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Mortyman
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Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:44 am

Report: Israel won't warn US before Iran strike

Israeli officials say they won't warn the US if they decide to launch a preemptive strike against Iranian nuclear facilities, according to one US intelligence official familiar with the discussions.

Israeli officials said that if they eventually decide a strike is necessary, they would keep the Americans in the dark to decrease the likelihood that the US would be held responsible for failing to stop Israel's potential attack.

Read more here:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4195792,00.html


There is no way there will come anything good out of this .. Not for Israel, for the region or for the world ... But that's my opinion ...
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:45 am

Probably a good idea.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:55 am

Well, as long as they don't expect the US to step in (invoking an unknown clause of a non-existing friendship treaty) I don't have any problem with not warning the US beforehand. If they're brave enough to attack Iran (which might be a challenge unless they attack from Turkey) then it means they are well prepared for whatever comes their way, whether good or bad. And if any UN condemnation heads Israel's way, the US should join in strongly condemning the actions (or at the very least abstain but not veto).
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tu204
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:09 am

So they won't tell the world when they make the decision to cease to exist?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
flymia
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:51 am

Quoting tu204 (Reply 3):
So they won't tell the world when they make the decision to cease to exist?


Huh? Israel has one of the better and stronger armed forces. Their Air Force is top notch, maybe the best in the world.

I find it hard to believe they would do this, hopefully they will know what they are doing and make the right decisions. But for now don't see any military action happening on either side.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
wolbo
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:05 am

If the Zionists do decide to attack Iran I hope Obama will be sensible enough to refuse any active participation. But given the Zionist influence in American politics, a truly unhealthy phenomenon, I'm not convinced he will.
 
Quokkas
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:28 am

So basically Israel appears to be saying, "We will strike against Iran, but we are not going to give you the precise details."

Over the past months Israel has been repeating that time is running out, it will soon be too late, we need to take decisive action. So the US is aware of Israel's desire and intention to attack Iran. They just won't know the time and date.

This can work to the US's advantage. The President remains seen as being reasonable and seeking to achieve an end to Iran's nuclear ambitions by diplomatic means and sanctions, while Israel has nothing to lose. If Iran were to respond they would be universally declared to be the wrong-doers and US aid would continue to flow to Israel.

None of the Arab states will worry too much if Iran suffers a setback. There may be the odd editorial in Arab media voicing a preference for diplomatic solutions rather than military ones, but we know from the Wiki leaks that Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Jordan, among others, wanted the US to attack Iran. Who knows, they may even turn a blind eye to Israeli aircraft passing through their airspace, while complaining about a gross violation after the fact.
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DocLightning
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting wolbo (Reply 5):

If the Zionists do decide to attack Iran I hope Obama will be sensible enough to refuse any active participation. But given the Zionist influence in American politics, a truly unhealthy phenomenon, I'm not convinced he will.

I was born and raised Jewish. And I have to agree.

Having said that, this could work very well to Obama's advantage. Here we are going into an election year with gas prices rising (I paid $4.47/gal yesterday) and a huge budget deficit and now Obama is going to get forced into military action against Iran.

...unless the Israelis will do it for him. Win for Obama, win (hopefully) for Israel.

Let's not forget, Israel does have the Bomb. Well, not officially, but they do have the Bomb.
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Mortyman
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Let's not forget, Israel does have the Bomb. Well, not officially, but they do have the Bomb.

Indeed they have ... several of them ...

Let's hope that they are smart enough not to use them ..
 
Cadet985
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:58 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 6):
Who knows, they may even turn a blind eye to Israeli aircraft passing through their airspace, while complaining about a gross violation after the fact.

...or at least putting up a front of complaining.

I have heard this suggested before. Realize that the Middle East is so small in terms of size that launching a missile at Israel would have repercussions around the region in terms of damage and radioactive fallout. So pretty much, so save face and not fight fellow Muslims, I think that if Israel were to strike Iran, the Muslim countries you named might just turn a blind eye.

Marc
 
BMI727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting wolbo (Reply 5):

If the Zionists do decide to attack Iran I hope Obama will be sensible enough to refuse any active participation.

That's the beauty of it. The Israelis get to do the dirty work. All America has to do is sit back and let it happen.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 6):
The President remains seen as being reasonable and seeking to achieve an end to Iran's nuclear ambitions by diplomatic means and sanctions, while Israel has nothing to lose.

The Americans need to use this as diplomatic leverage. Make it clear to Iran that they should play ball, otherwise unleash the Israelis. Be the good cop and tell the Iranians that they are much better off dealing with us than the Israelis.
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Ken777
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:14 pm

I would far prefer that Iran can work themselves out of their corner, but if this is going to happen then I prefer it happens while President Obama is in office. Can you see how any of the GOP candidates would handle that situation?

