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New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:49 pm

Interesting video:

http://money.cnn.com/video/pf/2012/0...pf-w-new-ford-police-cars.cnnmoney

Shows both the Taurus and Explorer based police vehicles.

Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?

Interesting statement that the suspension and engine tuning computers are tweaked for police use.

Is that a common thing nowadays?
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Francoflier
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:06 pm

Stand by for Superfly's hissyfit and apology of the crown vic and everything that has a V8, a rigid transaxle, a body-on-frame and possibly wood panels.

  
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?


Considering that Ford's modern V-6 engines have more horsepower than the 4.6 V-8, I would say so .

The regular 3.5 V-6 has 265 and the ecoboost has 365 horse power and that isn't the police model. I assume the police models will deliver more power.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2012-ford-police-interceptor-car-news

The 4.6 liter V-8 only had 250 horsepower in its police form.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2011fleetshowroom/2011-CrVicPoliceInt-specs.asp?EV=0
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Stand by for Superfly's hissyfit and apology of the crown vic and everything that has a V8, a rigid transaxle, a body-on-frame and possibly wood panels.

I agree with the Fly. I own a 2008 Lincoln Town Car and used to have a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
Considering that Ford's modern V-6 engines have more horsepower than the 4.6 V-8, I would say so .

Cool! Thanks for the info!
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desertjets
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?

Interesting statement that the suspension and engine tuning computers are tweaked for police use.

Is that a common thing nowadays?

The CVPI was never a fast car. And police work isn't all high speed pursuit either. That said the V6 powered Taurus is more powerful and likely quicker than the old CVPI. On the old Crown Vic production lines they did a special run once or twice a year when they cranked out the CVPIs, since the P71 package had specific modifications that couldn't be easily done in line with the civilian production cars.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Stand by for Superfly's hissyfit and apology of the crown vic and everything that has a V8, a rigid transaxle, a body-on-frame and possibly wood panels.

I had a 2011 Crown Vic as a rental last fall while my car was in the shop getting its timing belt replaced. The car is completely anachronistic and outdated. But I totally get the appeal, however I wouldn't want one for my daily. The reason that Police (and fleet/taxi) liked the CV was because it hadn't changed in basically forever -- the last major update was around 2002 or 03. It was a known quantity and cheap to buy and maintain. And it didn't help that most competing vehicles, the W-body based Impala, the Tahoe and the Charger, weren't all that great of a choice or expensive (I do love the police package Tahoe). I fully suspect Ford will still capture the lion's share of the police market with the Taurus based cruiser -- Ford knows the market the best and will do what it can to ensure the confidence of the police departments that buy from it.
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BMI727
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?

Yes, considering that the Crown Vic was never powerful and very porky.

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Is that a common thing nowadays?

Police cars have pretty much always had additional cooling and heavier duty suspensions, not unlike a towing package. Some car companies used to have the police package available to normal buyers, which could boost performance though sometimes at a cost of style and creature comforts.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:54 pm

The first time I went to Laguna Seca, my dad and I rented a Crown Vic. We were shooting for a rented Corvette, but there weren't any available. Anyway, it was antiquated even in 2005, but there was a certain appeal- thing was gigantic and rode nicely. Plus, through the first two seconds of acceleration I could almost hear a V-8 rumble and feel like I was A Big Deal. Then the transmission whine would kick in and it just felt like I was in a New York City cab. Which I was.
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:13 pm

I ran across this interesting link:

The Great Police Car Thread. Crown Vic Replacement (by LOT767-300ER Mar 15 2010 in Non Aviation)

Quoting desertjets (Reply 5):
The CVPI was never a fast car. And police work isn't all high speed pursuit either.

I guess I've watched too many episodes of C*O*P*S! 

Come to think of it, though, I have noticed how the Crown Vic strained when in pursuits on that show.

And that show does show it isn't all pursuits, except when they do pursuit specials.

Quoting desertjets (Reply 5):

I had a 2011 Crown Vic as a rental last fall while my car was in the shop getting its timing belt replaced. The car is completely anachronistic and outdated. But I totally get the appeal, however I wouldn't want one for my daily.

Well said. I too understand the appeal but would not want to have it as a daily driver.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Police cars have pretty much always had additional cooling and heavier duty suspensions, not unlike a towing package.

