AA7295
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Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:59 am

Hi All,

After traveling for 10 months, I have returned to Sydney to look for a job.

It has been around 16 months since my last serious job at very large multinational company (with the Australian subsidiary based in Sydney).

I joined this company at a very young age and was a very diligent and enthusiastic employee. I ended up working for them in a head office capacity for 3 years. However I was employed as an intern (but did the role of graduate) and then was promoted to a graduate role (and did the job of about 2 people who were above me. Those 2 people were doing the roles of the people above them... get the idea?... The company paid less but give you the job not of your title but, the job above you.)

I basically left because they didn't take care of me after I had an injury and I wanted to go traveling. And I did that.

Since then, I spent 6 months off working in Cambodia (doing random job, nothing that would be beneficial to mention on a resume) and then 10 months traveling around Asia, Europe and the USA.

So now I am back in Australia looking for a job. In order to make with my resume look better. I have replaced the title intern with graduate, and graduate with the role above. I have NOT at all lied about the job responsibilities I had as they speak for themselves.

I have done this as I am applying for jobs at the role level above Graduate. I feel this will make me stand out more and won't look like (graduate works for a little bit, goes on a holiday and then comes back!).

Can anyone advise about this? Potential repercussions? Do you think it's a big deal? What would you do if you were a manager and you discovered that there was just a title change?

Given this, I have also had to inflate my salary to that of the level above graduate.

For those that have a "fake it til you make it" modus operandi, how should I go around this with references? I didn't exactly leave the company on a positive note (it wasn't negative by any means, it just wasn't as positive as I wanted it to be).

Before you comment, I can predict that some of you will think that I'm some unqualified individual trying to get a job they think they are qualified. That is not the case. I worked my A$$ off for this company and they didn't return the favor (both financially and professionally). I am just trying to work myself into a role where I don't have to be a sh!t kicker again.

Thanks in advance for your input!
 
aloges
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:50 am

Before all else, you ought to remove you real name from your profile page if you're going to ask this sort of question in a public forum.  
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
AA7295
Topic Author
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:55 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
Before all else, you ought to remove you real name from your profile page if you're going to ask this sort of question in a public forum.

Fear not. That's not my real name by a long shot.
 
B747forever
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 2):
Fear not. That's not my real name by a long shot.

So you also lie about your real name...
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
ltbewr
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:24 am

First rule - Never, Never, Ever Lie or over-embellish/pad on a resume. Many employers will check out references, verify with past employers and educational institutions, check financial information and do so even more than they use to. They know there is extensive lying on resumes and need to weed out the overwhelming numbers of candidates/applicants they have for jobs and to keep out bad employees. Making bad choices costs many thousands in wasted compensation and the costs of searching for a replacement. Then if get caught lying and fired, it can also become part of your record you cannot easily explain hurting future employment opportunities.
 
GBLKD
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
First rule - Never, Never, Ever Lie or over-embellish/pad on a resume. Many employers will check out references, verify with past employers and educational institutions

Amen to that.

My wife used to work for a security company here in the UK, many job applicants came from overseas. She managed to find lies applicants had told about previous work experience and criminal records in places like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Nigeria etc. her findings got a lot fired and a few jailed and even deported. With modern technology lies get found out however far from home you try and settle.
 
petertenthije
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:02 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
However I was employed as an intern (but did the role of graduate) and then was promoted to a graduate role (and did the job of about 2 people who were above me.

Why not say you where an intern, but describe in details the work you did. Your future employer can then make an honest assessment fo your capabilities. Being "just" an intern/graduate is no shame. The work an intern does depends per company. For some companies it's little more then a cheap cleaner and coffee delivery service, while other companies through their interns into the deep. So just tell them what you did, as opposed to naming your position.
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ouboy79
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 6):
Why not say you where an intern, but describe in details the work you did. Your future employer can then make an honest assessment fo your capabilities. Being "just" an intern/graduate is no shame. The work an intern does depends per company. For some companies it's little more then a cheap cleaner and coffee delivery service, while other companies through their interns into the deep. So just tell them what you did, as opposed to naming your position.

