luv2fly
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Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Color me shocked. Though a person can keep there private life to themselves that is for sure. She did so much for women in space and science, think of all the gay geeks that would have had a role model.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...24/sally-ride-sexuality/56467620/1
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Mir
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Thread starter):
She did so much for women in space and science, think of all the gay geeks that would have had a role model.

Her achievements can still be looked up to, can't they?

-Mir
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AirframeAS
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Thread starter):
Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

What was her A.net name then??
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luv2fly
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Her achievements can still be looked up to, can't they?

-Mir

TOTALLY

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
What was her A.net name then??

I am talking gay, one of us gays.
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MD-90
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:06 pm

What's even better is that her success as an astronaut wasn't defined by her sex or sexual orientation but by her competence.
 
mt99
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
What's even better is that her success as an astronaut wasn't defined by her sex or sexual orientation but by her competence.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?
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Tugger
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
What's even better is that her success as an astronaut wasn't defined by her sex or sexual orientation but by her competence.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

I think main point is that success and the ability to be a "good human being" (if not great one) has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. Regardless of sexual attraction people can be and are wroth while and valued just for being themselves. People who judge based on ones sexual orientation are yesterdays news and need to be ignored (whether in favor of or against).

That she was gay meant nothing in her ability to do well in life, be a good person and be successful. With that though, some people, especially people who might relate to something about her, may look up to her for how she lived her life and what she did and draw inspiration from that. Nothing wrong with that, we all use different things to motivate us in life.

Tugg
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Mir
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
What was her A.net name then??

Yeah, that was my first thought when I saw the thread title. I was disappointed.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 3):
TOTALLY

Basically, my point was that I'm not sure why you said that the gay community would have had a role model. They do have a role model - her achievements don't die with her, everyone knows what she did.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

In the ideal world, it isn't. But we don't live in an ideal world, and a lot of times people's achievements will be judged differently because of their sexual orientation, their race, their gender, etc., especially when a person is the first of their "group" to do something.

-Mir
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smittyone
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:39 pm

Gay people absolutely do not belong in space. It's just not natural.




 
 
mt99
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Come on dude, no need to bury your head in the sand! It shouldn't be that way, but of course there are plenty of cases where it is

Can you give me an example?

Just to be clear - you are saying that a person who is only so-so at what they do, get extra credit are considered more competent that they really are based purely on their sexual orientation.

Let limit this to actual quantifiable "competency" - and not wheater you think that Mellisa Etheridge is a good singer or not - as that would your preference and not quantifiable.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
Although I understand how someone so successful can be held in high regard in the gay community, it's refreshing to me that she kept her private life.....private.

For most of her career at NASA she had to - or she would have gotten fired...

"There's no question that Sally Ride could have been fired if she'd come out while she worked for NASA," says Sainz. "It was important then to keep it a secret or you'd affect your security clearance.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...24/sally-ride-sexuality/56467620/1

[Edited 2012-07-25 13:18:22]
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luv2fly
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:24 pm

What is sad is that her partner of 27 years, who she shared her life with, now gets none of Sally Ride's survivor benefits, benefits that would have been paid to a surviving spouse had she been heterosexual.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Flighty
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:27 pm

She wouldn't need to look too hard for a personal theme song.
 
airtran737
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:32 pm

I figured that she ordered the fish tacos when she had dinner at the bar, but it shouldn't take away from her accomplishment. She was a trailblazer for women, and still is.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
mt99
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
What is sad is that her partner of 27 years, who she shared her life with, now gets none of Sally Ride's survivor benefits, benefits that would have been paid to a surviving spouse had she been heterosexual.

But how wonderful that she kept her life private don't you think? Who cares about anything else?

Note that i am not criticizing Sally for not coming out publicly. That is her choice and she had all the right in the world to live as she saw fit, and she did not owe it to anybody - not even to the gay community - to have done anything differently.

