Airstud
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Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:28 pm

A couple in New Jersey is suing their landlord because the house they're renting is haunted.

It sounds like the stock haunted-house stuff; doors opening and closing on their own, voices, and also clothes flying around in the middle of the night (I have not heard of that one yet in the stock haunted house annals).

Let us, for discussion's sake, accept the premise that the house is truly downtown Spooksburg. Exactly what is the charge against the landlord? Within the scope of real estate law, what actions was he reasonably expected to take vis-à-vis the spookitude?
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BMI727
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:41 pm

Seems to me that a certain segment of the population would pay a premium to live in a haunted house.
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Cadet985
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:53 pm

They should get a paranormal investigation done on the property. Most paranormal groups that do investigations don't charge, and initially approach things from a scientific point of view, and don't start looking for ghosts until anything environmental or psychological can be ruled out.

I don't think haunting is covered in rental laws, but let's just say that the last occupants left for the same reason. Then I think the landlord should have told this couple of that before they signed, even if he isn't a believer.

Marc
 
planeguy727
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:08 am

I, for one, would love to own and live in a "haunted" house. However, finding one with a realtor is about impossible. No one will admit to having a property that's haunted.

As for the renters, my guess is that the landlord won't let them out of the lease. Based on what I know of rental agreements, etc., haunting does not have to be disclosed (can't be proven I suppose).

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Cadet985
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:29 am

I mean it also to me would depend on the level of paranormal activity. For example, in the house my dad, grandfather, and I share, my grandfather and I both believe there are spirits. Stuff goes missing, then shows up again somewhere else, we have a feeling of being watched, etc., but we don't hear voices, doors don't open, etc. I don't know if I would mention it to a buyer...I mean I consider myself a paranormal sensitive...and a lot of people would call me nuts.

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zippyjet
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:52 am

Maybe it's one of hippo Governor Chris Christies dearly departed porcine, manatee hippo loved ones.
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AR385
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 3):
I, for one, would love to own and live in a "haunted" house.

No, you wouldn´t really. I myself do not believe in this stuff, but have spent time in one of our famiy´s properties that dates back to 1821 and strange stuff happens. Stuff that I´ve witnessed. Maybe there is a rational explantion for it and I am sure there is, however, I have decided to never spend the night there. If anything, because it is too much stressful.
 
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Seems to me that a certain segment of the population would pay a premium to live in a haunted house.

My friend swears her house is haunted, but they just act as if the ghost is a wayward member of the family, almost like a pet. The ghost just does things like slamming doors and moving things around and occasionally showing up as an "orb" in photos (all phenomena that can have very rational explanations), and so she just takes it in stride that she has a ghost.

Quoth she: "At least I don't have a really bad ghost."
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BMI727
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 4):
I don't know if I would mention it to a buyer

If the potential buyer has a tattoos + piercings count of greater than 20, you're probably okay.
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
No, you wouldn´t really. I myself do not believe in this stuff, but have spent time in one of our famiy´s properties that dates back to 1821 and strange stuff happens.

  

Agreed. When a door slams open or shut it's a pain in the ass not knowing if there's really somebody there or not. We must have extreme drafts or something.


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usflyer msp
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:38 pm

That landlord needs to find some hardcore Pentecostal Christians to rent to. My holy-roller employee's church bought and renovated a old synagogue and they put on quite the show exorcising and casting the jew-spirits out of that building. If some of them moved into that house, the ghosts would be fleeing out of fear in no time...
 
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:45 pm

Weird. I thought you would de-haunt your property regularly, as a landlord... just like you regularly de-sproudle your twallops and de-qualt your smongs.
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TSS
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
My friend swears her house is haunted, but they just act as if the ghost is a wayward member of the family, almost like a pet. The ghost just does things like slamming doors and moving things around and occasionally showing up as an "orb" in photos (all phenomena that can have very rational explanations), and so she just takes it in stride that she has a ghost.

Quoth she: "At least I don't have a really bad ghost."

Which is exactly how I've dealt with "unexplained phenomena" of a possibly supernatural nature in various places I've lived including disembodied footsteps in an upstairs bedroom (which scared the bejeebers out of me, three roommates, and several guests when they were first heard, but after a while attracted no more attention than the cycling of the refrigerator in the kitchen) and objects disappearing for days or weeks only reappear exactly where they were supposed to be as if they had never been moved.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 10):
That landlord needs to find some hardcore Pentecostal Christians to rent to. My holy-roller employee's church bought and renovated a old synagogue and they put on quite the show exorcising and casting the jew-spirits out of that building. If some of them moved into that house, the ghosts would be fleeing out of fear in no time...

