Ps76
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Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:42 pm

Hi!

One of the things I am interested in science is gravity. Unfortunately as far as I know we still know very little about it. I don't know much about it but I think I read the new Cern-Higgins discovery has something to do with understanding mass and maybe gravity too. Besides that I mainly satisfy my appetite with Art Bell shows and videos like the Hutchinson effect on Youtube. But these are probably fake.

But more seriously do you think we'll ever understand gravity and what causes it? And then will we be able to make machines which make anti-gravity?

Apologies if this is a bit of an out-there topic!

Any thoughts/opinions welcome.

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
D L X
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:46 pm

You know, I was just reading a good book about anti-gravity. It was impossible to put it down!

Ba-dum-ching!  



But to answer your question, no. I don't think we will ever be able to actually remove the boson from the atom, even if we are able to figure out exactly what it does.
 
Ps76
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:22 pm

Hi!

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
You know, I was just reading a good book about anti-gravity. It was impossible to put it down!

If you want interesting check this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG5iTxCLi7Q

According to Richard Hoagland the Nazi's have already discovered anti-gravity and have escaped to the moon! This guy should get an oscar!

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
Maverick623
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Thread starter):
Unfortunately as far as I know we still know very little about it

Actually, we know a lot about gravity. It is simply the effect produced when a massive* object warps the local space-time field around it.

OK, maybe not "simply", but it's a start... the best way to describe it to someone with no background in physics or math.



*Massive means any particle that has mass.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
But to answer your question, no. I don't think we will ever be able to actually remove the boson from the atom, even if we are able to figure out exactly what it does.

LOL what? A Higgs is heavier than a "normal" atom.

Quoting Ps76 (Thread starter):
But more seriously do you think we'll ever understand gravity and what causes it? And then will we be able to make machines which make anti-gravity?

Sure. We just need imaginary or negative mass. I forget which one. No one has ever found any.
 
Ps76
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:07 am

Hi!

Many thanks for the replies. I will have to look more into it.

I don't think it is as simple as having strong magnetic/electrical fields as demonstrated in the famous John Hutchinson anti-gravity footage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuQBmnOfRE

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
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Aesma
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:04 am

I'm guessing that even if we could do it, it would need massive amounts of energy, far more than what is needed to make a helicopter fly, so there would be no reason to use it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Ps76
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:16 am

Hi!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
I'm guessing that even if we could do it, it would need massive amounts of energy, far more than what is needed to make a helicopter fly, so there would be no reason to use it.

According to the "scientist" Bob Lazar who claimed to have worked on an anti-gravity alien spacecraft in the 80s this energy is provided by an element 115 which he says has not been found yet on Earth.

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Gravity_Generator.htm

Seeing that he has essentially dissappeared from public view though it seems highly likely that his story was not true unfortunately.

Many thanks.

Pierre
 
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:34 am

If humans live long enough then we probably will. We don't know how it would work so who's to say we will never achieve it? The same with anti-inertia. Stuff like this is too complex for our minds to comprehend at the present because it seems like technology out of a sci-fi movie. Compared to how much is out there when it comes to physics, we know almost nothing. There are things we don't know about, and things we don't know we don't know about.

 
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NoWorries
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 4):
Sure. We just need imaginary or negative mass. I forget which one. No one has ever found any.

Anyone 50+ will remember the Rocky and Bullwinkle episodes featuring upsidasium -- we just need to find a floating mountain with an upsidasium mine -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsidaisium_(story_arc)

Cosmologists estimate that most of the universe consists of something called dark energy and the net effect of it is repulsion -- it's why the universe seems to be expanding at an increasing rate -- so in a figurative way, negative mass exists.

Coming way back down to earth, it's difficult to imagine a way to "turn off" the effect of mass and energy that causes it to bend space-time. But, who knows what the future might hold!!
 
comorin
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:46 am

Of greater interest to me is how they turn on gravity in spaceships - all the best sci-fi movies and shows do this.   
 
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting NoWorries (Reply 9):
Cosmologists estimate that most of the universe consists of something called dark energy and the net effect of it is repulsion -- it's why the universe seems to be expanding at an increasing rate -- so in a figurative way, negative mass exists.

Yup, but we're not sure about what dark energy really is--but indeed, it "pushes stuff apart"--in a way, acting opposite to gravity (if we interpret it as a force). Also, it doesn't decrease in importance as the age of the universe increases, as does radiation and matter, so in the end, the universe will be just "dark energy" (whatever that is). Some think it's somehow embedded in the underlying structure of the universe--in that case it'd be hard to use it to propel ships I suppose, but, if we don't wipe each other out, who knows how far we can get in 1000 years?
 
