kpitrrat
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:07 am

Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:12 pm

I didn't see a thread here, unless one was posted while I am writing this, feel free to housekeep this thread if necessary.

Well heres more ammo for this discussion. I have to say I tried to believe that he did not know about these acts before 2001, now its a shame that a guy like that could allow such things to go on. His legacy was already Hall of Fame before he first knew about Sanduskys actions. He knew about it and dropped the ball at the expense of many young boys safety. Shame on you JoePa. If he were still alive I think he should should be under investigation as well. Take the statue down, and everyone else including Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and whoever tried to cover this up should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (I believed this before the report, simply solidifies it.)

In addition, all bonuses, pensions, etc should be sent back to the university or better yet send it to an abuse organization so it can be put to good use.

What should the NCAA do? If anything?

As far as the athletics of the university I still believe that it makes no sense punishing the team with a death sentence.

I believe it was Bomani Jones on Around the Horn made the comparison of the football program to a car. While it is a useful tool and having one can be a great thing, getting behind the wheel drunk can turn that car into a weapon. What Paterno, Sandusky, and the others involved did was turn a great football program into a dangerous weapon while drunk with power. By not reporting Sandusky, and furthermore, allowing him to stay around the program (literaly giving him the keys to the facilities) they drove this great thing into the ground and hurt many many people.

As I have said before, obviously these young men are the true victims and what was done to them is horrendous. Still, this report makes it clear that these men also used the University and football program at the fans and alumni's expense.

Where will this go from here, hopefully alot of years of incarceration.


Heres an article from CNN but there are obvously numerous reports online...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/12/us/pen...ania-penn-state-paterno/index.html

And the Freeh Report itself...

http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf

[Edited 2012-07-12 16:14:43]
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
What should the NCAA do? If anything?

I see a number of sanctions going against their football team. The most extreme case would be a huge ethics investigation by the NCAA and the program being shut down....temporarily or for good.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
As I have said before, obviously these young men are the true victims and what was done to them is horrendous. Still, this report makes it clear that these men also used the University and football program at the fans and alumni's expense.

I believe that Penn State should be 100% responsible now for these victims' welfare. If you cover something up, you must take the fall.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
Where will this go from here, hopefully alot of years of incarceration.

Well we will see. Watching ESPN now and they're saying "it's the most horrible scandal to happen to sports in general."
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:38 pm

I'm, unfortunately, not the least bit surprised here. As soon as this story broke I felt that there was no way Joe Paterno was not involved with this. Large program head coaches have more sway than they should at large universities, which IMHO should be ZERO off the field, but it's all about the money honey. It's disgusting.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
What should the NCAA do? If anything?

Sadly, until our culture stops deifying athletes just because they can throw a ball, the potential for something like this to happen again is high. The NCAA isn't really to blame here. WE are to blame here by putting such importance on a game and idolizing its participants. It is DISGUSTING to me that Joe Paterno and many other top coaches have/had salaries over twenty times what the average teacher gets paid. Who has a bigger impact on our future? Hint, it wasn't the egotistical louse who coordinated a touchdown. The only thing, I think, the NCAA can do here is to further regulate athletic fund-raising by completely taking the incentives away, and maybe, just maybe, with incentives reduced people may actually start caring again about things like education.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
As far as the athletics of the university I still believe that it makes no sense punishing the team with a death sentence.

There was an editorial in the Chicago Sun Times this morning discussing exactly that. The author thinks the school should be punished with no football games, and subsequent loss of revenue for at least two years. I am inclined to agree. The university put the well-being of over a dozen children at stake for a stupid game. Let them reevaluate their priorities, though at this point I don't think Penn State is even going to breathe in the wrong direction. I imagine other schools are taking a very hard look at any skeletons they may have. We may have some interesting dismissals and personnel shakeups.

[Edited 2012-07-12 17:37:49]
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
. I have to say I tried to believe that he did not know about these acts before 2001, now its a shame that a guy like that could allow such things to go on.

He's a head football coach at a major program and by some accounts the most powerful man in the state. Paterno knew everything. Most coaches do, they're control freaks who do things their way with their guys.

And Miami taking money from a scam artist was a shame. This is something else.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
His legacy was already Hall of Fame before he first knew about Sanduskys actions

...and now it's not.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
If he were still alive I think he should should be under investigation as well

If he were still alive he would be under arrest now.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
What should the NCAA do?

Death penalty, now. No competition for four years. Everybody needs a timeout. There needs to be a systematic investigation and cleanup of everyone involved with the program and those who need to face charges should face charges. The program needs to go back to square one. Wipe out the culture of pride and prestige that allowed an environment that placed football over child molestation.

Also, there needs to be a Saddam-style statue toppling.
Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
As far as the athletics of the university I still believe that it makes no sense punishing the team with a death sentence.

Let them transfer if they want to, assuming they come out clean in the investigation.

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
Still, this report makes it clear that these men also used the University and football program at the fans and alumni's expense.

The fans and alumni are partially at fault for all of this for putting the program above suspicion while creating and participating in an environment that would allow this to happen.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
Well we will see. Watching ESPN now and they're saying "it's the most horrible scandal to happen to sports in general."

...even ESPN is paying attention now, that's how big this is. Even they can't ignore it any longer.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 2):

I'm, unfortunately, not the least bit surprised here.

