EMBQA
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Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:50 pm

So after fighting yet another windows 'bug' it's time to step up and go Mac. I've been looking at the Mac Mini and it looks to offer a lot of what I need. I have a great HD monitor and a brand new Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. Are there any Mac Mini owners out there..? Your thoughts..? How hard or easy is it to move my files over..? I'm sure iTunes will be easy, but what about pictures, favorites and email contacts..?

After I posted a previous blog came up about transfering, so I guess I guess I'll ask.. is it really just that easy..? I'm using Firfox and Thunderbird.

[Edited 2012-03-18 14:57:08]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
aloges
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Before I go to bed: you ought to tell people which software you use for e.g. e-mail so that they can give you specific advice.   Migrating all my Thunderbird stuff (e-mails, folders, contacts) was very easy, for example.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:01 pm

Not a Mac Mini owner, but I know a bit about it. It's a great product if you already have the "rest" of the computer. Moving files over should not be a big problem. There are detailed ways to do so online; It's not the most difficult thing to do. For browser favorites, if you use Chrome, for example, you can "log in" to any computer's version of Chrome and have everything ported over automatically. For emails, If you're using Outlook and want to port over into Mail, it's a bit more complicated; I've never had to do it, but I've heard it can be a bit of a pain. Again, a Google search should bring up some tutorials....

On the Mini itself, the biggest downside is the fact that it has not optical drive. If you want a sleek Apple drive, you need to shell out an additional $70 for a SuperDrive.

Since you're porting from Windows to Apple, I'd recommend taking a look into Parallels Desktop- any Intel Mac can run Windows, but you need shut the computer off and turn it on using the OS you want. With Parallels, there is no need to turn anything off- you can run both systems at the same time. It may be useful if there are programs you want to use that won't work on a Mac- like FS, for example, or Outlook (which I hate) if you can't port your stuff over into Mail.
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Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:36 pm

Apple is just about to start the transition of their Mac lineup to the new Ivy Bridge Intel platform, likely introducing USB3 in the process in addition to the already present Thunderbolt. Unfortunately the mini is likely to be the last to make that transition, so for several months the mini will still be the old (outgoing) model.

The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

You'll generally fare best by either getting a used or refurbished one cheaper now or by waiting for the new model – that will give you the best value overall.

There are quite a few tutorial videos on the Apple site. Some of them may be interesting for you: http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Apple is just about to start the transition of their Mac lineup to the new Ivy Bridge Intel platform

Ah yes. I'm particularly exited for the new MacBook Pro; my MacBook is quite old and in need of replacement. I've been hearing sometime in the next month they may announce the new ones... We shall see. For me, the earlier, the better.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
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yowza
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

YOWza
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:09 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):
Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

Nothing solid, but Apple tends to do the MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs early in the cycle. There are rumors about production already being started for the new models, but this is still serious tea leaves business…!   

The Mac Pro should not take too long either, since the new Xeons have just become available, unless Apple should decide to drop it from the lineup (which many people seem to expect, but I don't see that happening).

I have no solid information about these things right now; These are just rumors and deductions from public information so far.
 
Flighty
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):

Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

That will definitely happen this year. Look for the screen bezels to go way out to the edge of the chassis. Way more pixels. They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

If you can wait till later in 2012, there will be some very appealing mac portables. Probably the sleekest full functioning workstations ever done by anybody.
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

Not really. They will probably add a 15" Air and they will certainly ditch the optical drive (which is increasingly pointless) from the Pro sooner rather than later, but CPU and graphics power can't be pushed in an Air form factor; The same is true for large storage.

The MacBook Pro is very profitable and it still is a strategic product, so I would be very surprised if they dropped it. This has been "predicted" since the days the iPod first became successful, but it has never happened, and I very much doubt it will now.

The difference between what can be done in an Air and what is needed for a Pro is still far too big.

Without the optical drive the Pro will probably become more similar to the Air (which would be ergonomically positive), but I'm almost certain that the Pro will remain a separate product line.
 
Flighty
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
Without the optical drive the Pro will probably become more similar to the Air (which would be ergonomically positive), but I'm almost certain that the Pro will remain a separate product line.

Until this moment I have agreed with this analysis, but I think indeed the Air can be about equal to the current Pro (or better) without the form factor. The two needs for Pro enclosure are optical and hard drive. Once Apple ditches the 2.5 inch hard drive, there is no need for the "pro" enclosure anymore. The 13" Air currently sold has a 4 core Intel i5, which is the near equal of the Pro product. My elderly dad has the current Air model. It is the equal of my 13" Pro in every way (in fact it is faster, and has more screen) and has nearly the same amount of storage. But, the Air was at least $1000 more money, so, there is that.

We'll see, won't we?

 
 
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yowza
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
I have no solid information about these things right now; These are just rumors and deductions from public information so far.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
That will definitely happen this year. Look for the screen bezels to go way out to the edge of the chassis. Way more pixels. They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

If you can wait till later in 2012, there will be some very appealing mac portables. Probably the sleekest full functioning workstations ever done by anybody.