Yeah, a friend of mine used to buy used police vehicles for this very reason.

I just didn't know the tweaking now extends to the computer software for the suspension and engines too, but it makes sense that it would.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 7):
The first time I went to Laguna Seca, my dad and I rented a Crown Vic. We were shooting for a rented Corvette, but there weren't any available. Anyway, it was antiquated even in 2005, but there was a certain appeal- thing was gigantic and rode nicely. Plus, through the first two seconds of acceleration I could almost hear a V-8 rumble and feel like I was A Big Deal. Then the transmission whine would kick in and it just felt like I was in a New York City cab.

I also ended up with a similar experience, but it was a big black rented Town Car in the mid 90s.

One additional nice aspect was that other drivers tended to make room for you because you were in a big car, which was nice since I was driving in the eternal traffic snafu that is the Washington DC area.

I was going to a wedding so I was dressed in a suit and a tie, so maybe other drivers thought there was someone important in back!  
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:24 pm

I still predict the Taurus Police Interceptor will flop and the Charger will become the new #1 police cruiser on the market. While the Taurus offers AWD, it is still an FWD-based platform.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?

As I understand it (and have been explained by a few cops), you don't catch bad guys with a V6, 8, 12, or GE90-115B. You catch them by radioing on ahead and setting up a roadblock in front of them. No car can outrun the speed of light.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:32 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
As I understand it (and have been explained by a few cops), you don't catch bad guys with a V6, 8, 12, or GE90-115B. You catch them by radioing on ahead and setting up a roadblock in front of them. No car can outrun the speed of light.


And there are not many that out run helicopters too. Besides for the odd stolen luxury car or crazy rich guy or wealthy drug dealer pursuit when is the last time anyone has seen a police chase involving a fast car?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I still predict the Taurus Police Interceptor will flop and the Charger will become the new #1 police cruiser on the market. While the Taurus offers AWD, it is still an FWD-based platform.


I have been noticing more and more Chargers for police all over the place. Right now I agree, we will see how this turns out for ford.

While talking about it, nothing beats out a Tahoe or suburban police car, especially a black on black tinted one with tons of lights hidden all over the car. Those are the best.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 12):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I still predict the Taurus Police Interceptor will flop and the Charger will become the new #1 police cruiser on the market. While the Taurus offers AWD, it is still an FWD-based platform.


I have been noticing more and more Chargers for police all over the place. Right now I agree, we will see how this turns out for ford.

I'd disagree. If the Charger was really going to steal the market share from Ford police departments wouldn't have stockpiled 2011 CVPIs. From what I've read over the interwebz is that the reliability and durability of the Charger is not so great. Though the 2011+ cars may be better. I think many people are making much ado about nothing over FWD. NYPD has been moving increasingly towards the 9C1 Impala and it is hard to picture an environment more punishing that the streets of NYC.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Both models shown are V6-based: is that enough umph to catch the bad guys?

As I understand it (and have been explained by a few cops), you don't catch bad guys with a V6, 8, 12, or GE90-115B. You catch them by radioing on ahead and setting up a roadblock in front of them. No car can outrun the speed of light.

On the speed thing. My city's police department bought 5 or 6 2010 Charger's with the Hemi for freeway patrol duty. I remember on the news the officers that drive them say the performance difference on the freeway when picking off speeders is like night and day between the Hemi Charger and CVPI. It also doesn't hurt that the Chargers are white, unmarked vehicles and don't have a light bar dragging in the breeze.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Old news.
There is a Revelation that we discussed this in great detail 2 years ago. So post #8

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Stand by for Superfly's hissyfit and apology of the crown vic and everything that has a V8, a rigid transaxle, a body-on-frame and possibly wood panels.

No cop cruisers had wood-grain side panels.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Old news.

Yeah, old news, but I thought the video was worth sharing.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
No cop cruisers had wood-grain side panels.

Yeah, but admit you wish they did...
 Big grin

[Edited 2012-03-23 15:24:37]
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:19 pm

I've seen quite a few Indiana State Police Chargers, and I'm convinced they have warp cores installed. I've never seen a vehicle short of something with a rocket go from stop to hauling @ss that fast. And from talking to a few Sheriffs Deputies, they all concur that the Charger is both faster and rides better than the Crown Vic. One went so far as to say that he was certain a CVPI couldn't catch him in a police Charger. And they look mean too. Now if the ISP would only have them in black...
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Interesting statement that the suspension and engine tuning computers are tweaked for police use.
Is that a common thing nowadays?