And if there is going to be a strike on Iran I prefer that we are as far away as possible. We don't need another 10 to 20 year ME War.

But I believe we need to be realistic about this. Gas prices will increase through the roof. Terrorism would increase, including probable acts inside the US.

And, I believe, our economy will take a huge hit because of fear & a lack of public confidence.
 
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Let's not forget, Israel does have the Bomb.
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Let's hope that they are smart enough not to use them ..
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

That's the beauty of it. The Israelis get to do the dirty work. All America has to do is sit back and let it happen.

For once, words almost fail me........

Probably because, due to having been born during WW2, one of the first newspaper photographs I (vividly) recall seeing was this one:-

http://media.nowpublic.net/images//b...cad4f45b2d6dd9dd2e879d954d9d23.jpg

And I further recall my later 'national service' facing the Russians in Germany. All of us (and, I'm sure, our Russian and East German opposite numbers) were haunted by the thought that, if we ever found ourselves involved in a 'conventional war,' we might at any time hear on the radio that our homes and families had been wiped out by nuclear strikes.

Any such attack on Iran (which would, of course, lead to many thousands of deaths, including death from fallout in all neghbouring countries) would lead to decades of bitterness and reprisals. And the responsibility would inevitably rest in the end not with Israel but with the United States and all other Western powers, for having 'let it happen' - and, presumably, in the case of the USA, for having supplied the weapons in the first place. The consequences would make the 'War on Terror' look like 'peace in our time.'

Far from 'letting it happen,' my view is that the United States must prevent any such attack 'at all costs.'

[Edited 2012-02-29 18:56:16]
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thegreatRDU
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting wolbo (Reply 5):
f the Zionists do decide to attack Iran I hope Obama will be sensible enough to refuse any active participation. But given the Zionist influence in American politics, a truly unhealthy phenomenon, I'm not convinced he will.

Yes...Israel is "powerful" by proxy of the US....unfortunately the grip is too tight
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luckyone
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:33 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
If they're brave enough to attack Iran (which might be a challenge unless they attack from Turkey)

It wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot of backdoor deals going on between the Israelis and their Arab neighbors with regards to an Iranian attack. Israel does a lot of third party deals with countries that refuse to recognize them diplomatically, which to me is like paying somebody else to wipe for you. Iranians and Arabs have never been friends going back centuries, so that might override the fairly young disagreements with Israel. How does the saying going? The enemy of my enemy becomes my friend?

Quoting tu204 (Reply 3):
So they won't tell the world when they make the decision to cease to exist?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:28 am

If Israel dare chooses to launch a unilateral unprovoked strike against Iran they will literally be pushed into the Mediterranean Sea.

How exactly do you expect Iran - or any sovereign nation - not to respond to an unprovoked destruction of military and civilian facilities?

So what if Iran is trying to make the bomb. They aren't stupid enough to use one first, IMO they (most likely) would want it as a deterrent against Sunni and American power projection in the region. Just like the US, UK, Russia, China, France, India, Pakistan, and DPRK have it, as a deterrent. None of these states are stupid enough to use one first.

It's already known Israel has in excess 200 nuclear warheads, since the late 1960s. This nonsense about Israel being "suspected" of being a nuclear weapons state is just that. They built a reprocessing plant in the 50s with the help of the French, you don't really need a reprocessing plant for civilian use unless you're trying to separate isotopes (for a nuclear device). We know this because of Mordechai Vanunu, whom Israel abducted from foreign territory and imprisoned for telling state secrets.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:26 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
Any such attack on Iran (which would, of course, lead to many thousands of deaths, including death from fallout in all neghbouring countries) would lead to decades of bitterness and reprisals. And the responsibility would inevitably rest in the end not with Israel but with the United States and all other Western powers, for having 'let it happen' - and, presumably, in the case of the USA, for having supplied the weapons in the first place. The consequences would make the 'War on Terror' look like 'peace in our time.'

This is 100% true.

Are Zionists ready to go out on a bombing spree on Iran with their flghter jets to the risk of putting the world in great danger and at risk of a thermonuclear war? This is extremely selfish if you ask me, especially when it's been proved that Iran has no nuclear weapons, not one, while they, Israel, have a countless number of them. This is so hypocritical.

This is what General Leonid Ivashov says. He knows what he is talking about better than you or I.

