Geezer
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Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:31 am

I just heard this, so I haven't had a chance to check it out yet; It sounds like a pretty good plan to me; it will be interesting to hear what others think.

Charley




I-95 and I-75 will be jammed for the next month or so with druggies and
deadbeats heading North out of Florida, because this is the first state in
the union to require drug testing to receive welfare!

In signing the new law, Republican Gov. Rick Scott
said, "If Floridians want welfare, they better make sure they are
drug-free".

Applicants must pay for the drug test, but are reimbursed if they test
drug-free.

Applicants who test positive for illicit substances won't be eligible for
the funds for a year, or until they undergo treatment.

Those who fail a second time will be banned from receiving funds for three
years!

Naturally, a few people are crying this is unconstitutional. How is this
unconstitutional? It's a legal requirement that every person applying for a
JOB has to pass drug tests in order to get the JOB, why not those who
receive welfare?


I might add to that last paragraph, for the last 10 or so years I worked, we were subject to have to go for a random test any time; the terminal would receive orders from the corporate office........send driver so and so for a random test as soon as he comes to work; I've even had to go take the test twice in one month; you'd be surprised at how many drivers gave up smoking "pot".

The union made the company pay us about four hours pay, and our hourly rate was around $20 at the time (late 80's )
and it usually only took an hour and a half or two hours, so I was glad to do it; (I even "volunteered" to go for guys that thought they might not pass) If the public ever knew how many truck drivers were smoking weed back then, there would have been a revolt; one of the few good things I ever remember the feds doing.

Here's my only "beef.........even though I never got "into" the pot thing, I worked with a hell of a lot of guys who did, and I really think most of them were less than 1/10 the risk driving after a weekend smoking a few joints, than someone who showed up for work 10 hours after being plastered on their butts from too much beer. I'm totally convinced that beer has caused far more crashes than pot ever has. Yet you could get drunk, go to work 10 hrs later, and be legal ! See why I have such faith in the " gubmint" ?


Charley
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Go3Team
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:44 am

I can't remember how many Gov't mandated randoms I've had in the past 16 years, but I do remember the 4 I had to take in one month because that is how random it is. I also remember having the owner of the company taking me over to do mine, because he had to do his too. Exactly how hard is it to pee in a cup to get a check?
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photopilot
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:35 am

Here's the only problem with this.

You get smashed on alcohol and within a day all traces of the alcohol are out of your system. However THC, the active ingredient in Marijuana is fat soluable and a person can show residual traces for quite some time after, even though there are no psychotropic effects left.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 2):
You get smashed on alcohol and within a day all traces of the alcohol are out of your system. However THC, the active ingredient in Marijuana is fat soluable and a person can show residual traces for quite some time after, even though there are no psychotropic effects left.


Drugs are Illegal, alcohol is not, so this is very fair IMHO.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
It's a legal requirement that every person applying for a
JOB has to pass drug tests in order to get the JOB, why not those who
receive welfare?

Really? Show me that law.

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
Naturally, a few people are crying this is unconstitutional. How is this
unconstitutional?

A little thing called the fourth amendment, unlawful search and seizure.

Dan in Jupiter
 
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GSPFlyer
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:07 pm

Good, people don't need to be wasting money they get from the government on drugs.

I actually think this is more reasonable than drug testing someone who works, at least the person who is working is spending their own money on drugs, not money out of the taxpayers pockets. Now, I'm not saying to get rid of drug testing for jobs, because they are called ILLEGAL drugs for a reason, I'm just pointing something out.
 
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
I-95 and I-75 will be jammed for the next month or so with druggies and
deadbeats heading North out of Florida, because this is the first state in
the union to require drug testing to receive welfare!

Either that, or crime rates will go up, along with police, court and prison costs, as "druggies" decide to just steal what they want. There's no easy answer. If it were easy, it would have been solved long ago.
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casinterest
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:15 pm

According to articles I have read, they have only caught 2% of the folks using drugs on welfare throught this method. Their is an estimate that 9% of the population of Florida uses illegal drugs, so maybe the theory of who is doing the drugs is a bit off?

Is this a money loser for the State of Florida? especially now that State Employees....but not legislaters are going to be reguired to undergo the drug testing?
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Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
It sounds like a pretty good plan to me

It's a great plan if you don't mind spending money on it. Because it's not saving Florida anything. Quite the reverse, in fact:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/9-inve...igates-welfare-drug-testing/nFPB3/

This should be a good lesson to everyone who wants government to make laws just on principle. Laws have a cost of enforcement, and if you're not careful, you'll end up paying more to enforce them than you save. If Florida is smart, they'll be repealing this one pretty soon.

