RussianJet
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'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:47 pm

So what will happen to the Interior Minister for making such blatantly racist comments, during an interview about South Sudanese refugees? I guess not much, but would love to be proved wrong.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/...sudan-israel-is-for-the-white-man/

Really quite sad. Pretty hard to take the nation seriously if these are the kinds of words government ministers can go around saying. Religious differences we are kind of used to hearing about, but is out and out racism based on skin colour as prevalent in Israel as would be suggested by the fact that a government minister thinks it is ok to say things like this? Far from all Jews are white. Are non-white Jews routinely discriminated against in Israeli society?
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BestWestern
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:27 am

This person isn't just racist, but anti everything non white zionist it seems - demonstrated by this quote in the article....

“The infiltrators along with the Palestinians will quickly bring us to the end of the Zionist dream,”

Remembering that it took Ireland a long time to get there, I dream of a time when Israel will become a normal state, and not just a division of a religious majority.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
QFA380
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:17 am

This is a such a shame they're saying this and the Immigration minister should (and will) be condemned. Educated and valuable Africans -and anyone else- willing to integrate into Israeli society should be welcomed.

However I have a feeling that many are outraged that Israel is sending back refugees and this minister is just trying to cause more internal tensions. However the whole point of asylum is protection from persecution and danger to life. If circumstances change such that it is no longer a danger, ie having your own country, then they should be returned home. Thats without mentioning that many of the South Sudanese are illegal immigrants who were granted de facto asylum despite not going through appropriate channels.

Funny the hypocrisy in dealing with Israel, people will say Palestinian refugees should be given their own country and free to go home. However give South Sudanese a country and tell them to go home and chaos and cries of racism ensue. I can guarantee that my own country would not send any Palestinian refugees home in the event of a sovereign Palestine emerging and they certainly wouldn't halt the gravy train and leave themselves.

This is one of my major criticisms of modern asylum law, that it is now seen as easier to just resettle refugees than it is to try and fix some of the problems that exist in their home countries. Asylum should not be permanent unless it absolutely must be, many asylum seekers are not the saints the left portrays them as. A people smuggler living here was recently outed, and coincidentally lived just down the road from me. In my old small hometown a reasonably large number of Sudanese refugees were settled, the government finding it easy (and cheap) to dump them on small country towns.

As for this individual politician. He is the leader of the ultra-orthodox party and unfortunately for Netanyahu would have single handedly decided what position he wanted in any government. This is the biggest problem with minority governments, the larger centrist parties are forced to the fringes due to the extreme parties holding the balance of power. We're seeing it here in Australia we're the government has taken a hard left turn thanks to the Greens.

Sorry for the slightly off topic and ranty post.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:38 am

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
So what will happen to the Interior Minister for making such blatantly racist comments,

Oh, he'll probably become President one day !

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
This is a such a shame

Yes it is.

But it is by on means the first time that Israel has been accused of being raciest, even to is own Arab citizens living within Israel. Even to this day there are many who hold the belief, that Arabs, have no place in Israeli society.

This article from long ago, highlights the increases of racism reported to the association for Civil Rights in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/civil-ri...hed-new-heights-of-racism-1.234831

So, I suppose it should not seem all that shocking, to see Israel doing this sort of thing to the South Sudanese refugees, Indeed, who will be next to be banished !  
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
cedarjet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:33 pm

Totally in step with everything Israel stands for - race, and therefore racism, is the whole basis for it's foundation. Palestinians who have lived on the land for two thousand years in a country called Palestine have zero rights; what chance does someone from SOUTH SUDAN have?!
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eaa3
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Israel isn't a state built on the ideals of people being equal. Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

I think that this issue is the core issue for Israel. It's a state built on discrimination which is not a democratic ideal. Israel fundamentally needs to rethink how it works because legitimate democratic countries don't discriminate and they protect minorities.
 
RussianJet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

Because that's basic human decency.
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avi
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:37 pm

About 2 weeks ago a thread was opened here with the title "You Know What We Haven't Had In A While?" and it is still in the first page.
My initial thought was "bashing Israel thread". I didn't say anything because I didn't want to start one and now I don't have to.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Far from all Jews are white.

… and that includes the Interior Minister himself and since he doesn't see himself "white", there is no way he said that.

