Maverick623
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North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 11:41 am

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/09/politi...lina-marriage/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

I used to get all worked up about stuff like this, but now I leave it to 2 points:

1) This will get struck down as a violation of the 14th Amendment.

2) Soon we will be talking to our children and grandchildren about this issue the same way we talk to them about anti-miscegenation laws.


Go ahead, bible-thumping haters. Keep it up.
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MaverickM11
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
2) Soon we will be talking to our children and grandchildren about this issue the same way we talk to them about anti-miscegenation laws.

   Every day more and more people realize there is no gay bogeyman, and that the Christian right offers nothing to society other than hypocrisy.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Starbuk7
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Thread starter):
Go ahead, bible-thumping haters.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Christian right offers nothing to society


Yep, nice to see the insults flying right away. All credibility lost here for me.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 2):

Yep, nice to see the insults flying right away. All credibility lost here for me.

Credibility?
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MaverickM11
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 2):
All credibility lost here for me.

Ha. An entire group totally disenfranchised by hypocritical lunatics based on not one shred of evidence--there was no credibility in the first place.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 1:49 pm

Not only "Gay Marriage" is banned, but so are "Civil Unions"

Makes my blood boil.
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
but so are "Civil Unions"

This is the part that really makes no sense. It will affect a lot more people than just same-sex couples. I don't know if some of the people realize that this was part of it, as most of the focus was on the same-sex provision.
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mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 6):
I don't know if some of the people realize that this was part of it, as most of the focus was on the same-sex provision.

Tha'ts the thing, they didn't realize it. I just heard on NPR this morning that people who voted against gay marriage would not have supported a civil union ban if they had known about it.

Is it a case of uniformed voters? Sure. but it also show the hate and bigotry of the drafters of the ban to include civil union in the package.
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babybus
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 2:34 pm

If gay marriage means getting married in a church then I'd like to see it banned in all countries. Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing. You get the feeling that they only want to be married before God only because it looks better in the photos and makes a better day out for the family.

Civil unions I have no problem with. Marry what you like. It's just a piece of paper, like any contract.

Sorry.
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mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
If gay marriage means getting married in a church then I'd like to see it banned in all countries

But it doesn't.

Gay Marriage advocates have never asked churches to be forced to perform ceremonies. Most gays would perfectly fine not having a "church" wedding.

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing. You get the feeling that they only want to be married before God only because it looks better in the photos and makes a better day out for the family.

So a man and woman, how do you prove the "worthy" to be wedded at a church?
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MaverickM11
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing.

I know plenty of straight people that think like I do--why not ban them too?

Quoting mt99 (Reply 9):
Gay Marriage advocates have never asked churches to be forced to perform ceremonies. Most gays would perfectly fine not having a "church" wedding.

  
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WestJet747
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
the Christian right

I've got to say, Americans are really good at turning everything into a "left vs. right" issue. Literally everything. Just peruse the various threads in Non-Av.

The thing is, there are many people on the left who oppose gay marriage. "Bible-thumping" isn't exclusive to conservatives you know. The right might have more of them, but that is the only reason they seem to try to pass these laws, because at the end of the day, they're just trying to please the people who voted them in.

I'm fairly right-wing (moreso fiscally), but I'm also all for gay marriage. So it's disappointing to see this.

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
If gay marriage means getting married in a church then I'd like to see it banned in all countries. Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing. You get the feeling that they only want to be married before God only because it looks better in the photos and makes a better day out for the family.

You must be of the persuasion that being gay is a choice and that there are no gay Christians. There certainly are homosexuals who belive in God, and I would say they have every right as a practicing Christian to be wed in a church by a priest. In fact, there's a church not far from my office that has a nice big rainbow flag on the sign that indicates they welcome gay Christians. I'm straight, but I find the progressive acceptance pretty refreshing.
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):

Ha. An entire group totally disenfranchised by hypocritical lunatics based on not one shred of evidence--there was no credibility in the first place.

