who use the freeway carpool lanes in Southern California save an average of 36 minutes a day, or about a third of their total driving time.(Except on Interstate 5, where the carpool lane is as much of a parking lot as any other lane, at least from my unfortunate experiences) In addition, California buyers will also received a $1500 USD rebate from the state - above and beyond the $7500 federal tax credit. GM clearly sees California as the primary market for the $40,000 sticker priced Volt, and is offering no-down payment (relatively) cheap leases ($369 bucks a month!) for California buyers.

Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article/print/294531
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mercure1
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:34 am

Waste of a car imo, and if not for Obama and US government wishing so hard to push half baked technologies it would be dead long time ago.
 
mham001
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
a vacation that lasted until today.

Reading comprehension is your friend, nowhere does your article even mention the word production. Production actually started back up almost 3 weeks ago.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:56 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):
and if not for Obama and US government wishing so hard to push half baked technologies it would be dead long time ago.

You are wrong on that. First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt. It was an exercise by GM from before hos administration and before their bankruptcy. And as for the US government's involvement, yes there is some in that there are incentives, tax breaks, rebates etc. that the government offers to get things started with certain technologies (not much different from tax breaks for oil drilling etc. to encourage that kind of investment and activities) but otherwise the government is not really directly involved.

I am very glad to see it moving along again. I do hope that it continues and leads to more and lower cost vehicles in the future. We'll see.

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stasisLAX
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:15 am

[quote=mham001,reply=2]Reading comprehension is your friend, nowhere does your article even mention the word production. Production actually started back up almost 3 weeks ago.

Thank you for pointing out my failure - February 6th is when GM restarted Volt production. My apologies for the error.

Source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...AID=/20120223/OEM05/120229953/1448

  

And the General Motors press release on the California PZEV certification:

Source: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chev...ages/news/us/en/2012/Feb/0222_volt

[Edited 2012-02-23 21:18:23]
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mercure1
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
You are wrong on that. First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt.

Sure he did -

A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:47 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):

Chevrolet has made engineering changes to the Volt, which make the new-build Volts "Ultra low-emission vehicles and therefore eligibile to use California's carpool lanes.

Funny how a "Green car" couldn't even meet ULEV standards to begin with.  
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:31 pm

It's a rough crowd here in non-av. We have a lot of posts about how stagnant the US auto industry is, yet when they try they get no love from us.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt. It was an exercise by GM from before hos administration and before their bankruptcy.

Indeed. I remember interviews with GM execs at the time saying they had to do something to show they could innovate with the world's best. To be honest, I find the result very disappointing.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
I am very glad to see it moving along again. I do hope that it continues and leads to more and lower cost vehicles in the future.

I do, but it's far from a given.

My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range. Why the big difference? I know the Tesla costs a lot more, but what is that buying you? What is the range of the Nissan Leaf?

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.

It's ironic you were in Asia when you read that, given how the governments there do everything they can to give their industries a leg up.
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mham001
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.

If Time said it, it must be true, huh? But really, what does it matter to you to have such strong opinions?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
Indeed. I remember interviews with GM execs at the time saying they had to do something to show they could innovate with the world's best. To be honest, I find the result very disappointing.

All accounts by owners say it is a stellar car whose concept and technology is generally working flawlessly. I saw an owner last night claim he hadn't bought gas in 3000 miles. Owners also say it is not a bad drivers car either. Much more fun than the Prius.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range. Why the big difference? I know the Tesla costs a lot more, but what is that buying you? What is the range of the Nissan Leaf?

The Volt and the Leaf operate differently. The Volt has an ICE, the Tesla and Leaf are pure electric. The Volt has an electric-only range of 40 miles. The Leaf and Tesla both have much larger battery packs, giving them longer electric range. .
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
The Volt has an ICE, the Tesla and Leaf are pure electric. The Volt has an electric-only range of 40 miles. The Leaf and Tesla both have much larger battery packs, giving them longer electric range. .

Interesting.

I went off and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_leaf.

It seems the Leaf may be of interest in a few years when I am looking to replace my current car.

