zrs70
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"One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 6:40 pm

There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up) that have a vitriol against anything that isn't "traditional." Their latest is about superheroes.

One Million Moms is up in arms about the "coming out" of an existing well known super hero. They believe that if there is to be a gay character, it should be someone that no one knows.

In other words, young children should not be exposed to the reality that people they know and trust are gay.

Ridiculous.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up)

But the important thing to remember is that more that 100 million moms don't have an anti-gay agenda and will and do support their gay son's and daughter's. It is really a tiny percentage of small minded people that "come out" against same-sex relationships.

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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 8:32 pm

Which superhero? Is there an article to go along with this?

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up)

I guess "Almost Fifty Thousand Moms" wasn't as catchy...
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Which superhero? Is there an article to go along with this?

Northstar, from X-Men. He's marrying a non-superhero.

Link
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 9:12 pm

As this Pastor's opinion in Kansas is that " The Government Should Kill Gays".

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...ill-gays/politics/2012/05/31/40330
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 9:36 pm

Well, it's obvious that 50KMoms just doesn't understand, does not want to understand, and is unwilling to recognize the fact that everyone deserves to be treated well and not devalued. Even gay children.
From the link WestJet747 provided in reply 5

Quote:
"Children desire to be just like superheroes. Children mimic superhero actions and even dress up in costumes to resemble these characters as much as possible. Can you imagine little boys saying, 'I want a boyfriend or husband like X-Men?'" says the organisation. "This is ridiculous! Why do adult gay men need comic superheroes as role models? They want to indoctrinate impressionable young minds by placing these gay characters on pedestals in a positive light. These companies are heavily influencing our youth by using children's superheroes to desensitise and brainwash them into thinking that a gay lifestyle choice is normal and desirable. As Christians, we know that homosexuality is a sin."

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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 10:04 pm

I've always found it ironic that OMM has no problem that toy stores sell toy guns - but heaven forbid the toy store sell a comic book in which a man loves a man.
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WestJet747
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 10:40 pm

Meanwhile, in fantasyland: I decided to check out the website of this 'One Million Moms' organization, what I found is...interesting.

They claim that "God is using OneMillionMoms.com" to do his work (yep, not doctors or police officers or firemen, but this miscounted group of women). In that article they say that they were responsible for getting the show GCB taken off the air. Clearly they haven't heard of ratings...

They claim that the show 'The Playboy Club' was removed from the air because "OMM contacted sponsors". Again, they have no idea how the television business works.

You can find more of the so-called successes they claim responsibility for here. These women are delusional. They fail to realize that market responsiveness determines the continuation of marketing campaigns, not crazy women sending emails.

What I found most interesting though, is that this group is actually a "ministry" of a larger group called the American Family Association (AFA). Who is this AFA you might ask? Well they're the same AFA that has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group" (upgraded from being "a group who engages in hate speech"). Link

If you guys here a noise, don't worry, it's just the OMM's credibility flying out the window.

[Edited 2012-05-31 17:52:55 by srbmod]
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 10:56 pm

I am sure, no I guarantee that more than one of the 50+K members of the "One Million Moms" organization a subsidiary of the "American Family Association" is going find out one day in the future that one of her kids is gay even after the parents have tried to raise the the son as "macho manly" as possible or raise the daughter to be as "flowery feminine" as possible.

To you the moms in the organization, what are you going to do when you receive the revelation that one of your kids is gay? Are you going to love child as your faith that you use to judge others actually commands of you to do or are you going to ask yourself "Why didn't I raise my kid to be even more macho or feminine?" and blame society or blame JCP, Sears, The Gap, DC and Marvel Comics for the fact that your kid is gay. When that day happens who are you going to love first, your child or the ideology of your organization?

Of course the "One Million Moms" organization a subsidiary of the innocently named AFA will accuse their detractors of being "intolerant", "close minded", and being devoid of "traditional American" and "family values" but what are you teaching people, children that hatred of gays and things you don't agree with is a family value, that boycotting JCP because they use Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson is a Christian virtue as you see it and that a 4 year old boy singing in a church "ain't no homos gonna make it to Haven" is deserving as an applause by people who are likely to agree with you and of some who might be members?