   If you paid attention and didn't bury your head in the sand you pretty much knew this was coming.

[Edited 2012-07-12 17:37:26]
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:37 am

I don't think the football team should be given the death penalty, I think that all of their teams should be given it. If the AD was lying and covering up in regards to Sandusky, what else has he lied about and covered up involving other athletic programs at Penn State? While it would punish athletes who had nothing to do with this, the actions of those who are running the athletic program as well as the coach of the main athletic program to generates the revenue that funds the entire gamut of teams there should result in a complete housecleaning from top to bottom in the Athletic Department.

To be honest, I highly doubt the NCAA would shut down the athletic teams of Penn State because of one thing and one thing only, $$$.
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:53 am

It's just stupid to punish students already involved in whatever programs. They did nothing but would be severely punished, some changed for life. There is no coherent argument for that. If you want to punish the university, take all sports revenues for a few years.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting srbmod (Reply 4):
To be honest, I highly doubt the NCAA would shut down the athletic teams of Penn State because of one thing and one thing only, $$$.

That is true right there. Lets say this was a different school, probably one that wasn't based off Football, we would probably see the axe on that program.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:53 am

Of course Paterno knew. The only people who didn't think Paterno knew were fans, students, or alums of Penn State. He knew probably even before '98, when he was "first" clued into these charges as alleged by the Freeh Report. Instead of calling the authorities and having to answer questions then, maybe getting a hard time from the media, these schmucks decided to throw another batch of children into Sandusky's arms. Paterno has a legacy, but it will be that of Barry Bonds home run record -- one with a huge asterisk. Paterno was lucky because of the drooling idolatry in Happy Valley/Centre County, the fact is that he should've been charged and 'cuffed along with Spanier, Curley, and Schultz. Paterno got off easy because of death, and it's a shame. It would've been great to watch the reactions of those moron Penn State losers to see Paterno sentenced to jail or probation.

If the NCAA does not levy the death penalty (and I don't expect it will), it is an indictment against itself as the money-grubbing, PC kangaroo court it seems to be. This isn't paying a bunch of kids under the table to play for SMU. This is administrators, and the most powerful people at Penn State ignoring child molestation because they want more recruits, more donations, the best publicity possible.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:04 am

Don't punish the players. It's not their fault.

As for JoePa, You broke my heart.
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:11 am

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 7):
Of course Paterno knew. The only people who didn't think Paterno knew were fans, students, or alums of Penn State.

   Everyone knew that Paterno knew. It's just that some people refused to believe it.

If the NCAA comes down on them, it will probably cite "lack of institutional control" but that's not what this was at all. The institution had complete and total control and used it to orchestrate a blatant and persistent conspiracy to cover up Sandusky's actions.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 8):
Don't punish the players. It's not their fault.

They might be the only mostly innocent people there. They should leave the sinking ship now. Everyone else, however, must be punished.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Flighty
Posts: 7719
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:28 am

Louis Freeh doesn't have any credibility. He's just a ridiculous clown as far as I am concerned. Maybe Joe Paterno knew something, maybe not.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
They might be the only mostly innocent people there. They should leave the sinking ship now. Everyone else, however, must be punished.

Penn State should not have a football program anymore. The best way to honor these victims is to retire the program. It has _not_ been worth it.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12425
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:34 am

This report once again proves that the cover up is the worst crime. Like too many institutions in government, education, organizations, faith groups and businesses, serious crimes are committed and too many cover them up to protect their sorry asses, their incomes and their power.
I am also concerned what other scandals, what other bad things the officials at Penn State covered up, lie about, push people out for. Did officials at the school and the economically dependent community cover up with each other about criminal activities by sports players or schools/athletic officials. Have they covered up or reduced the charges as to violent crime, sexual assault and rape on and off campus as to students, athletes and academic persons. Of course these problems often occur at every college campus. You don't want the full truth to come out so not to scare off future and current students, alumni monies and with a state college like Penn State the state's funding, the big corporate and federal aid and research grant monies.

So what does Penn State - and all other college and as this involves sports, the NCAA do ?
First of all, everyone one at all such institutions must know the rules that any sexual assault to a child or adult is morally and legally wrong and cannot be tolerated. If they see something wrong, they are obligated and are to be protected to report it to the police for investigation.
Second, clearly we need to put administrators in a position that if they lie or cover up problems, they will be fired. We saw earlier this year a top level football coach at University of Arkansas fired for his attempted cover up of a motorcycle accident involving a woman he was having an affair with and not riding with a helmet. That should be a good example of what should be done with a scandal.
Third, major pay cuts and time/age limits for school officials, especially sports coaches, along with strong oversight by persons outside the schools to end their fiefdoms.
Fourth, as to the NCAA, they should call for all officials connected with the football program and Paterno to be fired, any former coaches only allowed in facilities under strict rules, no minors in sports facilities or with any school official without at least 2 adult around. I don't want a 'death penalty' as to the football program as would badly hurt the community.

In the end, many have to commit to real changes and an attitude of real honor and no cover-ups.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 8):
Don't punish the players. It's not their fault.

As for JoePa, You broke my heart.

Don't punish the current players, of course. Every Penn State scholarship football player should be granted a free scholarship transfer, without sanction, to any NCAA school which accepts them under commonly agreed academic guidelines. The bottom line is that the program needs to be shut down for a year or two.