Just to toss out some red meat:

Quote:

Commercial US production is slated to begin in late 2012 at Nissan's manufacturing facility in Smyrna, Tennessee. This US plant will be modified with a US$1.4 billion loan granted by the US Department of Energy to allow the manufacturing plant to produce the Nissan Leaf and its advanced batteries. The retooled plant is expected to create 1,300 jobs.[108][109] The Smyrna plant is expected to produce up to 150,000 vehicles and 200,000 battery packs annually.[109]

The Leaf will also be produced at Nissan's plant in Sunderland, England, beginning in 2013.[110] Nissan will benefit from a GB£20.7 million grant from the British government and up to GB£220 million from the European Investment Bank.[110][111] The plant will produce 60,000 lithium-ion batteries a year, and it also is expected to deliver 50,000 Leaf EVs a year.[110] Once production starts at the Sunderland plant, Nissan expects to reduce the Leaf price in the European market by 2013.

Bad Obama! Bad Cameron! How dare they? Drill, baby drill!  
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
If Time said it, it must be true, huh? But really, what does it matter to you to have such strong opinions?

 

Not my opinion, it came from mouth of executive in interview. If not for government pressure GM would rather have walked away from the extremely expensive project.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 10):
Not my opinion, it came from mouth of executive in interview. If not for government pressure GM would rather have walked away from the extremely expensive project.

And if GM built products that customers actually wanted to buy, they wouldn't have to be getting advice from the government, or from anyone else.

Romney is getting slagged in the Michigan primaries because he said in 2008 that the government should not have bailed out GM or Chrysler, and now he's back-pedaling, saying that "someone else" would have come along and bailed out GM and Chrysler. Say what, Willard? Not too many banks were willing to lend anything, never mind bail out money-losing automobile makers, and if you had any cajones, you'd stand by your original statement.

The bottom line is if we didn't have Government Motors, we'd have Bank of XXX Motors, or No Motors and an amazingly huge number of unemployed. GWB started the bailout, Obama continued it, and both parties backed it, so there's no political points to be made here.
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Superfly
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:44 pm

Considering the average income of the Volt buyer is $175,000 per year and adds $15,000 per vehicle sold to the national debt, we mine as well subsidies another money pit that is a 'hip' technology - the Boeing 2707 SST.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
$40,000 sticker priced Volt,

Far too expensive to ever catch on big time. You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car. Hopefully the price will come down as the technology matures, like electronics typically do (VCR, DVD, LCD TV, home computers, etc)

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Commuters who use the freeway carpool lanes in Southern California save an average of 36 minutes a day,

Wow, I wish the HOV lanes here in Seattle provided that much of a difference. Half the time they are as stop and go as the general purpose lanes.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
Far too expensive to ever catch on big time. You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car. Hopefully the price will come down as the technology matures, like electronics typically do (VCR, DVD, LCD TV, home computers, etc)

Clearly there's some "early adopter" peril to these cars, but I also have to wonder what avenues for improvement there are. We're not talking about cell phones here, we're talking about using batteries to drive electric motors, and short of room temperature (and above) superconductors I don't see any "silver bullet" coming along.

It's interesting how GM is having production shutdowns whereas Nissan is expanding production to the US and to Europe.

I have to wonder if GM would not have been better off partnering with Nissan on a pure electric car instead of making the hybrid Volt.
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GuitrThree
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:50 am

I was downtown Nashville today and there was a Volt parked in the area known as "The Gulch." The car displayed a US GOVERNMENT license plate.

Tag number?

EV-00001

Yep. The Obama Governments number one Volt.

Anyway.. here's a little video to enjoy about the Volt.

http://youtu.be/avLKiWi71cE
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 6):
Funny how a "Green car" couldn't even meet ULEV standards to begin with.

