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stasisLAX
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GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 2:26 am

2013 Chevrolet "Commodore" Sedan



General Motors wants more rear-wheel drive vehicles in its lineup and has plans to bring more to America, including a new RWD Chevrolet sedan, a station wagon, and perhaps even a ute (aka a new El Camino) and the currently Chinese market only Buick Park Avenue.

GM already sells a rear-wheel-drive Chevrolet sedan in the U.S., but only sells them to police departments and municipal governments. The Chevrolet Caprice "PPV" is based on the long-wheelbase version of the Australian Holden Commodore.

Now, GM will build a civilian version of the the Caprice PPV and market it as the Chevrolet "SuperSport" sedan. Under the hood is GM's 6.2-liter V-8 (with advanced "displacement on demand" cylinder deactivation) creating more than 400 horsepower. The SuperSport badge will also go onto Chevrolet's NASCAR racing entry in 2013.

Automotive press reports this week (from numerous sources) state that after the V8 SuperSport appears in Chevy dealerships, a more fuel-efficient 300-horsepower 3.6-liter V-6 model will follow it to market. By 2015, when the SuperSport/Commodore rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform is updated, production of this vehicle (as well as the Caprice PPV) will also come to the United States, opening up the market for more police car sales, as some local and state governments will only buy American-made cruisers. Some municipalities and states are required to buy American-made vehicles by state law.

Here's even better news, motorheads: GM will likely build a rear-wheel-drive station wagon as well as a sport-utility (aka Holden Ute) model. The updated Holden-engineered Zeta platform that Chevy utilizes for the Caprice (called the Zeta 2 inside General Motors) can handle all of these vehicles, Another distinct possibility is that Buick will also get a variant of the Zeta 2 platform, possibly a replacement of the currently "Chinese market only" Buick Park Avenue luxury sedan.

Really, all of these vehicles are derivatives of the deceased Pontiac G8, which continues to be sold as the Holden Commodore in several international markets. Chevrolet is simply picking up Pontiac's gameplan for the G8, and running with it in order to compete the growing number of larger rear-wheel drive sedans offered to American buyers. The new SuperSport will compete with the Dodge Charger, Kia K9, the Hyundai Genesis, and so on.

Source: http://blog.caranddriver.com/chevrol...-possible-for-next-gen-on-zeta-ii/

[Edited 2012-05-03 19:27:05]
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Newark727
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 2:43 am

A wagon based off the Holden family? That's pretty bold. I'd buy it if I had the gas money.
 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 3:24 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):

Now, GM will build a civilian version of the the Caprice PPV and market it as the Chevrolet "SuperSport" sedan. Under the hood is GM's 6.2-liter V-8 (with advanced "displacement on demand" cylinder deactivation) creating more than 400 horsepower. The SuperSport badge will also go onto Chevrolet's NASCAR racing entry in 2013.

I believe it will be off the short-wheelbase VF Commodore V8, but not a 6.2L V8.

I also believe there will be one version with a rear-mounted sequential gearbox made by an Australian manufacturer based in Victoria.

I'm not sure if the USA will get that model. I understand it will be an expensive, top of the range model. I also don't know if it will be a volume production model or a limited edition.

The new cars have been seen out and about in various locations (including Sweden) wearing heavy disguise and temporary headlights and tail-lights, indicating that Holden is doing something a bit eye-catching for the headlight and tail-light designs to go with the alloy body panels.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):
The new cars have been seen out and about in various locations (including Sweden) wearing heavy disguise and temporary headlights and tail-lights, indicating that Holden is doing something a bit eye-catching for the headlight and tail-light designs to go with the alloy body panels.

I wish Holden would take over command and control of GM here in the US. GM Detriot is so full of ex-Proctor and Gamble marketing execs that are not genuine car people (Like over @ Ford). They killed Pontiac. Unforgivable. I don't trust GM management as far as the wind can blow them. I used to be a real solid GM guy. Heck, I've owned an AC Delco service center over 20 yrs but now, i'm liking whats going on over at the blue oval.   
I wouldn't hold my breath on expecting anything GM says to appear.
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BMI727
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
General Motors wants more rear-wheel drive vehicles in its lineup and has plans to bring more to America, including a new RWD Chevrolet sedan,

Good.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
a station wagon,

Good.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
perhaps even a ute (aka a new El Camino)

Keep it.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Now, GM will build a civilian version of the the Caprice PPV and market it as the Chevrolet "SuperSport" sedan.