The US and its allies started the psychological preparation of world public opinion for the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons to resolve 'the Iranian problem'. The US propaganda machine is working hard to create the impression that a 'surgically precise' use of the nuclear weapon with only limited consequences is possible. However, this has been known to be untrue since the 1945 US nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

After the very first nuclear strike, it will become totally impossible to prevent the use of all of the available means of mass destruction. In the situation of a mass extermination of their nations, the conflicting sides will resort to whatever means they have without limitations. Therefore, not only the nuclear arsenals of various countries, including those whose nuclear status is not recognized officially, will come into play. No doubt, chemical and biological warfare (and, generally, any poisonous substances), which can be produced on the basis of minimal industrial and economic resources, will be used.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5309

The pretext for the operation against Iran does not appear serious. Judging from both the technical and the political points of view, there is no possibility of it developing nuclear weapons in the near future.

Leave the Iranians alone.

No war.


     

[Edited 2012-03-01 00:29:32]
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Quokkas
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 15):
they will literally be pushed into the Mediterranean Sea.

By whom?

Israel may not enjoy the best of relations with neighbouring countries but those countries generally see Iran as a bigger "threat" to regional security. Those states are not going to permit Iran's forces to deploy through their territory. They may huff and puff for local consumption but they are likely to do exactly what they did after Israel attacked Iraq in 1981 - nothing.

Sure, at the time there was a UN resolution condemning Israel, even Margaret Thatcher criticised Israel. The US suspended (for a whole two months) the delivery of some aircraft but blocked any punitive action being imposed by the UN. After the dust settled, it was business as usual.

More recently, what was the response when Israel bombed Syria's al-Kibar nuclear facility in 2007? Is there any reason to believe things would be all that different now?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:27 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
More recently, what was the response when Israel bombed Syria's al-Kibar nuclear facility in 2007? Is there any reason to believe things would be all that different now?

There wasn't this gigantic armada in the Persian Gulf ready to make the first move with Iranian naval forces and all their allies ready for retaliation. Makes a huge difference if you ask me. Could mean a global conflagration involving nuclear weapons.

Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years. I would strongly advise that they be left in peace.

  
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:28 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
By whom?

Iran quite obviously.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
Is there any reason to believe things would be all that different now?

Iran's current military capability far exceeds Syria's or 1980's Iraq. I would not doubt an attempted Iranian strike (however successful) against the Israeli nuclear facilities in the Negev and elsewhere. Personally, I believe that it is a gross mistake to believe that Iran will sit idle against such physical belligerence. Which is why such belligerence is misplaced in the first place. Furthermore, it is based in racism, ignorance, and intolerance.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
BMI727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 15):
IMO they (most likely) would want it as a deterrent against Sunni and American power projection in the region.

Of course they would. And we wouldn't want that, so we try and stop them. We don't want to be deterred.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
This is extremely selfish if you ask me, especially when it's been proved that Iran has no nuclear weapons,

The point is to keep it that way.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
After the very first nuclear strike, it will become totally impossible to prevent the use of all of the available means of mass destruction.

Who's going to shoot back? You just said the Iranians don't have nukes. So who's going to launch one?

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
By whom?

Nobody. It won't happen.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
Is there any reason to believe things would be all that different now?

Not even a little bit. The Iranians have little means of retaliation and it's doubtful anyone will stick their neck out for them when doing so would likely mean Israel and the US opening a full can of whoop ass on them.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
I would strongly advise that they be left in peace.

Good. The Iranians should have no trouble being peaceful without nuclear weapons then.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Quokkas
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:49 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
I would strongly advise that they be left in peace.

I agree with you: Iran should be left in peace but the so-called "civilised world" is hell-bent on confrontation with Iran. I have purely addressed what the response to an attack might be.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 19):
a gross mistake to believe that Iran will sit idle

Yes Iran may respond by launching some retaliatory strikes, but that is a far cry from Israel being "literally pushed into the sea." Iran may have a large military capability but it is isolated - it can not count on support in the same way that Israel can, despite any criticisms Israel's allies may voice.

Things could get very messy and I agree that the sabre-rattling should stop but I think it is an exaggeration to say at this stage that in a contest between Iran and Israel that the latter will become history. Everyone knows that Israel does have WMDs. Iran doesn't and is unlikely to for some time, according to US intelligence reports.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
The Iranians have little means of retaliation

How do you know? Did you go to Iran doing a whole tour of their forces and checked them out?

Your assertions are ridiculous and unproved.
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:45 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Of course they would. And we wouldn't want that, so we try and stop them. We don't want to be deterred.

This old generation of American thinking has expired. I still meet youngish people who think this way, as if it's the Vietnam and Cold War all over again. It's actually a good thing for America not to be the policeman of the world. And it will come within time, Americans just need to accept it. China's already kicking our ass in the global natural resources and development front.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 21):
Yes Iran may respond by launching some retaliatory strikes, but that is a far cry from Israel being "literally pushed into the sea." Iran may have a large military capability but it is isolated - it can not count on support in the same way that Israel can, despite any criticisms Israel's allies may voice.