The petrol-powered motor in the Volt is the familiar 1.4 liter motor shared with the Chevrolet Sonic and Cruze - which is why the original Volt couldn't meet the ULEV standards. GM has "massaged" the onboard electronics on this gas motor so it now reaches the California standards.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
It's interesting how GM is having production shutdowns whereas Nissan is expanding production to the US and to Europe.
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors" and the massive amount of negative press that the Volt received from the NHTSA-crash tested Volt battery fires - although, to be honest, the NHTSA forgot to depower the damn batteries on the totalled Volts, like the damned owners manual told them too. Bureaucrats that don't read new legislation cannot be expected to read owners manuals now, can they?   

One other thing - don't compare the Nissan Leaf to the Chevy Volt. It's the old apples versus oranges thing.

The fact that the Leaf relies on battery power ONLY with no backup internal combustion engine/generator makes it a completely different animal when comparing its merits to the Volt for anything other than city/urban commuting duties. The new Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid features a similar combination of battery and gasoline power as the Volt, but its 15 mile electric only range is MUCH shorter than that of the Chevy.

[Edited 2012-02-24 21:37:52]
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GuitrThree
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors" and the massive amount of negative press that the Volt received from the NHTSA-crash tested Volt battery fires

The negative image these cars have are simply the fact that they cost $40,000+ and have a range of 40 miles on electric. Electric provided by a box you have to install in your house at a cost of $2,000-3,000. And on top of that, after the 40 miles, you get gas mileage not even equal to a Cobalt! Which basically is what this car is, a Cobalt with some fancy electronics.

Your IMHO is way off. Sorry but thats the fact. Left leaning people never listen to the right or tea partiers, so that right there will ensure that 30-40% of the buying public could care less what they think. And they still aren't buying them. The reason is simply that the technology is crap, expensive, and saves nothing. Plain and simple.
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt.

He doesn't seem to have much problem holding it up as a shining example of American achievement and the progressive nature of his administration.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
We have a lot of posts about how stagnant the US auto industry is, yet when they try they get no love from us.

When they try the results are still underwhelming.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range.

Yeah, but you can't brick a Volt. But then, carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
All accounts by owners say it is a stellar car whose concept and technology is generally working flawlessly.

Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
Much more fun than the Prius.

So are most golf carts. I wonder how the Volt measures up to the other midgets.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
And if GM built products that customers actually wanted to buy, they wouldn't have to be getting advice from the government, or from anyone else.

   They shouldn't even be sitting at the table right now.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car.

  

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO)

That negative public image has been caused by a steady stream of shitty products over the last few decades. It finally caught up with them and they were summarily given a pass.
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Superfly
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:23 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO)

  
The far-left has hated GM since Ralph Nader was peddling his book 'Unsafe At Any Speed' back in the 1960s. They always single out GM for making what they perceive as 'gas-guzzlers' for those un-educated people in Middle-America. They also consistently dwell on GM's part in the demise of the urban street cars in the 1950s.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

True but it makes the owner feel good about themselves. 
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task.

  
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors"

I think the reception of the Volt would be quite similar if it came from a company that didn't take a bailout such as Ford.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
One other thing - don't compare the Nissan Leaf to the Chevy Volt. It's the old apples versus oranges thing.

I think the target audience is the same: those who want to try alternative energy.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Yeah, but you can't brick a Volt.

Seems to me failing to plan ahead and have an adequate charge on the Leaf is akin to not planning ahead and putting gas into the Volt.

Sure, there can be cases where sh*t happens and you get caught out, but indeed that is one of the issues you agree to dealing with when you buy the car.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
But then, carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

That's my thinking right now. The electric has to be good enough to meet my daily mission requirements, and I'm not going to carry around a gas engine for when it does not.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task

It seems to me the state of technology is such that one would need to either own or rent a second car for long trips.

Personally it doesn't bother me that wealthier people are paying the price of being early adopters of the technology.

It usually does go that way, no?
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
Seems to me failing to plan ahead and have an adequate charge on the Leaf is akin to not planning ahead and putting gas into the Volt.

