comorin
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Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:18 am

There will be a major update by CERN on the search for the Higgs Boson on July 4th. Stay tuned - exciting times for science groupies. This research, however, will have no impact on our lives for decades.


Meanwhile, great article and even greater comments by brilliant minds in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...ts?commentpage=4#start-of-comments

Urge you to read this before Chinese and Indian grad students take away your job!   

One of the jokes in the comments:

Atom 1: I think I lost an electron.
Atom 2: Are you sure?
Atom 1: I'm positive.

[Edited 2012-07-01 00:19:02]
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
Atom 1: I think I lost an electron.
Atom 2: Are you sure?
Atom 1: I'm positive.

Wow. I actually laughed at that. Out loud.

Perhaps a recalibration of sense of humor is required.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:42 am

Quoting comorin (Thread starter):
exciting times for science groupies.

I am a big time LHC groupie from when they started running it on Day 1. I hope the CERN scientists will come up with the announcement of some new important discovery - something they have been waiting for years.

Go LHC!!!

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einsteinboricua
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:42 pm

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. The Higgs Boson is the only thing everyone at our physics department ever talks about.
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Francoflier
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:00 pm

What power is the LHC running now? Wiki seems to mention 4TeV until year's end and then shutdown for a long refit before running a full throttle...

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 3):
The Higgs Boson is the only thing everyone at our physics department ever talks about.

Which brings the question: what will physicists talk about when the Higgs has finally been 'discovered'?
Is everybody on starting blocks to start new lines of research based on the confirmation of this theory?
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:25 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):
what will physicists talk about when the Higgs has finally been 'discovered'?

Or better yet, what if it remains elusive or simply does not exist? The professors back home were excited when Einstein's theory was not confirmed after the errors in the LHC, though later on it was discovered that some cables were the cause of the bad readings. Ergo, the theory still stands, but back then, everyone was head over heels thinking about what could have possibly gone wrong.
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
I am a big time LHC groupie from when they started running it on Day 1. I hope the CERN scientists will come up with the announcement of some new important discovery - something they have been waiting for years.

Go LHC!!!

The Large Hadron Rap

Anyone else out there ever read about the Large Hadron Collider and misread the middle word?
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NoWorries
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):
Which brings the question: what will physicists talk about when the Higgs has finally been 'discovered'?
Is everybody on starting blocks to start new lines of research based on the confirmation of this theory?

There are more things to look at.
There's a belief that some form of super symmetry (SUSY) exists -- basically every fermion (e.g. electron) has a partner boson and vice versa -- the difference being only their spin (1 vs. 1/2). It's possible LHC might find something here.
Another experiment will involve colliding heaving nuclei in the hope of producing some sort of quark/gluon plasma -- as of today, no one has ever observed a "naked" quark -- they're always bound up in other particles such as protons or neutrons.
 
bhill
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:25 pm

Wait for it......

BAZINGA!!!!
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting bhill (Reply 8):
Wait for it......

There are already some hints on what the CERN scientists announcement will be.
On the other side, there is Fermilab with the Tevatron:

Higgs Boson: Physicists See Best Proof Yet of 'The God Particle'

The announcement today, based on experiments at the Department of Energy's Fermilab near Chicago and other institutions, is not the final word, but it's very close. And it comes just before a major meeting this week in Australia, where more findings will be announced from the giant underground particle accelerator at CERN, the great physics lab in the Alps on the French-Swiss border.

http://news.yahoo.com/higgs-boson-ph...-god-155311961--abc-news-tech.html

why the Higgs boson:
Physicists say the Higgs boson would help explain why we, and the rest of the universe, exist.


  
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:32 pm

24 hours to the CERN press conference...
This WSJ article with videos makes a good read on the subject:

Physicists Nearer to a Key Clue to Universe

U.S. scientists released fresh data bolstering the case for the existence of the Higgs boson, a long-sought particle crucial to scientists' current understanding of how the universe is built.

