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Aesma
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3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:47 pm

First, a little context : the 1st round of the election is next Sunday, the 2nd round two weeks later. The likely winner is socialist François Hollande, beating incumbent conservative Nicolas Sarkozy by an historic landslide (or rather, a "peopleslide", since it's a direct election).

There are 8 other candidates, a lower number than in previous elections, but an average number for the 5th Republic. Among them, 3 are communist and wish for a revolution : Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Philippe Poutou and Nathalie Arthaud.

Philippe Poutou, of the New Anticapitalist Party, made an impression (a good one) the other day on national TV by telling how he enjoys holding his factory's bosses hostage with his friends. He works for Ford. He also attracted sympathy by saying that every morning he's really disappointed to discover he's still a candidate and needs to campaign. He wants to "dégager" Sarkozy, like Ben Ali. He's credited with 1 to 2% of the vote.

Nathalie Arthaud, of Worker's Struggle, wants to abolish the free market economy, and sings the praises of the dictatorship of the proletariat. No one knows what differentiates her from Poutou, and she's credited with 0,5 to 1% of the vote.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon is another story. He's the candidate of several unified parties, including the Communist Party, called together the Left Front. He's been rising sharply in the polls for the last two months, and manages to bring more than 100,000 supporters on a weekly basis at his meetings around the country, from the heart of Paris to a beach in Marseille. He's now fighting with the extreme right Marine Le Pen for the third position, polling between 13 and 17%. He's very good at speaking with lyricism and strength, something of importance for French voters, and calls for a "citizen's revolution", protectionism, "taking everything" above 360,000€ of revenue per year. He's really the revelation of this campaign.

What are your thoughts about that situation, which I think is rather unique in the western world ?
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Dreadnought
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:59 pm

It shows that, in spite of a century of experience showing that Communism does not work and can not work, you still have idiots stupid enough to want to try it.
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PPVRA
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts about that situation, which I think is rather unique in the western world ?

Let's see. . .

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
he enjoys holding his factory's bosses hostage with his friends
Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
He wants to "dégager" Sarkozy
Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
sings the praises of the dictatorship of the proletariat

Yeah, real nice folks there  

Nothing but violent thugs.

[Edited 2012-04-19 09:11:53]
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
It shows that, in spite of a century of experience showing that Communism does not work and can not work, you still have idiots stupid enough to want to try it.

Whatever, let them rot. I am done feeling sorry for societies like that. Same crap in my birth country. 50 years of communism and oppression all they can think about is how to get a free lunch.

[Edited 2012-04-19 09:27:12]
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts about that situation, which I think is rather unique in the western world ?

They do remind me of Germany's own "Left Party" (that is its actual name), which feeds on envy and disappointment. IMHO, it is completely unelectable and so are the three people whom you described. However, it's sort of quaint to see old ideals like the "dictatorship of the proletariat" in the media again.   

I do agree that far too many risks and losses have been socialised while benefits and profits have remained private (or become so), but calls for revolution etc. are not helpful at all. Speaking of violence, is there any indication that we may see the banlieue on fire in the coming days?
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
It shows that, in spite of a century of experience showing that Communism does not work and can not work, you still have idiots stupid enough to want to try it.

These people for the most part don't have a realistic chance of actually winning an election so they are not a serious threat.

The big problem for France would be a far right nationalist like Le Pen. In 2002 he actually made it into the second round.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts about that situation, which I think is rather unique in the western world ?

Well, they all sound like delightful people (and I say that with the utmost sarcasm), but I wouldn't think much about them unless they actually manage to get somewhere in the election.

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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Aesma
Those 3 people have no chance in hell to win, can i ask you for your opinion on the favorite Francois Holland?
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GrahamHill
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
made an impression (a good one) the other day on national TV by telling how he enjoys holding his factory's bosses hostage with his friends

Then he is a big moron.

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
He also attracted sympathy by saying that every morning he's really disappointed to discover he's still a candidate

So what's the point in running for presidency, then? What is this dude doing in the French political landscape?? What a waste of energy, time and money.

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
He wants to "dégager" Sarkozy

He chose the wrong strategy.

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
He's credited with 1 to 2% of the vote.