It isn't though, which is the huge problem. Apparently five Tesla Roadsters have been bricked, and when that happens the entire battery must be replaced at a cost of about $40,000. And when it happens, you can't just push the car like you could a car that runs out of gas, so even getting the car to the service center is an issue. A lot of the problem is Tesla's handling of the issue and not being clear about the implications of not charging the car, intentionally or otherwise, but I don't think I would like a car that's only a bump of an extension cord away from a major repair.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 18):
Your IMHO is way off. Sorry but thats the fact. Left leaning people never listen to the right or tea partiers, so that right there will ensure that 30-40% of the buying public could care less what they think. And they still aren't buying them. The reason is simply that the technology is crap, expensive, and saves nothing. Plain and simple.

You seem to mistake me as a protector or a fanboy for General Motors. I am not. If anything, I am a bigger supporter of Ford Motor Company, not GM. GM had an assembly plant in the town where my Dad was a school teacher for decades - which GM shut down. GM is FAR from a Christ-like entity - they are an for-profit corporation, with all the evils (and some positives) that come with being that.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
It isn't though, which is the huge problem. Apparently five Tesla Roadsters have been bricked, and when that happens the entire battery must be replaced at a cost of about $40,000. And when it happens, you can't just push the car like you could a car that runs out of gas, so even getting the car to the service center is an issue. A lot of the problem is Tesla's handling of the issue and not being clear about the implications of not charging the car, intentionally or otherwise, but I don't think I would like a car that's only a bump of an extension cord away from a major repair.

I wasn't aware of this issue. Seems to be incredibly poor engineering. The system needs to shut itself down before it can damage itself, and not restart till sufficiently recharged. Seems Tesla has a huge customer satisfaction and public image problem to solve.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
Considering the average income of the Volt buyer is $175,000 per year and adds $15,000 per vehicle sold to the national debt, we mine as well subsidies another money pit that is a 'hip' technology - the Boeing 2707 SST.


I am with you Superfly.
My calculations are that is worth at least $50,000.00 tax free investment income (more than the cost of the Volt) that some other poor working stiff is going to have to work a lot years of overtime and weekends to make up the tax loss.
The administration is selling it as somebody else's money paying for the Volt when in fact the average working stiff is the somebody else. Amazing what people will believe.

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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:24 am

Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors.

For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles. It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery hold 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.

The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.

16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.

$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.

Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 mpg.

$3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.

So Obama wants us to pay 3 times as much for a car that costs more that 7 time as much to run and takes 3 times as long to drive across country.


I'm not really surprised by this, and I'm sure not bothered by it either, because I had no immediate plans to buy a plug in car; Even if I did have, I wouldn't buy one from Government Motors.

BTW.........I did just buy Miss Arlie a Nissan Cube for Valentine's Day, and we both LOVE the thing; I got the idea to buy it just because she thought they were......"cute"; when I drove one of the things, I realized what a great little vehicle it is; easiest car I've ever had to get into and out of, greatest thing ever to cart home the groceries, and more damned "bells and whistles" than anything I've ever seen, PLUS, it was DIRT CHEAP ! (Can't beat a combo like that ! )

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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting geezer (Reply 26):
Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery.

I have a hard time believing Eric's math:

Quote:

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) officially rated the 2011 model year Volt's combined city/highway fuel economy in all-electric mode at 93 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (MPG-e) (2.5 L gasoline equivalent/100 km; 112 mpg-imp gasoline equivalent) and 94 MPG-e for the 2012 model year.[71] This rating considers a conversion factor of 33.7 kW-hr of electricity being the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline. The EPA rating in gasoline-only mode is 37 mpg-US (6.4 L/100 km; 44 mpg-imp). The overall combined city/highway gasoline-electricity fuel economy rating is 60 mpg-US (3.9 L/100 km; 72 mpg-imp) equivalent (MPG-e),[65][72] making the Volt the most fuel-efficient compact car sold in the United States since its introduction in December 2010.[3][4][73] For the 2012 model year, EPA revised the Volt's fuel economy ratings, increasing the combined city/highway rating in all-electric mode from 93 MPG-e to 94 MPG-e, and the highway rating was increased from 90 MPG-e to 93 MPG-e.[71]

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_vol
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
I have a hard time believing Eric's math:

I have a hard time with anybodies math ! I'm not very far into math;

But what difference does it make anyway ? Not much I'd say; there may be a lot of rich pea brains in then U.S. but there are not enough of them to ever buy enough Volts to make the damned thing pay for its self, much less make any money.

