Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:03 am

My question is......would you vote for someone who gives speeches on TV and tells bare-faced lies ? For POTUS ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv4jnlkxOaw

If you click on this link, you can see and hear the present POTUS telling the American public (and the whole world), that his father "served in World War 2; Take a few minutes and "google" Barack H. Obama, Sr. (Obama's father), and Lolo Soetoro, (his step father)

Obama Sr........born 4-4-36, died 11-24-82

Lolo Soetoro....born 1-2-35, died 3-2-87

So his father was 9 1/2 yrs old when WW 2 ended, and his step father was 10 yrs old when it ended; Anyone know of anyone who served in the U.S. Military when they were 9 1/2 or 10 yrs old ? BTW........I was born in 1932 and I missed being old enough to "join up" during WW 2 by about 3 years; ( I had to wait for Korea )

I think it's pretty logical to assume that anyone who would tell such an easily checked lie on national TV, would lie about anything, (including where he was born).

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19624
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:25 am

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp

I grant he really needs to watch his wording.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2566
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:26 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
(including where he was born)

Yep, it always comes around to this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp
 
WestJet747
Posts: 1950
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:39 am

The comments on that Youtube video are just...ridiculous. It amazes me how much difficulty those people have: A) reading the comments preceding theirs, and B) doing 5 minutes of research.

He probably should have chosen his words better (because the vultures in the media will always pick them apart) but it isn't hard to believe he would refer to his grandfather as his father since the man did raise him longer than any other male figure in Barack's life.
Flying refined.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 5358
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
My question is......would you vote for someone who gives speeches on TV and tells bare-faced lies ? For POTUS ?

It is apparent that you wouldn't vote for someone such as that, but it is equally apparent that you also do not do much research, and instead fan the fires of lies themselves .

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 2):
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp

My question is , should people that can't do their own research and hold a bit of understanding be allowed to vote?
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:41 am

Yeah Obama always skews thing (ROMNEY2012!)
Until I see documentation, I won't believe him.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:48 am

The relevant part from Snopes being...

...Stanley Dunham was the person who most functioned as a father in Barack Obama's formative years, as Dunham helped raise and care for Barack from the age of ten onwards in Hawaii while Barack's stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, remained in Indonesia. Clearly Barack Obama's mention of a veteran relative who came home from World War II and "got the services he needed" was a reference to Stanley Dunham, who did in fact enlist in the military shortly after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and served as a sergeant with the U.S. Army in Europe during the war. Either Barack Obama referred to him as his "father" because that's the way he thinks of him, or because he simply misspoke and said "father" instead of "grandfather."

Scroll to the bottom: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/service.asp

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
I think it's pretty logical to assume that anyone who would tell such an easily checked lie on national TV, would lie about anything, (including where he was born).

I think it's pretty logical to spend 1min. searching Google and doing a bit of research before authoring an OP like the above.
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4618
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
would you vote for someone who gives speeches on TV and tells bare-faced lies ? For POTUS ?

Well, we had one. His name is George Walker Bush. Back in 2003, he said Iraq had WMDs. No weapons were ever found. He was re-elected in 2004. But I guess lies don't count when war and deficits are concerned. No, it's only when the president you dislike says something about his family that turns out to not be as it seems.

At least this "lie" does not waste billions of dollars down the drain. And I put lie in quotation marks because this might have been something he misspoke. Yes, misspeak, like Palin with refudiate, or Bush with nuke-e-lar. If you were fortunate to have been raised by both of your biological parents, good for you. My cousin was raised more by my grandparents than her mother (single mom, working full time) and she always refers to my grandmother as mom (still does).

Not justifying what he said. He definitely should watch his wording more carefully. But people here (especially those on the other side of the political spectrum like you) need to take a chill pill and try to guess why he might have said that in the first place instead of claiming for impeachment for something that doesn't even merit impeachment.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 4:35 am

That Snoops explaination is about the weakest one I have ever seen on that site.....a few days later the guy claims he was talking about his grandfather.....I call B.S.