Cheers.

I'm looking at getting an Air for the second time. I had the original Air for a couple days and hated it. I'm willing to give it a second just so that I can hammer out some iPhone apps.

YOWza
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:00 pm

I just transitioned our home laptop form a POS Samsung to a MacBook Pro, it was easy, no complaints so far, once you go Mac it's really easy to be sucked into the whole system, we already had several iPods, my wife has an iPhone 4G, an iPad, my work has just moved everyone over to iPhone 4Gs, everything's all nicely linked, it would be very hard to move back to a PC.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:31 am

Well to update all.. I took the leap Sunday night. I ordered a Mac Mini and it has arrived already. I guess they have a warehouse right here in Nashville. I bought the 'One on One' service, so I'll run it down to the Apple Store and have them move my data over. I also picked up the iPad 3 and should see that in a few days
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
N243NW
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I took the leap Sunday night.

I wish you all the best! I've only owned a few pieces of Apple hardware but I've had only terrific experiences from it all. In fact, I'm typing this on my 5 1/2-year-old MacBook that's still running strong. Sure, it's slow by today's standards, but it's still remarkably capable for its age.

I was originally going to wait for this thing to finally croak, but if it doesn't happen in a couple months I may be shelling out for a new MacBook Pro anyway. Sounds like the new generation is pretty close to being released.
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joffie
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:24 am

I want to get a macbook air, but should I wait for a month or so until they update them? They usually keep the price like the ipad.. ohh, I got the new ipad and enjoy it!
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
The two needs for Pro enclosure are optical and hard drive. Once Apple ditches the 2.5 inch hard drive, there is no need for the "pro" enclosure anymore.

No, these are not the only reasons.

The MacBook Pro 13" is not a "true" MacBook Pro in this sense, but the 15" and 17" models have much bigger CPU variants which require a lot more battery power, generate a lot more heat and thus require much better cooling. In addition, these machines have dedicated graphics processors which provide a lot more graphics power than the integrated graphics in the Airs and in the 13" MBP. Among other things, you can connect dual Thunderbolt Displays to them in addition to the internal display for a total of three individual screens at the same time.

So the "real" MBPs (15" and 17") need much bigger batteries, much better cooling, more space for the discrete graphics processor and its graphics memory plus an additional fan cooling it, and that on top of the mechanical harddisk which is needed for the large amounts of storage which are not practical with SSDs yet.

So while kicking out the large optical drive will probably allow them to change the MacBook Pros in the direction of the Airs (particularly making them thinner at the front so they get more pleasant to type on), they will probably still retain the harddisk, they will still need the space and the battery for the dedicated graphics processor and the battery and cooling for the faster CPU.

The new Ivy Bridge processor line is supposed to be more efficient, but that means primarily that they can get more performance out of the same amount of battery power.

The Airs still sacrifice the big harddisk, the discrete GPU and the bigger CPU for lower weight and a more compact form. But for quite a few people, these features are still important. It is a strategically important and very lucrative segment for Apple. So I don't see them dropping it.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
The 13" Air currently sold has a 4 core Intel i5, which is the near equal of the Pro product.

No, all Airs have dual-core CPUs; The MacBook Pro 13" (which effectively is a MacBook Air with an optical drive, a harddisk and a few more ports) also has only dual-cores, but it is also available with a dual-core i7 which has hyperthreading, adding two more virtual cores which effectively bring only a fractional increase in performance, however.

Only the MacBook Pro 15" and 17" have true quad-core i7 CPUs (plus hyperthreading for eight virtual cores in total).

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Well to update all.. I took the leap Sunday night. I ordered a Mac Mini and it has arrived already. I guess they have a warehouse right here in Nashville.

Congratulations – I hope all is going well. You'll certainly need to take a bit of time adjusting to it all. Many things are a bit different at first than you might be used to. Take your time and always try doing things the way they ought to work – in most cases, that's how they do.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I bought the 'One on One' service, so I'll run it down to the Apple Store and have them move my data over.

Good idea!

Quoting joffie (Reply 14):
I want to get a macbook air, but should I wait for a month or so until they update them? They usually keep the price like the ipad..

Yes. You should wait if you can. The Air is probably one of the first models to get the new CPUs, so it shouldn't be too long.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I also picked up the iPad 3 and should see that in a few days
Quoting joffie (Reply 14):
ohh, I got the new ipad and enjoy it!

Nice, isn't it? 
Particularly with Retina-resolution apps starting to come out (check out Pinball HD Collection – stunning!).
 
swissy
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
I just transitioned our home laptop form a POS Samsung to a MacBook Pro, it was easy, no complaints so far, once you go Mac it's really easy to be sucked into the whole system, we already had several iPods, my wife has an iPhone 4G, an iPad, my work has just moved everyone over to iPhone 4Gs, everything's all nicely linked, it would be very hard to move back to a PC.