Stupid name. Why not just call it the Caprice? Or the Commodore or Statesman if they want a name less familiar to Americans?
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 2):
I believe it will be off the short-wheelbase VF Commodore V8, but not a 6.2L V8.

  

Yes, the reports are saying the SuperSport (SS) will be on the short-wheelbase version, not the Caprice's longer-wheelbase "WM" platform. In its most basic form, the new SS is a bow-tie badged version of the now-dead Pontiac G8. The Park Avenue variant (if built) would almost certainly be on the larger wheelbase, like the Caprice cruiser utilizes.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 8:53 am

Although I've never understood the purpose of a 'truck' on a car platform, it's still in the right direction. I'm glad that they're talking about a possible wagon on this platform being available in the United States. I hope it gets woodgrain side panels as well.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
I wish Holden would take over command and control of GM here in the US.

  

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
GM Detriot is so full of ex-Proctor and Gamble marketing execs that are not genuine car people (Like over @ Ford)

I thought GM was now ran by lawyers and other government bureaucrats.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
Heck, I've owned an AC Delco service center over 20 yrs but now, i'm liking whats going on over at the blue oval.

Working on a Lincoln Town Car and Ford Torino will make you fall in love with the blue oval.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Or the Commodore or Statesman if they want a name less familiar to Americans?

How about the Kingswood?
Perhaps that can be very popular in some circles.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
really, all of these vehicles are derivatives of the Holden Commodore, which used to be sold as the Pontiac G8 in the North American market.

Fixed it for you.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
and the currently Chinese market only Buick Park Avenue.

It's not just Chinese market, the same car is sold in the US as your Chevy Caprise PPV, in Aus and NZ as the Holden Statesman and in Korea as the Daewoo Veritas

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 5):
The Park Avenue variant (if built) would almost certainly be on the larger wheelbase, like the Caprice cruiser utilizes.

Here's your Buick Park Avenue, it's already built.

http://www.carautoportal.com/car-images/buick/buick-park-avenue/buick-park-avenue.jpg

and the Daewoo Veritas

http://www.dieselstation.com/wallpapers/albums/Daewoo/Veritas/Daewoo-Veritas-widescreen-17.jpg

and the Chevy Caprise PPV



and the Holden Caprise

http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/holden-caprice/holden-caprice-09.jpg


Holden Commodore Ute

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/truck-news/gms-reuss-hints-holden-ute-could-come-stateside/31081562/holden-ute-pickup.jpg

Holden Commodore Sportswagon



and what they are all based on the Holden Commodore

 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 5:25 pm

I really like the Holden Commodore Ute, yeah it looks likes the El Camino, but so what! I liked the El Camino! I drove a Ute the last time I was in Australia and aside from the right hand drive, I really liked it!   

I'd like to see it with 4WD or AWD, I'd put some aftermarket suspension on it to raise it off the ground just a little bit more and soup up the engine! I was thinking a Paxton Supercharger will hopefully fit under the hood! That's of course presuming it has a V8!

I really like the way the Australians design cars. We need them to send some engineers and designers to Detroit! Not that those idiots would listen!

Thanks for posting StasisLAX!

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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 04, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
I wouldn't hold my breath on expecting anything GM says to appear.

I'm thinking similarly; this seems to literally go against the current CAFE tide.

Maybe GM's banking on the law being either neutered or nuked some time next year and gas prices significantly dropping in the forseeable future.

Long story short (and forgive my being a "Doubting-Thomas' on this): I'll believe it when I actually see these models on the dealership lots (which would definitely be a good thing BTW).
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):
Long story short (and forgive my being a "Doubting-Thomas' on this): I'll believe it when I actually see these models on the dealership lots (which would definitely be a good thing BTW).