Israel being such a tiny, populous nation would suffer HUGE casualties in the event of a successful strike upon it's territory. Which i why, IMO, they shouldn't start things they cannot finish. It'd be pretty dumb for the Israeli leadership to automatically assume the US and Europe are going to cover them. Furthermore, they actually don't have such a long range strike capability against multiple sites 1000nm+ away. Obama doesn't want another war, especially before the election.

Israel has been blowing smoke for the past 7 years or so re. Iran. When are they going to put up or shut up? I'd be afraid of those ~900 Shahab 3 missiles myself.

Maybe Israel should stop being so belligerent, and its neighbors would stop hating them so much? But that'd require everyone to step out of the sandbox and sit at the table and talk like grown up boys and girls.   
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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par13del
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 16):
The US and its allies started the psychological preparation of world public opinion for the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons to resolve 'the Iranian problem'.

I missed this one, when have the EU, UN and USA been preparing thr world for an Israeli nuclear strike on Iran?

All reports on the issue going back over 5+ years has been that western powers have been trying to pressure Iran to not develop nuclear weapons, the last President Bush even deferred the negotiations to the EU, is the suggestion that the EU has been paving the way for a nuclear strike by Israel?

All I have seen discussed was a conventional strike using bunker buster bombs to cripple or destroy underground facilities, I will have to go and do some additional research as I must admit I totally missed the discussions of Israel launching a nuclear strike on Iran, and since everyone is convinced that Iran does not have nuclear weapons it can only be an Israeli strike and not a nuclear counter-strike by Iran.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:01 pm

Unfortunately, leading Republicans and Democrats - who won't do anything jointly about creating real jobs in our country or go after the Wall Street crooks - are unified in supporting President Obama to call the shots to attack Iran or allow Israel to do so. You have too many Americans who still want massive revenge for the shaming of the USA for the 1979-1981 Iranian Embassy hostage crises. You have a plurality of Americans who want to see an Islamic leadership country destroyed as revenge for 9/11. You have too many of influence in America and too many in Israel who are so narrow minded as to the survival of Israel over any other needs that they are blind. Some 'religious' types want the 'Armageddon' such an attack would bring in their life times to assure their getting into heaven.Then there is the big monster in the room - the world needs access to Iranian oil.

I wish President Obama would take any bombing attack on Iran by the USA or Israel off the table and make it clear he will not support and would indeed use all power to thwart one. Yes that might hurt his re-election but on this matter, but I would rather see him lose in November than see the murder of 1000''s in an attack, the creation of a possible fallout disaster (like Chernobyl) in the region, the huge motivation of terror and war in the region, Israel, the USA and the world and the economic disaster the massive jack up in oil prices in an economically weak world would be disastrous. Do USA persons want $7-9.00/gallon gasoline? I don't think so.

I hope sanity prevails, let Iran alone. We did nothing to prevent Pakistan, India and Israel create nuke weapons, why should we do anything as to Iran.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:10 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 17):
Is there any reason to believe things would be all that different now?

Not really, although Israel would have taken Syria a bit more serious (no puns intended here). Of course, this is assuming Assad renounces support of terrorism, which we know hasn't happened.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years. I would strongly advise that they be left in peace.

Not directly. But who's to say they will keep their nuclear weapon and not give it to, say, Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah? For all intents and purposes, Iran never attacked, even though the bomb was born there.

I agree and support the fact that every nation has a right to nuclear technology. Unfortunately, what Iran does does not grasp is that to the international community (except the Chavez axis), Iran is not seen as trustworthy of having it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
I hope sanity prevails, let Iran alone. We did nothing to prevent Pakistan, India and Israel create nuke weapons, why should we do anything as to Iran.

Double standard, because Israel says so.
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raffik
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:00 pm

If they attack Iran, expect World War 3 in the Middle East.
Hezbollah, who is essentially run by Iran will attack Israel from Lebanon and Syria, who also has the same Iranian ties will attack Israel from Syria. Iran also could attack . It would be a disaster, I hope it doesn't come to that.
I have family in Lebanon and it's just returned to stability. We don't want any more trouble
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par13del
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
I wish President Obama would take any bombing attack on Iran by the USA or Israel off the table and make it clear he will not support and would indeed use all power to thwart one.

How exactly would he or any US President do that, the USA is a democracy not a dictatorship, there is only so much a sitting president can do without the support of the people and their representatives.
What are his options: Cease military aid - never get through congress - cease financial support - never get through congress - and by not getting through congress I mean that the citizens of the USA will actually be telling their representatives how to vote. A fact that some pay not much attention to is that Israel has built up its own military industrial complex, is it large enough to sustain them in a long and protracted war, probably not, but it has sufficient capability to allow them to conduct activities unhindered by any US sanctions.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
I hope sanity prevails, let Iran alone. We did nothing to prevent Pakistan, India and Israel create nuke weapons, why should we do anything as to Iran.