Penn State is also starting a mens D-I hockey program soon. That should be cut off/delayed as well. Penn State shouldn't be able to start new ancillary new revenue streams in absence of football.

Will the latter happen? Probably not, but it should. At the very least Penn State football needs to be shut down for a year or two.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:04 am

I do not normally post in this forum, but I think I might as well chime in on some of my thoughts on the matter.

I'm am alumni of Penn State, spend 5 years at the school and in the State College community. I even know, to some extent, and have had interactions with some of the key individuals in this case.

I'm not surprised by the insular and closed culture. It existed at every layer of power in the Penn State, State College and Centre County organizations. It is a relatively small community, and there were many people who relished in the power, fame, and fortune that was all things Penn State. Far too many people latched on to this power train. You can draw connections from Penn State football and the growth of the university to big business issues like getting I-99 built through Central PA, getting big box stores like Target, Home Depot in State College, builders, retirement communities, restaurants, etc. all latching on to and to some degree exploiting the Penn State brand.

This is big money, big business, big donations, and big-name power hungery people that have latched on and exploited the Penn State brand to their personal benefit. Not surprised the university administration would be under pressure to keep these issues under wraps.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):

This report once again proves that the cover up is the worst crime. Like too many institutions in government, education, organizations, faith groups and businesses, serious crimes are committed and too many cover them up to protect their sorry asses, their incomes and their power.

Agreed. We've seen this in multiple cases, Penn State is just one of many organizations that have been inflicted with this type of cover-up. The Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, Enron, Anderson, City of Detroit, far too many politicians to count, numerous other companies.

Too often the cover-up is worst that acknowledging and correcting the wrong-doings at first.

Part of this is human nature, part of it is the culture within hierarchical organizations and feared reprocussions.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
I am also concerned what other scandals, what other bad things the officials at Penn State covered up, lie about, push people out for. Did officials at the school and the economically dependent community cover up with each other about criminal activities by sports players or schools/athletic officials. Have they covered up or reduced the charges as to violent crime, sexual assault and rape on and off campus as to students, athletes and academic persons. Of course these problems often occur at every college campus. You don't want the full truth to come out so not to scare off future and current students, alumni monies and with a state college like Penn State the state's funding, the big corporate and federal aid and research grant monies.
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
First of all, everyone one at all such institutions must know the rules that any sexual assault to a child or adult is morally and legally wrong and cannot be tolerated. If they see something wrong, they are obligated and are to be protected to report it to the police for investigation.

I think everyone has learned that lesson now.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Fourth, as to the NCAA, they should call for all officials connected with the football program and Paterno to be fired, any former coaches only allowed in facilities under strict rules, no minors in sports facilities or with any school official without at least 2 adult around. I don't want a 'death penalty' as to the football program as would badly hurt the community.

Almost everyone from the former program is now gone. I think there maybe two assistants left, but they cleaned house at PSU with the new coach and there were others in the athletic department that were told to leave.

Not sure what else PSU could do, since they've cleaned the ranks of everyone involved in the Administration and Athletic department that appears to have any knowledge of this case. That being said, I'm pretty sure there are others in the local and state government who have some degree of blame for not taking action years ago. The Penn State Board of Trustees and Second Mile administration also have some blame to share.


That being said, we now all have hindsight and more facts than anyone appears to have known at the time. We are also taking about 1998 and 2001, society has come a long way since they and identifying and reporting abuse situations. I also believe at first, after reading the report that this case was not as black and white as we now know in hindsight.

At this point it has become the blame game. Let the justice system take care of those who are still alive. At some point we need to move past the blame and be sure things are fixed for the future.

Penn State is a large institution that has done a lot of good for a lot of people. The hundreds of thousands of alumni and faculity have gone on to do good things with their lives. I had 5 incredible years at Penn State that were much, much more than football (I also was there during some of the worst seasons ever). I have incredible live-long friends, memories, and got an excellent education while I was there. It is tough to see my alma mater go through this mess, but I put it in perspective that it really only involved a few individuals that do not represent the rest of us.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:31 am

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 12):
Penn State is also starting a mens D-I hockey program soon. That should be cut off/delayed as well. Penn State shouldn't be able to start new ancillary new revenue streams in absence of football.

This is another example of what is wrong with college athletics.

The Penn State D-I hockey program is all because some absurdly rich alumni donated $80M to the university to build a hockey arena and essentially fund his own hockey team. Penn State has traditionally had one of the better club hockey teams. However, I can think of a lot of ways for the better good of society to spend $80M than to build a monument (to the donor) and for a college hockey team. How about at least donating to a degree program, or scholarship for that matter?

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 12):
Don't punish the current players, of course. Every Penn State scholarship football player should be granted a free scholarship transfer, without sanction, to any NCAA school which accepts them under commonly agreed academic guidelines. The bottom line is that the program needs to be shut down for a year or two.

This certainly is a unique situation. I believe now that Penn State will likely sanction itself to some degree it hopes of appeasing the NCAA.

The NCAA will find itself in a unique situation. On one hand, this situation is being handled by the criminal justice system and the actors involved are all removed from their positions in the university, guilty, facing charges, or dead. Those individuals involved are being punished and/or have been convicted in the court of public opinion.
On the other hand, the NCAA almost has to set some sort of prescedent or it looks silly in less minor situations of wrong-doings. A lot of the issues at heart is all of the money that college athletics produces and the NCAA really is aware of this and enables it.