Maybe it's just our age that makes us jaded to auto company hype. Been let down too many times. I'm still waiting for the Mustang Sport Wagon that was supposed to appear in 1966!   
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 3:19 am

Let me give everybody a piece of advice that was common through the 1980's but was becoming irrelevant.

Never date a woman that drives an El Camino
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 4:21 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):
Maybe GM's banking on the law being either neutered or nuked some time next year and gas prices significantly dropping in the forseeable future.

Well, there is some hope. Oil dropped in price by $4 a barrel today and is back under $100 per barrel (and would be about $70 per barrel if it wasn't for the freakin' insane oil speculators in the marketplace!). And if Romney wins and Republicans figure out a way to control both houses of Congress, I think the existing CAFE standards will be killed off. We shall see.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 7):
Fixed it for you.

Very true! Pardon my American-centric viewpoint. While Holden is a GM subsidiary - all of these Zeta platform (Commodore/Caprice/Camaro/Park Avenue/SS/El Camino?) vehicles were engineered and developed by Holden in Australia. One question - is there any chance that the Monaro coupe will be revived? I mean, Holden had the cool Coupe 60 concept vehicle a few years ago, and we now know that the next-generation Ford Mustang has been engineered for international markets (both LHD and RHD versions will be built), which makes me wonder if the Monaro will be resurrected by Holden?
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 8:55 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 13):
One question - is there any chance that the Monaro coupe will be revived?

I don't think it sold very well, it was way to similar to the sedan, it didn't offer anything the sedan couldn't, they never made a convertible, I would have taken the Holden Ute over the Monaro any day.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 05, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Really, all of these vehicles are derivatives of the deceased Pontiac G8,

Wrong....the G8 was just a rebadged Holden not the other way around.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sun May 06, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
I don't think it sold very well,

Is this deliberate, or just erroneous information? They sold very well - and the car was very well received!

Production finished and it made the profits it needed to make. This was back in the day when Holden sales were very strong and the company made big profits.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Really, all of these vehicles are derivatives of the deceased Pontiac G8,


I'm afraid the person above is right - the G8 is only a restyled VE Commodore, which of course none of the North American GM divisions wanted at the start.

It appears the divisions fight against each other, rather than work with each-other. Much like Ford USA insiders always drop rumours of the death of Ford Australia production, always perfectly timed to match a new model release by Ford Australia.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 13):
Pardon my American-centric viewpoint. While Holden is a GM subsidiary - all of these Zeta platform (Commodore/Caprice/Camaro/Park Avenue/SS/El Camino?) vehicles were engineered and developed by Holden in Australia.

Don't worry, it's just a temporary set-back, I'm sure those in power in GM NA will figure out a way to kill off Holden. They've been trying for ages. Kill off Holden and feather the North American GM divisional nests..

[Edited 2012-05-05 18:33:39]
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sun May 06, 2012 6:43 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 16):

Is this deliberate, or just erroneous information? They sold very well - and the car was very well received!

Production finished and it made the profits it needed to make. This was back in the day when Holden sales were very strong and the company made big profits.

I don't believe it was a success for the very simple reason Holden didn't build a successor, if it was a successful model Holden would have built a forth Generation model based on the VE Commodore.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sun May 06, 2012 1:46 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):
I'm thinking similarly; this seems to literally go against the current CAFE tide.
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):
Maybe GM's banking on the law being either neutered or nuked some time next year and gas prices significantly dropping in the forseeable future.

Or, perish the thought, GM is selling enough higher efficiency cars that they can sell a few lower efficiency cars for those willing to pay for them.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Never date a woman that drives an El Camino

Women who drive old-style Subaru wagons have hairy legs!
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
Or, perish the thought, GM is selling enough higher efficiency cars that they can sell a few lower efficiency cars for those willing to pay for them.

GM's major CAFE darling, the Volt, isn't/wasn't selling too great and if I'm not mistaken, production has either slowed down or been temporarily halted.