That's all he deserves.

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
Nathalie Arthaud, of Worker's Struggle, wants to abolish the free market economy, and sings the praises of the dictatorship of the proletariat. No one knows what differentiates her from Poutou, and she's credited with 0,5 to 1% of the vote.

I don't even know what to say about her. She probably grew up skipping history classes...

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
Jean-Luc Mélenchon is another story

Because he talks louder than the others. That's all.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:15 pm

So, nobody is finding it folkloric and fun ?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 7):
Those 3 people have no chance in hell to win, can i ask you for your opinion on the favorite Francois Holland?

Hollande is a little bit boring, but after Sarkozy, it's what people need (just talking about the figure, not the policies). He speaks better than Sarkozy, and is more an establishment type (he graduated from ENA, the national school of administration, Sarkozy tried but wasn't accepted). He has a strong reputation of compromise, it's where he excelled during his ten years tenure as secretary of the socialist party. So you can expect him to compromise with Mélenchon, maybe with a few communist ministers, along with green and maybe centrist ones. He will certainly do what he promises on the societal agenda (same-sex marriage and adoption for same-sex couples, right to die, right to vote at local elections for immigrants), because he will probably not manage to deliver on the economic side (Sarkozy wouldn't do better, mind you).

Quoting aloges (Reply 4):
Speaking of violence, is there any indication that we may see the banlieue on fire in the coming days?

Not at all, unless maybe if Sarkozy is reelected. If it's Hollande, then the banlieues, just like everybody else, will wait and see what happens. I don't think Hollande would do anything that would upset the banlieues, however when they break into violence it's often after an incident, typically when a youth or two are killed in a police chase. Hollande has been campaigning in the banlieues and well received, when Sarkozy can only go with an army of policemen around him.

If Hollande is forced to implement austerity, you can be sure that after the summer holidays, there will be big strikes, however.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:42 pm

Being true communists and rivals, they´ll be at their throats shortly...
I need to get some popcorn to watch the factional fights over semantics.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 7):
Those 3 people have no chance in hell to win, can i ask you for your opinion on the favorite Francois Holland?

Hollande is a little bit boring, but after Sarkozy, it's what people need (just talking about the figure, not the policies). He speaks better than Sarkozy, and is more an establishment type (he graduated from ENA, the national school of administration, Sarkozy tried but wasn't accepted). He has a strong reputation of compromise, it's where he excelled during his ten years tenure as secretary of the socialist party. So you can expect him to compromise with Mélenchon, maybe with a few communist ministers, along with green and maybe centrist ones. He will certainly do what he promises on the societal agenda (same-sex marriage and adoption for same-sex couples, right to die, right to vote at local elections for immigrants), because he will probably not manage to deliver on the economic side (Sarkozy wouldn't do better, mind you).

I suspect that his answer to the Euro crisis will be "let´s continue as before and let the Boches pay for it".

Jan
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
He speaks better than Sarkozy

I find them to be good speakers, in their own way. But no one is better than the other.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
he graduated from ENA, the national school of administration

It's never been a quality!   

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
So you can expect him to compromise with Mélenchon

I thought Mélenchon was not seeking a position in the government? I'm not sure those two really appreciate eachother. After all, Mélenchon left the Socialist Party because it was veering too liberal (lol) and that was after 10 years of Hollande's presidency.

I might be wrong, though.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
along with green and maybe centrist ones

The green party does not weigh much this year, so I'm sure Hollande can do without them.

For the centrists, Bayrou will let his voters to choose the candidate they want.

In any case, if Hollande is elected, I certainly do NOT want the same crap like in 1997. If you want to rule this country, do it with your people.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
let´s continue as before and let the Boches pay for it

We don't use that word anymore...
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
you still have idiots stupid enough to want to try it.

Mostly young idealists without a clue. The worst of all is that you'll find them voting for right wing parties in 20-30 years time when they've gotten comfy jobs and incomes...

Quoting alberchico (Reply 5):
The big problem for France would be a far right nationalist like Le Pen. In 2002 he actually made it into the second round.

LePen and her hard right party will never get to power. Our 2 rounds / absolute majority election system makes sure of that.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
So, nobody is finding it folkloric and fun ?

