KBUF
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Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 12:49 am

Got nailed while attempting to get through security at BUF to pilot a flight to LGA (which wound up being delayed for 2 hours so a replacement pilot could be found: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/P.../history/20120518/1122Z/KBUF/KLGA); the police said he had piloted seven other flights in the last two days with the gun in his bag, additionally having not gotten his bag x-rayed while passing through CHO: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/police-courts/courts/article862751.ece
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m11stephen
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:01 am

We obviously don't know all the details in this case but more than likely the pilot simply forgot that he had this gun in his bag. I see no other reason why an airline pilot of all people would fly seven flights and attempt to clear a TSA checkpoint with a gun in their bag.
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DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 1):

I'm sure you're right. Crew doesn't have to go through TSA at CHO when operating the flight.

I flew with this captain many times. He's a good guy, good stick, and I always enjoyed being paired up with him. Sucks to see him going through something like this. Especially in a very gun un-friendly state like NY and with a company like PDT.
 
m11stephen
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 2):

Everyone makes mistakes... I hope that Piedmont can forgive his actions and allow him to keep his job. He was probably licensed to carry a concealed weapon and simply forgot to take it out of his bag. He would not be the first crewmember to do that.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 3):
. I hope that Piedmont can forgive his actions and allow him to keep his job.

I doubt it. Labor / management relations are a war zone there right now. I don't think this guy had a target on his back from mgmt so I'm hoping they help defend him, but I don't see any way they can't terminate him. Piedmont is also very good at hanging those who screw up royally out to dry. That being said there is a new ACP who is a very good pilot ally.

I just hope it turns out for the best. He definitely doesn't deserve this mess.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 3):
He was probably licensed to carry a concealed weapon and simply forgot to take it out of his bag. He would not be the first crewmember to do that.

Entirely possible. I'm a gun guy as well. Golden rule to pilots who shoot.... NEVER make your flight bag your shooting bag. I did for a while and sweated like hell when going through security. I knew I didn't have a firearm in there, but I was always worried about a loose round.

At any rate, I think the other guys who have done this got slapped on the wrist. Problem here is NYS will go after him no doubt when the Feds are done.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 5):

I can assure you he's no idiot....
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 4):
Piedmont is also very good at hanging those who screw up royally out to dry. That being said there is a new ACP who is a very good pilot ally.

I'll buy that. I remember when a QA friend of mine got canned after a mechanic improperly re-attached a Horse Collar after a B-check. The result was that it departed the aircraft in flight. Yes, he should have pulled on it like the work card says (but nobody ever does this any more than we rolled wheels on weeklies), but the guy had eight years of good time. No second chances on some things, I guess.

It's funny because when I tell that story where I'm at now, I get a lot of "are you serious?" type responses. Could be it's a PDT thing, or an airline thing in general. Anyway, pilot with a gun through security, yeah, they'll probably deliver kittens over it.
Sad to lose his job, more so for how easy it is to need a lawyer these days.
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silentbob
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 2):
Crew doesn't have to go through TSA at CHO when operating the flight.

I would put money on that changing in the near future.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 8):
I would put money on that changing in the near future.

I wouldn't touch that bet. I'm sure you're right.
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 2):
a very gun un-friendly state like NY

From the British perspective (and I suspect the European perspective generally) that really is an extraordinary statement. While I'm sure the pilot in question didn't intend any harm, from this side of the Atlantic the question has to be asked what on earth the gun was doing in his bag in the first place. Strange as it may seem, most people around here don't carry guns at all, let alone "forget" where they've put them.
 
danielmyatt
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 10):

This, all over.

The gun culture in the US is totally mistifying to me and a vast majority of the population over this side of the Atlantic. Surely if you was in a highly responsible job such as a pilot, and with the world the way it is at them moment with terrorism and the such, you wouldn't even think about owning a gun, let alone having one in your house near your flight gear?

It does seem a genuine mistake, but it's a mistake that should cost him his job. Irresponsibility at its highest.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 10):
Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 11):
The gun culture in the US is totally mistifying to me and a vast majority of the population over this side of the Atlantic. Surely if you was in a highly responsible job such as a pilot, and with the world the way it is at them moment with terrorism and the such, you wouldn't even think about owning a gun, let alone having one in your house near your flight gear?