Among conventionally-powered models (mainly the Cruze & Sonic) might meet today's CAFE figure (or at least get close to it); the upcoming future CAFE increases will make the Sonic & Cruze appear as gas guzzlers by comparison never mind any large V8 rear-driver.

I'm just telling it like it is. Back in the mid 80s, when gas prices leveled and dropped; many (though certainly not all) buyers indeed started gravitating towards larger and/or more powerful vehicles again. As a result, GM started getting financially penalized by the CAFE laws for every V8-powered car that sold.

The only reason Ford even offered a diesel-powered Escort at the time was to offset any CAFE penalties incurred from every V8-powered Mustang, T-Bird, LTD and Crown Vic that was sold.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
The only reason Ford even offered a diesel-powered Escort at the time was to offset any CAFE penalties incurred from every V8-powered Mustang, T-Bird, LTD and Crown Vic that was sold.

Ford needs to do that again and sale the diesel powered Fiesta in the US. Then Ford could start making some real cars again besides the Mustang. The current Taurus and the small front-drive alphabet soup models at Lincoln just isn't going to cut it.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):Never date a woman that drives an El Camino
Women who drive old-style Subaru wagons have hairy legs!

Subaru Brats?

That is to be expected with just about all of them. See up here Subarus are owned by hippies
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 19):
The only reason Ford even offered a diesel-powered Escort at the time was to offset any CAFE penalties incurred from every V8-powered Mustang, T-Bird, LTD and Crown Vic that was sold.

So CAFE is working as intended.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
I don't believe it was a success for the very simple reason Holden didn't build a successor, if it was a successful model Holden would have built a forth Generation model based on the VE Commodore.

Large car sales are way down (large car segment is down overall) in Australia. Yet the Commodore was the second most popular new car sold in Australia in the fourth quarter of 2011, only beaten by the Mazda 3 model line-up. The Ford Falcons sales are down over 40 percent for the 2011 calendar year, again reflecting a move by Australian new car buyers to smaller, cheaper, more fuel efficient cars.

Given this search for fuel economy, I find it interesting that diesel powered cars are not popular in Oz (about 10 percent of total new car sales), yet one-third of sport utility vehicles are diesel powered.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 23):
Given this search for fuel economy, I find it interesting that diesel powered cars are not popular in Oz (about 10 percent of total new car sales), yet one-third of sport utility vehicles are diesel powered.

Diesel in Australia hasn't had the price incentive of Europe, and diesel cars (until recently all imported, primarily from Europe) have had a significant price premium, meaning that you need to do a lot of km to see a saving in your hip pocket. Ford and Holden do not produce a diesel large car - the Focus (imported) and Cruze (locally assembled) are the diesel cars in their respective line-ups. The Ford Territory SUV (which cannibalised Falcon wagon sales) does now have a diesel and, given it and other SUVs are such fuel guzzlers, it's seen as the logical choice by many people.

Ford has recently introduced a turbo petrol 4 in its Falcon at the same price as the OHV in-line 6, and it will be interesting to see if that changes anything for Falcon sales. There has also been a (relatively unsuccessful) push to LPG for the Falcon and Commodore. No diesel plans for the Commodore AFAIK.....
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
So CAFE is working as intended.

Not quite. By the time the diesel Escort came out in 1985, gas prices were dropping and public demand for diesel-powered cars soured in the U.S. following GM's diesel fiasco. In short, the diesel version sold poorly and as a result; did not help Ford out of its CAFE fickle as intended.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Ford needs to do that again and sale the diesel powered Fiesta in the US. Then Ford could start making some real cars again besides the Mustang. The current Taurus and the small front-drive alphabet soup models at Lincoln just isn't going to cut it.

   I agree. According to one source, a diesel-powered Fiesta that's offered in European markets can obtain as high 60(?) mpg highway.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 07, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 23):
I find it interesting that diesel powered cars are not popular in Oz (about 10 percent of total new car sales), yet one-third of sport utility vehicles are diesel powered.