In all such instances, short of actual war there is / was nothing the world and the USA was willing to do to prevent the ability. If the USA banned the sale of its material to Iran the European, Russians or Chinese take up the slack and vice versa, this goes all the way to embargos of food, medicine, oil and any other items that the international community chooses to use. To my knowledge, only Libya accepted inducements, and now that the country is more open, someone should actually check to see if it was all just a show to get funds and acceptance back into the international fold.

Reality is that the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not front and center on the minds of the world population.
 
us330
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 9):
Muslims, I think that if Israel were to strike Iran, the Muslim countries you named might just turn a blind eye.
Quoting luckyone (Reply 14):
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot of backdoor deals going on between the Israelis and their Arab neighbors with regards to an Iranian attack.

The traditional official "leak" publication of the Israeli defense forces and the Mossad is the Times of London, and it was reported in 2008/2009 that the Saudis pretty much told the Israelis that they would look the other way if Israeli fighter jets need to use Saudi airspace to strike Iran.

What people are forgetting, though, is that a nuclear Iran isn't just seen as an existential threat by the Israelis--the Saudis and the various Persian gulf nations (and Mubarak era Egypt) also view a nuclear Iran as an existential threat--and the concern is that by allowign the Iranians to get the bomb, that all the other nations in the Middle East will also feel the need to develop their own nuclear weapons program as a deterrent.
 
ALTF4
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
Yes that might hurt his re-election but on this matter, but I would rather see him lose in November

Have you told Mr. Obama himself? I'm sure it would calm his nerves to know somebody is willing to have him lose in November.

We all know Obama will do whatever it takes to stay in office another 4 years, just like almost every other politician out there. Don't pretend otherwise.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
BMI727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Did you go to Iran doing a whole tour of their forces and checked them out?

What great weapons does Iran have that can rain death and destruction on us and Israel?

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):

This old generation of American thinking has expired

Some people thought it did and replaced it with the "spreading democracy" crap. How's that working out?

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
It's actually a good thing for America not to be the policeman of the world.

It's not about being the policeman. It's about working to ensure America cannot be threatened or challenged in what is a very sensitive part of the world.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
It'd be pretty dumb for the Israeli leadership to automatically assume the US and Europe are going to cover them.

Why would that be dumb? The US would cover them.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
who won't do anything jointly about creating real jobs in our country or go after the Wall Street crooks - are unified in supporting President Obama to call the shots to attack Iran or allow Israel to do so.

A good old fashioned shooting war is going to create some jobs. How do you think the Great Depression ended?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
Yes that might hurt his re-election but on this matter, but I would rather see him lose in November than see the murder of 1000''s in an attack,

I doubt there's anything that could cause Obama to lose in November.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
the huge motivation of terror and war in the region

They already dislike us. It's better that they dislike us without nuclear weapons.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:18 am

Israeli officials suggest mass starving Iranians to death to stop Tehran's (non-existent) nuclear weapons program

Quote
Iran's citizens should be starved in order to curb Tehran's nuclear program, officials in Jerusalem said Wednesday ahead of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upcoming trip to Washington.
...
"Suffocating sanctions could lead to a grave economic situation in Iran and to a shortage of food," the source said. "This would force the regime to consider whether the nuclear adventure is worthwhile, while the Persian people have nothing to eat and may rise up..."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4196885,00.html

The same as when Madeleine Allbright defended the mass starving of Iraqi children "I think the price is worth it" she said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo&feature=player_embedded

Old tactics being revived. Shocking.

 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
kaitak
Posts: 9033
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
Iran's citizens should be starved in order to curb Tehran's nuclear program, officials in Jerusalem said Wednesday ahead of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upcoming trip to Washington.

i thought Netanyahu had ordered that there be no public comment about Iran and its nuclear program, ahead of his meeting with Obama, next Monday. Can we be sure that these comments are accurately reported? If so, it is disappointing and unhelpful; Israel, the US and everyone else concerned about Iran should always make it clear that their conflict is with the mullahs and ayatollahs, not the ordinary Iranian citizen.

While on the surface, Israel would be said to have taken action against Iran without US support, the US could see Israel's preps and departing aircraft on satellite and I'm sure that an appropriate codeword would be agreed to let the US know of the impending plan.