Face it.........Generous Motors has laid yet another big rotten egg !

Hey..........I wish they WOULD make money..........I know about a 10000 people who are trying to survive by working for these idiots ! I feel for them; but I can't quite "reach" them, because they work for a bunch of crazy people !

You ever been to GM's so-called "Proving Ground" up at Lodi ? I have......MANY times; it's a joke! They used to crash more damned cars faster than we could haul 'em up there ! Then we'd get angry phone calls........"hurry up, we're running out of units to crash" ! They don't think about "cars", they NEVER think about "automobiles", they only think about "units" ; as in, "Generous Motors, world's biggest unit company" (and dumbest I'd say ) Bring more units ! ( Ive been wondering how many Volts they've crashed ? ) They crash more damned cars than most companies MAKE for heavens sake; I think THEY think it makes them look "cool" ? (It makes them POOR is what it makes them)

It makes them look "stoopid" in my book ! (Yeah, "stoopid" with 2 "o's )

Charley
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting geezer (Reply 26):
For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery.

For some reason, his experience seems to be in direct conflict with people who own the car. Why do you think that is?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/143023646...ic-bolling-test-drives-chevy-volt/

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The Chevrolet Volt, General Motors' plug-in car, topped the rankings in the latest Consumer Reports customer satisfaction survey.

That clip sure points out how stupid some of those talking heads are....oh yea, you cannot outfit a Volt to $47k, they lied.

Quoting geezer (Reply 26):
According to General Motors, the Volt battery hold 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
Quoting geezer (Reply 26):
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.

16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.

Complete and utter nonsense.

First off, the battery only depletes ~half before the engine kicks in so you are only charging 8 kWh + maybe 2 kWh waste. With a 240 plug, just like the one behind your dryer or stove, charge time is 4 hours.

Second. Where do you pay $1.16/kWh? Exact location and electric company please. The national average is $.12/kWh. Even here in metro California I pay $.12/kWh baseline although in fairness, that is the price they charge until you actually use some but there are off-peak rates.. And just so you know, the typical electric car, as a rule, gets ~3 miles/kWh, or $.04/mile.

My gas here is $4.30/gal/ which puts the Volt running on gas, 35 mpg, at $.12/mile.

The disinformation swirling about this car is incredible.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:28 am

February 27 edition of Bloomberg has story about the poor economic case for consumers for alternative power vehicles.

Sales of such vehicles continue to slip in the US from 2.8 percent of total car sales in 2009, to 2.4 in 2010, and 2.2 in 2011.

Simply put the better mileage of things like hybrids cannot offset the average $6,000-10,000 technology premium over ever improved like sized conventional gasoline powered cars, while often also coming with significant operational short comings over their gas powered peers.

Story gives examples of how new cars like Ford Fiesta, Chevy Cruze, and Hyundai Elentra can achieve close to 40MPG on highways not too different than some alternative power vehicles. For the average US consumer driving 15,000 miles annually even with $5 gas the economics of conventional gas vehicle overcomes novelty of things like hybrids.

Some manufacturers like Honda now seem to feel the fuel economy gap is not great enough and that "it's not worth" pushing alternative technologies to the market at the moment as there is "not a case for the pocketbook" for the consumer to look away from internal combustion engines.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:44 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 29):
The disinformation swirling about this car is incredible.

Wow ! You sure you're not a volt salesman ? If you think volts are a great deal, it's perfectly O.K. with me if you go buy one; after you've had it a year or so, be sure to let us all know how much money it's "saved" you...........

If every rich "yuppie" in California wants to impress their neighbors with how "cool" they are and drive around in a mickey mouse car that you "plug in" at night, it's fine with me. Maybe it will help out with their big "noise pollution" problem they have out there ?