That being said - I criticize the people who say: "what a good gay she was because she kept it private"

It was her choice to keep it private, and she should not have been looked upon any differently if she had chosen to be publicly open about it. Statements like this seem to suggest the opposite.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):
understand how someone so successful can be held in high regard in the gay community, it's refreshing to me that she kept her private life.....private.
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D L X
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 15):
But how wonderful that she kept her life private don't you think?

Only because she was forced to. I don't see it as wonderful at all.

Straight people enjoy the unfettered ability to let the world know they love the person they love. THAT is wonderful. It's really too bad that many (most?) gays and lesbians have to live their lives in the shadows.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 15):
I criticize the people who say: "what a good gay she was because she kept it private"

I see what you did there.
 
desertjets
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 16):
Only because she was forced to. I don't see it as wonderful at all.

Straight people enjoy the unfettered ability to let the world know they love the person they love. THAT is wonderful. It's really too bad that many (most?) gays and lesbians have to live their lives in the shadows.

I think that is something that many straight people, probably myself included at one point, fail to remember. I can casually talk about what I did over the weekend. I can talk about the day trip my girlfriend and I took without any risk of losing my job. To think that talking about trivial stuff could get you terminated, dishonorably, from your job is hard to comprehend. But that was the reality that she faced.
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canoecarrier
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
For most of her career at NASA she had to - or she would have gotten fired...

Probably. Or, maybe just not hired. I don't think she came from a military background, wasn't she a physicist?

Quoting mt99 (Reply 15):

But how wonderful that she kept her life private don't you think? Who cares about anything else?

Maybe I don't have a say in this, because I'm not gay, but I think it's admirable that she made the decision to keep her private life private well after she left NASA and no one really would have cared. She did live in San Francisco, didn't she? Not everyone needs to be a poster child for whatever cause, personal decision or sexual preference you have. I'm sure to her inner circle it was well known she was gay and she chose to run her non-profit and stay out of the limelight when she left NASA.

She really was a remarkable person. She missed her chance for a 3rd shuttle ride because she was investigating the Challenger disaster.

Interestingly enough, I didn't know she was married before to Steven Hawley (another astronaut). If you believe wiki her relationship with her partner and Steve overlapped by a couple years.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
Just to be clear - you are saying that a person who is only so-so at what they do, get extra credit are considered more competent that they really are based purely on their sexual orientation.

Let limit this to actual quantifiable "competency" - and not wheater you think that Mellisa Etheridge is a good singer or not - as that would your preference and not quantifiable.

Nooo, that's not what I'm saying at all, and it's not what you said either. You didn't say "competency"; you said "success":

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

(emphasis added)

All you really have to do is listen to how some people talk about gays at a workplace.

And success is subjective, anyway, and frequently competence can be too.
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Mir
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 18):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
For most of her career at NASA she had to - or she would have gotten fired...

Probably. Or, maybe just not hired. I don't think she came from a military background, wasn't she a physicist?

She didn't come from a military background, but she worked in an environment with a lot of military people. I doubt the people making crew decisions at NASA at the time would have thought well of her sexuality had it been known, and she would have been as good as fired.

-Mir
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:19 pm

quote=MD-90,reply=4]What's even better is that her success as an astronaut wasn't defined by her sex or sexual orientation but by her competence.[/quote]

The great thing about NASA is that, by definition, it is run by smart people...
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
What is sad is that her partner of 27 years, who she shared her life with, now gets none of Sally Ride's survivor benefits, benefits that would have been paid to a surviving spouse had she been heterosexual.

  
That is the dumbest and most egregious aspect of this discussion.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
I doubt the people making crew decisions at NASA at the time would have thought well of her sexuality had it been known, and she would have been as good as fired.

I think this is a stretch and likely not true and unfair to the agency. Yes perhaps this was the case in the past and what she grew up learning, but for the time that she was with her partner it wasn't an issue. Of course with that said, I of course have no idea if she was "hiding" anything and what actual pressures she felt, but then no one here knows either.