I am going that route too   it's all my wife's (and Klaus'es) fault !!!LOL

Her IPad 3, (her mommy's day gift) should arrive today @ our house... what is really fantastic is how everything is linked and easy to use. She has no issues with her IPhone, she does all setups/updates without bugging me. So we see how everything will be linked with her phone and Ipad... and I might consider a laptop from Apple.... down the road ...

Cheerios! and thanks Klaus 
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting swissy (Reply 16):
I am going that route too it's all my wife's (and Klaus'es) fault !!!LOL

Hey, I didn't force you at gunpoint, did I?
 
Quoting swissy (Reply 16):
Cheerios! and thanks Klaus 

You're welcome. Glad to help.  
 
swissy
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

Hey, I didn't force you at gunpoint, did I?

No gun, just flowers   LOL, but you have facts , I had many years of frustrations because my wife just did not like any "gadgets" like smart phones, tablets or computers.....
Just remember all!! A happy wife a happy life  
Sure Apple is not perfect by any means   Klaus, but it is a product that just works well for people in general and is very well build easy to use right out of the box. I always was a MS guy (worked for them also for 2 years in the 90's) but I am at the point were I seriously consider a laptop form Apple   just don't tell Bill  

We also have to understand/accept Apple is today not what it was back in the 80's or early 90's... I am very happy with my IPhone over all sure there is stuff that was better on my BB..but hey it works both ways  


Cheerios
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting swissy (Reply 18):
Sure Apple is not perfect by any means   Klaus, but it is a product that just works well for people in general and is very well build easy to use right out of the box.

Exactly!

Quoting swissy (Reply 18):
I always was a MS guy (worked for them also for 2 years in the 90's) but I am at the point were I seriously consider a laptop form Apple   just don't tell Bill  

Oh, there have always been rumours of Bill being a closet Mac user himself…!   
 
goboeing
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:22 am

I cannot recommend switching to the Mac side.

It has been the single worst purchase of any piece of equipment I have ever made.

It does the exact same thing as counterparts that cost hundreds of dollars less.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Oh, there have always been rumours of Bill being a closet Mac user himself…!

Bill probably has a secret room full of Apple products in his wee house.
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 20):
I cannot recommend switching to the Mac side.

It has been the single worst purchase of any piece of equipment I have ever made.

By far most people who make the switch have a completely different experience.

You'd need to elaborate why your experience had been so horrible and why it applies to everybody in general in your view – if you're not just trolling. The way your post is thrown in here leaves that possibility to be quite plausible, so please explain.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:08 pm

Apple products are generally good pieces of kit no doubt, and I would never say bad against anyone who decided to go down that route.

Personally, whilst we have iPads, iPhones and iPods galore in this household, none of us could ever get our head around the Macbook and what it was supposed to offer over an equivalent PC. I know the price gets mentioned a lot, but an equivalent PC/laptop was always much, much cheaper in every single case. Until Apple decides to market their computing products at a reasonable price, then we shall refrain from purchasing them again.

As I say, we have nearly every other Apple product going so don't think I'm bashing the company by any means. I enjoy what their other products do, and I've not had a single problem to date. A friend of mine whilst exaggerating, claimed that the price of Macbooks are so high it's basically legal extortion.

An exaggeration indeed but even the most hardened Apple supporter should be able to see where he is coming from with that.
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BigMac
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
You'd need to elaborate why your experience had been so horrible and why it applies to everybody in general in your view – if you're not just trolling. The way your post is thrown in here leaves that possibility to be quite plausible, so please explain.

You forgot to quote GoBoeing's third line: "It does the exact same thing as counterparts that cost hundreds of dollars less.
"
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.  
To fly, or not to fly: that is the question
 
aloges
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:50 am

Quoting BigMac (Reply 25):
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.

It is still not true. The Mac gives you more OS options, comes with more software and cheaper OS upgrades, customer service that has again and again been rated excellent, long-time support and, if its a MacBook, it comes with a sturdy metal case that would drive up the price of any Windows-based laptop, too.

My MBP is over three years old. And yet, it is still fully supported, it runs the latest version of OS X beautifully, there are no driver problems and it still does every single thing I want it to do... OK, except function with my old and cheap HP laser printer, but that's because HP never published an OS X driver for it and I didn't bother with the workaround that other people with the same problem published.

So yes, while it is a walled garden and not perfect either, I have never once regretted a single penny that I spent on this laptop. Which is a lot more than I can say for every single Windows PC that I've ever owned.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
mt99
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 24):
. I know the price gets mentioned a lot, but an equivalent PC/laptop was always much, much cheaper in every single case. Until Apple decides to market their computing products at a reasonable price, then we shall refrain from purchasing them again.

To me this lower price get thrown out the window (no pun inteneded) by the fact that in the 3.5-4 years that i have had my MacBook Pro, i have never, not once had the computer crash or had to force a re-start. Individual programs have rarely crashed - but a complete system shutdown, - not once. An even after the single program crashed, the rest of what was running was not affected, and the program that failed was able to restart again in seconds.