They are popular, but the locals manufacturers Ford, Holden and Toyota are dragging their feet. Ford has a diesel in Territory SUV, and Holden has a diesel in Cruze sedan and hatch and the mediocre Captiva mini-SUV. But Ford doesn't do a diesel in Falcon, instead persisting with the inline 6 in turbo and non-turbo forms, and the direct-injection inline-4 turbo Ecoboost (which is very good).

You look at nearly every VW Golf or Audi sold here and just about all of them are diesels. But the diesel fuel costs a lot here.

Quoting kent350787 (Reply 24):
at the same price as the OHV in-line 6

There is no overhead valve inline 6. The inline 6 is still more readily responsive though. It's a sweeter and smoother engine - which is hardly surprising given the inline-6 layout. And surprisingly, the fuel economy differences don't seem that great between the Ecoboost and the existing inline 6.

As far as I know, diesel won't be present in Commodore. Chrysler got the engine that GM wanted to use... Typical GM slowness to make any decisions.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 26):
There is no overhead valve inline 6.

And of course you are absolutely correct - if I could edit my post on this point I would. I do remember the old OHV engine from my youth   And i agree the current 4l isn't a bad engine (nicer than the GM V6), but a bit of an orphan.

Large mainstream cars are no longer popular here with private buyers, and haven't been for a long time. Even fleets are now moving away from them - the Mazda3 (petrol and some diesel) outsold the Commodore by around 15% in March, and the Corolla (petrol only) was only 57 units short. The Commodore outsold the Falcon by almost exactly 2.5 times.

Not good news for the Falcon is that is it was outsold by the top two SUVs in the medium, large and upper large segments, and only just beat the third in each of those segments. At least the Commodore is the clear No2 selling vehicle - Mazda3, Commodore, Corolla, Cruze, Camry/Aurion, Hilux, Navara are the top sellers.

Too much detail - I hope GMH gets the export deal!!!
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 08, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting kent350787 (Reply 27):
And i agree the current 4l isn't a bad engine (nicer than the GM V6), but a bit of an orpha

The GM V6 (LFX I think it is called, 3.6L but marketed here as SIDI) is actually a very sweet engine too, it is raucous at full tilt, but it goes like stink in the Commodore. And it actually has a bit of a hint of the old Honda NSX in its sound as it swings towards 6400rpm. But with low speed limits and speed cameras hidden everywhere, you rarely would do that.   The 4.0L Falcon is quite fast too, that's even before you think of going with the scary turbo versions.

I wonder though, what exactly is the attraction of Mazda 3? From the times I've been in them - there hasn't been anything particularly noteworthy or special about them. In contrast with the new Golf I was in on the weekend (a rental car), it was very refined and quiet, and clearly had a feeling of being very solidly built. The Golf was also quiet spacious, although the seats were typically very firm.

I'm also hearing from others with Mazda 3 that the fuel economy isn't particularly impressive, nor is the performance noteworthy.

But I suspect it's not about fuel economy, but instead about keeping up appearances. It's considered socially acceptable to buy the Mazda 3, or for that matter, a BMW X5 or Audi Q7. Those send the right messages about your status to neighbours and friends. And if you are doing really well, you park that C63 AMG on your driveway for all to admire, preferably with AMG Performance Pack to let people also hear how well off you are when you accelerate up the street in the morning. That speaks volumes about your social and professional status!   As the song goes, This is Australia....

Quoting kent350787 (Reply 27):
And of course you are absolutely correct - if I could edit my post on this point I would.

No worries!  
Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
I wish Holden would take over command and control of GM here in the US. GM Detriot is so full of ex-Proctor and Gamble marketing execs that are not genuine car people (Like over @ Ford).

Yeah, the Holden people are real car enthusiasts. And don't get me started on Ford. If the local Ford lot had any power and could actually market their cars without interferences from J Mays in head-office all the time, they might be going somewhere.

How about some new adverts for Falcon:

Trim, taut, terrific Falcon with Certified Golden Quality! And Fordomatic Drive with the eager response of "Pursuit" power! Big grin Just was looking at a 1964 advert for Falcon. Oh, classic adverts.  Smile

[Edited 2012-05-07 19:09:37]
 
Superfly
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 08, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
So CAFE is working as intended.