I find it depressing. With everything that's happening around us, it seems we're focusing on completely unimportant issues and playing ostrich with the rest.


As for Hollande, for all it's niceness and likeability, he won't be able to make the important and unpopular decisions which need be made to ensure the economic growth and competitiveness.
Sarkozy did make some hard fought reforms, and even then, they were just a shy fraction of what really needs to be done.

We're taking on water and we're debating about which song the band should play and what should be served for dinner.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
let´s continue as before and let the Boches pay for it

We don't use that word anymore...

possible, but from what I´ve heard Hollande is going to follow a "let´s continue as before" policy and who is going to pay for it?
Most likely Germany through the EU.
And he will encourage the other Southern European countries to do so as well.

Jan
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
Don't know 'bout that, the People's Republic of China is doing just fine. 

Doing well after they backed away from Communism and allowed people to make money for themselves. All they have kept from communism is the one-party totalitarianism and the fact that the state still owns a lot of industries (the worst-run ones).

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
Even the U.S. have communists in government. 

We do, but that does not mean they can impose communism (nationalize all industry and business, central planning, elimination of opposing parties, etc)
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
As for Hollande, for all it's niceness and likeability, he won't be able to make the important and unpopular decisions which need be made to ensure the economic growth and competitiveness.

Beside the (typically French) personnality race, turning the wheel to port is the last thing the boat France needs at this juncture.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:44 pm

From having talked to French colleagues, it seems that the biggest rift in France is the discrepancy in working conditions between the private sector and the public (or formerly public) companies with their strong unions.
The later are exceptionally wellpaid, generally can´t be fired and retire early, while the employees of the private sector get less pay, have longer working hours and often only have time limited contracts.
The socialist party under Hollande is AFAIK very much connected with the public sector unions, who want to return to the old status.

Jan
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts about that situation, which I think is rather unique in the western world ?

Not really so unique is it? Just like any country, France has its extremist candidates: In the USA its Rick Santorum, In Australia its Pauline Hanson, In New Zealand it is Hone Harawira and in France its the three people mentioned above plus Marine Le Pen.
I think its often beneficial to have a few minor-extremist parties on the left and right of a nation's political spectrum because it keeps the major parties firmly close to the center. In contrast when a political system only has a couple of parties which cover a broader spectrum, extremist ideas/policies tend to get more easily absorbed into the larger parties which have a high chance of winning the election and implementing them.

Additionally having the small extremist parties removes extremist stigmas that the other large parties might otherwise carry. For example: In France voting for the PS isn't going to get you called a communist because if you were a communist you would vote for Mélenchon, Arthaud or Poutou.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 5):
These people for the most part don't have a realistic chance of actually winning an election so they are not a serious threat.

Exactly, but when they say idiotic stuff while campaigning it gives the rest of us something to laugh at.

Quoting alberchico (Reply 5):
The big problem for France would be a far right nationalist like Le Pen. In 2002 he actually made it into the second round.

Technically its a she.  Its a good thing that France has a runoff vote, I think more countries should do so.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
So, nobody is finding it folkloric and fun ?


I am. I find what they say funny though I also find it rather sad that they seem to believe it.
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Aesma
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
I suspect that his answer to the Euro crisis will be "let´s continue as before and let the Boches pay for it".

What is Germany paying for, exactly ?

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
I find them to be good speakers, in their own way. But no one is better than the other.

Sure, Sarkozy manages to read a speech someone has written for him, but I was thinking about the way he speaks naturally. Too much like a layman for my taste. And of course I'm not mentioning the famous blunders he made.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
It's never been a quality!

You don't have to be from ENA, but the problem with Sarkozy is that he holds a personal grudge against the school. So he chose to put morons as ministers because they were his friends.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
I thought Mélenchon was not seeking a position in the government?

Indeed he isn't, but the Communist Party is another story. Mélenchon is betting that Hollande will soon be in trouble and wants to benefit from that by not being a part of it. A little bit like Bayrou in 2007, however that didn't work.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
In any case, if Hollande is elected, I certainly do NOT want the same crap like in 1997. If you want to rule this country, do it with your people.