His handlers realizing how what is said was heard jummped through the hoops to find a relative that fit into what he said and went with it.......spin control 101 folks.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 7):
Well, we had one. His name is George Walker Bush. Back in 2003, he said Iraq had WMDs. No weapons were ever found. He was re-elected in 2004. But I guess lies don't count when war and deficits are concerned. No, it's only when the president you dislike says something about his family that turns out to not be as it seems


Only about war and deficts? Really?

Remember this gem....."I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN."

The new stuff is great but it is nice to go back and hear the classics.

[Edited 2012-05-01 21:38:24]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 5973
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Until I see documentation, I won't believe him.

??? I guess you must believe him It's very well documented who his "father's" were and how they impacted his life.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
Remember this gem....."I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN."

Actually if that is what he had said then he would might have been fine... Because he didn't have sex with her.

Of course the problem he said: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" and as a mater of fact, he did have sexual relations with her..... ooops!   

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
seb146
Posts: 13789
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
Remember this gem.

When the right-winger is called out, deflect. What was the deficit run up under Bush and the Republican Congress? It was not put on budget until the Democrat was in the White House, so it is soley the responsibility of the Democrat who put trillions of dollars of deficit spending on budget. Not the right-winger who actually did the spending.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13401
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 7):
Back in 2003, he said Iraq had WMDs.


(sigh)

At the time, that's what the intel said. That's what he "knew" at the time. It wasn't a lie; lying means flat-out saying something you know to be false, and that wasn't the case for Bush.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
At the time, that's what the intel said. That's what he "knew" at the time. It wasn't a lie; lying means flat-out saying something you know to be false, and that wasn't the case for Bush.

Nope. "The intel" clearly said no such thing, which is underscored by the majority of correct reporting and the majority of correct political conclusions back then which later required neither apologies nor revisions.

It took extremely aggressive massaging, misinterpretations and willful dismissal of clear evidence to come to the false conclusions. By themselves, the facts never warranted an invasion, not even back then.

And intenionally undertaking such deliberate distortions is indeed equivalent to a lie.

The only remaining escape might be to claim that at least Bush himself was deliberately kept clueless by Cheney, Rumsfeld et al, but that still doesn't change the fact that the Bush administration as a whole deliberately lied about the pretenses for the Iraq invasion, despite knowing that the actual evidence did not provide a basis for it. There's just no way around it.

Obama, on the other hand, spoke about a family member who actually existed and who actually experienced what Obama talked about. That this person was like a father to him is also easy to verify. That formally he was Obama's grandfather changes absolutely nothing about the actual statement Obama made. It also hurts exactly nobody.

And you think that was "the same" as starting an unprovoked war of aggression with many thousands of casualties under clearly false pretenses?

I would say calling a sense of ethics "skewed" which allowed for such an equation would be the understatement of the decade.
 
Geezer
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:37 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 5:34 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 7):
Well, we had one. His name is George Walker Bush. Back in 2003, he said Iraq had WMDs. No weapons were ever found. He was re-elected in 2004. But I guess lies don't count when war and deficits are concerned. No, it's only when the president you dislike says something about his family that turns out to not be as it seems.

Einstein; I'm well aware that you don't like George W. Bush ! And you will no doubt be surprised that I DO agree with you about one thing, re; George Bush; he really SHOULD learn how to pronounce "Nu-cle-er" (as in "nucleus") where the damned word came from; (I used to grit my teeth every time he said "Nuke-U-lar" ! Is "W" hard-headed ? Most definitely! Does George Bush have CLASS ? Put it like this...........almost all Republican presidents have had the good sense to leave office, go home, and SHUT UP; Starting with "the peanut"guy, most Democrats ( think Slick Willy) have run around the world, shooting themselves in the foot, and making asses of themselves; "W" hasn't done that; he's sitting out in Crawford grinning, and really doesn't care what anyone on here thinks of him !