There is a very different culture on this side of the world. Our Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms. In past times firearms were just one more tool we used to do what needed to be done. Pest control of the four legged kind and putting meat on the table. From this, as society has migrated to the cities, shooting has become sport. Targets have become paper rather than animal, shotguns are fired at clays rather than birds. Quite a few of us still live a "countryfied" lifestyle and shoot for both food and sport. I own numerous rifles, shotguns and pistols. About once per month we take a trip to our local shooting range and spend an afternoon (friends / family). We go through a few rounds, grill hotdogs on a portable grill, drink a soft drink, shoot a little more, pack up and go home. During deer season, you'll find me employing my firearms putting meat in the freezer.

I also have a permit that allows me to carry a pistol concealed within state law. I do this because the world isn't a friendly place. No one is "out to get me", and I don't frequent bad areas. However, part of my job as the man of the house is to protect my family. Bad guys have guns over here. Plain and simple. The best defense against that is situation awareness, but even exercising this you can find yourself the victim (nearly carjacked one night in a good neighborhood while pumping gas, 2 yr old son strapped into his carseat)

Like I said before, I've flown with this captain many times. I'm betting his use of firearms is similar to mine. He possibly broke one of the pilot / gun owner rules: Never use your overnight bag as your shooting bag....
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:21 pm

Any person carrying a gun onto an airplane is an idiot. No matter mistake or what he needs to loose his license asap.
Just bizarre that we can even be having a discussion about him being a nice lad etc. I dont doubt he is but its loaded gun on an airplane...

Dont let the door hit you on the way out as we say.
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DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
Any person carrying a gun onto an airplane is an idiot. No matter mistake or what he needs to loose his license asap.

He didn't violate any FARs. I doubt he'll loose his license.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 13):
Dont let the door hit you on the way out as we say.

I'm sure they will fire him over this.
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 3:03 pm

I understand that the US has the things for guns and a few people are defending him on his errors. I am sure as Dash Trash is mentioning he is a great pilot. With that being said I too find it shocking that people are OK with the fact he had a loaded gun with him in the flight deck. There are errors and then their are situations in which cross a line. I am glad to hear that the people of NY are a bit more sensible and corrected this matter!
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cbphoto
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 15):
I understand that the US has the things for guns and a few people are defending him on his errors. I am sure as Dash Trash is mentioning he is a great pilot. With that being said I too find it shocking that people are OK with the fact he had a loaded gun with him in the flight deck.

WHAT? You do realize on any given day their are hundreds of flights that criss-cross the US with loaded guns in the flight deck? It's called the FFDO program, read up on it one day!

All the foreigners who want to hang this individual have to realize that guns do not kill people, it's people who kill people. He obviously had no intentions of hurting someone with it, as he would have done it on the first flight.

Unfortunately, I have a lot of connections in Piedmont and I know roughly the current situation out their and sadly I have a feeling his career at Piedmont is probably over. Hopefully he'll be able to recover and find a new job, at a better company!

[Edited 2012-05-21 12:48:19 by srbmod]
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scbriml
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 1):
more than likely the pilot simply forgot that he had this gun in his bag.

You left out the significant word "loaded". SIMPLY forgot?  Wow!
Quoting m11stephen (Reply 3):
I hope that Piedmont can forgive his actions and allow him to keep his job.
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 14):
He didn't violate any FARs. I doubt he'll loose his license.

Even if he has a criminal conviction on his record?

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
I also have a permit that allows me to carry a pistol concealed within state law.

How often do you forget where your loaded gun is?
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DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):
How often do you forget where your loaded gun is?

Doesn't matter. I'm not him. This guy isn't the first who showed up to the airport with a gun in his bag he didn't realize was there. Stuff happens. You use the bag to go shoot. You get home tired from a day at the range, unload and forget one important item. Go to work the next day, get arrested. There has also been at least one pilot in the middle of a divorce who's wife put a gun in his bag.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):

Even if he has a criminal conviction on his record?

Correct.
 
danielmyatt
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
Our Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms.

So what?
It's also illegal not to own a boat in Hawaii, doesn't mean this it's not an outdated and archaic law, and must be obeyed at all times.
Just because it's a "right" it doesn't mean it is right.

 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 14):
He didn't violate any FARs. I doubt he'll loose his license.

He will not loose his license, but it will be very difficult for him to renew his medical with a felony conviction. and without the medical, his license is nothing more than a fancy bookmark or drink coaster.
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:40 pm

DashTrash...don't bother.

I believe you; I agree with you.

There are apparently individuals here who are not capable of making mistakes, or can't grasp the fact that the US isn't Europe. Thankfully.