The way I see it, the "One Million Moms" organization is not a collection of brave women who want to take a stand for a better more habitable society, the "One Million Moms" organization ran by the the AFA is an organization of hate driven cowards.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 22):
I've always found it ironic that OMM has no problem that toy stores sell toy guns - but heaven forbid the toy store sell a comic book in which a man loves a man.

I would think the answer would be: Don't buy the comic book for your kid!  
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[Edited 2012-05-31 17:52:27 by srbmod]
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 11:41 pm

IMO, the OMM are just another of those "concerned parent groups" that, instead of concentrating on trying to create a better world for their children, are more interested in judging what they find (im)moral and (im)modest. I'm sure that 50 years ago, their pet bugaboo would have been interracial dating/relationships (we have to make sure that society takes a stand for decency by ensuring that our precious children don't marry one of them) and rock music.

They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.


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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Thu May 31, 2012 11:44 pm

We should take note that being of Christian/ Jewish faith does not mean that one is pro/anti gay. While many are opposed to gay issues because of faith, many are supportive because their religion commands them not to treat others like strangers.

The religious progressives are a loud and clear voice!

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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:33 am

I have not given any opinion on the subject. My only opinion is that people should be tolerant to other peoples opinions even when they do not agree with them.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:45 am

The whole direction of this discussion was somebody agreeing with what the moms said. If people here do not like that then they could have pointed out and spoke against what that group stands for. Instead, the posters comment was deleted and people here are saying that that poster has no right to comment that he agrees with that group. That is what I am arguing against. If you do not like something you are free to argue against it. But it seems sensitive mob mentality took over and shut down somebodys opinion.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 26):
The whole direction of this discussion was somebody agreeing with what the moms said. If people here do not like that then they could have pointed out and spoke against what that group stands for. Instead, the posters comment was deleted and people here are saying that that poster has no right to comment that he agrees with that group. That is what I am arguing against.

So would you advocate letting openly racist comments stand undeleted as well?

And if not, why not?

Your argument would apply to those just as well, with the same problems attached.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:08 am

Also the AFA is the group that Rick Perry catered to early in his campaign at the Astrodome party he threw. Non Christians not allowed, Thank goodness he is gone (Rick Perry that is).
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:21 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
Northstar, from X-Men.


And if he needs to be gay, that's just FINE with me!      
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 10):
They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.

Yup. It appears that JCP management has decided to draw a line in the sand. There are obvious financial benefits to this decision. Gay men are more likely to have a college education and less likely to have families. That translates into more disposable income.

That said, they could have simply ignored OMM. Instead, openly printing this ad sends a very loud and clear message and I don't think that all of it can be explained away as "just good business." Someone at the top made a very definite statement about the company's morality. For that, I applaud them.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 12):
I have not given any opinion on the subject. My only opinion is that people should be tolerant to other peoples opinions even when they do not agree with them.

I do not have to "tolerate" bigotry. I do not have to, and will not "tolerate" someone else's view that I am less than a full human being worthy of as much respect as anyone else simply because I exist. And let's not go through the charade of pretending that this is about "loving families" or "disagreeing with a lifestyle." Calling for people to lose their jobs on account of their sexuality falls under neither description.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 8):
To you the moms in the organization, what are you going to do when you receive the revelation that one of your kids is gay?

I've dealt with enough homeless teenagers who were kicked out of their households by parents who "disagree with the gay lifestyle" and "love traditional American family values." I'll never forget the time I walked into a room just in time to catch a (very "Catholic") mother slapping her (6'2") 16yo son and calling him a "son of a b!tch." I commented that it was an interesting choice of insults for her to use on her own son. Then I called the cops.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
Well they're the same AFA that has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group" (upgraded from being "a group who engages in hate speech").

The SPLC is an anti-American, left-wing front group. Didn't you get the memo?  
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
That said, they could have simply ignored OMM. Instead, openly printing this ad sends a very loud and clear message and I don't think that all of it can be explained away as "just good business." Someone at the top made a very definite statement about the company's morality. For that, I applaud them.

While I give JCP credit, I don't think it will help their business much as their business is totally falling apart.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I do not have to "tolerate" bigotry. I do not have to, and will not "tolerate" someone else's view that I am less than a full human being worthy of as much respect as anyone else simply because I exist. And let's not go through the charade of pretending that this is about "loving families" or "disagreeing with a lifestyle." Calling for people to lose their jobs on account of their sexuality falls under neither description.

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I'll never forget the time I walked into a room just in time to catch a (very "Catholic") mother slapping her (6'2") 16yo son and calling him a "son of a b!tch." I commented that it was an interesting choice of insults for her to use on her own son.

Sounds as if she got it just right, incidentally…!   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Then I called the cops.

Sad, if probably necessary.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 10):
They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.

Alright JC Penney! I'm not gay but I'll try to give them some business for standing up for what's right.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
So would you advocate letting openly racist comments stand undeleted as well?

And if not, why not?

Your argument would apply to those just as well, with the same problems attached.

Personally, I think that openly racist comments SHOULD stand undeleted on A.net as well. I have always hated the suggest deletion button because I think that rather than having their comments deleted, misguided or downright nasty posters should be allowed to show their true colors, however ugly, and have people blow their arguments out of the water. As it stands, half of offensive comments on A.net are deleted, and the other half are allowed to stand, and it is pretty arbitrary--partly based on who is being insulted, and partly based on luck.

There is one poster whose homophobic rants are deleted about half the time, but the other half of the time is more fun, because he just embarrasses himself publicly, for example.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 19):
Personally, I think that openly racist comments SHOULD stand undeleted on A.net as well. I have always hated the suggest deletion button because I think that rather than having their comments deleted, misguided or downright nasty posters should be allowed to show their true colors, however ugly, and have people blow their arguments out of the water. As it stands, half of offensive comments on A.net are deleted, and the other half are allowed to stand, and it is pretty arbitrary--partly based on who is being insulted, and partly based on luck.

I don't disagree with your point; On the other hand, flame wars in forums can get out of hand, so moderation does have a role to play.

Either way, my point was that most people agree that racism is extremely toxic, despicable and disruptive to a civilized debate, but some people at the same time insist the same toxic mindset versus homosexuality to be "harmless" or "just a valid opinion". For me that disconnect is at the heart of the matter.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:40 am

Doc:

I guess my invite to help set the gay agenda got lost in the mail. Again!! And l live only 50 short miles north of San Francisco; gay hub of the world!! Why was I not informed there was another "set the gay agenda" meeting? I changed my address! Please forward all future "set the gay agenda" invites to my partner of 5 1/2 years and I to our current address. I would hate to miss out on setting the gay agenda. Again. For the umpteeth time in a row...

/sarcasm
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:54 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Sad, if probably necessary.

Absolutely necessary. I am legally mandated as a pediatrician to report all suspected child abuse within 24 hours. If I suspect that the child is in immediate danger, I am mandated to report immediately and involve law enforcement. I could lose my license and even go to jail for failure to do so.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Either way, my point was that most people agree that racism is extremely toxic, despicable and disruptive to a civilized debate,

It is also illogical and indefensible to argue that someone is inferior to others just by virtue of his or her very existence.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:59 am

Why does it seem than when someone in the US says he's Christian, almost anything can fly ? Sure, not the killing of gays, but it goes that far for a reason. The same people defending "Christians" will say Islam is a dangerous religion, every Muslim wants sharia everywhere, etc.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:41 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Why does it seem than when someone in the US says he's Christian, almost anything can fly ? Sure, not the killing of gays, but it goes that far for a reason.

Oh even that! Two different "Christian" pastors have called for a Holocaust of all gays. Both have been vigorously defended by their congregations. In France or Germany, they would been in jail.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:52 pm

I thought I would share this video of Zach Wahls speaks of being raised by two Women!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Oh boy. Expect OMM to have an angry at both Marvel AND DC now...apparently "The Green Lantern" will be relaunched as being openly gay - http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/...n-lantern-relaunched-as-brave.html
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 26):
Oh boy. Expect OMM to have an angry at both Marvel AND DC now...apparently "The Green Lantern" will be relaunched as being openly gay - http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/...n-lantern-relaunched-as-brave.html

Well, Green Lantern is hot!!       

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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
and less likely to have families. That translates into more disposable income.

But yet the JCP ad portrays what seems to be two gay dads with their son, can't have a whole lot of disposible income with kids. So which is it?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
The SPLC is an anti-American, left-wing front group.

You're correct despite your sarcasm.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 17):
I don't think it will help their business much as their business is totally falling apart.

Reminds me of when an actress' career goes downhill her clothes start to come off.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I guess "Almost Fifty Thousand Moms" wasn't as catchy...

I never heard of this... They probably don't like drinking either. A lot of groups that use the "million: name don't even have close to a million. Remember the Million Man March? It only had 600,000 or so participants.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 6):
I've always found it ironic that OMM has no problem that toy stores sell toy guns -

Because guns are cool!

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 11):
We should take note that being of Christian/ Jewish faith does not mean that one is pro/anti gay

Yep... Some of us don't care one way or the other. I go to church every Sunday, for my entire life, and I never once heard anyone bad mouthing gays.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):
I guess my invite to help set the gay agenda got lost in the mail

They must have that meeting next to the meeting for "how do white men keep everyone else down".

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Why does it seem than when someone in the US says he's Christian, almost anything can fly

This has become a pet peeve of mine. The word Christian has a lot of negative or positive feelings attached to it these days. These days the word has been hijacked by the evangelical crowd and when you say you are Christian people assume you are some sort of bible thumping nut. On the other side of the spectrum you get people who question your Christian faith because you like drinking, gambling, etc.

I am a delegate for the Episcopal Diocese of Michigan and I at the convention I generally don't go for the social activism a lot of the clergy and delegates are into, but I would never doubt their Christian Faith, but there are many Christians who would. One thing I have noticed is that nearly all of the women Episcopal priests are into the social activism thing, while many of men priests are not.

A couple of weeks ago I had a party at my house for people from church. We had lots of good food and beer my neighbors, who are evangelical Christians couldn't believe we were drinking. I said "you can't have a party full of Episcopalians without booze!".

I attend a very traditional high Episcopal Church and we stay out of the politics that has fractured the Episcopal church and we still don't preach hate or anything like that. We don't talk about anything political and we don't have an agenda other than sharing the good news of Jesus Christ.

Back in '08 a coworker asked who my clergy was endorsing for president. I said I had no idea and I don't care. My priest never says anything about politics and he shouldn't. My coworker, who is Baptist, couldn't believe that a minister wasn't endorsing a politician. Being a cradle high church Episcopalian (that means born and raised) I couldn't imagine a church that political,


I am not on board with the modernizing of the Episcopal church as far as the liturgy and music go, but I stay out of the politics that politicizes the church as a whole.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Gay men are more likely to have a college education and less likely to have families. That translates into more disposable income.

I like that episode of the Simpsons where Mayor Quimby says "I support gay money... I mean gay marriage"

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
One Million Moms is up in arms about the "coming out" of an existing well known super hero

I just find it funny that they are mad about a fictional character. I bet a lot of these moms wouldn't let their kids to read comic books no matter who the characters are.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 28):
But yet the JCP ad portrays what seems to be two gay dads with their son, can't have a whole lot of disposible income with kids. So which is it?

Ummmm.....did you read his post? And I guess I am meaning "read with comprehension" which is different from just "read". Because he said "less likely", you even quoted it, which means it is not an absolute, unlike what your statement is seeking. That JCP is using dad's in their ad does not mean it is only for gay dad's (or dad's in general). So yes, you can have it "both ways" in this situation". And being that they have a kid and are gay, they perhaps likely (there's that word again) had a three-way even.   

The ad just implies men with good taste in clothes and a sense for fashion actually shop at JCP...  

Tugg
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 28):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
The SPLC is an anti-American, left-wing front group.

You're correct despite your sarcasm.

So the group that fights hate groups in America hates America themselves? Seems rational.  

Disagreeing with the views of a group it doesn't necessarily make them "anti-American".

Quoting ATTart (Reply 25):
I thought I would share this video of Zach Wahls speaks of being raised by two Women!!

Not sure why the guy is in engineering. He's a hell of a speaker.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 17):
While I give JCP credit, I don't think it will help their business much as their business is totally falling apart.

Well their business is not falling apart because of their stance on embracing homosexuality, so why not try to take a stab at it and see if they can garner some extra market share? They need to differentiate themselves in order to remain competitive, so this is just one piece in that puzzle.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 29):
I just find it funny that they are mad about a fictional character. I bet a lot of these moms wouldn't let their kids to read comic books no matter who the characters are.

It wouldn't surprise me either if a disproportionate amount of their kids are homeschooled.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 31):

It wouldn't surprise me either if a disproportionate amount of their kids are homeschooled.

Probably. And, of course, the only textbook they'll ever need is The Bible!  
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 31):

So the group that fights hate groups in America hates America themselves? Seems rational.

Disagreeing with the views of a group it doesn't necessarily make them "anti-American".

Exactly. About the only people who consider the SPLC as "anti-American" are people on the far right fringe or who are part of Stormfront, the Klan, the Vinlanders and other of the numerous hate groups out there who detest that SPLC brings their despicable actions to the public eye.

[Edited 2012-06-01 08:15:57]
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seb146
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Two different "Christian" pastors have called for a Holocaust of all gays. Both have been vigorously defended by their congregations.

I wonder what would happen if all the gays in this country were rounded up, forced into, say, Idaho and walled off. What happend when children being born everywhere else in the country turn out gay? Not only that, what happens when the meth heads are kicked out of their straight society for doing gay stuff? And all the people trying to get into gay land because of lower crime, higher education rates and better yards?

All the gays taken away? Imagine what that would do for the fall line!
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):

I wonder what would happen if all the gays in this country were rounded up, forced into, say, Idaho and walled off.

Maybe, hopefully, please change the color of Boise State's football field and uniforms? They're an eyesore.
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seb146
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 34):
please change the color of Boise State's football field and uniforms?

Their football field is blue so their cheerleaders will not graze at halftime....
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mainMAN
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):
I wonder what would happen if all the gays in this country were rounded up, forced into, say, Idaho and walled off.

The more I think about it, the more attractive a proposition this sounds. Is Idaho warm? If not, could you please consider Arizona or the San Diego area?
 
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falstaff
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
that! Two different "Christian" pastors have called for a Holocaust of all gays. Both have been vigorously defended by their congregations. In France or Germany, they would been in jail.

Who are these people? I wonder how big their congregation really are? That nut from Kansas has a congregation that is mostly members of his family .

Regardless of their opinion I am glad I live in a country where even hate speech is free speech. The true test of free speech is putting up with people who have opinions you don't like.

I think there are a lot of people out there who like to use the pastor thing to advance their political agenda. I know in Detroit that can mean a lot. The "clergy" community in Detroit have a lot of power. Once you get outside of the major denominations of Christianity ordination isn't very difficult and can require little of no training. When I was in college I met a "pastor" of some whacked out church that some people in my building went to. I asked him where his divinity degrees were from and said he didn't have any.

On the other end of the spectrum I have met some Episcopal priests who seem to have some wild political views. There are Episcopal churches in The Diocese of Michigan that hide behind the church thing to advance leftist social activism and spend very little time dealing with religion at all.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 29):
we still don't preach hate or anything like that. We don't talk about anything political and we don't have an agenda other than sharing the good news of Jesus Christ.

  
That is the part I don't get. Why more Christian's and church's that follow Jesus don't do more preaching of the word of Christ versus "the bible". I know they are interconnected but Jesus Christ, his teachings, were very different than the Old Testament. The Old Testament was very much Gods vengeance and punishment and Christ is/was supposed to be Gods love and forgiveness. Going forward.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 33):
I wonder what would happen if all the gays in this country were rounded up, forced into, say, Idaho and walled off. What happend when children being born everywhere else in the country turn out gay?

This is the part I don't get. And it is probably more accurate to say it is the part the radical, extreme religious nuts (like the pastors that have been recently making headlines) don't get, that you can't just "fence them in and watch them die out" because they are a part of the natural world. There are people that are homosexual in orientation and that is a normal thing. I guess that in addition to the fenced off portion, they'll also need the reeducation prison....errr....camps to teach the queer outs them, as the new born homosexuals occur.

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 36):
or the San Diego area?

We already do have a very vibrant "gay" community. I put quotes around gay because everyone is just part of the city, very integrated into it, it is not really separate (of course you can go to Hillcrest to see them gays in full force but even there it is really not just "gay", everyone goes there and does business there). Heck, we have fours candidates vying for mayor and two are gay and they are both Republicans.....   

Tugg

[Edited 2012-06-01 09:26:30]
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 38):
Why more Christian's and church that follow Jesus don;t do more preaching of the word of Christ versus "the bible"

Probably because for many it's not actually about their faith but finding some socially acceptable way to attempt to justify their bigotry.
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mainMAN
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 38):
This is the part I don't get. And it is probably more accurate to say it is the part the radical, extreme religious nuts (like the pastors that have been recently making headlines) don't get, that you can't just "fence them in and watch them die out" because they are a part of the natural world. There are people that are homosexual in orientation and that is a normal thing. I guess that in addition to the fenced off portion, they'll also need the reeducation prison....errr....camps to teach the queer outs them, as the new born homosexuals occur.

Well that's good, it almost sounds like the UK where sexuality stopped being on anybody's agenda many years ago - with better weather! When can we move in?
 
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falstaff
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 38):
That is the part I don't get. Why more Christian's and church's that follow Jesus don't do more preaching of the word of Christ versus "the bible". I know they are interconnected but Jesus Christ, his teachings, were very different than the Old Testament. The Old Testament was very much Gods vengeance and punishment and Christ is/was supposed to be Gods love and forgiveness. Going forward.

I could do without the old testament because it would make being a Christian a lot easier, I wouldn't have to put up with so many annoying atheists who question my beliefs because they don't believe anything in the Old Testament. I don't take the Old Testament literally and I don't think any Christian should, and not all of them do. I can understand that people may not want the church to recognize gay marriage and if the church doesn't want to accept it that is fine. Not everyone gets married in a church or even by a minister (I am performing a wedding in August and I can marry anyone the law will allow, in Michigan), so marriage doesn't have to be recognized by any religious group.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 39):
Probably because for many it's not actually about their faith but finding some socially acceptable way to attempt to justify their bigotry.

More likely it is because a lot of people take the Bible literally (or other religious texts) and for them what it says is what it says end of discussion.

These two passages, found in the Episcopal 1928 Book of Common Prayer, sum up everything that is important about being a Christian.

Hear also what Saint Paul saith.
This is a true saying, and worthy of all men to be received, That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. 1 Tim. i. 15.

Hear also what Saint John saith.
If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the Propitiation for our sins. 1 St. John ii. 1, 2.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 37):
Regardless of their opinion I am glad I live in a country where even hate speech is free speech. The true test of free speech is putting up with people who have opinions you don't like.

I draw the line where Germany does. When it comes to denying human dignity, I draw the line.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 28):
You're correct despite your sarcasm.

No, the SPLC is a civil rights group. Those, like you, who deny the basic dignity of others, who believe that we are condemned to a "fiery hell" (your words verbatim) for the horrible sin of existing as we were created are those who they define as hate groups. And they are quite correct.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 41):

More likely it is because a lot of people take the Bible literally (or other religious texts) and for them what it says is what it says end of discussion.

I disagree. Were that the case, they'd keep kosher. They don't. They'd make their wives sleep in a separate bed when she's on her period. They don't. They would wear peas. They don't. They wouldn't shave. They do.

No, for these people, the Bible offers a justification for whatever otherwise unjustifiable position they hold.
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seb146
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 36):
Is Idaho warm?
HA!! In the summer, it is nice. Winters are brutal! Especially along the Montana border. The Rockies are there, so mountains, snow, bears (the animal kind, not the good kind), wolves...

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 36):
could you please consider Arizona or the San Diego area?

I would love to. I like the heat, so Palm Springs would be perfect for me. I was just throwing Idaho out there as an example.


Which brings up another point: As a Christian and American, I am very offended by the assertion by these right-wing zealots that the United States is a Christian nation. I would like proof of where EXACTLY in the Constitution it says we are a Christian nation. If people want to follow the Bible in their own personal lives, fine. Do not legislate Biblical law. This is NOT a theocracy. You want a theocracy? Move to Iran. Leave my religion alone.

[Edited 2012-06-02 04:32:08 by srbmod]
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Klaus
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 37):
The Diocese of Michigan that hide behind the church thing to advance leftist social activism

You mean, such as Jesus taught and lived with his commune of followers who shared everything and put helping every fellow human being regardless of any ideology above formal religious teachings?

That one?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 37):
and spend very little time dealing with religion at all.

Just give the New Testament another go and this time pay close attention to the extent Jesus pursued "leftist social activism" on the one hand and "religion" on the other. Looks like you'd be in for a few surprises.

And that is me as an atheist talking about an at least mostly fictional book filled to the brim with fairy tales.

It looks a lot to me as if some people are so stuck in their fascination with the ideology and fairy tale part that they never get around to actually understanding what Jesus was supposed to be about in the first place, according to the same book they themselves keep professing to be their only guide in life.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
Which brings up another point: As a Christian and American, I am very offended by the assertion by these right-wing zealots that the United States is a Christian nation. I would like proof of where EXACTLY in the Constitution it says we are a Christian nation. If people want to follow the Bible in their own personal lives, fine. Do not legislate Biblical law. This is NOT a theocracy. You want a theocracy? Move to Iran. Leave my religion alone.

           

Now what needs to happen is that you need to get those loudmouthed preacher types who are good at getting people angry and get them on your bandwagon. Get Christians angry about what these pesudo-Christians are doing to Christ's real message.

Yeah, Jesus WAS a socialist, among other things. He was a downright hippie, actually. Assuming he existed, he probably even smoked hashish, since this was a commonplace in the Mid-East at the time. Go figger.
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:13 pm

The Green Lantern? I always thought it would be Batman.
 
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:16 am

Well,

As of this morning, their Facebook page is down. Reports say it is temporary as they do damage control on all the backlash they have been getting!
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AeroWesty
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RE: "One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda

Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 44):
As a Christian and American, I am very offended by the assertion by these right-wing zealots that the United States is a Christian nation. I would like proof of where EXACTLY in the Constitution it says we are a Christian nation.

The odd thing about this is that the Declaration of Independence refers to the "Creator", and appeals to the "Supreme Judge" during the course of independence, closing with "a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence," with the signatories pledging their "sacred Honor." Of course, most of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons as well, not a particularly welcome group within Christianity.

When Harry Truman wrote to Pope Pius XII that, "This is a Christian nation," I believe that his meaning to be that the laws of our society were founded on Judeo-Christian values. I do believe many, perhaps even a majority at one time, did believe that the US is/was a Christian nation.

The Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-10 to the Constitution) is where religious freedom and a secular Federal state was enshrined into law. A good thing, as the original band of Colonists were escaping religious persecution in Europe, seeking a place for religious refuge.

Anyway, right or wrong, that's my view of the situation.
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