-Mir
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Dreadnought
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
This should be a good lesson to everyone who wants government to make laws just on principle. Laws have a cost of enforcement, and if you're not careful, you'll end up paying more to enforce them than you save. If Florida is smart, they'll be repealing this one pretty soon.

Saving money is not the point. The point is to stop rewarding and enabling bad behavior. There is no question that a meth-head or pot-head is going to have a tougher time finding someone willing to hire them.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Saving money is not the point. The point is to stop rewarding and enabling bad behavior.

If you're willing to spend taxpayer money to do that, fine. But then call it what it is: a social engineering plan, not a cost-saving measure.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mt99
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:56 pm

Wanst there a counter proposal taht would require Florida Legislators to submit to drug testing as well for them to collect their salary?
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Saving money is not the point.

Maybe in your mind, but the link in #8 says:

Quote:

Governor Rick Scott said the program would save money.
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seb146
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:09 pm

First you say:

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
It sounds like a pretty good plan to me;

Then you say:

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
Yet you could get drunk, go to work 10 hrs later, and be legal ! See why I have such faith in the " gubmint" ?

So, you want the "gub'mint" out of everyone's lives, but you want the "gub'mint" to be in everyone's lives???

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 5):
people don't need to be wasting money they get from the government on drugs.

I don't know about Florida, but OR, WA, and CA have cards for people to purchase food. They have to take the card to the supermarket to purchase actual food. They can not simply tear those coupons out and give them to other people. How does that work, exactly?
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mmedford
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
It's a great plan if you don't mind spending money on it. Because it's not saving Florida anything. Quite the reverse, in fact:
Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
Applicants must pay for the drug test, but are reimbursed if they test
drug-free.

Applicants who test positive for illicit substances won't be eligible for
the funds for a year, or until they undergo treatment.

Hell How much could a drug test costs these days; i'm sure Qwest would love to make a killing on this contract.


Look I'm a Fed Employee...my salary comes out of the same fund that welfare does. I get randomly drug tested, why shouldn't those who get paid out of the same fund get the same treatment?
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Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting mmedford (Reply 14):
Look I'm a Fed Employee...my salary comes out of the same fund that welfare does. I get randomly drug tested

Because you're in a safety critical job. So are truck drivers, pilots, air traffic controllers, etc. So drug testing makes sense. But your average welfare recipient is not in a safety critical job, and thus the only point of drug testing is to try and make sure that they're not spending public money on drugs (which is a very different reason from the reason you're on a drug testing program).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mmedford
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
which is a very different reason from the reason you're on a drug testing program).

How do they know I'm not using public money on drugs?... You know the deal, don't smoke the profits...lol
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Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting mmedford (Reply 16):
How do they know I'm not using public money on drugs?.

If it's coming out of your salary, then it's your money, not public money. You perform a service for the government, the government compensates you for that service, and then you're free to spend that money however you want to. The only thing that the government should really care about is that you're not under the influence of drugs while maintaining critical navigation equipment.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sprout5199
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:04 pm

This is about Gov. Voldemort pandering to the the tea baggers. far and away the WORST governor Florida has ever had. Doesnt matter that most of the things he has changed are against the law(see the prision and pension screw ups) he keeps doing them, costing us Floridians more money taking it to court. He is a crook.

Dan in Jupiter
 
lewis
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:11 pm

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just give them named cards that they can use in supermarkets for food only instead of doing drug tests?
 
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STT757
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
It's a legal requirement that every person applying for a
JOB has to pass drug tests in order to get the JOB, why not those who
receive welfare?

Where, in fact public school teachers don't have to take drug tests. Neither do Principals, Vice Principals, Guidance Counselors, janitors, Mayors, School board members etc...

Question, do the Florida lawmakers who wrote the bill, have to take drug tests. I doubt it.
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:21 pm

Quote:
This is about Gov. Voldemort pandering to the [tea party]

I thought they were the ones who were fanatical about the Constitution?

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 4):
A little thing called the fourth amendment, unlawful search and seizure.