None of them have ever run a red light, not seen a pedestrian in a crosswalk, left something in their bags that was prohibited at a security checkpoint, or accidentally burped at a dinner table. Angels...all of you  
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danielmyatt
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:43 pm

There's a difference between running a red light and leaving a loaded handgun in a bag that you take on a plane every time you go to work.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
I also have a permit that allows me to carry a pistol concealed within state law. I do this because the world isn't a friendly place. No one is "out to get me", and I don't frequent bad areas. However, part of my job as the man of the house is to protect my family. Bad guys have guns over here. Plain and simple.

The best protection that you could possibly have for your family is to ensure plentiful redistribution of income (via cash and government services) within the American economy. The main reasons why people steal are that they have found themselves in desperate situations where there is nobody around to help them, or they do not think there will ever be an opportunity to improve their lives, so they have nothing to lose. If we had a government that took care of its people instead of fostering a violent, individualistic society, we would not feel so vulnerable. Being scared and buying a gun to have around your children is a terrible mistake and a misinterpretation of the original intent of the constitution. The right to bear arms was so the populace could work as a militia and defend itself against outside invaders (e.g. the English). Any outside invader who could stand up to our military (not impossible, but challenging) is likely to hit us economically first, then destroy our infrastructure with aircraft and then drop bombs on our cities. I don't think a little gun is going to do much good in that fight.

As a former employee of Piedmont, I am OUTRAGED that a pilot would carry a loaded gun around, for whatever reason, even for the purpose of ostensibly defending himself against a terrorist. We need to start teaching little boys at an early age that it's an act of idiocy to carry a gun around and that the best protection one could have is to look out for others as one looks out for oneself.
 
cargolex
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
Our Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms.
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
In past times firearms were just one more tool we used to do what needed to be done. Pest control of the four legged kind and putting meat on the table.

It does, and even an anti-gun person such as myself things those are legitimate gun uses and that people who live in really rural areas in the U.S. actually need firearms in some cases. I also think people should be allowed to go target shooting without having to defend themselves morally about it. I don't personally like guns, but target shooting is fun and responsible gun ownership in this capacity hurts nobody. But I think with our society awash in guns now, that constitutional guarantee and the steadfast refusal of some people to think critically about the volume of guns has had serious unintended consequences.

I think you are probably right that this pilot simply forgot which bag he was using or that the gun was in there. I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

The problem I have, and I think that most people are voicing here, is that gun ownership and use is just far too casual. Casual enough that you can forget you've got a loaded gun in your bag when you go to the airport. This guy's a pilot, people trust him with their lives every day. That conveys a certain responsibility to make sure all your ducks are in a row at all times - particularly with regard to conduct on the flight deck and what you might bring onto the plane.

Any gun owner needs to be extremely careful and responsible with how they carry their firearms and most gun owners are. But in this case, it's even more imperative. Ceasar's wife must be beyond reproach, as they say.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 17):
You left out the significant word "loaded".

  

If the gun had been unloaded, I'd feel like DashTrash. We can be a bit gun-nuttish in the US, but at the same time a lot of the "OMGZ a GUN?!" hysteria from abroad is over the top.

But haphazardly at the bottom of a bag carrying a bunch of other stuff is not the place to carry a loaded gun. That's true even if you're just driving from the range back to your house. You should unload the gun or carry it properly in a holster or case. Very poor gun safety by someone who really ought to be focused on safety.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 21):
left something in their bags that was prohibited at a security checkpoint, or accidentally burped at a dinner table

Yes, I 've tried going through security with a bottle of water in my bag.  Wow!

I've also belched at the dinner table in polite company.   

Both of which are so far removed from "forgetting" you have a loaded gun in your bag that they're not even worth mentioning.

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 24):
The problem I have, and I think that most people are voicing here, is that gun ownership and use is just far too casual. Casual enough that you can forget you've got a loaded gun in your bag when you go to the airport. This guy's a pilot, people trust him with their lives every day. That conveys a certain responsibility to make sure all your ducks are in a row at all times - particularly with regard to conduct on the flight deck and what you might bring onto the plane.

  
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 20):
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 14):He didn't violate any FARs. I doubt he'll loose his license.
He will not loose his license, but it will be very difficult for him to renew his medical with a felony conviction. and without the medical, his license is nothing more than a fancy bookmark or drink coaster.

