User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Wed May 02, 2012 6:49 pm

Socialist François Hollande is poised to beat incumbent conservative Nicolas Sarkozy Sunday the 6th. Tonight, we'll see the two debating for the first time in many years. They know each other quite well, they were already debating on TV in 1993 ! Sarkozy has said in private that he will "crush him" about Hollande, something I doubt will happen.

What are your thoughts ?

http://hfr-rehost.net/http://gillesjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/00-affiches-hollande-sarkozy.jpg
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting Aesma (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts ?

After watching about 15 minutes of the debate, I think this is Hollande's election to loose. I was expecting Hollande to loose the debate badly however he actually held out quite well. Marine Le Pen said she would cast a blank vote on Sunday, which is a big loss for Sarkozy. Personally I support Hollande, but I'm not too fussed if Sarkozy wins. France could do a lot worse.
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4904
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 2:24 am

This will be a very interesting election. Along with the Greek election outcome, this might decide whether the euro stays as a currency or begins its downward spiral.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 5:25 am

I enjoyed the debate. As I thought, Hollande was up to it, and managed to be very incisive, even turning low blows like the mention of DSK to its advantage. Sarkozy was equal to himself, his supporters liked him, I'm not convinced a lot of voters will have changed their minds last night. The poor skills of the president at French are really annoying, when he's not reading a speech written by a writer.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
RAGAZZO777
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:33 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 6:27 am

I could not watch the debate between Hollande and Sarko, but I definitely want Hollande to win this election. Le changement c'est maintenant !!
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
This will be a very interesting election. Along with the Greek election outcome, this might decide whether the euro stays as a currency or begins its downward spiral.

Last night Sarkozy said that thanks to his actions Greece didn't disappear  Wow! Nobody seemed to notice. Anyway, I don't think the French election would change anything for Greece, and even for the Euro it seems Sarkozy is quickly changing towards the idea of a growth component to the treaty, as are a lot of important people in the Union.

I watch a daily TV show called "C'est dans l'air" (It's in the air) with one hot topic per day, currently mostly the election, but in the last year often the crisis, and for the first time last week in a show about the crisis from the point of view of the election, I saw economists, including a pair that are right-wing, saying that the only way out of the Euro crisis is a renegotiation of the debt of ALL member countries, shaving it by 20-30%. They also mentioned that the US would probably do the same thing, too.

Interesting times lie ahead, for sure !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Dano1977
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 11:22 am

I'm not a follower of French politics, but what is Hollande's stance on Europe.

Is he the kind of guy that will cosy up to Merkle like Sarko did?
Children should only be allowed on aircraft if 1. Muzzled and heavily sedated 2. Go as freight
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4904
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
Anyway, I don't think the French election would change anything for Greece, and even for the Euro it seems Sarkozy is quickly changing towards the idea of a growth component to the treaty, as are a lot of important people in the Union.

Well, the election won't affect Greece but definitely the euro. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mr. Hollande who mentioned that he would not put France to participate in any other bailouts? I believe he disagreed with the way euro-zone countries are dealing with their debt crisis, which would put him on a collision course with Germany.

Anyway, this along with Greece's election (where if the two main parties can't obtain a majority by forming their own coalition, the future of Greece's euro-zone membership will be questioned) will determine how the euro will perform.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Well, he's been saying for months that he wants to renegotiate the latest treaty being adopted in 26 countries, that Sarkozy and Merkel consider their gem, so he's not exactly seen as a friend. He has the support of Germany's opposition, the SPD. If Merkel doesn't bulge, it's possible he'll bet on her being ousted in 2013 (or even before if elections are called).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 5:32 pm

I watched a good part of the debate and was shocked by Hollande aggressiveness constantly cutting off Sarkozy and never letting him finish what he had to say from one end to the other.

This is not a way to behave for a man who pretends to hold the Presidency for the next 5 years. He obviously showed his lack of talent as a negotiator with someone who may not have the same opinion as him. I can only imagine what it will be like if he finds himself face to face with Mrs Merkel. It will be catastrophic.

Sarkozy always remained calm while F. Hollande showed his impulsive nature constantly cutting Sarkozy off on what he had to say. Hollande is ill mannered. He is all about himself only and on the borderline of paranoia. He showed no respect for the man who was facing him. Having different policies is one thing but showing respect for the other person is crucial.