I'm not a fan of same sex marriage, I'm sure as hell not Christian, or a lunatic, I'm just somewhat old-fashioned and believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this. I don't have a problem with civil unions, you can civil unions up the wazoo, they mean f.a. especially how they work where I live today.
 
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akiss20
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
I don't have a problem with civil unions, you can civil unions up the wazoo,

As long as the government only grants civil unions to straight couples as well, this is perfectly acceptable, and in my opinion preferable. Let civil unions be a union granted by the state and marriage one by a religious group.

If you advocate the government giving marriages to straight couples and civil unions to gay couples, this is an unacceptable return of separate but equal.
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1stfl94
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:24 pm

I think this will ultimately backfire as the ban of any legal recognition for same sex relationships will surely be challenged all the way.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting akiss20 (Reply 13):
If you advocate the government giving marriages to straight couples and civil unions to gay couples, this is an unacceptable return of separate but equal.

I couldn't care less who has a civil union, straight or gay I really don't care. Modern society and political correctness has killed off many traditions but some we should keep some, marriage is one that shouldn't be messed with for the sake of a minority.

I'm not anti gay either, I really don't care who people sleep with, if one of my kids ended up being care, all power to them, I'd be far more distressed if they were vegetarian, I hate vegetarians, a person who won't eat a good steak isn't welcome in my house.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
I've got to say, Americans are really good at turning everything into a "left vs. right" issue. Literally everything. Just peruse the various threads in Non-Av.

You're right, it's more rational vs irrational, rather than left vs right. That said if we were to do a Venn diagram of those on the right and those who oppose gay marriage/civil unions there'd be a lot of intersection. I'm fairly conservative otherwise, but I just can't handle the self defeating nonsensical social issues.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
marriage is one that shouldn't be messed with for the sake of a minority.

Why? I don't think Christians should marry; why don't we stop them from marrying? In fact I'd bet they are the leading cause of the breakdown of marriage: heterosexual Christians divorcing. It just doesn't make sense; why limit an institution if it's so great?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
I'm just somewhat old-fashioned and believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman

That's not a very good reason to deny rights to a whole group, never mind a slippery slope.
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
That's not a very good reason to deny rights to a whole group, never mind a slippery slope.

But why should gay people be allowed to marry, I've not heard any reasons which convince me it's the right thing to do. Marriage is between a man and a woman, not between same sex couples, it's my opinion, you'll not get me to change it.
 
mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
I know I'm not the only person who thinks like this. I don't have a problem with civil unions, you can civil unions up the wazoo,

So - if you could have voted in the North Carolina ballot.. would you have voted "for" or "against"?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
I've not heard any reasons which convince me it's the right thing to do


Because is doesn't affect anybody except the interested parties.

What is reason to convince us its the "wrong" thing to do?
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WestJet747
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
That said if we were to do a Venn diagram of those on the right and those who oppose gay marriage/civil unions there'd be a lot of intersection.

I don't disagree. In fact I mention it in my previous post. But the whole anti-gay marriage notion is representative of a religious group that encompasses more one party than the other. I think it would be incorrect to state that it's the party's mandate to stop gay marriage, but rather the ideals of the members in that party. I know for a fact that I'm not the only pro-gay marriage right-winger out there.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
I don't think Christians should marry; why don't we stop them from marrying?

Well in all fairness, marriage is a Christian tradition, so your example is a little extreme, but I see what you're getting at.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
heterosexual Christians divorcing

I'd be pretty interested to see a study that looks at states where gays can marry and compare divorce rates between gay and straight couples. I have a feeling the results might be pretty surprising.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
That's not a very good reason to deny rights to a whole group

But is marriage itself really a right in the US? Maybe the benefits of marriage are (the same benefits achieved though civil union), but is the act of marrying a right? I would tend to not think so. Please prove me wrong if I'm incorrect, I can't really quote your constitution by heart.  
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
I've not heard any reasons which convince me it's the right thing to do
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
it's my opinion, you'll not get me to change it.