Charley
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
Romney is getting slagged in the Michigan primaries because he said in 2008 that the government should not have bailed out GM or Chrysler, and now he's back-pedaling, saying that "someone else" would have come along and bailed out GM and Chrysler. Say what, Willard? Not too many banks were willing to lend anything, never mind bail out money-losing automobile makers, and if you had any cajones, you'd stand by your original statement.

A foreign company would have swept up GM very quickly and kept itmaliv and kicking, albeit likely with a more efficient and, hopefully, union-less workforce. The bailout was and is a disaster.

If Chrysler wasn't bailed out and it went through normal bankruptcy procedures, you know what would have happened? Fiat, which was desperate for more low-cost labor (as grossly overpaid as American union auto workers are, it's peanuts compared to Western Europe) would have likely bought up its assets and Chrysler would probably be at the same place it is today, except without government money thrown away, and running with more efficient and productive workforce absent government stipulations.

Somebody would have snapped up GM in an instant.

The biggest problem with the bailout might not even be the billions needlessly wasted by the government; the biggest problem is that it gave the UAW, one of America's most destructive, corrupt and job killing organizations, a second lease on life.

America doesn't want an electric car. The market doesn't demand it, and the failure of the Volt proves it. And it's actual sales figures are even worse than it appears, because that ~7,700 includes sales to private and government fleets, an important sector for Volt sales, with GE alone committed to buying 25,000+ over the next two years.

There is certainly a growing niche for electric cars, as we are seeing with the Nissan Leaf, but it is not the governments responsibility to drive the market. Just like the hybrid market matured with little intervention, so will the electric car market. The saddest part is that every time a person buys a Volt, they also receive $7,500 from the government that they don't need, which can go towards things the government is supposed to spend money on.

[Edited 2012-02-29 02:32:09]
a.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
The bailout was and is a disaster.

Millions would disagree with you.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
If Chrysler wasn't bailed out and it went through normal bankruptcy procedures, you know what would have happened? Fiat, which was desperate for more low-cost labor (as grossly overpaid as American union auto workers are, it's peanuts compared to Western Europe) would have likely bought up its assets and Chrysler would probably be at the same place it is today, except without government money thrown away, and running with more efficient and productive workforce absent government stipulations.

You do realize the bailouts did involve restructuring i.e. closing plants and dealerships, and that workers took cuts in pay and benefits?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Somebody would have snapped up GM in an instant.

Name that "someone" willing to take on GM during the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
The biggest problem with the bailout might not even be the billions needlessly wasted by the government; the biggest problem is that it gave the UAW, one of America's most destructive, corrupt and job killing organizations, a second lease on life.

UAW isn't going anywhere, just like AA's unions aren't going anywhere.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
America doesn't want an electric car. The market doesn't demand it, and the failure of the Volt proves it.

Meanwhile, Nissan is building a new factory in Tennessee to build the Leaf.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
And it's actual sales figures are even worse than it appears, because that ~7,700 includes sales to private and government fleets, an important sector for Volt sales, with GE alone committed to buying 25,000+ over the next two years.

Right, and if I go to Hertz I won't find other cars in its class on the lot.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
There is certainly a growing niche for electric cars, as we are seeing with the Nissan Leaf, but it is not the governments responsibility to drive the market.

The Volt was started long before the bailout.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Just like the hybrid market matured with little intervention, so will the electric car market. The saddest part is that every time a person buys a Volt, they also receive $7,500 from the government that they don't need, which can go towards things the government is supposed to spend money on.

Little intervention? Japan leads the hybrid market because of tons of government intervention. Korea's coming on strong, China's investing heavily. Germany is leading the world in solar and wind energy via tons of government intervention. Meanwhile, we're spending more on defense then the rest of the world combined so we can take out our frustrations about our own stupidity on the rest of the world, and praising folks like Mitt Romney who make their millions by moving money around and in many cases screwing over their fellow man.
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
A foreign company would have swept up GM very quickly and kept itmaliv and kicking,

   Someone would have moved in and picked up the pieces.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Millions would disagree with you.

Millions are idiots.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
praising folks like Mitt Romney who make their millions by moving money around and in many cases screwing over their fellow man.