Remember you have legislative elections to win, so compromises have to be made. But maybe not too much, if Hollande scores historically high, which seems to be the trend.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
possible, but from what I´ve heard Hollande is going to follow a "let´s continue as before" policy and who is going to pay for it?

If by "as before" you mean the current trend of more taxes and cutting loopholes, then yes it's indeed his program, with an objective of 3% deficit soon, and 0% for 2017 (Sarkozy says 2016, not a big difference).

Quoting iakobos (Reply 15):
Beside the (typically French) personality race, turning the wheel to port is the last thing the boat France needs at this juncture.

Most of the left wing policies in his program are societal and won't have any effect on the economy. For the rest, the French don't think the situation is that bad (a little bit like the Americans, it seems), so nobody could be elected by promising austerity. And it's arguable that austerity is bringing depression to the EU.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
The later are exceptionally wellpaid, generally can´t be fired and retire early, while the employees of the private sector get less pay, have longer working hours and often only have time limited contracts.

Those are clichés. Public sector employees are paid less than the European average (before the crisis anyway, with the slashing in various countries it might have changed, but with the same education, you'll always get more in the private sector), professors for example are paid something like half what they get in Germany. As for working hours, it's the same for everyone in France, 35 hours. Time limited contracts are indeed a calamity, and in fact many work in administrations with such a contract, not being technically public sector employees. But abusing this is illegal and the state has lost cases, so after 3 such contracts they must get a life contract. Private companies continue to abuse it, or people just get from job to job.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
they must get a life contract

And...you think that life contracts should exist?
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
In the USA its Rick Santorum

He is nolonger running for president.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
The worst of all is that you'll find them voting for right wing parties in 20-30 years time when they've gotten comfy jobs and incomes...

That is good news. I love it when lefties figure out that liberalism doesn't work and switch sides. It happened to me, when I was about 21, and a lot of other people I know. It is fantastic when people who work hard to earn a living and become sucessfull get upset at having to support those that don't work hard and only leech of society.
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Aesma
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 19):
And...you think that life contracts should exist?

Well, that's precisely the perk obtained in exchange for low salaries. I think the contract is not the problem, but the fact that it's almost impossible to get fired. For example, a very very bad teacher that clearly doesn't even try to teach should get canned, but that doesn't happen. On the other hand my father with his Ph.D and my mother with her master would have to be paid far more than they are if they didn't get job security.
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slider
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
It shows that, in spite of a century of experience showing that Communism does not work and can not work, you still have idiots stupid enough to want to try it.

Exactly right.

Listen to me now: if France goes more to the left, they're digging their own grave. the EU is on tricky ground as it is and a nation as large as France needs to pay heed to what's going on around it lest they become Greece. Hell, the US is on its way to becoming Greece and we too are not heeding the signs. France isn't not only unheeding those signs, they're deliberately ignoring them at their own peril.

German hegemony is almost guaranteed if France slides more to the left.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:54 pm

François Hollande - Petit Rappel - Image d'Archives
A quick reminder - archive images

Ou comment se vanter d'être payé à ne rien faire et reconnaitre que l'on est un privilégié
or how to brag about getting paid to do nothing and admit to being one of the privileged few

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL92hevP8P8

Word to word translation

Quote F. Hollande:
"If I was no longer a Deputy (Representative) I would go back to being a Referender Councilor at the Court of Audits ( inspection of financial records).
What does it mean? It means that if I was doing absolutely nothing at the Court of Audits I would still keep on earning 15,000 Francs a month, 25,000 if I did some publications but without even needing to do too many. I could measure out my work load, stay home when I am tired, go to my office at the Court of Audits to make phone calls, in short I would be totally free, I would be a true elite (favoured) the same I was before I became a Deputy."

  

Are they really going to vote this guy to be the President of France for the next 5 years?

Take note that François Hollande is a long time member of Le Siècle along with several other executive members of the Franch Socialist Party. Le Siècle is an elitist private Think Tank that meets every week for lavish dinners on the Place de la Concorde. Its members are right wing as well as left wing. Top politicians, CEOs, bankers, investors, influential members of the media, etc.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50705455/le-siecle


 Wow!