But did he "lie" about Saddam having WMD's ? Let me tell you something........you're a very bright, very intelligent young guy; I've known that for almost two years now; so if you are able to just put your "feelings" aside for a bit, and ask yourself this; what exactly does any POTUS really "know" ? Whether it's Bill Clinton, or whether it's George Bush, they "know" just what a bunch of "thousands" of assets over at C.I.A., N.S.A., D.I.A. his National Security Adviser, his "SecState", SecDef", and any number of other billions of dollars worth of highly paid, highly trained, and quite frequently "highly having their asses hanging way out" types tell them, bright and early every morning when they get their every morning, 7 days a week "briefing", ( from I might add, some highly motivated "spook type" who has been up all night working on it, and trots every morning from Langley to the WH to give his 15 minute "take" on what "is happening", or what several billion dollars worth of intelligence gathering apparatus "thinks" is happening around the world.

In case you missed this, people like Saddam, the midget nutcase in NK, and the "wonderful folks" in the Kremlin don't exactly send the CIA an email every day with pictures and a long "explanation" of all the things they have "been up to" lately, the better to wipe the U.S. off the map any day now. No, it really doesn't "work like that"; it's called "intelligence gathering", and it's partly "comint", partly "humint", partly "sigint", (and a few more kinds of "int" that I probably can't even spell, and a LOT of "it" isn't even "intelligent" ! (But it's all you have, it's all you can get, and it's what you are obliged to "go with" to make decisions, a few of which may determine whether the U.S. is still going to "be here" the next day. or if it's maybe going to be a "large smoking hole in the earth".

You weren't "here yet" during the Cuban Missile Crises; you weren't "around" when Nikita Kruschev came to the U.S., toured our hog farms in Iowa, and got on OUR TV, stuck his fat index finger in the camera, and said to the American people...."we will bury you" ! You probably are not aware of just how very close the U.S. came to being the target of Russian missiles (with nuclear warheads), sitting about 1 minute away from Miami, and with a madman in the Kremlin with his fat little finger on the button.

Obviously, "times" were much different when JFK had to make some very "ballsy" snap decisions, and when Dubya had to worry about Saddam; I don't mean this to be insulting Einstein, as I know you mean well; the problem is, you don't really "know" what you think you "know"; but don't feel bad.......half the time. neither does the POTUS ! (And for all of the reasons alluded to above; I hear so many "opinions" expressed on A.net; do you really think "your side" has a lock on all of the facts ? Do you really think telling someone, In this case someone who has "been around" since the early 1930's that all of your "opinions" are superior to other people's opinions is going to make Obama "look good", and by constantly calling George Bush a liar, is going to make him look bad ? I'm assuming (and I hope I'm correct) that you have all ten of your fingers yet; try this.......think......long and hard........then sit down, and on each of your ten fingers, list ONE smart, intelligent, positive thing that Obama has done for this country, (notice, I said for THIS COUNTRY), ( not for himself ), in the 3 1/2 years he's been in office. Then stick them on a thread so everyone can see them; it will be the shortest thread on record, and YOU will have a lot of fingers left over !

Sadly, you have "bought into" the age-old liberal adage...........call someone you don't like a liar enough times, and sooner or later he becomes a liar ! (But only in YOUR MIND !) I'm really not trying to "defend" George Bush; he really doesn't need me to defend him; hell, he already KNOWS if and when he's told a lie; (everyone else is just guessing !)

Let's see..........your post was # 7; that means at least 4 or 5 posters are telling me, they have "better" sources of information than I have, that their "opinion" is better than my "opinion"..............or maybe just that they are willing to sit up all night, sift through all of their usually on line sources.......and in the morning they're "smart" and anyone who doesn't agree with them is "dumb" ! What you are all not taking into account, I have HISTORY on my side ! I don't have to read a book to know what happened during, say, WW 2; hell, I was WATCHING, I was listening ! I was PRESENT when it was happening! You mentioned "Dubya" wasting "billions"........yeah, he probably could have spent a few less bucks in his 8 yrs; but YOUR guy ! Your guy has wasted more money in just 3 1/2 yrs, than all other POTUS back to, and including George Washington ! ( I wasn't here yet, but I read that in a history book )

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 5:40 am

I don't know, Grandfather more like, who brought him up.
So it must be a plot of some kind.