I think you can figure out on your own why putting these two sentences in the same post might make you look a little closed minded.
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1stfl94
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
But why should gay people be allowed to marry, I've not heard any reasons which convince me it's the right thing to do. Marriage is between a man and a woman, not between same sex couples, it's my opinion, you'll not get me to change it

See I always thought marriage was about two people who love each other and want to commit for life. Why should the terms used be any different for straight or gay couples? It's the people who think it's an institution are the ones who I think are the most damaging to marriage.
 
us330
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:11 pm

If this was really about protecting the sacred institution of marriage, which is a common refrain of supporters of bills like this, then they would be trying to ban divorce.
 
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akiss20
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
That's not a very good reason to deny rights to a whole group

But is marriage itself really a right in the US? Maybe the benefits of marriage are (the same benefits achieved though civil union), but is the act of marrying a right? I would tend to not think so. Please prove me wrong if I'm incorrect, I can't really quote your constitution by heart.

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

Loving v. Virginia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 19):
So - if you could have voted in the North Carolina ballot.. would you have voted "for" or "against"?

I wouldn't have voted, as a for vote goes against my beliefs and a no vote also bans civil unions which I don't have a problem with.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
I think you can figure out on your own why putting these two sentences in the same post might make you look a little closed minded.

Fair comment, on this issue my mind has been made up, I've discussed it to death with a couple of gay friends, I'm hardly going to change my mind based on what some people I don't know have to say on an internet forum.

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 21):
See I always thought marriage was about two people who love each other and want to commit for life.

Also a given but I think it should only be for men and women.

Quoting us330 (Reply 22):
then they would be trying to ban divorce.

Nothing wrong with divorce, sometimes marriages or civil unions just don't work, I'm sure this is the same regardless of sexual orientation.
 
1stfl94
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 24):
Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 21):
See I always thought marriage was about two people who love each other and want to commit for life.

Also a given but I think it should only be for men and women

For me, this is what it comes down to when these things are put to vote. Why is it that my private life becomes decided by what someone who doesn't know me, never met me and probably never will.
 
WestJet747
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting akiss20 (Reply 23):
"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

Loving v. Virginia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_...ginia

I stand corrected! Thanks for the info.

Quoting us330 (Reply 22):
If this was really about protecting the sacred institution of marriage, which is a common refrain of supporters of bills like this, then they would be trying to ban divorce.

   Spot on. It opens a whole new can of worms, but I totally agree that it's a valid argument (although I don't actually support banning divorce as it's sometimes necessary).
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting akiss20 (Reply 23):
Loving v. Virginia

Which fits nicely into this, which is pretty much my opinion.

[quote][T]he historical background of Loving is different from the history underlying this case. But the traditional definition of marriage is not merely a by-product of historical injustice. Its history is of a different kind. The idea that same-sex marriage is even possible is a relatively new one. Until a few decades ago, it was an accepted truth for almost everyone who ever lived, in any society in which marriage existed, that there could be marriages only between participants of different sex. A court should not lightly conclude that everyone who held this belief was irrational, ignorant or bigoted. We do not so conclude.[/img]
 
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Aesma
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
If gay marriage means getting married in a church then I'd like to see it banned in all countries.

Around here getting married in a church is banned for everyone. Well, you can have something called a religious marriage, but it has no meaning for the state, only the marriage concluded at the city hall by the mayor counts. Furthermore, if you do a religious marriage without being married by the state, the priest/imam/rabbi/guru can get jail time.

Civil unions exist too, they're less binding than a marriage, and give less rights and advantages. They can be contracted between same sex people, unlike marriage (but that should change with the new president).
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travelin man
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
Well in all fairness, marriage is a Christian tradition

Er... I don't think this is correct. "Marriage" has been around long before there was such a thing as a "Christian".
 
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mariner
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing.

One of the more famous gay commentators, Andrew Sullivan, is also a deeply committed Christian.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
Marriage is between a man and a woman, not between same sex couples, it's my opinion, you'll not get me to change it.