This. I've done plenty hiring/firing in my days. I'm going to look for someone ambitious but honest. If you worked your tail off and went above and beyond your position, I look on that very favorably. If you are over inflating yourself and your self worth, I'm going to notice that flaw in your personality and show you the door. Maybe it is just me, but I would personally find it interesting that a person has living in several other countries and worked. Those experiences would be great interview topics and really help expose the type of person you are to the interviewer. Why you are wanting to hide it is beyond me, and a bit disturbing. The other thing to drop the sense of entitlement that I'm getting. It isn't attractive to employers and if you give off the impression you are still jaded by your last big employer, why would they want that cancer in their work force?

Hopefully the honest and blunt feedback here will help. Good luck on the job search.
 
planeguy727
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:19 pm

I say leave the real titles. If you were an intern with greater than intern responsibilities is shows you as being quite capable. I know I would see that as a plus.

I have hired students just completing school over those that were out of school for several years based on the actual responsibilities that s/he had and not titles in past positions.

And as other say, never falsify. It will catch up to you.
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AirPacific747
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
First rule - Never, Never, Ever Lie or over-embellish/pad on a resume. Many employers will check out references, verify with past employers and educational institutions, check financial information and do so even more than they use to.

  

It's not worth the risk.. and I don't know about you but my conscience would not last to do this kind of thing, especially if you get a job based on a lie in your resume that you are not qualified for.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
check financial information

My financial status is none of the employer´s business, period. We had this issue once when BMW discovered that one of the union shop stewards and assembly line workers in their motorcycle factory in Berlin was in fact a millionaire.
His parents owned several factories and even sent him to one of Ivy league universities in the US, where he finished with a degree.
The only thing was that he was increasingly leftwing and didn´t want to have anything to do with his parent´s wealth. Even after his parents died and he inherited the factories, he set up a foundation, which would use the profits for charitable purposes, but not for himself..
Instead he took a job as an ordinary factory worker, enjoyed it and was good at it. He got active in the local union and got elected shop steward. Now he was one of those the company management couldn´t buy. He was very popular with his colleagues, because he really took up issues the workers were interested in and, due to his university experience (which his colleagues never knew), he could argue successfully.
Then BMW found out that he was a multimillionaire and fired him because "he didn´t tell them that he was financially independent".
The whole thing went to labour court through several instances and it was decided that it is none of the employer´s business how much an employee owns.

Jan
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us330
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
I ended up working for them in a head office capacity for 3 years. However I was employed as an intern (but did the role of graduate) and then was promoted to a graduate role (and did the job of about 2 people who were above me. Those 2 people were doing the roles of the people above them... get the idea?... The company paid less but give you the job not of your title but, the job above you.)
Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
In order to make with my resume look better. I have replaced the title intern with graduate, and graduate with the role above. I have NOT at all lied about the job responsibilities I had as they speak for themselves.

But you did lie about your title. Don't lie on your resume...period. But feel free to emphasize in your description of your tasks that you were asked and called upon to do work that is usually the responsibility of individuals of higher ranks within the company. That is the way to approach the issue, as you a) dont lie, and b) make yourself look better in the process by demonstrating that you were an overachiever.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 11):
But you did lie about your title. Don't lie on your resume...period. But feel free to emphasize in your description of your tasks that you were asked and called upon to do work that is usually the responsibility of individuals of higher ranks within the company. That is the way to approach the issue, as you a) dont lie, and b) make yourself look better in the process by demonstrating that you were an overachiever.

Right. My younger brother, as a student of electrical engineering and business administration, worked as a lowly paid intern for Siemens. While still being an intern he was put in charge of a multi-million Euro development project of a new technical system (IIRC it had something to do with optoelectronics), which was way above what interns usually do.

Jan
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StarAC17
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Since then, I spent 6 months off working in Cambodia (doing random job, nothing that would be beneficial to mention on a resume) and then 10 months traveling around Asia, Europe and the USA.