I doubt the diesel powered Escort with Mazda engine worked as intended.  
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 08, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 28):
I wonder though, what exactly is the attraction of Mazda 3? From the times I've been in them - there hasn't been anything particularly noteworthy or special about them.

It surprises me too. I've been wary of Mazda since almost buying a distant 3 predecessor - and seeing how badly those 323s dated and aged. I suppose they've at least hardly changed the styling of the 3 for years now, so there is that longevity.

The fact that small cars are 3 of the 4 top sellers bu that there are no Ford or Nissan small cars anywhere near says something - not sure what, but it says something   Hopefully the relaunched Pulsar works for Nissan, as that Tiida fits my definition of a POS - incomprehensibly ugly, tinny and gutless.
 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Wed May 16, 2012 10:11 pm

It'll be announced some time this morning.

Apologies for bumping the old message, but to post something else would be a double post - which is also a no-no.  Wink

[Edited 2012-05-16 15:16:59]
 
Superfly
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Thu May 17, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 31):
Apologies for bumping the old message,

No need to apologize. As long as the thread isn't archived, it's not an "old" message.
I hope this car is a success for G.M.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Thu May 17, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
I hope this car is a success for G.M.

No announcement yet..   It was tipped to be today - but nothing so far. The wait is ridiculous! Announce it already.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Thu May 17, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting kent350787 (Reply 24):
The Ford Territory SUV (which cannibalised Falcon wagon sales) does now have a diesel and, given it and other SUVs are such fuel guzzlers, it's seen as the logical choice by many people.

You can't blame the Territory for killing Falcon wagon sales, you can blame Ford for not bothering to update the wagon along the same lines as they have updated the sedan. So if you want a modern large family wagon from Ford in Australia or NZ the Territory is your best choice.
 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Thu May 17, 2012 10:19 pm

http://www.caradvice.com.au/173251/c...odore-us-export-program-confirmed/

It's only a couple of thousand cars, nothing more than that. So it won't be a whole new dawn for rear-wheel-driven North American GM cars. It's just a temporary thing, and then nothing more after that.

The Chevrolet SS Nascar racer is shown at that link as well - and apart from some interesting details at the front of the car hinting at the possible details of the front of the VF Commodore, which obviously will have a more defined shape than the generic one-size-fits-all Nascar look that this racer still has.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 34):

You can't blame the Territory for killing Falcon wagon sales, you can blame Ford for not bothering to update the wagon along the same lines as they have updated the sedan.

You can update it if head-office gives you budget to update it. But at the same time, the mouths of J Mays and other senior Ford executives should be firmly taped shut with respect to Ford Australia - so the local people can get on with it and not have to fight negative comments in the media from head-office bureaucrats.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Fri May 18, 2012 12:57 am

And here is the real deal:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/images/u...lden_vf_commdore_spy_photo_1-w.jpg

Spotted in testing recently in Victoria - heavily camouflaged. The roofline remains the same, but nearly everything underneath changes - it's around 100kg lighter, uses alloy body panels - the chassis is said to be massively changed, and the electronic gadgetry will be hugely stepped up.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 19, 2012 2:08 am

OK, motorheads - it is now official. The next-gen VF Commodore WILL indeed be the new Chevrolet Super Sport (SS).

"Holden has announced a new export program, confirming today that Commodore will return to North America in late 2013 as the new Chevrolet SS performance sedan. The limited production derivative of the yet to be launched VF Commodore will arrive in North American showrooms late next year. It will be the first time in 17 years that Chevrolet will offer a rear-wheel-drive sedan for sale in the US". The SS will also become Chevrolet’s next NASCAR Sprint Cup racecar debuting next year in its race configuration at the world renowned Daytona 500."