The fact that Hollande said he will tax (I'd rather say overtax) those with the most money will encourage these who have the most money to flee the country taking their money away with them and outsourcing their production to other less socialistic countries where labour laws are not as stringent and they will be charged less or even no taxes. I would do the same in a flash.

Hollande speaks the Socialist language fluently - one that has not been spoken in Europe for a long time. Taxation, redistrubution and off we go. The Socialist had tried to depict Sarkozy as "the ideal guilty man" and to show him the door - which I find extremely arrogant for someone who has never occupied any post of importance in his life and has no government record whatsoever.

F. Hollande never was given any post in any government. Nobody gave him any Ministries. Not Socialist President Mitterrand or any Socialist Prime Minister. The man has no experience aside from being a representative from the region of Correze -- which he bankrupted -- and a Mayor of the town of Tulle -- which he also bankrupted --.. He would go from this kind of record to becoming President of France for 5 years pretending to re-adjust the European treaty to his own taste contradicting Mrs Merkel policies -- he said it himself last evening in the debate -- something to which I will answer "good luck".

So much time in the debate was wasted over one nuclear plant in Alsace of which Hollande insisted he would close it down while Sarkozy said the plant was 30 years old but still in perfect running condition while Hollande said he would still shut it down. The two men argued over that one nuclear plant for almost 30 minutes as if this was a topic of utmost importance!

There was almost no discussing of foreign policy if any at all. We know Sarkozy's line from the last 5 years of his presidency but we have very little or no insight of how F. Hollande will face countries like China, Russia, India, the U.S., the countries of South East Asia (APEC). The only thing that were talked about was Afghanistan about which Holllande said he would withdraw French troops in 2012 not 2013 and countries in Africa.

I am at an age where I have seen more in my life than these two men simply as I am older than they are. I remember things of the past which they cannot remember as they were too young or even too little. I remember all the former French Presidents from René Coty (4th Republic) to Nicolas Sarkozy (today's 5th Republic). From all these great and less great men I can't remember any who had as little former experience as Frençois Hollande when they took the Presidency.

Of course he will not be running the country on his own. He will have all his Socialist friends and members of the old Socialist guard surrounding him. I doubt he will leave much room to any opponents and most of all -- should he win the election -- he will be the boss with the nuclear codes in hand and the last word to say on everything. I personally don't trust him - either him or his political associates - if anything really serious or dramatic happened to the country.

My verdict: I will not go to the vote on Sunday. I don't really want Sarkozy so I have no reason to vote for him. I want Hollande even less. If Hollande wins it won't be with my vote. If Sarkozy wins (which I would prefer as he has plenty of experience running the country and is respected by his peers in most other countries in the world) it will not be with my vote either although I would rather see him winning than Hollande...

and I really like Carla Bruni so I wish her to be in the Presidential palace another 5 years. She is wonderful, charming, beautiful, extremely rich (no need to steal public money) and she knows how to behave with Popes, Presidents and Royalty, highly regarded wherever she goes. I would vote for Carla Bruni in a flash!

Please people.. if you don't like Nicolas... think Carla! She is France's best asset!

My program on Sunday? I will stay home for part of the day and go out for a nice boat ride with local friends. I'll find out the winner via Twitter and the Swiss/Belgian media on Sunday evening.

I just hope good sense will prevail by not throwing France out to the unknown.

    
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 5:56 pm

Yes Hollande cut Sarkozy a few times, mainly because Sarkozy was saying falsehoods bigger than the Eiffel Tower, while accusing a dozen times Hollande of being a liar (is that what you call respect ?). Both showed they could raise their voice, but I found (and most commentators not being from either camp too) that the debate stayed respectful and calm.

As for Carla Bruni, I don't know in what world you live, but she has zero influence on the situation our country is facing, and that's good since nobody voted for her.

To Dano1977 : I'd like to add that Hollande has said that his first move after being elected would be to go see Merkel, so he considers the Franco-German axis important.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 7):
Well, the election won't affect Greece but definitely the euro. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Mr. Hollande who mentioned that he would not put France to participate in any other bailouts? I believe he disagreed with the way euro-zone countries are dealing with their debt crisis, which would put him on a collision course with Germany.