Not expecting to change your mind, don't want to, but where to you stand on the polygamous Patriarchs and King Solomon with his many wives and concubines?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 20):
Well in all fairness, marriage is a Christian tradition, so your example is a little extreme, but I see what you're getting at.

Actually, in western society, it is mostly a Jewish tradition - see Patriarchs above.

I have zero desire to get married, I have zero desire to participate in a ceremony originally designed for inheritance rights and the subjugation of women.

Being queer, for me, is an astonishing freedom, the ability to love whomever I want when I want, regardless of the other person's gender. And, as happened once, I can love more than one person at the same time and both those people - a man and a woman - are still my closest friends.

But if two people, two men or two women, want to commit to each other and get married, why not? It isn't a church issue, it is a state issue of equality.

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zrs70
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
Any gay guy I've met has always been anti church and non believing.

Perhaps I run in limited circles. I can't speak to the anti church part, but the non believing is a different story.

As a gay rabbi, I have many friends who are gay clergy, and I know many gay Jews who are committed members of their synagogues. While this doesn't mean that all those members are necessarily believes, many are.
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mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 27):
Until a few decades ago, it was an accepted truth for almost everyone who ever lived, in any society in which marriage existed, that there could be marriages only between participants of different sex. A court should not lightly conclude that everyone who held this belief was irrational, ignorant or bigoted. We do not so conclude.[/img]

So changes of perception and opinions should be banned just because they have been held for a while?

The question, who people opposing gay marriage have NEVER been able answer is "Who is harmed?"

[Edited 2012-05-09 12:11:05]
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Maverick623
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting starbuk7 (Reply 2):

Yep, nice to see the insults flying right away.

The only insult is people denying basic rights to a select few based on "moral" or "traditional" reasons.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):

I'm not a fan of same sex interracial marriage, I'm sure as hell not Christian, or a lunatic, I'm just somewhat old-fashioned

See what I mean? It's the same, lame arguments rehashed. I don't give a hoot what you like or don't like. When you are actively preventing people I love from exercising the same rights you and I have, I got a problem with that.

If we can accept that you will forever live in the past, you must accept that the rest of us will move on.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 17):
I've not heard any reasons which convince me it's the right thing to do.

Then you don't believe in equal protection, and believe that certain citizens belong in a separate class. It's really that simple.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 19):
Well in all fairness, marriage is a Christian tradition

You fail history forever.
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Kiwirob
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 32):
Then you don't believe in equal protection, and believe that certain citizens belong in a separate class. It's really that simple.

No its not and you know it isn't, some things should just stay as they are meant to be.
 
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akiss20
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 32):
Then you don't believe in equal protection, and believe that certain citizens belong in a separate class. It's really that simple.

No its not and you know it isn't, some things should just stay as they are meant to be.

Meant to be as defined by whom? Everyone has there own standard of how things are meant to be. The question is can you practice your idea of how things are meant to be without preventing someone else from practicing theirs? Gay marriage does not prevent you from your beliefs or impact your life in any way, banning gay marriage prevents me from living my living my life.
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mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):

No its not and you know it isn't, some things should just stay as they are meant to be.

How do you know how thing are "meant to be?"
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hoons90
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:43 pm

Incredibly disappointing to hear.

There is simply no reason to oppose same-sex marriage, period. A lot of the arguments I've been hearing sound like "just because".
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Well, you can have something called a religious marriage, but it has no meaning for the state, only the marriage concluded at the city hall by the mayor counts.

It's the same in Germany and it makes things much less complicated.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Furthermore, if you do a religious marriage without being married by the state, the priest/imam/rabbi/guru can get jail time.

Interesting... AFAIK, that became legal in Germany when religious marriage lost its significance to the state.
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Maverick623
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):
No its not and you know it isn't

Uh, yeah, it is. You believe that gay people should be in a separate class where they are unable to enjoy the rights of everyone else. That's the textbook definition of unequal protection.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):
some things should just stay as they are meant to be.

