Pyrex
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Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:34 am

So it seems a German banker has been sentenced to 8 and a half years in jail for taking a $44 million bribe from none other than Bernie Ecclestone (which the banker was kind enough to repay back using the bank's money to pay Bernie a $41 million "commission"). I am sure Ecclestone will be able to dodge this bullet by greasing the right hands once again, but as a former Formula 1 fan who has watched the sport be destroyed by Bernie I cannot help to dream watching him paraded around in a striped jumpsuit. I wonder what the effect of this will be in the market for $100+ million homes bought by spoiled little princesses, though.

Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:34 am

Anything which reduces Bernies hold over F1 can only be a good thing. The outright pursuit of money has long been a threat to the sport.
Yes a true global sport is a good idea, but not at the expense of scrapping well supported traditional races on the calendar in order to accomodate new races held at soulless concrete edifices in the back of beyond with 90% of the seats empty on race day, and the teams dodging bricks and petrol bombs on the journey from the airport.

Why has this happened ? due to the structure of F1 where just about every penny goes to Bernie and his cohorts, resulting in race tracks having to make huge payments in order to retain their slot on the calendar. I've lost track of the times the British GP has been under threat, absurd when you consider that nearly every car on the grid is manufactured within 100 miles of Silverstone, even Red Bull which claims to be Austrian is based in the next County to the track.

We see teams struggling to survive, whilst Bernies precious daughters squander money on diamond encrusted dog leads and such like, they live a life style which suggests that Imelda Marcos was living on the poverty line !
 
CPH-R
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 am

When I saw the topic, I thought it was going to be something to do with Bernie hinting at a F1 street race in London, but now I wonder if that hinting might be his way to try and garner some influence with the head honchos in the UK...?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:48 am

Bernie is nothing but an organized crime leader extorting bribes from political leaders around the world and fans to bring in his 4 wheel circus. He has to be cheating several countries of taxes. He clearly has not taught his daughters any real values. He will allow racing in countries with obscene human rights records and no real automobile manufacturing heritage. He is the kind of rich bastard fool that should be facing jail. I do hope when he dies a person takes over who will put the racing fan first, not making themselves billionaires.
 
bill142
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Anything which reduces Bernies hold over F1 can only be a good thing.

My understanding of the current ownership structure is that Bernie is little more than employee. So if the owners want him out, they'll sack him. But since he manages to screw everyone to his own benefit, CVC and the other shareholders probably see little benefit since they're raking in the money.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
I do hope when he dies a person takes over who will put the racing fan first, not making themselves billionaires.

Since F1 is owned by bankers who are interested in profits, the challenge for them when Bernie dies is who else is as good as Bernie at screwing everyone.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:56 pm

I saw this in yesterday's Financial Times. Needs a subscription to access the articles.

This is the Telegraph article:

German banker Gerhard Gribkowsky who took bribes over F1 sale jailed
Gerhard Gribkowsky, the German banker who confessed to taking bribes from Bernie Ecclestone in connection to the 2006 sale of Formula One to private equity has been jailed for eight-and-a-half years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ok-bribes-over-F1-sale-jailed.html


 

Now some happy news for F1 fans.

http://www.ledauphine.com/sport/2012...marion-jolles-convolent-a-chamonix

Congratulations to Romain Grosjean and French TV presenter Marion Jollès. Now Mr & Mrs Grosjean!

        

[Edited 2012-06-28 09:59:14]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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zckls04
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
Yes a true global sport is a good idea, but not at the expense of scrapping well supported traditional races on the calendar in order to accomodate new races held at soulless concrete edifices in the back of beyond with 90% of the seats empty on race day, and the teams dodging bricks and petrol bombs on the journey from the airport.

I don't get all this bile against Bernie. Yes, there are a few tracks with not much soul to them (China, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi), but apart from that the only awful tracks are Valencia and Hungary. Valencia's going to alternate with Barcelona next year and hopefully one day they will both be quietly dropped. Hungary I'd like to see off the calendar, but it's not the worst. Certainly I'm not weeping over the demise of Magny Cours. And I'm certainly excited about Austin. We still have Spa and Monza, Monaco and Suzuka, Canada and Malaysia, Australia and the Nurburgring (albeit alternating with Hockenheim).