Robert Piche, the hero of Air Transat 236 (the Azores glider) had a prior conviction for drug smuggling... so apparently yes:

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cbphoto
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 24):
This guy's a pilot, people trust him with their lives every day. That conveys a certain responsibility to make sure all your ducks are in a row at all times - particularly with regard to conduct on the flight deck and what you might bring onto the plane.

Preciously why I would trust him, more then I would trust some other nut with a gun!

Again, people are forgetting the fact that their was no intent here with this weapon. Should he have left it at home, absolutely! Will he get in trouble for his mistake, you bet! But at the same time, it's very obvious he had no intentions to use the weapon. We are all humans, and make mistakes and people need to realize this. Yes, everyday thousands of pilots go to the range to target practice, hunt or what not and leave their gun at home, locked where it is supposed to be, but this guy obviously made a mistake! People need to get off his back about it and understand that sometimes Sh*t happens! At no time during the 7 legs he flew with it in his bag, was the general public in any sort of danger!
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ZBBYLW
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 16):
WHAT? You do realize on any given day their are hundreds of flights that criss-cross the US with loaded guns in the flight deck? It's called the FFDO program, read up on it one day!

I am aware of this. With that being said I don't believe the guns are allowed to be loaded. That A320 that had a bullet hole shot through the cockpit is good reason not to keep it loaded.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 18):
You get home tired from a day at the range, unload and forget one important item.

Usually I respect your opinion DashTrash but honestly, if you have a long day at the range to the extent you go to work with a "loaded" hand gun in your bag. You probably should have called in fatigued/sick or what not. It's a relatively important thing to bring with.

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 21):
r can't grasp the fact that the US isn't Europe.

Or Canada for that matter.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
cbphoto
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 29):
I am aware of this. With that being said I don't believe the guns are allowed to be loaded. That A320 that had a bullet hole shot through the cockpit is good reason not to keep it loaded.

Wrong...I have flown in the flight deck with countless FFDOs and they are all loaded! What is the point of having them up their if they are not allowed to be loaded? Are you going to throw the gun at the intruder?
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fxramper
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 6:26 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 18):
Doesn't matter. I'm not him. This guy isn't the first who showed up to the airport with a gun in his bag he didn't realize was there. Stuff happens. You use the bag to go shoot. You get home tired from a day at the range, unload and forget one important item. Go to work the next day, get arrested. There has also been at least one pilot in the middle of a divorce who's wife put a gun in his bag.

Anyone that is authorized to fly armed should check, double check and recheck any flight bag. You travel with the same bag you take to the range?! This clown is the reason FFDO is losing budget money and Congress's faith. Your rational of how one just totes a gun around like a pencil is ridiculous. The same people come to the rescue of these idiots everytime.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 29):

Usually I respect your opinion DashTrash but honestly, if you have a long day at the range to the extent you go to work with a "loaded" hand gun in your bag. You probably should have called in fatigued/sick or what not. It's a relatively important thing to bring with.

I agree with you, partly. I always had my stuff ready to go the night before. If you're packing the day you're leaving and too tired to pack properly, you need to call out. Bottom line, don't use your carry on bag for your shooting bag. I had someone at a range tell me that. Turned out the guy two benches over was a 737 driver.

There's also the possibility the gun was planted there. I mentioned before a PO'ed wife put her husbands pistol in his bag just before he left on a trip. TSA caught that one too. Your ex-spouse having a criminal record is a very powerful tool to have in a custody battle. I'm in no way saying that happened here, but it's happened in the past.
 
danielmyatt
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 28):
Again, people are forgetting the fact that their was no intent here with this weapon

I don't think people are, and it shouldn't make any difference whether there was intent or not, he still took a loaded gun on board a plane without authorisation. And the fact that he got caught on his 8th time highlights what a careless individual this person is irrespective if he's a good guy.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 28):
Again, people are forgetting the fact that their was no intent here with this weapon.

No. But to unwittingly carry a loaded weapon is called "carelessness." Carelessness is not a quality I want in the pilot flying my plane.

One does not accidentally shove a loaded firearm into ones bag. That was a conscious decision, whether he intended to remove it before going to work or not. One must make a decision that one is going to put the weapon into the bag without unloading it first. That is called "carelessness." I may not be an expert on firearm safety, but even I know that this is not the right way to do it.
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fr8mech
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 22):
There's a difference between running a red light and leaving a loaded handgun in a bag that you take on a plane every time you go to work.