He actually feels persecuted by the "white" people in Israel and no matter how bad he is (and he is) or how racist he is (and he is) there is no way he will use these words (and I don't care what the blog says). It is not him.

If "Israel for the white man", in his view he doesn't have a place here.

He did say (many times) this (illegal) immigration risks the "Jewish state". Personally I think this is BS but not only we have every right to stop this illegal immigration, we have the obligation to do so as every other country in the world has and does.

But, have fun, enjoy yourself.
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting avi (Reply 7):

But, have fun, enjoy yourself.
Quoting avi (Reply 7):
"bashing Israel thread"

There's no need for that. If you feel that, as you put it, there is no way he could have said that, then please explain why it is being widely reported in the media that he did. If it's wrong then please explain why. This is not about bashing Israel, it is about exploring why, if true as reported, a government minister should say such a thing. You'll certainly get no argument from me on the need to control illegal immigration, it's just that comments about skin colour like that are to say the least very distasteful, and would do nothing for the government's international credibility.

I posted recently about pathetic sentencing for criminals in my own country, the UK. I don't view that as a 'UK bashing thread' but rather a discussion about deficient sentencing in our legal system. So, can we discuss the comments and what is right or wrong about the reports on this matter in the media rather than leaping to the default 'Israel bashing' defensive position?
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BMI727
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
He did say (many times) this (illegal) immigration risks the "Jewish state".

No kidding. Just look at what illegal immigration did to the Arabs that lived there before 1948.

Of course, we have to overlook the hypocrisy of someone whose message is essentially that it's not okay to discriminate against someone for not being white but it is okay to discriminate against someone for not being Jewish.
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yyz717
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:05 pm

The minister's comments are unfortunate and of course do not reflect the views of the democratically elected government of Israel.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
Totally in step with everything Israel stands for - race, and therefore racism, is the whole basis for it's foundation. Palestinians who have lived on the land for two thousand years in a country called Palestine have zero rights;

Israel's foundation is based on religion, not race. There are white (ashkenazi) Israeli's, Mediterranean (sephardic) Israeli's and many others. Israel is actually a very multicultural nation by race, and also by religion (albeit with a Jewish majority).

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Israel isn't a state built on the ideals of people being equal. Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
avi
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If you feel that, as you put it, there is no way he could have said that, then please explain why it is being widely reported in the media that he did.

Take a guess (here is a hint: bashing Israel is not only a A.NET thing).

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If it's wrong then please explain why.

I already did it.
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting avi (Reply 11):
I already did it.

So you said he is not white himself, and then basically just said he didn't say it. Are there any actual sources to back that up, or other supporting information?

Quoting avi (Reply 11):
Take a guess (here is a hint: bashing Israel is not only a A.NET thing).

So the media is not always right, fine. That's a given, but there are multiple sources out there and they are pretty specific about what was said. At the very least that lends weight to there being at least a grain of truth to it. So again, if there is supporting info to lend weight to the rejection of these reports then please share.
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avi
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
So you said he is not white himself, and then basically just said he didn't say it. Are there any actual sources to back that up, or other supporting information?

What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

Don't get me wrong. This guy is a disaster. Read my first post again, I did say he is a racist. Almost everything he does creates controversy.
Only last week a special report found him "guilty" and holding "special responsibility" for a fire disaster ended with 44 dead. Do you think he will go anywhere? He won't (because the PM wants to be one after the next election too).
To see him going to hell will be something that I, and many many many Israelis, will be very happy about (but don't hold your breath) but I do say I don't believe for a second he said what you put in the title (and just wait few hours to see where it is going) and I explained why (the fact that one said that in a blog and it spreads like a fire – easy thing when it comes to Israel, means nothing).
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eaa3
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

I don't see what your point is. Most ME nations are not democracies and have terrible human rights records, with a few exceptions like Turkey. But Israel would classify itself as a western democracy and as such doesn't compare itself to the ME countries. If you want to be a western democracy then the standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.
 
chepos
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:33 pm

I visited Israel last year and I am not one bit surprised by the comment made by this man. I am a dark skin individual and I was a bit surprised by the treatment I received in some places, I recall a situation were the girl downright ignored me and would not tkae my order. I have visited many countries around the world and I must say my encounter with many Israelis left a bitter taste in my mouth. Israel is a beautiful country but I have no desire to go back again.