I think Penn State will likely impose some type of sanctions on itself, like taking all TV and bowl revenue over a period of time to charity. I think they'll try to look like they did something to make the NCAA happy.

I think the death penalty would do good in the sense of just giving a "time-out" to let things settle down. However I think that unfairly penalizes a lot of people that have absoletely nothing to do with this whole issue.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
...even ESPN is paying attention now, that's how big this is. Even they can't ignore it any longer.

I may be mistaken, but I thought ESPN broke the story in the first place.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

Death penalty, now. No competition for four years. Everybody needs a timeout. There needs to be a systematic investigation and cleanup of everyone involved with the program and those who need to face charges should face charges. The program needs to go back to square one. Wipe out the culture of pride and prestige that allowed an environment that placed football over child molestation.

100% correct.
Yes, it's punitive. It should be. Yes, football student-athletes will be impacted. Too late, they are part of that culture. Transfer already if it's that important. If not transfering, Penn State should completely honor the scholarships for their duration, a further financial punishment.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 5):
It's just stupid to punish students already involved in whatever programs. They did nothing but would be severely punished, some changed for life. There is no coherent argument for that. If you want to punish the university, take all sports revenues for a few years.

It's too late. The power of the program appealed to these players, the aura of the coach and his staff. They are part of that same culture. They need to be yanked out of it. As said, they can transfer -- if they are truly talented and have a future, they will be picked up elsewhere. If not... there are dozens of Division III colleges within a 200 mile radius where they could play for the love of the game... and pick up an education.

I say all this as a big college football fan. But that pales in importance.

-Rampart
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
I am also concerned what other scandals, what other bad things the officials at Penn State covered up, lie about, push people out for

Considering the web of financial dealings between the people involved, including Paterno, it wouldn't surprise me to see a RICO indictment handed down as well eventually.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
I don't want a 'death penalty' as to the football program as would badly hurt the community.

The community is partly at fault for enabling this and putting the football program on a high enough pedestal to allow the cover up to go on.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
I'm not surprised by the insular and closed culture. It existed at every layer of power in the Penn State, State College and Centre County organizations. It is a relatively small community, and there were many people who relished in the power, fame, and fortune that was all things Penn State. Far too many people latched on to this power train.

   I don't recall the details, but I have heard that Paterno was openly opposed to expanding State College's airport, precisely to maintain the insular culture where such malfeasance could go unnoticed.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 15):
I may be mistaken, but I thought ESPN broke the story in the first place.

The Grand Jury stated working on this in 2009 or 2010. It was actually the Harrisburg Patriot-News that broke the story (that went under the radar) back in March 2011. No one really picked-up on it then. The story didn't really break until November 2011 when the grand jury finding were released.

That being said, I heard comments about Sandusky about 10 years ago along the lines of "he's a weirdo...." although I honestly can't remember the exact statements some players told me about the guy (too much Yuengling obviously).

Heck, I remember when Sandusky bought my friends and I a round of drinks once. I thought it was pretty cool and he seemed like a nice guy on the few instances I met him.

Quoting rampart (Reply 15):
It's too late. The power of the program appealed to these players, the aura of the coach and his staff. They are part of that same culture. They need to be yanked out of it. As said, they can transfer -- if they are truly talented and have a future, they will be picked up elsewhere. If not... there are dozens of Division III colleges within a 200 mile radius where they could play for the love of the game... and pick up an education.

I say all this as a big college football fan. But that pales in importance.

This same culture can be found at about ~50 other majort D-I unversities too.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Considering the web of financial dealings between the people involved, including Paterno, it wouldn't surprise me to see a RICO indictment handed down as well eventually.

Oh there are a lot of financial connections between people involved. Who were the big-name donors to 2nd Mile? What PSU administrators had connections to some of the big-name projects in the community?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
I don't recall the details, but I have heard that Paterno was openly opposed to expanding State College's airport, precisely to maintain the insular culture where such malfeasance could go unnoticed.

Ok, I worked at the airport for 3 years there, I never heard this story/rumor. This one sounds like an urban legend to me.
The did lengthen the runway at one point to be able to land charter aircraft. There were talks about building a new passenger terminal but all of that was tabled in the post-9/11 era when traffic declined and then SCE/UNV saw US drop PIT-SCE, then DL drop CVG-SCE.

Honestly, most of the problems here really stem of the power of the institution, not necessarily any one person in totality be it Paterno, Spainer, etc.
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
Honestly, most of the problems here really stem of the power of the institution, not necessarily any one person in totality be it Paterno, Spainer, etc.

And why didn't former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar never press charges back in 1998? We will never know as Gricar went missing in 2005 and is now presumed dead (was declared dead by a court in 2011). And what exactly did Pennsylvania Attorney General (and now the Governor) Corbett know, and what did he or didn't the Governor do to help or hinder the investigation, as he was VERY connected to the politicians in Centre County? There is MUCH more to this story, in my opinion.......

Source: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...former_centre_county_da_ray_g.html

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sp...rapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

[Edited 2012-07-12 22:15:27]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
It was actually the Harrisburg Patriot-News that broke the story (that went under the radar) back in March 2011. No one really picked-up on it then.