If by bailout you mean "we take some of your debt but you slash your pensions and salaries in half" then yes. Otherwise he's for the Eurobonds, which are a kind of bailout, and opposed by Angela Merkel.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
GrahamHill
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:35 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):

I watched a good part of the debate and was shocked by Hollande aggressiveness constantly cutting off Sarkozy and never letting him finish what he had to say from one end to the other.

Same here. Hollande has been extremely annoying all evening long.

If Hollande is elected, it will be a choice by default from the French. They are more tired of Sarkozy than actually convinced Hollande can do a better job.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
RAGAZZO777
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:33 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
If Hollande is elected, it will be a choice by default from the French. They are more tired of Sarkozy than actually convinced Hollande can do a better job.

        

Exactly !
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 7:50 pm

I'm not really enthusiastic about Hollande either (nor was I about his ex Royal, but I still did vote twice for her, while I voted three times for someone else than Hollande so far, in the primary and the first round of the election), but don't forget there is a crisis. I don't see any leader recently elected in a country in crisis being put in power with enthusiasm. Some weren't even elected !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mandala499
Posts: 6460
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
If Hollande is elected, it will be a choice by default from the French. They are more tired of Sarkozy than actually convinced Hollande can do a better job.

Sounds like when Obama went for the elections!    Only, it was about choosing from two Hollandes...   
If Hollande uses the same tagline, "change you can count on" or "change you can depend on"... he'll fit right in! Except, good change or bad change?
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
Some weren't even elected !

I would not compare Hollande and Mario Monti as they have nothing in common.

Mario Monti like him or not is a man with a long experience and a brilliant career. I don't see any former brilliant career for Hollande. He bankrupted the city of which he was the Mayor (Tulle) and the Region of which he is a representative (Corrèze).

The now Italian Prime MInister is a highly regarded economist and academic. Rector and President of the highest rated university in Milano and a former Minister of Economy and Finance. He served as a European Commissioner for 10 years under Santer and Prodi and also appointed a Senator for life.

Mario Monti was invited by the Italian President to form a technical government after Silvio Berlusconi's resignation. I only wish we had a Mario Monti for next French President but it is not the case.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 9:04 pm

Appointed a senator for life, not elected, exactly what I was saying. Would he have made it in an election ? No need to cite the talking points of the UMP on Hollande, Corrèze had a big debt before he took its helm, and it only increased by 15%. How much has the French debt risen under Sarkozy ? Did you notice how François Bayrou, whose only project was the debt, the debt, the debt, is announcing he'll vote Hollande ? Hollande hasn't been a minister for several reasons, one of them being of course that his party has been in the opposition for ten years. There is no doubt that had Jospin won in 2002, he would have gotten a ministerial job. All in all he's a typical carrier politician, just like Sarkozy and every other major candidate in France has been for decades.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):

I watched a good part of the debate and was shocked by Hollande aggressiveness constantly cutting off Sarkozy and never letting him finish what he had to say from one end to the other.

Sarkozy did the same.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Sarkozy always remained calm

Not in the debate that I watched...

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
The fact that Hollande said he will tax (I'd rather say overtax) those with the most money will encourage these who have the most money to flee the country taking their money away with them and outsourcing their production to other less socialistic countries where labour laws are not as stringent and they will be charged less or even no taxes. I would do the same in a flash.

I thought you lived in Monaco anyway.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
I will not go to the vote on Sunday.

Me neither. While I hold the legal right to vote, I feel that I don't have the moral right to vote because I'm not currently living in France. Still, I like Hollande (mildly more than Sarkozy) so I'm hoping he wins. Neither of them are as good as Jacques Chirac unfortunately.  
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
Derico
Posts: 4219
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Thu May 03, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
I'm not convinced a lot of voters will have changed their minds last night. The poor skills of the president at French are really annoying, when he's not reading a speech written by a writer.