Regards,

Chepos
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RussianJet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting avi (Reply 13):

What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

I believe you about his colour, it's just that you asserted that he did not say what the reporters say he said, so I was just wondering what the basis for such an assertion was other than the leap of logic related to his own skin.

Quoting avi (Reply 13):
I did say he is a racist

Duly noted.   
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Flighty
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:34 pm

The Afrikaaners also had their dream down in South Africa. Didn't last forever, though.
 
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yyz717
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 14):
If you want to be a western democracy then the standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.

Israel is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc

Quoting chepos (Reply 15):
I visited Israel last year and I am not one bit surprised by the comment made by this man. I am a dark skin individual and I was a bit surprised by the treatment I received in some places

I know some blue-eyed blond Canadian Jews who received the same treatment as you....so perhaps, your treatment was not based on race but just being served by angry people? Not every human experience you receive is based on your race....hence be careful crying racism.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's foundation is based on religion, not race. There are white (ashkenazi) Israeli's, Mediterranean (sephardic) Israeli's and many others. Israel is actually a very multicultural nation by race, and also by religion (albeit with a Jewish majority).

     

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

     

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 14):
standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.


Well that's because you hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else. Big surprise.  
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
srael is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

Thankyou.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc
Quoting avi (Reply 7):
My initial thought was "bashing Israel thread".

Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another. Same haters, different day.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
eaa3
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Israel is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc

It's weird that you think that I am somehow saying good things about other countries in the Middle East. I'm not. I'm saying that Israel doesn't meet the standards of western democracies. The US doesn't discriminate based on race or any other factor. Israel does in no way meet US standards for human rights.

Anyone who doesn't see that Arab Israelis are treated like second class citizens just isn't paying attention.


The fact that people don't want to emigrate to other Middle Eastern countries is true. I just don't see your point. I'm not saying that the other countries of the ME are any better. They are by and large much worse. Also the point of Israel is for people to emigrate there, which in itself is a form of discrimination because the policies discriminate between Jews and others.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Well that's because you hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else. Big surprise.

Israel is certainly held up to higher standards than other countries in the Middle East, but that's because they themselves want that. And Israel does not live up to western democratic standards on many fronts. But I don't hold Israel to a higher standard than the US or Europe. Western liberal democracies don't discriminate based upon race, religion, sex and so forth. Israel just doesn't meet that standard.

Read the book "The Crisis of Zionism" by Peter Beinart, who is btw. a zionist himself or listen to the NPR Fresh Air interview with him.
 
chepos
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
I know some blue-eyed blond Canadian Jews who received the same treatment as you....so perhaps, your treatment was not based on race but just being served by angry people? Not every human experience you receive is based on your race....hence be careful crying racism.

I know racism when I see it, enough said. I saw how I was treated, since you were not there with me you really have no room to judge the behavior I experienced. Israel- been there done that, no plans or desire to go back.
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
I didn't say anything because I didn't want to start one and now I don't have to.

Well I guess, if you wait long enough, one will be started, which is exactly what happened.

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
He actually feels persecuted by the "white" people in Israel and no matter how bad he is (and he is) or how racist he is (and he is) there is no way he will use these words (and I don't care what the blog says). It is not him.

WTF... Then why hasn't the Israeli Government, or he himself, come out and categorically denied that he said this ?

Its been very widely reported as far as I can tell. It was in 3 papers that I've seen over the last few days.   


Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If it's wrong then please explain why.

I'd like to know that too ?

Quoting avi (Reply 13):
What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

For you to stop the overreaction.

What we would like, is for you to provide evidence of a published denial, either in print or video form, because, make no mistake there would be one denial and a loud one, because if any countries Interior Minister was accused of saying this, then you'd hear then screaming form the church steeples, that they didn't say such things.

I did a detailed search on the net, for any such denial or apology, but what do we have in this case....... nothing but silence ?

This article, from Harratz, appears to suggest that there might be a hidden agenda behind Minister Eli Yisai moves to expel the Sudanese, will have to wait and see. Something about jobs....

moves.?http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/eli-yishai-s-hidden-agenda-sudanese-out-chinese-in.premium-1.436917

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
and of course do not reflect the views of the democratically elected government of Israel.