Any work experience is worth mentioning on a resume, if you were working on your travels it's plenty relevant even if the duties of that job isn't relevant to what you are applying for.

The only time I was say it would be ok to hide a job is if you were sacked after a short period of time.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
My financial status is none of the employer´s business, period. We had this issue once when BMW discovered that one of the union shop stewards and assembly line workers in their motorcycle factory in Berlin was in fact a millionaire.

A company should not run a credit check on you without your consent, but if you are going to be working for a company where you will be handling company money then your credit might be of interest to them. For the fact that if you are bad with your own money then you have the risk to be bad with theirs.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):

Great story - reminds me of Stanislaw Sosabowski. It took until his funeral until most of his factory colleagues and friends learned that he was a World War II general.


Back to the topic: Don't lie, but feel free to write a summary of what you have done at your past workplace. Take your time to write down what your responsibilities were, the names of your superiors, at which branch and at which location you've worked. And be prepared to answer questions, as they might – and rightfully so – scrutinize your self-made "reference letter".

By being honest, no trust has ever been destroyed. If you damage trust by being outgoing and honest, the trust wasn't a real one to begin with.

They might have suspicions about your application, but give them a chance to see that you are aware of both your work experience and your uncomfortable situation.



David
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aa61hvy
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:13 pm

Never lie about education/degrees and verifiable information. But you can stretch the truth on achievements specific to your prior job. Not lie, but fluff it up a bit. As far as I know ex-employers can't give out information like that.
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srbmod
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 4):
Many employers will check out references, verify with past employers and educational institutions, check financial information and do so even more than they use to.

Some companies refuse to even acknowledge that a person worked for them. My previous employer would not do so, as they wouldn't verify that I worked there when my current employer was checking my work history. I knew that they wouldn't verify, as when I was working for that company, I had been in the office with the boss when the company an ex-employee was applying at called to verify and he said, "we don't do that". It's not uncommon, as I remember I was trying to get hired on at a place about 11 years ago and the only thing that prevented me from the getting the job was that they could never get my last employer to verify that I worked there. Of course in both cases, these companies had such high turnover rates, some of these employees were easily forgotten.

More and more companies are turning to more in-depth background checks and even running a credit check on potential employees. Folks applying for jobs that involve driving also have to get a motor vehicle report that lists any traffic tickets during a certain period (Some companies require a 3-year MVR while others a 5-year.). Some companies are doing background checks that are similar to the background checks one has to undergo in order get an airport SIDA badge. Companies are even checking social media sites to see if there is anything about you on those sites that may be damaging to one's reputation.

Lying or embellishing one's resume has long been a common practice (one should really never do it, but it happens anyway since the job market is fierce), but in today's day and age, it's easier to shoot holes through them and uncover the tweaked information. Some people leave out information that would automatically get them removed from consideration (such as an arrest, even for a minor offense) and then when that information comes out in the background report, that may cost them the job.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 13):
A company should not run a credit check on you without your consent, but if you are going to be working for a company where you will be handling company money then your credit might be of interest to them. For the fact that if you are bad with your own money then you have the risk to be bad with theirs.

You have to sign off on them running any sort of background or credit check, and in most cases, that permission is given by signing the application. Some companies do have separate forms that you sign to grant that permission, but not all of them do it that way. Pretty much all companies these days run some sort of background check on a potential new hire; it's pretty much done for liability reasons, as they need to protect themselves in case something happens. For example, if you were running a trucking company, you wouldn't want to hire a driver that had a number of traffic tickets in the last 3 years as that driver may be more at risk to getting into an accident with your vehicle than someone who hasn't had one in years.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 13):

A company should not run a credit check on you without your consent, but if you are going to be working for a company where you will be handling company money then your credit might be of interest to them. For the fact that if you are bad with your own money then you have the risk to be bad with theirs.