Yup, when you run a red light, you stand a significant chance of hurting someone. When you leave a loaded handgun in your bag, you have a loaded handgun in your bag.

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 29):
I am aware of this. With that being said I don't believe the guns are allowed to be loaded. That A320 that had a bullet hole shot through the cockpit is good reason not to keep it loaded.

An unloaded gun is a paperweight or a very un-aerodynamic object when thrown.

The pilot should have kept track of his weapon. He made a mistake and will have to answer for that mistake. He will lose his job, given current relations. As for his certificate and medical and all that, I don't know. He may cop a plea and receive a misdemeanor conviction. He may even walk.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
One must make a decision that one is going to put the weapon into the bag without unloading it first.

You are right there. I will usually unload any firearm that I may have in 'a bag' of any sort that will not be in my control the entire time. And, by my control, I mean holding. If I carry a loaded firearm, it will usually be on my person. The only place I leave a loaded firearm, unattended, is in my vehicle. This is unfortunate, but the law around here restricts me from carrying a firearm in certain places.

[Edited 2012-05-19 12:12:46]
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copter808
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 29):
I am aware of this. With that being said I don't believe the guns are allowed to be loaded. That A320 that had a bullet hole shot through the cockpit is good reason not to keep it loaded.

Tell me please, what good is an UNloaded gun?

Uh, please wait Mr. Cockpit Intruder, gotta put the bullets in my gun!! Might as well be carrying a brick.
 
phljjs
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 36):
Tell me please, what good is an UNloaded gun?

Uh, please wait Mr. Cockpit Intruder, gotta put the bullets in my gun!! Might as well be carrying a brick.

Forgive him. His government took away or severely restricted his gun rights a long time ago.

Back on topic...

This pilot made a mistake. A big mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Hopefully all involved will see that, however, since the mistake was discovered in New York, I think he'll be hung out to dry.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 8:09 pm

This is stupid. Pilots should be allowed to carry handguns onboard. If you can't trust them wth handguns, how can you trust them in the cockpit of an aircraft?
 
A320ajm
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 8:41 pm

For all of you saying he should simply be forgiven, have you considered what would have happened if somehow the gun had been discharged mid-flight, caused damage, injured someone etc. Even if there were no deaths, think how many people other than the pilot would be fired and investigated, such as TSA guys, and also bringing down the reputation of the airline, industry and profession. In the end, it is professional negligence. If you have a high responsibility job, like a pilot, you should be extra careful on things like this. I am sure if all of you had a doctor, for example, who made a small mistake like prescribing the wrong non-lethal medication to you, would call for disciplinary action/sacking/struck off. You are being biased as this is your industry. IMO, he should be fired.

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
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fxramper
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 8:44 pm

This guy isn't even an FFDO? He's toast. He works for a terrible airline that will gladly unload his salary to help their bottom line.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):

Agreed 100%.

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 37):
This pilot made a mistake. A big mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Hopefully all involved will see that, however, since the mistake was discovered in New York, I think he'll be hung out to dry.

NYC has squat to do with this guy. He could be in ELP BIL or some other crap airport. The media will report in a year or so this idiot is fired. Being an FFDO or having authorization to fly armed is one thing. They check, double check and recheck travel bags. I'm talking about gutting your bag on the hotel bed or at home and making sure your don't have a shell casing laying around. How stupid can this guy be? Seven flights before with a .357 just because his stupidity?

Fire him and continue to make an example. The last idiot that got jammed up and shot a hole in the plane also was at US. Go figure.   

Carrying a firearm is a privilege on a plane, not a right that pilots that pony up their own cash to take the extremely watered down FFDO course on firearm safety and responsibility. If Obama is relected the FFDO program is done.
 
bthebest
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 10:01 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
No. But to unwittingly carry a loaded weapon is called "carelessness." Carelessness is not a quality I want in the pilot flying my plane.

Precisely. The circumstances around this incident are just facts. The point is, as a pilot he is expected to display a level of responsibility at all times - and improper handling of a firearm counts as gross negligence in this case.

Just because everyone in the US has a right to own a firearm, doesn't make responsibility of owning one any less important than in any other country. Incorrect use still leads to the same outcome.
 
dashman
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 11:28 pm

Quote:
The gun culture in the US is totally mystifying to me and a vast majority of the population over this side of the Atlantic.