Tugg
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Mir
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:49 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 22):
I think this is a stretch and likely not true and unfair to the agency.

If you read Mike Mullane's book, you'll get an idea of what the spirit in the astronaut corps was at the time Sally was there: a lot of ex-military alpha-dog, traditional, conservative, "I bleed testosterone" men running around. Homosexuality was not going to go over very well in that group.

Things have changed a lot since then (partially due to the inclusion of women in the corps), of course.

-Mir
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mt99
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 22):
I think this is a stretch and likely not true and unfair to the agency. Yes perhaps this was the case in the past and what she grew up learning, but for the time that she was with her partner it wasn't an issue.

I dont blame NASA for it. Their policies were in line with the times, which where unfortunate times for gays and lesbians.

What should make for blood boil, is that in 2012 there are 29 States in which gays and lesbians can be fired based on their sexual orientation.
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
What's even better is that her success as an astronaut wasn't defined by her sex or sexual orientation but by her competence.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

Would you elect Anderson Cooper as POTUS now that he's officially out? One trait or characteristic doesn't define a person's success, but sadly in today's world, if you possess something I find abnormal, you're simply not worthy.

I think it has been explained but MD-90 brings a good point: her sexual orientation (ie her private life) and her professional life were two worlds apart and never interfered with one another, though it's kind of a shame she could not publicly admit who she was. But as long as she was happy in her life, that's good enough for plenty of people.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 9):
Gay people absolutely do not belong in space. It's just not natural.

  

Quoting mt99 (Reply 24):
What should make for blood boil, is that in 2012 there are 29 States in which gays and lesbians can be fired based on their sexual orientation.

I can see a next Republican administration elevating that rule to all federal agencies. For a country called "the land of the free", there is still much persecution and oppression for certain communities.
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RussianJet
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
What was her A.net name then??

My first thought too......

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 3):
I am talking gay, one of us gays.

......which wasn't at all obvious from the title of the thread.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

Sure that wasn't the intentional implication, but to be honest I am pretty amazed that people are still surprised to see gay people doing fine. I totally understand that not necessarily all is rosy for gays even in 'civilised' countries, but it just all still seems pretty normal to me.
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MD-90
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting mt99 (Reply 5):
I am not sure what you mean by this. Is there a reason to believe that peoples success is defined by sexual orientation?

She didn't get her (extremely competitive) position as an astronaut because NASA decided it was time for a woman astronaut. She also didn't get it because NASA decided it was time for a gay astronaut (if they'd even known about it). Nor because NASA wanted to push the age boundary down and make her the youngest astronaut (with apologies to cosmonaut Gherman Titov) ever.

She got it because of her already impressive track record...which is what is really important.
 
mt99
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 27):
She got it because of her already impressive track record...which is what is really important.

Agree!

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 27):
She didn't get her (extremely competitive) position as an astronaut because NASA decided it was time for a woman astronaut. She also didn't get it because NASA decided it was time for a gay astronaut (if they'd even known about it). Nor because NASA wanted to push the age boundary down and make her the youngest astronaut (with apologies to cosmonaut Gherman Titov) ever.

So - who as gotten promoted, sent to space, given more money, otherwise unfairly rewarded because he or she was gay?
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fridgmus
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:07 pm

Why all the fuss over her sexual orientation? I really couldn't care less!

I have always looked up to all our Astronauts and Sally Ride is no exception. A beautiful woman both inside and outside. We were lucky to have such a wonderful human being in our midst and up in space. She was a role model to ALL OF US!

So Rest in Peace Sally and try and get Gus and Deke to behave and not trash the place and we'll see you on the other side.

F
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Max Q
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 3):

I am talking gay, one of us gays.

Er, be gay, whatever, don't assume that you can include anyone else in 'Us' !!!!!!
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RE: Sally Ride Was One Of Us!

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 3):
I am talking gay, one of us gays.

Sorry, but assuming "us" means gay is as wrong as assuming "us" means straight...
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