Hmmm...
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DocLightning
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
Here's my only "beef.........even though I never got "into" the pot thing, I worked with a hell of a lot of guys who did, and I really think most of them were less than 1/10 the risk driving after a weekend smoking a few joints, than someone who showed up for work 10 hours after being plastered on their butts from too much beer. I'm totally convinced that beer has caused far more crashes than pot ever has. Yet you could get drunk, go to work 10 hrs later, and be legal ! See why I have such faith in the " gubmint" ?

Truer words were never spoken.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Saving money is not the point.

Did YOU of all people really just say that?         

You rail about some money going to Planned Parenthood or to pay for contraception, but you're quite happy to waste money when it suits your purposes. "Fiscally conservative" my left gonad.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
So, you want the "gub'mint" out of everyone's lives, but you want the "gub'mint" to be in everyone's lives???

Where did he say that?

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 4):

A little thing called the fourth amendment, unlawful search and seizure.

Interesting question. How is this different from requiring a nude-o-scope when flying? Why is that Constitutional and this isn't? It's one thing when you don't have a choice at all, but in this case, you can avoid the drug tests by choosing not to use welfare. Of course, it's your problem how you're going to eat and pay rent, then. But that's no different from having a job that requires drug tests. If you don't want to work, it's your problem of how you are going to pay for food and rent.

I'm actually fine with cracking down on welfare abuse and I don't have any philosophical opposition to drug testing welfare recipients. But I think that a random program that pulls, say, one out of every twenty people coming into the welfare line at random and drug tests them makes more sense than a universal testing program. The problem is that in typical GOP fashion, they went for the "hit 'em hard" approach and used a cannon to kill a mosquito when a fly swatter would have done the job just as well.

As for...

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
I-95 and I-75 will be jammed for the next month or so with druggies and
deadbeats heading North out of Florida, because this is the first state in
the union to require drug testing to receive welfare!

Approximately 3% of recipients have been testing positive so far (if I read the reports correctly), so the above statement is ridiculous.
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zckls04
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Saving money is not the point. The point is to stop rewarding and enabling bad behavior. There is no question that a meth-head or pot-head is going to have a tougher time finding someone willing to hire them.

I'm quite surprised this has never been done before (or at least trialled). However I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that it will have the desired effect. The real scumbags will find other, more destructive ways of getting their drug money.

I think I'd like to see a clear goal stated here- if it's to reduce drug use there needs to be a way of measuring its effects so we can establish if the trial has been a success. I think the idealogical position taken by supporters of this bill is weak, so the pragmatic position must be strong for it to have merit.

But I think it would be a mistake to reject it out of hand.
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GSPFlyer
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 19):
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just give them named cards that they can use in supermarkets for food only instead of doing drug tests?

South Carolina, my home state, uses these cards, but I'm pretty sure people find a way around it. Possibly by selling the food that they purchase with the card.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Interesting question. How is this different from requiring a nude-o-scope when flying? Why is that Constitutional and this isn't? It's one thing when you don't have a choice at all, but in this case, you can avoid the drug tests by choosing not to use welfare.

Well, one is for the safety of the flight the other is just to say "look what we are doing to reduce welfare". You can avoid the "nude-o-scope" by not flying. This is just pandering to the tea baggers, thats it. And guess who he wanted to do the testing, come on take a guess.Solantic, the company the Voldemort owns, well not really, he gave all his shares to his wife, so he doesnt own it anymore, so he says. Makes you go HMMMM.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
I'm actually fine with cracking down on welfare abuse and I don't have any philosophical opposition to drug testing welfare recipients. But I think that a random program that pulls, say, one out of every twenty people coming into the welfare line at random and drug tests them makes more sense than a universal testing program. The problem is that in typical GOP fashion, they went for the "hit 'em hard" approach and used a cannon to kill a mosquito when a fly swatter would have done the job just as well.

I am also, IF the cost vs benifit is on the plus side. If someone tests positive, offer them treatment. If they refuse, then on a case by case basis, reduce or end the welfare. Hard to cut a whole family off for what the parent does. With the cards they use now, there really is a lot less abuse than in the past.

Dan in Jupiter, Florida.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 25):

Well, one is for the safety of the flight the other is just to say "look what we are doing to reduce welfare". You can avoid the "nude-o-scope" by not flying.

And again, you can avoid a drug test by not being on welfare. Some people have to fly or they don't eat and pay the rent. Similarly, some people need welfare or they don't eat or pay the rent. Welfare is not a fundamental human right. I think there should be conditions on it. But the first condition should be 'you will not get pregnant or father a child while you are on welfare.'