Nothing new...
It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks.

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 16):
I've seen quite a few Indiana State Police Chargers, and I'm convinced they have warp cores installed. I've never seen a vehicle short of something with a rocket go from stop to hauling @ss that fast.

I've been seeing more and more of them around Long Island - my county got a few for Highway Patrol duties, and yes, they do haul...and handle as well. One officer I was speaking with (at a car show, not on the side of the highway...) said they can go up and around exit ramps at speed the CVPI could never handle.

You don't want to see this in the mirror.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):
One officer I was speaking with (at a car show, not on the side of the highway...) said they can go up and around exit ramps at speed the CVPI could never handle.

It's good to know they abuse exit ramps too! 

All in the line of duty, of course!  

I have one here that has a right 90 degree turn followed by a bridge followed by a left 90 degree turn.

It's a great place to get a few jollies!

It'd be great if the highway engineers had put in some banking on the turns, but I guess that's too much to ask for!
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Ken777
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:44 am

These are better than the police cars I remember from my teens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/3707897160/

The ones in Tulsa were white.

If you really wanted to get a cop mad in those days you's ask him how he liked his "cute little police car".   
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 11):
I have been noticing more and more Chargers for police all over the place. Right now I agree, we will see how this turns out for ford.

Because the Impala isn't really all that great and with the CV being discontinued, a lot of departments went with the second best option. It'll be interesting to see how the Taurus and Explorers fare in daily use.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:31 am

What? These aren't good replacements for the CVPI?

http://api.ning.com/files/e6jgHPBDJ41dihUcln9OzOIdQA2oTH9Cd3kBRt6x6cwn8GS6g3PRjPOzf65god2akU0fHigl4Co96OwFGOJlfRWgy8nHXGgF/NYPD1.jpg

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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):
You don't want to see this in the mirror.

I don't mind seeing it in the mirror as long as the lights stay off.  
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 21):
These aren't good replacements for the CVPI?

The Smart car could be used for parking enforcement. I can't think of any better use for it.
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 21):

What? These aren't good replacements for the CVPI?

Superfly won't be responding because your post gave him a stroke.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 15):
Yeah, but admit you wish they did...

Duh.

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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:30 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Stand by for Superfly's hissyfit and apology of the crown vic and everything that has a V8, a rigid transaxle, a body-on-frame and possibly wood panels.

Not quite cop cars but close enough... I never understood why taxis in New York had big heavy V-8 engines in them. That is, of course, until the day I almost missed an inter-continental flight out of JFK and was lucky enough to get a crazy Bulgarian taxi driver in a Crown Vic. Let's just say if I had a Prius and a sane taxi driver I would never had made it in time for my flight...

Quoting falstaff (Reply 3):
I agree with the Fly. I own a 2008 Lincoln Town Car and used to have a 2000 Mercury Grand Marquis.

I actually do need a ride to the airport on Sunday night, how much do you charge?    
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
As I understand it (and have been explained by a few cops), you don't catch bad guys with a V6, 8, 12, or GE90-115B. You catch them by radioing on ahead and setting up a roadblock in front of them. No car can outrun the speed of light.

Or Onstar disabling a stolen vehicle from a satellite!!

At any rate, I am sure that Ford would be happy to sell public safety departments pursuit versions of the Ford Mustang GTs as a highway pursuit vehicle. California has some of these black Mustangs that I routinely see catching speeders on Interstate 10 near Indio and Blythe, CA.....
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:21 am

A lot of good videos on this site too...yes it's biased considering the source  http://www.ford.com/fordpoliceinterceptor/
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 15):
Yeah, but admit you wish they did...

Well of course.  
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 21):
What? These aren't good replacements for the CVPI?

Actually it would be great if those big cities with all of their anti-gun, anti-car polices had those kinds of police cars. It would be much easier to run from the cops! 
Quoting bohica (Reply 22):
The Smart car could be used for parking enforcement. I can't think of any better use for it.

Meter maids should be on foot. You know - lead by example....
It would be such an undesirable job that no one would have it, thus no parking tickets.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23):
Superfly won't be responding because your post gave him a stroke.

I was treated at UCSF two years ago when the last thread was posted about this.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting bohica (Reply 22):
The Smart car could be used for parking enforcement. I can't think of any better use for it.

That NYPD Smart car was a promotional thing Smart did in Europe, but the Prius is actually used for Traffic Enforcement - in fact, NYC operates a large fleet of hybrid and alternate fuel vehicles.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 26):
A lot of good videos on this site too...yes it's biased considering the source

Interesting, thanks!
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 5):
I fully suspect Ford will still capture the lion's share of the police market with the Taurus based cruiser -- Ford knows the market the best and will do what it can to ensure the confidence of the police departments that buy from it.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. One advantage the old CVPI that many here have overlooked was trunk space and cabin width (which translates to 60" of shoulder room). Many departments that utilized 2-man patrol operations likely chose the CVPI for that aspect ALONE.

With the Taurus-based PI, many of the interior and space advantages that the CVPI had over its competitors (excluding SUV/CUV models) are now essentially GONE. While the Taurus PI (TPI for short) has equal or better legroom than the CVPI; it does fall short cabin width & trunk space compared to its discontinued predecessor. Heck, several auto and comsumer magazines that reviewed and tested the 2010 and newer retail Taurus all commented that overall interior space was compromised when the car was revamped compared to its 2005-2009 (Five Hundred/Taurus) predecessor. Talk about a double-whammy.

Tidbit: the listed trunk capcity of the TPI is about 16 cubic ft. whereas the retail Taurus lists a trunk capcity of 20 cubic ft. (within a fraction of the Crown Vic/CVPI) and it's not because of a larger gas tank (the TPI & Taurus list identical fuel tank capacities). Anyone know the reason for the 4 cubic ft. discrepancy? This alone no longer guarantees that the Ford is necessarily a slam-dunk in the police car market.

Long story short, while Ford may have risen to the occassion in the performance department; in other ways it came DOWN to its competitors in the interior space & cargo space departments. On the positive, I will give Ford kudos for making its new Explorer (police model is called the Utility Interceptor) wide enough to achieve 61" of shoulder room.

If Dodge did indeed improve the reliability of its newer Chargers; things may have gotten a little tougher with Ford (and Chevy) in the police car market.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 8):
ran across this interesting link:

The Great Police Car Thread. Crown Vic Replacement (by LOT767-300ER Mar 15 2010 in Non Aviation)

What a difference 2 years make. Most of that older thread focused on 2 cars that were exclusively police vehicles for the North American market: the Carbon E7 & the Holden-based Caprice PPV.

2 years later, it appears that the E7 hasn't inched anywhere closer to production and there appears to be some complications w/the PPV in terms of vehicle deliveries (many law enforcement agencies are experiencing longer delivery delays w/the PPV) I commented on such in the concurrent Chevy/Holden thread.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
These are better than the police cars I remember from my teens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/autohis...7160/

From the above-web-link photo caption:

1961 Studebaker Lark Marshal Police Car Brochure
Choose the City Marshal with the 112 hp Skybolt Six, the Patrol Marshal with the 180 hp OHV V-8, or the 210 hp V-8 Pursuit Marshal. Available bodies were 2-door or 4-door sedans and station wagons on a 108.5" wheelbase, or the Heavy Duty (H.D.) Sedan on a 113" w.b.


The wheelbase of the H.D. sedan is actually LONGER than that of the TPI (112.9") and the Impala (110").

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
If you really wanted to get a cop mad in those days you's ask him how he liked his "cute little police car".

From what I've read (from the Coporal Ed Sanow publications on old ploice cars) cops weren't too crazy about the styling of the small (116" wheelbase) '62 Dodge Darts either.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 25):
I am sure that Ford would be happy to sell public safety departments pursuit versions of the Ford Mustang GTs as a highway pursuit vehicle. California has some of these black Mustangs that I routinely see catching speeders on Interstate 10 near Indio and Blythe, CA.....

Those are RETAIL Mustangs you're seeing being used for police duties. Ford hasn't offered police-packaged Mustangs since 1993.
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Kiwirob
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 24):
Let's just say if I had a Prius and a sane taxi driver I would never had made it in time for my flight...

I'm sure the Prius with a crazy taxi Bulgarian would have gotten you there just as quickly, the CV even with a V8 is dead slow, it's a massively underpowered car.
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:51 pm

I have driven both the Charger and the Impala cop car. And given the choice between a brand new one of thos as a Vic that has 140 000km I will be taking the crown vic. Mostly because it is the most comfortable for me. When you spend 11 hrs in a car comfort is everything.

Plus the crown vic was most popular not because it was best at anything. Bean counters love them because we could not wreck them mechanically and we abuse them so it was cheapest for them. Plus there was critical mass. I had a guy run into me and it was a write off as the car had 130k on it. Yet there are so many CVPI out there they got parts cheap and fixed it.

Oh and I have never chased any fast car. Most are stolen Neons or Corollas or civics.


We bought a bunch of the new Fords in all wheel drive so we shall see.
GS

[Edited 2012-03-24 08:53:10]
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 30):
Tidbit: the listed trunk capcity of the TPI is about 16 cubic ft. whereas the retail Taurus lists a trunk capcity of 20 cubic ft. (within a fraction of the Crown Vic/CVPI) and it's not because of a larger gas tank (the TPI & Taurus list identical fuel tank capacities). Anyone know the reason for the 4 cubic ft. discrepancy?

Ideally, it'd be taken up by a machine that produced oven-fresh donuts and hot black coffee! I'd be first in line to buy such a unit! 
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 30):
This alone no longer guarantees that the Ford is necessarily a slam-dunk in the police car market.

Being serious, why the big concern on trunk space? I've seen the open trunk of one of our local CV police cars, and it didn't seem chockablock full of stuff.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 30):
Long story short, while Ford may have risen to the occassion in the performance department; in other ways it came DOWN to its competitors in the interior space & cargo space departments.

Moving down to that size seems inevitable, no?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 30):
On the positive, I will give Ford kudos for making its new Explorer (police model is called the Utility Interceptor) wide enough to achieve 61" of shoulder room.

Any estimates on the costs of the two Ford units and their competitors?
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
the CV even with a V8 is dead slow, it's a massively underpowered car.

I take it you never drove a non turbo Mercedes-Benz.... Now those babies were slow. My 220D was the slowest car I ever drove with a factory 0-60mph time of 29 seconds. My Town Car and Grand Marquis could run circles around my 3 diesel MBs.

My Grand Marquis wasn't all that fast, but compared to the 1980s V-8 cars I had it was. It also had no problem pulling a trailer.

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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Being serious, why the big concern on trunk space? I've seen the open trunk of one of our local CV police cars, and it didn't seem chockablock full of stuff.

I believe the key word here would be AVAILABLE trunk space. Cops may not need to carry every piece of available equipment in the trunk 100% of the time per your statement but they certainly want the ability to do so should an assignment/duty warrant it and there isn't a spare vehicle available.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Moving down to that size seems inevitable, no?

Not to get political and off-topic, but just as the consequences the 2006 & 2008 elections ramped up CAFE standards (along with current & future downsizes); the results of this year's elections could very well alter that possible future.

[Edited 2012-03-24 11:02:41]
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 35):

I believe the key word here would be AVAILABLE trunk space. Cops may not need to carry every piece of available equipment in the trunk 100% of the time per your statement but they certainly want the ability to do so should an assignment/duty warrant it and there isn't a spare vehicle available.

Ok, available trunk space is indeed a good thing, but enough to cause the market to shift away from Ford?

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 35):

Not to get political and off-topic, but just as the consequences the 2006 & 2008 elections ramped up CAFE standards (along with current & future downsizes); the results of this year's elections could very well alter that possible future.

Not to get political and off-topic, but from what I see in my town, our nation's inability to address the cost of health care insurance is having a far bigger impact on our police force than is the drive to increase fuel mileage, which actually helps save the town money, and which has been underway since the Nixon/Ford era. I'd rather have a police officer driving a car somewhat smaller than desired rather than having no officer due to the need to cut budgets to pay for the ever increasing cost of health care insurance, which is what is happening these days.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Ok, available trunk space is indeed a good thing, but enough to cause the market to shift away from Ford?