Interesting you mention this. Even though I am far from achieving non-native French fluency, I also could gather that Sarkozy does not have the rhetorical eloquence Hollande commands. Nonetheless, I think Sarkozy was good at getting tersely to the main points. Hollande was a bit more elliptical, but at times much better at framing issues perspicuously. His objections to the ECB lending to private banks for nothing so that they "usury" (my word) governments at 6% rates was a trenchant, cogent argument. I did think he was a bit excessive with interrupting, but Sarkozy did resort to impugn Hollande often, so those two things cancel out.

I thought it was an extremely informative debate, with the caveat that most of what they discussed was fairly new information to me and not something I've heard 50 times like most people in France surely have.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 11:00 am

Today is the day. The latest polls (from Friday, since politics is banned during the week-end) show Hollande winning 52/53% and Sarkozy 47/48%. The only time a sitting president lost a reelection is in 1981 when François Mitterrand got 51,76% against Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, so 52% would be a good victory, and 53% a large one.

Derico : yes, the arguments and numbers were very much known, in fact Sarkozy used numbers that had already been proved wrong.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 4:12 pm

Flanby at 52,6 Euros.

From Twitter feeds using code language F. Hollande is given as the winner of the French Presidential election 2 hours before the closing of polls.

Swiss and Belgian news sites are confirming Hollande victory.

www.lalibre.be/l-actu-principale-de-ce-jour/

http://www.lesoir.be/

http://www.tdg.ch/

 Wow!

[Edited 2012-05-06 09:41:40]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 5:48 pm

France gets a socialist president, 17 years after F. Mitterand!

Congratulations, President Hollande!
 
helvknight
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 5:59 pm

5 minutes to go on France 2 and the Place de la Bastille, traditional meeting point of the Left on these occasions is packed while the Place de la Concorde (where the right hand out) is deserted.

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
helvknight
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:00 pm

20:00 on France 2.

Francoise Hollande with 51.9%.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:05 pm

Mes félicitations, M. Hollande!

I'm curious about the future development of the Franco-German relationship... "Mommy" can't be too happy, which makes me very happy! 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
helvknight
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 24):
"Mommy" can't be too happy, which makes me very happy!

"Mommy" has her own problems, looking at the elections in Schleswig Holstein. 
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting helvknight (Reply 25):
"Mommy" has her own problems, looking at the elections in Schleswig Holstein.

...and the upcoming ones in Nordrhein-Westfalen.    I'll be doing my part to make life just a little bit more difficult for her.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:41 pm

Hollande is not my president.

My vote went to Michael Schumacher
greatest Formula 1 driver of all times.

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:55 pm

Congratulation to Monsieur Le president Francois Holland and hasta never Sarkozy!
Vive le socialisme
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 6:57 pm

Oh well...

Vive la France molle.

Spain, here we come!
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
flyingturtle
Posts: 4777
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:03 pm

Je suis heureux de cette élection! Félicitations, Monsieur le Président Hollande!

I think him to be a more honest president than Sarko, even when it is to the detriment of the "European" cause and Angela Merkel. We simply cannot design bigger and bigger schemes to save the finance sector. We have to think hard about the future of Europe, and the EU should not be reduced to an economic union, but it should stand as a union we citizen can be proud of.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
GDB
Posts: 12680
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:12 pm

How will F. Hollande deal with Frau Markel?

Interesting to see that during the campaign, both Hollande and Sarko visited the '6th biggest French city', that is, in terms of population, which is London! (Sarko was here in 2007. Royale maybe had turned her nose up at such an idea).

This large French diaspora are not, unlike the British in France, often retirees seeking a quiet, rural, place in the sun, neither are they the stereotypical immigrants doing low skill, low paid, entry level jobs the natives deem to be below them.
No, they are often in the City Of London, or teachers, in publishing, running businesses, setting up their own SME's.

Sarko came in 2007 not just to garner their votes but to encourage some of them back home, to apply their skills and talents, the demographic of them is also young.
Clearly he did not succeed in this, maybe the 2008 financial crisis derailed that and much more, you'd think so with those in the financial sector at least.

But the question perhaps should be, will Hollande do any better?
I'm of course only using Franco-London as a symbol to a wider problem, it's a valid one perhaps?
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9222
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):

The leader of the "Free Lunch" has been elected. The bill for that "free" lunch will be due in about 2 or 3 years and it will include a big tip. Then all Hell will break loose.