So if you are in debts, you can´t get a job to pay off your debts because you are in debts...   
So what e.g. you took a loan and then lost your job (e.g. your boss went bankrupt, happened to me without a warning, or you are made redundant). Now you are looking for a job to pay off your loan, but because the sudden unemployment you might be behind payments. In my case I discussed the case with my bank manager and got it sorted. I also had a new job pretty fast. But if the new boss checks your credit rating and decideds not to hire you because you got a bad one, how can you ever get out of debt again?
Same with people who had a non-job related criminal history. Under the Anglo-Saxon system it is almost impossible to make a fresh start.

Jan
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Mir
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Can anyone advise about this?

Don't. Just list the actual responsibilities that you had - you were an intern, but you were assigned, and did, graduate-level stuff. That'll look good.

-Mir
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DocLightning
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:21 pm

I agree with much of the advice given above.

Also, remember: When you lie and get the job, you're NEVER "past" the lie. The lie is always in your present and in your future. It's always lurking just one step ahead of you waiting to get uncovered. You live that lie every day of your life and it hangs over you like a spider coming out of the ceiling. You never know when it is going to drop on your head.

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
Don't. Just list the actual responsibilities that you had - you were an intern, but you were assigned, and did, graduate-level stuff. That'll look good.

I agree.
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pu
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:29 pm

Companies lie all the time and it is allowable to explain this as "just business." Bankruptcy is legal permission to break written promises, a change in the "business environment" allows a revision of earlier commitments, and most every large company will happily act immorally (especially in the 3rd world) if they don't fear negative repercussions.

All the scary stories and pontificating in this thread are just symptoms of a herd mentality. References don't get checked and background investigations in most cases are limited to uncovering criminal convictions. All the sternly worded warnings to you here wouldn't be necessary if they were actually accurate - as resume dishonesty would in fact be impossible presuming the all-knowing ability of corprorate recruiters were as advertised. If the alternative to the minor dishonesty you suggest is not being able to get a job, you have every right to manipulate your resume to the same degree of dishonesty you feel employers use themselves.

Pu
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
References don't get checked and background investigations in most cases are limited to uncovering criminal convictions.

Even with this there are limits. E.g. every two years I´ve got to undergo a security check for my airport clearance. This is done by a government agency, which does a complete criminal records check (not just convictions, but also trials and prosecutions in progress) and also checks with the intelligence services if one is know to them in a negative way.
The exactly results are NEVER given to the employer. All the employer knows is that the person passed the check or not.
If there is a problem, the government agency will contact the employee directly to ask for a written statement (best done with the help of a lawyer). It won´t go via the employer.
And a number ofr courts in Germany have decided that only job-related offenses can be an obstacle to an airport clearance.
Examples are: any violent crime, any crime involving explosives or weapons, any crime involving drugs or smuggling (the airport is extraterritorial for customs and bringing stuff illegally through the airport boundaries is smuggling), political or religious extremism.
An airport firefighter, who once cheated a buyer about some faults in the house he sold, and got convicted for fraud, had to be re-employed.
The same applied to an aircraft mechanic in Dresden, who during the communist period, was listed as a stooge for the East German internal intelligence service. The court arguued that at this time Communist East Germany had ceased to exist for more than 15 years and that being listed as a stool pidgeon didn´t mean that the person did it voluntarily (often blackmail by the authorities was used to get somebody to spy on his colleagues and friends) and the quality of the information sent by the spy varied (many, especially the involuntary ones just reported nonsense and general gossip, but nothing of value).
Again, the state authorities had to issue an airside clearance.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AA7295
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 8):
This. I've done plenty hiring/firing in my days. I'm going to look for someone ambitious but honest. If you worked your tail off and went above and beyond your position, I look on that very favorably. If you are over inflating yourself and your self worth, I'm going to notice that flaw in your personality and show you the door. Maybe it is just me, but I would personally find it interesting that a person has living in several other countries and worked. Those experiences would be great interview topics and really help expose the type of person you are to the interviewer. Why you are wanting to hide it is beyond me, and a bit disturbing. The other thing to drop the sense of entitlement that I'm getting. It isn't attractive to employers and if you give off the impression you are still jaded by your last big employer, why would they want that cancer in their work force?

Hopefully the honest and blunt feedback here will help. Good luck on the job search.