It is expected that the engine choices will be the same as the current Chevrolet Caprice PPV - a 6.2 liter high-output V-8 (making 405 horsepower) and a 301 horsepower 3.6 liter V-6. The SS sedan will initially only offer the V-8 engine, and will add the V-6 to the product mix sometime after the initial launch as the production pipeline from Australia begins to fill up. According to Chevrolet, the SS sedan's fuel mileage should be "very similar" to the Caprice PPV - 18/26 city/highway EPA estimated mpg for the V-6, while the big V-8 should deliver 15/24 EPA mileage. Both engines are flex-fuel capable, so E85 fuel is no problem.

Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...irmed-as-holden-commodore-official

[Edited 2012-05-18 19:10:28]
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Kiwirob
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 19, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 36):
Spotted in testing recently in Victoria - heavily camouflaged. The roofline remains the same, but nearly everything underneath changes - it's around 100kg lighter, uses alloy body panels - the chassis is said to be massively changed, and the electronic gadgetry will be hugely stepped up.

It's a facelift, from what I've read on the net only the bonnet and boot lid will be in alloy, it's not a new model, the change is probably like the change from VK to VL, same basic car with a new front and rear look. Instead of building a facelifted VE Holden should be introducing a completely new model VF.

 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 19, 2012 7:17 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 38):
It's a facelift, from what I've read on the net only the bonnet and boot lid will be in alloy,

From the sources I have, it's a massive update - rather than a mere facelift.

That site you've linked to is totally wrong. They've got the VE Series II updates shown as VF. The cars you've shown in your image are already on the market and on sale.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sat May 19, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 39):
From the sources I have, it's a massive update - rather than a mere facelift.

Doesn't really matter after 6-7 years Holden should be releasing a completely new model, not a facelift.

Ford Australia has the same problem the FG still uses the same (heavily revised) platform as the AU from 1998. It's been the same for both manufacturers for decades, they just don't have the volume to produce new designs every 6-7 years, instead we get facelifts every couple of years which pretty much kills the resale value of your car. The only people I know who drive Commodores and Falcons have them as company cars, you'd be mental to buy one as a private buyer. IMO as a private buyer you're much better off buying German, a model cycle is generally 7 years with a facelift around the 4th year, which doesn't kill the resale.
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sun May 20, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
Doesn't really matter after 6-7 years Holden should be releasing a completely new model, not a facelift.

It's new enough for the platform to get a new name. Wait and see.   It's going to be very popular when it launches.

Maybe in the mean time, we'll start implementing proper free trade agreements that are as free for foreign companies as they are for our own ones! At the moment, we are selling out our local companies with these lop-sided free trade agreements.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Sun May 20, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 39):
The cars you've shown in your image are already on the market and on sale.

Indeed, that seems to be a quite old photo - that's a Pontiac G8 in the middle of the photo, if I'm not mistaken.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Kiwirob
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 21, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 42):

Indeed, that seems to be a quite old photo - that's a Pontiac G8 in the middle of the photo, if I'm not mistaken.

It may not be a G8, Holden did a run of Commodore SS's with the G8 front end to use up parts they had lying around.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/2009%E2%80%932010_Holden_VE_Commodore_(MY10)_SS_V_Special_Edition_Sportwagon.jpg
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 21, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 43):
It may not be a G8, Holden did a run of Commodore SS's with the G8 front end to use up parts they had lying around.

Indeed....I saw one car like that in Adelaide a few months ago, I also saw a couple of Commodores with the aftermarket front end grill with the Chevy logo instead of the Holden one.
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 21, 2012 10:48 pm

SMH reporting ute and wagon definitely not part of current plans, with the SS sedan to be a niche performance model.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/h...camino-on-hold-20120521-1z0si.html
 
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Mon May 21, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting Marcus (Reply 44):
with the aftermarket front end grill with the Chevy logo instead of the Holden one.

I think they just get the bits and pieces for the Middle Eastern Market Chevrolet Lumina SS, or otherwise, the Chevrolet Caprice for the Middle East markets.

Kent350787: That's right - it's a limited edition only. Anything to upset GM buyers.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 22, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 43):
It may not be a G8, Holden did a run of Commodore SS's with the G8 front end to use up parts they had lying around.

