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Aloha717200
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Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:29 am

I continue to be surprised that this project is still moving forward.

Clive Palmer recently released the deck plans for the proposed Titanic II. You can see them here:

http://media.apnonline.com.au/73.2/i...tanicII_GA_12_07_2012_COLOUR_3.pdf

Midship section:

http://media.apnonline.com.au/73.2/i...II_6712_3210_1_Midship_Section.pdf

If you zoom in on the deck plans provided above, the first side view shows the layout of the original Titanic. Everything thereafter is Titanic II.

What's interesting is that the ship is going to be a meter wider than the original, and is also going to have one additional deck...a safety deck closer to the water line which wiill house lifeboats, among other things, bringing Titanic II in compliance with current regulations regarding height of lifeboats above the water line. This is similar to what was theorized would happen in the first Titanic II thread. There will also be an observation area located in the forward smoke stacks, and most impressive of all, the new deck plans reveal many of the elements of the original Titanic that will be retained. This includes the Grand Staircase, the opulent lounges, smoking and dining rooms, and even replica lifeboats in the places where the originals were housed. Take a look and see what details you can catch!

Here's an article to read about it:
http://news.yahoo.com/titanic-ii-saf...-says-aussie-tycoon-051013460.html


And the official press release:

http://www.bluestarline.com.au/media-20120717.html


Of particular note is the retention of 3rd class, as well as the retention of strict rules regarding which classes can use which facilities aboard the ship. I venture to guess that this will anger some who would like to explore every area of the ship, but we'll see if that would be enough to actually threaten the venture. Thoughts?

[Edited 2012-07-17 03:50:14]
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:44 am

Wait? What? Enough lifeboats? 

It would be great if they would also recreate the 1910's feeling. For example no news, except for radio-transmitted telegrams. Strict dress code. No cinema, except for silent movies. Appropriate demeanour both in- and outside of the suites.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
Klaus
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 1):
Wait? What? Enough lifeboats?

That of course ruins the whole authentic atmosphere.   
 
AF1624
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 1):
It would be great if they would also recreate the 1910's feeling. For example no news, except for radio-transmitted telegrams. Strict dress code. No cinema, except for silent movies. Appropriate demeanour both in- and outside of the suites.

Totally agree on that. No movie theaters, no swimming pools, but instead a smoking lounge, a classic gym, etc.

The big problem is, today's rich people aren't at all prepared to pay big amounts of money for that. The guys who roll in gold-plated Porsches and Lambos don't really dig "sober".
Cheers
 
na
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:22 am

No flip-flops, no shorts.

This detail will look very odd, not so say ugly: replica lifeboats on the upper deck, but real, modern lifeboats down below where todays regulations require them (and likely white and orange arranged in the black hull!).

I doubt this Titanic II will happen. Bound to sink before the keel is laid.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:55 am

I'm actually looking forward to it being built. Might be a money maker. I'd pay to travel in one of the cabins (though with my luck it may sink on its maiden voyage as well)   
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Ps76
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:56 am

Hi!

Quoting na (Reply 4):
I doubt this Titanic II will happen. Bound to sink before the keel is laid.

I would have to agree with this. My personal opinion is that it's a terrible idea to make a recreation of a ship which went down in such a tragedy. And to make money off the publicity of people losing their lives is a bit sick (although James Cameron did it as do many Titanic book and DVD makers).

But honestly cruise ships of today are much more comfortable. And maybe some people would be interested but being in a successor/replica to a ship with so many dead would freak me out.

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
Mir
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:03 pm

Will the deck chairs be fixed in place, or will it be possible to move them around and change their configuration?

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 3):
no swimming pools

Didn't the original Titanic have a pool? Not an outdoor one like current cruise liners, but one tucked away down in the bowels of the ship.

-Mir
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txjim
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:12 pm

I must be missing something but I don't understand their customer base. If you have ample cash, there are plenty of high-end liners with better ammenities and low passanger counts. If you need to pay for a third class ticket you are most likely going to be on a Carnival cruise participating in belly-flop competitions.

I can see a certain segment trying this once but the current breed of cruise ships, both small luxiory and mega-ships for the masses, have evolved to meet vastly different customer demands.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting txjim (Reply 8):
I must be missing something but I don't understand their customer base. If you have ample cash, there are plenty of high-end liners with better ammenities and low passanger counts. If you need to pay for a third class ticket you are most likely going to be on a Carnival cruise participating in belly-flop competitions.