As for Iran, any Israeli attack on Iran cannot be focused only on its nuclear facilities; it MUST take out the Iranian leadership, military command/control infratructure, IRGC leadership etc, so that there is enough confusion in the wake of an attack to prevent an effective response; Iran itself is now badly split and it may not take much to create a condition that would lead to conflict between (for example) the IRGC and other groups.
 
NAV20
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
Israeli officials suggest mass starving Iranians to death to stop Tehran's (non-existent) nuclear weapons program

"Iran's citizens should be starved in order to curb Tehran's nuclear program, officials in Jerusalem said Wednesday ahead of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upcoming trip to Washington."

Puts me in mind of an earlier famous quotation, MadameConcorde, usually attributed to Karl Marx:-

“History repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.”

http://www.countercurrents.org/teltumbde060711.htm

In fact, exactly-similar policies were applied during WW2 by Nazi Germany to the populations of occupied countries, particularly in the Soviet Union, and particularly to 'easily-controlled' groups (which included prisoners-of-war and Jews):-

"The Hunger Plan caused the deaths of many, primarily Jews in the Soviet Union whom the Nazis had forced into ghettos, and Soviet prisoners of war, which were most easily controlled by the Germans and thus easily cut off from food supplies.[1] Jews for example were barred from purchasing eggs, butter, milk, meat or fruit.[5] The so-called "ration" for Jews in Minsk and other cities within the control of Army Group Center was no more than 420 calories per day. Tens of thousands of Jews died of hunger and hunger-related causes over the winter of 1941-2."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan

It deeply saddens me that Israel now appears to be favouring applying to Muslims the same policies that Nazi Germany applied to Jews in the relatively recent past........

But I shouldn't really be surprised. The expression 'history repeats itself' is long-standing and well-known.

And appears to remain both relevant and accurate, right up to the present time.........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
It's not about being the policeman. It's about working to ensure America cannot be threatened or challenged in what is a very sensitive part of the world.

And what do you call that? If you don't want to be threatened, then you take every precaution to make sure that it doesn't. You monitor, raise flags when something is up, and use force to stop something that goes against public order...hmm...sounds a lot like police work to me.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ALTF4
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 37):
And what do you call that?

So me protecting myself in my home makes me a policeman? I monitor things, raise flags (call for help) when something is up, and put a few rounds in any intruder if necessary.

I'm not a policeman.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Flighty
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
Yes that might hurt his re-election but on this matter, but I would rather see him lose in November than see the murder of 1000''s in an attack

This is the whole reason I voted for BO. He was against the Iraq invasion and said so. That took real balls or so it seems. Maybe it is naive, but I think he could tell Netanyahu to go to hell with his preemptive killing plans. My appeal is still strategic. An attack does nothing but help Iran galvanize its moral position.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:16 pm

This war would be a Long & expensive one.....The price of oil will shoot up.
I dont think the planet can afford this.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
us330
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 36):
In fact, exactly-similar policies were applied during WW2 by Nazi Germany to the populations of occupied countries,
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 36):
It deeply saddens me that Israel now appears to be favouring applying to Muslims the same policies that Nazi Germany applied to Jews in the relatively recent past........

The analogy is erroneous and dishonest--these are not identical scenarios. The key difference here is that Israel doesn't control Iran--whereas Nazi Germany controlled the occupied countries--this is not a domestic policy against an interal minority. Sanctions against a foreign country are a perfectly legitimate means of accomplishing foreign policy goals--and aren't guaranteed to work (and probably won't work as long as Russia and China remain close to Iran). That same plan--the idea of suffocating sanctions--has been used against North Korea by the U.S, and in other instances--but at no point was the U.S. compared to the Nazis.
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 18):
There wasn't this gigantic armada in the Persian Gulf ready to make the first move with Iranian naval forces and all their allies ready for retaliation. Makes a huge difference if you ask me. Could mean a global conflagration involving nuclear weapons.

Iran has not attacked anyone in 200 years. I would strongly advise that they be left in peace.

What peace are they basking in? Trying to build a Nuke doesnt sound very peaceful to me and big LOL at the Iranian fleet. I realise this is Airliners.net and not military.net but it does amuse me at times when people debate military topics.

Invading and occupying Iran would be a task, If Iran gained NUKES it would be a problem.. but the Iranian Navy a threat to the open sea.. do me a favour.. I could push 5 rubber duckies with water guns taped to them out from Kuwait and make them look more intimidating. Irans power is in its useage of terrorist organisations not its STRONG military or its "allys" armada. Saudi is Irans enemy, Iraq is Irans Enemy.. Egypt is under US influence.. where are all Irans allys? Syria on the verge if not already in civil war and a Lebanese Based Terrorist group?

Its like nearly as bad as Galloway who thinks the falklands would be threatened by Argentinas amazingly underfunded tin can navy. No clue.. no clue at all.


Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
This war would be a Long & expensive one.....The price of oil will shoot up.
I dont think the planet can afford this.....


If a "war" happens it will be an allied effort most likely led by the USA despite what people on here will babbel on about. It wont be a ground invasion or occupation. It will be selected targeting of sites, it will be removal of nuclear scientists. I think its likely strikes will come sooner or later because there seems little doubt Iran is trying to build Nuclear weapons despite endless warnings from countless international organisations and nations. This will not sit well with most of the West and contrary to popular ANET belief it wont sit well with most of the Middle East. Nobody wants Iran to have nukes, Especially its neighbours.

We can all be dramatic and emo and "no war" blah blah blah but in the long run the world will be a much worse place if a country like Iran with its current leadership has Nukes.

[Edited 2012-03-03 00:11:28 by SA7700]
 
Flighty
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 43):
We can all be dramatic and emo and "no war" blah blah blah but in the long run the world will be a much worse place if a country like Iran with its current leadership has Nukes.

I missed the part where the justification of killing people in cold blood was.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
Israeli officials suggest mass starving Iranians to death to stop Tehran's (non-existent) nuclear weapons program

Wait. You disagree that they are starting a nuclear weapons program?

That's rather unique.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 36):
It deeply saddens me that Israel now appears to be favouring applying to Muslims the same policies that Nazi Germany applied to Jews in the relatively recent past........

I tend to agree. I wonder when they are going to start building concentration camps.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
ltbewr
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:47 am

The best hope to prevent either Iran pursuing nuke weapons and an attack on their facilities by Israel or the USA is continuing the access to Iran's oil. Indeed perhaps that is part of Iran's perverse plan, to extort more money for their oil by using the nuke threat. We have seen North Korea do the same thing several times, including this week, using nuke development threats as extortion to get food and other goods for their country's citizens.

If Iran plays it too hard and they do get bombed, they they would lose at least short term all oil income, which in turn would destroy their overwhelming exports and income, destroy the economy of Iran and possibly chase out the leaders there in a 'Iranian spring'.

This weekend and into early next week is the AIPAC conference, with almost all politicians pledging their unconditional love for Israel - and access to millions of campaign contributions. Obama will be meeting on Monday to kiss the ass of the Israeli PM, extreme right-wing-nut Netanyahu instead of kicking it to deny him any support to bomb Iran. Of course the Iran nuke situation will as others have noted will be the overwhelming story. I wish Obama and these politicians were meeting with real day to day Israelis, including from the most anti-war and civil rights minded citizens as well as Palestinian leaders - Christian as well as Islamic, but that won't happen.

Let us pray and/or hope sanity prevails.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:17 am

I will be so happy if oil goes to USD250/barrel. Cheers for oil investments. :P

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 25):
I wish President Obama would take any bombing attack on Iran by the USA or Israel off the table and make it clear he will not support and would indeed use all power to thwart one. Yes that might hurt his re-election but on this matter, but I would rather see him lose in November than see the murder of 1000''s in an attack, the creation of a possible fallout disaster (like Chernobyl) in the region, the huge motivation of terror and war in the region, Israel, the USA and the world and the economic disaster the massive jack up in oil prices in an economically weak world would be disastrous. Do USA persons want $7-9.00/gallon gasoline? I don't think so.

Thank you.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):

Some people thought it did and replaced it with the "spreading democracy" crap. How's that working out?

There are some situations where "spreading democracy" doesn't work at all. I'm actually no a fan of spreading democracy ad nauseam if people don't want it. That has little relevance to Iran and the bomb.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):
It's not about being the policeman. It's about working to ensure America cannot be threatened or challenged in what is a very sensitive part of the world.

??? Since when did one sovereign nation get to decide the internal affairs of another?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 32):

Why would that be dumb? The US would cover them.

I personally hope not. It's not our job to clean up the UK's mess.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 34):
As for Iran, any Israeli attack on Iran cannot be focused only on its nuclear facilities; it MUST take out the Iranian leadership, military command/control infratructure, IRGC leadership etc, so that there is enough confusion in the wake of an attack to prevent an effective response

As if this would be so easily done. Iran is much more spread out than Saddam's Iraq was. Such an attack would not be outside the realm of the US or the Russians, but the Israelis? Please.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 35):

It deeply saddens me that Israel now appears to be favouring applying to Muslims the same policies that Nazi Germany applied to Jews in the relatively recent past........

A lot of these hardcore Zionists seem to forget the notion of abused versus abuser.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 38):
This is the whole reason I voted for BO. He was against the Iraq invasion and said so. That took real balls or so it seems. Maybe it is naive, but I think he could tell Netanyahu to go to hell with his preemptive killing plans. My appeal is still strategic. An attack does nothing but help Iran galvanize its moral position.
exactly One cannot realistically expect a sovereign state not to respond to foreign bombing on its territory. It is foolish. Even if you are against the spread of nuclear weapons, it is a different argument to bomb a sovereign nation for no good reason.