In the mean time, i have gone thru 2 laptops at work (Sony and Lenovo).
Step into my office, baby
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting BigMac (Reply 25):
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.

…as long as you're willing to overlook half of the relevant qualities (or lack thereof) in the respective products.

You can certainly pick a small number of features from any Mac and get a PC having just those quite a bit cheaper. But it's ultimately a "you pay less, you get less" affair.

The more of the Mac's features you're trying to add to the PC, the more you approach the Mac's price as well, not rarely surpassing it or ending up without a product on the PC side at all.

If you want illustration, just look at the terminally sad attempts to mimic the MacBook Air with what Intel calls "Ultrabooks" (and even subsidizes for the manufacturers!). Almost all of them are outright horrible and near-unusable, even with all the goodwill PC-aligned journalists can muster; Hardly any even approach the MacBook Air in quality and those that do have major trouble undercutting it on price.

The truth of the matter is that Apple's prices are pretty much in line with or even below those of other manufacturers – just vis-á-vis the professional-quality products at the upper end of the PC lineups.

They leave the cheap and crappy mass segment entirely to the competition (who make little or nothing on it to the point where "crapware" they foist on their users provides their only profits in many cases).

If you're looking for that kind of thing, a PC is your only option, indeed. More and more people are just sick of that by now, and that trend is further accelerating.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
You can certainly pick a small number of features from any Mac and get a PC having just those quite a bit cheaper. But it's ultimately a "you pay less, you get less" affair.

The more of the Mac's features you're trying to add to the PC, the more you approach the Mac's price as well, not rarely surpassing it or ending up without a product on the PC side at all.

Well I would dispute that.

I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.
I like Apple products, but to state that an equivalent PC with the same parts would be a similar price is sheer ignorance.
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Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.

Not that easily done, given that Apple covers the available performance envelope pretty much to the top. (Relevant detail: MacBooks generally provide full performance running on battery as well, not just when the charger is connected.)

And then you'd still miss most of the respective MacBook's other features. Once you're (mostly) done, look at the price again.

You'll be where the Mac's price is, or above.

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I like Apple products, but to state that an equivalent PC with the same parts would be a similar price is sheer ignorance.

I'll have to give that right back to you.

Take any Mac at apple.com (even considering that all of them are outgoing models on their last legs) and try to match it – all of it, or at least as closely as possible, not just picking two or three of its base features and ignoring the rest.

CPU, GPU, display, connectivity, build quality, weight, volume, component quality, support and more all need to be matched as evenly as possible, while still maintaining the difference in pricing you're so convinced of.

No skimping on quality or quantity! No "yeah, but I don't care about that feature" excuses!

This is a lot harder in actual reality than "everybody knows".

[Edited 2012-03-23 20:00:43]
 
BigMac
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:17 am

Earth to everyone who still think a Mac is not more expensive than a PC... Please come back to earth...  
A $800 15" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1800 15" Mac laptop...
A $600 13" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1200 13" Mac laptop...
And no, a PC laptop made out of plastic will not crack when you use it or the keys aren't going to fly off when you type on it (etc, etc, etc). But yes, a plastic PC laptop may creak or flex compared to a metal Mac laptop... or a Mac laptop can look better than a PC laptop...
And no, Windows 7 is not a bad operating system... It's a great operating system (just like Mac OS X).

What do most people use their PC or Mac for? It's probably work or study related (reading, word processing, emailing, accounting, etc), followed by internet browsing (including using Facebook, Youtube, etc), followed by multimedia stuff (listening to music or watching a movie, etc).
So if I want to buy a 15" Mac laptop I'll have to pay $1800 and if I want a 15" PC laptop I could pay $800 (there are cheaper 15" PC laptops as well).
And yes, an $800 Dell XPS 15" PC laptop (and even a cheaper $600 15" PC laptop) will be more than sufficient to perform the tasks I need it for (like most people).
So again, you will pay more for a Mac than a PC...
I do understand that buying any product is always a personal preference; I'm not saying people shouldn't buy a Mac because they are more expensive...
To fly, or not to fly: that is the question
 
aloges
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
A $800 15" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1800 15" Mac laptop...

A $1900 15" PC laptop is more expensive than an $1800 15" Mac laptop. Either purchase can make more sense than the other and it depends entirely on the customer's needs, wishes and budget. Apple simply doesn't do cheap laptops, so if you want one, you need to go elsewhere.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Klaus
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RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
And yes, an $800 Dell XPS 15" PC laptop (and even a cheaper $600 15" PC laptop) will be more than sufficient to perform the tasks I need it for (like most people).

That is perfectly possible, and such a decision is perfectly valid. That's really not up for debate.

But then, why isn't everybody driving around in Dacias? They're pretty much the cheapest cars you can get, and they would suffice for most people's transport needs as well! You could probably get cheaper clothes as well, cheaper food, live in a cheaper flat… So why don't you?

The only thing debated here is the claim that a cheap PC and the closest Mac were completely equivalent, except for the price. And I think nobody who actually looked at both with open eyes side by side would really come to such a conclusion.