I DO know that Reagan on a visit to West Germany as President once told a camp survivor of his memories of being there in WW2, trouble is Ronnie barely left Hollywood in the war.
Seems some of certain persuasion in the US don't mind outright fantasy over a slip of the tongue, at least from certain people, indeed seem to prefer it.
Which explains a few things.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3400
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
Only about war and deficts? Really?

Remember this gem....."I DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN."

The new stuff is great but it is nice to go back and hear the classics.

Agree or not with Bill Maher he nails it in his closing essay about what lies or alleged lies are accepted in the media and US society at large. Sex related lies are and always have been the worst lies and it isn't because the US is prudish, because you do have one of the most hypersexualized cultures out there. Why is this?

Clip here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrYyN4bWWWQ

Quoting geezer (Reply 13):
Put it like this...........almost all Republican presidents have had the good sense to leave office, go home, and SHUT UP; Starting with "the peanut"guy, most Democrats ( think Slick Willy) have run around the world, shooting themselves in the foot, and making asses of themselves; "W" hasn't done that; he's sitting out in Crawford grinning, and really doesn't care what anyone on here thinks of him !

Clinton and Carter have done humanitarian things after leaving office and while you and many might not like their politics they are charismatic individuals whom people still listen to. Clinton charges IIRC $500,000 a speech and that is a good economic decision on his behalf.

GWB has kept low key because if he were ever to leave the US he would at the best be heckled making it not worth the effort like Cheney not coming to YYZ or YVR a few months back because he would have received a huge deal of backlash. At the worst some countries with big balls might arrest Bush for international war crimes, even though that would last about 5 seconds it would create more trouble than it is worth and he smart enough to know that.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
That Snoops explaination is about the weakest one I have ever seen on that site.....a few days later the guy claims he was talking about his grandfather.....I call B.S.

Concur. If he says his Dad in public, he has to assume that most people would mean his father directly. He was trying to spin it. But he knew this at the time so therefore knew he couldn't really get caught out for "bare faced lying"

But that's politics so nothing new
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 16):
Concur. If he says his Dad in public, he has to assume that most people would mean his father directly. He was trying to spin it. But he knew this at the time so therefore knew he couldn't really get caught out for "bare faced lying"

What would have been the point of "lying" there?

That is an obvious weak link in that argumentative chain.

He was talking about his biological grandfather who cared for him like a father would have. And apparently what he was talking about is factually correct.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3551
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
but it is equally apparent that you also do not do much research,

Research? The words came out of Øbama's mouth why should Geezer have to do ANY research. The hypocrisy of the left is astounding, on one hand were told to believe everything Øbama says and when he lies were told to do research.......oh but then he just mispoke.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 8:45 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
What would have been the point of "lying" there?

That is an obvious weak link in that argumentative chain.

The point of lying is to create a perception in the mind of potential voters that Obama has a closer personal experience of war than he actually has. Clearly, in this case, "my father" as opposed tp "my Grandfather" will have a much greater impact with the voters. I understand the more fatherly role of his GF, but in the world of soundbytes, he needed a more obvious impact.
 
User avatar
2707200X
Posts: 4764
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:31 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
My question is......would you vote for someone who gives speeches on TV and tells bare-faced lies ? For POTUS ?

Who would take your argument seriously when you have nothing, Charley to back your facts up.

You can't prove that Obama is Muslim cause he ain't

You can't prove that Obama is Kanyan cause he ain't

You can't accept that Obama killed OBL so you (Romney) accuse him of being an appeaser

And now this.

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
and tells bare-faced lies

Callow conservatives who believe this s... resort to this because they they have nothing of substance to run other that personhood amendments, gay bashing ordinances, war on women and workers and birther laws to go on.

[Edited 2012-05-02 02:17:45]
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:04 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 18):
Research? The words came out of Øbama's mouth why should Geezer have to do ANY research.

Obama was obviously speaking of his biological grandfather who effectively raised Barack like his direct son.