Thanks, that's right, I recall hearing that now that you remind me. (Obviously mentioned in a later news report, I don't follow the Patriot-News.)

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
This same culture can be found at about ~50 other majort D-I unversities too.

I agree. Probably more, and include basketball and hockey. I would hope that the microscope of public sentiment is causing administrators and athletic directors everywhere to walk on egg shells and truly scrutinize the operations. Another outcome might be even stronger silencing and cover up of additional abuses elsewhere. And for that, perhaps NCAA ought to enact a zero-tolerance, death penalty rule for ANYONE engaged in this abusive criminal behavior. A big enough disincentive would help.

Some of the loudest criticism is coming from partisans of those other large D-1 partisans, which I figure is somewhat clouded by rivarly. Where the outrage should be loudest is the non-athlete students, alumni, people who work for Penn State. It's their alma mater or workplace that has been compromised.

-Rampart
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:50 pm

Honestly, I am not surprised at all. As some have said, it is easy to see that the most powerful person at Penn State was not the President or A.D, but Joe Paterno. While on paper there might be an organizational structure, if Joe P. wanted something done, it would get done.

What I found interesting is that it seems like the senior leadership knew this. I read that the former VP for student affairs was upset with the President and AD because she could not dicipline players in accordance with university policy, Joe wanted to handle it. When she brought it up, they acknowledged it..but subsequently changed university policy and she was asked to resign.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
This is another example of what is wrong with college athletics.

The Penn State D-I hockey program is all because some absurdly rich alumni donated $80M to the university to build a hockey arena and essentially fund his own hockey team. Penn State has traditionally had one of the better club hockey teams. However, I can think of a lot of ways for the better good of society to spend $80M than to build a monument (to the donor) and for a college hockey team. How about at least donating to a degree program, or scholarship for that matter?

It was, I think, part that, but also the Big Ten has been wanting to start a hockey program for the last couple years. The only problem was that the only big Ten Members with hockey programs are: Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Minnesota. That falls 1 short of the required NCAA requirement for a league tournament. So the CCHA will be dissolved after this season with the B1G teams moving to the new league and the rest of the CCHA teams moving to various conferences.

But, I think what this whole issue has taught many is that power should not be so concentrated within big time athletics.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:13 pm

With respect to the issue of students being punished, I think it's unfortunate but such is life. Life is not fair. Things don't always go your way, and as the saying goes "One bad apple can ruin an entire bunch." Look at airport security, a few loony toons have negatively impacted the flying experience for billions. As I was reading many of the articles and opinions related to what should happen to Penn State's athletic program, I kept thinking that Richard Nixon's Presidency was brought down by covering up something far less sinister, far less damaging, and ultimately inconsequential. Against the law as it may be, nobody was actually hurt by his actions against George McGovern, not even McGovern's Campaign, which was already in the toilet. That is most decidedly not the case here. The environment that allowed this to happen needs to be changed.
Things happen that shouldn't happen -- ask the dozen (or likely more, pedophiles don't magically start their work in their 40's...and there are probably many who have still kept silent) or so young boys who will never forget this and have to live the rest of their lives knowing that the whole world knows what happened to them. SOMEBODY has to be an example to others, and it should start now. Not when it happens again, but now. Let it be a lesson to the athletes as well as the fans and consumers not to get so caught up in something like a game that such a terrible, terrible thing can be allowed to happen. Reign in accountability. I will add that while athletic scholarships indeed help some students, most NCAA athletes are not on scholarship, and a great deal of them have poor academic performance that is tolerated simply due to their talents. Most of them do nothing in athletics after their college years. I say wipe the slate clean.

[Edited 2012-07-13 15:50:57]
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):

I think the death penalty would do good in the sense of just giving a "time-out" to let things settle down. However I think that unfairly penalizes a lot of people that have absoletely nothing to do with this whole issue.

It's that very argument that allowed Jerry Sandusky to keep molesting kids. The "We don't want to bring untoward attention to our university or face NCAA sanctions" is the problem. How very Penn State of you. Minimize the issue, and try to duck rightly deserved punishment. Fortunately, for you Penn State alum/fan, the NCAA is completely worthless as an organization and is all about money. You'll probably get the same punishment that a school gets for an agent giving a player some cash -- no bowls for X number of years and a loss of a few scholarships. Big whoop. It still allows Penn State to rebound very easily. My hope is that the NCAA renders the football program at Penn State worthless for 20 years as they did SMU.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 22):

It's that very argument that allowed Jerry Sandusky to keep molesting kids. The "We don't want to bring untoward attention to our university or face NCAA sanctions" is the problem. How very Penn State of you. Minimize the issue, and try to duck rightly deserved punishment. Fortunately, for you Penn State alum/fan, the NCAA is completely worthless as an organization and is all about money.

Thanks for trying to have a civil discussion.

I am not at fault. I am not getting punished. Way to go ahead and make some gross generalizations about me.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:50 pm

Just some passing thoughts I have had on this topic------

While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

Another thought since all this went down is I would think the victims would be pretty sick and tired of all the spotlight on the players and not so much spotlight on the victims. I think it is a lot more important that the victims be recognized and taken care of. The big-business university is well insured. Let it fend for itself.