The data, from the U.S. Department of Energy's Tevatron collider near Chicago, isn't enough on its own to confirm the existence of the Higgs particle. However, experimental results to be announced by European physicists on Wednesday will provide a stronger signal of where the Higgs is likely to be hiding.

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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:21 pm

LHC might be able to give some kind of indication if string theory is indeed the underlying reality. Down at a very small scale, but presence of strings could be inferred. If you believe that is. Whenenver I see or hear Brian Green, however, I always get the impression that he's a used car salesman.
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:15 am

Confirmed: CERN discovers new particle likely to be the Higgs boson

Breaking News

CERN discovers new particle

Scientist at CERN have discovered a new subatomic particle, which may well be the elusive Higgs boson, also known as “the God particle”.

­"I can confirm that a particle has been discovered that is consistent with the Higgs boson theory," said John Womersley, chief executive of the UK's Science & Technology Facilities Council.

The result is still preliminary, but “it's very strong and very solid,” according to Joe Incandela, spokesman for one of the two teams hunting for the Higgs particle.

The discovery, which is due to a great extent to the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) team, is the strongest-yet in favor of the particle’s existence.

The Higgs boson is the last subatomic elemental particle predicted by the Standard Model to be discovered experimentally.

http://www.rt.com/news/cern-conference-higgs-boson-378/

           
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):

To be technical, they discovered a boson, but now they have to confirm whether it's the one Higgs theorized or whether it's another boson. What they did find was that the boson was consistent with the Higgs Boson, but they have to make sure that every single detail matches.

Nevertheless, a great discovery and a leap in science as we know it. For all intents and purposes, the Standard Model is closer than ever to being fact as opposed to a theory (dark energy and dark matter are still a subject of debate).
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 11):
Whenenver I see or hear Brian Green, however, I always get the impression that he's a used car salesman.


He's definitely an evangelizer for String theory, or M-theory, or whatever the theory's name du jour happens to be.

I've never looked at String theory very closely, but it was always my impression that the vibration of the strings rather than a Higgs field interaction was responsible for the mass of fundamental particles. I wonder how "they" reconcile that with the apparent discovery of the Higgs boson, and therefore the Higgs field interaction.
 
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:28 pm

Professor Higgs says he has no idea what "his" boson is about.

Higgs boson: What's it for? I have no idea, says Prof
Professor Peter Higgs admits he has "no idea" what the discovery of the Higgs boson will mean in practical terms.

The British physicist whose theories led to the discovery of the Higgs boson has admitted he has “no idea” what practical applications it could have.

Prof Peter Higgs said the so-called ‘God particle’, which is the building block of the universe, only has a lifespan of a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a millionth of a second.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/l...-for-I-have-no-idea-says-Prof.html

 
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:25 am

Almost everything you wanted to know about the Higgs boson and even more.

Live Q&A: Higgs found, so what’s next?

Physicists working on the Large Hadron Collider at CERN have finally found the Higgs boson — the particle thought to be behind the mass of all the others. But there is still much work to be done to pin down the precise nature of the new particle. Join us at 2 p.m. BST on 5 July for a live Q&A with three CERN scientists, Matt Strassler, Seth Zenz and Zach Marshall, to find out what we still don’t know about the Higgs.

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/07...-qa-higgs-found-so-whats-next.html

  
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 3):
The Higgs Boson is the only thing everyone at our physics department ever talks about.

Hmm, my physics profs used to talk about cars and girls and booze....

In todays world, feminists would have no room for one in particular, he was a grade A pervert.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he would make or accept an offer for sex for grades.
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 4):
Which brings the question: what will physicists talk about when the Higgs has finally been 'discovered'?
Quoting NoWorries (Reply 14):
I've never looked at String theory very closely, but it was always my impression that the vibration of the strings rather than a Higgs field interaction was responsible for the mass of fundamental particles. I wonder how "they" reconcile that with the apparent discovery of the Higgs boson, and therefore the Higgs field interaction.