It's your decision whether the difference in features and in quality is worth the difference in sticker price for you. But that is a very different thing from the claim made above of Apple allegedly just gouging their customers on "equivalent" products.

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
So again, you will pay more for a Mac than a PC...

When you're content with a low-quality machine, then you can get that only as a PC, since Apple has nothing on offer in the low-quality segment.

When you're looking at the higher quality levels Apple does have on offer, the equivalent PCs there cost comparable prices to the Mac.

Macs are not more expensive per se, Apple has just chosen to keep completely out of the low-quality, low-price segment, so that PCs are all you can get if that's what you're looking for.

In the high-quality segment they're actually very competitive and in many cases the Macs are even the most affordable machines in their class, which is one of the reasons why they're increasingly taking over that segment, leaving only the low-quality and server segments to the competition and putting the squeeze on their margins (just look at the balance sheets of Dell, HP, Lenovo…).

An increasing number of users is by now coming to the conclusion that cheap sticker prices are not as great a deal over the long haul as "common wisdom" would suggest. Apple's Mac sales have consistently been growing much faster than the PC market for quite a few years by now. Why is that?

Total cost of ownership can actually be lower for a higher-priced and higher-quality machine (better longevity and reliability, longer usability until it needs to be replaced, better support, better resale value, …). And then there's user satisfaction, which is substantially higher for Macs than it is for PCs.

So in short: You pay more, you get more.

It's still your own free decision, but when you're exclusively looking at the sticker price, you may not actually be getting the best deal in the end.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

The more I think about it the more I can't see a reason why Apple cannot release upgraded models within a short period of time. The MBP & Air at the same time, with the iMac & mini within a fortnight. Or at the same time.

When you thin about it, how much new engineering will Apple need for the consumer ranges? And how many engineers do they have?

I don't see that much engineering needed on the mini & desktop - it is reasonable to assume that the majority of the work has been completed as Apple has had sample chips from Intel for a long time.

But maybe my optimism for a quick release of a new iMac is based on my desire to buy one.  
Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.

Then buy PC. Get what you want - we won't put you down for buying something else. Just don't try to put us down because we make a different decision than you do.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
The more I think about it the more I can't see a reason why Apple cannot release upgraded models within a short period of time. The MBP & Air at the same time, with the iMac & mini within a fortnight. Or at the same time.

When you thin about it, how much new engineering will Apple need for the consumer ranges? And how many engineers do they have?

Engineering is probably not the primary bottleneck indeed.

But component availability and manufacturing resources most likely are.

Each major Apple product presentation is usually followed by a major spike in initial (and often pent-up) demand, and the large sales numbers following from that don't come from thin air. They need to stagger these releases so their contract manufacturers are actually able to build enough of each product. It would be incredibly expensive and wasteful to build up gigantic capacities for such multi-launches and then to shut down most of them when demand returned to normal on all of these product lines simultaneously.

That kind of issue propagates to their suppliers as well, many of which would probably be unable to satisfy demand as well.

Intel as one of them has similar issues: Their production lines need to be ramped up in sequence, and they decide very deliberately (and likely in coordination with their main customers) which CPU models will be made available in what sequence and in what numbers to whom.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
But maybe my optimism for a quick release of a new iMac is based on my desire to buy one.

Unsurprisingly…!   
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):
It would be incredibly expensive and wasteful to build up gigantic capacities for such multi-launches and then to shut down most of them when demand returned to normal on all of these product lines simultaneously.

I would agree if we were talking about a normal PC OEM.

Apple has certainly turned into a more aggressive company as the cash flow is built up. They have been willing to spend billions on pre-parment of components, financing increased production capacity for component suppliers, and major investments in equipment when needed. (The machining for the MacBooks and iPads is a good example of new equipment investments.)

In other words, Apple will spend the money to finance major new product releases. And so will their partners.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
In other words, Apple will spend the money to finance major new product releases. And so will their partners.

Sure they will, but what would be the actual advantage for them in multiple new models competing for attention in one single mega-launch when adding the logistical nightmare on top of that?

It would reach from supply through manufacturing to shipping and retail right up to customer support. One single major launch like the iPad one is already putting substantial strain on all systems.

And then there would be the massive impact at the stock market, not least when the severe trough would inevitably follow the initial launch tsunami.

I don't think it would even be doable without massive disruptions, wasting of resources and lots of very unhappy customers; And I don't see real advantages in it either.

The staggered approach maximizes market impact for each product, evens out the strain on all logistical levels and keeps (internal) disruptions to a minimum.

I can see why they'll most likely stay that course.
 
Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:32 am

I don't know where to start ! Macs Vs PC's ?

I wonder how many of the "PC's are just as good as Macs" crowd have ever been in an Apple Store ?

I was in the Apple Store in Indianapolis, Ind. today; between parking the car, and getting to the Apple Store, I saw about 5 new 26" iMacs on there way out to people's cars; You may think Apple products are "too high priced", and I won't even argue with you; But just don't bet any money that Apple is having any problem selling what it makes..........because you will LOSE your money in a flash !