A tiny little bit of research would have made clear that a) Obama's story was actually factual and that b) the apparently private name he had for his grandfather should probably not have been used in public in order to avoid the gigantic confusion he apparently caused for some people with a pre-existing agenda.

What any potential motivation for a "lie" might have been is still unanswered.

Apart from uncomfortably exposing the intense ill will some people are harbouring against Obama regardless of any factual basis – what actual meat is there to the accusations of him "lying"? Where is an actual "lie"? To what imaginable end? And why is him "lying" supposed to be a more plausible explanation than Obama merely not translating his own habitual name for the man who raised him to the publically more conventional one?

This is really a bit much, particularly regarding very personal matters whose minor details are entirely irrelevant to his public office. Regarding the political statement he was making, he had his facts apparently correct.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:12 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 19):
The point of lying is to create a perception in the mind of potential voters that Obama has a closer personal experience of war than he actually has. Clearly, in this case, "my father" as opposed tp "my Grandfather" will have a much greater impact with the voters. I understand the more fatherly role of his GF, but in the world of soundbytes, he needed a more obvious impact.

Given that his personal circumstances while growing up are on the very public record, I have serious doubts that he attempted a deliberate distortion there. That he was merely using a habitual name without an extra translation looks like a much more likely explanation here.

The burden of proof is on the one making a steadfast claim of deceit, and that proof is still completely absent.

One might raise suspicions of a minor distortion here, but all the outrage is completely and utterly misplaced and out of any possible proportion.

If that is already the political substance of your opposition to Obama, he must be a saint.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:22 am

Perhaps it is time for another one of these:



because this hasn't sunk in yet:

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:50 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
Given that his personal circumstances while growing up are on the very public record, I have serious doubts that he attempted a deliberate distortion there. That he was merely using a habitual name without an extra translation looks like a much more likely explanation here.

The burden of proof is on the one making a steadfast claim of deceit, and that proof is still completely absent.

I am not giving proof. I am offering an opinion. And I maintain that he was posturing in this case. Others will disagree.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):
If that is already the political substance of your opposition to Obama, he must be a saint.

Actually, I am a fan of Obama. However that does not mean that I will swallow everything he says and assume he is some sort of saint. He can play the dodgy politician just as much as the next guy
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9199
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 9:58 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
So his father was 9 1/2 yrs old when WW 2 ended, and his step father was 10 yrs old when it ended

My father (RIP) was born 1/12/1920. He was a high-ranked career military man. He served in WWII, Korea War and Indochina War + several missions overseas.

Considering all these dates I cannot tell for sure as I wasn't there but I seriously doubt POTUS Barack Hussein Obama's father served in WWII.

If he knows this is not true, what interest has he to tell a lie to the public?

   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:04 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 24):
Actually, I am a fan of Obama. However that does not mean that I will swallow everything he says and assume he is some sort of saint. He can play the dodgy politician just as much as the next guy

Sure. But jumping on him for calling the man "father" who actually raised him – is that really the thing to do? I for my part find that more than just slightly distasteful and beyond that entirely irrelevant to any political debate (particularly since the actual political statement he made was consistent with the facts).

Criticize his policies, by all means. But this "issue" isn't worth the bytes wasted on an internet forum thread. It barely rises to tabloid level, if that.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 25):
Considering all these dates I cannot tell for sure as I wasn't there but I seriously doubt POTUS Barack Hussein Obama's father served in WWII.

If he knows this is not true, what interest has he to tell a lie to the public?

He didn't.

[Edited 2012-05-02 03:05:45]
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:20 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):

I think you misunderstand me, (or possibly my take on the situation). My belief is that he used the term "father" in this situation for his own personal political gain. Despite the reality of his family situation, I find it quite impossible to believe that they did not specifically tailor this statement for maximum political gain. And if that is the case, (again, my opinion) then it certainly is newsworthy, although as I said before, just another case of politics in the age of the soundbyte
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:24 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
jummped through the hoops to find a relative that fit into what he said and went with it.......spin control 101 folks.