I can see a certain segment trying this once but the current breed of cruise ships, both small luxiory and mega-ships for the masses, have evolved to meet vastly different customer demands.

  

Yep, exactly my thoughts. If ever realised, this project will be a big flop.
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zkojq
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:15 pm

I fail to see a business case. Who really wants to spend days at sea in a cruise ship whose interior is not much better than one from the 1910s, named after an ocean liner that sunk killing most of its passengers? And why would anyone want to be a steerage passenger? Sure Titanic's first class interior would be very elegant (i'm thinking of the grand stairway in particular), but I think passengers would get sick of a lack of modern amenities pretty quickly. In my view is that the only possible way this ship will ever get built is if some eccentric billionaire takes over the project and turns it into their private yacht.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Didn't the original Titanic have a pool? Not an outdoor one like current cruise liners, but one tucked away down in the bowels of the ship.

Yes:
http://dianaoverbey.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pool.jpg

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 9):
Yep, exactly my thoughts. If ever realised, this project will be a big flop.

  
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
I continue to be surprised that this project is still moving forward.

I would not go sailing on that thing for the life of me.
Who would want to go sailing on a Chinese built Titanic 2?

The money would be much better spent refitting the QE2 to present standards maybe in a joint ownership with the Dubai company and sailing her around the world for the joy of all her fans and former passengers.

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Who would want to go sailing on a Chinese built Titanic 2?

I'm guessing a hell of a lot more people than would want to sail on

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
the QE2

You just don't appear to understand the QE2's time was well and truly up, if Carnival thought that they could still make money on her they would have refitted QE2 themselves and used her as a running mate for Queen Mary, instead they built Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth, ships which are much cheaper to operate and offer what people want today.

Carnival is not a not for profit organisation running museum ships for older folks who want to remember days past.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Who would want to go sailing on a Chinese built Titanic 2?

It can't be worse than the original from Belfast.

/Lars
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:31 pm

Let's look at it this way: why would I spend thousands of dollars crossing the Atlantic on the Queen Mary 2 and spend days at sea when for loads less I can have the same crossing in less than 8 hours?

Why listen to 60s, 70s, and 80s music when today there are dozens of radio stations with modern music?

Why sail on the Mississippi River in a river boat when you can sail in a yacht?

Why fly with Southwest when you can travel first class with a legacy?

I like seeing how people think that because THEY don't like it it means no one else will. I would be willing to pay and go across the Atlantic (assuming its withing reach) recreating the 1910s atmosphere. That's the whole focus of this ship: recreating an old era. Those who purchase a ticket know they will be away from modern technology (and if people like to camp, go hiking, etc, then this shouldn't be much of a problem). I think some people might like to go on a fantasy cruise like this. The question is whether the ship will be profitable enough to continue the themed voyage.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
And why would anyone want to be a steerage passenger?

This is perhaps the only thing they should have to change...eliminate many (if not all) of the third class accommodations and increase the number of 1st/2nd class staterooms. Modern day staterooms resemble mostly 2nd class staterooms anyway while suites resemble the 1st class ones.

Also, I think the segregation might be a bit too much and I don't see that rule lasting too long.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aesma
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:35 pm

Yeah, especially the 3rd class and segregation seem a bad idea. They could have bigger salons to compensate for more people, and of course a strict dress code.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:12 pm

I'd like a ride in one of the huge suites on B deck with the private promenade with maybe 3 friends...

I don't like the separate class structure; that part of this idea is a nonstarter. Why would anyone want to travel in 3rd class...that was for emigrants back in the day...not holiday travelers. I think they'll quickly revisit this idea, and eliminate separate classes.

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13):

It can't be worse than the original from Belfast.

   +The Chinese make excellent ships.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
nonrevman
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Third class does seem more like a prison than a vacation in today's environment. In order to sell these accommodations, I think the price would have to be very low. It would have to be a price that allows someone who could not afford a modern day ship or coach class on an airplane to be able to cross the Atlantic. Those people would not be paying for the Titanic historical steerage experience, they are there because that is the only way they could afford to travel.

I figure even 1st and 2nd class would have to be discounted in order to sell. You cannot compare the luxury of the original Titanic to that of the modern day cruise experience. First and second classes are going to have to be affordable to the middle class.

I agree that separating the classes is not a good idea. Why would you buy a ticket on this thing and not be able to see the grand stairway and other areas that would appeal to a Titanic buff?