 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:22 pm

It will be interesting to watch if and how Hollande will get a handle on France's difficulties.

I sincerely wish him – and France – the best of luck with it!

I have little doubt that he will find a way for constructive cooperation with Angela Merkel; They might get along quite decently outside of the usual exaggerations of an election campaign.

Sarkozy was usually entertaining, but that alone is not enough to win the highest office…!
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4904
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 21):
France gets a socialist president, 17 years after F. Mitterand!

Congratulations, President Hollande!

So much for the current trend of electing right-wing governments in Europe. That's a topic I'm discussing with some people on Facebook (they think all left-wingers, especially European Socialists are a danger and ever since Spain put in a Conservative government, they claim that the right will dominate the world scenario).

Nevertheless, congratulations to president-elect Hollande.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 30):
I think him to be a more honest president than Sarko, even when it is to the detriment of the "European" cause and Angela Merkel. We simply cannot design bigger and bigger schemes to save the finance sector.

Au contraire! I think it's going to be very much to the benefit of the EU if the political focus is shifted from the financial markets to the citizens. Corporations left, right and centre have been declared "too big to fail" (or rather "system-relevant" in fluent Politician) and the citizens made to bleed for their rescue. If we manage to reduce our dependence on this largest ever casino, we will all be better off for it.

Quoting GDB (Reply 31):
I'm of course only using Franco-London as a symbol to a wider problem, it's a valid one perhaps?

I don't necessarily think of it as a problem. Intra-EU migration is, IMHO, jst as normal as domestic migration. It's a single market, so you go where you can find the best environment for your personal success. My brother lives and works in France, my better half studies in Hungary and my own university course is full of people from international backgrounds. Those and many other examples show me that migration comes natural to us.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
They might get along quite decently outside of the usual exaggerations of an election campaign.

 checkmark  Mittérand and Kohl weren't "enemies" either... quite the opposite, IIRC.

[Edited 2012-05-06 12:38:50]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:04 pm

Obviously the people have spoken in France, or at least the ones that vote and are rejecting the relatively conservative politics of Sarkozy.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 32):
francoflier (Reply 29):The leader of the "Free Lunch" has been elected. The bill for that "free" lunch will be due in about 2 or 3 years and it will include a big tip. Then all Hell will break loose.

Voters in almost all EU countries as well as the USA, Canada and Japan want more subsidies from government but no one wants to pay for them. No one can afford to continue to increase national debt. No politician can raise taxes on anyone. No one in government wants to lose their jobs or benefits. The rich pay off the politicians to prevent raising taxes on them or they will vote with their feet and leave. Manufacturing has been shifted to Asia to hold down product costs killing jobs and growth. The era of the 'free lunch' is over but most voters cannot accept that, they still want to hang on to a past that is gone. Throw in legal and illegal immigration (and in the EC, the ability of workers to move from country to country), higher energy costs, people living longer and less healthy and you have need to change but no one who wants to.

Good luck to President-elect Hollande but he is going to face a battle over money and political popularity that may break him in the end.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 32):
The leader of the "Free Lunch" has been elected. The bill for that "free" lunch will be due in about 2 or 3 years and it will include a big tip. Then all Hell will break loose.

That is delusional propaganda. Historically it's more often the progressive governments who have to clean up the ideological messes and particularly the financial fallout of their conservative predecessors than the other way around.

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):
Au contraire! I think it's going to be very much to the benefit of the EU if the political focus is shifted from the financial markets to the citizens. Corporations left, right and centre have been declared "too big to fail" (or rather "system-relevant" in fluent Politician) and the citizens made to bleed for their rescue. If we manage to reduce our dependence on this largest ever casino, we will all be better off for it.

  
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5455
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:28 pm

For the sake of the EU economy and the whole botched Euro project I hoped the less socialist candidate wins.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 34):
they think all left-wingers, especially European Socialists are a danger and ever since Spain put in a Conservative government, they claim that the right will dominate the world scenario

I'd say their notoriety to spend money they did not earn are a luxury Europe can't really afford right now.

Quoting sabenapilot (Reply 21):
France gets a socialist president, 17 years after F. Mitterand!