Older men having their way with younger men has been going on since the dawn of man. Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it.
Anybody who attended a military school knows it goes on----on the "down-low" of course. Or anywhere else there is a large concentration of men.
For instance, nobody likes to be reminded of it------ or think about such things-----but what did our fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. do out on those islands in the Pacific during the WWII years? Thousands of men (mostly in their late teens and twentys) and no women to speak of. Come on. There was all kinds of stuff on the down-low going on. I would imagine most of the participants would become rather vociferous homophobes on their return to "normal life" back home after the war.

Anyway, again, I certainly don't condone what went on at Penn State, and if my kid had been a victim I'm sure I would flip!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

You cannot be serious? An adolescent old boy...who has little concept of sex, it's meaning, or it's consequences...vs a 200lb predatory man...does it really matter if they objected because they would be powerless to stop it.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Older men having their way with younger men has been going on since the dawn of man.

So has poverty, war, famine, and murder. Does that make it acceptable behavior?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it.

I am at a loss for words.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
For instance, nobody likes to be reminded of it------ or think about such things-----but what did our fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. do out on those islands in the Pacific during the WWII years? Thousands of men (mostly in their late teens and twentys) and no women to speak of. Come on. There was all kinds of stuff on the down-low going on. I would imagine most of the participants would become rather vociferous homophobes on their return to "normal life" back home after the war.

You seem to be confusing homophobia and consensual homosexual sex with the raping of what is probably dozens of children. Those MEN had a choice...
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

They were underage, so it doesn't matter.

And in other news the Paterno family will launch their own investigation since they don't like the truth. I imagine it will be performed by the same investigators who are helping OJ find the real killer.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

Utterly irrelevant when the victims were 10 and 12 year old boys.

Here's a good article from one of ESPN's columnists: The sins of the father:

Quote:
What a fool I was.

In 1986, I spent a week in State College, Pa., researching a 10-page Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year piece on Joe Paterno.

It was supposed to be a secret, but one night the phone in my hotel room rang. It was a Penn State professor, calling out of the blue.

"Are you here to take part in hagiography?" he said.

"What's hagiography?" I asked.

"The study of saints," he said. "You're going to be just like the rest, aren't you? You're going to make Paterno out to be a saint. You don't know him. He'll do anything to win. What you media are doing is dangerous."

Jealous egghead, I figured.

What an idiot I was.
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):

Just some passing thoughts I have had on this topic------

While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

Another thought since all this went down is I would think the victims would be pretty sick and tired of all the spotlight on the players and not so much spotlight on the victims. I think it is a lot more important that the victims be recognized and taken care of. The big-business university is well insured. Let it fend for itself.

Older men having their way with younger men has been going on since the dawn of man. Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it.
Anybody who attended a military school knows it goes on----on the "down-low" of course. Or anywhere else there is a large concentration of men.
For instance, nobody likes to be reminded of it------ or think about such things-----but what did our fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, etc. do out on those islands in the Pacific during the WWII years? Thousands of men (mostly in their late teens and twentys) and no women to speak of. Come on. There was all kinds of stuff on the down-low going on. I would imagine most of the participants would become rather vociferous homophobes on their return to "normal life" back home after the war.

Anyway, again, I certainly don't condone what went on at Penn State, and if my kid had been a victim I'm sure I would flip!

As victim myself, I find this post utterly despicable. In several ways.
 
slider
Posts: 6814
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Death penalty, now.

Absolutely. Terminate with extreme prejudice. SMU got spanked from prominence and has never recovered for doing FAR less.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 10):
Maybe Joe Paterno knew something, maybe not.

Do you hear the words coming from your keyboard? paterno ABSOLUTELY knew....this isn't even subject to debate anymore that he knew. It's been proven he knew. Take some time and read the coverage, read the report, read the original grand jury testimony. Paterno was up to his ears in this, as were everyone involved in the program and most key university officials.

But JoePa got off easy by actually kicking the bucket before he could go to jail. The real shithead here in Graham Spanier.

http://deadspin.com/5925539/the-ten-...one-charged?tag=penn-state-scandal

This just shows the absolute level of corruption of the NCAA overall when a dude like Spanier can circumvent all forms of institutional control both at PSU and in his NCAA role and still sound holier than thou about it. Moreso than even McQueary, this turd deserves a just comeuppance. In the prison showers.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?


  

10 and 12 year old children, really? I honestly can't believe someone would think that these kids were actually at fault because they did not try to stop it. They were abused by an authority figure, plain and simple.

These kids were showered with gifts from a "fatherly" figure and then taken advantage of. How were they going to object. Not only were they outweighed by at least 100 lbs, but anyone associated with Penn State football was considered a saint on campus and could never do wrong.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

I was going to suggest deletion of this post, and I didn't think it possible that anyone, anyone legal at any rate, actually believed this kind of logic any more. It's worth keeping up, however, so everyone can see how utterly tragic and wrong some thoughts can be, even in our modern times. Even if you don't condone it, to even find an excuse for it is beyond comprehension. A rape defendent would love that sort of opinion on a jury, however.

-Rampart
 
us330
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting kpitrrat (Thread starter):
As far as the athletics of the university I still believe that it makes no sense punishing the team with a death sentence.