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 25):
And guess who he wanted to do the testing, come on take a guess.Solantic, the company the Voldemort owns,

Yeah, I'm not surprised. Like I said, I don't like Florida's program.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 25):
I am also, IF the cost vs benifit is on the plus side. If someone tests positive, offer them treatment. If they refuse, then on a case by case basis, reduce or end the welfare. Hard to cut a whole family off for what the parent does. With the cards they use now, there really is a lot less abuse than in the past.

We have the cards in CA, and yet I see parents coming in driving Escalades and other such cars while they are handing me WIC forms and their kids are on Medi-Cal insurance. There needs to be a way of attacking this sort of abuse.
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sprout5199
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
There needs to be a way of attacking this sort of abuse.


I agree. But that is for another thread.
I have never been on unemployment, but have used WIC with my first child. That is a great program, keeps the abuse down and provides the essential needs for the child and mother.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
and yet I see parents coming in driving Escalades

I hear ya.

Dan in Jupiter
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 25):
This is just pandering to the tea baggers, thats it

Oh god, do we want to bring in the 'sluts' argument here? Shame on you.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Similarly, some people need welfare or they don't eat or pay the rent. Welfare is not a fundamental human right. I think there should be conditions on it. But the first condition should be 'you will not get pregnant or father a child while you are on welfare.'

I'm glad we agree on something. Welfare is a favor - a charitable act on the part of society that does not want to see people sleeping on sidewalks - no different than in the old days when somebody who is down and out would go to their friends, neighbors, and their church for help. (We can argue whether the charitable giving is the moral equivalent of having your money forcibly taken by taxes elsewhere). We (society) have no obligation to do so, but we want to help when we can.

But just as your friends, neighbors, and your church would eventually wise up and stop subsidizing you if you refused to do what you had to do to get yourself back on your feet, society should do no different. A welfare recipient who pumps out babies or drinks or does drugs or otherwise is not committed to becoming self-sufficient is a slap in the face of his/her benefactor(s), and should be treated as such. The only reason that this does not happen is that Welfare recipients have been recognized as a valuable voting block by some politicians.
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757luver
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 24):
South Carolina, my home state, uses these cards, but I'm pretty sure people find a way around it. Possibly by selling the food that they purchase with the card.

They do just like before but instead of giving them the "coupons" like in the old days they go to the store and buy the food for the person. I for one am for this as I know someone who lives in Florida who has a phlebotomy license but because said person chooses to smoke weed on a daily basis and cant pass a drug test they work in a fast food joint and collect "assistance". I too am subject to random drug screens at work and think if they aren't working and welfare is their source of income then they too should be tested. Why should all the honest, hard working americans have to pay for someone to sit around all day and get high or drunk. I also think that there should be a limit on how long you can collect the benefits. Not that I'm against the program itself cause I know everyone has times when they need help.
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DocLightning
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 27):
I have never been on unemployment, but have used WIC with my first child. That is a great program, keeps the abuse down and provides the essential needs for the child and mother.

It's a great idea with some serious execution problems. 1) WIC offices insist on handing out unhealthy beverages like whole milk and fruit juice. 2) WIC offices repeatedly refer children to me for "being too skinny" when their BMI is 50%ile for age. 3) A lot (not "most," but a lot) of my WIC parents seem to be spending a lot of money on hair, nails, clothes, cars, and phones and have an attitude that whatever they can get the government to pay for is just fine.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
The only reason that this does not happen is that Welfare recipients have been recognized as a valuable voting block by some politicians.

Really? So the GOP would be fine with mandating birth control (and thus providing it) for all female welfare recipients?
-Doc Lightning-

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BMI727
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
So, you want the "gub'mint" out of everyone's lives, but you want the "gub'mint" to be in everyone's lives???

If you're going to live on government funds, absolutely. If you don't want to get drug tested, you don't have to. You just can't collect welfare. It's misappropriation, pure and simple.

Welfare should be deep sixed entirely, but if you must hand out money, hand it out with lots of strings attached.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 4):
A little thing called the fourth amendment, unlawful search and seizure.

Not applicable. This is more like implied consent: if you're willing to cash the check, you're willing to take the test. Nobody is forcing them to take the test.
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Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
if you must hand out money, hand it out with lots of strings attached.