I like what you've said... alot. However I wish it was that easy in Australia. I don't think that recruitment agencies or potential managers see it like you do. They look at qualifications and say "right... how can we pay him less". I know this because my best friend works for a very large recruiter, plus I have been given the run around by many recruiters already.

How do I upsell myself (and of course my salary) when I say the true role titles? I just think they'll be like "Oh... Another Graduate?"
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 22):
How do I upsell myself (and of course my salary) when I say the true role titles? I just think they'll be like "Oh... Another Graduate?"

You honestly, but complimentarily, say what you did. If you did graduate-level work, say so.

Also, once you get the job, you will start to gain this thing called "on-the-job experience" and in two or three years (which goes past pretty quickly, believe me), you have THAT on your resume and suddenly everyone is a lot more interested in you!
-Doc Lightning-

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DfwRevolution
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
Bankruptcy is legal permission to break written promises, a change in the "business environment" allows a revision of earlier commitments, and most every large company will happily act immorally (especially in the 3rd world) if they don't fear negative repercussions.

All of these actions are hugely damaging to the reputation and credibility of a business. Just like personal dishonesty. The majority of businesses that enter bankruptcy protection will liquidate and cease to exist.

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
All the scary stories and pontificating in this thread are just symptoms of a herd mentality.

Your perspective shows the lack of character that those of us running reputable businesses want to diligently avoid.  
Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
If the alternative to the minor dishonesty you suggest is not being able to get a job, you have every right to manipulate your resume to the same degree of dishonesty you feel employers use themselves.

That is pathetic. What gives you the right to judge "the degree of dishonesty" of a business? It's entirely subjective, which means you place no absolute standards on personal integrity in matters of business. And if it is permissible to make "minor" fibs to get your foot in the door, then it's also permissible to pad your time sheets to a "minor" degree since the hours are paid by a "dishonest" business.

This is not sanctimonious or self-righteous advice: those who act unethically in business eventually get caught and suffer far worse consequences than if they had acted honestly. Whether you get caught during your application, or as a middle manager, or at the top of the org chart, it is not worth it. Just be honest, and if you aren't qualified for the job, there will be other opportunities.
 
FlyboyOz
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:17 am

Lying is totally WRONG!! Also, don't worry about your experience on your resume. Not many companies are interested in your experience but interesting in your talent and personality. That's number one - your talent and persoanlity, then number 2 is your experience and your previous companies and volunteering as well. There's a chance that the companies may interested in you (your personality) and are happy to train you about work.

Good luck!
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CXB77L
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 22):
How do I upsell myself (and of course my salary) when I say the true role titles?

Other than what everyone else has suggested - give your true title at your previous job but emphasise your actual role by listing your duties - I think, to be perfectly honest, that you may have to swallow your pride a little. You may have to accept graduate positions instead of the "level above graduate", due to the titles of the position you previously held. Sometimes, to move forward, it is necessary to take a step back. If you impress your employer with your hard work and diligence in a graduate role - even if it is one level lower than the position you'd like to apply for - you may be given a fast track promotion to that higher position.
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ltbewr
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:40 pm

Another suggestion I would make it to review the numerous job finding and resume help websites for ways to improve your resume but not step over the line into lying.

You may need workarounds as to employment gaps, but perhaps in those gaps you could discuss your travel, where you went, if gained any foreign language, cultural or business skills. You may need to go less of a chronological resume and more towards an accomplishment focused one. Realize that many resumes are scanned in and reviewed for key 'action' words and against 'filler' or 'weasel' words.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Job titles are bullshit.

It's more about what you did in a position and the experience you gained. Your official title doesn't even often have relevancy.

So, nothing wrong with embellishing a resume. Outright lying is kind of a problem. A good hiring manager will save their opinion for an in person interview.
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StarAC17
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 22):
I like what you've said... alot. However I wish it was that easy in Australia. I don't think that recruitment agencies or potential managers see it like you do. They look at qualifications and say "right... how can we pay him less". I know this because my best friend works for a very large recruiter, plus I have been given the run around by many recruiters already.