I took my old 20" iMac in to have it "looked at" by the genius bar; thing's having some kind of problem with the display; it took the young kid about 3 minutes to hook it up to a keyboard, get into "system preferences", and get it running like new again. But hey..........even though it has served me faithfully for over 8 yrs now, it's out-dated ! I need a new machine. I stopped by my bank in Brazil and transferred 2 K into my debit account, on my way to Indy, "just in case" I decided to pick up a new machine while I was at the Apple Store; After getting the old machine taken care of, I took yet another look at the new iMacs; what the hell, it's only money, and you sure can't "take it with you".........so I decided to take a new iMac home with me; give the kid my debit card, (where I had just added 2K to, about 2 hours before), and which already had a fair amount in it already...........and the card reader won't take my card ! I have Miss A call the bank, inquire, "wassamatter?" Can't spend my $$$$$$ ! They......."oh.....our computer won't "see" that 2K until tomorrow morning !"

Did I mention, it's only a 75 mile trip from my house, to the bank, then to the Apple Store in Indianapolis; In the morning, I'm going to "plan B"........back to the bank, only this time I'll put ther 2K in my pocket ! The only bad part is.....I had intended to leave the old machine at the Fruit Store, have them load everything into the new machine, and pick both of them up tomorrow; Now, unless I want to make two more round trips, (which I definitely do not), I'll have to transfer all the files myself; (kinda like having to change your own oil....)

Hey Klaus...........are you gonna be "around" tomorrow evening ? I may get stuck ! Probably not, bu who knows ?

BTW............I never could get a firm number on how many new computers "found new homes" at the Apple Store today;
Everyone I asked seemed to think it was between 50 and a 100; You may think Macs are "high", but it sure doesn't seem to be hurting their sales any !

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
JJJ
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
I wonder how many of the "PC's are just as good as Macs" crowd have ever been in an Apple Store ?

You'd be surprised.

I went from PC to Mac and back to PC again, my wife has a small design studio (4 people all in all) and after looking carefully at some options we went the PC route.

They use SolidWorks quite a lot and that's a PC-only software, and the rest of the programs all are available either in Mac or PC so it's better to pay for a single OS than keep switching all the time.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
Hey Klaus...........are you gonna be "around" tomorrow evening ? I may get stuck ! Probably not, bu who knows ?

From about this time tomorrow I'll be away for several hours, but before and probably for some hours after I will be around.

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
BTW............I never could get a firm number on how many new computers "found new homes" at the Apple Store today;
Everyone I asked seemed to think it was between 50 and a 100; You may think Macs are "high", but it sure doesn't seem to be hurting their sales any !

The Apple retail stores are said to be the most profitable stores around by a substantial margin relative to their floor space. They exceed high-end jewelers and other boutiques not least by moving merchandise at a much faster pace.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 38):
You'd be surprised.

I went from PC to Mac and back to PC again, my wife has a small design studio (4 people all in all) and after looking carefully at some options we went the PC route.

They use SolidWorks quite a lot and that's a PC-only software, and the rest of the programs all are available either in Mac or PC so it's better to pay for a single OS than keep switching all the time.

It's a Windows-only software, not a PC-only one, since Windows runs on Macs as well. Other developers like Autodesk (AutoCAD) have begun explicitly supporting the use of their Windows applications in virtual machines on the Mac already, before porting them directly to the Mac platform (Autodesk has already become successful on iOS).

That doesn't automatically mean that a Mac would in every single case be the ideal platform, just that percieved impossibilities have actually shrunk dramatically. Which indeed goes to the point of many people not really being up to date on the Mac platform.
 
JJJ
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Going PC To Mac

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
It's a Windows-only software, not a PC-only one, since Windows runs on Macs as well. Other developers like Autodesk (AutoCAD) have begun explicitly supporting the use of their Windows applications in virtual machines on the Mac already, before porting them directly to the Mac platform (Autodesk has already become successful on iOS).

That's not my point, you can also run an OS X on a PC via virtualbox. My point is not paying for an additional OS.

I still need to purchase a windows license if I want to run windows on a Mac.
 
Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
The Apple retail stores are said to be the most profitable stores around by a substantial margin relative to their floor space. They exceed high-end jewelers and other boutiques not least by moving merchandise at a much faster pace.

Klaus, have you been in Indianapolis in the last week or two ? I can't believe it............you're clear in Europe, but you hit the "nail" right on the "head" !