Oh yeah, I mean some SERIOUS hoops were jumped through to 'come up with' the Grandfather who practically raised. Man, they must have spent hours and hours trying to figure out what to do. Yup, some astonishingly cunning research there. Hats off to them.   
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:30 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 27):
My belief is that he used the term "father" in this situation for his own personal political gain.

He employed the story to highlight the importance of providing essential services to veterans. He added that the man who was the most prominent father figure to him was one of those veterans, i.e. he has personally experienced how important these services are to veterans and their families.

Why should we automatically assume that he lied for political gain? Just because some people cannot fathom how someone else has a more complicated family tree than their own? It's nothing but another sorry attempt at defamation by a group united not by their love of anything, but by their hatred of Obama and all that they believe he stands for.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:36 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 27):
I think you misunderstand me, (or possibly my take on the situation). My belief is that he used the term "father" in this situation for his own personal political gain. Despite the reality of his family situation, I find it quite impossible to believe that they did not specifically tailor this statement for maximum political gain. And if that is the case, (again, my opinion) then it certainly is newsworthy, although as I said before, just another case of politics in the age of the soundbyte

I still don't see much of a point there. Had he said "grandfather" it would have had exactly the same impact. Far too little potential gain to take a deliberate risk.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 29):

I don't think "we" should automatically assume anything. As an individual, we should each draw our own conclusion and opinion from what is presented to us. That is what politics in a democracy is all about.

I have stated above the reasons why I formed the opinion that I have. And again, I stress, I do not "hate" Obama. In fact if I was American I would most certainly vote for him, and offering my opinion does not amount to any form of defamation.

However, I don't see him above political posturing or taking political gain out of the manner in which he or his advisors choose to present him personally. Never see a politician that wouldn't have done it.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4033
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 18):
Research? The words came out of Øbama's mouth why should Geezer have to do ANY research. The hypocrisy of the left is astounding, on one hand were told to believe everything Øbama says and when he lies were told to do research.......oh but then he just mispoke.

He did enough research to post an inflammatory topic (not even a link to an article with the information in, an actual topic with primary information in it - that information had to come from somewhere, indicating research was done), so yes its not undue to expect him to do some research to see what others are saying on the topic.

The Snopes article is two years old, so its not as if hes been caught out with it just being posted.

Its a prime example of only that research which supports a particular view is accepted.

A better topic on this would be "Should Obama refer to his Grandfather as his Father in public, considering this is the sort of public confusion it creates, opening him up to attacks from those who have nothing better to do?" - that would foster a better discussion, rather than an instant refutation and then a descent into "he said, she said".

From the way this was posted, it certainly looks like there was an agenda at play here.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 31):
I have stated above the reasons why I formed the opinion that I have.

Forming an opinion should involve at least a quick glance at the background information provided, such as in this thread. I would be very surprised indeed if a young Obama had really started calling his grandfather "daddy" (as he presumably did) just to be able to make this statement several decades later, after becoming President of the USA.

But then again, there are people out there who believe that his birth announcement was put in a Hawaiian paper for similar conspiratorial purposes...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:16 am

Why is this newsworthy?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 8):
That Snoops explaination is about the weakest one I have ever seen on that site.....a few days later the guy claims he was talking about his grandfather.....I call B.S.

If Obama had a grandfather who served in the war, then there would be absolutely no reason to lie. This is simply Obama having been mispoken. He had no reason to lie, and his message is just the same, saying he had a close family member affected by WW2. Some would argue that he lied due to grandfather not being as close as father, but in Obama's case the opposite could be argued. His grandfather was like a father.

It's not a blatant lie when it is obvious he had no reason to lie.

I'm not saying Obama is always truthful and you should take everything he says as truth. In fact, we should scrutinize things he says, along with every other politician, but this is not worth scrutinizing. All that is happening here, is Obama being villanized for a small mispoken statement.