[Edited 2012-04-20 08:06:46]
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slider
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:57 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lims-mobilizing-to-unseat-sarkozy/

One more added wrinkle to this: the immigrant and Islam issue in France.

Sarkozy is being attacked vigorously by the Muslims for his position; France will lose its culture if it's not careful. The influx is already out of control with zero assimilation and more leftist candidates and positions will back down from his position, which is rightful.

This is but a small but critical chapter in the war for Western Civilization that few seem to udnerstand we're in the middle of, much less fighting.
 
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 24):
This is but a small but critical chapter in the war for Western Civilization that few seem to udnerstand we're in the middle of, much less fighting.

Check out what's happening in Belgium (Belgistan?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk&feature=email

.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:10 pm

Hollande said he would legalize all illegal aliens, facilitate immigration and withdraw the word "race" from the French Constitution as soon as he gets elected President of France.

Why do you think the Mrs. Le Pen is so popular? There must be a good reason for it.

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
In the USA its Rick Santorum

He is nolonger running for president.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
The worst of all is that you'll find them voting for right wing parties in 20-30 years time when they've gotten comfy jobs and incomes...

That is good news. I love it when lefties figure out that liberalism doesn't work and switch sides. It happened to me, when I was about 21, and a lot of other people I know. It is fantastic when people who work hard to earn a living and become sucessfull get upset at having to support those that don't work hard and only leech of society.
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slider
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:18 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lims-mobilizing-to-unseat-sarkozy/

One more added wrinkle to this: the immigrant and Islam issue in France.

Sarkozy is being attacked vigorously by the Muslims for his position; France will lose its culture if it's not careful. The influx is already out of control with zero assimilation and more leftist candidates and positions will back down from his position, which is rightful.

This is but a small but critical chapter in the war for Western Civilization that few seem to understand we're in the middle of, much less fighting.
 
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 28):

Your link is broken.

Oops, we can't seem to find that page
Why not try searching for it using our site search. Or check out one of our other pages... start with the home page to get the latest news and updates.

  
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Aesma
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
Listen to me now: if France goes more to the left, they're digging their own grave.

You may not know this, but the French president has been right-wing since 1995, and the government since 2002. Going left after that is not exactly surprising.
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Francoflier
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting iakobos (Reply 15):
Steady 10° to starboard helmsman, whatever the name of the Captain.

It seems as if my fellow countymen and women are still living on a cloud, or have their head firmly burried in the ground.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
France isn't not only unheeding those signs, they're deliberately ignoring them at their own peril.

Sad but true.

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
German hegemony is almost guaranteed if France slides more to the left.

Germany is so far the only European country whose citizens and politicians have understood the current situation and taken proper(ish) steps to get out of it. I don't know about hegemony, but other EU countries will certainly keep having less leverage on things as they start crumbling under their own debts and stay in denial or do too little too late.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
Are they really going to vote this guy to be the President of France for the next 5 years?

Wait, I thought you hated Sarkozy?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 31):
Wait, I thought you hated Sarkozy?

Dislike not hate. I must say I rather like Carla Bruni. She has had a positive influence on him.

Sarkozy is bad enough - Hollande is much worse.

Hollande is totally out of touch with reality. His foreign policy -- if he has any - will be catastrophic.
His domestic policy will be just as catastrophic. I don't expect anything good if he is elected.

His whole campaign is total bluff. He has nothing to support his social and economic measures.
The French markets and the Euro will be strongly attacked on May 7 if he is elected.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 31):
Quoting slider (Reply 22):
German hegemony is almost guaranteed if France slides more to the left.

Germany is so far the only European country whose citizens and politicians have understood the current situation and taken proper(ish) steps to get out of it. I don't know about hegemony, but other EU countries will certainly keep having less leverage on things as they start crumbling under their own debts and stay in denial or do too little too late.

We are not interested in hegemony. We are not even interested to become leaders in the crisis (though it looks as if somebody has to do the job and the burden has fallen on us). It is not the 1930s anymore.
We just don´t want to get pulled too deep into the mess.