The Apple Store in Indy is very "adjacent" to where all the "rich folks" live; the shopping mall where Apple is, has a "Nordstroms" store on one end, and a "Saks 5th Ave" on the other; everything in between is HIGH END ! In fact, Arlene and I actually peeked in Nordstroms yesterday.............the place looked like a giant, high end ice cream store on a below zero day in January ! Not a customer in sight ! The marble hall ways in the whole mall are "empty" ! Every other store in the whole damn place looked empty; right next to Nordstroms, a local Fiat Dealer had rented an open front space, which must be 3 times the sq. ft. of the Apple Store; there were three new "mini" Fiats parked inside; I asked a guy working at a kiosk nearby what kind of "traffic" the Fiat place had; he told me that in the 3 months that it's been open, he's never noticed ANYONE step inside ! That didn't surprise me; Fiats never sold squat before when they were available here, and I'll be greatly surprised if that doesn't become even worse in the near future; Car sales are really slow; have been, will be; not enough people running around with anything in their pockets;

All except for the Apple Store; ( we went back again today; didn't bother with the damned debit card today.........just took a couple of "stacks" of $100 bills; (23 in all) Looks like I'll be destined to "get by" with USB 2 for "the duration"; the 27" iMacs are still just like they were when I first saw them last Thanksgiving; (and guess who knows absolutely NOTHING about what or when Apple is going to "do" anything ? (The guys who work at the Apple Store ! ) I managed to get there a couple hours earlier today; it was even more crowded than it was yesterday. It's kinda sad really; the places where people usually spend the most bucks, are the places that are hurting the most;

It's gonna seem kinda "strange" tomorrow, (if I get time to get the new iMac out of the big box it came in) from Jaguar to Lion, from 512 MB to 5 GB of RAM........from 160 GB to a TB of HD space.........I won't know how to act. I make a lot of 18" X 24" prints. (and some larger) now I'll be able to look at the whole thing without moving the sliders around !

Your prediction about the "upgrades" will probably happen about next week ! Oh well................................

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
Klaus, have you been in Indianapolis in the last week or two ?

Not that I know of.   

But I guess right at the moment there's still some added traffic due to the new iPad.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
All except for the Apple Store; ( we went back again today; didn't bother with the damned debit card today.........just took a couple of "stacks" of $100 bills; (23 in all) Looks like I'll be destined to "get by" with USB 2 for "the duration"; the 27" iMacs are still just like they were when I first saw them last Thanksgiving;
Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
Your prediction about the "upgrades" will probably happen about next week ! Oh well................................

I have no information or rumours about that. And if your priority is to get the new machine right now, you really shouldn't worry about that either. The current model is already plenty powerful and fast, and its high-speed Thunderbolt ports let you attach USB3 ports externally with an adapter anyway if you really want them (and when such adapters are available).

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
(and guess who knows absolutely NOTHING about what or when Apple is going to "do" anything ? (The guys who work at the Apple Store ! )

They are explicitly forbidden to even comment – let alone speculate – about potential future products and they are kept in the dark about them anyway. Which is probably a sound company policy. Apple rumours are abundant on the web anyway.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
It's gonna seem kinda "strange" tomorrow, (if I get time to get the new iMac out of the big box it came in) from Jaguar to Lion, from 512 MB to 5 GB of RAM........from 160 GB to a TB of HD space.........I won't know how to act.

That is quite a huge step up on all fronts, indeed.

Some of the vast amounts of added performance and storage has of course been invested into usability and new features, but it should feel like a very nice upgrade.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
I make a lot of 18" X 24" prints. (and some larger) now I'll be able to look at the whole thing without moving the sliders around !

It's effectively a 3.6 megapixel display, so you'll be able to see a lot more details in total view or a much bigger part of a photo when displaying it 1:1. Most digital cameras still have an even higher resolution, but the 27" display is a very big step up in resolution, but also in display quality (the old iMac would have a simpler TN-type TFT if I remember correctly, the new one a more advanced IPS-type like the iPad).

It can also be much brigher than the old one, since the backlight of an LCD ages by losing brightness over the years . If you didn't need to crank up the old one to maximum brightness, you can set the new one just to the same brightness, but if the old one wasn't bright enough any more, the new one should be again.
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:33 pm

I'm going to come along and crap all over this thread.

I've had Toshibas, Dells, Asus', and a Macbook.

Apart from the Toshiba (which was second hand and the motherboard needed replacing, other than that, worked perfectly), every single one of my laptops have worked perfectly.

My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I paid 900GBP/1000Eur/$1500 for that. Abused, you say? Ran it over with a truck, you say?

Didn't leave my bedroom once.

The Asus netbook (1215n) that i'm typing on right now has been more reliable, better built and half the price (less than, in fact).

I have an iPod, they're a great MP3 player. Until Apple lower their prices (or raise their craftsmanship) I won't be buying a Mac, which is a shame because OSX as an OS is awesome.
 
Braniff747SP
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:56 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I've never heard of this. If what you say is true, you could have taken it to the Apple store and they would have likely replaced it.

My MacBook has been in perfect working order through four years of very heavy use. A friend of mine bought a Compaq (he decided to be cheap) and it died in 4 months. Compaq sent him another, and that one died in about 9 months. He went out and bought a MacBook...
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months.