-CXfirst
 
Rara
Posts: 2296
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
I think it's pretty logical to assume that anyone who would tell such an easily checked lie on national TV, would lie about anything, (including where he was born).
Quoting geezer (Reply 13):
Sadly, you have "bought into" the age-old liberal adage...........call someone you don't like a liar enough times, and sooner or later he becomes a liar ! (But only in YOUR MIND !)
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:27 am

From the time he ran for POTUS to the present, he has from time to time made references to his maternal grand-parents and their parts in WWII. His Grandfather did serve in WWII and can be confirmed. His Grandmother worked in the Boeing plant in Witcha, KS during WWII. In this speech he should have been more careful and used the term Grandfather.

Any President has to be so careful in his words as any mistake can be magnified by our media within seconds by those with an agenda. I would rather see the attention as to the President be more on their polices or lack of them rather than comment to stupid levels of a verbal slip.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 33):
Forming an opinion should involve at least a quick glance at the background information provided, such as in this thread.

what would suggest that i didnt possess the background information?

Quoting aloges (Reply 33):
I would be very surprised indeed if a young Obama had really started calling his grandfather "daddy" (as he presumably did) just to be able to make this statement several decades later, after becoming President of the USA.

Bizarre trying to get a point understood here. I of course was not suggesting anything as premeditated as you suggest. Merely the fact that he had this relationship with his grandfather was later exploited for political points
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 37):
Merely the fact that he had this relationship with his grandfather was later exploited for political points

Oh, alright, sorry. I did misunderstand you in as much as I thought you had an issue with the father/grandfather thing. Can I blame it on a lack of coffee?   
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting moo (Reply 32):
A better topic on this would be "Should Obama refer to his Grandfather as his Father in public, considering this is the sort of public confusion it creates, opening him up to attacks from those who have nothing better to do?"

But then that would be much less incendiary and much less apt to promoting a specific political slant, wouldn't it…?   

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 34):
I'm not saying Obama is always truthful and you should take everything he says as truth. In fact, we should scrutinize things he says, along with every other politician, but this is not worth scrutinizing. All that is happening here, is Obama being villanized for a small mispoken statement.

At least it is pretty hard to interpret the whole storm in a thimble in a different way.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4033
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 37):
Merely the fact that he had this relationship with his grandfather was later exploited for political points

Why shouldnt Obama use his background for his so-called political gain from time to time?

After all, everyone else is trying to use it against him, again for so-called political gain.

It *is* his background, he should be able to use it as he wishes.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9199
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 34):
If Obama had a grandfather who served in the war,

Thread title is
Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

this is getting confusing.
Was this WWII thing about BHO's father or his grandfather?

   
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
Was this WWII thing about BHO's father or his grandfather?

Please RT*T. It is about his grandfather who, for most of his childhood, raised him like a father.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4033
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 41):
Thread title is
Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

this is getting confusing.
Was this WWII thing about BHO's father or his grandfather?

Its not confusing at all, if you read whats been written.

Obama grew up with, essentially, three men playing the role of father in his life.

Barack Obama, Sr - his biological father.
Lolo Soetoro - his step father, when his mother divorced Barack Obama Sr and remarried.
Stanley Armour Dunham - his maternal grandfather and the man who served in WW2.

Obama lived with his biological father for less than three years (birth to three years or so), his step father for six years (years three to nine or so) and his grandfather for the next eight years.

Its no wonder that he calls the person who spent the most time in the role of father, his "father".
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:17 pm

This video was uploaded in 2008. Why is suddenly being discussed now?

Quoting geezer (Thread starter):
My question is......would you vote for someone who gives speeches on TV and tells bare-faced lies ?

Its not like Romney ever lies, is it....  

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
At the time, that's what the intel said.

No, that is what some of the intel said.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 11):
That's what he "knew" at the time. It wasn't a lie; lying means flat-out saying something you know to be false, and that wasn't the case for Bush.

Bush insisted that there is WMDs in Iraq, not that there is LIKELY to be. Big difference. More specifically he said:

Quote:
Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

When infact there was doubt and uncertainty (much of the intelligence came from a single Iraqi dissident, Curveball, who claimed to have been a chemical weapons engineer). If he had said that 'the balance of intelligence from the our nation and our allies suggests that Iraq still has WMDs' then he would be telling the truth. But he didn't so at the very least he told a white lie, but by your definition it is just a straight lie.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
It took extremely aggressive massaging, misinterpretations and willful dismissal of clear evidence to come to the false conclusions. By themselves, the facts never warranted an invasion, not even back then.