As I understand it (and I'm a biologist and physician, not a physicist by a long shot), mass is both a function of a particle, but also a function of the Higgs field in which that particle is imbedded. Mass is the result of the interaction between the particle and the Higgs field. There are two phenomena associated with mass. 1) Gravity, in which all mass creates an attractive force that acts on any and all other massive particles. 2) Inertia, in which any massive particle will resist any acceleration. The Higgs field is responsible for (2).

What I wonder is whether we might figure out a way to manipulate the Higgs field. If we could, that might give us some very startling technologies.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Hmm, my physics profs used to talk about cars and girls and booze....

Because they're physicists and all they can do is talk about it?   

Actually, I hung out with a few physics majors and grad students when I was in college and they were a pretty rowdy bunch. I also heard from one grad student (who I had a crush on; *le sigh*) that when you're in a bar and a girl asks what you do, "Particle physicist" is an unusual enough answer that they tend to be intrigued.
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Because they're physicists and all they can do is talk about it?

Was just responding to

Quote:

The Higgs Boson is the only thing everyone at our physics department ever talks about.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Actually, I hung out with a few physics majors and grad students when I was in college and they were a pretty rowdy bunch.

The physics students I knew fell into the two classic camps, the experimental ones who were quite down to earth, and the theoretical ones who spent hours blathering on about things that they themselves could not convince themselves were not make believe. If I had to use a word to describe them, I'd use the word nerdy, even more so than the computer scientists.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
when you're in a bar and a girl asks what you do, "Particle physicist" is an unusual enough answer that they tend to be intrigued.

Hmm, I imagine they might wonder if your physical apparatus isn't particularly small?
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
The physics students I knew fell into the two classic camps, the experimental ones who were quite down to earth, and the theoretical ones who spent hours blathering on about things that they themselves could not convince themselves were not make believe. If I had to use a word to describe them, I'd use the word nerdy, even more so than the computer scientists.

It's true. There's a fine line between theoretical physics and pure math.

Side rant: I hate it when physicists say: "Oh, we don't really use math." Oh, of course not. All those integral symbols and equations are just prose, right?
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NoWorries
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RE: Physicists Await Cern Higgs Briefing On July 4

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
As I understand it (and I'm a biologist and physician, not a physicist by a long shot), mass is both a function of a particle, but also a function of the Higgs field in which that particle is imbedded. Mass is the result of the interaction between the particle and the Higgs field.

It's a bit trickier than that -- mass and energy are equivalent, anything with energy has mass equivalence; it may also have a rest-mass energy equivalence which is due to its interaction with the Higss field. For contrast, consider an electron and a photon. The electron has energy (and mass equivalence) relative to some observer due to its energy of motion and also has a fixed component of rest mass energy-equivalence due to its interaction with the Higss field. A photon, on the other hand, does not interact with the Higss field (it has no rest mass) but it does have mass-equivalent energy due to its motion (which is always c for all observers).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
There are two phenomena associated with mass. 1) Gravity, in which all mass creates an attractive force that acts on any and all other massive particles. 2) Inertia, in which any massive particle will resist any acceleration. The Higgs field is responsible for (2).

Yes, on point 1, mass and energy (they are equivalent) warp space-time under general relativity which creates the illusion of an attractive force (if we accept Einstein's theory of general relativity.) This warping is due to both the rest-mass energy equivalence (which is Higgs-induced) as well as the kinetic energy of the motion of the mass itself. On point 2, inertia isn't really understood all that well, even today, but it is the result of the total mass-equivalence of the system (both Higss-induced rest mass) as well as the kinetic energy of motion.

What I was wondering about was whether there is a Higgs Boson in String theory -- is there one? If not, then what does the discovery of Higgs mean for String theory?

[Edited 2012-07-10 19:10:28]

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