This whole thing could work, but price is the key.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14):
I like seeing how people think that because THEY don't like it it means no one else will. I would be willing to pay and go across the Atlantic (assuming its withing reach) recreating the 1910s atmosphere. That's the whole focus of this ship: recreating an old era.

  

Exactly. Those who are wondering why anyone would bother going on this ship forget the massive amount of interest, worldwide, in the Titanic story. It's not just about people dying...it's much deeper than that. Titanic is a legend in people's minds..you have this elegant, beautiful ship, that represents a bygone era of extravagance and innovation that time has truly passed by.

Titanic was unique, in size and features, cutting edge for her time. Her replacement, Britannic, never saw passenger service, and was sunk during WWI. Olympic was the last of this class of ship to remain, and was broken up in the 1930s to provide jobs to Newcastle-area poor. People, to this day, travel to Newcastle to see the salvaged fittings of Olympic, which exist in several establishments in the area. People travel tto Belfast to see the Titanic museum built next to Titanic's original slipway. You have the movies, of course, the books, the widespread public fascination with Titanic survivor stories and new discoveries made on dives to the wreck. In a way, the legend of Titanic has far surpassed the idea of it merely being a ship...it goes beyond fittings and furnishings and comparison to competing ships...it's about reclaiming Atlantis...people. Titanic is the nautical equivalent to the lost city of Atlantis, and while I believe Atlantis is purely fiction, it's the idea of reclaiming something that seemed to be lost forever that captivates people the most.

We want what we can't have...and that legendary ship has been on the bottom of the sea for 100 years...lost to all but those who have the equipment to dive there. This ship gives people a chance to experience the legend first hand...beyond a 50% scale replica, beyond a movie, this time people get to walk Titanic's decks...and THAT is why tickets will sell.

The question is...once the novelty wears off, how long will people tolerate 3rd class cabins? And I expect that class segregation wouldn't go over well at all. Because for most people, being aboard Titanic would be akin to being in a museum...and you'd want to see all of the artifacts, especially the ones that are roped off and restricted.


My guess is, this venture is highly successful for about 10 years. After which time, the ship will either need a retrofit to reduce the number of 3rd class cabins, or will be moored somewhere as a floating tourist attraction, with all access permitted at that time.

That said, according to the diagrams, all cabins and staterooms are going to be modernized...this means your Titanic voyage will probably include wifi and a flat screen TV. I'm okay with that, as long as they keep the carpeting, furniture, upholstery, and architectural workings true to the original. It's about the "theme".
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 16):
+The Chinese make excellent ships.

There I have to disagree with you, the Chinese make cheap ships, they don't build them with anywhere near the same level of quality as the Koreans or Japanese. The Chinese have never built a large passenger vessel, these are very complex vessels, which are difficult to build, it takes experience to build them correctly, look at the mess Linton Ingalls made of Pride of America, she had to be towed to Lloyd Verft in Germany to fix all the mistakes.

I like the idea behind this project, but it has to be built cheaply (I guess) to make it viable, hence the reason why none of the 4 major cruise/ferry yards in Europe haven't been selected to build her.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 18):
Her replacement, Britannic, never saw passenger service, and was sunk during WWI.

Britanic wasn't her replacement, White Star always planned to build three ships.
 
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kasimir
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:59 pm

Don't like the idea either and if they gonna keep it as original as possible, lots of people will realize how unromantic the Titanic really was/is and this will flop in the end.

The only interesting business case I can think off, is to have it operate on 1-3 day coastal cruises for some nostalgic people as a floating museum. But operate this on transatlantic cruises or other 7+ day cruises will be the death penalty for this ship, because most passengers will get bored to death at some point.

Crossing the transatlantic on a modern cruise ship is already very very boring, I know that from experience!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
Of particular note is the retention of 3rd class, as well as the retention of strict rules regarding which classes can use which facilities aboard the ship. I venture to guess that this will anger some who would like to explore every area of the ship, but we'll see if that would be enough to actually threaten the venture. Thoughts?

Now THAT is unexpected.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
And why would anyone want to be a steerage passenger?

Yeah, that's the big question. Even aboard modern Cunard ships, there is a sort of First Class and Second Class ("Grills" vs. regular) but even then, it really only has to do with dinner seating and cabin luxury. Both classes otherwise have the run of the passenger areas of the ship.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
I fail to see a business case. Who really wants to spend days at sea in a cruise ship whose interior is not much better than one from the 1910s, named after an ocean liner that sunk killing most of its passengers?

I can actually think of a lot of people. Titanic is nothing short of legendary. How much money did Robert Ballard and friends spend finding her wreck? Why? I can imagine quite a few people who would love to experience what it would have been like to walk her decks.

What I can't imagine, as you pointed out, is why anyone would pay for a third-class ticket that would restrict their movements around the ship. Given that ships are no longer simply a means of transportation (that's what planes are for), the idea of a "Steerage" class makes no sense at all. What's the point of booking a ticket aboard this ship and not being able to ascend the Grand Staircase?

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
Sure Titanic's first class interior would be very elegant (i'm thinking of the grand stairway in particular), but I think passengers would get sick of a lack of modern amenities pretty quickly.

AFAIK, she will have modern amenities (toilets, showers, etc.) at least in first and second class. Not sure if Third Class would have shared facilities.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 12):
You just don't appear to understand the QE2's time was well and truly up, if Carnival thought that they could still make money on her they would have refitted QE2 themselves and used her as a running mate for Queen Mary, instead they built Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth, ships which are much cheaper to operate and offer what people want today.

   In fact, Carnival (and their subsidiary Cunard) saw a market for one and only one transatlantic ocean liner, and that is Queen Mary 2, the only true ocean liner left in service. The rest of their vessels are cruise ships. Is it sad? I suppose. So was the retirement of the L-1011 from passenger service. But ocean liners, once the only way to get across an ocean, have been supplanted by jet aircraft. There is simply no need for more ocean liners.
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Pellegrine
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 19):

There I have to disagree with you, the Chinese make cheap ships, they don't build them with anywhere near the same level of quality as the Koreans or Japanese. The Chinese have never built a large passenger vessel, these are very complex vessels, which are difficult to build, it takes experience to build them correctly, look at the mess Linton Ingalls made of Pride of America, she had to be towed to Lloyd Verft in Germany to fix all the mistakes.

Hmm well, most of the world's cargo ships are Chinese-built nowadays. Few have problems such as you have described. Ask the Koreans and especially the Japanese how their shipbuilding business is going.  

Of course the Blue Star Line could very well choose to build it with Chantiers d'Atlantique or Odense Shipyard, but they'd pay $$$$ more.

At any rate, this ship couldn't easily suffer the same fate as it will be welded, instead of riveted, and have sealed bulkheads.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):

Hmm well, most of the world's cargo ships are Chinese-built nowadays. Few have problems such as you have described. Ask the Koreans and especially the Japanese how their shipbuilding business is going.

Boy are you wrong, the Chinese yards at the moment aren't doing so well, many yards are in trouble, the Koreans are picking up all the high value orders like drill ships, fpso's, lng carriers, by value the Koreans take over 40% of the market, the Japanese are making inroads into the cruise business and still build nearly all the ships required by Japanese owners. The Chinese build basic ships like bulkers, tankers and box carriers.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
and that is Queen Mary 2, the only true ocean liner left in service. The rest of their vessels are cruise ships.

And even the Queen Mary 2 is occasionally taken out from transatlantic voyages into round the world cruises or destination (Caribbean, Mediterranean, etc) cruises. A rather small, feeble market exists for transatlantic voyages, but that market alone is not enough for the cruise to bring in profits.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Will the deck chairs be fixed in place, or will it be possible to move them around and change their configuration?

I would say fixed. Heaven forbid that they'd be able to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic 2 . . . 

Pity the ship is a metre wider. It looks noticeably fatter than the original in the drawings, and consequently lacks the elegance of the original.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):
Pity the ship is a metre wider.

It's the anti-ice armor. 
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
At any rate, this ship couldn't easily suffer the same fate as it will be welded, instead of riveted, and have sealed bulkheads.

And radar and enough lifeboats.

The primary failure with the Titanic disaster was that they were violating one of the basic rules of navigation: Proceed no faster than the speed at which you can stop in half the distance you can see ahead. (a good rule whether you are taxiing an airplane, driving a car, or piloting a ship). If I recall correctly, it was a calm, moonless night, so icebergs would not be seen by moonlight or by the spray kicked up around their waterlines.