In my earlier post, I also commented on CABIN WIDTH as well. The CVPI had the widest cabin out of the current crop of police cars as well.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
our nation's inability to address the cost of health care insurance is having a far bigger impact on our police force than is the drive to increase fuel mileage, which actually helps save the town money, and which has been underway since the Nixon/Ford era.

Several things:

1. While CAFE standards date back to the mid-70s, many police departments were indeed complaining & protesting the loss of available engine power/performance as a result of the vehicle downsizing that took place then. Many police-packaged vehicles from the late 70s through early 80s were among the slowest and sluggish in the industry to this day. That was one reason WHY police-packaged Mustangs & Camaros came into existence in the first place. The problem was these pony-car type vehicles LACKED prisoner space; something that might be needed even during a routine traffic stop. Police Mustangs and Camaros were viewed as enclosed motorcycles.

2. Prior to the 70s downsizing, many police departments indeed opted for mid (Torino/Malibu/Coronet) or compact (Nova) sized cars; but when the downisizing hit, most went right back to full-size cars (LTD/Impala/St. Regis) because most of the then-newly downsized mid-sizes and compacts were viewed as too small. When many of the mid-size models switched to FWD by the mid-80s; most departments stuck with full-sizes thorugh this day.

3. It was only when the CAFE standards STOPPED increasing (it held at 26-27.5 mpg after 1985), that automakers got a some breathing room and started placing beefier engines in their full-size sedans (particularly the Caprice of the mid-90s). Ford and Chevy ultimately decided to go ahead and update their full-sizes only AFTER the 1988 elections.

4. During the last 2 to 3 decades, many police departments started placing more after-market equipment in their vehicles. Gone are the days when the only 'extra' items in a police car were lights and a small under-dash CB radio. The extra equipment, while beneficial to the police officer(s), DO take up some of that interior space. If one makes a vehicle too small that CAN and WILL be an issue.

5. Not ONE of the current crop of police cars even averages 27.5 mpg (the old standard). Should future increases in CAFE proceed as planned, just about every car platform that's used for police packages will have to be downsized or discontinued along with an accompanying reduction in power in order to achieve better economy. Multi-speed tranmissions and Ford's Ecoboost can only go so far in terms of compensation.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
I'd rather have a police officer driving a car somewhat smaller

Easy for you to say, you don't work inside of a car 8 to 12 hours a day like many of these officers do. Again, these vehicles are their offices on wheels so to speak.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:15 am

If you want to turn this into a CAFE thread, please start another one....
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
If you want to turn this into a CAFE thread, please start another one....

Why? PHLBOS just told a great history lesson on police cars and their replacements based on CAFE standards. Now, as the new CAFE numbers are now being up'ed by this lost President and his Green administration, what makes you think that the new cars that will replace the Ford CVPI don't have anything to do with CAFE standards? As in the past, it will shape the future. Sorry you want to sweep these insane numbers under the rug, but it's a part of life. Live with it. Or next time vote for someone who has a clue.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
I'd rather have a police officer driving a car somewhat smaller

I'd rather have the police on foot patrol.  
They won't be able to issue me speeding tickets.  
Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
rather than having no officer due to the need to cut budgets to pay for the ever increasing cost of health care insurance, which is what is happening these days.

Repairing a Crown Victoria is a hell of a lot cheaper and less frequent than repairing a Volt or a Prius.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 40):
I'd rather have the police on foot patrol.
They won't be able to issue me speeding tickets.

You sure about that?  
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:26 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 39):
what makes you think that the new cars that will replace the Ford CVPI don't have anything to do with CAFE standards?

Because police are an incredibly powerful lobbying group, and no sane politician would not give public safety vehicles an exemption from CAFE standards should one be requested, and for that and other reasons, it's a trumped-up issue.

Now, since you enjoy going off-topic, do you want to discuss how your town is dealing with the ever increasing insurance costs for its public safety officers? Mine is responding by laying them off, how about yours?
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 34):
I take it you never drove a non turbo Mercedes-Benz.... Now those babies were slow. My 220D was the slowest car I ever drove with a factory 0-60mph time of 29 seconds.

And what year was your 220D, if it was a W123 it only had 60hp, so I don't get your point.
 