Disagree. This program deserves the death penalty. If the NCAA gave the death penalty to SMU for paying players and allowing boosters to reward them with all sorts of extravagant gifts (which only violated NCAA rules, not state or federal law), then not giving Penn State the death penalty for an offense many times the magnitude of what went on at SMU would demonstrate a remarkable amount of hypocrisy and inconsistency within the NCAA.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Death penalty, now. No competition for four years. Everybody needs a timeout. There needs to be a systematic investigation and cleanup of everyone involved with the program and those who need to face charges should face charges. The program needs to go back to square one. Wipe out the culture of pride and prestige that allowed an environment that placed football over child molestation.

Yep.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 5):
It's just stupid to punish students already involved in whatever programs.

That's why you allow the students and current athletes a free transfer. That's what they did with SMU (with the athletes that didn't break NCAA rules).
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 26):
so it doesn't matte
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 27):
tterly irrelevant when the victims were 10 and 12 year old boys.

Yes, I do get it.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
utterly despicable. In several ways.

Not meant to be despicable. Just meant to cause thought in a different direction.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 30):
these kids were actually at fault because they did not try to stop it. They were abused by an authority figure, plain a

At no point am I trying to fault the victims, so I don't know where you got that from.

I do not believe, however, that all of the victims were minors. It may not be part of the investigation but I believe there is much more to this story that will come out over time. Very sad. Many lives ruined.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
BMI727
Posts: 11123
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
Just meant to cause thought in a different direction.

The direction that seeks to justify molestation?

That sort of thought you expressed in your previous post is part of why this was hidden for so long and why victims were so reluctant to come forward. Your victim blaming is part of what enables pedophiles to do what they do and get away with it.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
I do not believe, however, that all of the victims were minors.

All of the known victims of Sandusky were minors aged 8 to 17.
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 35):
All of the known victims of Sandusky were minors aged 8 to 17.

If they weren't minors, then they weren't victims.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it.

This statement is just stunning. Does it make it ok if they go gay? What kind of ratio of straight to gay converts makes it all worthwhile?
 
johns624
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
I do not believe, however, that all of the victims were minors. It may not be part of the investigation but I believe there is much more to this story that will come out over time

What difference does it make if some weren't minors? All the ones connected to the charges that he was convicted of were.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
Just meant to cause thought in a different direction

What direction would that be? Please explain yourself...
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12425
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:09 am

So far, not a peep from the NCAA. They tend to move like an a snail going up a steep hill. They tend to take years and not weeks to make a decision. They and the schools PSU would play during the season have too many disincentives to shut down the program. A decision should be made within the next week but I doubt it.

The Paterno family is declining to make major comments on the Freeh report, they want to take time to review it and seek 'evidence' used to refute it and anything wrong done by Daddy Joe.

Some in the report and part of the cover up cannot talk about upon advice from PSU and their own attorneys due to the pending criminal cases, possible future charges and the huge civil lawsuits. That means not much more until future trials of the former PSU President and others.

There were some news reports today that 3 were claiming that they were raped/sexually assaulted by Sandusky in the 1970's and 1980's.

There was an article at CNN .com this morning by a former administrator as to student discipline at PSU who had to leave due to demands for special treatment of athletes - including by Joe Paterno - who did serious and violent criminal acts. (She is now at a similar administrative post at a Div. III NJ State college).

To me, the next real step has to come from the students, the alumni and 'locals'. They have to choose not to support the football team, perhaps even protest in significant numbers at any games (especially by staying away). They must demand all students are treated fairly and firmly if do something illegal or wrong. They need to be at every board meeting to ask questions, get answers and most of all make they and all schools administrators do their duty. They also should participate in significant numbers in helping the child victims of abusers like Sandusky and to help at-risk children so they don't end up as potential victims of other Sandukys.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:14 am

It almost seems like this football team and coach has a cult following... even in the face of this evidence people are denying he did anything wrong. This is a sick case and I cannot believe it went on for decades. Shame on you Paterno... I don't care how good of a coach you were. The school should pay big time. Send the athletes elsewhere... the school needs to be cleaned out
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:52 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):
Your victim blaming is part of what enables pedophiles to do what they do and get away with it.

I am not blaming the victims and I never said I was.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 35):
All of the known victims of Sandusky were minors aged 8 to 17.

O.K. all of the "known" victims. But where there is smoke there is fire. There are more.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 36):
This statement is just stunning

"Stunning"? Wow, lots of drama here.
No, it's simply is what it is. I never said or implied it would cause someone to "go" gay as you state.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:58 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 38):
So far, not a peep from the NCAA.

They're too busy sanctioning CalTech for violating a rule designed to prevent a school from letting its athletes slide by academically.

No, seriously, they're actually doing that. I wish I was joking:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...h-punished-for-academics-seriously

The NCAA's top priority should be dismantling the Penn State football program. It should do NOTHING ELSE until that has been done. The more minor stuff (i.e. every other violation any other school has made) can wait. And if it can't do that, then maybe the NCAA itself should get dismantled. Penn State may have taken the deification and supposed infallibility of sports to a new high (or should I say a new low?), but the NCAA gleefully works to feed that sort of culture.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants, it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?

I think it's fairly safe to answer that question with a big fat ZERO.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
Not meant to be despicable. Just meant to cause thought in a different direction.

Yes, the "hey, they just might have enjoyed being used for sex by a man several decades older than they, so it might not really be as bad as we're all making it out to be, and after all men using boys for sex has been going on for millennia" direction. Lovely.  
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
O.K. all of the "known" victims. But where there is smoke there is fire. There are more.