Are we sure about that ???

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

If as you claim it dose, then it must be coming from a very low base line measure. Read link below from a report done this year !!  Wow!http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41901&Cr=Palestin&Cr1=

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another

Just like all the endless threads on American politics and how divisive it is amongst you all, and the like, or is that different I suppose ?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
TheCol
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:39 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
So, I suppose it should not seem all that shocking, to see Israel doing this sort of thing to the South Sudanese refugees
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
what chance does someone from SOUTH SUDAN have?!

  

Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.



I may be completely mistaken, but I think (refugees, whether they are from Sudan or anywhere) are protected to some degree, under the international convention relating to Refuges ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

And don't forget, they were originally granted permission to stay, they weren't denied entry !

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Israel is a sovereign nation,

Absolutely, like all countries.

But there are also international agreements and obligations, which I'm sure Israel is signatory to, and as such a progressive nation (as stated in this very thread by many here) would adhere too, No ?

One thing I will say, is that Israel at least sent them back to Sudan with some $$$, which, although modest, wont solve there problems, however it will make life a littler easier in the short term.  

[Edited 2012-06-24 23:32:55]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
TheCol
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 24):
I may be completely mistaken, but I think (refugees, whether they are from Sudan or anywhere) are protected to some degree, under the international convention relating to Refuges ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

And don't forget, they were originally granted permission to stay, they weren't denied entry !
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 24):

But there are also international agreements and obligations, which I'm sure Israel is signatory to, and as such a progressive nation (as stated in this very thread by many here) would adhere too, No ?

If you aren't already familiar with the process, of which you probably are, if the host country investigates and determines that the refugee claims aren't valid, then they have every right to deport said claimants. In this case, due process was served. The supreme court likely came to their decision due to the following reasons:

1. South Sudan is now an independent country.
2. The refugee claimants entered Israel through Egypt, and many lived there for a number of years prior, which renders their claims invalid under article 31 of the CRSR.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 25):
If you aren't already familiar with the process

As I said TheCol, I may be mistaken. Your point is noted.

However, let us not get caught up in the Minutia of it all.

The fact remains as to why he said it, the manner in which it was said, and the real reason for him saying it.

I must be wrong, but I would have thought by now, that Israel, of all places and the history, would be sympathetic toward minority groups.

I'd like to think I was mistaken  
Quoting TheCol (Reply 25):
1. South Sudan is now an independent country.

I think this is part of the problem. From the refugees point of view.

[Edited 2012-06-25 02:09:18]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
RussianJet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:49 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another. Same haters, different day.

Haters?? Get a grip of yourself there. I have started this thread because of a specific event that has been reported in the press. It is a thread about words spoken by a government minister. In recent times I have started threads about various other countries too, and somehow was never called a 'hater' for doing so. Unless you want to say that this didn't actually appear in the press anywhere, and that there is nothing to discuss, or demonstrate that I have said anything remotely racist, which I have not, then please retract that vicious and unnecessary line.
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eaa3
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.

In the case of Israel that is an ironic statement. All Jewish refugees have the right to entry and citizenship.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
I know some blue-eyed blond Canadian Jews who received the same treatment as you....so perhaps, your treatment was not based on race but just being served by angry people? Not every human experience you receive is based on your race....hence be careful crying racism.

Not according to this guy....Israel can claim first place in the racism game.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national...te-in-the-developed-world-1.443908
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
EL-AL
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:13 am

Israel is the only country in the world that encouraged immigration of African people and gave them citizenship immediately:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YWXNrnDPw4
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zrs70
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
Palestinians who have lived on the land for two thousand years in a country called Palestine

A country called Palestine? Who was it's king/ president/ prime minister/ chief?
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
daviation
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another. Same haters, different day.

Yes, I was going to respond to some of the comments here, but then I thought, why bother? Certain posters have their agenda and they parse information to support that agenda.

It's a good thing that many of our political and intellectual leaders have a much greater grasp of history, and have spent their lives studying the many facets of this ongoing problem. I trust them to make informed decisions, not jump on the bumper-sticker mentality of the usual Israel-bashers.