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
Because police are an incredibly powerful lobbying group,

Not when it comes to squad cars. The cops are a powerful lobbying group when it comes to taking away our freedoms, marijuana and guns.
Police cars make up less than 6% of the entire automobile market. Not strong enough to make an impact.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 30):
Tidbit: the listed trunk capcity of the TPI is about 16 cubic ft. whereas the retail Taurus lists a trunk capcity of 20 cubic ft. (within a fraction of the Crown Vic/CVPI) and it's not because of a larger gas tank (the TPI & Taurus list identical fuel tank capacities). Anyone know the reason for the 4 cubic ft. discrepancy? This alone no longer guarantees that the Ford is necessarily a slam-dunk in the police car market.

We just had the Ford demo one here(I work for a law enforcement agency). Looks like there is some added stiffening bars under the trunk mat and a full size spare, plus a sliding equipment rack installed under the rear deck. It even had a built in gun locker in the trunk.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Charger will become the new #1 police cruiser on the market.

The Chargers we have are pos, break a lot.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
bigger impact on our police force than is the drive to increase fuel mileage, which actually helps save the town money,

Patrol cars burn a lot just idling. Also going from standing still to full nuts catching speeders sucks the gas.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Being serious, why the big concern on trunk space? I've seen the open trunk of one of our local CV police cars, and it didn't seem chockablock full of stuff.

Come to where I work, some guys need a trailer. Between forms, shields, ammo, rain coats, vests, superior weapons, extra batteries, and so on, most trunks are stuffed.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Police cars have pretty much always had additional cooling and heavier duty suspensions

Yep.

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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
Now, since you enjoy going off-topic, do you want to discuss how your town is dealing with the ever increasing insurance costs for its public safety officers? Mine is responding by laying them off, how about yours?

well, to be honest, no one around here is laying anyone off when it comes to PD's. The last department around here that did was a small town (Coopertown, TN) that had a small sliver of I-24 run through it. They were writing tickets left and right until it was discovered they were breaking TN law. After A LOT of refunded tickets, no revenue= no pay. Had to lay off. All other areas are not cutting departments and in fact, Nashville has a shortage of officers. I guess you libs up there in the NE just know how to run governments better than us down here. Oh, wait....

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
Because police are an incredibly powerful lobbying group, and no sane politician would not give public safety vehicles an exemption from CAFE standards should one be requested, and for that and other reasons, it's a trumped-up issue.

Really? Really? Name one police vehicle currently being classified as "exempt" from CAFE standards that the " incredibly powerful lobbying group" has been able to stop. Hasn't happened and will not happen. No one is going to clean sheet design a car that is simply built for PD work. The closest thing to that ever happening is the new Caprice, and that was NOT a clean sheet design, it only was to fulfill a contract with Holden, and it's selling so poorly that they are now having to sell them as to the public to fulfill the contract. When the numbers are hit, the Caprice is done again.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:35 am

Quoting desertjets (Reply 5):

I had one of those last month in PWM. I wrote a ride report on FlyerTalk; it was certainly interesting to drive. It was very comfortable but I don't know how or why that would make a good police car. I guess because it really is a big, solid car.

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Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 16):
I've seen quite a few Indiana State Police Chargers, and I'm convinced they have warp cores installed.

LOL... when I was in Indiana in January I saw a red Mustang with lights and sirens... I slowed down VERY quickly when I saw someone else pulled over.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 17):

They're all over in Long Island! Every other car is a Charger these days so you always have to keep an eye out for them.

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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 37):
That was one reason WHY police-packaged Mustangs & Camaros came into existence in the first place.

That and the fact that they still used less fuel than large sedans. They ended up being a decent compromise between a motorcycle and a sluggish full size sedan. These days there it isn't really a necessary compromise though since a hemi Charger can do pretty much anything they would need a Mustang or Camaro to do. Even the Air Force has transitioned to Pontiac GTOs and G8s while NASA uses Chargers.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 45):
Come to where I work, some guys need a trailer. Between forms, shields, ammo, rain coats, vests, superior weapons, extra batteries, and so on, most trunks are stuffed.

...which is a big part of why we need police packages. A cruiser is going add on a couple hundred pounds before the driver is included.
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RE: New Ford Cop Cruisers Dethrone Crown Vic

Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:35 am

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 45):
Come to where I work, some guys need a trailer. Between forms, shields, ammo, rain coats, vests, superior weapons, extra batteries, and so on, most trunks are stuffed.

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