Jan
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
Reply 9

Thank you, i was more interested in his foreign policy, mainly the middle east and Syria.
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PHX787
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:53 am

A little off-topic but I wanna see in comparison to the communists who are running for president:

What percentage of people in France actually like Sarkozy? (I personally think he's doing a wonderful job, but I'm not in France)
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:34 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
Check out what's happening in Belgium (Belgistan?)

What happens inside the skull of a dozen beings is hardly representative in a community of millions; however viewers/readers spending minutes of their life paying attention to such ridiculous cliché says a lot, not ?

By the way, the "brain" (excuse the hyperbole) of that small gang was convicted in February....for the fourth time.

Me thinks Hollande and his promise for "change" (?) will lead the pack at the first stage, but I would bet a penny or two that the final stage will bring in a surprise.
 
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 35):
What percentage of people in France actually like Sarkozy?

27% according to the latest polls.
Which is the same as for Hollande, btw. But during a Sarko vs. Hollande second round, it is expected that those who voted for hard left parties during the first round (around 16%, yikes!) will massively report their vote to Hollande in the second round, along with a big proportion of centrist voters, whereas hard right voters are less likely to report their preference onto Sarko, thus giving Hollande the edge in round 2...

Quoting iakobos (Reply 36):
but I would bet a penny or two that the final stage will bring in a surprise.

Let's hope. This year the polls are bound to be much less accurate than previously. Feeling and emotions are strong and many will voice it out when polled, but that might not be translated into ballots.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:30 am

Quoting slider (Reply 22):
German hegemony is almost guaranteed if France slides more to the left.

I don't know what that means. If France, Spain, Italy and others don't follow Germany, I'd say German influence is pretty weak ! Hollande pledges to negotiate a new European treaty including a growth component (with European investment in infrastructure) and he expects quite a few countries to agree to that, even if Germany is reluctant. BTW, isn't Germany in recession at the moment ?

As for Sarkozy, as a last attempt to get some voters back, he now wants to change BCE rules, something he vehemently opposed for months, even calling those who supported that names.

Quoting slider (Reply 24):
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lims-mobilizing-to-unseat-sarkozy/

One more added wrinkle to this: the immigrant and Islam issue in France.

Sarkozy is being attacked vigorously by the Muslims for his position; France will lose its culture if it's not careful. The influx is already out of control with zero assimilation and more leftist candidates and positions will back down from his position, which is rightful.

This is but a small but critical chapter in the war for Western Civilization that few seem to udnerstand we're in the middle of, much less fighting.

What does zero assimilation means ? Sure, there are some Muslims that don't assimilate, but they're a tiny minority. The socialists have a strong anti-clerical background so they're not likely to help any religion, they just won't say stupid things regarding Islam like Sarkozy did in this campaign, nor go kiss the hand of the Pope like he did too. Muslims will not really vote differently than the rest of the French, after all Sarkozy is very divisive, attacking one day public workers, the next unions, the next Muslims, the next the unemployed, the next the sick... It's proving a losing strategy. And he has been in charge of immigration and religion for ten years, if he really wanted to do something about it, there's no-one else to blame but himself.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
Hollande said he would legalize all illegal aliens, facilitate immigration and withdraw the word "race" from the French Constitution as soon as he gets elected President of France.

You got two out of three wrong. Yes he wants to remove the word race from the Constitution, not a pressing matter, but after all, it won't cost much. Just like Sarkozy making a law against Armenian genocide denial (well, that could prove costly, actually). On the other hand he doesn't plan to legalize all illegal immigrants at all, nor facilitate immigration. He wants a status quo, so the same number of legal immigrants (or a little less), and legalization on a case by case basis, just like now.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 34):
Thank you, i was more interested in his foreign policy, mainly the middle east and Syria.

About Syria, France is very involved trying to get a security council decision, with both main parties supportive, so that won't change. About the middle east, things should go back to what they were before Sarkozy, ie less supportive of Israel and more of the palestinians, but no drastic difference either. Less linked with the US, too.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 35):
What percentage of people in France actually like Sarkozy? (I personally think he's doing a wonderful job, but I'm not in France)

He has sunken to as low as 25% approval rating, the lowest in history, probably the same Louis XVI had when his head got separated from his body.