And for our dark-skinned friend on this board, Israelis are not known for their social niceties; they can be impatient and rude, just like many people in New York, Los Angeles, and countless other places. And don't forget that Israel rescued and absorbed thousands of Ethiopian Jews when they desperately needed assistance.
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daviation
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 29):
Not according to this guy....Israel can claim first place in the racism game.

Commodore, you're at it again - using Haaretz as your primary source of information about Israel. Do you know that Haaretz is probably the least read or respected newspaper in Israel? That would be like quoting the New York Post as the newspaper of record in New York, rather than the New York Times. Haaretz is for the former leftists, who basically don't exist in Israel anymore. The doves gave up after they realized that no one on the other side is seriously interested in anything less than the elimination of Israel as the nation-state of the Jews.

Your Haaretz quotes are disingenuous at best.
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TheCommodore
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting daviation (Reply 33):
using Haaretz as your primary source of information about Israel.

Not at all. I use it as one of many different sources, as do many other posters on here a.net.

As it so happened, it was a complete coincidence that Sami Michael's article appeared in the Harratz paper about Racism in Israel. I thought it was relevant to the discussion here, especially as to what this thread is all about.

Sorry you don't share the same thoughts !

Would you have, if the article came from the J-post ?

Remember you can dismiss the messenger as much as you like, but it dose not dismiss the fact that this VERY well respected author published his views.

I have never heard of Sami Michael before, so I did some digging. And you might be surprised to learn that Sami has received many many Israeli awards for his work in Israel and abroad.

I will list some of his achievements for you....

1) Prime Minsters award.
2)International Rotary prize; Honorary Prize.
3)The Israeli Literature Prize by The Ministry of Education, Science and Art Prize.
4)WIZO Prize.
5)The ACUM Award; Brenner Prize.

And last, the biggest award from Israels President himself !

6)The President Prize.

So it would be fair to say, would it not, that this guy has some knowledge of whats going on in Israel.
The fact you don't agree with him makes very little difference to the way things are.

Quoting daviation (Reply 33):
Do you know that Haaretz is probably the least read or respected newspaper in Israel?
Quoting daviation (Reply 33):
Haaretz is for the former leftists,

So, if I quoted the J-post that's ok then, because its from the right ?

Quoting daviation (Reply 33):
The doves gave up after they realized that no one on the other side is seriously interested in anything less than the elimination of Israel as the nation-state of the Jews.

Well, its a shame that you feel Harratz wants to see Israel destroyed, I don't find that at all. I just like to see the "other side" of the whats occurring in Israel. There are several newspapers in Israel, maybe you should read some of them.

Quoting daviation (Reply 33):
Your Haaretz quotes are disingenuous at best.

Really, I felt I was being very frank about the situation.
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daviation
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:34 am

Well, you got me! OK, let Israel give back all of the West Bank, end the blockage of Gaza (except for medical and food supplies, which is already unblocked). Basically, go back to the '67 lines.

OK, what's next? Head for the bomb shelters!
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sfbdude
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting daviation (Reply 35):

OK, what's next? Head for the bomb shelters!

Considering what the Israelis use against the Palestinians, I'd say they are the ones who need the bomb shelters. Not that it would make a difference...
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 36):
Not that it would make a difference.

Seriously?

THREE HUNDRED rockets fired into Israel already this year. Do you think hamas cares if they land in a schoolyard or a hospital?
Get real.
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daviation
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 36):
Considering what the Israelis use against the Palestinians

You mean random rockets aimed at civilians? Like in places such as S'derot?

You've obviously never been to Israel. I've heard all about the discrimination of Arabs too - until I went to Hadassah Hospital and saw 90% Arab patients receiving free medical treatment. And saw 100% Muslim towns in the Galilee with fabulous homes.

Honestly, despite all the fears, I think the average Israeli and the average Palestinian just want to live in peace. But even the greatest political minds don't know how to get there. It sure isn't going to be solved here. Especially with posters who think the Israelis are hell-bent on killing all Arabs!
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signol
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:44 am

I recently read a book on the Palestinian situation, very enlightening.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Times-in-Palestine-ebook/dp/B00513NHNI

Well worth a read.

signol
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sfbdude
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 37):
Seriously?