Do you even know what the expression "where there's smoke there's fire" means? This is not smoke. This is a raging fire that, if the NCAA had any sense at all, would have already consumed the football program, cleansing the university and giving it some time to get its house in order before starting anew. The smoke was a long time ago.

But hey, let's say, for sake of argument, that you're right and there are more victims that aren't minors. Does that somehow make things better? Do we get to say "well, sure he raped children, but he also raped adults, so he's more of an equal-opportunity, non-age-discriminating rapist than just a pedophile"? Really, I fail to see how that's a positive.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 39):
It almost seems like this football team and coach has a cult following... even in the face of this evidence people are denying he did anything wrong.

Which is all the more reason for the NCAA to kill it off. Those idiots need to be taught a lesson about priorities in life.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
us330
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 41):
They're too busy sanctioning CalTech for violating a rule designed to prevent a school from letting its athletes slide by academically.

Glad to know the NCAA is doing its best to clamp down on schools whose athletic programs threaten the institutional integrity of a university
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 41):
after all men using boys for sex

Like it or not it is what it is.

You guys need to stop putting words in my mouth and trying to turn my opinions into something they are not just because they do not fit your agenda.

After all, they are just opinions.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
johns624
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 43):
After all, they are just opinions.

Yes, and certain opinions, carried out, turn into felonies.
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
"Stunning"? Wow, lots of drama here.
No, it's simply is what it is. I never said or implied it would cause someone to "go" gay as you state.


Bullsh*t, that's exactly what you said. And yes, getting raped at 12 is a fairly dramatic occurrence.

"Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it."


So maybe you can tell us what you think you meant? Does it make it ok if they go gay? What kind of ratio of straight to gay conversion makes it acceptable?
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
I think it is a lot more important that the victims be recognized and taken care of. The big-business university is well insured. Let it fend
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
nyway, again, I certainly don't condone what went on at Penn State, and if my kid had been a victim I'm sure I would flip!
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
Not meant to be despicable
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
At no point am I trying to fault the victims,
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
I am not blaming the victims and I never said I was.

What part of the above statements do you guys not get? I can twist and turn your statements around as well but choose to try to remain on topic.  
Quoting mham001 (Reply 45):
Does it make it ok if they go gay? What kind of ratio of straight to gay conversion makes it acceptable?

See quotes above.
Whatever your anger is, I am not a part of it. I haven't done a thing to you or anyone else. As a paying member I have as much right to post my opinions as anyone here does. Resorting to attacks is not good discussion.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 46):
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants

Let's have the full quote, shall we?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
While I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants

It's that first word that we have such a problem with. It's the same as if you said "I don't condone molesting children, but...." Normally, that sentence just says "I don't condone molesting children" and stops there.

Why are you so curious about whether the kids enjoyed it? Why do you want them recognized, when many of them are probably ashamed of what they were put through and want to keep a low profile? Why do you want the university to fend for itself when it is absolutely clear that the university is completely incapable of policing itself and taking the action that needs to be taken?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
luckyone
Posts: 2302
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 43):
You guys need to stop putting words in my mouth and trying to turn my opinions into something they are not just because they do not fit your agenda.

No one is putting words in your mouth, sir. We are using the words that have come out of it.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
O.K. all of the "known" victims. But where there is smoke there is fire. There are more.
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
I am not blaming the victims and I never said I was.

By asking if the victims enjoyed non-consensual, predatory sexual intercourse, yes, you are.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 46):
I certainly don't condone any of this behavior towards unwilling participants
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
I think it is a lot more important that the victims be recognized and taken care of. The big-business university is well insured. Let it fend
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
nyway, again, I certainly don't condone what went on at Penn State, and if my kid had been a victim I'm sure I would flip!
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
Not meant to be despicable
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
At no point am I trying to fault the victims,
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 40):
I am not blaming the victims and I never said I was.

What part of the above statements do you guys not get? I can twist and turn your statements around as well but choose to try to remain on topic.

Despite your insistence to the contrary, your initial statements of:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
it makes me wonder how many (if any) of these "victims" did not have any particular objection at the time these incidents were being perpetrated?
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 24):
Older men having their way with younger men has been going on since the dawn of man. Sometimes those on the recieving end actually find that they like it.

Indicate an apathy at best and at worst condoning or permissiveness of what has happened and in many cases are the exact same arguments that a sex offender (of any kind!) uses to rationalize his or her actions. Simply put your statements do.not.add.up.

Another perspective? Were I to hear someone make either of the two above statements, I would NOT leave my child alone with them, and probably wouldn't want my child around them at all.
 
BN747
Posts: 5344
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Freeh Report...Paterno Knew.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:08 pm

Title:...Paterno Knew.


I'll take Freeh Report as my vindication, when this story broke,and was first discussed here (can't seem to locate it)... I strongly advocated this point..and I took a lot flack for saying it was so. I said it was so ..because it occurred 'in a culture' many do not get exposed to and one I understood quite well (from a power/influence perspective). I went so far as to say Paterno was using his influence to dictate the outcome and how he could have just as easily used it to 'put and end to it'..and he chose not to. And quite a few here said 'no he couldn't' or "...he followed the rules and did what was demanded of him.." ..no, he did not.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SQ948 and 16 guests