All these evil millionaires....God forbid someone work hard and make something of themselves. Nope, that's not the American way. The American way is waking up in the morning, leaving your moderately sized house with lunchpail in hand, and getting paid several times more than Chinese workers to screw together trivial consumer products. That's what America should be. Enough of that innovation crap...  
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):
Someone would have moved in and picked up the pieces.

Name the "someone" who was willing to do so.

They certainly didn't make themselves known to either the Bush or Obama administrations.

If the auto bailiout was some big Democrat/Labor conspiracy, why didn't neo-con GWB just refuse to bail out GM?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):
The American way is waking up in the morning, leaving your moderately sized house with lunchpail in hand, and getting paid several times more than Chinese workers to screw together trivial consumer products. That's what America should be.

Sounds a lot better than an America where the grandchildren of Mitt and his 1%er race car team owning buddies and their Caddy driving wives dine at the country club while the uneducated 99%ers dig through the dumpsters out back.

[Edited 2012-02-29 15:11:45]
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
Name the "someone" who was willing to do so

You know as well as I do that those things aren't in the public record, and they may not have come forward at all. But any idiot knows that there is plenty of GM that had significant value, and there are how many private equity funds? Other car makers? Middle Eastern or Asian investors? It is completely ridiculous to think that nobody would have picked up the pieces and that GM would have just disappeared into thin air. The useless parts would have died out and the valuable parts of the business would have continued on in new ownership.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
why didn't neo-con GWB just refuse to bail out GM?

He absolutely should have refused. And, by the way, neocons are not actually conservative. In fact just the opposite.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
Thanks for your contribution to the dialog...

That's the problem with America: too many idiots.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:27 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
You know as well as I do that those things aren't in the public record, and they may not have come forward at all.

Come now. GM was in crisis for several months before the first GWB bailout. If there was a deal on the table, and they feel the government ignored them, why not sue? Why not tell the press? Answer: there was none!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
But any idiot knows that there is plenty of GM that had significant value, and there are how many private equity funds?

That significant value meant that no one could come up with the significant amount of money nor would they be comfortable with the risk.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
It is completely ridiculous to think that nobody would have picked up the pieces and that GM would have just disappeared into thin air.

It's completely ridiculous to keep insisting that "someone" would have come along to bail out GM without being able to give a single person or entity that was in a plausible position to do so. GWB couldn't find one. BHO couldn't find one.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
The useless parts would have died out and the valuable parts of the business would have continued on in new ownership.

Volt not withstanding, that is what's happening, and the results are beginning to show improvement.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
why didn't neo-con GWB just refuse to bail out GM?

He absolutely should have refused.

Good, hopefully you and others now see how it is not some sort of Democrat thing. Politicians of both parties looked at what a GM collapse would do to the extremely fragile situation and decided the bailout was the thing to do.
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
It's completely ridiculous to keep insisting that "someone" would have come along to bail out GM without being able to give a single person or entity that was in a plausible position to do so.

It wouldn't have been a bailout. GM would have had to go out of business and into liquidation. That's when people could have started carving up the carcass and getting the good bits. Nobody was going to come in and grab the whole mess.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
Politicians of both parties looked at what a GM collapse would do to the extremely fragile situation and decided the bailout was the thing to do.

And every last one of them was wrong.

And here's another thing. If you own shares of Ford, or Toyota, or Honda, or any other car company, the government screwed you over. They bent you over a barrel and let you have it.

The government flat out decided to rig the game. They walked around the table and slipped a couple aces to the other guy. They decided that the interests of one group of people is more important than the interests of another. There are too many clowns in America applauding the bailout for helping people while so many others got blatantly ripped off. Americans having to watch their government use their own money to torpedo their interests. The entire affair is sordid and ridiculous.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
And every last one of them was wrong.

Do you think the same about the bank bailouts too?

The reason I ask is that I'm wondering whether it's the principle you disagree with, or the outcome? If the latter I think it's far too early to say. If the former, doesn't it imply you think the banks should have been allowed to collapse too?
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:46 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 39):
Do you think the same about the bank bailouts too?