Dealing with recruiters is a new thing to me when I moved down here and I think they a huge annoyance and have their own agenda, they base everything on qualifications and choose whom goes to the prospective employer withholding all other applications (I'm speculating but this is how I think it works). Where while that might be a factor for a company if you the most qualified candidate and would fit in terribly with the current staff (say it was a job that needed a lot of team work) you might lose the job in favour of the more qualified candidate from experience or academic performance.
It's much better to go to a company directly but the best way to get a job is to network, that's where 70% of the jobs are.

To the OP, if you left this employer on good terms why not contact them again to see if they could find a place for you and if they can't then see if your own boss has connections that might suit you. This is how you get a job especially in an economy like this.
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us330
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
All the scary stories and pontificating in this thread are just symptoms of a herd mentality. References don't get checked and background investigations in most cases are limited to uncovering criminal convictions. All the sternly worded warnings to you here wouldn't be necessary if they were actually accurate - as resume dishonesty would in fact be impossible presuming the all-knowing ability of corprorate recruiters were as advertised. If the alternative to the minor dishonesty you suggest is not being able to get a job, you have every right to manipulate your resume to the same degree of dishonesty you feel employers use themselves.

You'd be surprised how small the world is, especially when you are staying in similar industries in the same geographic area. As Doc said, a lie is something that will always stay with you, and even if they don't check it out initially, you do not want to be in a position when your current boss happens to run in or know your former boss and informally makes a comment about your past experience which was not true. People are fired for lying on their resumes all the time.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 28):
It's more about what you did in a position and the experience you gained. Your official title doesn't even often have relevancy. So, nothing wrong with embellishing a resume

Feel free to brag as much as you want as long as you aren't actually lying.
 
Superfly
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:28 pm

Here is someone who is honest. Brutally honest on their resume.

Bring back the Concorde
 
AR385
Posts: 6763
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
So now I am back in Australia looking for a job. In order to make with my resume look better. I have replaced the title intern with graduate, and graduate with the role above. I have NOT at all lied about the job responsibilities I had as they speak for themselves.

You simply cannot do this. It´s dishonest. Besides, there is a good chance you will get caught and then things will be worse. What you can do, is in the interview, in a pretty humble way explain that while your title says intern, your actual job responsibilites were those of a graduate. Anyway, when a good recruiter or HR person sees your resumé, they´ll figure that for themselves.

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
Given this, I have also had to inflate my salary to that of the level above graduate.

Big no no. See above. If anybody finds out, they´ll soon be wondering what other things you´ve "inflated."

Quoting AA7295 (Thread starter):
how should I go around this with references? I didn't exactly leave the company on a positive note (it wasn't negative by any means, it just wasn't as positive as I wanted it to be).

That is kind of a bind. If the references are less than good, it´s better not to show them. If you absolutely have to, then again, humbly, explain the circumstances that in your opinion do not make those references accurate. If you are honest, it´ll show but I don´t see how this is something you can control. Just hope for the best.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
Same with people who had a non-job related criminal history. Under the Anglo-Saxon system it is almost impossible to make a fresh start.

It´s worse here. Almost every job will ask you for a "Letter of non-penal records" which is given by your local police. You can´t produce one of those, you won´t be considered for an interview.

Quoting Pu (Reply 20):
and most every large company will happily act immorally (especially in the 3rd world)

Yeah. As I recall, ENRON had its headquarters in Nigeria. As well as all those investment banks that made the world go bust in 2008. As is Wal-Mart, News of the World, etc. All based in the 3th. world right?
 
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pu
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):

Defensive much? I was referring to companies putting forward an honest face in the first world but routinely getting away with murder in the 3rd world.

Quoting us330 (Reply 30):
Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 24):

The OP is talking about changing his job title to more accurately reflect the truth of his duties and exaggerating his income.

This is not a crime against humanity. The preachy morality of all the stern warnings against it definitely doesn't imply something to hide, nor that what he suggests is in fact very widespread, so one hopes we hear even more breathless cautionary tales.