THREE HUNDRED rockets fired into Israel already this year. Do you think hamas cares if they land in a schoolyard or a hospital?
Get real.

If your able to find some stats on casualties and damage done from both sides, I think it'll speak for itself. You can bold, italicize, underline, capitalize whatever you want, it won't change the reality of things. get real

Quoting daviation (Reply 38):

I have been there twice in early 2000 and don't plan on ever going back. And I agree, the average person there just wants to live in peace.
 
smittyone
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 31):
A country called Palestine? Who was it's king/ president/ prime minister/ chief?

King George VI.
 
777way
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:23 pm

What about the non-white Jews then,? especially the Ethiopians.
 
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yowza
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to.

What drivel. There are immigrants and emigrants in EVERY country in the middle east.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco

My middle name isn't Magellan but I'm pretty confident that Morocco is not in the middle east. A touch of parapraxis there my friend? Just lumping majority Muslim countries together because Muslims are "the other" in this discussion?

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
be careful crying racism.

Be careful crying "no foul."

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.

I think people are taking issue with what and how things were said. Nobody is questioning the rights of a country to exercise its sovereign rights.

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 30):

Israel is the only country in the world that encouraged immigration of African people and gave them citizenship immediately:

Of certain Africans only. Let's be serious here.

YOWza
 
cedarjet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's foundation is based on religion, not race.

That's an awful thing to say. 1. Are you telling us a million Palestinians have been forced off their land at gunpoint and made refugees and stateless and labelled as terrorists, not even over an issue of race, but merely because Israelis believe in a different imaginary friend? And 2. I suggest you learn the first thing about Judaism, a central tenet of which states that you need a Jewish mother to be considered Jewish - a non-Jew can convert but it's rare and most strands of Judaism, including many mainstream ones, don't recognise converts. So it is a race, and hence the Jewish state is based on racism, rather than religious intolerance.
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 43):

My middle name isn't Magellan but I'm pretty confident that Morocco is not in the middle east. A touch of parapraxis there my friend? Just lumping majority Muslim countries together because Muslims are "the other" in this discussion?

Morocco is very often considered to be in the Middle East for political purposes, as is most of North Africa. However, yes, I would also doubt that they have much in the way of concern of internal Israeli issues...

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 44):
- a non-Jew can convert but it's rare and most strands of Judaism, including many mainstream ones, don't recognise converts.

This is completely untrue. Conversion is difficult, compared to what you would find with the christian religions, and you will have to work for it so to speak, but to say converts are not recognized as jews, by any strand let alone mainstreams, is a complete falsehood.
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zrs70
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 45):
This is completely untrue. Conversion is difficult, compared to what you would find with the christian religions, and you will have to work for it so to speak, but to say converts are not recognized as jews, by any strand let alone mainstreams, is a complete falsehood.

I can attest to this. As a rabbi who officiates at many conversions each year, I stand with my colleagues in saying that those who convert stood at Sinai with those born Jewish.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 44):
Are you telling us a million Palestinians have been forced off their land at gunpoint and made refugees and stateless and labelled as terrorists, not even over an issue of race, bu

If you are referring to when the King of Jordan massacred them by the thousands and then ran them out of Jordan back in 1970 I don't know if that number was a million. The King of Jordan very much considered them terrorists.

Oh, but you are way too young to remember such tidbits of history such as that.
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cedarjet
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:40 am

Of course King Hussein expelled them, they weren't Jordanian and they were having a destabilising influence on his country. They were Palestinian and the country they had been expelled from was called Palestine and the people who expelled them were racially-motivated Jews creating a new country where the native inhabitants of the land would not be welcome because of their ethnicity.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Oh, but you are way too young to remember such tidbits of history such as that.

It isn't a tidbit of history, it's important. And your patronising tone isn't flattering to you or your beliefs. (I'll take the compliment about my youthful demeanour.)
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edka
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RE: 'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 48):
They were Palestinian and the country they had been expelled from was called Palestine

Why are you keep saying this? There was NEVER a country called Palestine, the term refers to a piece of land which is now Israel/West Bank/Gaza...

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 48):
It isn't a tidbit of history, it's important.

Correct, see above

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