Sorry, you don't get to decide that.
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akiss20
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Furthermore, if you do a religious marriage without being married by the state, the priest/imam/rabbi/guru can get jail time.

That seems odd to me. Why does the government care what ceremonies a religious organization (assuming it doesn't involve physical harm etc etc)? If the religious ceremony holds no legal value, what does it matter to the government?
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
Airport
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 9:02 pm

Agreed, this is a disappointing decision. I speak as a conservative who strongly supports gay marriage and wishes there were more conservatives who had the balls to go against their party and stand for what they really believe in, even if it meant risking re-election.

I think the tide is turning though, and it's only a matter of time before it's repealed.
 
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Isn't it better that Peter and Paul are allowed to marry if they are in love, rather than Peter marrying the girl next door just to please everyone else and then cheats on her with Paul for years? I personally know about several men who live like this... not nice for anyone, especially not the unsuspecting wife.
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mt99
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 10:03 pm

Here is some nice words from a North Carolina pastor from a few days ago"

"In the audio [below] Harris says: “So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, ‘Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,’ you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed….Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male.”"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...-up-and-punch-effeminate-children/

These are the voters that allowed this Ban to pass.

Inspiring..dont you think?
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WestJet747
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 28):
Er... I don't think this is correct. "Marriage" has been around long before there was such a thing as a "Christian".
Quoting mariner (Reply 29):
Actually, in western society, it is mostly a Jewish tradition - see Patriarchs above.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 32):
You fail history forever.

Um, I don't recall saying Christians invented marriage...

You can adopt a tradition that was already in existence as your own, which is exactly what the Christians did. They took the concept of marriage and made it a traditional part of their religion. Where exactly did I go wrong again?

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):
some things should just stay as they are meant to be

This exact sentence was used by many 60+ years ago to describe interracial marriage. Look how far we've come through understanding and people standing up for others' rights. It's abhorrent in today's society to suggest mixed-raced marriage should be banned.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 27):
Furthermore, if you do a religious marriage without being married by the state, the priest/imam/rabbi/guru can get jail time.

That seems a little odd to me. Why such a harsh penalty if a religious marriage isn't a "real marriage" according to the government?

Quoting mt99 (Reply 42):

What an appalling thing to say! If it were some Average Joe off the street saying this I wouldn't care, but people will actually listen to a nutjob like this.  Wow!
Flying refined.
 
aloges
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 42):
Here is some nice words from a North Carolina pastor from a few days ago"

You can sign a petition against his remarks if you wish:
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o...ia/action/public/?action_KEY=10391
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us330
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 pm

Quoting Airport (Reply 40):
I think the tide is turning though, and it's only a matter of time before it's repealed.

It will. Even one of the Republican leaders in the North Carolina state senate said that the law would be repealed within 20 years, because its largely a generational thing.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Wed May 09, 2012 11:54 pm

This, too, shall pass.

Acts like this remind of Jim Crowe and "One Drop" laws. They are acts of desperation committed by a side who know that they are in the wrong and know that they will lose, and yet feel a need to justify their cause because they are wedded to their ideas.

This is temporary. And it will be another of many black marks on the long history in the South of antipathy to those who do not meet the fictional Southern Ideal.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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ATTart
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Thu May 10, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
This, too, shall pass.

So true.


Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
 
Mir
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Thu May 10, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting babybus (Reply 8):
You get the feeling that they only want to be married before God only because it looks better in the photos and makes a better day out for the family.

There are a lot of people in general who think of their marriages something more for show than for anything else. Gay people certainly don't have a monopoly on that sort of thinking.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 33):
some things should just stay as they are meant to be.

I'd take issue with the idea that marriage was "meant to be" heterosexual only. Care to provide some foundation for that statement?

-Mir
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Maverick623
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RE: North Carolina Votes To Ban Gay Marriage

Thu May 10, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 42):
Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch.
Quoting aloges (Reply 44):

You can sign a petition against his remarks if you wish:

No way. I want to see that guy in jail.
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