If she had been equipped with radar (which would not be developed for over two decades hence), they would have seen the iceberg coming well in advance and could have easily taken evasive action.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):

Ah, but evasive action could have been taken very early in the day. Plenty of warnings were relayed to Titanic. Even a couple of hours before, the SS Californian had tried to warn Titanic about a massive icepack and Titanic's wireless operator paid no attention. In the hurry to get in before the scheduled time, they decided to play with luck and unfortunately, look how it ended up. Heck, the SS Californian which was basically going to New York as well stopped for the night.
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 29):
Ah, but evasive action could have been taken very early in the day. Plenty of warnings were relayed to Titanic. Even a couple of hours before, the SS Californian had tried to warn Titanic about a massive icepack and Titanic's wireless operator paid no attention.

To be more precise, proper precautions could have been taken earlier in the day. Titanic is said to have cruised at around 21kt, and she was proceeding at "full steam," which probably meant normal service speed at the time, although she could go as fast as 24kt. That is way too fast to be steaming in iceberg-ridden water without moon, waves to kick up spray, or radar. The assumption was that shipbuilding had come to the point that ships simply did not sink anymore and that ice was not a danger to large ships.

Somewhat off-topic, I recently learned that there is some debate over whether Titanic's center propeller (the turbine-powered one) was three or four-bladed. Olympic was fitted with a four-blade center propeller and it was commonly assumed that Titanic was fitted identically. However, later Olympic was refitted with a three-blade propeller, which was then replaced again with a four-blade model. In fact, there are no photographs surviving of Titanic's center propeller, although there is one photograph of the ship on the slipway with no propellers mounted, but a four-bladed propeller lying on the dock alongside. Whether that propeller was to be mounted on Titanic or another ship is not clear. The only primary source surviving at this point is a technical document from the shipyard indicating that Titanic was indeed fitted with a triple-blade center propeller, while Olympic was fitted with a four-blade version. Likely, White Star was comparing the two to see which option gave better performance and efficiency. Also of interest, Olympic's propellers had a pitch of 34 feet, later increased to 34'6", while Titanic's propellers were installed with a pitch of 35', suggesting that she could do about 1/2 kt faster than her sister.

It's important to realize that detailed technical characteristics of ocean liner performance (particularly propulsion system specifications) were carefully guarded corporate secrets in an era when competing lines vied for the most efficient and fastest ships. Now, 100 years later, these records (kept on paper) are mostly lost, destroyed, or difficult-to-read.

Some interesting information is found here: http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org...ery-titanic-central-propeller.html
-Doc Lightning-

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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:56 pm

They are making so many modifications to the planned ship will it be anything at all like the original?

After spending a ton of money in the planning stages I think this project will go broke before the ship is even started.

As for cruises on it? I'll believe it when it's at the dock loading passengers.
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Pellegrine
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:17 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 24):

Boy are you wrong, the Chinese yards at the moment aren't doing so well, many yards are in trouble, the Koreans are picking up all the high value orders like drill ships, fpso's, lng carriers, by value the Koreans take over 40% of the market

I'm talking sheer numbers not final value. The Koreans build a majority of ships for the petroleum industry yes. However, you will find that a lot of those ships are not even outfitted with all the "high value" equipment in ROK but in Europe and America after delivery. The Koreans and the Japanese used to build what you said next, ore carriers, tankers, bulk carriers, roros... That business has gone to China. The Japanese business is decidedly down over the past 30 years. For them to recover in the past few years is great, but it's not where Japanese shipyards used to be in the 70s and 80s.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that there is not anything inherently wrong with a Chinese ship. A few anecdotes of crappily-built ships doesn't sink a whole nation's industry.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):
Pity the ship is a metre wider. It looks noticeably fatter than the original in the drawings, and consequently lacks the elegance of the original.

I doubt anyone will be able to tell from the shoreline or another boat on the seas. I'm surprised it's that similar to the original.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 31):
They are making so many modifications to the planned ship will it be anything at all like the original?

It can't be an exact replica. By today's' standards, the first and most important modification is the addition of enough lifeboats for the passengers. Looks like in the deck plans, the ones on the boat deck are simply replicas and not designed to be used (hence the ones in the lower decks).

It must use up to date equipment which don't pollute as much as their older counterparts, and is more reliable than the equipment used back then.

Passengers will want to experience the recreation of the 1910s atmosphere, but even then, modern technology may be introduced. The rich investor will want to keep track of his portfolio and will want to have Wifi for his laptop. His wife would like to blow dry her hair, so she'll definitely bring along one. The children will want to be entertained, so a TV in the staterooms will be a plus. Portholes will not be able to open or close (I assume this will be the case), so the ship will most likely have air conditioning. If there's an emergency, PA speakers will definitely be around.