First off, I have serious doubts that a Pentecostal exorcism would have any effect on Jewish spirits, or vice-versa for that matter. Secondly, if you attempt a forcible ejection of spirits via exorcism you run the risk of seriously pi$$ing off said spirits and making them go from mildly mischievous to openly malevolent. In my opinion, it's better by far to make peace with whatever entities or unexplained phenomena your home or building exhibits and live in reasonable harmony with them going forward.
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planeguy727
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):

Based on the building I live in now, I'm the only one that doesn't slam every door. As a result, I doubt I would notice the difference. Plus I'm ok with clothes flying about, etc.

I respect the spirit's right to be there as much as I am. Or, perhaps, I just watch too much Being Human.
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aerorobnz
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:45 pm

A court should throw their asses to the kerb. Regardless of belief it is something you will not find in any tenancy agreement and that is the crux of it - No landlord should be responsible for something they have no way of measuring or controlling. Any amount of hocus pocus exorcism BS will not change anything at all. If they want a 'spirit free' house they should buy their own and then do whatever they want in it.
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:03 am

I live in a house that is approaching 100 years old (build 1917). The house does all sorts of stuff. Creaks, footsteps that could be from our house or could be from next door. Doors slam. It's drafty as hell. Sometimes, in dark rooms, the dogs will suddenly bark at corners.

I could blame it all on ghosts or I could just assume that there are rational explanations for all of these things. The footsteps are probably from the house next door (which is a "stand alone" building, but our walls are in contact), it's drafty, so doors slam all the time. And the dogs are sometimes just being stupid and barking at shadows or imagined movement out of the corners of their eyes.

Or I could blame a ghost.
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allrite
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:26 am

New Jersey isn't that far from New York. So I think we know who they're gonna call!

Pity that number 3 hasn't progressed very far. I'm sure they could do with some extra publicity.
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n229nw
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 2):
They should get a paranormal investigation done on the property. Most paranormal groups that do investigations don't charge, and initially approach things from a scientific point of view, and don't start looking for ghosts until anything environmental or psychological can be ruled out.

  

Yes, "from a scientific point of view," like the people who "scientifically prove" that the dinosaurs existed at the same time as early humans--by which I mean people who have no clue...

Since no one has ever been able to show any paranormal activity ever under real controlled conditions even with a 1 million dollar reward, it would be a hard case to prove. Seriously, can one sue one's landlord because hobbits live under the floorboards? What about the noisy unicorn in the closet? Actually, Zeus cursed the house and now Athena is running around naked in the garden causing the geraniums to be crushed.

If this case isn't thrown out on principle, there is no hope for society...
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stasisLAX
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:16 am

A landlord in Tucson has a haunted house and wonders what if the tenants want an "escape" clause in the lease?

Source: http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-b...ve-a-bad-encouter-with-the-ghosts/
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Cadet985
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 17):

Just because you don't believe in the paranormal is no excuse for you to mock those of us who do.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):

No, you wouldn´t really. I myself do not believe in this stuff, but have spent time in one of our famiy´s properties that dates back to 1821 and strange stuff happens. Stuff that I´ve witnessed. Maybe there is a rational explantion for it and I am sure there is, however, I have decided to never spend the night there. If anything, because it is too much stressful.

I don't get it. You "do not believe in this stuff" but you refuse to spend a night in a house where things happen for which you are sure there is a rational explanation?

That's kinda like someone saying they're not afraid of the number 13 but then refusing to sleep in a hotel room on the 13th floor of a building (which is hard enough in itself to find).

Now, I've never personally seen a ghost, nor do I know of any encounters with ghosts (though one time when I was 11, I was sitting in the living room of my dad's house reading or watching TV or something, and the window shade just wound itself all the way up without provocation...scared the ever-living snot out of me and I ran out of that room like a bat out of hell; come to think of it, maybe it was the ghost of a bat out of hell that hit the shade and caused it to roll up; do bats have spirits strong enough to do that? Can bats even go to hell? What would a bat have to do to...where was I? Oh, right...). However, I'm told my younger (half-)brother can see spirits. I've never talked to him about it, but I have heard a couple of stories, such as one where he was at our grandmother's house when he and his mother both saw a ghost. Later on, they told my grandmother about it and she pulled out an old family album, and he was able to identify the person they had seen.

As for me, I'd be happy enough if I could just see auras. Not that easy to do, apparently.

[Edited 2012-04-15 19:51:14]
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n229nw
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:58 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 19):
Just because you don't believe in the paranormal is no excuse for you to mock those of us who do.

People can believe anything they want, but they should not claim their beliefs are "scientific." I believe in complete freedom of religion, but I don't want Genesis to be taught in a "science" class. See the difference?

Quite honestly, a case such as this does raise some serious legal questions. The tenants can believe in the haunting, but where do their personal beliefs turn into a "reality" they can legally impose on others, such as the landlord?

What would honestly happen if someone tried to sue a landlord because of a noisy unicorn in the closet, and got some group to "scientifically" back up his claims? How would such as case work in court? Presumably, the case in court would actually come down to getting an actually controlled scientific experiment to do a second investigation and try to show there was no unicorn. Then the expenses would be charged back to the plaintiff. I assume the same thing would have to happen in this case.
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AR385
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:45 am

Quoting homsaR (Reply 20):
I don't get it. You "do not believe in this stuff" but you refuse to spend a night in a house where things happen for which you are sure there is a rational explanation?

Context much?

I wrote:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
If anything, because it is too much stressful.

Emphasis on "Stressful"

Along the lines of:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
Agreed. When a door slams open or shut it's a pain in the ass not knowing if there's really somebody there or not.
 
TSS
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
Quoting homsaR (Reply 20):
I don't get it. You "do not believe in this stuff" but you refuse to spend a night in a house where things happen for which you are sure there is a rational explanation?

Context much?

I wrote:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
If anything, because it is too much stressful.

Emphasis on "Stressful"

Along the lines of:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
Agreed. When a door slams open or shut it's a pain in the ass not knowing if there's really somebody there or not.

I understand exactly where AR385 is coming from. Going back to the disembodied footsteps that I and others heard, this occurred at a house that was in a not-very-good neighborhood and there was a reasonable chance that they could have been phenomena of the breaking-and-entering/home invasion variety being committed by an entity that was still very much alive and possibly dangerous. The first couple of times I heard them it was late at night and I was alone in the house, so I went to investigate the noises with a big stick held in strike position... just in case.
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AR385
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:31 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 23):
I understand exactly where AR385 is coming from.

Thank you. You explained things a lot better than I did.
 
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moo
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:15 am

So a "cruel" landlord won't take any action over something he doesn't believe in, and something that doesn't have any scientific backing despite years of investigations...

Somethings iffy here, and its not the ghost.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):

So, is it the potential rational explanation that's stressful, or the inability, despite your intense search, to actually find one?
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AR385
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting homsaR (Reply 26):
despite your intense search, to actually find one?

Sorry. I have not done any research, beyond some reading material. I´d rather leave it to:

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 2):
paranormal groups that do investigations don't charge, and initially approach things from a scientific point of view, and don't start looking for ghosts until anything environmental or psychological can be ruled out.

It is not my field of expertise, nor would I consider it serious. That is just my opinion, though.

As for your question, I´ve already explained that in reply 22. If it was too dense, reply 23 would probably help you understand the gist of it.
 
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting homsaR (Reply 26):
So, is it the potential rational explanation that's stressful, or the inability, despite your intense search, to actually find one?

I thought it was pretty obvious, it's neither of those suggestions. If I'm the only one in a house and a door opens/slams etc... then I don't give a monkey's whether there is a rational or paranormal explanation for it. All I am thinking is 'who's there?' - do I have an intruder. That is what constitutes a pain in the ass, especially when it happens at 3am and you have to wander around the house in a dressing gown checking nobody has broken in.


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Dano1977
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:07 pm

I'm a believer in the paranormal, but alarm bells started ringing when it mentions rented property. Perhaps that is the cynic in me.

I don't know how easy it to get out of a rental agreement in the USA, but in the uk I think legally the tenant only has to give 7/14 days notice, but the landlord has to give 1 months notice.

If the judge needs somebody to spend a few days in the house, then I'm available, and I would only want my airfare paying (BA Club or First only), to get an independent opinion on the house.
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DocLightning
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:45 am

A ghost walks into a bar and orders a drink.

The bartender says: "Sorry, we don't serve spirits here."

  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfZItov1BUo&feature=related

Actually, the above is a video that claims to show a ghost. Apparently the paranormal activity is centered around the rocking chair. You have to watch carefully but the ghost is clearly visible. Elaborate hoax, or real? I tend to go with hoax, but you never know...
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HAWK21M
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:36 am

Quoting Dano1977 (Reply 29):
I'm a believer in the paranormal, but alarm bells started ringing when it mentions rented property. Perhaps that is the cynic in me.

Exactly what I was thinking...Maybe there is a reason for this  
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ltbewr
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:45 am

I wonder if the person involved are users of alcohol, drugs or have underlying mental health problems. Then again it couild be a scam to get a few months free rent. That court hearing could be a real show. Maybe the owner is in a scam too, to try to lower the value of the property so can get their property tax bill lowered (and in NJ it is a big bill).
 
babybus
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:26 pm

Funny how many people believe in ghosts but would say they don't believe in God. Surely they are from the same dimension.

If it is so obvious there is a ghost due to things moving around the house, why don't they film it and sell the film to one of those creepy TV channels? They could afford to buy their own house.

If a tenant of mine claimed the house to be haunted I'd want evidence.
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RE: Cruel Landlord Won't De-haunt Rental House

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:39 pm

Haunted house, paranormal activity . . . a bunch of hooey. With all the attention and investigation it has received, if it were real then that would have been shown unobjectively, scientifically by now.

If the renters have it in their mind some how some strange reason they believe the house is haunted, they should leave. The landlord should not be required to do anything.

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