I find the other side of he Atlantic cradle to grave government provides all mentality a bit mystifying. But that is how ya all want to live so that is fine with me. We do have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. That seems to be just fine with the majority of the folks on this on this side of the Atlantic. That independent spirit is how our country came to be.
I can see how he accidentally left a firearm in his bag but needs to be severely reprimanded for not taking that responsibility more seriously.
 
A320ajm
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sat May 19, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting dashman (Reply 42):
I find the other side of he Atlantic cradle to grave government provides all mentality a bit mystifying.

It's not mystifying really, we have a good welfare system; If you are ill, you get free healthcare, if you don't have a job, you get support, if you can't afford a house, you can get a council house...Our crime rates are lower (including homicide rates). Our police do not need to routinely carry guns. No one (generally/law abiding citizens) in this country has to have a gun to feel safe.

Wouldn't Americans prefer this?

A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting dashman (Reply 42):
But that is how ya all want to live so that is fine with me. We do have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. That seems to be just fine with the majority of the folks on this on this side of the Atlantic.

Sorry but I can't help myself here. Does it never, ever occur to you that the main reason why you have so much gun crime in the US is because you have so many guns? A fatal shooting in the UK is so rare that it will almost always make the national press throughout the country and, leaving aside the odd dissident Irish republican, the few shootings that do happen are overwhelmingly related to drug turf wars. I'm sixty years old, I've never handled a gun in my life, I wouldn't know what to do with one anyway, I've never been the victim of a crime and I feel perfectly safe despite having lived most of my life in Glasgow, reputedly one of the UK's more violent cities. Oh and for what it's worth I've always worked for a living as well and not expected the government to care for me from cradle to grave. In this country the most important thing we do expect the government to provide is a reasonably safe society in which the overwhelming majority of rational people accept that it should be illegal to carry weapons of any sort never mind firearms.

[Edited 2012-05-19 17:20:05]

[Edited 2012-05-19 17:25:22]
 
Newark727
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
There is a very different culture on this side of the world. Our Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms.

You make this sound as if it's beyond reproach as a legal interpretation now. Sadly it probably is, but it wasn't necessarily always this way, even fairly recently.
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 43):

Wouldn't Americans prefer this?

A320ajm, I have discussed this with many of Americans over the years. They are scared of the "S" word being socialism. Some are very open to socialism and all of the benefits but sadly are in the minority. You look around and lobby groups have a say in what gets taught in schools, the medical industry is just a revenue generator etc... It's too bad but their choice. A good friend of mine lives up here now and says he would never go back. That being said I feel I am straying a bit from topic.

On a more serious note, how many terrorists have been stopped by pilots (not APOs) vs how many accidents have come out of carrying these weapons?
Keep the shinny side up!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 37):
This pilot made a mistake. A big mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

As did the surgeon who amputated the wrong leg. As did the pilots on AF 447 (and EA 401 and a few others). So did the guy who looked down the barrel of a gun to figure out why it wasn't firing. None of them got forgiveness because "it was a mistake."

Carrying the loaded weapon on seven flights was a mistake. Placing the loaded weapon in the bag (something that should NEVER be done) was intentional. How long does it take to unload a gun?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Acey559
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 43):
Wouldn't Americans prefer this?

No. At least not me. I think the welfare mentality we have in the US now is sickening and needs to end.

And the reason we have the best healthcare system in the world here in the US is because our current system works, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 39):
have you considered what would have happened if somehow the gun had been discharged mid-flight, caused damage, injured someone etc.

Guns don't discharge themselves.

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 43):

That's great! Who pays for it though? It's not free.

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 44):
Does it never, ever occur to you that the main reason why you have so much gun crime in the US is because you have so many guns?

Nope. To me a gun is a tool that I use to do some sort of a job. Same as a hammer. It also provides some level of protection when needed.

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 46):

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money.

Now.... This thread is in jeopardy of degrading into political rhetoric if it isn't there already.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Piedmont Pilot Arrested For Carrying Loaded Gun

Sun May 20, 2012 12:59 am

You know something that no one gets, neither the Government, the TSA or the general public? Pilots don't need liquids, or guns, or any other weapons to cause harm or damage! You get the hint and know what I am talking about,so i'll leave it at that, but I still don't think this individual should be "thrown to the vultures" for this mistake he did! I would rather him forget about whats in his bag, then forget something critical in flight!

One reason I have sympathy for this individual, is once after a week of camping, I too forgot a survival knife in one of my bags. TSA found it and were nice enough to let me mail it back to myself. But all I am getting at is that sh*t happens, even to the best people!
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