Also, looking at the engines, seems the central one will be fixed while the outer ones will be azipods (which of course is necessary. How many tugboats exist today?).

So, when you look at it, it's pretty obvious it won't be completely like the original, but they can try to make it as close as possible.
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
Of course the Blue Star Line could very well choose to build it with Chantiers d'Atlantique or Odense Shipyard.....

Odense Shipyard closed down on 26th November last year. 3000 specially invited guests attended the big "close down party" as the last new-built ship sailed away - after 94 years of shipbuilding.

And the owner, His Excellency Maersk Mc-Kinney Moeller (RE S.K. CBE), died on 16th April this year 98 years old.

Mr. Moeller was a generous man. He donated a new opera house (some $1bn) to Copenhagen city, and he likely spent way more than that on keeping Odense Shipyard alive and healthy during the last couple of decades. He just liked to build his own ships for his own shipping company. But even with dozens of billions on the bank account a hobby can become just too expensive.

Game over!
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
Also, looking at the engines, seems the central one will be fixed while the outer ones will be azipods (which of course is necessary. How many tugboats exist today?).

Lots, actually. The majority of ships in service don't have azipods. Most freighters/tankers still use fixed screws, for example. Not only that, but azipods are only in common use in the last ten or so years. So even relatively new ships (including Costa Concordia of recent infamy) are fitted with fixed props, rather than azipods.

Without azipods, if the ship needs to reverse out of a dock into a moving body of water (say, backing out of a dock into the Hudson river), then tugs will be needed to stabilize the stern while it is in the flow, while the bow is in the sheltered water of the dock.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 32):
However, you will find that a lot of those ships are not even outfitted with all the "high value" equipment in ROK but in Europe and America after delivery.

Not true, for example the Stena Drill MAX's and Drill MAX ICE were all built and fitted out in Korea.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 32):
The Koreans and the Japanese used to build what you said next, ore carriers, tankers, bulk carriers, roros... That business has gone to China.

But not all of it, and according to Clarkson's a lot of owners are now coming back to Korea.

You can't compare building a passenger vessel to building anything else. I very much doubt the quality of fittings and fixtures will be anywhere near up to what one of the European yards will be able to do. I know this from experience, you just have to look at the Chinese copies of the products my company produces to see that, the company I work for is a major supplier of lighting to the shipping industry.
 
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 36):
I very much doubt the quality of fittings and fixtures will be anywhere near up to what one of the European yards will be able to do.

On modern cruise ships, aren't most of the rooms and fixtures done remotely and then installed as modules?
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):

Pity the ship is a metre wider. It looks noticeably fatter than the original in the drawings, and consequently lacks the elegance of the original.

I don't know about that... A meter wider makes it less proportionally different to the original than the 707/27/37/57 was to the KC-135 series. And I can't tell visually the width difference looking at them. And this is from a guy who works on those a/c fuselages for a living...
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 34):

Odense Shipyard closed down on 26th November last year. 3000 specially invited guests attended the big "close down party" as the last new-built ship sailed away - after 94 years of shipbuilding.

And the owner, His Excellency Maersk Mc-Kinney Moeller (RE S.K. CBE), died on 16th April this year 98 years old.

Mr. Moeller was a generous man. He donated a new opera house (some $1bn) to Copenhagen city, and he likely spent way more than that on keeping Odense Shipyard alive and healthy during the last couple of decades. He just liked to build his own ships for his own shipping company. But even with dozens of billions on the bank account a hobby can become just too expensive.

Game over!

Too bad for Denmark. I had no idea... Moeller was a good man.
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Aloha717200
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):
Pity the ship is a metre wider. It looks noticeably fatter than the original in the drawings, and consequently lacks the elegance of the original.

I doubt you'll be able to see the difference when the ship's at the dock...we're only talking 3 feet of difference here.

I'm actually liking the idea of the Safety Deck as well..because it solves a lot of problems. Lifeboats being the major one, but it also provides new space that doesn't have to match the original ship, in which you could place modern amenities.

So the safety deck could very well house the modern entertainment areas to placate those bored with the 1910s theme after 4 days...not to mention these areas are common, so even steerage passengers could partake.
 