Silverstone was threatened again and again with extinction, and yet somehow it survived unscathed and with a great new pit and paddock complex which it would never have had without pressure to improve.

Bernie may be a very greedy individual, but there's no doubt he has taken Formula One from a relatively obscure pastime to a globally watched sport. How many of those who complain about him have never seen Formula One before he was involved I wonder. How many of those who wax lyrical about how great Jim Clark was would even know who he was without Bernie.

If you want to watch "true motor racing" there are no shortage of options in lower formulae and American spec series. But most who watch F1 do so because, by racing standards (if not by real-world standards) it is on the cutting edge of technology. All this technology costs money though, and Bernie is largely responsible for providing it.

He does look like a gnome though, which doesn't help his image.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
How many of those who wax lyrical about how great Jim Clark was would even know who he was without Bernie.

Bernie was still a 2nd hand car dealer when Jim Clark was in F1
 
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zckls04
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:40 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 7):
Bernie was still a 2nd hand car dealer when Jim Clark was in F1

Indeed, which shows you how far reaching Bernie's influence was. If your age is correct on your profile I bet there's a good chance you'd never have heard of Jim Clark if not for Bernie. I certainly wouldn't.
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:05 pm

Bad news for F1 fans:

Earlier this morning, Marussia F1's test driver, Maria de Villota, was seriously injured during a test run in the MVR-01 at Duxford. Reports indicate that her condition is stable but serious.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-18685789

In a statement, Marussia said: "At approximately 09.15hrs BST, the Marussia F1 Team's test driver Maria de Villota had an accident in the team's MR-01 race car at Duxford Airfield, where she was testing the car for the first time.

"The accident happened at the end of her first installation run and involved an impact with the team's support truck.

"Maria has been transferred to hospital. Once her medical condition has been assessed a further statement will be issued."

    
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
but as a former Formula 1 fan who has watched the sport be destroyed by Bernie I cannot help to dream watching him paraded around in a striped jumpsuit

Really were you even old enough to watch TV when Bernie wasn't running F1, he's been top dog for longer than you've been alive.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:51 am

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
I don't get all this bile against Bernie. Yes, there are a few tracks with not much soul to them (China, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi), but apart from that the only awful tracks are Valencia and Hungary. Valencia's going to alternate with Barcelona next year and hopefully one day they will both be quietly dropped. Hungary I'd like to see off the calendar, but it's not the worst. Certainly I'm not weeping over the demise of Magny Cours. And I'm certainly excited about Austin. We still have Spa and Monza, Monaco and Suzuka, Canada and Malaysia, Australia and the Nurburgring (albeit alternating with Hockenheim).

Silverstone was threatened again and again with extinction, and yet somehow it survived unscathed and with a great new pit and paddock complex which it would never have had without pressure to improve.

Bernie may be a very greedy individual, but there's no doubt he has taken Formula One from a relatively obscure pastime to a globally watched sport. How many of those who complain about him have never seen Formula One before he was involved I wonder. How many of those who wax lyrical about how great Jim Clark was would even know who he was without Bernie.

If you want to watch "true motor racing" there are no shortage of options in lower formulae and American spec series. But most who watch F1 do so because, by racing standards (if not by real-world standards) it is on the cutting edge of technology. All this technology costs money though, and Bernie is largely responsible for providing it.

He does look like a gnome though, which doesn't help his image.

Agreed. As a fan, I am somewhat concerned over what happens to F1 after bernie. The guy, whatever methods he uses, has probably saved F1 more times than we can count.
 
na
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:10 pm

Ecclestone is a perfect mafioso, except that I cannot remember he ever employed a hired killer. That he´s a big shot in international bribery is known for decades. But he is probably the key person behind the sport´s success as well so I dont see him only as a bad man. At least he takes the money from the rich...
 
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mad99
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
I don't get all this bile against Bernie

Nor do I.
He's a business man and has grown the sport and made a lot of people vary rich.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Marussia F1's test driver, Maria de Villota

Looks bad. I saw a few pics and the 'sharp' edge of the flat bed truck was at helmet level when she crashed into it.

This is what's wrong with f1...pay drivers.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):

Earlier this morning, Marussia F1's test driver, Maria de Villota, was seriously injured during a test run in the MVR-01 at Duxford. Reports indicate that her condition is stable but serious.