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 41):
What peace are they basking in? Trying to build a Nuke doesnt sound very peaceful to me and big LOL at the Iranian fleet. I realise this is Airliners.net and not military.net but it does amuse me at times when people debate military topics.

If you want to compare peace to having nuclear weapons, then what kind of peace are the US, UK, France, Britain, and Russia in? Let alone India, Pakistan, DPRK, and Israel?

No peace, is it?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 44):

If Iran plays it too hard and they do get bombed, they they would lose at least short term all oil income, which in turn would destroy their overwhelming exports and income, destroy the economy of Iran and possibly chase out the leaders there in a 'Iranian spring'.

Forget Iran losing income. The price of crude oil, and every petroleum product and byproduct would skyrocket.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
BMI727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):
There are some situations where "spreading democracy" doesn't work at all.

...and this is one of them. This is about making sure that the Iranians cannot threaten us or our allies.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):
Since when did one sovereign nation get to decide the internal affairs of another?

Since we got the planes and the missiles and the ships, that's when. This is classic security dilemma: them strengthening their defenses inherently weakens ours. I'm sure that I don't need to explain why that is bad or why we don't want them to develop nuclear weapons.

America needs to go to Iran and get the Iranians to play ball. And if they're smart they'll do it. Not because they don't have the right to have a military, not because they all of the sudden want to make gestures of good faith. They'll do it because if they don't the Israelis might blow away their facilities.

Sovereignty only goes as far as it is able to be enforced. There's a pretty good chance that the Israelis and Americans could club Iranian sovereignty like a baby seal.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):
A lot of these hardcore Zionists seem to forget the notion of abused versus abuser.

The hardcore Zionists have never been abused, since they are mostly red state evangelicals.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:48 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
This is about making sure that the Iranians cannot threaten us or our allies.

Why is Israel that much more of an ally than anyone else in the Mid East?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):

Since we got the planes and the missiles and the ships, that's when.

Under international law, hardly. Under a 13yo boy's military wet dream, maybe. There's more to be said using diplomacy than hate and war mongering. But some people are no better than a snake in the grass.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
They'll do it because if they don't the Israelis might blow away their facilities.

And therefore wipe themselves off the map of the Middle East.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
Sovereignty only goes as far as it is able to be enforced. There's a pretty good chance that the Israelis and Americans could club Iranian sovereignty like a baby seal.

Sovereignty is an ideology not a physical constraint. It should be respected by international law. It has been seen that the State of Israel does not respect international law for many decades. Yet, ironically, everyone wants to talk about Iran.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
The hardcore Zionists have never been abused, since they are mostly red state evangelicals.

Since they are too young to remember the pain of WWII. Most of those people have died. Including within my own family.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
BMI727
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:09 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 47):
Why is Israel that much more of an ally than anyone else in the Mid East?

Guilt over the Holocaust and a strong religious right lobby. Maybe with a little sprinkling of racism on top.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 47):
There's more to be said using diplomacy than hate and war mongering.

A diplomatic solution is ideal, but this situation seems to be making the transition from normal diplomacy to here's-what-you're-gonna-do-otherwise-you-may-not-have-a-palace-tomorrow diplomacy.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 47):
And therefore wipe themselves off the map of the Middle East.

Who's going to do that? The Arab world is not thrilled with Iran's behavior either.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 47):
Sovereignty is an ideology not a physical constraint.

...only in classrooms and the naive minds of idealists. Maybe we can get the League of Nations back together while we're at it.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Report: Israel Won't Warn US Before Iran Strike

Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):

Guilt over the Holocaust and a strong religious right lobby. Maybe with a little sprinkling of racism on top.

= a bunch of nonsense.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
A diplomatic solution is ideal, but this situation seems to be making the transition from normal diplomacy to here's-what-you're-gonna-do-otherwise-you-may-not-have-a-palace-tomorrow diplomacy.

Sometimes you have to accept that wimpy kid into the varsity squad, rather than pounding the **** out of him year after year.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):
Who's going to do that? The Arab world is not thrilled with Iran's behavior either.

They should stand up for themselves then, rather than the big bad US and by proxy Israel.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 48):

...only in classrooms and the naive minds of idealists. Maybe we can get the League of Nations back together while we're at it.

I think you meant the opposite of what you wrote in reference to my post.

The hypocrisy is that apparently "international law" only works in favor of the big and bad nations, not the beleaguered and decided upon ones.
oh boy, here we go!!!

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