[Edited 2012-04-21 03:33:11]
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:42 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
He is nolonger running for president

I am aware of that.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 32):
Hollande is totally out of touch with reality. His foreign policy -- if he has any - will be catastrophic.

Care to elaborate?
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:46 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
BTW, isn't Germany in recession at the moment ?

Well, if it is I don´t notice anything about it. My boss has problems finding enough qualified staff and plans to expand this year (with new customers) and to hire another 50 aircraft techs.

Jan
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Aesma
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 40):
Well, if it is I don´t notice anything about it. My boss has problems finding enough qualified staff and plans to expand this year (with new customers) and to hire another 50 aircraft techs.

Jan

That doesn't mean much. There is the same situation in my sector (IT), I'm getting job offers every day. The country's growth is still at something like 0% (which means jobs are being destroyed)
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:54 pm

Frist round of election results are starting to appear in French and English via coded messages on Twitter

#iciLondres

Not sure how reliable/serious they are but some of these coded messages are good fun.

For our French Anetters:

#icilondres Lu dans le Flan automobile : à vendre, meuf d'occasion, contrôle botox OK, chante comme une casserole

  

[Edited 2012-04-22 10:04:13]
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Aesma
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:06 pm

I like how everybody on television knows the results but must save face till 20h.
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
So, nobody is finding it folkloric and fun ?

Fun? Not really... considering what they represent. Folkloric? Perhaps but I wonder if anyone would dare to ask whether it's "fun" to have three nazi candidates for president?  
Quoting Aesma (Reply 30):
You may not know this, but the French president has been right-wing since 1995, and the government since 2002.

I guess the better word would be "you may have not noticed but the French president has been right-wing since 1995" because even nominally right-wing French president is pushing for quite leftist economic policies, heavy taxation, dirigist and centralist EU, etc.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
The worst of all is that you'll find them voting for right wing parties in 20-30 years time when they've gotten comfy jobs and incomes...

The worst of all is that 30 years later you find them sitting in the European Parliament still spouting and believing basically the same nonsense the way "ugly EUropeans" like Cohn-Bendit or Martin Schultz do.
 
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:57 pm

First official estimates at polls closing 20h00 (8.00 PM)

Publié le dimanche 22 avril 2012 à 20H00

François Hollande : 28,5%

Nicolas Sarkozy : 25,5%

Marine Le Pen : 20%

Jean-Luc Mélenchon : 10,8%

François Bayrou : 8,9%

Eva Joly : 2,1%

Philippe Poutou : 1,2%

Nicolas Dupont-Aignan : 1,7%

Nathalie Arthaud : 0,7 %

Jacques Cheminade : 0,2%


  

[Edited 2012-04-22 11:17:51]
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NoUFO
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
BTW, isn't Germany in recession at the moment ?

No, it is still growing*, albeit less than in the previous year.

I don't worry about Hollande too much, but I'd feel bad about Marine Le Pen's 20 percent if I were French: 2% ... well, okay - but 20?

Hollande is still a down to earth guy, willing to compromise if need be. He will get along with Obama and Romney alike, just like Mitterand got along well with Reagan. I am not living in France either, but I think Sarkozy did to little for the average Joe (or Jules) and the economy.

* Edit: the economy, not the country. Big grin

[Edited 2012-04-22 12:24:13]
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MadameConcorde
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Suppose Hollande wins the second round of the election. He does not have a legitimate wife. He has a girlfriend.

Hollande is the father of 3 children with former Socialist candiate Segolene Royal but they were never married. His girlfriend also has 3 children from a previous husband - or non husband, not sure.

I don't know of any unmarried French President during the 4th Republic. Nicolas Sarkozy was twice divorced before he married super model Carla Bruni. There is no such official title of First Lady in the French constitution - the wife is the President's wife - so I suppose a girlfriend would have no official position. This will have to be verified as it would be something totally new.

We will have to see who wins the second round of the election. Not a done deal yet.

   

[Edited 2012-04-22 12:43:20]
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NoUFO
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 47):

So what?
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RE: 3 Communist Presidential Candidates In France

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 48):
So what?

I just said it is something never seen before.
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