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
On modern cruise ships, aren't most of the rooms and fixtures done remotely and then installed as modules?

Rooms yes, that's pretty easy they just plug in, but that's for a modern ship, this one is being built as a Titanic replica, I don't think they will be able to build it like this.
 
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 41):
ooms yes, that's pretty easy they just plug in, but that's for a modern ship, this one is being built as a Titanic replica, I don't think they will be able to build it like this.

Maybe, though. The plans do say that the rooms will be enlarged and modernized, so perhaps they can accommodate this kind of construction method. I guess we'll see.

Aside from the questions about the chinese involvement, what do you guys think of Deltamarin?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 33):
It must use up to date equipment which don't pollute as much as their older counterparts, and is more reliable than the equipment used back then.

Also, where would you get the 300+ stokers and coal trimmewrs to do the back breaking and dangerous job of firing the boilers?

Jan
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 43):
Also, where would you get the 300+ stokers and coal trimmewrs to do the back breaking and dangerous job of firing the boilers?

China, duh!  
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 41):

Rooms yes, that's pretty easy they just plug in, but that's for a modern ship, this one is being built as a Titanic replica, I don't think they will be able to build it like this.

Not sure. The key word is "replica." In other words, if it looks legit to the passengers, that's what matters in the end. I don't think many passengers really care about the construction methods.

The other thing is that part of the reason why this construction is used on modern cruise ships is that it simplifies overhaul. Rather than having to meticulously refurbish each cabin while the ship is in drydock, the cabins can be replaced remotely and then plugged in while the ship is in drydock, which reduces the time that the ship is out of service. However, on this ship, the cabins will already be "outdated," but that doesn't mean that the cabins won't get worn out with repeated use and need refurbishment. So it becomes a question of whether cabin maintenance will be done in situ or by the more modern system. I can see advantages and disadvantages to each method.
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ghifty
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:47 pm

This is silly. Cool, but silly. Gives me hope that someone will take on an L-1011 and fly it around (at much cheaper cost!)!

Hm.. also, the original Titanic had a fourth "dummy" funnel. Seems like this one will have four dummy funnels.

EDIT: Wikipedia seems to state that the funnels will have "viewing" areas, that the ship (minus the addition of a safety deck) will look identical to Titanic above waterlevel (below waterlevel the ship will get the now-traditional bulbous bow), and that all passenger accommodations below D Deck will match current cruise ship standards, whilst anything above will match the original Titanic's staterooms. I assume that is the "class separation" referred to in the article, which, at all, isn't bad. I suppose the only difference is the ticket will read "steerage" instead of "traveller" or "Y/T/Z" class.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 28):
Proceed no faster than the speed at which you can stop in half the distance you can see ahead.

The problem with Titanic was that they tried to avoid the iceberg by turning starboard and reversing the engines. I think rudders need water moving past them in order to properly "steer" a ship, much like an aircraft's rudder. It's not gonna do anything if the object's not moving.

[Edited 2012-07-18 16:55:34]
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 45):
The problem with Titanic was that they tried to avoid the iceberg by turning starboard and reversing the engines. I think rudders need water moving past them in order to properly "steer" a ship, much like an aircraft's rudder. It's not gonna do anything if the object's not moving.

It's worse than that. The center propeller was mounted on the midline so that the rudder was built around that prop with a central aperture for the propeller.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/5/0/9/1/4/7/titanic-propellers-66686005426.jpeg

BTW, the right photo is also Olympic. No photos of Titanic's central propeller actually exist, as described in my link above.

So as you can see, a lot of the rudder's control authority came from the propeller's slipstream. When the engines were ordered full astern, the rudder was robbed of that slipstream and thus of full control authority. A better course of action would have been to order the port propeller full astern, full left rudder, and keeping the starboard and central propellers full ahead.

Some have argued that they should have rammed the iceberg straight-on. While it's true that the ship probably would have stayed afloat, this is a case of 20/20 hindsight. The officer of the watch was trying to avoid a collision altogether, which is a reasonable course of action. If they'd hit the 'berg head-on, I can only imagine how well the defense of "I didn't want it to scrape down the side of the ship popping open multiple watertight compartments and sinking her" would go over.
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DocLightning
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RE: Titanic II Deck Plans Released

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 45):
The problem with Titanic was that they tried to avoid the iceberg by turning starboard and reversing the engines.

BTW, nitpicking, but the 'berg struck them on the starboard bow. They were trying to turn to port.
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