Hadn't the EU-wide 2-year warranty gone into effect by then? In any case, Apple would probably have agreed that the failure wasn't acceptable - my better half bought her white MacBook some four to five years ago and the specialised Apple retailer (they're called Gravis) replaced a sightly cracked bottom case as well as a broken hard disk at no charge quite some time after the purchase.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
Until Apple lower their prices (or raise their craftsmanship) I won't be buying a Mac, which is a shame because OSX as an OS is awesome.

My MacBook Pro, 38 months old, has been sat on (or something similar that managed to dent one of its corners), I've crammed it into already full suitcases and backpacks more times than I can mention, recently it somehow acquired a new dent right by the battery check button, when it's in my wheeled suitcase it bounces over cobblestones and kerbs... and yet, there are no cracks, no failures, no niggles, nothing. Even the battery is at 70% capacity after 858 load cycles so far. If you're not trolling just to "crap all over this thread", you got a defective unit and should have taken it in for a warranty repair.

[Edited 2012-03-28 14:08:10]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 44):
I've never heard of this. If what you say is true, you could have taken it to the Apple store and they would have likely replaced it.

It is, 100% - no word of a lie. I didn't realise at the time I could have had it replaced, I was only 16 at the time and wasn't so savvy on things like that.

Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
Hadn't the EU-wide 2-year warranty gone into effect by then? In any case, Apple would probably have agreed that the failure wasn't acceptable - my better half bought her white MacBook some four to five years ago and the specialised Apple retailer (they're called Gravis) replaced a sightly cracked bottom case as well as a broken hard disk at no charge quite some time after the purchase.

Not sure - see above. The build quality was shockingly bad on it and I'd spent so much on it that I didn't want to tell my dad it'd broken in case he thought I'd done it 
Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
My MacBook Pro, 38 months old, has been sat on (or something similar that managed to dent one of its corners), I've crammed it into already full suitcases and backpacks more times than I can mention, recently it somehow acquired a new dent right by the battery check button, when it's in my wheeled suitcase it bounces over cobblestones and kerbs... and yet, there are no cracks, no failures, no niggles, nothing. Even the battery is at 70% capacity after 858 load cycles so far. If you're not trolling just to "crap all over this thread", you got a defective unit and should have taken it in for a warranty repair.

Not a troll, not at all - not my style. I feel sort of short changed now that I sold it for a mere pittance in less than 12 months after buying.

I might reconsider when my financial situation is better (I'm a student) as I did like the operating system. I do want an iMac but if I had 1000GBP, I wouldn't be sat here using a 300GBP netbook  
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Then buy PC. Get what you want - we won't put you down for buying something else. Just don't try to put us down because we make a different decision than you do.

As I stated, I have purchased a number of different Apple products. I've had various iPods, iPhones and iPads. I am not an Apple hater by any means at all. My iPhone that I use right now has never let me down, and it's a brilliant piece of kit and I wouldn't change it for the world (no matter how much my close friends tell me Android is better).

Just as far as Macbooks go, whilst I find them to look stylish and appear to be well built....I believe them to be overpriced and I can get a Windows-based laptop for much less that will perform just as well.

This isn't me hating on Apple as I say, and I may drop the pennies on purchasing another Macbook if I find one to be reasonably priced compared to windows based laptops of a similar spec.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I paid 900GBP/1000Eur/$1500 for that. Abused, you say? Ran it over with a truck, you say?

No, I'd say it's a regular warranty issue. And a "lemon" of a machine very uncharacteristic for Apple if indeed there was no abusive treatment.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 46):
It is, 100% - no word of a lie. I didn't realise at the time I could have had it replaced, I was only 16 at the time and wasn't so savvy on things like that.

Quite strange that they would have billed you for it in any case – the production date of the machine is in their database. That it's under warranty should have been the first thing they would have noticed, since that is among the first things they usually check.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 46):
Not sure - see above. The build quality was shockingly bad on it and I'd spent so much on it that I didn't want to tell my dad it'd broken in case he thought I'd done it

Did you actually buy it from Apple directly or from a less reliable source? I've never, ever had any experience even remotely close to that with any Apple device (and I've bought a few, both Macs and mobile devices).

All of them were pristine and perfectly reliable (with one minor defect promptly fixed on warranty in one Mac).

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a used and pre-damaged machine. That would also explain why it wouldn't have been covered by the warranty any more.

It's not entirely impossible that you did in fact just get a particularly rare "lemon" and then on top of that encountered an incompetent service person at the Apple Store who failed to check your warranty status (was it an actual Apple Store?). But none of that is remotely representative for (or even just consistent with) build or service quality at Apple.
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: Going PC To Mac

Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 48):
Did you actually buy it from Apple directly or from a less reliable source? I've never, ever had any experience even remotely close to that with any Apple device (and I've bought a few, both Macs and mobile devices).
Quoting Klaus (Reply 48):
I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a used and pre-damaged machine. That would also explain why it wouldn't have been covered by the warranty any more.

I got it from www.apple.com/uk, it was brand new. I think it was just a dud - I didn't try to get it repaired because they'd shafted me on iPod repairs before. Nothing ventured...

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