Pu
 
AR385
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):
The preachy morality of all the stern warnings against it definitely doesn't imply something to hide, nor that what he suggests is in fact very widespread, so one hopes we hear even more breathless cautionary tales.

You obviously have not much information about the hiring and recruiting process, which the people who have given the stern warnings in this thread do, as I do. It has nothing to do with "preachy morality" Embelish your resume, sure, that´s not too bad, but lying outright about verifiable and relevant information to the position you are applying to is not only dishonest, but stupid. It will quickly slam shut many doors to you and if you think it´s hard finding a job without being caught as a liar, try after. One thing recrutires do, is share info. on candidates, precisely because how their business works.

Screw with an important recruiter in your city, no other recruiter will pick you up.

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):
Defensive much?

No, not at all. I just have a problem with generalizations.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:05 am

Okay, here's my view on this topic. Never EVER lie about employment dates, job titles, salary amounts, or educational/professional (including military service!) credentials. These items are easily verifiable with schools/universities, government organizations, and former employers. The questions that a prospective employer should ask, and the only questions a former/current employer can legally answer regard dates of service, job title(s), and final salary. Some companies will (foolishly) inform a prospective employer whether someone is "eligible for re-hire"... meaning the former employer did not fire the ex-employee and/or the employee provided them with proper notice of resignation.

Things that almost all job candidates lie about are job duties, internal awards/commendations, school/university activities, and leadership accomplishments - there is almost NO way to verify this type of information. Some candidates will cover periods of unemployment by stating they worked as some type of "management consultant" (and have some friends lie that they "hired" the candidate as a consultant for their business- in case the prospective employer digs deep into their background - most won't).

Furthermore, if a prospective employee will have financial responsibilities (handling cash receipts, approving payroll, managing a department budget, investing a client's monies, negotiating contacts with third-party vendors, etc), the prospective employer will likely ask for permission to "pull" a credit history and a complete criminal background from the candidate - that is part of the employer's due diligence to protect themselves from fraud. Some companies may require an employee be bonded by an outside financial/insurance firm - which involves a much-deeper investigation of an employee's financial and criminal background - sometimes including an investigation by a private investigator.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Maverick623
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):

The OP is talking about changing his job title to more accurately reflect the truth of his duties

And when he is allowed to give himself his own title, he can do that.

The fact is he was an intern, not a graduate. The reasons for changing it are irrelevant.

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):
and exaggerating his income.

If I go to a bar and exaggerate the size of my family jewels to score, not only will the girl eventually find out, but she will then kick me to the curb and put me on blast.

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):

This is not a crime against humanity.

Excellent. Let's immediately repeal all crimes, torts, and liabilities that don't involve genocide.

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):
definitely doesn't imply something to hide

If his first act in getting a job is to lie, you can bet your bottom dollar he will continue to lie all the way to the top. This isn't about merely hiding something, this is character.

Quoting Pu (Reply 33):
nor that what he suggests is in fact very widespread
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Curtisman
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:19 am

Do not lie. There is no way around it. You can be fully honest and sell yourself - but do not lie. It WILL come back to haunt you. I am a firm believer of what goes around comes around. I understand you are concerned about the salary etc. but that is not acceptable for lying. Tell the truth and that is what you will be able to live by in your years with whichever company hires you. Lie - and you will be caught at some point.

Think about your integrity. If you are even considering lying then you need to evaluate yourself.

I sound critical and harsh - but this is a very serious personal issue for you if you are even considering lying.

Cheers!
Citizen of the World
 
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Scooter01
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Also, remember: When you lie and get the job, you're NEVER "past" the lie. The lie is always in your present and in your future. It's always lurking just one step ahead of you waiting to get uncovered. You live that lie every day of your life and it hangs over you like a spider coming out of the ceiling. You never know when it is going to drop on your head

Interesting that this topic came up.
Very recently a Government official here in Norway got convicted for falsifying her educational credentials. Ironically she was Head of the agency responsible for checking the credentials of health-care applicants when she got caught.