Even if that means handing out more money?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
BMI727
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):
Even if that means handing out more money?

That's why I'd just get rid of the whole thing and build better schools. I'd rather spend money on drug tests than drugs though since, if nothing else, it's economic stimulus.
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Revelation
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
A welfare recipient who pumps out babies or drinks or does drugs or otherwise is not committed to becoming self-sufficient is a slap in the face of his/her benefactor(s), and should be treated as such. The only reason that this does not happen is that Welfare recipients have been recognized as a valuable voting block by some politicians.

Let me ask what treatment conservatives would give to members of society who pump out babies or drink or do drugs or otherwise are not committed to becoming self-sufficient. Murder them? I thought every life was sacred. Banish them to debtors prisons? Not fiscally responsible. Just cut them off financially and let them fend for themselves? Leads to crime, which leads to prison, which is also not fiscally or socially responsible.

I have yet to hear a workable plan from either party.

I think there's no good answer here because it's a difficult if not impossible problem to solve.

Feel free to think it happens because supporting welfare benefits one set of politicians, but to me it seems to benefit another group of politicians who benefit from complaining about welfare without coming up with any workable solution.

As crappy as the current system is, it's less crappy than anything anyone else can come up with.
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StarAC17
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
I think there should be conditions on it. But the first condition should be 'you will not get pregnant or father a child while you are on welfare.'

Going to be hard now if the GOP gets their way in the contraception debate   .
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Let me ask what treatment conservatives would give to members of society who pump out babies or drink or do drugs or otherwise are not committed to becoming self-sufficient. Murder them?

No, that was the original solution of Progressives, before they realized that they could instead be harvested for the acquisition of power.

The conservative solution is to help those who help themselves.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):
No, that was the original solution of Progressives, before they realized that they could instead be harvested for the acquisition of power.

In my experience, hatred of welfare is a strong unifying force for the Conservatives.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):
The conservative solution is to help those who help themselves.

And have no answer for those who can't/won't/don't. They just pretend they don't exist, just like your answer indicates.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
In my experience, hatred of welfare is a strong unifying force for the Conservatives.

Negative. We recognize that some people need help. Hatred of the ABUSE of welfare is what gives us heartburn. For instance, the fact that over 40% of the US population is now receiving food stamps, and the Administration is giving $75,000 prize awards to those local offices that sign up the most assistance requests is abusive. Helping the poor has ceased simply being a need to help one's neighbor when he is in need (and getting assistance yourself in turn if something ever happens to you, but has become a political tool, with millions of people actually being encouraged to leech off of others indefinitely.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
And have no answer for those who can't/won't/don't. They just pretend they don't exist, just like your answer indicates.

Don't equate them. We have no problem with "Can't". We have a problem with "Won't".
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stasisLAX
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:11 am

Oh my, yet ANOTHER Rethuglican "wedge issue".

More of the same old "rich people telling middle class people why they should hate poor people" diversionary crap.   
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Ken777
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
Naturally, a few people are crying this is unconstitutional.

Let the courts work it out over time.

Especially in cases where people are taking prescriptions for medical conditions they have. Trial lawyer paradise for those situations.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Saving money is not the point.

Having the state spend money at places owned by the governor's friends might be the point.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The point is to stop rewarding and enabling bad behavior.

So step one would be to eliminate payments to politicians? Just look at the politician who have had multiple wives. The Trans-Vaginal GOP even has one running for President.  Wow!
Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):

Wanst there a counter proposal taht would require Florida Legislators to submit to drug testing as well for them to collect their salary?

Make them be tested before every vote. That works for me.


Basically I see this as a pretty simple situation. Companies that do drug testing will make a lot of money - the only real benefit of the program. My guess, therefore, is that the governor is tied into those clinics/labs.

Point two, if the state denies enough people the market for illegal guns will increase, as will crime. Easier to rob the tourists or banks than it is to drive to a civilized state.
 
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting CASINTEREST (Reply 7):
According to articles I have read, they have only caught 2% of the folks using drugs on welfare throught this method. Their is an estimate that 9% of the population of Florida uses illegal drugs, so maybe the theory of who is doing the drugs is a bit off?

Yes, I am sure it all those people not on welfare that are contributing to the alleged 9% drug users in Florida. You know how old snow-birds love a good crack pipe.