Who would have thought it has been 17 years already, if one was to judge based on policies Frances pushes for socialists have never left the Elyseé.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
Historically it's more often the progressive governments who have to clean up the ideological messes and particularly the financial fallout of their conservative predecessors than the other way around.

"Progressive"... LOL! Is that what lefties like to call themselves?
 
GDB
Posts: 12680
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):
I don't necessarily think of it as a problem. Intra-EU migration is, IMHO, jst as normal as domestic migration. It's a single market, so you go where you can find the best environment for your personal success.

I agree, though when you get to the point of London being the 6th largest French city population wise, something else is at play here.
You'd think that with the single currency, the long Franco-German compact within the EU, a work/life culture elsewhere in Europe that is more like France than the UK is, if there was such a large French presence it would be on the mainland. Even allowing for the tunnel.

It just seems to me a long way from when the only French that ordinary people in London encountered were like the teenage French students on school sponsored trips to England to stay with families, like the young lady my parents took in, whom we've kept in touch with, met up with, over the four decades since.
Or through marriage, a former boss of mine married a French girl. During a previous French election, in the 1990's, I asked if his wife was voting. 'Yes, but she don't reckon the main parties, she's voting for a small one whose only policy is the overthrow of the state!'
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 38):
"Progressive"... LOL! Is that what lefties like to call themselves?

It's simply the objective distinction to "conservative".
 
einsteinboricua
Posts: 4904
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 38):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 34):
they think all left-wingers, especially European Socialists are a danger and ever since Spain put in a Conservative government, they claim that the right will dominate the world scenario

I'd say their notoriety to spend money they did not earn are a luxury Europe can't really afford right now.

Well, austerity is only threatening to put the entire region in recession, so what is the happy medium?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
flyingturtle
Posts: 4777
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):

That's what I wanted to say.  

Interesting times lie ahead, also with the Pirates gaining votes and perhaps replacing the FDP in Germany!


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 42):
Interesting times lie ahead, also with the Pirates gaining votes and perhaps replacing the FDP in Germany!

In various parliaments? Yes, most likely.

In any governments? Maybe some day, but not sooner than a few years ahead, if they make it that long.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 36):
Good luck to President-elect Hollande but he is going to face a battle over money and political popularity that may break him in the end.

That is certainly a possibility. Hollande has just won one of the most difficult jobs in the world and, not unlike Obama, he will leave lots of people disappointed. How this will play out is anybody's guess.

Quoting GDB (Reply 39):
I agree, though when you get to the point of London being the 6th largest French city population wise, something else is at play here.

Well, London is extremely attractive and the French call everything outside Paris "the province" (as in "the sticks") and flock to the Île-de-France. The result is that the sixth largest city in France is Nantes with a population of less than 300.000. When compared to similar statistics for the UK or Germany, that is quite small indeed.

Quoting GDB (Reply 39):
You'd think that with the single currency, the long Franco-German compact within the EU, a work/life culture elsewhere in Europe that is more like France than the UK is, if there was such a large French presence it would be on the mainland. Even allowing for the tunnel.

But is there any other city in the EU that is as huge and attractive as London?   I think that's your answer, really. Over the past decades, London has enjoyed phenomenal successes and it attracts "elites" from everywhere in the world. The French have a rather elitist higher education system, but the Grandes Écoles to which I am referring do admit lots of students. So perhaps the French end up with more "elite" graduates than they need in their own coutry.

Quoting GDB (Reply 39):
It just seems to me a long way from when the only French that ordinary people in London encountered

Like I said, those days are well and truly over - particularly in the UK which (to my knowledge) never employed the somewhat hypocritical practice to limit immigration from new EU members in eastern Europe.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 36):
Voters in almost all EU countries as well as the USA, Canada and Japan want more subsidies from government but no one wants to pay for them. No one can afford to continue to increase national debt. No politician can raise taxes on anyone. No one in government wants to lose their jobs or benefits. The rich pay off the politicians to prevent raising taxes on them or they will vote with their feet and leave. Manufacturing has been shifted to Asia to hold down product costs killing jobs and growth. The era of the 'free lunch' is over but most voters cannot accept that, they still want to hang on to a past that is gone. Throw in legal and illegal immigration (and in the EC, the ability of workers to move from country to country), higher energy costs, people living longer and less healthy and you have need to change but no one who wants to.