I see... as a long-time Pontiac fan (having owned 5 of them), it brings a tear to my eyes to see the Pontiac signature grille still being utlilized on a new car.

Quoting kent350787 (Reply 45):
SMH reporting ute and wagon definitely not part of current plans, with the SS sedan to be a niche performance model.
GM management is trying to determine how well the rumored $35K price tag USD Chevy sport sedan will sell, because the pricing of the SS is nearly the same as the Cadillac CTS sedan (approximately $38K USD), although the Chevy will have a standard 6.2 liter V-8 under its hood while the CTS has a V-6 engine (with a 6-speed automatic transmission) as basic equipment.

I still believe that both the wagon (call it the "Kingswood") and the ute (no other name than "El Camino" will be acceptable on this model) have a niche market here in the US. There is no existing Impala or Malibu wagon, the Equinox is a CUV, and the Traverse is as big as the damn Tahoe! Especially since the domestic compact truck market (Colorado, Ranger, Dakota) is basically "dead" here in the USA (because the American automakers stupidly ceded the compact pick-up market to the Japanese).

[Edited 2012-05-21 20:03:00]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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cpd
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 22, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 47):
GM management is trying to determine how well the rumored $35K price tag USD Chevy sport sedan will sell, because the pricing of the SS is nearly the same as the Cadillac CTS sedan (approximately $38K USD), although the Chevy will have a standard 6.2 liter V-8 under its hood while the CTS has a V-6 engine (with a 6-speed automatic transmission) as basic equipment

I believe this is a one off only, and will never be sold in the USA again. It will probably be a stop-gap for a front-drive "SS" model which will be USA only. Although the other brands of GM are generally mandated to have world cars, it seems North American GM is an exception to that rule.  

I hope I'm wrong, but knowing NA GM, the most pessimistic scenario is usually the correct one.

Quoting Marcus (Reply 44):
Indeed....I saw one car like that in Adelaide a few months ago, I also saw a couple of Commodores with the aftermarket front end grill with the Chevy logo instead of the Holden one.

They were sold as a special edition, with a premium price as well! Might as well make money off it.   And that they did.

That white one doesn't look too bad. And they also did a "Redline" edition with the mechanical bits like brakes and wheels of the Pontiac G8 GXP. The engine remained a standard one though.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 47):
although the Chevy will have a standard 6.2 liter V-8 under its hood while the CTS has a V-6 engine (with a 6-speed automatic transmission) as basic equipment.

You never know, if the thing takes off, and the workers over there don't object - another production run of the VF might go to Chevrolet, perhaps with the new 5.5L direct injection V8 and 8 speed automatic.

[Edited 2012-05-21 20:15:38]
 
Ken777
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RE: GM To Revive SuperSport/El Camino Models In USA

Tue May 22, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 3):
I wish Holden would take over command and control of GM here in the US.

I don't. GM is delivering a wide range of cars & trucks to a far wider market. Holden has a limited market and had the personnel to handle that marker. Reality is that the Holdens for sale in the Pontiac dealerships obviously didn't perform well for GM in the past - why should it do better now?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Although I've never understood the purpose of a 'truck' on a car platform, it's still in the right direction.

The Ute has been pretty good for Holden over they years - in Australia. I don't know how it will perform in the US. The US market has crew cabs being strong, at least around here.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
How about the Kingswood?

I'll drink to that. Holden even made a good Kingswood wagon. Holden knew how to follow the KISS principle back in those days.

Maybe get some weight out, upgrade safety & emissions and see how she goes.  
Quoting kent350787 (Reply 30):
It surprises me too. I've been wary of Mazda since almost buying a distant 3 predecessor - and seeing how badly those 323s dated and aged.

My wife's MX-3 was basically a '93 323 in drag and performed well for us. Sold it last year and it's still going well. One of the best investments I've made in a car.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
a model cycle is generally 7 years with a facelift around the 4th year, which doesn't kill the resale.

As someone who remembers the time when there were new models out ever year (the late 50's were the best) I don't really care about change for the sake of change. We have enough years developing cars under our belts to have most engineering understood and implemented.

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