Oh, and how many people either a) stopped doing drugs a while back before the testing or b) knew they would fail and didn't even bother doing a drug-test? Those are wins too in my book.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):

Because you're in a safety critical job. So are truck drivers, pilots, air traffic controllers, etc.

How do you know he is in a safety-critical job? Only thing I could tell from his description is that he is a Federal employee. I don't even work for the Federal government and am required by law to submit not only to a drug test but also to finger-printing and a background check by the FBI - and my job is nowhere near safety-critical.
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ltbewr
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:04 am

To me there should be probable cause to require those that want to collect welfare be tested for drugs. To test everyone is a waste, it may cost taxpayers $10,000 or more for each one 'caught'. Will you have to test teen-aged dependents? You have the risk of getting false positives. Don't forget too that many on welfare may have children and if the parent can't get welfare, those children may be at risk of not being property supported.

Better might be a limited physical examination to look for signs of alcohol or drug abuse, if the applicant has signs then test them and get them some rehabilitation before they can collect or only limited benefits for dependents. To shame or threaten those that may need welfare benefits is more about politics especially by social and fiscal conservatives rather than reason.
 
BMI727
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Just cut them off financially and let them fend for themselves?

Yep.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Leads to crime, which leads to prison, which is also not fiscally or socially responsible.

The welfare-as-extortion model is ridiculous. It's not like there are any charities or anything trying to help poor people either.  

The bottom line is here is how it should be: if you're too stupid to go to and succeed in school, you're probably going to be poor and miserable. If you're stupid enough to commit a crime, you're going to go to jail.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 37):
And have no answer for those who can't/won't/don't.

They lie in the bed they make.
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Mir
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 41):

How do you know he is in a safety-critical job? Only thing I could tell from his description is that he is a Federal employee.

Because he and I have talked a couple of times, and the subject of what we do for a living has come up. Nothing more complicated than that.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 41):
I don't even work for the Federal government and am required by law to submit not only to a drug test but also to finger-printing and a background check by the FBI - and my job is nowhere near safety-critical.

Without knowing what it is that you do (since you and I haven't talked about it), I can't really comment on that. I'm also required to submit to random drug testing, fingerprinting and a background check, but that's par for the course for a charter pilot.

-Mir
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seb146
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
but if you must hand out money, hand it out with lots of strings attached.

Like "you have to have kids" kinda thing? Oh, wait...

That's what I don't get: These people have kids and they are being charged for drug tests. That's money they don't have in the first place being taken away from kids.

Quoting lewis (Reply 19):
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just give them named cards that they can use in supermarkets for food only instead of doing drug tests?

In some states, they do use cards that can only purchase food.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):

No, that was the original solution of Progressives, before they realized that they could instead be harvested for the acquisition of power.

OMG, a conspiracy! I love conspiracy theories! *Sits forward, eyes bright* What's this one? Wait wait wait... the liberals have bred a race of brainless, worthless human beings who will vote Democrat... Did I get it? Do I get a cookie?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
Basically I see this as a pretty simple situation. Companies that do drug testing will make a lot of money - the only real benefit of the program. My guess, therefore, is that the governor is tied into those clinics/labs.

His wife is heavily invested into the firm that won the contract. What a shock.
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Pellegrine
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:11 pm

There's nothing wrong with smoking marijuana. Laws in Florida are made by dumb conservatives.
oh boy!!!
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
Especially in cases where people are taking prescriptions for medical conditions they have. Trial lawyer paradise for those situations.


Sure, and when you go to get your drug test, you show them the prescriptions from your doctors and they screen for those as well and they will not count against you during the drug test, that is a non issue.

A few years back I had to take a part time job at Walmart to make ends meet for a few months and had to do a drug test to work at Walmart. So I really do not see why some of you here have an issue with welfare recipients getting screened. They are not working for the money, and as others have said above, there should be more restrictions on who should receive welfare money or scrap the program completely.
 
lewis
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RE: Interstates 95 And 75 Will Be Jammed

Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 41):
Yes, I am sure it all those people not on welfare that are contributing to the alleged 9% drug users in Florida

Most people I saw smoking pot last time I was in Florida did not look like the welfare types.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 45):

In some states, they do use cards that can only purchase food.

How is that working out? I guess that the only problem, as someone mentioned, is for people to then sell the food for money and use it as they wish. Apart from that, can they get alcohol with those cards if a cashier "looks the other way"? How strict are the controls?

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