She lost an eye, I really do wonder who was the irresponsible idiot who allowed her behind the wheel of an F1 car, Danica Patrick she is not.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 14):
I really do wonder who was the irresponsible idiot who allowed her behind the wheel of an F1 car

You don't think there was a chance of a car failure? She is an experienced racing driver and she has driven a F1 car before.

/Lars
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ajd1992
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 15):
You don't think there was a chance of a car failure? She is an experienced racing driver and she has driven a F1 car before.

I thought she'd driven a lot in lower formulae but never F1 or was the article I read misleading?
 
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larshjort
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 16):

I thought she'd driven a lot in lower formulae but never F1 or was the article I read misleading?

She tested Renoualts F1 car last year.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
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mad99
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting larshjort (Reply 17):
She tested Renoualts F1 car last year.

Yes she "tested" a 2009 car in 2011..
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:04 am

Quoting larshjort (Reply 15):
You don't think there was a chance of a car failure? She is an experienced racing driver and she has driven a F1 car before.

Testing is completely different, she was inexperienced in an F1 car, she shouldn't have been in it, besides at 32 she's a little long in the tooth to start an F1 career. I think she made a mistake and stomped on the gas, hence the car excellerating into the back of the truck.
 
ajd1992
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):
Testing is completely different, she was inexperienced in an F1 car, she shouldn't have been in it, besides at 32 she's a little long in the tooth to start an F1 career. I think she made a mistake and stomped on the gas, hence the car excellerating into the back of the truck.

Apparently the anti-stall kicked in, according to a report I read. If the car was in gear and the clutch was not pulled in then when the engine revved to prevent a stall.... you can see what will happen. I can't see her forgetting to pull the clutch paddle as she's driven a lot of cars with them anyway.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 20):

Apparently the anti-stall kicked in, according to a report I read.

That would be a newby error, something an experienced driver would know about.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 21):
That would be a newby error, something an experienced driver would know about.

So, if I understand you correctly - new drivers should never be allowed to drive or test F-1 cars?
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 22):

So, if I understand you correctly - new drivers should never be allowed to drive or test F-1 cars?

That's correct, only people with prior F1 driving experience should be allowed in an F1 car.....oh hang on!   

Fred
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zckls04
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:49 pm

This is all terribly sad- one can only be happy these sort of injuries are mercifully rare in F1 these days.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 23):
That's correct, only people with prior F1 driving experience should be allowed in an F1 car.....oh hang on!   

Fred

There is an argument to be made that to be in F1 you need to have demonstrated some success in a lower formula, which Maria de Villota hasn't particularly. I think that's what kiwirob is driving at. I'm not sure I totally agree with that though- I think that teams should be able to test who they like; you never know who will turn out to be an unexpected talent. As a driver in F1 you pay your money and take your chances, quite literally, and you need to be prepared to accept the risk.
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ajd1992
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 21):
That would be a newby error, something an experienced driver would know about.

I can see your point but if they never drive an F1 car then they can't become experienced, It's like learning to drive a car for the first time - you can't be a good driver without practice.

If it was the anti-stall, then the car did exactly as it should. It's supposed to rev the engine but it relies on the driver pushing the neutral button or pulling the clutch in or failing that it relies on the driver to at least be aware of their surroundings and hit the brakes.

it was a horrible accident but I don't think we can discount the problem being with her. She may very well have just panicked and forgot to engage the clutch. We all do it when we first learn to drive (at least, us in the civilised world with manual boxes   )
 
rfields5421
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:22 pm

To a certain extent this is starting to sound like the Air France 447 discussion - is automation good or bad?

While automation, like anti-stall, can make it easier for a driver to concentrate on the key elements of the driving task, can it also make a driver who takes instinctive reactions to unusual situations a danger to himself or others.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 22):

So, if I understand you correctly - new drivers should never be allowed to drive or test F-1 cars?

She was never going to race in F1 so what was the point in testing an F1 car. Now her face is smashed up and she's lost an eye.
 
ajd1992
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RE: Good News For F1 Fans

Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 27):
She was never going to race in F1 so what was the point in testing an F1 car. Now her face is smashed up and she's lost an eye.

They were doing aerodynamic testing. The test wasn't for her, it was for the new parts for the upcoming races.

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