Absolutely.

Quoting aloges (Reply 35):
I think it's going to be very much to the benefit of the EU if the political focus is shifted from the financial markets to the citizens.

Financials institutions, investment banks and Wall street brokers are the very least of Europe's problem.
The thing is, if Hollande's presidential campaign was anything to go by, politicians love to point fingers at the big bad greedy banks as the cause of all our problems. They're not. The financial crisis is over.
Our real problem comes from nowhere else but ourselves. We've encouraged governments who rode the gravy train for decades thinking we'd keep being loaned money forever. Our nation's debt has always been growing higher and we kept being lent money because we still had 'relevant' economies with some production. But this has changed.

Bankers have played demi-gods with the world's money before and got bit by it, but I can't blame them for not wanting to keep lending us anymore.
'Too big to fail' doesn't apply to corporation only. We're starting to reach the sour realization that governments can be unsolvable too.

Instead of blaming those shameful immoral bankers, we should start looking at the ridiculous figure on our own debt counter and get down from that silver cloud we seem to be flying on.
But It seems the penny hasn't dropped yet.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
We're starting to reach the sour realization that governments can be unsolvable too.

Just to clarify, did you mean "insolvent"?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
Instead of blaming those shameful immoral bankers, we should start looking at the ridiculous figure on our own debt counter and get down from that silver cloud we seem to be flying on.
But It seems the penny hasn't dropped yet.

I'm sorry, but credit default swaps, short selling, junk bonds and the like were not inventions of governments. They were created by bankers trying to increase their profits (and hence salaries). It worked and it is still working, but only because nobody has the political will and ability to stop it.

It is, of course, true that even governments can't spend without consequences. They may try to devalue their debts through inflation, but that'll only make things worse. But we have had decades of deficit spending and we cannot expect to end the practice abruptly without dire consequences - it does need to end, but gradually. The result of excessive austerity is always social unrest, as may be witnessed in Greece (where today's election made hardline socialists the second strongest party in the national parliament).
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Topic Author
Posts: 7960
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 9:37 pm

After two bottles of champagne I'm a little drunk so I won't say much, just that I'm happy for my country, hopefully politics can be more serious again with our new Président François Hollande. Thanks to Nicolas Sarkozy for a good speech without too much rancor.

Currently there are parties across the country, with popular artists like Yannick Noah offering a show.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
The financial crisis is over.

Not remotely. Just a few of the most acute sub-crises have been reduced to a slower burn, most likely just temporarily, though.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
Our real problem comes from nowhere else but ourselves. We've encouraged governments who rode the gravy train for decades thinking we'd keep being loaned money forever.

Progressively lowering taxes and borrowing the money back from the same people whose taxes had just been lowered is the crucial mistake at the heart of the global crisis of public finance: It basically shifted the burden from corporations and wealthy citizens down to the actually remaining taxpayers, which is mostly the middle class.

Since middle class income has been squeezed and people being pushed down into low-wage jobs at the same time, however, that approach is by now pretty much at its end, resulting in fiscal, social and political crises which are increasingly getting explosive. Just look at today's greek election results to get an inkling on where things can go.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 45):
Instead of blaming those shameful immoral bankers, we should start looking at the ridiculous figure on our own debt counter and get down from that silver cloud we seem to be flying on.
But It seems the penny hasn't dropped yet.

Taxes will need to be re-adjusted and financial deregulation needs to be reined in again. I agree that the penny has not dropped yet for most.

Yes, curbing of waste and overspending remain necessary at the same time, but the primary root of the problem lies elsewhere. Only the richest can afford the cut-down and effectively paralyzed state conservatives and econo-liberals have been striving for pretty much since the 1980s, to the disastrous results we observe today.

[Edited 2012-05-06 14:41:23]
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 2430
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

RE: French Republic Presidential Election 2nd Round

Sun May 06, 2012 10:42 pm

Congratulations to Mr Hollande, I wish him well with his new job. Now, time for the hard work to begin...

Quoting aloges (Reply 46):
The result of excessive austerity is always social unrest

and a decline/standstill in economic growth.
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: flyguy89, salttee and 12 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos