So I was looking through my twitter feed, and I come across a link to this donation pool to give a bus monitor a vacation. Fair enough, I suppose that she probably can't afford one. Then I saw the attached video.

Dude, seriously, WTF is wrong with some kids? With all of the anti-bullying stuff I see left and right lately, did it somehow miss these kids? No one should be treated like this. Nobody. Ever. Period. Especially one's elders.

Seriously, WTF?

http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein

Wow. That is crazy. And to think these are middle school kids! Wait until they get to high school. I just graduated from high school, and unfortunately I have seen things like this happen before (not as bad though). Not to bus monitors (we don't even have monitors), but to teachers. And you know what the bad thing is? Teachers just put up with it. Sometimes the teacher gives the student a referral, but it never does any good. And this is becoming all too common.

It's really sad how some students act. And it's not just verbally either. I've been in a class where a student set a trash can on fire, put a piece of paper on fire, put a condom on the teachers water bottle, throw something at her, an even curse a teacher out. And the students barely got punished, if at all. It's very messed up. The whole "punishment" system is all messed up. Punishments never do any good. They aren't severe enough. The "ultimate" punishment would be to have the student expelled from school. But guess what? Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate. And if the rate gets too high (about 50 students in my school out of about 1700 students), the state comes in and takes over and the whole administration is at risk of getting fired.

I just think the whole education system is VERY messed up. It is RIDICULOUS how hard teachers have to work just to have one student pass their class, when the student doesn't even care to begin with. But guess what? If the student fails, it goes against the teachers record and also against the schools drop out record, because once a student fails a class, the chance of them dropping out rises significantly.

I'm glad that I am out of high school, and that I am going to college and that I will actually get to be with students that actually want to learn (or at least for the most part). For the most part, I took honors and AP classes, so I definitely didn't see all that I could have. But the few regular classes I did have, it was very different.....

We don't just have kids bulling kids these day is seems now they bully parents, I saw at a 99 cent store about two years ago a seven or eight year old boy threaten out loud that if his mom did not buy cookies for him he would soil his pants in public and now a school staff member of the school is subjected to kid bullying. There is no excuse for bad behavior even in a bad economy but this is particularly grotesque. I must ask, what is going on at home?

Every kid who abused that woman (and that's what it is: abuse) should, at the very minimum, lose their bus-riding privileges. Make their parents drive them to school and pick them up at the end of the day. And if the parents can't spare the time, too damn bad - maybe then they can impress upon their kids how important it is to treat people with respect.

Nobody deserves to be treated like that simply for trying to do their job. And I'm glad to see that so much money has been raised in support of her.

-Mir

What the hell is wrong with kids?

Their parents. That's what's wrong.

I think it has more to do with the parents than the kids. I also think part of the problem is that parents and schools no longer discipline kids the way they used to.

Quoting EricR (Reply 6): I also think part of the problem is that parents and schools no longer discipline kids the way they used to.

I don't know that it's any worse, because today's crappy parents must have been raised by crappy parents.

Props to her for not flipping out on the little stuck up pricks. If that would've happened, one of the kids parents would have gone to the school the next morning, talked to the principal, and had her fired.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): And the students barely got punished, if at all. It's very messed up. The whole "punishment" system is all messed up. Punishments never do any good. They aren't severe enough. The "ultimate" punishment would be to have the student expelled from school. But guess what? Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate.

Yep. I graduated High School in 2010. My school expelled a few kids, but most punishments were out of school suspension. Great idea, make the kid go home for 5 days so he can be home alone and invite over all of his friends who were also suspended and they can all smoke pot together. That will teach them. For less serious offenses, the student got a referral, which does nothing. Maybe they would get in-school suspension, where they couldn't socialize with anyone all day. ..one step above out of school suspension.

I think my middle school had the right idea for punishment, even though it was only an alternate to suspension, or to have a (virtually meaningless) referral wiped off your record. It was called "boot camp" where the school resource officer led the group of students who would have to do military type drills during the school day, and do their classwork as well. It was a good way to teach them discipline. It made examples of the students as well, when they would have to do drills or stand at attention in front of their classmates. Looking at their website, I can't find any mention of the program, so I guess they did away with it. Probably a pissed off parent of an embarrassed kid threatening to sue.

Holy Christ I wish I was on that bus I would have grabbed that little bastard by the throat I don't care if I went to jail for it. I would have said ok my fat ass has you by the throat what are you going to do now? F'kn punk ass kids have no respect for elders these days. I would have got my ass beat if I ever came even close to what they did and of course I would never have done that since I was raised properly.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 8): Maybe they would get in-school suspension, where they couldn't socialize with anyone all day. ..one step above out of school suspension.

Totally agree with you. ISS does way more than OSS. At least with ISS, you can't enjoy yourself because you can't talk to anyone and do busy work all day (not that I would know, I've never even had a referral, just what I've heard).

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 8): I can't find any mention of the program, so I guess they did away with it. Probably a pissed off parent of an embarrassed kid threatening to sue.

That's the problem. One parent gets mad, then it all goes to heck. See at least one story about a parent getting mad each week on the news. I know in my middle school, the principal was able to paddle the students, as long as the parents gave permission. Of course they might have done away with that by now.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): What the hell is wrong with kids? Their parents. That's what's wrong

I don't know. I think it's real easy to say that, but I don't think it's the whole story either. By way of anecdote, I have a seven year old that I've yet to send to her room, and she's generally very well behaved. Manipulative as all hell, but generally polite, and likely the type who'd be embarrassed to be seen with the types in the video. Her ten year old sister, OTOH is a bit more... active. Though most of the time that one is well enough behaved not to be a liability, she has been subject to disciplinary and/or counseling actions in the past, and requires a bit more attention.

Both are growing up in the same home, but again, for the smaller one, virtually all form of discipline is surplus to her needs.

As for the kids in the video, what has me concerned is that I hear a lot of "peer pressure" going on there. They're antagonizing this woman with a complete lack of stimulus, which tells me someone started it to be "cool" and the rest are jumping on to one up one another. They may well be otherwise good kids. As a parent, that would be the type of thing I'd want to look out for, as there will not be signs of this behavior at home.

I'd say the problem with kids these days is political correctness and anti smacking laws, here in Norway you can't smack a kid, the schools drill this into them at an early age, if mum or dad give you a wack you have to report them, parents are too scared to discipline them so they become horrible unruly kids, just imagine what they sort of adults they will turn into.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): And you know what the bad thing is? Teachers just put up with it. Sometimes the teacher gives the student a referral, but it never does any good. And this is becoming all too common.

Every parent believes their child in an angel. Their precious would never do anything like that. Teachers are not allowed to do anything but give a referral. If they do any real discipline, they are fired and sued by the parents becuase it would scar their children. HA!! Maybe the parent's should get involved in their child's life.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate.

Thanks to No Child Left Behind...

Quoting Goldenshield (Thread starter): What The Hell Is Wrong With Kids These Days?

A great question I'd like to know the answer to! I'm merely a year or two older than these kids... while the kids at the school I've attended for middle and ninth grade (transferring this summer elsewhere) where not like this with faculty and staff (likely because it was a private school and booting people out is much easier) they could be with fellow students. What amazes me about this is the sheer stupidity of these kids. Saying things like this to an employee of the school district... and recording it while they are at it! And putting it online! Anyone with half a brain would realize that this would be an incredibly stupid thing to do... then again, kids my age don't do very much thinking before they act (that is, if they think at all.) . And this is the generation that I will have to live with; that's what worries me!

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12): I'd say the problem with kids these days is political correctness and anti smacking laws,

Absolutely !

And ironically, its probably been brought on by these kids very parents   

Bring back corporal punishment.

The sooner the better IMHO !

I say whip these kids arses AND their parents arses and then we'll see some results.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13): Every parent believes their child in an angel.

I don't, I have good kids but they can be right little #¤%&'s at times, especially when you want them to behave.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15): Bring back corporal punishment.

I agree bring it back. Caning was banned in my second to last year at school; you can imagine the chaos at an all boys school without any viable method of punishment, detention don't work. I was caned a few times, it hurt but it worked.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): What the hell is wrong with kids? Their parents. That's what's wrong.

So true. The Kid's today are extremly spoiled, don't know where the limit's are, have no manners, they even talk utterly bad to each other.

Because they have everything and can do everything they are bored and do not know what to do. So the torture people for fun.

Even in the school a teacher that punish a student for something has not the backup from the parents, instead they get trouble with the parents and schoolboard.

IMO there should be a driving license to get kids and learn how to educate them. I would join that without hesitation.

I really dislike their behavior, but isn't that a genuine part of our culture that the winners are entitled to make fun of the losers? I think most people do it here and there, albeit not as raw and uncultured as these kids.

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 19): I really dislike their behavior, but isn't that a genuine part of our culture that the winners are entitled to make fun of the losers? I think most people do it here and there, albeit not as raw and uncultured as these kids.

Perhaps...but who the hell are a bunch of middle school kids to deem anyone else a "loser"!

Here is a 68-year old lady who is still healthy, able to live independently, work, and continue to contribute to society. Probably after raising a family etc. THAT IS WIN.

Getting bullied by a bunch of nosepickers who have accomplished absolutely NOTHING yet.

Quoting Goldenshield (Thread starter): What The Hell Is Wrong With Kids These Days?

I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore. If you can't do that, you have a much lower risk of failing, e.g. at climbing a tree - but failure teaches you about your own limits and it shows you that guidance from others (as well as cooperation with them) is valuable.

Another symptom of that micro-management is that the children don't learn to deal with boredom as much as they used to. When they're told to do this, that and the other all day long, they get bored and hence aggressive when they aren't given some sort of occupation. Daydreaming has been declared an unproductive waste of time, yet I'm sure it was an important part of the childhoods of most a.netters.

To all the supporters of corporal punishment: Do you honestly believe that beatings will instill respect in children? They may well make them "behave", but solely out of fear - a fear that nurtures hatred for the beating authoritarian and admiration for the bully who stands up to him. Respect is mutual and cannot be conjured up through violence.

I shall tell you a "hypothetical" story here.

Lets say there was a person in my life who is around 30 years my senior and used to be a teacher.

He was teching a geography class and there was an annoying little brat teasing another child who was larger than the other children. The larger child was obviosly getting annoyed with the little brat calling him names and poking him in the tummy etc. My father The teacher decided to ignore it and could see the larger boy becoming angry untill he lashed out at the brat, being bigger than the brat the larger boy did some damage (black eye etc) but only one hit. The brat then started to wail "sir, sir he hit me, HE HIT ME!", the teacher then raised his eyebrows to the brat and said "well I didn't see anything and I can't think of any reason why he would hit you", the protests stopped and I think justice was done. The brat was much better behaved after he learned about the real word.

I was taught something very important by my father and that was with discipline (works for both kids and animals) that it doesn't matter too much where the line of discipline is drawn but it must always remain in the same place, people need to know the limits. A routine can aid this tremendously and I think that thats what a lot of young people today don't have.

Although:

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore.

This is also important, but it should fit around a framework. Children do need to play and adventure (I think they learn a lot from it) and they do need to be allowed to hurt themselves (not catastrophically of course but a bloody knee will be ok).


Fred


P.S. I know I am not speaking as a parent here (I do have much experience with animals however). The phrase "speaking as a mother" is one of the worste expressions in the world I find because it comes accross to me as "I am someone who was able to mate successfully"

Hopefully, they will no longer be able to ride the bus to school. Maybe the parents can teach them some manners when they have to drive them in every morning.......

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13): Every parent believes their child in an angel. Their precious would never do anything like that.

And that's part of the problem. Many parents are too short-sighted to see that their kid is still a kid, and that being a kid, they will not follow strict moral code 100% of the time; they will do dumb things; they will make stupid decisions. Since this is on Youtube, it's likely that this video will haunt these kids for the rest of their lives.

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore. If you can't do that, you have a much lower risk of failing, e.g. at climbing a tree - but failure teaches you about your own limits and it shows you that guidance from others (as well as cooperation with them) is valuable.

Having been witness to many a nagging parent when it comes to music studies, I can say that there's truth to this. In the case of the music, the kids aren't allowed to play around musically with what they've learned, and the parents will yell at them if they aren't practicing exactly what's on the lesson. The kid can't grow if he's trapped in the shell.

Without minimizing how horrible the incident is--and how much each of us would teach each of those kids a lesson--let's not use this incident as a jumping off point to generalize about what's wrong with America's youth. Kids can be jerks (and worse) for a variety of reasons, and it's pointless to generalize without knowing more about the incident and the various backgrounds of the kids. For some, maybe it is the case that the parents weren't strict enough--but for others, their parents may not have been there at all--and then there are kids that, for whatever reason, are just jerks regardless of how involved their parents are. And then there is the very real influence of peer pressure on kids that might otherwise be upstanding citizens.
Stuff like this has always happened--the difference is the prevalence of cell phone cameras and media eager to capitalize on the newest potential for sensationalism.

I can't play the parent/no parent/peer pressure angle, because that's all speculation, though its videos like this that make me wonder whether the old paddle punishment might still work in the most extreme cases. The reality, sadly, is that we don't know what these kids lives are like at home,how much was due to peer pressure etc. Even Karen, the woman who was bullied, acknowledged that a lot of those kids alone are fine and that peer pressure was probably a huge influence. Not that peer pressure makes any of this right, because in my book, it doesn't, and each of those kids should be held accountable.

If there's any good in all of this, the great news is that this was all caught on camera from supposedly multiple angles. Let's hope these kids are forced to do some major hours volunteering at a retirement home, write a speech on what they learned from listening to elderly people, and then give that speech, yes, on camera.

I was just on indiegogo and saw that over $140,000 has been raised for this woman to take a vacation, and there are still 30 more days of fundraising. If this trend keeps up, this woman won't have to be on the bus much longer and may be able to take a vacation us a.netters could only dream about.

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): To all the supporters of corporal punishment: Do you honestly believe that beatings will instill respect in children? They may well make them "behave", but solely out of fear - a fear that nurtures hatred for the beating authoritarian and admiration for the bully who stands up to him. Respect is mutual and cannot be conjured up through violence.

As long as it is reasonable, then yes. And I don't think any of us mean giving the kid a black eye. I'm sure most of us mean spanking the kid. Spanking a kid isn't violence as long as it is done reasonable. When the kid gets a spanking, they realize what they did wrong, probably better then if their parents talked to them. I got spanked when I was a kid, but I never felt any hatred. Yes, I was very upset, but I knew that I deserved it.

By the way, this has hit national news now, and over $170,000 raised as if now. Amazing.

To make matter worse I heard on the radio this morning, that she is widowed and lost her son to suicide 10 years ago. Good news though, through donations they have raised over 100 thousand dollars, so she won't have to put up with kids like this again.

We all know at this age kids think they know it all. Paddling within controled parameters should still be an option of punishment in schools. Some say paddling is cruel or not right, but guess what, it worked most of the time. Sometimes it takes a level of physical contact to bring a kid under control or to their senses. I was paddled only once in school by my 1st grade teacher and I knew not to do it again, but I wasn't afraid of her but rather the paddle. My teacher went to the same church as me and we would always laugh about that paddling as I got older. Of course the best punishment is embarrassment, these kids should all be forced to stand on the street corner with sandwich boards on explaining that they are bullies. And they'll quikly know what the real world has to say to them.

Left me speechless. Makes you wonder what their parent's are doing.

This is just wrong on so many levels. This is part of the reason I am no longer very interested in K-12 Education. I guess the small victories is that there are hundreds of thousands who are standing behind the woman and the superintendent of the school says all the students involved will be punished by the district once the new year starts in the fall.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16): I say whip these kids arses AND their parents arses and then we'll see some results.

Exactly. The problem is they have no fear of consequences.

I grew-up in the deep south.
The old Southern Baptists had a mantra about kids----"beat 'em,beat 'em, beat 'em.
If they even looked funny they got whipped.
"Yes sir" and "yes ma'am", no back 'talkin, no 'cussin, no 'lyin, no 'stealin, and no 'whinnin and you'd better make A's on your report card or you would be in the "danger zone".

Needless to say THAT era has passed!

Back in highschool one 16 year old male student became extremely fresh and insulting towards a male teacher, thinking probably "what can the teacher do?". (Physically fit) teacher invited the kid for a few rounds of boxing behind the school. Offer was refused by said student, who slung back with his tail between his legs.

Jan

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): Quoting EricR (Reply 6): I also think part of the problem is that parents and schools no longer discipline kids the way they used to. I don't know that it's any worse, because today's crappy parents must have been raised by crappy parents.

About a year ago, an elementary school principle was interviewed regarding how schools no longer had the ability to discipline students in the same manner that they used to. Among other things, he said that once they took away his ability to paddle unruly kids, they took away his last form of true discipline. Students these days do not have as much to fear when they get out of control.

Furthermore, parents no longer discipline kids like they used to 20 to 30 years ago. They also teach them very little in the way of basic manners.

Quoting EricR (Reply 33): Furthermore, parents no longer discipline kids like they used to 20 to 30 years ago. They also teach them very little in the way of basic manners.

While I generally agree - Think about it this way: the kids that were "disciplined" years ago are the parents of the kids doing these things.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 29): Left me speechless. Makes you wonder what their parent's are doing.

To further expand on your thought, if I may, this incident makes me wonder what we (as a society) could do but are NOT doing. I don't think these kids truly understand the concept of hurting somebody.

This reminds me of the incident at Rutgers University where a student secretly taped a gay student (who later went on to commit suicide). I read afterwards a lengthy piece on the accused student and what transpired there is that he did the taping not because of the other student's sexual orientation - he did it mostly because he couldn't comprehend that his actions could affect someone else. In fact, in conversations that the accused student had with friends, he was more embarrassed that he was rooming with a poor student than a gay one. He was raised in a wealthy family as a school star, sheltered from the harsh reality of the world around him and unaware that other people don't have such a good life.

Tying this story to this incident, I wouldn't be surprised if these kids come from regular middle class families where there's always food on the table, heat in the winter, and new presents for Christmas. They treated this lady the same way as the business frequent flyer attacks the gate agent because he won't get his upgrade, or a political activist attacks a supporter of the opposing political party because their side didn't win the elections. In other words, our lives are often so good for so long that we end up either overreacting to seemingly minor irritations as if they were serious problems or we simply don't develop the ability to have empathy for another person and thus never learn to recognize when we are truly hurting somebodey else.

"America, beat yo' kids"

-RIP
Bernie Mac

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): Respect is mutual and cannot be conjured up through violence.

Violence would imply the element of anger or hate. Parents need to be clear on their motives for punishing their children in any situation.

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): Daydreaming has been declared an unproductive waste of time, yet I'm sure it was an important part of the childhoods of most a.netters.

Not mine. Of course I had plenty of "playtime", but academics and chores/work were always a priority.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 29):

  

Shitty, ineffective parenting.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 31): "Yes sir" and "yes ma'am", no back 'talkin, no 'cussin, no 'lyin, no 'stealin, and no 'whinnin

  

When I was a kid, I knew the following would happen if I did stupid shit:

- My parents would know about it before I walked in the front door.
- My parents would smack my ass into next week.
- In addition to smacking my ass around, If it was school related, both the faculty and my parents would sit down and come up with the worst punishment(s) imaginable.
- I would spend the rest of my life in "solitary".
- If financial compensation was required because my recklessness, I would bear the full cost.
- "Hard labour" would probably be involved.

None of that was/is abusive or counterproductive. None of that ever fostered a lifetime of hatred towards my parents and teachers. It's called structure.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 37): - My parents would know about it before I walked in the front door.

  This is so true!

Quoting mt99 (Reply 34): While I generally agree - Think about it this way: the kids that were "disciplined" years ago are the parents of the kids doing these things.

So are you saying that the old way of disciplining kids (which kept them in check) ultimately created bad parenting skills? I don't think so. I think it has a lot to do with a fundamental shift in lifestyles and culture overall.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32): Back in highschool one 16 year old male student became extremely fresh and insulting towards a male teacher, thinking probably "what can the teacher do?". (Physically fit) teacher invited the kid for a few rounds of boxing behind the school. Offer was refused by said student, who slung back with his tail between his legs.

No good these days.

Then teacher would be looking for a new job the following day.

Quoting Goldenshield (Thread starter): Dude, seriously, WTF is wrong with some kids?

Parents!

In almost all likelihoods, it's always either:
1. Parents don't give a damn or lacking it...
2. Parents fear punishment for "disciplining" their kids.

Society's Utopian ideals are replacing older Utilitarian ideals.
Instead of allowing kids to have a free hand in disciplining their children and we get a few cases of abused children, we now limit that capability, got rid of the abused children cases, but we are producing millions of "little bastards".

If an abused kid is severity 10000, and a little bastard is severity 1... 10000 little bastards in exchange of 1 abused kid is already a losing proposition!

Now where's that daddy who shot his daughter's laptop ?   

The good thing is according to French news (source: http://www.lepoint.fr/insolite/usa-u...obilise-21-06-2012-1476246_48.php) she earned $ 176.000 in donations, so if she wants to, she can just take the money and NOT WORK anymore for the rest of her life.

And after what I've seen on that video, and with her age, she does deserve it.

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 41): And after what I've seen on that video, and with her age, she does deserve it.

I agree. !

With what the woman has been through, she deserves every penny

Only, I'd make the family of the little bastard pay, twice in fact, once to her, and the other to charity.   

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): Teachers just put up with it. Sometimes the teacher gives the student a referral, but it never does any good. And this is becoming all too common.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): Their parents. That's what's wrong.

For both posts this photo says it all.

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 8): Yep. I graduated High School in 2010. My school expelled a few kids, but most punishments were out of school suspension. Great idea, make the kid go home for 5 days so he can be home alone and invite over all of his friends who were also suspended and they can all smoke pot together.

That isn't new, suspensions have been occurring for decades and the potential do that is the same as its always been.

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 9): Holy Christ I wish I was on that bus I would have grabbed that little bastard by the throat I don't care if I went to jail for it.

You are a male that still has some fight in you I guess but what is this woman supposed to do physically to these kids. Bullies by nature pick on those weaker than them, that is the unfortunate part of this incident.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13): Every parent believes their child in an angel. Their precious would never do anything like that.

Bad Parents believe their children are angels, good parents know what their kids are up to. Parents today should be smarter as they were kids once too, also kids observe this often from the home. My parents told me what would happen if I started smoking however if my parents did something they didn't want me to do they had no moral obligation to prevent me from doing it.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12): I'd say the problem with kids these days is political correctness and anti smacking laws

There are studies that smacking kids make them more likely to become bullies and it only really works for pre pubescent kids. For me it worked until I was about 12 and there was a time that my dad hit me and I hit him back because it I could. My mum hit my brother once and he said to her "I could kill you right now" now you may think that we are terrible people but there comes a time that the kids get the upper hand against their parents as teenagers in the physical realm.

We both turned out fine, its just that are parents had to discipline us in other ways than smacking us. Parenting has to evolve when kids grow up but these kids are well within smacking age.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 22): The brat then started to wail "sir, sir he hit me, HE HIT ME!", the teacher then raised his eyebrows to the brat and said "well I didn't see anything and I can't think of any reason why he would hit you"

Reminds me of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBAy3901kc

Quoting aloges (Reply 21): To all the supporters of corporal punishment: Do you honestly believe that beatings will instill respect in children? They may well make them "behave", but solely out of fear - a fear that nurtures hatred for the beating authoritarian and admiration for the bully who stands up to him. Respect is mutual and cannot be conjured up through violence.

Correct and eventually those kids will do the same to others as they will think its normal. Some might think that fear thing is good and it is to a certain point.

However if a kid is behaving himself then they should get more freedom and trust and if they misbehave they get less trust and freedom. That is how my parents built mutual respect with me, overly lenient parents and overly strict parents are not good.

Quoting EricR (Reply 38): Quoting TheCol (Reply 37): - My parents would know about it before I walked in the front door.   This is so true!

Same with me.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 40): Now where's that daddy who shot his daughter's laptop ?

Lets see how that works out for him, social services seemed to be fine with it as they were called in to interview the family. I agree with his message but not his methods as in shooting the laptop, give it to charity or confiscate it.

Kids have always griped about their parents so that is not new they just do it now on Facebook, so I don't think she did a whole lot wrong. If that is the worst she does then he should consider himself lucky.

Quoting EricR (Reply 33): Furthermore, parents no longer discipline kids like they used to 20 to 30 years ago. They also teach them very little in the way of basic manners.

Agreed.

And I don't think it needs to go as far as physical punishment in most cases. Most kids rely on their parents for a lot of 'luxuries' that can be taken away (TV/computer/games etc.). Taking some of that stuff away would show kids where their bread gets buttered pretty quickly.

I'm not a fan of bringing back physical punishment in schools, but I also think that parents should have the right to jam up their kids without the fear of getting arrested.

Quoting EricR (Reply 38): So are you saying that the old way of disciplining kids (which kept them in check) ultimately created bad parenting skills? I don't think so. I think it has a lot to do with a fundamental shift in lifestyles and culture overall.

I do believe that overreliance on physical punishments does teach the wrong message about violence. But the ability to show physical dominance over an unruly child should remain with parents.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 44): And I don't think it needs to go as far as physical punishment in most cases. Most kids rely on their parents for a lot of 'luxuries' that can be taken away (TV/computer/games etc.). Taking some of that stuff away would show kids where their bread gets buttered pretty quickly.

More effective than hitting them usually.

Quoting EricR (Reply 38): So are you saying that the old way of disciplining kids (which kept them in check) ultimately created bad parenting skills? I don't think so. I think it has a lot to do with a fundamental shift in lifestyles and culture overall.

It creates a lot of resentment towards your parents, I read an article that argued that the Tiger Mom and Eagle Dad parenting methods will create a boon for psychologists in 20 years.
My mum was raised that way and eventually when she was older called her father on it and when he passed away last year she really didn't mourn a whole lot.

Also the law of diminishing returns will take effect if parents simply smack kids whenever they step out of line and it will lose its effectiveness. It was usually used on me when I was rude or as a method to rein in a temper tantrum. If I misbehaved at school then I never was smacked.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 31): I grew-up in the deep south. The old Southern Baptists had a mantra about kids----"beat 'em,beat 'em, beat 'em. If they even looked funny they got whipped. "Yes sir" and "yes ma'am", no back 'talkin, no 'cussin, no 'lyin, no 'stealin, and no 'whinnin and you'd better make A's on your report card or you would be in the "danger zone".

You turned out alright didn't you?

I think this whole thing is out of control. She deserves an sincere apology and the little brats deserve a good lashing but I am I the only one bothered by the fact that this woman's job was as a bus monitor. Middle School kids are notorious asses but she couldn't even stand up for herself so what is she going to do when the brats start picking on another student?

$500000 and a free trip to disneyland because some kids were mean to you seems like a bit much IMHO.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46): You turned out alright didn't you?

No! LOL

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 47): $500000 and a free trip to disneyland because some kids were mean to you seems like a bit much IMHO.

I completely agree.

When I got taunted on the playground went home crying the first time, my dad told me to toughen up and fight back.
Next time it happened, I stood my ground and well, the cops were at our house later that night. Dad was proud.