Full story: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/06/25/health-hoax-shocks-officials/

and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liv_L%C3%B8berg

Scooter01
There is always a good reason to watch airplanes
 
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pu
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 38):

I think that's a great story.

It is very often those "guilty" of something that are the loudest voices telling others not to do it. For instance, most people here are telling the OP not to enhance his CV mainly because he might get caught...to me that's because of their own fears they want others to share and validate, not because anyone cares about the employer being misled.

Pu
 
Curtisman
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 39):
It is very often those "guilty" of something that are the loudest voices telling others not to do it. For instance, most people here are telling the OP not to enhance his CV mainly because he might get caught...to me that's because of their own fears they want others to share and validate, not because anyone cares about the employer being misled.

I am certainly not guilty of what you are suggesting. And I am not so much concerned about the employer being misled. My concern is around people attempting to justify lying. It's wrong.
Citizen of the World
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting Pu (Reply 39):
It is very often those "guilty" of something that are the loudest voices telling others not to do it. For instance, most people here are telling the OP not to enhance his CV mainly because he might get caught...to me that's because of their own fears they want others to share and validate, not because anyone cares about the employer being misled

Well, I'm nto talking to the employer, am I?

I'm appealing to the OP's self-interest.

And no, I have never lied, imbellished, or padded a resume. My resume is pretty impressive on its own, thank you.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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pu
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):

I'm appealing to the OP's self-interest

Exactly right, no one here is crying for the "victim"'s interests. My point is that with replies like this that consider only AA7295's point of view, the question then is not nearly the big moral issue or personal flaw implied by all the sententious posts. The only real question is if the risks outweigh the rewards for AA7295 personally.

To exaggerate the circumstances in order to illuminate a point, imagine if the OP asked, "I'm thinking of kidnapping someone to collect a ransom," and instead of invoking the pain/suffering of the victim, all the replies were along the lines of him potentially not being able to fully enjoy the ransom money because sooner or later the inland revenue authorities or his coworkers would wonder where all the money came from.

If more replies had argued the employer is damaged by the enhanced CV, I would not have taken this lonely challenge to the thundering herd. Its all the brazen advocates of self interest masquerading as cosmic morality that are disturbing.

So, let's just agree that the only thing argued by anyone here is that potential damage to the employer either doesn't exist or is irrelevant and really the replies are largely focused on whether or not he can get away with it.

Pu
 
StarAC17
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Tue May 01, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 32):
That is kind of a bind. If the references are less than good, it´s better not to show them. If you absolutely have to, then again, humbly, explain the circumstances that in your opinion do not make those references accurate. If you are honest, it´ll show but I don´t see how this is something you can control. Just hope for the best.

If you are really worried about references then add in "References available upon request" Then only provide them if asked.

Most employers only contact references if they are very interested in hiring. Provided your departure from the previous company is the only bad thing from your last job and you are asked why you left in an interview you might not have anything to worry about.

If you did good work and you previous employer doesn't hold a grudge then if might not be so bad.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
AR385
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Tue May 01, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 43):
If you are really worried about references then add in "References available upon request" Then only provide them if asked.

True. That is what I have in my resumé. But the impression I got from the OP was that they had asked him for them repeatedly. And for the record, I´m not worried about them, I just don´t like the fact that HR or recruiters ask for them.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Lying On A Job Resume?

Tue May 01, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 43):
and you are asked why you left in an interview

AFAIK, you can answer that however you please. Not that I advocate lying, but in the US a former employer is generally not able to say anything except the dates you worked there. Anything else opens them up to lawsuits based on privacy violations all the way up to slander or libel.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
I just don´t like the fact that HR or recruiters ask for them.

IMO, if you're desired position deals with significant sums of money or other assets, professional (not personal) references are a must, if only for the employer to cover their behinds.

I always laughed when filling out job applications for entry-level positions that asked for references. Only once did one actually "request" references, and I didn't bother to call them back. Sorry, but if you're asking a 17 year old for "references" for a flippin fast food job (no pun intended), you're priorities are in the wrong place, and I don't want to work for you.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way

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