Yes. They should have gone down. It would have sucked for the economy, but that's what should have happened.

What's done is done, but the government needs to put all business on notice that there will be no bailouts.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 40):
Yes. They should have gone down. It would have sucked for the economy, but that's what should have happened.

What's done is done, but the government needs to put all business on notice that there will be no bailouts.

Agreed. At the time I thought they were necessary, but Iceland seems to be doing OK right now after letting its banks fail.

(Mind you I am no economist).
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
America doesn't want an electric car. The market doesn't demand it, and the failure of the Volt proves it.

No. America IMO would be interested in an useful electric car, even in an useful serial plug in hybrid. But the Volt is neither. It looks like technology to build such a car just isn't there yet. Just look at the drivetrain. For some reason (Motortrend says because of the electric motor's efficiency - BS) it has a 2 speed transmission. I'd say the reason for the 2 speed transmission is that the currently available battery packs are just unable to supply the necessary current. The same transmission is used to connect the engine directly to the wheels - meaning the Volt is not a serial hybrid. Basically it's just another plug-in hybrid. A very expensive one. And since the current Prius is way cheaper and has the plug-in capability too, the Volt is in very bad situation. Give the Prius a bigger battery and the Volt is done. Completely.
Another thing I will never understand is the engine choice for the Volt. Use the Z14XEP (first released in 2003) in a new built technology demonstrator? C'mon GM, you can't be serious.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
Politicians of both parties looked at what a GM collapse would do to the extremely fragile situation and decided the bailout was the thing to do.

And every last one of them was wrong.

Every President within living memory, and any of the current electable candidates, would have bailed out GM in the same situation, and that includes Mitt Romney, despite what his OpEd piece said. None would have taken the risk of GM going down during the peak of the GFC and creating millions more unemployed and countless more foreclosed homes and millions of incredibly pissed off voters. So, feel free to say it was wrong on an ideological basis for whatever that is worth, but this was one situation where ideology loses to reality 100% of the time.
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BMI727
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 43):
Every President within living memory, and any of the current electable candidates, would have bailed out GM in the same situation,

I think Reagan might have let it go. He had no problem pushing the big red button. But any president that would have bailed them out would have been wrong.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 43):
None would have taken the risk of GM going down during the peak of the GFC and creating millions more unemployed and countless more foreclosed homes and millions of incredibly pissed off voters.

That's what has to happen. The weak have to fall so stronger entities can take their place.

And maybe you should go ask somebody who works for Ford or Toyota. The government basically looked them in the eye and said that somebody else's job is more important than their job. And for the government to be playing favorites like that is indefensible.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:52 pm

Whoops.

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportat...m-halting-production-of-chevy-volt

Production of the Volt is now being stopped. Layoffs as well.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexamin...ing-1300-due-low-volt-sales/406771

And Government Motors blames the media....awesome. Just another page from the "progressive" playbook I suppose. So Obama's Edsel will ramp up production again in April and make a product that no one wants that is being subsidized to the tune of $15k per unit. Welcome to America.
 
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 45):
Whoops.

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportat...m-halting-production-of-chevy-volt

Production of the Volt is now being stopped. Layoffs as well.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexamin...ing-1300-due-low-volt-sales/406771

And Government Motors blames the media....awesome. Just another page from the "progressive" playbook I suppose. So Obama's Edsel will ramp up production again in April and make a product that no one wants that is being subsidized to the tune of $15k per unit. Welcome to America.

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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:51 am

Since the original intent of this thread has been completely lost, I've requested that the mods lock this thread. Also, GM has decided to freeze Volt production again - and I've started a brand new thread on that development.

Thanks!  
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Superfly
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 47):
Since the original intent of this thread has been completely lost,

That's not the fault of A.net members. It was a decision by General Motors due to lack of demand.
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RE: GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:47 pm

Please continue the discussion here:

GM Freezes Chevy Volt Production Due To Sales! (by stasisLAX Mar 2 2012 in Non Aviation)

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