NoWorries
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 11):
Also, it doesn't decrease in importance as the age of the universe increases, as does radiation and matter, so in the end, the universe will be just "dark energy" (whatever that is).

That part of the theory has always bothered me. It's claimed that the expected value for the "dark energy" field remains constant even as the universe expands. So the density of normal matter and energy (and even presumably dark matter) continually decreases over time while the density of dark energy does not. Since the universe is expanding, that implies the amount of dark energy is actually increasing, which seems to violate conservation of mass/energy.
 
A320ajm
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:06 am

We know very little about gravity relative to the other fundamental forces. The gravitational constant (G) is often said to be the worst known and least accurate of the universal constants.

Regards,
A320ajm
If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
 
NoWorries
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:00 pm

Einstein's General relativity, which is the best understanding we have for gravity, has been around for about 100 years. The Standard Model, which is the best understanding we have for the other fundamental forces as well as the fundamental particles, has evolved for about 80 years from the work of Bohr, Heisenberg, and dozens of great physicists. The recently discovered Higgs Boson is a key player in the Standard Model. All attempts to integrate gravity into the standard model have failed -- it's still quite mysterious. Supporters of String Theory say that it can bring them together -- but not all physicists agree on that point.

There's a nice little book, Three Roads to Quantum Gravity by Lee Smolin, that provides an overview of physicists attempts over the years to reconcile gravity with the "rest" of physics. It's about 10 years old, so there may be bits that are out of date, but still a very good overview.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:19 pm

Well, we can defy gravity today. Unfortunately we can only do it for a limited time and the process is inefficient and expensive.

If I remember my physics from school, anything with mass would have its own gravity and be subject to the gravity of other bodies around it. Something with negative mass would, presumably, exhibit a property that could be called "anti-gravity".

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Of greater interest to me is how they turn on gravity in spaceships - all the best sci-fi movies and shows do this.

That's easy - it's artificial gravity, init.  
Quoting NoWorries (Reply 9):
Anyone 50+ will remember the Rocky and Bullwinkle

Anyone 50+ AND American. The rest of us have no clue what you're on about.   
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
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moo
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:42 pm

I like to think that some day we will, because I like to take the stance that we are a very young civilisation and I don't personally believe that the future of our science is as set in stone by the works of Einstein et al as some people like to profess.

Einstein didn't know about the strong and weak nuclear forces, and he failed at his unified theory because he didnt have all the variables - there is still a massive disconnect between how physics is thought to work on the macro level and how its thought to work on the quantum level, so much so that the two are basically incompatible.

How can that be? Well, no one knows - and thats the beauty of it.

I like to believe that we couldnt put ever lasting, hard boundaries on the universe after only a hundred years or so of studying it - thats not to say Einstein et al were wrong, just that they were less well informed than scientists a thousand years from now. I cant bring myself to accept that several people who did nothing more than think about it and run some fundamentally basic experiments compared to what we can do today (and thus, projecting on a thousand years...) could determine that much about the entire universe.

Break the speed of light? Yup, that will happen. Cant put a timescale on it, but its going to happen. Same goes for anti-gravity.
 
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:55 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 15):
Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Of greater interest to me is how they turn on gravity in spaceships - all the best sci-fi movies and shows do this.

That's easy - it's artificial gravity, init.

Then Hollywood deserves a Nobel Prize!

Quoting moo (Reply 16):
I like to believe that we couldnt put ever lasting, hard boundaries on the universe after only a hundred years or so of studying it -

   Wiser words were never said.
 
rampart
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RE: Do You Think We'll Ever Have Anti-gravity?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 6):
I'm guessing that even if we could do it, it would need massive amounts of energy, far more than what is needed to make a helicopter fly, so there would be no reason to use it.


Setting: southern Europe, ca. 16,000 years before present, cave interior dimly lit by bear-oil torch, two Solutrean males idly painting on the walls.

Og: "Do you think we will ever fly?"
Grunk: "Maybe, but we would need better paint magic."
Og: "But what if we could use this newly-discovered perpetual fire?"
Grunk: "Possible, but we'd need so much of it. Besides, we have trees to climb, so there would be no reason to use it."

-Rampart

[Edited 2012-07-20 06:24:16]

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