  

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Perhaps it is time for another one of these:

  

Quoting moo (Reply 32):
A better topic on this would be "Should Obama refer to his Grandfather as his Father in public, considering this is the sort of public confusion it creates, opening him up to attacks from those who have nothing better to do?" - that would foster a better discussion, rather than an instant refutation and then a descent into "he said, she said".

I agree. From a short 17second videoclip its difficult to ascertain what situation he is speaking in. If it was an impromptu or 'off the cuff remark' in response to a question, then Mr Obama is probably just referring to his grandfather by the way he knew him. If it was in the middle of a speech (likely read of a printed script or teleprompter), then it was probably done on purpose. Obviously it is unwise to call his grandfather 'father' because of the confusion it creates, however if (as I suspect) he is speaking unscripted, its highly likely that one would make such a mistake. (When casually talking with friends, I've accidentally called my godfather a stepfather a number of times).
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 40):

Agree, he should. Never indicated that he shouldn't.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting geezer (Reply 13):
have run around the world, shooting themselves in the foot, and making asses of themselves; "W" hasn't done that; he's sitting out in Crawford grinning, and really doesn't care what anyone on here thinks of him !

Probably because I doubt he'll ever leave the US, he's probably too chicken, chances are if he did end up somewhere else he'd be arrested, plus nobody would believe a word he said, he has very little if any credibility outside the US.

Quoting geezer (Reply 13):
But did he "lie" about Saddam having WMD's ? Let me tell you something........you're a very bright, very intelligent young guy; I've known that for almost two years now; so if you are able to just put your "feelings" aside for a bit, and ask yourself this; what exactly does any POTUS really "know" ?

The POTUS should know a lot,.

Quoting geezer (Reply 13):
You weren't "here yet" during the Cuban Missile Crises;

I've never seen the point in the Cuban missile crisis, it was all about US paranoia, the US had nukes ringing the Soviet Union so what was the big deal about them getting some nice an close to the US, plus with the advent of the guided missile sub the Ruskies could park up real close and hose down the US pretty easily, at least with missiles on Cuba you knew where they were.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4033
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 45):
Agree, he should. Never indicated that he shouldn't.

Sorry, mistook your comment then - it was ambiguous as to whether you were supporting one side or the other, and I chose to read it in a certain way so I could make my point  
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 2:29 pm

I'll go a step further, without reading any of the above posts.....President (then Senator) Obama knew precisely what he was saying and knew that he'd be castigated by some for appearing to lie. He further knew that upon further review he would be made to appear as a more sympathetic character because he regarded his grandfather as his father because he was "abandoned by his biological father", which iis fundamentally true.

I would be very surprised if this wasnt a calculated move on his part, much like his visit to Afghanistan yesterday which resulted in 4 deaths already from reprisal attacks by the folks he says his administration has been engaging....

Just sayin'....
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4618
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: Obama; "My Father Served In WW 2" True Or False

Wed May 02, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting geezer (Reply 13):

1. I don't dislike Bush. I only criticize his policies of starting a war that shouldn't have been started in the first place and which raised the deficit; policies of giving tax cuts without finding a way to fund them or make up lost revenue; policies of being hawkish and being unilateral instead of giving diplomacy a chance. How I view a person has nothing to do on whether I agree/disagree with his/her views. Let's get that straight. I'm not like others who jump at the chance to find something new (and often times senseless) to blame on him, but you can't hide what's been done.

2. You have history on your side. Good to know.

However, what does everything you said have to do with the topic at hand? What does the Cuban Missile Crisis or WW2 or the Korean War have to do with Obama misspeaking? If what you're doing is proving my point that a lie by president can lead to total annihilation, then good. Otherwise, this "lie" didn't hurt anybody and is just another excuse to portray Obama as unfit to be president.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PacificBeach88 and 23 guests